Need Input from Trainers/Instructors- Opening New Barn

[trainingtree]

In 1-2 years, I am building a training barn (10-12 stalls) and an indoor arena. It will not be a boarding stable, but have horses in training and lessons. We are located in an area where the closest qualified dressage trainer is 150 miles away. My intent is to find a qualified person to work out of my barn as a trainer and instructor, as an independent contractor. Their income would come from training and lessons, clinics, etc. My income would be from the board. There are a lot of little details to work out. There would not be housing and they would be responsible for their own insurance. I would do the initial marketing but this person's sole income would come from how successful they are basically. I can see this being a good situation for someone either starting out or a more experienced person who just wants to train and teach and not have the responsibility or expense of managing the farm. This person would have to come from out the immediate area, so they would be relocating. This person would have some income from training my horses and teaching ME but overall, it will be a business.

Are these type of arrangements out there? I can see someone wanting a steady paycheck, but if they retained 100% of their training fee and lessons, it might be very good for someone. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Just at the planning and idea stage!

[Mary in Area 1]

I did exactly what you are considering. I was the farm owner and had only boarding income with 11-12 stalls. I had a top-notch trainer with a great local clientele. Neither of us made any money.

You CANNOT break even by boarding alone. I am convinced of it. Not sure if the trainer would make a living with only 12 stalls, either. I know we couldn't do it in Metro Boston.

Good luck!

[JackSprats Mom]

You CANNOT break even by boarding alone

See now I would have to disagree. My BO seems to make a very pretty penny from boarding (trainer get paid for her training only). However that said he has 60+ acres that I'm sure no longer has a motgage on it. There are probably close to 70 horses. The simple math is 11,200 from Full board then 9600 from the semi privates (2 horses per 1.5 acre paddock) then 2200 from the full turnout horses (this is off the top of my head counting so give or take a few horses). His monthly income is 23k. Then deduct hay, electric, equip etc etc but I'm still betting its a comfy living (after all he competes numerous times a year and goes to Hawaii a couple times, drives a Volvo).

Trainer doesn't do badly either, has min of 7-10 horses in training plus lessons.No overhead as barn is seperate as such and most folks have lessons on their own horses. Now she could make a KILLING if she actually charged for half of what she should and increases her lesson prices to what they should be! But she makes it affordable for those of us that can't pay $80 an hour to train so we love her :D

None of this is from experience just observation so take it as you will

[Shiaway]

I think if you made that more like 25+ stalls instead of 10 you might be able to do it. I've boarded at a place with the exact set up you're talking about. I don't think the BO would have been able to do it without having an independent income aside from the barn. I don't think the trainer could have done it without going to give clinics a few times a month on weekends.

It might help if you don't have any of your own horses.

ETA. Oh yeah sorry. I'm not a trainer/instructor either. I forgot to say.

[Bogey2]

I agree with Mary. I have seen it happen a few times in my area. Unless you plan to do a lot of the work yourself and will hold no mortgage it will not work. I run my own facility and if I did not teach and train I would not be able to afford it....and I don't have a mortgage on the barn/indoor. My taxes and insurance alone take a big chunk. I also have lesson horses and they are a big part of my $$. I do live in an expensive state but everything is relative. You charge based on the market so we charge more but make about the same because of the costs.

[slc2]

Not a trainer or instructor, but neither are some of your other replyers.

Few trainers want to do just 10 lessons a week to 10 horses at your barn, they are going to want to do much more, probably at other local barns (are there any dressage or eventing barns around there?). You may find someone who has small kids or is semi retired and only wants to teach a little.

I think the main thing that's important to a teacher/instructor/trainer is can they 'block out' a solid block of teaching time, and avoid transportation costs and a lot of travel back and forth time.

Anyone using an owner's barn and running a really active, profitable lesson program CAN, in fact, produce a great deal of friction. They are at the barn many hours a day, and they pretty much monopolize the ring when they are teaching. And you may get a little irritated after a while, if you are seeing someone make a lot of money and using your barn so busily as a base for their business. That DOES happen.

One CAN make a very good profit boarding. What kills people? Chiefly, from what I've seen, high cost of supplies, high mortgage payments, high payroll costs, periods of time when they are not full, too few or too many stalls, not calculating their prices well, and just not being used to it.

It's uncomfortable to say, but a number of the failing small boarding businesses I've seen (other than those failing due to unexpected changes in cost, bad luck or illness), are because the people just had no idea how much work it is. They get sick of doing it. Eventually they want to pay someone else to do the work, and they don't want to spend that much time in the barn, and that's expensive.

I don't think ANYONE should try to run a boarding barn unless they are very, very used to spending a great part of their day, in the barn, working - cleaning stalls, riding, turning out, and being around horse people day in and out. If they STILL like it, they should consider opening a boarding barn. I think the people who do best are those who have spent years working in other barns, running other barns. They're just...used to it. It's a way of life for them.

I see people having a very, very hard time making the transition from having their own private barn to opening it up for boarding. For years they fed, turned out and did things exactly when they wanted to and how they wanted to. And they had PRIVACY. Now all of a sudden, there is a constant stream of cars coming in and out, people coming in and out, most with their own strong opinions about how things should be done, lots of special individual things they want, and very few ever had a barn of their own.

No one should underestimate this. If you're sensitive, boarding is not a good business to get into. You really need to be an odd person - very laid back and relaxed, yet like to get up every single day and work very enthusiastically in a very routine...routine.

Some costs you can't do anything about. Some people go with very minimal or even no insurance, though it isn't wise. But the other costs can be worked at.

A farmer might supply bedding and hay at a fraction of the feed dealer or hay broker's prices.

One might do all one's own work, avoiding the huge cost and head aches of payrolls these days.

One might not accumulate a lot of one's own horses. Horses bought as 'resales' tend to accumulate; many don't get sold for a long time, by the time they do, they have eaten a lot of hay and used a lot of bedding.

The barn mortgage might be 'done paid for', and the unreimbursed costs of running the place might be looked at as fair trade for having one's own horse's not boarded out...plus the equity in the property is nothing to sneeze at.

It is really not so bad to 'break even', and that can be calculated in a lot of different ways. Paying for one's own horses, having a nice property to live on, and selling a well maintained property in the future, one with a well known, steady business, isn't so bad. If you can pay some of the household expenses too, even one of them, that isn't so bad.

It might be quite unrealistic to assume one will make a big income for oneself, but it also depends on how you measure that income, the equity in the property, and weigh it against the other options (boarding 4 of your own horses at 900 bucks a month an hour from home, for example).

[slc2]

oop

[Bogey2]

because the people just had no idea how much work it is. They get sick of doing it. Eventually they want to pay someone else to do the work, and they don't want to spend that much time in the barn, and that's expensive.

exactly

[merrygoround]

I suspect that the BO who competes a couple times a year, drives a Volvo, and goes to Hawaii, has another source of income.

The unfortunate aspect of running a boarding operation is the costs. Few people realize the sheer $$$$$$$$$$ involved in maintenance. Having a trainer insure themselves does not relieve you of having insurance, fire, liability, care, custody and control. Fences break, equipment requires repair and maintenance. And then if you hire help, you need to worry about workman's comp.

Hard to charge enough to cover it depending on the area.

[slc2]

The key isn't usually to raise the board to cover costs; it's reducing costs.

Reducing costs, knowing the market, filling a niche, knowing yourself and what you really can do.

[trainingtree]

I think I need to clarify, the 10-12 stalls are for horses in full training only- not a boarding barn. A trainer cannot make much income from horses in stalls that are not in training. I think it would be very hard for one trainer (with maybe a groom) to work 10 horses 5 times a week plus possibly give lessons and travel for clinics, etc. That is why I want it on a smaller scale. Quality is better than quantity.
I am building this for myself irregardless if I have a trainer on site, so the goal of a profit from board is not really relevant. I can provide others (and myself) an option that are also tired of driving 150 miles for help. It will be nice to have a place where I can bring in quality clinicians on a regular basis.

[slc2]

I think it would be very hard for one trainer (with maybe a groom) to work 10 horses 5 times a week plus possibly give lessons and travel for clinics, etc. That is why I want it on a smaller scale. Quality is better than quantity.

Um...most of the dressage trainers I know have a much fuller schedule than what you describe as 'hard'.

[Bogey2]

so the goal of a profit from board is not really relevant.

well you said "my income would be from the board"....so I guess I assumed you wanted an income.

[Melissa.Hare.Jones]

I'm a freelance pro. I carry my own insurance and receive income from lessons and training rides only at a variety of barns I visit regularly. I could see planting myself in one place if the management practices and set-up matched my standards of a quality operation.

But... your location may have a big impact on your plans. Instructors usually pop up where there are clients. If there's not one in 150 miles... is there enough of a need for one that he/she could make a steady living? Offering an optimum number of stalls is certainly important, but you have to be able to keep them filled with customers willing to pay a certain amount in order to make it work for both you and the trainer. Make sure you do your research!

Also.. Your offer would look a lot more attractive if housing were included, too. A nice barn apartment is a handy thing to have in any case, but it might be necessary if you're trying to attract someone into an area that's not established.

[narcisco]

I think location more than anything dictates if you can make a profit boarding horses. Where we are from where hay prices skyrocket yearly, it's nearly impossible to make much profit. If you are in a state with a lot of pasture and easy access to good quality hay, you can do better.

With only 10 or 12 stalls, you have a very set income when it comes to boarding. When determining how much to charge for board you might want to do a local comparison analysis. Look at the footprints of successful and unsuccessful boarding barns in your area and see how many horses it takes to keep one running. Supply and demand will dictate your prices, and therefore your profit.

You can generate profit in several ways, with higher board, cutting costs, and outside income.

With higher board than the other stables in your area, you will need to offer more services. More services (blanketing, daily turnout, stall rest, etc) are labor intensive and more expensive.

Unfortunately, in cutting costs you cut services, and might lose the type of clientele you might be looking for with so few boarders, people who will take 2 or more lessons a week and put their horse in full training.

Outside income can include charging the trainer ring fees, hosting clinics, putting on shows and symposiums, running your own lessons, and renting your arena out for those purposes. You can get creative there.

In my area, a 10 stall training barn wouldn't go. Overhead is key. The cost of keeping 10 horses on a 10 acre facility in this area costs almost as much in overhead as keeping 30. Water, electric, mortgage, fencing, even labor depending on your management skills, are semi-fixed costs that stay the same regardless of how many horses you have. This is why many good barns are slightly to greatly overcrowded.

The downside of having 1 trainer is that when they leave (and trainers lead a gypsy life), you face re-building a clientele and six months of very low to no income. One or two such "re-orgs" can break you financially and mentally.

10 to 12 stalls, however, is perfect for a school program or a lesson barn. Again, you can get creative and play it both ways, training and lessons. Often boarders will take a reduction in board and allow you to use their horses in lessons. A good school program, running decent numbers, can generate a lot of income. So, you might consider two trainers, one who teaches lessons on 4 or 5 lesson horses (who might also be boarder's horses or your own), and the rest who work with your part-time outside trainer. Contractors must be working outside your barn as well to be truly contractors, so the number of horses at your place would not phase me as a trainer. I would work elsewhere to make up the difference.

Crunch the numbers. Then crunch them again and again, playing with different scenarios.

[srg]

Don't want to burst your bubble, but if you are factoring the mortgage, taxes and insurance into your expenses, you will likely not break even.

I brought an out-of-town BNT into a beautiful barn (20 stalls) in a very horsey area, marketed the hell out of both the trainer and facility and we were pretty much full with a waiting list within a month or two of opening. There were about five horses that were not "in training" and we also offered half-training which was not always available with other BNTs. I charged for board (about $100 over going rate which included everything--NO extra charges for anything) and the trainer charged for training. The facility is drop-dead gorgeous if I do say so myself. :)

Financially it never worked. I have a *real* full-time executive job with a decent income and I needed to use all my financial resources to keep the place afloat. Coupled with the financial realities and the fact that I had two thoracic spinal surgeries in one year and now have a permanent spinal cord injury as a result, my beautiful dream farm is currently on the market. In the worst real estate market ever. :(

If you can look at the "boarding business" as the costs of grain, hay, shavings, insurance and farm labor, you can break even or possibly make a teeny-tiny profit depending on what you feed, how much work you do yourself and how you use your pastures, ie, can the horses be out a lot on good grass so that you ultimately need to use less hay and shavings. If you are trying to additionally factor in property taxes, high staffing costs including unemployment insurance, liability, care and custody and workers comp, and a mortgage and capital improvements, as another poster said, crunch your numbers and then crunch them some more.

Talk to other people who have done this and made it work. I know I would've made it work if I had had a lower mortgage and my full physical capabilities. Best wishes on your dream. I've been in your similar position and it was the most exciting time of my life! :D

[mbm]

what i found is that to make $$ or even break even in boarding you need to have economies of scale..... that means put as many horses as you can on your land..... when i was doing this with 4 horses i was losing $$, with 6 i would break even , with 11 I would of make a little bit of cash.

so what i did was do a huge amount of research... i priced *everything* and put it in my budget spreadsheet.

also undersntad that things take wayyyy longer than most people realize and a boarding/training barn is a HUGE amount of work and a labor of love. that many horses will be a full time job just for the boarding aspect and then the trainer will need an assistant too.

so in short figure out how many horses you can comfortably have on your place and then figure out how to minimize your costs.... that means being able to buy iin bulk - you will go broke if you have to run to the feed store for hay instead of ordering it by the truck load - etc etc. so plan for a lot of hay and bedding storage.

also when planning your barn plan for economy of movement and ease of completing chores. ie dont have your muck pile so far from the barn that it takes forever to trundle out there to dump a wheelbarrow, make sure there are lots of faucets, warm water, etc etc etc. for every step you save you will get more done. time is $$ at a barn!

make sure to get DEPOSITS from boarders for damage. and you also might think about requesting them to carry their own liability insurance.

as for the trainer - it will be very hard for a trainer to make it on 10 horses in full training - especially if they need to pay a mortgage or rent. not sure what the training rates are there but lets use $500/mo for ease... that is 5000/month if the rainer has a full barn. are you going to pay full price too? if not deduct your training costs from that. then factor in rent/insurnace/taxes (1/3) etc etc .... 5000 is not much $$$$$ and it isnt gauranteed either! shoot health care itself would take a up a huge chunk....

so..... plan very carefully and realize that it just might not be posssilbe. (i know a couple trainers that went bankrupt doing exactly what you are planning) .....

i wish you the best of luck! it is still my dream to again do what you are planning..... :)

[Renae]

I am not a dressage trainer, but am a professional trainer. I doubt a trainer in most parts of the country make their sole living off of 10-12 training horses. If that is all they are working they are doing a lot of judging and clinics on the side (which means a lot of time away from the farm). I would think if the trainer needs to make sole living off your farm without having to travel out to do extra things they would need more like 20 stalls.

As someone else said running 10-12 stalls as a lesson mill where it is all school horses that give 2-3 lessons a day 5-6 days a week ould probably be profitable if you could get up to those numbers.

I would look up how much professional horseman's liability insurance costs and think about that along with how much the cost of living is in your area.

Also read the rules regarding independant contractors vs. employees for tax purposes. Trying to skirt this can end up costing you some $$ penalties. As I understand it a business owner can not dictate to an independent contractor when and where they work, an IC is not an employee, they are another business person. So if you want your trainer who is an IC you can't tell them things like when they will take their vacation or what other jobs they will work. So if IC trainer finds in your area another barn to work out of where they can give 6 lessons 3 nites a week and 1 of those nites is one the nites you want your lesson you can't really dictate to them they give 1 lesson at your place over doing 6 somewhere else.

Also I would want to know why there are no dressage barns in the area if I were the trainer looking at coming to your place. Are there affluent people from which to draw a customer base? Are there shows to go to within a reasonable distance?

[goeslikestink]

I think I need to clarify, the 10-12 stalls are for horses in full training only- not a boarding barn. A trainer cannot make much income from horses in stalls that are not in training. I think it would be very hard for one trainer (with maybe a groom) to work 10 horses 5 times a week plus possibly give lessons and travel for clinics, etc. That is why I want it on a smaller scale. Quality is better than quantity.
I am building this for myself irregardless if I have a trainer on site, so the goal of a profit from board is not really relevant. I can provide others (and myself) an option that are also tired of driving 150 miles for help. It will be nice to have a place where I can bring in quality clinicians on a regular basis.

instructors if qualifeid work on freelance basics ie your cannot control there business
as its them that are independant of you and therefore not under your employment

but if however you chose to hold regualar clinics then you would perhaps get hold of your local 4-h group or uspc. or usef to find out the listed accredited trianers which are linked to the FEI by assocaites or groups,

her e in uk that list is of associated groups and societies would BSJA , BD ,BYDS, BEF, BE,
HT, ABRS, RDA, and BHS, UK SPORT COACH,etc
BHS is the governing body of all intructors with examinations you have to pass before one is allowed to teach ie BHSAI british horse society advance Instructor
some bhs approved riding schools have facilites to take and trian for the exsaminations required which are done in stages 1 -3 and at stage three is when you have to pass your ptt before any teaching can begin, and also have to pass a ride and road safety test plus 1st aid there are other bhs exminations for horse owners but these do not understand do not allow you to teach an indidviual or group

all bhs or assocaited societies have accreidted trainers that have been ther and done it
in international competitions ie say for exsample pippa funnel or jenny loristone clark mary king, john whittaker andrew gould jeff billington carl hester joy loyla
that have worn the t shirt back wards most of these show jumpers eventers endurance riders etc have also come up through the ranks of the pony club in adulthood and competes at top level

so therefore the freelance instruction you would get from any of our trianers would be second to none in a big named trianer
or even with bhsAI you would still be getting a good deal of very decent instruction but perhaps not at the same price you would have with a bnt

so therfore if one was bhs trianed it might be that that person already runs a yard which can be bhs approved as my own and my top yard lady is aprroved but then shes also a bhsII
intermediate instructor
or teaches at a bhs approved riding school or does it on a freelance basics but one might be working part - time as well or one does it on a part time a basis for whatever reasons
all cases would have to declared it to the inland revenue as you earning by way of payment be it employed or self employed

rallies by the pony club are organised at a lot cheaper rate and often for minium fee ie a fiver for each rally but lesson with invited guests can be for members say 20.00 or non members 30 quid
each facility must have by law, a rest room, a loo, fire extinquishers, health and safety protocol in force and regulations clearly displayed insurance reguations clearly displayed
in each yard plus car park and facilites to teach in ie indoor school or out door school
a square one- at least 20 x 60 and only 4 maxium to a group lesson in one hour

hence when pc or rc have faclilties of club fields or x/c etc, which as its a bhs venue
would be covered by insurance if you are a indidviual member you are also covered 3rd party at any bhs event or rally

some bhs approved yard that have ful time liveries only have invited instructors on weekly/monthly or residential basis but also have the facilites to trian for x/c or hold pc camps or bsja cometitions as they are aprroved - for a exsample of approved ht or examniantion centres then look at thomas 1 as he is and does prepare for bhs examnations for exsample of approved school with invited instructors
then look at www.hoplands.co.uk i will use that one as it has american links ie does a lot of american products you will see an execellent x/c course and you will also see it has top international people that compete today and teach there ie mary king you also see has full indoor school and outdoor school
here we have these facilites all over the place i have use these myself along with a few others like www.pachesham.com which offer pony clubs to hold camps there aswell along with www.coldblow-camping.co.uk or www.chilhampark.co.uk the above exsamples are off those which only houses full liveries or part times liveries grass and diy if they have them would be offered at a much lower rate and they would have use the facilites at an extra cost
cases display fixtures and cost for liveries and within that cost what expected for each livery or client customer click on the bars for the required information or links and most diaires of whats ona nd where is in all the freebie mags plus brought mags plus also on relevent web pages and internet pages like equie affairs and riding diary so people can have a good choice of whats on in there area

a 10 or 12 box yard unless you have facilites aswell wont earn enough for a trianer on a reguar basis
unless your cliental ahd the financial backing and time to comit to lesson everyday via an invited proffesional trianer and you have to have the facilites to offer in the 1st palce to make it attractive to both plus hold events or to have residient qualified instructor on site

you have to be realy safety consious and know what your doing yous ay you want a training yard but what type of training- breaking and schooling horses to a proffesional standard requires in depth knowledge of each displine and management so that the horse can go onto what the client requires to do with him so the therefore the foundation that you give him in his knowledge good or bad reflects on how you trained said horse
my yard is bhs approved and i break and school and re hab re trian horses i am governed by the BHS protocol and i am a private yard

[narcisco]

Yet another scenario is to lease the whole facility to the trainer. They could provide their own management or you could provide it at a higher rate.

[pluvinel]

The underlying assumption is that the "trainer" needs to make 100% of their living from training. I am considering retiring from Corporate America as soon as possible....sooner if the market had not tanked, and doing training part-time. I want to do this as I enjoy working with horses and people. The training income would be icing on the cake and nice pocket money. I have taken riders (W-T-C) to 3rd level. I have a schoolmaster.

I would love to be a trainer at a nice facility. I am planning on getting my USDF Silver Medal solely as a marketing tool. So, there may be "elderly" riders quite competent who might be interested. It depends on where you are and who is around.

Remember, Reiner Klimke was a practicing attorney and Barnabas Mandi (O judge from Hungary) is a physician.

[Knothead]

From a non-instructor/non-barn owner, but a boarder:
If you wind up having to charge a much higher rate than "competing" barns around you (even if they can't offer as much) to keep this in the black, you may not attract (or the trainer may not attract) the clientele .... despite the need in my area for a good instructor/trainer and my willingness to pay somewhat more for it, I could not justify it if board at one facility were significantly higher than another within a 15/20 mile radius. I am in somewhat of a similar sounding area, and the question you would need to answer first is are there people WILLING to (a) change instructors (regardless of what is perceived as quality or not) and (b) change barns and (c) pay more board, if that's what were to happen. How many people within a 15-20 mile radius of your place fall into all three of these categories? I know from past experience sometimes a facility is picked by the amenities, not so much by the trainer whose there (believe it not).....will you have other things to offer other than the indoor (ie., trails to hack out on)? on site shows? close proximity to showing? plenty of healthy turnout that can be customized to people's needs (ie., private/semi-private turnout? 24 hour turnout? minimal turnout for those that want it (ugh)? etc.). So many variables. Hard to say what will work without knowing how many people would be willing to sign up for a "new" trainer in the area and whether they are willing to change boarding facilities to ride with that trainer.

[trainingtree]

The underlying assumption is that the "trainer" needs to make 100% of their living from training. I am considering retiring from Corporate America as soon as possible....sooner if the market had not tanked, and doing training part-time. I want to do this as I enjoy working with horses and people. The training income would be icing on the cake and nice pocket money. I have taken riders (W-T-C) to 3rd level. I have a schoolmaster.

I would love to be a trainer at a nice facility. I am planning on getting my USDF Silver Medal solely as a marketing tool. So, there may be "elderly" riders quite competent who might be interested. It depends on where you are and who is around.

Remember, Reiner Klimke was a practicing attorney and Barnabas Mandi (O judge from Hungary) is a physician.

A person such as yourself for example would be a great fit. I have to have a person who rides and can start horses. That is what I could offer that is not in this area. We have one trainer who has not been on a horse since the Carter administration, two hunter trainers to will not start horses and the only other one works at a barn that has been under quarantine for various diseases the last few years. So a clean, safe, well managed barn with a qualified professional would be a godsend!

[pluvinel]

Word of mouth referals are your best bets. Talk to your farrier, vet, feed store, tack store for people who don't show, then go to shows. Look at the riders of a "more advanced" age. See if they ride well, treat their horses fairly. A "non-pro," but experienced and serious rider, will have a professional demeanor.

The best judge I have scribed for was Michael Handler, son of Hans Handler, former Chief Rider of SRS. Mr. Handler is/was an insurance executive.

There are people who earn their living elsewhere to pay for their horse habit, then spend it on getting the best instruction they can afford and may actually have a good background because their "day job" afforded them the opportunity (and funds) to get the best training.

One still needs to "vet" the person.....lotsa crazies out there. Also, one needs to see if the person's approach to "child rearing" (er., horse rearing) is congruent with the barn owner's.

I have personal expectations of what is expected as polite behavior from a horse. Those expectations have not always jived with those of barn owners. I also believe that "horse training" starts any time one is around the horse. Thus that includes behavior during feeding, turnout and just standing around in the aisle or cross-ties. So, it isn't just riding ability, it is all-round horsemanship that defines the true trainer. The ability to control all aspects of how a horse is handled and the behaviors that are expected, the appropriate corrections for various degrees of insurrections would be a fabulous opportunity for riders who wanted to be on the "trainer's program."

[STF]

Just sit down with an accountant, that has horsie background experience and look at some #'s before you start.

[merrygoround]

srg I'd cheerfully swap my barn or any barn within 50 miles of it for yours.:yes:

Picuresque snow,indeed.

[sid]

Other than a lesson barn which has a string of horses (often "donated" to the farm to keep in work at a reduced boarding fee-- note: NOT facility owned at their own full expense), I've not seen the arrangement you want to embark upon ever work. People who teach kids on ponies often do the best because Mommy and Daddy will pay anything to make their child happy.

When it comes to serious, adult-oriented horse riding/training/boarding businesses to sustain itself it can be a very different story. I've seen it be quite profitable (no subsidizing from other sources of income) ONLY in the following scenario:


1. It was teaching/training only barn in a specific discipline.

2. The person who opened the operation was the teacher/trainer.

3. Owners of the horses at the facility paid full board rates that were competitive with most "show" barns, BUT horses were accepted only with a minimum amount of training per month to be paid by the owner. This could be a set amount of lessons (paid whether you cancel or not), starting a youngster..or just keeping a horse in work and brought up the levels.

4. Sometimes it was for a specific period of time, other times it was not. But in every case, the horse had to be in training (the owner to pay the appropriate fees in advance), or the boarding was terminated.

5. Supplemental income was derived from show "coaching" fees and transportation to and from shows. Also having clinics...inside or from outside trainers. Outside trainers are good publicity for the facility, but seldom is there a lot of profit in doing so.

5. "Labor" for the farm and barn upkeep and all that entails, to present a first rate operation was provided by working students under the watchful and instructional eye of the trainer/instructor.

Never seen it work any other way.

BTW, in all these scenarios, the person who embarked on this did NOT own the farm...they leased a facility.

[poltroon]

Something to keep in mind as far as the size is that you can't expect all your clients to be able to pay for full training. A large percentage might want one or two lessons a week, and ride on their own the other days. It's a function not only of finances, but also logistics - within our group of working adults, there were only 4 weekday lesson slots that were compatible with a fulltime job (7am), and the Saturday slots were irregular, because the trainer would be off at shows. If you are able to accommodate evening lessons year round, or if all of your clients are on a more flexible schedule, or if you're expecting to do a lot of group lessons, then you might have less of an issue.

[sid]

Poltroon, yes these entrepeneurs did evening lessons...but only a few times a week.

Basically, if clients wanted the service and the trainer/instructor/barn principal was well respected, the hours, costs and time available was set.

Clients who seek this kind of training and horse care, adjust accordingly. Pay the price. Feel they are getting what they and their horse needs. But the trainer/barn entrepeneur does profit in this case, as it should be.

Remember, too. Most of them don't own horses of their own for which to cover their "overhead". They are paid to ride, train, show, take clients to shows and be sure their charges are well cared for.

They simply don't subsidize any aspect of horse training or horsekeeping for their clients.