Gastric Ulcers

[LaraNSpeedy]

So the horse was diagnosed now officially with extreme case of gastric ulcers. The medical treatment is $1200 a month - the vet said there is an Eastern Medicine treatment that runs abotu $175 a month that he thinks is better.

As we are considering these options - anyone know of a home remedy or something else? we tried GUT and ulcer guard - he gets constant food - probios - etc.

He also is a big cribber so I know the ulcers are partically personality and it may be a never ending thing btu I want to help him some just to help him hold weight on and feel and look better. He is a gorgeous big hunter type and his owner does easy flat and low jumping shows - in hand showing - he does not ACT nervous 99% of the time so he must be one of those internal nervous horses...

[Safety_Alter]

Not that anyone on this forum REALLY wants to hear it, but yes, my horse was cured of his ulcers with an herbal treatment.

Let the tirades now ensue about how GastroGard is the only scientifically proven method to treat ulcers. Which is totally true, of course. But when my horse was diagnosed with ulcers, I thought immediately of all the threads here on COTH about people who treated with GG yet were stuck afterward feeding their horse endless ulcer supplements, making huge diet and turnout alterations, and spending tons of money/time/mental energy on "maintenance" for their "ulcer-prone" horse. I did not want to join that crowd. And I thought, "Maybe I should at least *call* my local herbal vet and see what she has to say."

$250 in herbal supplements later, the horse was 100% fine. Before treatment he was totally off his grain, aggressive, back sore, bucking when trotting or cantering to the right, nervous, and anxious. Within 24 hours of treatment starting, he was eating all of his grain. Within two weeks, all of the behavioral and pain symptoms were gone. Within 5 weeks, he was done with the treatment and has been fine ever since. It's been over 8 months now and he's still his sweet, calm, friendly, personable old self. We have since moved barns and he's gone to having LESS turnout, a LOWER quality feed, LESS alfalfa in the diet, and MORE stress in his life (not a ton but we've taken a few trailer rides, we moved to a new barn, etc.) We don't use any ulcer supps. He does get a probiotic with his food, but that was true before AND during AND after his ulcer treatment.

The theory behind the herbal stuff goes like this. Warning: it is not even remotely scientific.

--Horse ulcers start when there's excess acid released in the gut for whatever reason.
--The horse's intestines sense this excess acid and begin coating themselves with mucus to try and protect the digestive mechanisms from this excess acid.
--The mucus coating grows thicker and thicker, making for less and less efficient digestion (which is why you get ulcer-prone horses who eat everything in sight and still lose weight because they're not digesting anything).
--Despite the mucus, the horse's body tries to keep the digestion going by releasing more and more acid.
--The digestion gets so inefficient that despite the excess acid, the food starts stalling and putrefying in the gut, which means it produces even MORE acid.
--The acid level becomes so overwhelmingly high that you have an ulcerated horse in extreme pain who's hardly getting any nutrients from his diet.

So according to that theory, you have two options for treatment:treat the digestive system so as to dissolve that mucosal lining and thereby restore the status quo (that's the herbal approach), or manually lower the level of stomach acid by shutting off acid pumps (that's GastroGard). Obviously the GastroGard will be 100% effective in the short term, and maybe even in the long term if the gut wasn't that screwed up to begin with. But if you've got a wicked case of ulcers, this kooky herbal theory does seem to explain why people end up with "ulcer prone" horses.

So...that's my story. Take it or leave it.

[webmistress32]

remember the treatment is only necessary for about 4-6 weeks until the ulcers heal after which you will just treat prophylactically.

I have done both the herbal treatment and the GG. they both work as long as you make the other changes as well: diet and management.

[BeastieSlave]

http://www.ponymeds.com has omeprazole in a tablet for considerably less $. There are several forlks here who have posted good results if you do a search.

[KnKShowmom]

He also is a big cribber so I know the ulcers are partically personality and it may be a never ending thing btu I want to help him some just to help him hold weight on and feel and look better. He is a gorgeous big hunter type and his owner does easy flat and low jumping shows - in hand showing - he does not ACT nervous 99% of the time so he must be one of those internal nervous horses...


We may have a carbon copy of your horse....

That said, when he had all the signs of an ulcer, we skipped the scope stress, changed how we managed his turn out, added alfalfa and a higher fat feed and used a product call Gastrix. Much cheaper than UG, has MSM plus herbal and natural ingredients and he eats it on his feed. After a while we were able to wean him off of it and he's been fine ever since. Now the only time we use it is if he is going to be stressed (surgery, changing barns..) and then we put him on it for a couple of days before and about a week or two after then back him off again.

Also, if you are not already using one, a cribbing collar would be a good idea.

[hollyhorse2000]

I use Ulcergard. It works. I'd love to use something cheaper. but other things (generic omeprazole, aloe vera, herbs, etc.) may or may not work. I don't want to risk it. My horse is doing great on the Ulcergard and I don't want to experiment with her stomach, her well-being and her happiness.

Once treatment is done, you can use ulcergard as needed when it appears that stress is re-appearing. BTW, a horse doesn't have to "appear" nervous to have ulcers. Somethign as relatively simple as trailering to a show can trigger an ulcer in certain horses.

Changing management can certainly help keep him ulcer-free after he is successfully treated. 24/7 turnout, lots of hay, alfalfa hay, etc. may help in the longer run.

Good luck!

It took about a week for my mare to suddenly blossom and begin putting on weight. it's taken longer than that to get the full benefit from the treatment. I now give her 1/4 tube every other day. I'm afraid to stop because it's helped so much!!

[gabz]

So what exactly are the herbal treatments? The slippery elm, marshmallow root, etc?

Do you have a website that discusses the herbal treatment?

[FolsomBlues]

Anytime I see a thread about ulcers I always have to recommend this website: http://www.lunatunesfreestyles.com/ulcers.htm This woman explains exactly what is happening and how to treat ulcers long term. I started doing this with my guy and noticed a HUGE difference. And the treatment didn't break the bank. Here are a few steps that she recommends (that I do as well) that have helped us tremendously:

1. Feed 4 cups alfalfa pellets prior to riding (soaks up any excess stomach acid prior to riding so it does not splash around on the stomach lining and cause ulcers)

2. Squirt 70-100 cc's of Mylanta in the back of their mouth right before riding (coats the upper stomach and ulcers so any acid that may splash around during riding is somewhat prevented from irritating any further)

3. Supplement with dried cabbage, oat flour, Fastrack Probios, peppermint oil, chlorophyll, brewer's yeast, and l-glutamine. It may sound like a long list and like it would be expensive, but when you go to the websites she recommends, you can get all the supplements for very cheap. Sometime's the Vitamin place that has the peppermint oil, chlorophyll, brewer's yeast, and l-glutamine has buy 2 get 3 free sales, so you get 5 bottles for the price of two.

5. Treat with Omeprazole which is infinitely cheaper than GastroGuard (exact same product) when bought here www.ponymeds.com

If you've made it to the end of this I'm impressed. Just wanted to share my experience with ulcers and what we've done to get my horse back! He was a little nutty for a while, but treating him the way she outlines on the website (and using the maintenance methods she suggested as well) have brought him back to his normal, charming self!

[cavalli]

Omeprazole, I get it in a 1 Kg pawder (the owner of 1 of the horses who needs it is a small animal vet) the cost is about 80 cents a day.
So maybe you can con your small animal vet to look into it.

[dwblover]

Just for anyone who is interested, Smartpak's Smartdigest Ultra contains L-glutamine, liccorice, brewer's yeast and a host of other great ingredients instead of buying them all separately. There Smartgut does contain marshmallow root and slippery elm also. I was just so glad to find a supplement that had everything I wanted in one place!

[Ghazzu]

The theory behind the herbal stuff goes like this.

I'll leave it, thanks. Even though I'm a card-carrying member of the VBMA...


Warning: it is not even remotely scientific.


You got that part right.



--Horse ulcers start when there's excess acid released in the gut for whatever reason.


The acid is released by the stomach lining. The release is more or less constant, as the horse was designed by nature to eat constantly, unlike meal-eating carnivores, where acid secretion is triggered by eating.


--The horse's intestines sense this excess acid and begin coating themselves with mucus to try and protect the digestive mechanisms from this excess acid.

The acid isn't excess. It's just there. And if the intestines are secreting mucus, it ain't going to do squat to help the stomach, which is one the the primary sites of ulceration.
The pancreas does secrete humongous amounts of bicarbonate to neutralize the acid as it enters the duodenum.


--The mucus coating grows thicker and thicker, making for less and less efficient digestion (which is why you get ulcer-prone horses who eat everything in sight and still lose weight because they're not digesting anything).

One would think this excessive mucous coating would show up in the manure, were that the case.


--Despite the mucus, the horse's body tries to keep the digestion going by releasing more and more acid.

Given that most digestion takes place in the small intestine, cecum and large colon, none of which are acid-secreting viscera, I find that difficult to believe. (Leaving aside the previously mentioned fact that acid secretion is pretty much occurring on a continuous level in the glandular portion of the stomach any road.)


--The digestion gets so inefficient that despite the excess acid, the food starts stalling and putrefying in the gut, which means it produces even MORE acid.


One. more.time.
The stomach is the only place acid is produced, and that is neutralized in the proximal small intestine.


--The acid level becomes so overwhelmingly high that you have an ulcerated horse in extreme pain who's hardly getting any nutrients from his diet.

Got proof?

So according to that theory, you have two options for treatment:treat the digestive system so as to dissolve that mucosal lining and thereby restore the status quo (that's the herbal approach),

Dissolve the mucosal lining? Sounds like a recipe for protein losing enteropathy.


or manually lower the level of stomach acid by shutting off acid pumps (that's GastroGard).

"Manually"???




So...that's my story. Take it or leave it.

I'll leave it, thanks.

I'm not saying there isn't an herbal preparation out there that might be effective in treatment of EGUS, but I am saying that your "explanation" is way off base.

[mypaintwattie]

Although I never had my horse scoped, she had all the signs of having an ulcer- girthy, pinned ears back, grouchy when you touched her sides, cribber, hard to keep weight on, ect. I talked with my vet and he suggested trying her on zantac.

I have her on a daily dose of generic ranitidine, aloe vera juice, Platinum Performance (has fiber and bio-sponge), alfalfa mix pellets, and probios. She has made a complete turnaround, she is not as girthy, I can touch her sides, and she has gained and maintained weight. I plan on keeping her on this diet because it has worked!

[LaraNSpeedy]

WOW thanks everyone.

I think that I am going to up the amount of alfalfa he gets and add the aloe because I was told that actually by the lady from Luna Tunes 7 years ago when I went to a clinic with her.

The Platinum Performance I used to give but cannot find someone here to get it from - does someone have a link of a place to order it?

Last question:
Gastrix, Ulcer Guard, Omeprazole, Gastroguard - someone mentioned a new product by Red Cell today at a competition we were at...? Which of these are best for healing the ulcers and then what is the best economical supplement to give as a prevent?

I also give him Omegas and Probios. By the way. He was on a daily wormer too but that was stopped. That was because of his weight issues. But my vet says he looks a million times better than when he saw him last time.

One thing too I really was unhappy about - I like my vet a lot but he said to the owners - warned them that all the ulcer care may not change his cranky behavior. And you know - he was on the track 7 years - he is a cribber but I think from working with him daily and training him - this horse's underlying personality is sweet not cranky so I am hoping for a real change and it being really positive.

[whbar158]

I was working with a horse recently that seemed like he had ulcers and we had some compounded omeprazole around and tried it. In just a few doses it seemed to be working. Regardless of whatever was going on the horse started behaving better. I know people say it doesn't work as well, but I think for people on a budget its a good way to go.

[Safety_Alter]

Considering the barrage of PM's I've gotten that I don't have the time to reply to, I thought I'd post the answers to some questions I keep getting.

Ghazzu, I'm not here to defend the kooky logic. I'm not a vet and I don't play one on TV. I specifically said that it was unscientific and anecdotal in every way, so I don't know what exactly your point was in taking my post apart with scientific logic (other than to have a good time "humiliating" someone who already agreed with you that it's all nutty). But nutty or not, my horse is fine and there's absolutely no other explanation for the turnaround besides this herbal treatment..

And speaking of not being a vet, I am NOT comfortable releasing the dosages or details of the treatment plan. This is obviously not a scientifically proven treatment plan, I am not a vet (for the millionth time), and this is a litigation-happy world we live in. I sure as heck wouldn't put a bunch of herbs down my horse's throat based on something someone said on the Internet, but somebody will be that gullible and I don't care to be responsible for the results, even if they end up being great results. If you care to get a holistic vet involved, this should be plenty enough info for them to go on.

The herbs supplied were by the company Standard Process, a brand that is only available through chiropractic and other holistic practitioners. Anyone familiar with Standard Process supps can easily identify the two most relevant products in their line for this sort of treatment. They are very popular with human ulcer patients as well. I will say that the products used were *not* part of Standard Process new line of equine products, which I didn't even know existed until about a month ago. For the first dose, I did have to shoot the stuff down my horse's throat with applesauce, but only because he was totally off his grain by that point. By the next meal he was wolfing down anything I'd put in front of him, and he gladly at the herbs right off his food.

I didn't go with herbs for monetary reasons. My horse is insured and I could have just as easily written up a claim for GastroGard. In fact, that would have been about $100 less than the herbal treatment. And the vet who dispensed the herbal treatment certainly agreed that GastroGard would fix the problem in the short term, and she certainly agreed that 1/4 tube of UlcerGard on stressful occasions was an excellent idea.

Ghazzu, care to pick that one apart again? Have fun. Like I said, I am defenseless if you care to pick up your Science Gun and shoot.

[Auventera Two]

Generic omeprazole is not something I'd trust either. It's manufactured in bulk in China and does not have the coating that gets it through the stomach and into the intestines where it can be absorbed into the blood stream. Stomach acid destroys the omeprazole. Gastrogard is patented because of the coating system they use to get the drug through the stomach. So sure you might pay 1/10th the cost, but how much of that drug is actually getting to your horse? And one study showed that generic omeprazole formulations contained only a percentage of the claimed drug.

I'm familiar with the lunatunes site, but I have a problem with it, because her horse was never scoped. She claims all these treatment regimes but she didn't even know that her horse did in fact have lesions. Since there's no proof her horse actually had ulcers, I can't trust what she puts out there as a treatment.

Life is too damned precious to fiddle around with a sprinkle of this and a twinkle of that and mix it all up with a pinch of this and a touch of that. Give me science any day. People will fork out a thousand bucks for a vacation or new saddle or any other type of medical treatment you can imagine, but they want to treat ulcers with the cheapest and most unscientifically proven method available. Why is that? :confused: Just pay the money and be happy its only 800 or 1200 bucks! It could be a lot worse.

Cheaper is not always better. I'm all about cost effectiveness but certain things you can't skimp on, and this is one of them.

[Ghazzu]

As I said, I'm perfectly willing to believe there is an herbal compounded mixture that will alleviate ulcers.

However, since there are a lot of folks who read this, I figured why disseminate way off base "explanations" of GI physiology?

Sorry; it's the professor in me.

[LaraNSpeedy]

I was so excited and got links to get a lot of these supplements to try and the horse colicked and died this morning.

I am devestated for the little girl who owned him.

Vet said it was a severe, violent type of twisted gut colic that he thinks probably started out from too much air in his stomache due to his cribbing and it got into his intestines and he rolled - unfortunately while I was asleep. I woke up this morning and went out early to feed and he was already barely alive.

This horse had the worst life until we got him. He was on the track 7 years always in a 10x10 and I am not a race-hater - I just know the track he was at and the trainer who had him and I know he just was used and used and never loved at all in any way - not even as a commodity.

And then the period of time between racing and when we found him - he looked so horrible when we got him - but everything we did this last year - he should have looked a lot better so I had him vetted again and the vet said - he really just has severe ulcers. I used GUT and Ulcer Guard and probios and omegas - etc - and he got better and prettier but he still had a lot of ulcer pain. I just wanted to heal him and then try to manage them. And also not spend $1200 a month to do it. This horse was 16.3 and a truly beautiful conformation for hunters - the first show she took him to - he only wanted to walk in circles and she was so frustrated but it was an indoor and we think that was the problem because after that he was great at all the outdoor arenas - but at that first show he won grand champion in the hunter in hand classes for typeyness and the judge said he is so beautiful. He won and imagine how fabulous he would have looked with the ulcers healed up and in full bloom?

But its all over now. I am so broken hearted for this young girl. SHe was really looking forward to the shows this year and he and she were such a good team together. And we were all endeared to give him the love he had never had before.

=(

[gabz]

OH NO! What a terrible ending. That poor horse. And the young lady that owned him.

Many cyber hugs to all involved.

[slpeders]

my condolences to you and the horse's owner. I am thankful you started the thread though -- it has offered me some great options for helping my mare. So even if you couldn't help the horse you wanted to, perhaps your thread will help others.

[horseluver1]

hugs to you and the young girl who loved her horse...so sorry.

[Little Indian]

Have you thought of Succeed? Unlike ulcerguard or gastroguard which is just a hind gut buffer, Succeed lines the entire gastro-intestine system from front to back. It'll clear up ulcers and help the horse use the nutrients in its food better. And a 30 day supply costs about the same as an 8 day supply of Ulcer-Guard.