Rider with a bad back...

[KWNic]

I would love to know how any riders here deal with their riding and training if they have bad backs. I recently found out that I herniated all my discs from L1 - S1...I am just getting ready to resume riding (against Doctors orders, of course !!) after months and months of being ill, finally diagnosed with Rheumatoid Arthritis, and then the back diagnoses. We have finally stabilized my health and I am desperate to get back in the saddle with my boys but I know that my back is going to be an issue. How do you all handle it? Any advice here would be well appreciated !!:winkgrin:
Kelli

[Ambrey]

Oh, dear, I feel your pain, literally. Several years ago I ruptured L5/S1 pretty badly, and then last year I compression fractured L2. X-rays are... not pretty, I am fairly arthritic and lacking much in the way of disk all the way down.

And I also struggled with a chronic health problem before stabilizing. Getting back into horses was a huge health boost for me! Well, except for the falling off and breaking my back thing ;)

Slow and steady wins the race. That's all I can tell you. I can't expect to progress as fast as I'd like or do all of the things I'd like to be able to do. But riding has been very strengthening for my back and core.

The things I'd get someone else to do if possible at the beginning? Carrying your saddle (sounds weird, but it still remains the thing most likely to make me sore in a bad way). Picking hooves. Scooping poop. Carrying grain bags.

Make sure you have a trainer that allows you to listen to your body's cues and stop when it's done. You'll notice a difference after a while between "good sore" (all the right muscles hurt due to exertion, not strain) and "bad sore" (meaning the wrong muscles are being strained or you are aggravating the nerve problems).

Good luck!

[medical mike]

With several recent threads.
Searching them should give you the answers you need (and more).

REgards,
Medical mike
equestrian medical researcher
www.fitfocusedforward.us

[HCF]

I have a herniated L5/S1, degenerative disc disease, mild arthritis and a very bad SI joint (and I'm only 34!). I have been through months of PT and am currently getting by with anti-inflammatories and injections. I really don't have too much pain while actually in the saddle - its afterward, usually that night or the nxt day. Some days are better than others, but I couldn't live without my horse, so I muddle through. As others have said, its the little things that I have to be very careful of - bending over to pick hooves, carrying heavy things, shoveling, etc. I do a lot of core work, too, to strengthen my abs and support the back more. Good luck!

[viggo]

I hurt my back two years ago from a bad fall and a friend suggested getting a thinline pad. I bought one from LA Saddlery in CA, and have to say that it really has helped absorb a lot of the normal shock from my horses enormous trot, plus it helps my horse out too! He doesn't have to suffer with my fat ass bouncing either. They are way better than gel pads, or anything else I have ever tried. If you are going to get back on your horse, then I highly suggest getting one.

[slc2]

I no longer am convinced that the right choice with back problems is always to continue riding.

And after taking some driving lessons, I am no longer sure that switching to driving is the answer for all of those who can't continue to ride. Driving is actually demanding on a person's back too. One has to do a certain amount of moving the cart around before hitching, and carts weigh several hundred pounds or more. Riding in the cart involves a certain amount of jarring and bouncing, the springs have a limited effect, carrying and lifting harness, and reaching, bending to groom horses can stress the back.

For some people, it's just the more active, demanding sort of riding that makes them sore. A horse with very strong or jarring gaits may bother them, or if a horse bucks and they land hard on the saddle, they may feel it quite severely, but if the horse has smooth gaits and the person doesn't tense up their muscles, they may be fairly comfortable.

No horse is ever guaranteed to not buck, shy or bolt. In theory, even the quietest, most well trained horse can do things like that. And bucking, shying or bolting may cause pain in the person's back, or they may fall, an awkward, twisting motion on the back and an impact may cause terrible pain in a person with deteriorated discs.

That said, for some people, riding is the right choice. A reliable, smooth gaited horse, lots of back, stomach and hamstring exercises, a regular program of stretching and warming up, the occasional 'bad day' the person can tolerate and accept, it can work out.

But I also think that if it is just not working out, if the person really is miserable and can't tolerate it, it can be time to find a way to stay involved without riding, such as leasing your horses.

Sometimes it's just a matter of changing goals. Rather than aiming at demanding competitions, or riding the huge, giant gaited strong horse, more a family type horse may suit. It may not be a 'back' mover or a top notch dressage horse, but it might be much more practical for the person.

I've also seen people who are so limited, so afraid, so restricted, so tense, and so fearful all the time of getting hurt that they ride at a walk and slow jog in a tiny circle at one end of the ring, longe for hours before daring to get on, shake in their boots every moment at the stable, over bit their horse and practically strangle it with tight reins, punish their horse roughly every time it twitches its ears, and scold everyone around them constantly for making the slightest noise that might startle their horse, that people start to them urge them to give it up! :no: It's a really sad situation and often the person just won't let it go.

Despite what other people think when they see someone like this, the solution isn't always to quit. The person may sort it out and find a way to make it work, and they may become less fearful and tense as they learn to manage their condition better. Yes...a few people will struggle on for a long, long time in a very limited way, terrified and tense, and it may frustrate people around them.

Years ago I knew a lady who had spina bifida and struggled to ride. Her back was often stiff and her doctor didn't really want her to ride; if she fell on her back at a certain angle, it could have been a life threatening injury. She had limits as to how well she could ride, and getting on a young, peppy horse was very difficult for her. Not everyone agreed, but she wanted to continue, and did.

[Bogey2]

I am picky about the horses I ride now, I try not to sit on one that will jar my back or lean on the rein for long.
The biggest thing I did though was take yoga from my chiro. She taught me how to save my back with exercises, how to sit, walk stand...all that stuff that helps you use your back correctly. In the winter I use moist heat for 15 minutes before I ride along with some basic stretches.

[pintopiaffe]

Would love to hear how you arrange moist heat, Bogey2! It would be helpful for me...

OP, sounds like you already have the horse(s) you're going to be riding. I've found gaits and saddle fit to be pretty important. I have worked with a degenerative hip for a few years now, added degeneration at T-8/9 9/10/10/11 and a herniated C4. Certain horse conformations are easier and hurt less. Not-extravagant gaits are better. Not that I'm dumbing down, but I'm breeding smarter--I'm going Iberian and Spanish Colonial to get competitive gaits without so much "sproing."

For ME, thinline pads help. My Princeness & the Pea stallion loffs sheepskin, so I lay pices of thinline on it and secure with carpet tape. (can't afford the comfort pad, so I made my own.) It does make a difference. Of course, it makes the horse happy, so he is through more easily, and through is far easier on MY body than hollow. ;)

Another product which made a HUGE difference is the nubby grip seat, now called Rider Grip. It adheres to your saddle seat and was developed for jumping for 'grip' on slick saddles, but I find for me it also has just *that* much more shock absorbing that it's fabulous for the back. It feels like thinline for the rider.

Some folks find jointed stirrups help. They did help me fairly dramatically for a time, then rather suddenly were the WRONG answer. I wish I knew why. Offset eye stirrups same thing-loved them, then hated them. Slanted stirrup pads or irons--I prefer the high outside--can help. There are others that are front-to-back slanted, or both. I guess it's like orthotics in shoes, can make a big difference if that's what you need.

Definitely, above all, getting strong in your core to protect & stabilize your back. When more than two CotH'ers agree on something, there's usually something to it. :lol:

An odd sort of thing worth mentioning is diet changes helped me. Eliminating dairy cut my pain level by perhaps half. It's something I came across when doing research, was (fairly) easy to try. I didn't notice a difference at first, until I 'cheated' a couple times, and DID notice aches and pains after cheating.

[Bogey2]

Would love to hear how you arrange moist heat, Bogey2

I bought a heating pad that you microwave then put in a soft cover....I will then slip a hot wet face cloth in there and harness the thing to my back with the velcro straps. :lol: I look like the hunchback of Notre Dame!

[KWNic]

I don't know if I should be happy or sad that there seems to be quite a few others here dealing with their backs !! As a former nurse, I am aware of stregthening my core and I have begun working on that. I was a die hard eventer for years and have decided that to put myself in less danger, I will not jump anymore (although of course I am aware that anything could happen, even at a standstill !) I have a big dressage background, so I have decided that I will put all of my focus on dressage and I am totally looking forward to it (although my ISH probably isn't !!)
You guys have been awesome with your recommendations, and believe me, If I am not currently doing them, I will start. I have made diet changes, I am a huge Yoga practitioner (I credit Yoga as my biggest influence in riding!)
I am definately going to look into the Thinline Pad. My fear isn't falling or anything like that, its more about "shock absorption" !! My Arab X should not be an issue, but my big ISH may be !!
Thanks a million for all the suggestions....I hope they keep coming

Kelli

[slc2]

One doesn't even need a heating pad. A damp towel in the microwave for a few minutes can give one a really nice moist soaking heat. Beware of the danger of microwaving wet towels, and be careful, though.

However, most PT's will tell you that warmth is good to loosen up before exercise but that there may be a need for ice after, to prevent swelling and inflammation.

[eponacelt]

I have a congenital problem in my SI joint and lumbar vertebrae, as well as an old compression fracture of T4. The things that keep me going are (in no particular order):

1 - Aleve. Use liberally whenever necessary.

2 - Chiropractor. After getting a good fix going last year, I go back every 6-8 weeks for a slight readjustment. The more I do of #3, the less I see the chiro.

3 - Physical therapy for core strength. My chiro diagnosed the problem (SI issues) and while fixing it, he sent me to an EXCELLENT sports therapist. I highly recommend working with someone who either understands the issues you'll have when riding or is willing to learn. My PT spent a lot of time talking to me about riding and how I used my back, seat, legs and arms. She devised exercises that not only deal with the basic underlying issue, but also help with my riding. It was wonderful, and as long as I keep up with the work, I have less pain. In fact, now I tend to have some muscle soreness after riding, but no longer the stabbing, wrenching, searing pain that I used to deal with. And that just tells me that I need to be even stronger!

4 - A good saddle that fits ME. I had horrible back pain riding in certain saddles, but had one saddle that I loved which fit me wonderfully. Unfortunately, my four year old grew out of it. Finally, after hearing a litany of complaints, my chiro told me to go out and just buy a saddle just like it that fit my horse. And I did. And we both feel great. Especially for lower back issues, never underestimate how saddle fit can affect you, especially in dressage.

5 - Last but not least - regular stretching. Maybe this is just because of my particular issue, but stretching before and after riding, both in and out of the saddle definitely helps.

Good luck!

[Eclectic Horseman]

Just read this--

http://www.amazon.com/Riders-Pain-Free-Back-Overcome-Soreness/dp/1570763712/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1231778944&sr=1-1

[Bearskin]

Wow! Can I relate. I herniated C2,C3,C4, have torn rib capsules at T7 and T8, thorzcic impingement, and herniated L4,L5 and SI, after being rear-ended by a tandem dump truck (and now am starting to have degenrative disc). Then I came off a horse resulting in a compression frature at L5. I am a pro, but I know that I have limited riding time in my body. I am needing to become pickier and pickier about what I will or won't sit on.

I second most of the recommendations. Stretching and heating before riding, ice after. Core strengthing with Pilates/Yoga. Nutritional support. Appropratie horse with a saddle that really fits you. Also, I've found that eliminating the nightshade veggies really makes a huge difference. And if you are going to ride, keep riding!!!!! Even two days off in a row and I can hardly walk.

And of course -- BETTER LIVING THROUGH CHEMISTRY! Best of luck. I am personally waiitng until technology catches up and I can have my entire spine replaced:)

[Ambrey]

Nutritional support- the physiatrist recommended heavy doses of Omega 3s and B vitamins to support the nerves and Glucosamine to support the joints.

Chemistry- I ripped my stomach to shreds on NSAIDS. Now I basically take tylenol and Tramadol (ULTRAM, a prescription analgesic). Careful of those NSAIDS ;)

[KWNic]

I am laughing my ass off right now at Bearskin's response....I'm with you, waiting for a "spinal replacement" and I am a big supporter of "Chemical Interventions"....believe me, my spine specialist even told me to make sure I medicate myself before I ride and be prepared to re-medicate a few hours after !! I only use the NSAID's periodically, believe me, my stomache has been ripped up already !! I use my pain meds, but I also incorporate everything else as well, nutrition, yoga, etc...
I was watching a vidoe recently, cannot remember which one though, when the trainer said that in the sitting trot, you have to be able to absorb some of the shock in your lumbar spine and your discs will help absorb it....well, according to that, I am screwed !! I won't be able to absorb shit !! :lol:

[Eclectic Horseman]

I am laughing my ass off right now at Bearskin's response....I'm with you, waiting for a "spinal replacement" and I am a big supporter of "Chemical Interventions"....believe me, my spine specialist even told me to make sure I medicate myself before I ride and be prepared to re-medicate a few hours after !! I only use the NSAID's periodically, believe me, my stomache has been ripped up already !! I use my pain meds, but I also incorporate everything else as well, nutrition, yoga, etc...
I was watching a vidoe recently, cannot remember which one though, when the trainer said that in the sitting trot, you have to be able to absorb some of the shock in your lumbar spine and your discs will help absorb it....well, according to that, I am screwed !! I won't be able to absorb shit !! :lol:

Try taking NSAIDs with ranitidine (Zantac). Make sure that you take NSAIDs with food. Been doing it for years without any stomach problems despite taking maximum dose of ibuprofen (2400 mgs. per day.)

[SaddleFitterVA]

I had a bleeding ulcer a few years ago, and that is not pretty. Aleve is one of the worst NSAIDs on the stomach.

I have L3, L4, and L5/SI buldging and one of them is starting to rupture. Due to the bleeding ulcer history, I tend to get Rx NSAIDs that can be taken less frequently.

Diclofenac sodium is the one that seems to work reasonably well...and I'm out of it. So, I've been hitting aspirin/tylenol (Excedrin), ibuprofen and aleve a bit harder than I should.

I've also had a couple of injections, but want to ask about some of the patches as well.

Which horse I ride makes a huge difference. One of my horses hurts my back, just the way she moves. She is doing nothing wrong or ill behaved, just that the way she moves. So, I post her trot, and even quasi-post her canter, which keeps it tolerable. I will probably not ever show her dressage again though, stick w/ jumping, trails or possibly foxhunting her.

Sitting trot is hard and if I start to feel fatigued, I will return to posting. Jumping does not seem to be an issue on the back either. Sideways spooks...now those definitely contributed to the problem.

Staying fit also helps. If I can get 25 minutes on the treadmill in, 3 or 4 times a week followed by 20 minutes of yoga sun salutes, I feel much better.

And, icing it after overdoing it.

I love heat, but ice is better for the inflammation for me.

[Ambrey]

The patches got some really bad press recently and a lot of doctors stopped using them. I have a friend who had her life changed by the fentanyl patch (for the better) and her doctor pulled her off of it and it's been awful :(

NSAIDS with zantac sounds like something to try.

[dwblvr]

I have 2 herniated discs. Tried chiro, physical therapy, drugs, injections, etc., and haven't had a lot of success - I'm very active and do a lot of core exercises. I NEVER know what I'm going to wake up to the next day since one day i can be fine and the next an incredible mess, particularly the morning after I ride. :( The only thing that has given me some relief is deep tissue massage once a week. If you can get a prescription for massage from your ortho doc, you can normally get your insurance or flex spending accounts to cover the cost.

[fordtraktor]

I'm sure this won't be popular on the Dressage Forum, but I don't sit the trot -- and if I need to sit, I do so as little as possible.

[Ambrey]

I'm sure this won't be popular on the Dressage Forum, but I don't sit the trot -- and if I need to sit, I do so as little as possible.

It's not that it's unpopular, it's that it's not possible- above training level sitting trot is required :)!

[Gucci Cowgirl]

I have two herniations, both are extrusions. My L4/L5 is not as bad as my L5/S1. I also have S1 radiculopathy due to the L5/S1 extrusion.

I have been doing physio, select nerve root blocks (like epidural injections) and chiropractor adjustments. Now I am scheduled for surgery (microdiscectomy and laminectomy) this week because there has been no improvement since the problem started in June.

I am pretty picky about the horses I ride, the saddles I ride in, and making sure I am really warmed up before sitting the trot.

I have full bottles of narcoticc painkillers that I can't use because they make me vomit, so the only think I do for pain is heat and ice.

I hope you feel better soon, it's a rough road.

[Go Fish]

My entire spine from top to bottom is a mess. I won't go into the details about the damage. I also have Fibro. Plus, I'm older than dirt. I see an osteopath (no chiropractors, NO, NO, NO) and take Celebrex and Lyrica. It helps that my osteopath rides and understands my issues. This course of therapy keeps me riding. I'm not pain free, but it's manageable. I firmly believe in mind over matter. I'll be in a wheelchair before I stop riding.

[Speedy]

What works for me:

Swimming!!!! The more, the better.
Pilates. On a reformer, not the mat.

What does not:

Chiro
Dare I say it? Massage. I usually feel much worse after a massage - I simply can't lay on my back without moving for an hour. I feel like I've been mummified afterwards - it is nearly impossible for me to get off the table. Total bummer, because I used to love a good massage.

[LouLove]

I have herniation at L4-L5.

I have stayed away from sitting trot and canter for a year but things are starting to feel better. I am on Celebrex daily. I started riding a cute 15'3 Appendix QH who I am doing training level with. She has limited suspension - so although the dressagers frown at her movement - it is great for my back. :)

How does everyone do with canterwork?

LL

[Bearskin]

Canter work is fine, except for the occasionally over-exuberant flying change. Tempis are getting challenging, and I think my days of training the first flyings are coming to an end. The trot work, however, is what can make or break me . . . no wonder the Andys and Lusitanos are getting so popular. I think I should look in that direction in my old age . . .

[Ambrey]

HOW does one find a chiropractor who is not also a scam artist?

I am so tired of going to the chiropractor and getting charged for things I did not get, or being told that the ONLY WAY I'm ever going to be healthy is to see them 3x/week for full price, or be sold a bunch of supplements I don't want.

Sorry, I know this is off topic, etc., but it would really help my riding :D

[eponacelt]

HOW does one find a chiropractor who is not also a scam artist?

I am so tired of going to the chiropractor and getting charged for things I did not get, or being told that the ONLY WAY I'm ever going to be healthy is to see them 3x/week for full price, or be sold a bunch of supplements I don't want.

Sorry, I know this is off topic, etc., but it would really help my riding :D

I found my chiro through word of mouth. Ask the riders you know. Also, interview THEM before making an appointment and find out what their style is. My chiro spends A LOT of time with each patient, really diagnoses the issue, and finds the way to fix it. Sure, I had to go see him frequently (1-2x per week to start) but he told me that if I had to continue seeing him that frequently for more than a month or two, then we had bigger problems. Sure enough, the fixes started to "hold" once I went for PT and my PT talked with my chiro regularly.

Look for communication and time and care is all I can recommend.

[thatmoody]

The Friesian stallion kills my back; the Andalusian is like silk (although he's a bad actor, so his hotness almost cancels that out). I can sit the Andy's extended trot easily - my back just sort of floats along, but my trainer says I look like a gorilla when I'm trying to sit the Friesian :P. He's out for 12 weeks for recovery from surgery, and I'm almost glad for the respite.

My own TB is pretty smooth (both stallions belong to my trainer), and I can sit his trot pretty easily, as well, but he bucks from time to time, so I have to take that into account.

I herniated a disk several years ago but fortunately it's healed. Mostly now what bothers my back is shoveling shavings. I'd rather deal with bagged shavings because the shoveling is so miserable. I take diclofenac for my arthritis (with Prilosec to protect my stomach) and it helps my back, too.

[KWNic]

I've enjoyed reading and learning from all of these posts and what has really caught my eye the past few days is some of the posts regarding the Andy's being smooth. Does everyone feel that there is a "type" or breed of horse that can be successful in the dressage ring yet still be easier on our backs? Its funny that this has come up because I have spent quite a bit of time thinking of possibly selling my ISH in the near future....only because he loves to jump, that was he was "made" for in Ireland before I purchased him, he absolutely does not like the dressage work we have done for eventing, and he can be difficult for me to ride. All the signs are there for me to sell him, just don't know if my heart can do it! But if I should decide to, I would have to get another horse....therefore would love to hear everyones opinions on this subject....What about the Georgian Grande's?
Kelli

[Gucci Cowgirl]

canter work is fine, posting trot hurts more than sitting, and when the horses sneeze or trip or anything like that, that's the worst.

[Ambrey]

Or the "jolt upright spook."

That kills me.

[thatmoody]

Well, I've only ridden the one Andalusian, and I don't know if he's just particularly smooth or if it's a breed characteristic, but his trainer (who has a seriously bad back) mentioned that he saved him to ride when his back was particularly bad :). I can certainly vouch for him - it's not like riding a paso or gaited horse (those are SERIOUSLY smooth) but I notice mostly at the extended trot that, while there is suspension, it's smooth suspension. His conformation is such that he's just built to be smooth - nice shoulder angles, correct pastern angle, etc.. The friesian's gaits are excellent...for a friesian - he scored 8.5's on most of them at his eval. But they are HUGE, and very forward, and rather jarring. I can feel my core engaging when I ride him in a way that it doesn't with any other horse I've ever ridden.

http://s91.photobucket.com/albums/k307/thatmoody/Horse/?action=view&current=cuarango007.jpg

Ok, now I get to my second point. Core strength. That has always been at the root of my back problems, and yoga to address the weaknesses has been very helpful. As long as I do yoga, my back is manageable, but as soon as I slack off, it starts hurting. Sitting the trot, for me, is all about using your core to stabilize and harness the movements of the horse. If you don't have a strong core, your back doesn't buffer the movements and instead absorbs them.

[pintopiaffe]

re: breeds that *can* have gaits more suited to a bad back...

Iberian for sure, given the right conformation. My last lesson on a schoolmaster, I rode a little guy who is only an inch or so taller than my stallion, but he is more pear shaped (mine is a 50 gallon drum) and because he is a schoolmaster trained through HS and Airs, his back is like butter. I could sit his trot all day. It was easy to 'stifle' his trot--to not loosen through the hips enough to let him really come through... because he didn't himself 'induce' movement, if that makes sense. His canter in his younger days was enough to shake your teeth out of your head. One lesson I had on him 7 or 8 years ago we were working on clean single changes... we cantered a LOT. And I remember barely being able to get out of the car after the 5 hr drive home. I could barely breathe the next day my diaphragm was so sore!! :lol: NOW his canter is a delight. But of course now it is collected and balanced and strong.

MANY of the other Lusos I ride at my teachers are just SO much easier to sit. It's half conformation & gaits, and half training though--they are THROUGH. They are just impeccable in using their backs.

Saddlebreds and ASB crosses can be fabulously smooth and still have very competitive gaits. Like Iberians though, they can be harder to get honestly through.

Some Morgans are lovely rides for the 'back challenged.'

Of course--some WBs are too! Some DraftXs, etc. etc. It's problematic if you want to get a young horse, because you just don't know how you'll fit together and how the gaits will be... IMO, the more baroque are *usually* a little easier, but not always.

Ask me again in 10 years, when I have this generation and the next going, since rideability is topping my list of MUST haves in breeding now. I've always had it on the top four--but in a different meaning. NOW I am really, really concentrating on easy-to-sit and yet still competitive gaits. For when I'm a cripple old lady who still loves dressage. ;)

[Jaegermonster]

I have 3 herniated discs in my lower back. In spite of crippling pain for the last 20 or so years I rode anyway, chewed Aleve etc like candy and just thought I would have to live with the pain after a back specialist told me he wanted to fuse it and no more riding.
Couldn't stand upright after getting off a horse, was perching badly, etc etc.
About 6 months ago I found a really good chiro who finally fixed me, and fixed me right, and then I got flexible stirrups and a thinline pad.
I feel great. I haven't taken Aleve in months, have almost no pain unless we hunt realllly hard (I whip in at two hunts) or I really really over do it around the farm.

I highly recommend the stirrups and Thinline pads.

[Ambrey]

I highly recommend the stirrups and Thinline pads.

I have the stirrups and an ultra thinline pad- does anyone have any comments about the ultra thinline vs. the regular thinline?

[fordtraktor]

It shouldn't make much difference, Ambrey. An ultra is only 1/16 of an inch thinner than a regular.

[Jaegermonster]

Thinline had a deal a few months back where you got both the regular and the ultra for a great price. There were inserts with them with information about which pad was recommend for which (if the back problem was in the horse or the rider).
IIRC, it said the ultra was for back problems in riders and the regular was for the horse. Anyway, either way I tried both and felt better after riding with the one that was recommend for rider back problems, which I believe was the ultra. It also explains it on the website as well.

[ReBalance]

I find that those horses that feel difficult to sit at the trot are in fact moving with too much speed and therefore not enough impulsion. These types of horses tend to evade in a way that makes them feel somehow disjointed in their backs and as a result difficult to ride at the sitting trot. According to classical principles (which I find works) they need to be ridden at a slower pace but with more impulsion. Hope that helps.:)

[Gucci Cowgirl]

just had my back surgery today! I think it went well, I have no sciatic pain anymore, just the regular back pain plus the surgical trauma pain.