Dressage with vs. without stirrups..

[TB_eventer]

Over the past couple of weeks I've been doing my dressage without stirrups, and I've found that I like to sit my horse's gaits (trot especially, in this regard) without stirrups more than with stirrups - like the stirrup irons are making it harder somehow. I feel much more connected and relaxed without them...

so, is this correct? Would I be allowed to do this in competition?

It certainly can't be hurting me, right? I mean... it's keeping me from posting when I get too tired :winkgrin:

Anyway, I'm really interested to know these things. Thanks in advance :)

[nlk]

Riding with out stirrups is one of the best things you can do for your riding. You are using your muscles more and strengthening your legs while not depending on your stirrups. which is why the sitting trot without stirrups is easier right now you have no stirrups to depend and brace on, which is what it sounds like your doing even if you don't feel it. However I don't know that showing that way is legal or not I would go into the USDF rule book, and if you don't find your answer e-mail the organization to ask.

I am wondering what level you are training and planning on showing at. I didn't think a sitting trot was required till second level or higher, and then only minimally. (as far as showing goes.) I have only trained and never shown dressage so take a look at the test that you can down load on line and you will get a better idea of what you need at what level of test. But again riding with out stirrups will only make you stronger and a better rider if you are still holding your position.

good luck!

[XenophonKnows]

You must start sitting at 1st level, not 2nd.

Sitting without stirrups is probably easier because you are probably pushing into the stirrups when you have them. You're feet should rest, not press. You should seek to develop enough control that you do not press into the stirrups unconsciously. In other words, you must develop control over your body. Take you're stirrups back and see if you can be mindful of how much force you apply to the stirrups, and when. Being aware of what you are doing is the first step towards changing what you are doing. Get Mary Wanless' "Ride With Your Mind:Rider Essentials." Her newest book, "Clinic" is also really good.

No, you cannot ride without your stirrups without a special medical dispensation. And they are not that easy to get.

[yellowbritches]

The boss often says that everyone goes through a phase (or a cycle, on my part) where they feel they can sit like a million bucks minus stirrups but find it nearly impossible with. However, you can't ride sans stirrups in competition. What level are you riding?

Keep doing the no stirrups work, but try and pick your stirrups back up and try and keep your seat the same. Go in small bits...even if it is just ten good steps with, and the rest without, just keep working on it. Also, you may want to try and drop your stirrups a hole or two or even three. Often times we get our legs long and correct without the stirrups, and then hike them back up when we pick the stirrups back up. Lower them some, and see if it is easier to sit with them, then.

[TB_eventer]

Thanks Xenophon! I sort of thought it was something like that, but wow I'm concentrating on so much right now maybe I'll wait a few rides to add another :)

I don't really have any money right now to show, and when I do it's just low level stuff - mostly eventing tests through training level. I'm just trying to strengthen my riding right now, and make my seat more solid :D

A few weeks ago I got a dressage lesson that was AWESOME, and also brutal. It involves lots of sitting, hence the questions.

[TB_eventer]

so this means that when I take up my stirrups I need to adjust them to the correct length (which is the length at which my feet can comfortably rest, not brace, correct? The logic makes sense to me, I'm just double checking :yes:

[TB_eventer]

Keep doing the no stirrups work, but try and pick your stirrups back up and try and keep your seat the same. Go in small bits...even if it is just ten good steps with, and the rest without, just keep working on it. Also, you may want to try and drop your stirrups a hole or two or even three. Often times we get our legs long and correct without the stirrups, and then hike them back up when we pick the stirrups back up. Lower them some, and see if it is easier to sit with them, then.

Thanks yb, I was writing my other response as you wrote this! It's also good to know that I can't compete without stirrups because I've gotten close to doing that a few times in the past (whoops :eek: ) I just feel like it allows me so much more freedom!

[springdaisy]

I'm afraid I can't tell you rules or reasons, but I am the same way! Sitting trots are so much easier without stirrups...even without a saddle!

[lovehors86]

so this means that when I take up my stirrups I need to adjust them to the correct length (which is the length at which my feet can comfortably rest, not brace, correct? The logic makes sense to me, I'm just double checking :yes:

Yep that's exactly it, and like everyone else said you are probably putting too much pressure in your stirrups and in doing so it has a tendency to mess with how open and forgiving your hips are.

IMO the trick is to drop your stirrups so you're barely touching them for a ride or two. Then when you're ok with them being there you can put them up a hole or so every time you ride, eventually you'll get to a good length for your dressage work. Just think about adding more flex in your knee as the stirrups come up.

Another good method for regaining how much pressure is in your stirrup is to pull your knee off the saddle so it's turned out and you can see air between it and the saddle, can't brace against a stirrup in that position and it will open the pelvis angle even more.

[allswift]

Try riding with just one stirrup. See if you can duplicate the feeling you have on the no stirrup side on the side that you kept your stirrup. Also great to make sure you're not relying on your stirrups to post, etc. Do both sides equally.

Good luck!

[CapitolDesign]

For dressage length stirrups, your irons should be about 1 inch above your heel when your feet are held parallel to the ground.

What saddle are you working in?

The reason you find it easier to sit the trot without stirrups is because you are pushing off the stirrups/bracing the rest of your leg so you are being pushed up against the stirrup instead of allowing your leg to softly drop from your hip and rest in the stirrup (as mentioned by previous post) AND/OR your center of gravity has dropped when you don't have stirrups because your legs are actually longer... do you keep your knees slightly bent and your toes up/in? Remember to ride as thought you have stirrups, even when you don't.

I suggest warming up with stirrups, take them away, bring them back, take them away.... use the repeated change in your ride to help you feel the difference and practice recreating the without stirrups "loose and heavy" feeling of your legs with stirrups.

[Flying Hippotamus]

For dressage length stirrups, your irons should be about 1 inch above your heel when your feet are held parallel to the ground.

I was wondering what this rule of thumb was. what do you mean by heel though? Heel of boot or where your heel is inside the boot.

[PnkPanthr]

i usally try to ride without stirrups as much as i can. And in return it helps with the sitting troy with stirrups. It is super hard for me to sit with my horse(damn athletic animal! sheesh, doesnt he understand how hard he makes it:lol:)because he is so springy, but one thing that i found that helped me, is as you are trotting(with stirrups) as you sit, try to visualize one hind leg, and try to follow it. Picture its movements in your head and feel it, and follow it with your seat. hope this helps!

[LLDM]

Over the past couple of weeks I've been doing my dressage without stirrups, and I've found that I like to sit my horse's gaits (trot especially, in this regard) without stirrups more than with stirrups - like the stirrup irons are making it harder somehow. I feel much more connected and relaxed without them...

so, is this correct? Would I be allowed to do this in competition?

It certainly can't be hurting me, right? I mean... it's keeping me from posting when I get too tired :winkgrin:

Anyway, I'm really interested to know these things. Thanks in advance :)

Um yeah, I went through this too. As it turns out, my problem was in my ankles - they were too tense. This wasn't so much a problem w/o stirrups. But once I became aware of this is was much easier to fix. Although for me my whole quest has been about rooting out all the places I carry tension in my body. I fix it one place and it pops up in another. But maybe that's helpful to you?

SCFarm

[Jealoushe]

I wish, I also wish I could go bareback on my pony (not my Tb Yikes!)
:cool:

[UMass Director]

I was wondering what this rule of thumb was. what do you mean by heel though? Heel of boot or where your heel is inside the boot.

These are rules of thumb. If you read most authors will agree that you measure from the ankle bone, not the heel but this doesn't really matter. The point to be made is the shape and length of leg of the rider as well.
EG. a rider with a thick theigh and short legs (long torso, short legs) will not be able to ride with stirrups so long as described above. The opposite will be true for the long lean leg, that person will find it easier.
Additionally the width and depth of the pelvis of the rider needs to be taken in consideration. Those petite and shallow tend to get locked in the hip and grip, those that are wider and thicker tend to bounce more readily.

The threads about the horses movement are also key. Don't just ride without stirrups but concentrate on how the horse is moving you and what you do in response to that movement.

Another rule of thumb is if you don't like to ride without stirrups you should, if you ride better without stirrups you shouldn't.

[Ajierene]

Riding without stirrups is easier for a lot of people because once those stirrups are on, you are putting your weight in your toes and tensing your legs, all the way up to your hip. You need to put your weight in your heel. Think about stretching the heel down - this will lengthen your leg and help relax those muscles. Technically, if you are good enough, you should be able to sit the trot with your stirrups at jumping length - or close to it. It is about ability to use your muscles while keeping them relaxed.

Something I have mastered with my legs/hips but (as my trainer constantly reminds me) I have yet to master with my arms/hands....

[GBTeventing]

A problem I have in the stirrups versus non-stirrups riding is actually a bit different. I sit the trot better without stirrups because I am drawing my leg up and this allows me to open my pelvis more and feel what my horse's hind legs are doing (it sounds good writing it but really you should be able to leave your legs long and have them muscle control in your thighs to keep from pushing you out of the saddle). When I pick my stirrups up I still try to draw up my leg and find that I bounce more because I'm trying to keep my stirrups which then makes me brace. Of course, then the big guy gets pissy that I'm rigid and hollows out his back, making him more bouncy which then makes me say "to hell with it" and start posting again.

I think I'm trying to say the same thing just a slightly different take on it. If anyone else has some helpful hints I'm all ears. I've got one mare that is actually easier to sit on than post but the other two actually have suspension and sitting trot is not one of my gifts :) I finally learned how to sit my bouncy mare's trot but she's got this insane natural rhythm that the gelding lacks so I'm having more trouble there. Although, yesterday we were able to do the entire Prelim test A in a nice sitting trot!! yay!!

Good luck! Is it legal to use Velcro??

[TB_eventer]

Thanks for the input, everyone! Some VERY useful stuff in here :) Well, at least it is for me.

Um yeah, I went through this too. As it turns out, my problem was in my ankles - they were too tense. This wasn't so much a problem w/o stirrups. But once I became aware of this is was much easier to fix. Although for me my whole quest has been about rooting out all the places I carry tension in my body. I fix it one place and it pops up in another. But maybe that's helpful to you?

SCFarm

LLDM - I've just begun to notice this same thing! Except that it's a problem with and without stirrups!!! So the past couple rides I've done without stirrups, trying to just relax my ankles and I'm doing pretty good. Once I get that settled, then I'll pick up my stirrups and start doing a bunch of these exercises and see what works best for me!

Thanks again!! Miranda and I are at least trotting (sitting, of course) harmoniously for entire rides now :D:D

[CapitolDesign]

To clarify about dressage-length stirrups:

With your foot parallel to the ground, I generally put my stirrup 1 inch above my actual heel.

Most important is that the bend in the back of your knee is as close to a 180 degree angle as possible. Your foot should be able to rest, with your foot parallel in the stirrup. Make sure that they aren't so short that you have heels forced 1.5 inches down and that you aren't reaching for the stirrup by standing on your toes.

Your stirrups must also be even. It does not matter if they feel even... they should be the exact same length when you take them off and compare them to each other when adjusted to your riding length.