Need to vent

[Quackslikeaduck]

Getting horse back from a free lease trial because people REFUSE to listen! Sensitive mare but will tolerate plumbers IF they don't hang on her mouth, don't use spurs and don't sit like a bag of shite! Think that is a easy find?? Apparently it is NOT. I feel so bad for this mare, she is always getting sandbagged with such poor riders. Please tell me there are still people out there that have learned to ride correctly and by correctly I mean riding from your inside leg to your outside hand, having a seat independent of your hands, having a nice tight lower leg that is not flailing all over, blah blah blah...I'm so frustrated with the apparent lack of EDUCATED riders. The poor mare does not need Rodney Jenkins but would be nice if someone had a good command of the BASICS! Ok, I'm done venting now.:mad::mad:

[CallMeGrace]

Hope you feel better!:winkgrin:

[Milocalwinnings]

One would assume they come out to try the mare once or twice before heading out for a free lease - did you not watch them ride? If I were leasing my horse I would want to be darn sure I knew the rider's capability and being able to get along w/ the horse before leasing.. I hope you feel better after venting but in this situation I think you can be partly to blame as well.

Ditto! My gelding is very rider-opinionated. I am by far not the best rider in the world... but he goes well for me. He does not go well for many others who I"ve tried. I was faced with the possibility of having to free lease him when I went to college (I shouldn't have to now unless I change my major) and if I did that, you can bet that I would have had the interested party out to the farm to ride him multiple times.

If you infact didn't watch them ride the horse, then I agree that you are partly, if not mostly, at fault. Riders often think that they are better than they really are (whether they are pushed into that thought by their trainers, or if they are just that way) and either don't realize or don't care that they are not the right rider for the horse. IMO, the owner is the one who needs to judge that and they should not leave it up to the rider or the riders trainer.



ETA- I"m not sure why galwaybay deleted her post, I thought it was dead on... but that's JMO.

[beeblebrox]

"Quackslikeaduck

Getting horse back from a free lease trial because people REFUSE to listen! Sensitive mare but will tolerate plumbers IF they don't hang on her mouth, don't use spurs and don't sit like a bag of shite! Think that is a easy find?? Apparently it is NOT. I feel so bad for this mare, she is always getting sandbagged with such poor riders. Please tell me there are still people out there that have learned to ride correctly and by correctly I mean riding from your inside leg to your outside hand, having a seat independent of your hands, having a nice tight lower leg that is not flailing all over, blah blah blah...I'm so frustrated with the apparent lack of EDUCATED riders. "

Sorry but trying and not succeeding in stifling a bit of a GIGGLE. There are tons and tons of HOT sensitive horses who do not tolerate mistakes, AND there are just as many wonderful even quelled mounts who people can enjoy riding and learning on who are NOT over sensitive and allow mistakes. Bitching about the riding talent out there because you leased you're horse to the wrong person is sad. Ride her yourself and then she will be perfect! Now for my rant, as a trainer I am sick of folks with sensitive horses wanting to sell or lease them and having owners have screaming mi mi's that there is no market or "DECENT" riders to pilot their princess ponies!

[meupatdoes]

People sometimes think it is shady to "prep" a horse before a trial.
By "prep" I mean, get on, ride it around, school what it needs to do for the trial. So WTC, make sure we are QUIET, jumpykins a few, make sure we are QUIET, and when we are satistied that horseykins is as QUIET as we know and love him to be, he goes back in his house and waits for the people.

Then the people show up.
Inevitably, they have confidently explained how they "retrain a lot of OTTBs" and "bring a lot of greenies along," and then they hop on your beginner-safe 9YO QH and the fun begins.
Immediately it becomes apparent that they ride like shit on a pile, as they perch upon the patiently-plugging-along steed like a terrified tweezer, clutch with the legs, cling with the hands, and when he stumbles slightly in the canter they commence hollering WHOA WHOA WHOA WHOOAAAAA!!!! around the short side until the darling horse comes to a bewildered halt.

And we continue to "prep" the horses before the buyers show up.
Because I don't believe ANYONE who wants to come see a horse and says they can do more than the most basic of all basic riding skills unless I see it for myself.

[Quackslikeaduck]

"Quackslikeaduck

Getting horse back from a free lease trial because people REFUSE to listen! Sensitive mare but will tolerate plumbers IF they don't hang on her mouth, don't use spurs and don't sit like a bag of shite! Think that is a easy find?? Apparently it is NOT. I feel so bad for this mare, she is always getting sandbagged with such poor riders. Please tell me there are still people out there that have learned to ride correctly and by correctly I mean riding from your inside leg to your outside hand, having a seat independent of your hands, having a nice tight lower leg that is not flailing all over, blah blah blah...I'm so frustrated with the apparent lack of EDUCATED riders. "

Sorry but trying and not succeeding in stifling a bit of a GIGGLE. There are tons and tons of HOT sensitive horses who do not tolerate mistakes, AND there are just as many wonderful even quelled mounts who people can enjoy riding and learning on who are NOT over sensitive and allow mistakes. Bitching about the riding talent out there because you leased you're horse to the wrong person is sad. Ride her yourself and then she will be perfect! Now for my rant, as a trainer I am sick of folks with sensitive horses wanting to sell or lease them and having owners have screaming mi mi's that there is no market or "DECENT" riders to pilot their princess ponies!

It was stated that the mare would not tolerate a plumber which I would hazard a guess you belong to that club:yes:....the mare went out on trial with the understanding that they did not need spurs and she was to be under the supervision of her trainer which turned out to not be the case. I dotted all my i's and crossed all my t's with this deal. I still stand by my opinionthat the level of riding out there SUCKS and that ANYONE can hang out a shingle and call themselves a instructor...it's very apparent!

[Addison]

OK I'll bite. What is a "plumber"?

[Jumphigh83]

A plumber is a bad rider..a really bad rider...IF quacks was a plumber then his/her horse would certainly have learned to tolerate same. Why do you think that there is such a love afaire with the Euro Warm blood? They didn't really have a sense of humor they are simply thick and less sensitive to the flopping and flailing of the bad amateur rider. Said bad amateur then thinks they can ride so they move on to the sensitive type and the holes in the program REALLY show up. I sympathize since I grew up with TBs and find the warm blood ride a bit of a ram and cram. Not all mind you but a lot of them are well.... pondering. When someone is generous enough to free lease you a horse you could at least be as honest in your assessment of your riding as the lessors is/was about the nature of the horse.

[Twomanydawgs]

FYI..people DID come out to try horse. Watched mare go with the rider who had been riding her and then the girl got on. I explained EVERYTHING about the mare...was told that they would be working with their trainer(who I checked out prior) and I also went to their place and gave the girl a lesson with the mare. I had to repeatedly tell the girl to let go of the mares face, get her heels down, etc. I told the woman I had serious doubts about the girls riding ability and she replied "Oh Becca can ride anything, she will work it out"...uh huh...things can't work out when you sit up there looking like a frog on a lily pad! My vent is basically about the lack of GOOD trainers and riders out there...not asking for Rodney Jenkins but certainly someone who can sit on something other than your local Kmart horse! This girl wants to show etc...good luck with that!

[rugbygirl]

It was stated that the mare would not tolerate a plumber which I would hazard a guess you belong to that club....

Wow. It's amazing you could make that determination from her post.

Usually an owner who is all "this horse needs this, this and this, then HE'S PERFECT" is actually being very well-trained by the horse. And the horse typically needs more training before they try to market it as "beginner-safe". Are you looking for a pro ride for the horse? You should probably be a bit more discerning in who you allow to take her on trial.

Anyway, just because it didn't work out with your horse doesn't automatically mean that everyone outside your personal sphere is a crap rider. Maybe you're just a crap trainer...you apparently couldn't tell that the rider was absolute crap when you took the deposit for the lease...

[MIKES MCS]

A plumber is a bad rider..a really bad rider...IF quacks was a plumber then his/her horse would certainly have learned to tolerate same. Why do you think that there is such a love afaire with the Euro Warm blood? They didn't really have a sense of humor they are simply thick and less sensitive to the flopping and flailing of the bad amateur rider. Said bad amateur then thinks they can ride so they move on to the sensitive type and the holes in the program REALLY show up. I sympathize since I grew up with TBs and find the warm blood ride a bit of a ram and cram. Not all mind you but a lot of them are well.... pondering. When someone is generous enough to free lease you a horse you could at least be as honest in your assessment of your riding as the lessors is/was about the nature of the horse.

"be as honest in your assessment of your riding " they have NO idea how to be honest in assessing their riding ability when they have been told for years how fabulous they ride by the trainers who bilk them out of $1,000's of dollars a year. DO you honestly think that these same trainers actually want to take the time and energy to TEACH riding when they can make more money NOT teaching. I cannot believe what some trainers think of as good riders , it is usually the ones with the most money to spend with them . Honestly I think most "trainers" lie so much about their students talent to them, they start to believe it themselves. SO here is my advice to trainers.. When you are telling your 4th year student who has been riding nothing but 16 year old made warmbloods and cleaning up with the ribbons that they are great riders , STOP , they are actually believing you , and it is going to get them into trouble if you keep it up .

[meupatdoes]

"be as honest in your assessment of your riding " they have NO idea how to be honest in assessing their riding ability when they have been told for years how fabulous they ride by the trainers who bilk them out of $1,000's of dollars a year. DO you honestly think that these same trainers actually want to take the time and energy to TEACH riding when they can make more money NOT teaching. I cannot believe what some trainers think of as good riders , it is usually the ones with the most money to spend with them . Honestly I think most "trainers" lie so much about their students talent to them, they start to believe it themselves. SO here is my advice to trainers.. When you are telling your 4th year student who has been riding nothing but 16 year old made warmbloods and cleaning up with the ribbons that they are great riders , STOP , they are actually believing you , and it is going to get them into trouble if you keep it up .


"be honest in assessing your riding"

If I had a dollar for every person who told me how they retrained off track race horses and worked with a lot of greenies who hopped up on my 9yo Quarter horse who IS beginner safe, rode like a terrified tweezer, and subsequently curled up in the fetal position and commenced hollering WHOA! WHOA!! WHOAAA!!! when he stumbled a little in the canter, I wouldn't need to sell horses any more. I could make enough off of just showing them to these fantabulous ottb riders.

It is a testament to the good nature of the horse that these people continue to survive.



EDIT:
Oh wait I forgot that I already posted to such effect.
I just get SO MANY of these people I can't keep it straight anymore.

[zahena]

I love taking my arrogant riders who think they know what they are doing and put them on my hot TB. My hot TB who is a thinker and likes to challenge people to see how much he can get away with. He's really not evil, he just plays one in lessons. Do they EVER learn alot. I put a girl on him this week and she asked how much leg to give. He'll let you know. If you give him too much, I'll pick you up somewhere near Oklahoma.

Sometimes you HAVE to put them on a tough horse so THEY can see their own holes in their riding. After their lesson is over it always invites a discussion about what they did wrong and how to fix it.

But yes, there are tons of trainers out there teaching kids to sit pretty and not ride well.

[Addison]

JUMPHIGH83 your remarks about warmbloods border on absurd. Such generalizations are impossible to substantiate.

TOOMANYDAWGS why drop the alter all of a sudden? Why on earth would you let them take your homebred horse for a free lease if you had serious doubts about the rider's ability and her trainer's poor ability to match the pair?

[Twomanydawgs]

I didn't have doubts about their trainer..the trainer was never called as I was told they were going to be...used an alter because the people that leased her post on here but have now decided I really don't care that they know what I think of the daughters riding abilities. I thought there was an outside chance of the girl being ok with mare IF she listened to what I told her about the mare as the mare had previously been ridden by a "plumber" who was under the supervision of a trainer. I agree 100% with the poster who said that riders get a over inflated opinion of their riding because of their trainer blowing sunshine up their arses so the money can keep rolling in. I bet some of these riders with PROPER instruction would surpass their "trainers". I know of several trainers who purposely discourage clients from bettering themselves ie:going to clinics, seminars etc because they know if the client starts learning the correct way of doing things than the jig is up for them!

[rugbygirl]

the trainer was never called as I was told they were going to be

So you were lazy and didn't bother to check up on the details.

I still don't see how your vent has anything to do with the situation you described; to me it just looks like you want the world to know that you're fabulous and you know it.

Sometimes trials don't end in a lease agreement. That's why we have trials. If your posting attitude comes out in your business dealings, I can see why they dropped your horse like a hot potato. It likely had nothing to do with the quality of the horse.

I feel so bad for this mare, she is always getting sandbagged with such poor riders.

Uh, stepping out on a limb, since you're her owner, isn't that sandbagging COMPLETELY due to your bad judgment and desire to make a quick buck off her?


You might attract higher quality riders if you packed up your attitude and ego...sounds a lot like you're getting beginner-newbs because anyone who's been around can't stand being told how much they suck!



ETA: I see now, all this ridiculous nonsense about alters...you just want the girl to know what you think of her after she turned down your horse. What a catty, petty thing to do.

[MIKES MCS]

I know of several trainers who purposely discourage clients from bettering themselves ie:going to clinics, seminars etc because they know if the client starts learning the correct way of doing things than the jig is up for them!

This is so true, all the way up to BNT's who FORBID their owners/ riders from being anywhere near a vet or blacksmith appointment on thier own horses including prepurchase exams, ( because it will confuse them).. We now live in a world where the internet offers 16,000 answers for the same questions with research to back it up.. Trianers, ever get tired of hearing your client say .. "I read on the internet " then start teaching. It really is your job to teach ya know

[meupatdoes]

I know of several trainers who purposely discourage clients from bettering themselves ie:going to clinics, seminars etc because they know if the client starts learning the correct way of doing things than the jig is up for them!

Or the ones who have their client buy a 5yo horse for $75,000 that is capable of clocking around the 3'6" fresh off the plane, and explain to the client that the horse is still "green" and it ends up doing the teeny weeny baby divisions in the locals for a year before making a brave foray into the Baby Greens at the rateds the next, etc etc etc.

Well, we like to bring the horses along slowly, I guess. Wouldn't want to push him too fast.

[ImTheOwner]

This is so true, all the way up to BNT's who FORBID their owners/ riders from being anywhere near a vet or blacksmith appointment on thier own horses including prepurchase exams, ( because it will confuse them)..

Wow, I can't believe how manipulative and underhanded that is. I mean, I CAN believe it, I just didn't know it got to such extremes - and at the BNT level at that. Well, this takes the cake for the day.

Or the ones who have their client buy a 5yo horse for $75,000 that is capable of clocking around the 3'6" fresh off the plane, and explain to the client that the horse is still "green" and it ends up doing the teeny weeny baby divisions in the locals for a year before making a brave foray into the Baby Greens at the rateds the next, etc etc etc.

Well, we like to bring the horses along slowly, I guess. Wouldn't want to push him too fast.

But I have seen this trick for sure!

[zahena]

I guess I'm confused on who you are mad at. Yourself? Because really your the only one to blame here. If you had any doubts about the riders ability to handle the horse you should've said "No". It's your horse, you have the right to tell someone no.

Obviously you have NOT told people no since you are concerned this horse keeps winding up in the same situation over and over again. Just because they are interested, you don't have to say yes.

Every lease I have ever done says we can pull the horse at any time for any reason. No horse of mine has ever left my stable without a reference check, site check and "suprise" visits. We even attended shows where my horse was to see how they competed together.

And I have, on more than one occasion, seen something I didn't like and terminated that contract and taken my horse back. Once, on the spot. My horse, my job to be sure he/she is taken care of.

And seriously people, if you are dumb enough to not attend your horses' vet check then maybe you shouldn't be purchasing one! Like I tell my students every day, life is all about the choices we make and living with the consquences.

[Twomanydawgs]

Free lease here people!!! Not looking to make a buck...it is just a waste of a horse standing in my field since I no longer can ride. It was my mistake letting my niece who was taught the "correct" way to ride to break this mare. I should have used the local plumbers so she would not have been so offended by bad riding. I have come across very few riders with a good command of the basics..here and in NY...and judging by alot of the responses there are alot of people in agreement with me.

[Ibex]

To be honest.... when I was leasing, the most critical owners were the worst riders themselves. The ones that were good knew that every rider has to start somewhere, and ensured that the lease requirements included working with a trainer.

Chances are unless you find a leasor who has a specific need (i.e. can't afford their own, out searching for one, don't have time for a full lease etc), they're going to be a novice rider.

[zahena]

All of our leases were free, but free doesn't mean that you can do whatever you please to the horse. And it doesn't absolve the owner of responsbility.

Trust me, lack of being able to ride is everywhere.

The girl probably learned quite alot about herself from your mare so she really doesn't need anyone to tell her she's an inadequate rider. I think she probably figured that out all on her own! Courtesy of your horse.

[findeight]

Ibex is right. Most of those looking for a free lease are doing so because they cannot afford a regular paid one or to go buy a horse.

NOT ALL but most are going to be challenged finding decent training and horses to learn on within a tight budget. Their riding may well reflect irregular or poorish training, if any.

Keep looking but be alot more skeptical of any claims regarding ability.

I think most of these people just don't know what they don't know and doubt they deliberately set out to put one over on you. They just don't know any better.

[rugbygirl]

I should have used the local plumbers so she would not have been so offended by bad riding.

:yes: Darn right, you should have had at least a few on her, if that's who you planned to have riding her down the road.

It still kind of gets to me that you were unable to assess this girl's skill level when she tried the horse...or that you did assess her level and let the horse out anyway.

And to the other posters, I agree completely that the people chasing down free leases are NOT typically going to be your superstar riders. Usually the really good riders have horses offered to them...or so I am led to believe. Maybe you should put a price on this horse that you feel reflects her level.

[trubandloki]

To me it sounds like the OP is pissed because she has a horse that is sensitive and she did not do enough leg work prior to putting her in a lease situation that is not working out in a manner she likes.

When you have a horse that takes a certain ride then it is your job to make sure your horse gets that ride. It is unfair to paint the entire riding community with a 'no one can ride worth a darn' brush.

[Twomanydawgs]

Omg this mare does not need Rodney Jenkins!!! My trainer was there when the people came to ride her and I asked her what she thought and she replied "if they listen to what we have told them, it should be ok"...they did not listen...ie: they used spurs and they did not keep her in program. They rode and jumped her for three days, let her sit for 2, and then got back on her and said she was naughty at the canter. Her naughty at the canter consists of wrangling her head...not bucking, WRANGLING her head!! THEY did not do what they said they would do AND what they were told best suited the mare. If they had the girl could probably have been fine with the mare. I just got off phone with trainer and her words were "what exactly was their problem with this mare"? She walk,trot,cantered and jumped some jumps without any drama. Go figure. I guess when you used to be a decent rider the bad riders really offend you as they do my horses and to the posters who are getting their panties in a wad about mine and others assessments of the state of riding nowadays, I think it is because I have struck a nerve. I did not say EVERYONE was a plumber but a good share of what I've been seeing at the shows etc certainly are.

[trubandloki]

Oh, I can promise you my panties are far from twisted.

I have never heard the term plumber before so I can not actually tell you if I am one.

I will freely admit that I am less than a competent rider and I have a very good horse who takes very good care of me. I am guessing that in your world that makes me a plumber. No nerve hit. I know my lack of abilities and do not claim to be otherwise.

You are the one who is getting upset.

And honestly, the more you say the less rational you sound. So the only people that can lease your mare now have to ride perfectly and are not allowed to have any outside riding commitments that take them more than one day away from the barn?

[Twomanydawgs]

Um Tru where did I say they had to ride perfectly??? I believe I said they just had to have a decent command of the basics:confused:...I have never passed this mare off as a beginners horse so I don't know what your point is. You need to go back and read/comprehend. Whatever...I stand by my opinion that there are too many incompetent trainers out there who are producing "plumbers".

[twohotponies]

I totally do not get the whole "plumber" thing. I mean, I understand that you mean bad riders but I have to ask why that word? I dont get the connection between the word and the definition you give it. Is this an east coast thing?

Anyway, too bad about the lease, but in the end there is no one to be mad at except yourself. Good luck next time.

[fordtraktor]

Apparently it hasn't made it all over the East Coast.

I hope it doesn't become common usage -- it is utterly ridiculous.

What is "WRANGLING"? Head-shaking?

[arabhorse2]

I totally do not get the whole "plumber" thing. I mean, I understand that you mean bad riders but I have to ask why that word? I dont get the connection between the word and the definition you give it. Is this an east coast thing?

I've lived on the east coast most of my life and I've never heard this term used for bad riders, so I have no clue where it originates or why a bad rider is a "plumber".

Unless they're riding with their hairy butt crack hanging out, I can't imagine how someone came up with this terminology. ;)

OP, if you want decent riders for your sensitive horses, then you're going to have to do more than watch them ride once. As someone else suggested, check up on them frequently.

I'm an adequate rider, but I've had my fill of "sensitive" horses. Most of 'em have been coddled and spoiled to the point they're more bratty than sensitive.

Plus, some horses take a dislike to being handed around, and may be an angel for one rider, but a fire breathing dragon for another.

It's not necessarily the fact that all your riders have been bad; it might be that your princess mare didn't like being away from familiar surroundings. It happens. I know, because I had one of those!

I didn't get the "wrangling" thing either. The closest I could come is maybe head tossing. Ayrabs do that.

BTW Twomany, just noticed your sig line. Why didn't you throw something about Gawd striking Mr. Obama dead in there somewhere, too? You've also forgotten to mention he's not white, and therefore unable to comprehend the office to which he's been elected. Ugh....

[Seen That]

Aw, we should go back to the bad old days where you shopped for your new horse at the track. There was a certain... Darwinian element to the process of re-schooling your new pony that tended to discourage over-assessment of one's abilities. :D

[Twomanydawgs]

Wow just WOW...some of you people are just well....WOW...don't get "wrangles" her head?? Mare has never been princessed or coddled...I have people who can attest to that...she is just an opiniated mare and prefers educated riders to plumbers...YES , I said plumbers.

[fordtraktor]

Sorry, your posts are the horsey equivalent of Ebonics to me. :D

[Beezer]

You want well-trained riders, you put them on a lot of different types of horses.

You want a well-trained horse, you put a lot of different types of riders on it.

Nuff said. You've failed your mare. A horse is only worthy of being a pro ride when it has enough talent for a pro.

The only "plumber" I know of worthy of being called hamfisted and useless is Joe, but he's had his 15 minutes.

[RockinHorse]

I have no idea if my horse would tolerate a plumber or not. Since it is so cold, I know my horse would love some heat lamps installed in his stall so I am pretty sure he would tolerate an electrian ;)

[SherwoodAcres]

I'm so frustrated with the apparent lack of EDUCATED riders. The poor mare does not need Rodney Jenkins but would be nice if someone had a good command of the BASICS!

ok, this is not a direct response to you, but I am soo sick of coaches that are not willing to educate their students. For years I was told by BNT to just buy that push button horse where even if you fall asleep and only ask something 45% correct the horse will do it. I've been at various barns and even when I was begging to learn, the attitude I received was "it's easier if we do it". Like it's some big family recipe they just can't share or else they'll be out of business! I think that's why there are a LOT of ignorant riders out there that think because they've been riding for years and placing (through no talent of their own) that they are good riders. I see a lot of these "accomplished" riders picking up greenies because you know, they have the talent and skill to train:rolleyes:, and it is just painful to watch.

[galwaybay]

Okay I'm confused are there 2 mares that have gone out on a free lease requiring the same type of rider only to find that both mares came back because lessee didn't listen even though mare(s) tolerate "plumbers" OR

is the OP both Quackslikeaduck and twomanydogs?

at any rate whether there were 2 situations or 1 I'm sorry but I think anyone who's leasing a horse out whether it be a free lease or otherwise, if the owner is concerned about the rider's ability - it is up to them to ensure the horse is ridden properly - that means finding the right person to lease the horse. And I'm sorry but I don't think I would lease a horse w/a qualification only under trainer's supervision - what does that mean ? I lease and can only ride in lessons? I'm not saying there should be any caveats to the lease, but just that as an owner if you are concerned then you must make it your business to find the right person to lease - do not blame this type of situation on all those pitiful plumbers out there

[indygirl2560]

The owner of the TB I've starting training said she let him go on a free lease to a "trainer" and he came back incredibly skinny, terrified of lunge whips, fighting when you try to put the bridle on and a whole list of other bad things which he didn't have before.
As far as educated riders go, I agree with whoever said educated riders ride lots of a different horses and vice versa. I do understand though about your horse needing a certain level of rider. One of the TB's I trained last year needed a person that can actually ride otherwise, he'll pull all sort of tricks out of his hat and dump you.
The pony I've been training though, is almost the opposite, as long as the person isn't demanding a show ring type of ride out of her, than she needs an actual rider or she'll just play "evade the bit" games. I put a 8yr old her to just w/t around and she could have cared less(and mind you the pony is only 8yrs too!).
For leasing, if your horse requires a certain level of rider, even if that is one step up from "plumber", you should have them ride the horse under your supervision at least twice, before agreeing to a lease, just to make sure they won't ruin/undo training on your horse and to make sure it's a match. Also, in your contract, add the ability for you to take your horse back at any time; after all, it is your horse! And if off-property leases have just caused trouble, do an in-barn lease so you can keep an eye on your horse and the leasee.

[brightwhitestockings]

everyone has to start somewhere- you guys shouldn't trash other riders so much. Just because someone is learning doesn't mean you should refer to them as a "plumber." you were once there too.

it's not easy to just jump on an unfamliar horse in front of unfamiliar people (including the owner) at an unfamiliar farm and ride perfectly. Don't be so critical.

As for your lease issue, you shouldn't have let the mare go with them! Maybe you should look into the way you're marketing the horse because of the lack of expierence in the responses you've been getting.

And just so you know, good riders want decent horses- if your mare isn't anything special then why would a talented rider be interested in her? i'm definitly not saying shes not nice or anything but many owners tend to think their horses are far more talented/beautiful/scopey/amazing than they really are.

[Beezer]

ok, this is not a direct response to you, but I am soo sick of coaches that are not willing to educate their students. For years I was told by BNT to just buy that push button horse where even if you fall asleep and only ask something 45% correct the horse will do it. I've been at various barns and even when I was begging to learn, the attitude I received was "it's easier if we do it". Like it's some big family recipe they just can't share or else they'll be out of business! I think that's why there are a LOT of ignorant riders out there that think because they've been riding for years and placing (through no talent of their own) that they are good riders. I see a lot of these "accomplished" riders picking up greenies because you know, they have the talent and skill to train:rolleyes:, and it is just painful to watch.

To borrow your phrase, this isn't aimed at you, but: I am sooooo sick of my fellow riders (and some of the other posters on this thread) who claim this, and yet continue to ride with coaches/trainers who treat them this way.

My coach does not offer full care at shows; she loses clients (kids and adults) every.single.show season because people want that. She does not offer tacking up or longeing services before lessons; people leave because they want that. She gives people the option of keeping their own vet and/or farrier when they move into the barn; guess what? It's just easier for the owner to let her schedule everything. She does not believe in coddling people and tells her riders the bad and the ugly along with the occasional good. Surprise! She loses clients regularly because she's just not warm and fuzzy enough.

So, frankly, I call bull$hit on the people who whine that "oooooh, no one teaches kids (or adults) how to ride and be real horse people these days!" because those trainers ARE out there, they just may not be the BNT going to two or three or four A shows a month or showing indoors or catering to people spend six figures on a horse.

Water finds its own level. Trainers would not run their barns and teach they way they if do the majority of customers out there didn't want it that way. Money talks.

[Quin]

Yes, it appears that quacks = toomany. She made the charming comment that she started the thread as an alter becaue the lessor she is complaining about (who I gather is a child????) reads COTH but she has dropped the alter and is now happy for the kid to know how bad the OP thinks the kid is. Nice.

If I can summarize:

1. the OP has repeatedly free-leased the mare to people that the OP feels cannot properly ride the mare.

2. the OP believes that this means that no one else can ride properly.

3. the OP believes this does not mean that the OP is at fault for not checking out the potential riders better before sending the mare out.

4. the OP believes this does not mean that the OP has a difficult mare.

5. the OP uses perfectly good english words to mean something that so far only the OP understands. A plumber is someone who comes to fix the pipes. A wrangler is someone who works on a ranch with horses. A plumber might be a good rider or might be a bad rider; they charge enough for house calls that they certainly ought to be able to afford nice horses. A wrangler might wrangle horses, or steers, but I've never heard of one wrangling a head.

[SherwoodAcres]

Beezer - I didn't want this turn into an issue about my history. Read through my post again, I said I have been at various barns. Meaning in the past I had to deal with trainers that listened to the money. I also said I was begging for help, not that I gave in to their way. So, it's ok when a client that is trusting your experience and paying to ride with you to blatantly refuse to help? Just because everyone else in the barn hands over the reins or pays to have their horse taken care of when it's off? Even the ones that weren't driven by the "you do it for me attitude" seemed unwilling to teach me. Maybe it was the area I was from, but it really was like they were guarding a family recipe and were afraid you may venture out on your own and take away future business. So, they had to keep you reliant on them.
I didn't think was relevant to my previous point. But, maybe I should've clarified, I have since found a coach that is amazing. She teaches, explains, and has the best attitude out of any of my PREVIOUS coaches. I am in no way a beginner, far from it, but I am also not as ignorant to say I know everything. You can always learn and it's the love of horses and my sport that makes ME want to experience and learn as much as I can.
It's a trial and error, you can't go to a barn and leave after a month of being there. I gave those trainers chances to prove they were worth their reputation and the money I was paying them to COACH me. When I realized it wasn't working, I found another barn.
You also say money talks, well, that's a very poor exuse for not educating their clients just because it's easier. Find an angle that will have the clients enjoying themselves and realizing the lasting benefits. True, you may lose some, but do you really want those people anyway? They're not soo much in it for the love of the sport or the animals but for the amount of ribbons they win. I was talking to one of my good friends who has several $$$ horses and has been quite succesful on the A circuit since she was 12 (we're now in our 20s). You know what she told me, she JUST learned how to ask for a lead change a couple weeks ago:eek::no: You're telling me her various GP coaches, and all the money she's spent excuses the fact that no one felt it necessary to teach this?

ETA - this may read a little b*tchy, that's why I hate the internet! You can't hear my tone, trust me I'm just discussing, not trying to be rude:)

[Gray Horse H/J]

I read the first post and was thinking "WTF does plumber mean?" Glad I'm not the only one who had no idea.

Honestly, if you think the mare keeps getting bad riders on her, well, quit letting the bad riders on her then. Or work with her more so she can learn to take a joke.

About the free lease = less than good riders...I agree that the "free" part probably attracts some - plumbers, is it? But I have to think, at the same time, that the way the economy is now, plenty of decent riders may jump at a free lease, too.

If the kid leasing the mare wasn't doing things as agreed on, like using spurs, then take the horse back (which I know you did) and be done with it. Move on.

[galwaybay]

Yes, it appears that quacks = toomany. She made the charming comment that she started the thread as an alter becaue the lessor she is complaining about (who I gather is a child????) reads COTH but she has dropped the alter and is now happy for the kid to know how bad the OP thinks the kid is. Nice.

If I can summarize:

1. the OP has repeatedly free-leased the mare to people that the OP feels cannot properly ride the mare.

2. the OP believes that this means that no one else can ride properly.

3. the OP believes this does not mean that the OP is at fault for not checking out the potential riders better before sending the mare out.

4. the OP believes this does not mean that the OP has a difficult mare.

5. the OP uses perfectly good english words to mean something that so far only the OP understands. A plumber is someone who comes to fix the pipes. A wrangler is someone who works on a ranch with horses. A plumber might be a good rider or might be a bad rider; they charge enough for house calls that they certainly ought to be able to afford nice horses. A wrangler might wrangle horses, or steers, but I've never heard of one wrangling a head.

Love it :lol::lol:

[Long Spot]

OP, perhaps you should just lease the horse out to people who will ride in your trainers barn in your trainers program if you are concerned about riding ability/education and program consistancy. That way your mare never has to learn to deal with anything different from what she's been exposed to. That said...

I still think you'll have many problems trying to find someone to stay in a lease with you. Your behavior here is appalling. Abandoning an alter on a post making desparaging comments about a minors riding abilities when YOU ok'd the match because you want them to see it? Mean, cruel, self-serving and a fine way of shirking your accountablility. But a good way to start lots of rumors about you, the horse, and your trainer. Right in your home town! Fun!

Give me a 1,000 plumbers over one person with an attitude like yours. I can make something out of a polite plumber who is willing to learn and try and sees a whole picture.

BTW, guys, I think when she says "WRANGLING" she meant "wringing". Sounds like mare was snaking her head and neck at the canter probably with a bit of a hump in her back.

[Twomanydawgs]

Exactly Grey...the mare was brought home and is no longer going to be offered out for lease...you can only knit and rip so many times before you can't fix it anymore. The horse was not misrepresented. The mare is not that difficult. The people did not lease the mare thru this board. My whole point is the general lack of decent riders and I'm not the only one who thinks this. Guess I've been around much longer than alot of the posters on here and from now on I will refrain from using words that you do not/cannot understand. I've never had to explain what I meant when I've said a horse wrangles its head or that person is a plumber (in reference to riding) but than again I'm used to dealing with real horsemen. Enough said.

[maddyh]

TwoManyDogs, sounds like you need to check the mirror. Find a solution (do a better job of vetting your potential lessees) instead of ranting about how everyone else is a rotten rider.

[maddyh]

P.S. I think I'd rather be a rotten rider than a rotten person

[Long Spot]

Anyone who uses the word "plumber" is an excellent horseperson?

Well shit....

PLUMBER
PLUMBER
PLUMBER
PLUMBER
PLUMBER
PLUMBER

Whew! Now that all that hard work is over, I'd like my USET team coat to be a little long in the sleeves, so it doesn't pinch.

People interested in sponsoring me and my spectacular abilities (see above for refrence and proof of ability) can pm me.

[Beezer]

I never thought that I would say this but ... this dawg just doesn't hunt. :no:

Or maybe it does but its nose is just really, really bad.

[fargaloo]

In my experience, people who are really good at something don't feel the need to point out how lousy everyone else is.

[TheJenners]

Quin, love the reply :lol:

This person has her own terminology and apparently loves to name drop (Rodney Jenkins...). All in a bid for attention that blew up, and now she's mad. She can't ride, she has a hot mare who must be ridden every day or else it, in a word, doesn't keep a quiet headset. She doesn't care if she smashes someone online who attempted to lease the mare but didn't keep up with some sort of stipulations, whether any contract was made up we don't know.

Meh :rolleyes:

[beeblebrox]

Well apparently I am a "plumber" as the OP has called me.. Holy Cow who knew

Lady or alter or OP or whoever you are posting as now MY POINT is there are thousands of horses out there the way you describe you're mare. AND just as many owners who mysteriously can not sell, lease or RIDE them and this is EVERYONE else's fault but their own because other riders are "plumbers" who can not ride their way out of paper bags.

COME ON REALLY. Ultimately people who want 100% control of their horses do not lease them, they do not blame other riders and they do not lash out at other posters with MADE up words.

I do in reality get you're type calling or stopping by my barn looking to sell, dump, lease hot, ill-trained horses who they themselves do not desire to ride for a myriad of excuses and trust me there are always some good horror sob stories these people bring with them about some other trainer or rider f%$^ing up said Cat on a hot tin roof horse. BUT currently (and thankfully in this economy) I have a full barn of "plumbers" who like sane, quiet, trainable horses who allow my "plumbers" to make mistakes. If that makes me head of the "plumbers" I guess I will have to take this as a compliment. For me a like a little spice but can relate and understand many in my barn WHO CHOOSE to like the more civil side of life. ;-)

[Long Spot]

I'm a plumber
You're a plumber
He's a plumber
She's a plumber
Wouldn't ya like to be a plumber too?

Definately time for bed.

[beeblebrox]

"Twomanydawgs
My whole point is the general lack of decent riders and I'm not the only one who thinks this"

YOU ARE 100% correct, YOU AND YOU'RE ALTER think that way, the first thing that has made sense in a senseless rant where you directed you're own guilt on someone else!

Love this board, love it!

[indyblue]

OP.This is important.If your a plumbers wife does it mean you ride like shite?
What about if you actually ride a plumber? Im so confused...............................
God I wish I knew this earlier as I would of chosen one of the other trades available.

[trubandloki]

Terrific post Quin!!!!

I design plumbing systems (on paper) for a living, so I am not quite a plumber, does that mean I can not be a "plumber"?


And for the record OP (which ever name you are choosing to use today), I have been around the block more times than I care to admit too. I am not quite older than dirt yet, but I am approaching. I had never heard the term plumber associated with some persons riding ability in all that time. And being that I am guessing my riding ability, or lack there of, would put me in that category in your eyes I am sure I would have heard it if it was something that was said by the all knowing horse type of old.

[arktos19]

I design plumbing systems (on paper) for a living, so I am not quite a plumber, does that mean I can not be a "plumber"?


Depends, Trub - can you wrangle while you're plumbing? :D I guess only 2MD and JH are part of the exclusive group of elite horsepeople who understand that speshul language of head wrangling and plumbers! :lol:

Hey, you're in my part of the world - do you work for a mechanical contractor or a consultant? I work in engineering in-house for one of the large regional commercial concerns, so I have contacts at most of the local establishments.... ;)

[trubandloki]

Depends, Trub - can you wrangle while you're plumbing? :D I guess only 2MD and JH are part of the exclusive group of elite horsepeople who understand that speshul language of head wrangling and plumbers! :lol:

Hey, you're in my part of the world - do you work for a mechanical contractor or a consultant? I work in engineering in-house for one of the large regional commercial concerns, so I have contacts at most of the local establishments.... ;)

Darn, I want to be speshul too! Darn darn darn, not fair.


Well golly - we might know each other in real life too.

[onelanerode]

I am LMAO here. :lol:

What a great thread to start my Friday morning!

Quin, your post was spot on. :winkgrin:

[arabhorse2]

My whole point is the general lack of decent riders and I'm not the only one who thinks this. Guess I've been around much longer than alot of the posters on here and from now on I will refrain from using words that you do not/cannot understand. I've never had to explain what I meant when I've said a horse wrangles its head or that person is a plumber (in reference to riding) but than again I'm used to dealing with real horsemen. Enough said.

I guess I ain't no "real" horseperson then. Shame on me for "plumbing" my horses for the last 32 years instead of really riding! :lol:

I've never heard of a horse that "wrangles" its head. Care to 'splain to the unwashed masses just what the hell that means? Since of course, you're the only one who knows. Oh, and presumably George Morris.

I'm glad that someone who doesn't ride can perfectly assess the riding skills of others, just by virtue of their interwebz postings. Of course, for some reason you seem unable to do the same when someone is right in front of you, riding your horse.

[Paint Hunter/Jumper]

Wow... OP, how would you feel if the person who had leased your horse, the person you have been talking $hit about, came on this bb and sees what you have been saying. Is that going to boost her confidence to learn more and become a better rider, or is it going to lead her to be nervous everytime she rides because she's afraid that she's "not up to people's standards" with her riding. I just think that you need to think before you say things on a public bb, and think about who is going to be affected by it. Nobody appreciates your attitude.

And, btw, why do you keep changing your damn name! It makes this thread so confusing!

[zahena]

If my breeches keep falling down and exposing my butt crack, does that make me a plumber? I worked in waste water treatment, not a plumber, but close?

Seriously, anyone feel like we're just feeding a troll here? A multiple personality troll.

And it's her own foot that's been shot, people in her area will soon hear about this and even if they considered leasing her horse, they will run for the hills now. She's just making herself look bitter.

[Paint Hunter/Jumper]

If my breeches keep falling down and exposing my butt crack, does that make me a plumber? I worked in waste water treatment, not a plumber, but close?

Seriously, anyone feel like we're just feeding a troll here? A multiple personality troll.

And it's her own foot that's been shot, people in her area will soon hear about this and even if they considered leasing her horse, they will run for the hills now. She's just making herself look bitter.


Yes I think she is a troll, too! With all the different names... who knows?

[Twomanydawgs]

Ah struck another nerve implying that some of you are not horsemen:yes:...mission accomplished!!! Wow didn't know there were soooooooo many kmart horse jocks on this BB...

wran·gle (rnggl)
v. wran·gled, wran·gling, wran·gles
v.intr.
To quarrel noisily or angrily; bicker. See Synonyms at argue.
v.tr.
1. To win or obtain by argument.

There ya go...she wrangles her head(definitiion above) when she is fresh. In more simple terms for those that obvioulsy need it ,the mare protests or lets her opinion be known when she is fresh...unbelievable how clueless some of you are..:no:
Damn right I'm upset that these people did not do what they agreed to do before taking the horse hence why I dont give a rats ass if they see this. After multi back injuries and surgeries caused by having to ride and fix horses ruined by "PLUMBERS'' I no longer can ride but it's like riding a bike..you never forget how. Done arguing with a bunch of pommel grinding yentas who can barely ride their pondering dumbbloods. Pretty funny how alot of you are taking this so personally...strikes a little too close to home I think!

[eclipse]

Is there anybody else who would like to see a video of Dawg's perfect, non-plumbing riding? For somebody who is supposidly the only "perfect rider" here, you'd think she'd be posting videos & pics of herself everywhere!! :lol:


http://www.findaplumber.com/

Provided for all your plumbing enjoyment........you know, just in case you need one!! :lol:

Edited to add:
So according to your nasty little diatribes, your mare is a beotch.........just like her "mother"!!

[Carolinadreamin']

Oh! She shakes her head when fresh! Thanks for educating us. Speaking of education, it's spelled "obviously", not "obvioulsy", unless that's another term you're introducing to us unwashed masses.

[Trixie]

1. the OP has repeatedly free-leased the mare to people that the OP feels cannot properly ride the mare.

2. the OP believes that this means that no one else can ride properly.

3. the OP believes this does not mean that the OP is at fault for not checking out the potential riders better before sending the mare out.

4. the OP believes this does not mean that the OP has a difficult mare.

5. the OP uses perfectly good english words to mean something that so far only the OP understands. A plumber is someone who comes to fix the pipes. A wrangler is someone who works on a ranch with horses. A plumber might be a good rider or might be a bad rider; they charge enough for house calls that they certainly ought to be able to afford nice horses. A wrangler might wrangle horses, or steers, but I've never heard of one wrangling a head.

This seems to summarize this pretty well. Erm, count me in as another who has never heard "plumber" or "wrangles his head." From Virginia, been around the "A" circuit a fair bit. Must not know ANY real horsemen here in horse country. :lol:

[Trixie]

wran·gle (rnggl)
v. wran·gled, wran·gling, wran·gles
v.intr.
To quarrel noisily or angrily; bicker. See Synonyms at argue.
v.tr.
1. To win or obtain by argument.

There ya go...she wrangles her head(definitiion above) when she is fresh. In more simple terms for those that obvioulsy need it ,the mare protests or lets her opinion be known when she is fresh...unbelievable how clueless some of you are..

I'm afraid you've got poor language skills. Obviously, no one else knows what the heck you're talking about.

You're trying to say she quarrels noisily and bickers her head?

[arabhorse2]

Done arguing with a bunch of pommel grinding yentas who can barely ride their pondering dumbbloods.


Don't ride Warmbloods, snookums. So there you go, ASSuming something again! :lol:

You're a charmer, you are. Just as your sig line indicates.

[blton9th]

Why bless your heart twomanydawgs-quackslikeaduck-smellslikeshite ;)

[loshad]

Don't ride WBs, either. It's TBs all the way, baby! I'd like to think I'm at least a Target quality rider, myself.

I've also never heard of riding like a plumber. I guess I'm not a "real horseperson." Sad blue faces all around.

[trubandloki]

Done arguing with a bunch of pommel grinding yentas who can barely ride their pondering dumbbloods.

Coooool! You are going away! Happy times!


Me no have one of them there big bucks warm blood equine things though. Sorry to not hold up my end of insult.

[zahena]

Don't ride WBs, either. It's TBs all the way, baby! I'd like to think I'm at least a Target quality rider, myself.

I've also never heard of riding like a plumber. I guess I'm not a "real horseperson." Sad blue faces all around.

Okay, I have read this thread and it just generally amused me until this. I am laughing so hard my face is blue!!! Target quality!!! I guess I must be Wal-Mart quality then!!!!

RFLMAO!!!

[arabhorse2]

I'd like to think I'm at least a Target quality rider, myself.

I prefer the little mailman's truck at Wally World, myself. :D

I was pretty good at riding one of these when I was a kid, so I guess I have more experience than I realized! Yay for me! :yes:

http://www.brandsonsale.com/tg-002119.html

Kinda looks like my new spotted boy, too. ;)

[Carolinadreamin']

I'm "wrangling" my head at all this (hope I used that fun and new term right 'cause I'd hate to be labeled a plumber for incorrect word usage).

[arktos19]

TB for me three, Sweetpea!!!

What a riot!

:lol::lol::lol:

[MistyBlue]

v. wran·gled, wran·gling, wran·gles
v.intr.
To quarrel noisily or angrily; bicker. See Synonyms at argue.

They flip their heads, shake their heads, evade the bit, etc. I've ridden many a horse, all types of breeds. Many opinionated because those are my favorite types. Never had a single one argue noisily with me. I must be a plumber despite my well-hidden always covered butt crack. I even have 2 AQHAs and have never had either "wrangle" anything. :confused:

Also, had to scroll up and check which forum I was reading again...and lo and behold it IS the hunter/jumper forum. Not a whole lot of "pommel grinders" on here considering both hunters and jumpers don't require a whole lot of sitting trot. Or sitting deep in the tack at all. Both disciplines tend to stay above the tack, at least if they're doing it correctly.

[Ghazzu]

Two Dawgs, sugar, you might want to reflect on the standard advice given to those who are stuck down a deep hole (and given the plumbing references here, who knows, it might be a septic tank).

Stop digging.
Step away from the shovel.

[Come Shine]

Lol! Perhaps the identity of the CCTL has come to light. :)

[ExJumper]

Also, had to scroll up and check which forum I was reading again...and lo and behold it IS the hunter/jumper forum. Not a whole lot of "pommel grinders" on here considering both hunters and jumpers don't require a whole lot of sitting trot. Or sitting deep in the tack at all. Both disciplines tend to stay above the tack, at least if they're doing it correctly.

Misty, I believe that what we do is more properly referred to as pommel "humping," not pommel "grinding."

[Spud&Saf]

Twomany-

Please educate a plumber (and the masses) and post video of proper riding. As you are an expert, please feel free to post any of the videos you may have of you winning at Devon on said free lease or other horse to illustrate your point.

Dont worry, I won't expect such video to include a desmonsration of "wrangling", as I am sure no horse would attempt such behaviour with an esteemed rider such as yourself on board.

I look forward to your enlightening tutorial.

Yours in sport,

S&S

[MistyBlue]

Misty, I believe that what we do is more properly referred to as pommel "humping," not pommel "grinding."

Ahhh, my apologies then ExJumper...I do tend to get my pommel-riding terms incorrect. :winkgrin:

[cloudyandcallie]

A plumber is a bad rider..a really bad rider...IF quacks was a plumber then his/her horse would certainly have learned to tolerate same. Why do you think that there is such a love afaire with the Euro Warm blood? They didn't really have a sense of humor they are simply thick and less sensitive to the flopping and flailing of the bad amateur rider. Said bad amateur then thinks they can ride so they move on to the sensitive type and the holes in the program REALLY show up. I sympathize since I grew up with TBs and find the warm blood ride a bit of a ram and cram. Not all mind you but a lot of them are well.... pondering. When someone is generous enough to free lease you a horse you could at least be as honest in your assessment of your riding as the lessors is/was about the nature of the horse.

Hey don't paint all warmbloods with that brush! My 50% TB WB is almost as hot as my ottb mare was all her life. But he doesn't have a sense of humor, and I thought that was because he is German.:lol:

added: My old TB mare was very "sensitive", meaning hot and unforgiving, and would not tolerate any fools.

At least I'm learning new meanings for words here. And btw Obama is doing a great job on his apptments.

[Jumphigh83]

oofah...remind me to never vent here.....what a train wreck...Hi Bedford! Je suis fatigue....abiento!:winkgrin:

[JulieD]

Je suis is Bedford from Diva???

[NYY345]

I only read the first 2 pages, but I don't understand how this turned into everyone pointing fingers and saying, "no, YOU are the crappy rider." Why the hatred?

[arktos19]

Oh, no hatin' - just suggesting that OP wasn't as diligent as she may have been.... :cool:

Hey, we need some training here - where's barka these days?

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

I meandered over here on Quin's suggestion...munching popcorn...hope you guys don't mind if I set a spell.

See, over on the dressage board we don't call them plumbers - simply too plebian. They're called "metal piping conduit technicians." They are called to come out when the hot water in the personal showers in your barn isn't coming out hot enough, so you can't ride.

[flea]

Did anyone ever explain why poor riders are called plumbers? Maybe I missed it. I found it strange when the OP said real horsepeople would know about plumbers and wrangling heads. Now I pictured what the OP meant and got the main idea but had never heard the terms. Then he/she starts insulting if you aren't familiar with the terms. Must be a term used in her area but not ours. But then I didn't know a term, I believe it was flash reined, when I was selling a horse once. The guy asked if he was flash reined and got all insulting and left like I was an idiot when I wasn't familiar with the term. Again, I pictured what he meant but ...anyway didn't want him to buy the horse after that attitude so all was well.

[arktos19]

I meandered over here on Quin's suggestion...munching popcorn...hope you guys don't mind if I set a spell.

See, over on the dressage board we don't call them plumbers - simply too plebian. They're called "metal piping conduit technicians." They are called to come out when the hot water in the personal showers in your barn isn't coming out hot enough, so you can't ride.

Aw DGRH - It's getting late but I could sure go for a Margarita to go with that popcorn!

[Sithly]

Did anyone ever explain why poor riders are called plumbers? Maybe I missed it.

I must have missed it, too. I just assumed that the OP was a plumber, since she's showing so much of her a$$.

[bf1]

And I am curious - for someone so critical of riders, can I just say - why can't people spell anymore. Darn teachers. Should have taught her how to spell "dog" correctly. Why aren't there any more decent spellers out there. I mean, we pay them enough, put kids through 12 years of school and we end up with non-spellers. No wonder she can't lease out the mare. Maybe she would have learned the definition of plumber too.

[cloudyandcallie]

And I am curious - for someone so critical of riders, can I just say - why can't people spell anymore. Darn teachers. Should have taught her how to spell "dog" correctly.
I've got this one. "Dawg" is colloquial Georgian for someone who graduated from or attends the Univ. of Georgia. And the cheer is "Go you hairy Dawgs!":lol:

Why aren't there any more decent spellers out there. I mean, we pay them enough, put kids through 12 years of school and we end up with non-spellers. No wonder she can't lease out the mare.
Maybe this is one of those threads about "my horse is so difficult that only I am a good enough rider to handle her?":confused:

Maybe she would have learned the definition of plumber too.
Hmmmmmm, maybe one of the Watergate crowd?:confused:

[bf1]

Oh, I get it. Hairy (as in plumber) Dawgs. Thanks - now I would like to know more about the University of Georgia - it doesn't paint a very pretty picture (hairy dawgs). And who taught them how to spell......

I still think the OP should take a cold shower. She has a sensitive horse, she had the responsibility to vet the rider. Thoroughly, not just once.

[Jumphigh83]

Yeah YellowDOG you loser! How dare you try to GIVE a horse to someone who doesn't have one. You are the worst possible type of horsetrader. When you are GIVING horses away they have to be be PERFECT! Stop trying to pawn off your horse on the unsuspecting public. It is all YOUR fault for believing what people tell you! ASSUME they are LYING for GODS SAKE! If they say they will do "this and that" then just assume they are going to do "WHATEVER THEY WANT"! Boy are you a moron....maybe you should have BEEN a plumber..they make more money and they get WAAAAAYYY less aggravation! And when is the last time a plumber had to GIVE anything away? HA! And when you did ride you probably were BAD. So there. This about sums up this thread. Readers Digest version.:rolleyes::rolleyes::dead::dead: (is that you Yellowdawg?..though it was Quackie? But what do I know??)

[foursocks]

Maybe a plumber is someone who wrenches. How's that?

OP- your assertions about the skills or lack thereof every other person but yourself- both in the realm of riding and in politics (except Jumphigh9876, of course- a fellow sympathizer!) are silly. I am not sure what you expected to get in terms of responses on this board, but clearly people don't enjoy being berated by some random whinger on the interwebs.

By the way- I started riding when I was 8. 30 years later, having ridden both in the Midwest and the East, I have never heard those two terms. I figured out what both meant, because I have an imagination, but just because you make up a word and think it's a good one doesn't mean anyone else wants to decipher your meaning.

Finally, if you can't take the time to vet potential riders for your touchy mare then perhaps you should stop trying to foist her onto other people and just suck it up and pay her expenses yourself. Or, button your lips and realize that free leases are most often sought by lower-end riders who may not have much riding under their belts. It's not rocket science. Yes, Virginia, there are a lot of bad riders out there and bad trainers. Uh, welcome to the entire history of humans riding horses. As a horse owner it is your responsibility to keep them off your mare if she can't tolerate bad riding. It is not anyone else's responsibility to turn into a fabulous rider solely for your benefit.

[Twomanydawgs]

Wow a lot of you need a refresher course in reading and comprehension. If you took the time to read the beginning of this thread you would see that I did watch this girl ride this mare more than once. It was they that chose not to do as I told them to do with this mare (it was also written out for them). They like alot of you on here chose to think that they knew better and they were going to reinvent the wheel! Whatever..mare went to show today to school and went around like the good horse she is. The person riding her is no Rodney by any stretch and had no problem not wearing spurs and not hauling on her mouth and presto no problems were to be had. As for the plumber description..I first heard that term in relation to riding 30 yrs ago at Belmont when Bill Terrell used it in reference to a certain jockey. You did not have to be a rocket scientist to figure out what he meant by it...my how times have changed!

[Anselcat]

Maybe a plumber is someone who wrenches. How's that?

But if someone who wrenches rides a horse who wrangles, won't they cancel each other out and go perfectly?

[Haalter]

So I admit I haven't read this entire thread, but it made me think of a horse I had a free lease on that I returned to his owner. Personally, I (I'm a trainer) got along great with the horse and really enjoyed riding him, but my intention was to use him for a lesson horse or lease to a client, and that didn't work out. Here's why: the horse was a difficult, sensitive ride, but with a very good, quiet rider was a terrific 3' horse...but that was his limit. My problem was, anyone who was a competent enough rider to get a good ride from this horse would want a horse that could do more than 3'. It wasn't that my 3'6"+ riders weren't competent to ride him well, they just had no interest in a horse that topped out at 3'. I've run into this problem more than once - i.e. if one is a good enough rider to ride the horse well, they are a good enough rider to have a horse with more potential for moving up the levels. Could this be the case with your mare?

[Twomanydawgs]

No Haalter..the mare is NOT that sensitive...but does require a intermediate rider...beginners and/or riders that balance on their hands, have a heavy seat,and loose lower legs make her nervous. The girl that leased her seemed to be and would have been ok IF they had done as told ie: no spurs, regular work, and in a program with their trainer..none of which was done. The mare was perfectly fine today and yesterday at the show and jumped all the jumps, swapped her feet, etc. and that was with no riding or lunging till she wanted to drop either and it was cold and windy here. Just loaded her and went to show. I specifically told them about the spurs a number of times because the girl steps on her toe and pinches with her knees and I knew that would become a problem if she wore spurs.

[Addison]

TWOMANYDAWGS-----you are terribly rude.

What is the deal with Rodney??? Is he the only one out there who can ride (rode)?

[Twomanydawgs]

OMG...Rodney is being used as a metaphor. "Metaphor" look it up!:)

[dainty do]

Hi Twomanydawgs,

After reading your posts, I realize how much training I still need. It has always been my dream to be a top rider and there is so much I could learn from you. Can I come to your barn for a lesson? I just know we could have a great time together, and I would learn so much. Where are your located so I can find you? I could load up the trailer with my pony, Wildfire. My current trainer says that if I can ride him, I can ride anything. It may be too far a distance for him to travel though. Could I ride your grey mare instead? If you want to see my pony. He is shown on the link below. Sorry, he doesn’t come on until 1:07

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzQodAnU-Ys

I hope that you will agree that if I can ride him, your grey mare should be no problem. I am currently a good rider, but I want to focus on sharpening my skills. Let me know if you can help.
Thanks in advance

[findeight]

Didn't any of RJs manners, much less modesty, in public come with all the vast and superior riding talent and training ability he personally lavished upon OP ?