Quiet for Hunting means...what? [Archive]

GettingBack

Jan. 8, 2009, 09:10 PM

I spoke with a wonderful lady who has a horse for sale that I am interested in. The majority of her experience with him has been as a foxhunter. She says he is quiet, stands at checkpoints, is not lazy (goes first flight), but if she wants to hilltop she can check him easily and he will stay with the hilltoppers. He doesn't spook or do anything silly, but he can pull a bit in a plain snaffle (so she upped the ante on him). Hunts without preparation or "medicinals", comes right off the trailer and jumps a coop without blinking an eye.

He sounds like an absolutely fabulous horse to hunt on, but I have no experience with hunting beyond longing to do so and living quite far from any hunts. What does quiet as a hunter really mean?

I ask that question because quiet to a show hunter and quiet to an eventer are two totally different things, so I don't really understand how quiet to a foxhunter works :)

Hope it's not an entirely silly question!

SteeleRdr

Jan. 8, 2009, 09:20 PM

Well it can also mean different things from hunter to foxhunter. Though, usually a foxhunter that is quiet is just that, overall quiet. I did have one horse though that was quiet as possible out hunting, but was a bit hot in the ring, so I always put him in the jumper ring. He was still quiet, as in no spook and would sit around all day long, but I wouldn't call him the steady strided show hunter.

All my others though that I consider quiet foxhunters adjust to new surroundings well, can hop off the trailer just about anywhere and go around like a saint. One that I consider quiet in the hunt field, is even MORE so in the ring. Meaning...crop, spurs and all my power to keep him moving around an 8 fence hunter course!

I have actually found that most "quiet" show hunters DO NOT do well out hunting, but most hunt horses remain fairly quiet in other environments.

GettingBack

Jan. 8, 2009, 09:23 PM

Ah yes, I misspoke in my first post - this horse is a foxhunter.

Thank you so much for your reply - she says he's quiet in the ring too - but again, quiet is relative, isn't it? :)

I would love to have a horse who had that possibility, as I do have friends that hunt that have invited me, but I'd have to travel to do so, so it wouldn't be his number one job.

Equibrit

Jan. 8, 2009, 09:25 PM

For the most part it means he won't loose the plot when in a throng of flying hoofs and mud clods!

GettingBack

Jan. 8, 2009, 10:10 PM

*laughing* So he'll likely be fine with ring-birds and "barn dogs" as well then :)

It's my hope to just have a calm, sane horse that can do a little of everything - including hunt eventually if I can make it to one!

kt-rose

Jan. 8, 2009, 10:13 PM

My horse that hunts quietly is asleep everywhere else...:)...

Painted Wings

Jan. 8, 2009, 11:24 PM

Quiet for a foxhunter is probably dead to a showhunter or an eventer. My horse events asleep, goes cross country and stadium on a loopy rein with lots of leg and still cannot be described as quiet in the hunt field.

Foxtrot's

Jan. 9, 2009, 12:58 AM

Sounds like a dream come true - hope he is just that. Hard to find.

LookinSouth

Jan. 9, 2009, 05:45 AM

My first few hunts I rode my friends 6 yr old QH that had a season of 1st flight down in MD.

I took him in hilltoppers....he literally would snooze during the checks and when the field took off at a brisk canter in a field I had to actually give him a kick to get him to catch up. I've never had the pleasure of riding a horse that when a field of 10 + horses takes off for a run in a field would prefer to stay back and WALK until asked to go. That to me is quiet for hunting. The entire hunt I trotted and cantered with a loop in my reins and the horse could careless whether I was right behind the master or at the very back of the field.

The strange thing is the horse wasn't dead in eventing or dressage and he was perfectly lively to ridefor the most part. Didn't require a ton of leg in or out of the ring. When out trail riding he did like to keep up with my horse but I think that was because he had some bonding issues, they lived together.

Hunting was just very uneventful to him. I don't think that is the norm for most horses.

Thomas_1

Jan. 9, 2009, 06:02 AM

It means sensible and remains controllable and well mannered when there's a high energy environement. Not hyper manic when it gets first sight of a pack of hounds on a trail and not bonkers when you've a good long gallop with a load of others.

What I call a perfect hunter.

strawberry roan

Jan. 9, 2009, 06:46 AM

If you can, hunt the horse and see if that is the sort of quiet he really is and the sort of quiet you really want. :) I bought a "hunts on the buckle" and my mistake was not trying her first out hunting. No idea whose buckle she hunts on! But I am still working on her, trying to get her to that point. I have a very quiet foxhunter who is fab--definitely classify him as a quiet hunter. :)

Jleegriffith

Jan. 9, 2009, 07:37 AM

That is a good question and I suppose we might all interpret what defines quiet differently. I would call the horse I am hunting quiet but sometimes I wonder if my version of quiet is different than others. I like a horse with a big engine but in order for me to classify them as quiet they need to have sense in high energy situations.

For me quiet when hunting means stands at checks, doesn't get panicked when staff comes by, can go on a big gallop run and then check quietly, can behave when other horses are acting out around him, no bucking/rearing/spooking and no jiggy behavior and gets off the trailer w/o a care in the world. Can handle the open fields and the woods without worrying where they are in the group. Jumps smoothly without need of encouragment and no playing around before or after the jumps. I would not say they need to be ridden in a snaffle to be "quiet" but a snaffle ride typically means the horse has a soft mouth and is rateable.

The horse I hunt is quiet in the ring but not kick along quiet and not kick along quiet in the hunt field. He is a tb so he has a big stride and lots of get up and go but I can ask him to tone it down and he will. His brain is top notch and he has no bad behavior. I would call that quiet and the fact that I might not ride all week (um..this weather is awful!) and can show up at the hunt and not worry about him acting silly:lol:

He is one of the horses I have been bringing along for CANTER MA and we always thought he would be the ultimate fox hunter. He is also super on trails and loves to event.

GettingBack

Jan. 9, 2009, 08:05 AM

That is very much how this person described this horse to me - that he has an engine, can keep up easily with the pack in first flight and is light and responsive off the leg in the ring (doesn't know a *whole* lot in the ring, but figures it out quickly) but that he does stand quietly at checks, doesn't mind when the field passes him if he is to hilltop that day, doesn't do anything goofy or stupid and though he pulls a bit on a good run, he doesn't jig/spook/attempt to pass the field etc. In the ring or on trails ordinarily he is ridden in a plain snaffle. I did expect that he would hunt in something stronger (I do have friends that hunt and I've done my homework :) ) so that doesn't bother me.

We're trying to work out some details so that I can try him, to me he sounds perfect! That is a scary thought (as in the past I have always had the dysfunctional and/or green horses - and I'm ready for something sane!) - me, having a sane and quiet horse!! (In a very very good way - if he truly is the way as described, I'm in love! My husband may not get me back!)

flash1

Jan. 9, 2009, 08:37 AM

One of mine will hop off the trailer..go anywhere in the field, stand quietly, jump anything, let the hounds roam around under his legs....but get him in a ring...and he's a totally different animal ( we do jumpers)

Your new prospect sounds awesome.

Beverley

Jan. 9, 2009, 09:27 AM

Tell ya what, if the horse is 'quiet' as described as the seller, just send him to me.:)

That description fits my neat old qh that I just put down before Xmas due to infirmities of old age. When I got him at age 12, my then-3rd grade son had a blast hunting him- he would pack the inexperienced- or I could get on him, and go whip in, and gallop on down to as trappy as a fence as I've ever jumped, no problem. Quiet = not 'dead,' but so mellow and sensible as to stand still on loose rein while hounds curl up and nap under his belly.

Elghund2

Jan. 9, 2009, 10:00 AM

Quiet is definitely a sliding scale. B will stand perfectly still at a check. When he is in the field he runs hard to make sure he keeps up. No gaps allowed. When I whipped off of him and we were standing in a sunny spot, he fell asleep. So, quiet depends.

In the ring, he is a slug. I did some lessons on him this summer and he trotted up to a small vertical, hoisted himself over and landed in a heap on the other side. This is the same horse that will effortlessly clear a 3' 6" coup.

On the trail you have to constantly kick to keep him forward.

Yet my wife will complain how much he's pulling on her when we hack out together.

I suspect that most field hunters would seem extremely forward to someone that shows.

Benson

Jan. 9, 2009, 10:05 AM

Hahaha, GB, I thought that you were looking at Jlee's CANTER horse to buy for Hunting!

Good luck trying him out. It's a good time of the year to check out a horse that Hunts, as they are pretty fit (if hunted weekly) and ready to rock n' roll. The quiet ones are still standing quietly, the insane ones are getting more silly as the fitness level increases.

merrygoround

Jan. 9, 2009, 10:18 AM

For the most part it means he won't loose the plot when in a throng of flying hoofs and mud clods!

Was that "lose the plot", "lose the pilot", or both? :)

LookinSouth

Jan. 9, 2009, 10:23 AM

Part of the problem with the term quiet is that alot of people (including seasoned horse dealers/sellers) take that term to mean lazy, dead to the leg and nearly half dead.

A friend of mine when recently horse shopping had a heck of time (and some interesting reactions) when she described her ideal horse as "Forward but Quiet."
One of the sellers told her ....there is no such thing!:)

When I hear the term quiet; I always want to know quiet in what sense? I know plenty of dead to leg, lazy as heck horses that will spook if a leaf blows the wrong way...to me that's not quiet...it's just lazy:)

Her saying quiet but forward; makes perfect sense to me and to her because that is exactly what my old TB was like that she leased for awhile. Very forward moving, but light on the aids, incredibly easy to rate and could be galloped in a group with literally a halter on. However, the horse was no slow poke and he did like to keep up. But if you told him NO and held him back he would do so, and do so calmly. He was also bombproof and unreactive in situations that other horses would be jigging, blowing their tops, rearing,tossing their heads etc.. He would be alert and alive but never did any of the above antics. He would have been the perfect hunt horse! Can keep up with the field but 100% controllable and sane in all situations.

GettingBack

Jan. 9, 2009, 10:26 AM

That is indeed what I am looking for - I don't mind going faster, but I'd like it to be on my terms thankyouverymuch and not accompanied by sideways ducking, spooking at "horseeatinginvisibletomanghosts" etc. I'd like to be able to hack out without dying...that sort of thing. *laughing*

nightsong

Jan. 10, 2009, 10:20 AM

You've got a LOT of variables here: definition of "quiet," different RIDERS, different situations, different levels of fitness, feeding regimens, anount of turnout, etc. You've just got to TRY him and see how he FEELS to YOU.

GettingBack

Jan. 10, 2009, 10:40 AM

Of course, nightsong *smile* That's always the case, isn't it?

But most disciplines have a general way of describing a horse that would be different from another - for instance, if I were looking at a WP horse who was "quiet" I would imagine that he would also be too quiet for hunters, because a dead quiet WP horse is likely to be moving almost totally backwards! (No offense to any WP riders intended - but it's SLOW! :) )

I am going to go look at him and ride him - he sounds like a dream. I'm actually very excited about it!

Jaegermonster

Jan. 10, 2009, 04:16 PM

You never know how a horse will hunt until you HUNT HIM. I don't care what discipline he is currently participating in or how quiet he is in lessons or the show ring, or on the trail or whatever.
Some of the nicest show hunters and the quietest wp horses turn into complete fruit loops in the hunt field, and in all honesty some of the nicest field hunters hate showing. So you never know for sure. And even then one hunt isn't enough if the horse isn't an experienced hunter.

GettingBack

Jan. 10, 2009, 05:58 PM

This is actually the converse. He IS an experienced hunter. I am not - hence the question - I've ridden in other disciplines where quiet means varying things. :)

Jaegermonster

Jan. 10, 2009, 06:06 PM

Quiet for hunting to me means that he will stand quietly at checks or when asked, and that he is rateable in company, and doesn't pull or root. An extra bonus is if he is one of those who is happy to go first field today and hilltop tomorrow. One of the grand dames of our hunt always says that "The mark of a good hunt horse is they will go where you put them"

Jleegriffith

Jan. 11, 2009, 01:06 PM

I know I had been told it takes at least 4-5 times to know if you truly have a quiet hunt horse. There are so many factors but I do think you can get a good idea on the type of brain a horse has based on trail rides, hunter paces and things like that. I couldn't gurantee my horses would hunt but I had a feeling they would. I could tell you which one's I know wouldn't hunt even if I find them quiet in the ring.

The things that tend to set most of them off are the reversing of fields, the sound of the horn and hounds, the hounds crowding around them or the fast stop and go. We tend to run really hard and then stop. Then go again and then stop. I think it takes a horse with a really good brain to be able to handle the quick stop and go pace.

So if we are talking about one of these truly quiet horses in the hunt field say a tb that is quiet but forward what price are they going to run you?

Bogie

Jan. 11, 2009, 01:38 PM

This would also be my definition.

My Trakehener was quiet in the hunt field but not dead to the leg. He was just . . . sensible. He went where I asked (first flight, hilltopper or babysitting a new horse), traveled at the speed I asked, and didn't spook at anything or get upset when other horses misbehaved. He stood like a statue at the check and hunted bitless. I rarely carried a crop (maybe a dressage whip in the ring) and never wore spurs.

He was very tuned into my aids and was not at all dead in the ring. He preferred hunting to anything else we tried, but he was just an all-round sensible horse.

If this horse is as described he's probably a keeper!

That is a good question and I suppose we might all interpret what defines quiet differently. I would call the horse I am hunting quiet but sometimes I wonder if my version of quiet is different than others. I like a horse with a big engine but in order for me to classify them as quiet they need to have sense in high energy situations.

For me quiet when hunting means stands at checks, doesn't get panicked when staff comes by, can go on a big gallop run and then check quietly, can behave when other horses are acting out around him, no bucking/rearing/spooking and no jiggy behavior and gets off the trailer w/o a care in the world. Can handle the open fields and the woods without worrying where they are in the group. Jumps smoothly without need of encouragment and no playing around before or after the jumps. I would not say they need to be ridden in a snaffle to be "quiet" but a snaffle ride typically means the horse has a soft mouth and is rateable.

The horse I hunt is quiet in the ring but not kick along quiet and not kick along quiet in the hunt field. He is a tb so he has a big stride and lots of get up and go but I can ask him to tone it down and he will. His brain is top notch and he has no bad behavior. I would call that quiet and the fact that I might not ride all week (um..this weather is awful!) and can show up at the hunt and not worry about him acting silly:lol:

He is one of the horses I have been bringing along for CANTER MA and we always thought he would be the ultimate fox hunter. He is also super on trails and loves to event.

LookinSouth

Jan. 11, 2009, 01:54 PM

.

So if we are talking about one of these truly quiet horses in the hunt field say a tb that is quiet but forward what price are they going to run you?

Well I can tell you that the horses that met the criteria when my friend was shopping were all from 10k-20k and that was just what was in her price range and I can tell you they were far and few between. They were all TB's or TBX's but the horse she DID buy was a full QH.
These were all horses that were supposedly very quiet, easy and safe to ride but forward movers.Horses sane enough for a timid, older adult rider to canter and gallop behind other horses out trail riding or hunter pacing. A horse that would be happy to leave the group to go around a jump etc..

But when we went to look at a few of them they didn't fit the bill. One was way too lazy and stopped at a x rail 3 times. We ended up going all the way down to MD to get this hunt horse. Funny thing was she wasn't looking for a hunt horse specifically, she's never hunted herself. But this horse was the only one that truly met her criteria.

I personally think the hardest thing to get a horse used to in the hunt field is always staying behind other horses regardless of the speed, rating to a jump when there are other horses who have already taken the jump and galloping along and then of course standing still at checks which can be anywhere from 3 minutes to 20 minutes.
I know some of this can be experienced during a hunter pace but it's not quite the same.The groups are much smaller for the most part and usually everyone takes turn being in the lead etc....you also have alot more control over what pace you will be traveling at. Of course there are no hounds either.:)

The hardest thing for my horse has been learning to stay behind the other horses. He tends to get quick/strong. He is better in 1st flight where we are moving at a good pace but he still has his moments. His first 3 hunts were a nightmare. Doing hunting clinics and lots of riding in groups behind others improved this issue alot but we are still not quite where I would like to be.
The great thing about hunting is it is so much fun to practice your skills!! What's more fun than cantering/galloping and jumping in the fields and woods with a group of friends?

LookinSouth

Jan. 11, 2009, 02:01 PM

The horse I hunt is quiet in the ring but not kick along quiet and not kick along quiet in the hunt field. He is a tb so he has a big stride and lots of get up and go but I can ask him to tone it down and he will. His brain is top notch and he has no bad behavior. I would call that quiet and the fact that I might not ride all week (um..this weather is awful!) and can show up at the hunt and not worry about him acting silly:lol:

He is one of the horses I have been bringing along for CANTER MA and we always thought he would be the ultimate fox hunter. He is also super on trails and loves to event.

this sounds to me like a truly "quiet but forward" horse. I dont' think they are easy to find...at all. They are rare and worth their weight in gold.

Jaegermonster

Jan. 11, 2009, 03:37 PM

my mare that I am whipping in off of is like that. I appreciate it so much after hunting her mother for years and getting my butt kicked every time I hunted.
She has been coming along wonderfully, and it has gone up another notch. After boxing day it seems like a light bulb went off and she has it all figured out. We were hand galloping along today on a nice loose rein, I could do my job and she was doing hers and it was awesome.

Jaegermonster

Jan. 11, 2009, 03:45 PM

So if we are talking about one of these truly quiet horses in the hunt field say a tb that is quiet but forward what price are they going to run you?

Seriously? A real hunt horse that does what you are asking about, that has hunted-and I mean really hunted-like a couple of seasons at least and can be considered a made hunt horse is mid five figures easy.

I had my mare appraised for her insurance last year and almost choked at what they came back with. But real foxhunters will pay real money for a nice hunt horse. They are worth their weight in gold.

IrishRydr

Jan. 13, 2009, 11:38 PM

I totally agree with Jaegermonster on the mid-five-figure price range!!!

xeroxchick

Jan. 14, 2009, 07:03 AM

I agree as well. If they have held up long enough and have the mind to be a made hunter they are worth it.

xeroxchick

Jan. 14, 2009, 07:11 AM

But when we went to look at a few of them they didn't fit the bill. One was way too lazy and stopped at a x rail 3 times.

One of the hardest things about finding a good hunt horse is that you can't tell how they are in the hunt field unless you hunt them. Trying them in an arena or on the trail just doesn't tell you a lot. I have one who is a hot and frisky ride at home - no one would believe how quiet and workmanlike he is in the hunt field. Another is sooooo lazy at home and actually hard to ride because one must kick him along, but he has plenty of energy in the field. The other is spooky at home but a perfect guy in the field. They just know the difference and it's hard for them to take much very seriously when not doing their job.

SteeleRdr

Jan. 14, 2009, 11:40 AM

One of the hardest things about finding a good hunt horse is that you can't tell how they are in the hunt field unless you hunt them. Trying them in an arena or on the trail just doesn't tell you a lot. I have one who is a hot and frisky ride at home - no one would believe how quiet and workmanlike he is in the hunt field. Another is sooooo lazy at home and actually hard to ride because one must kick him along, but he has plenty of energy in the field. The other is spooky at home but a perfect guy in the field. They just know the difference and it's hard for them to take much very seriously when not doing their job.

People make this comment to us all the time about not knowing how the horses are in the field, because most of the time people are looking to purchase during the "off-season." However, ours are thankfully well documented on film to have been out hunting, and are also well known by others in the field for "references" from the masters, etc.

However, I would shy away from anyone selling a foxhunter, who during the hunt season, wouldn't offer to take a potential buyer out. We've had serious buyers before and offered for them to come hunting with us, as long as they paid their own cap fee. Actually sold a very nice horse to a lady in Michigan, whose trainer came and hunted the horse with us. He's now a Master's horse, and also dabbles in the jumpers with her grandson, I believe.

He was QUIET!!! Jumped everything, not dead to the leg, was the local schooling jumper champion during the summer, and was just a comfortable ride! Everything described by Jlee and more! He sold in $20K range with 3 seasons of hunting. (BTW, he was an OTTB, nice topline, but Dr. Allen did say his conformation looked like he was put together by committee)

LookinSouth

Jan. 15, 2009, 09:12 AM

One of the hardest things about finding a good hunt horse is that you can't tell how they are in the hunt field unless you hunt them. Trying them in an arena or on the trail just doesn't tell you a lot. .

this is true. problem is the horse she was trying at that time wasn't a hunt horse. It was a seasoned low level eventer that had consistent top scores in Area I. So stopping at a X rail multiple times whether in or out of the ring was completely unacceptable. And this was with the owner riding:yes:

Personally, if I was shopping for a hunt horse and expecting to spend mid-high five figures I would hope that said horse would also be useful in the ring i.e. suitable for dressage, hunters, jumpers, eventing etc... Granted none of these might be their forte but I would hope I would at least be able to take the horse to a lesson or show in one of these disciplines and not be laughed out of the ring:winkgrin:. I would not only want to take the horse hunting but also ride it alone in the open and see what it can do o/f in the ring.

Jaegermonster

Jan. 15, 2009, 10:21 AM

most of the mid five figure real field hunters can do just that.

IrishWillow

Jan. 16, 2009, 05:48 PM

The hunt is a pretty scary endeavor for most horses. I would say a quiet hunt horse is one that handles the "ups and downs" of the hunt without dramatics. I have a "quiet hunt horse" .. He will gallop quietly with the group on a loose rein, and if we suddenly have to pull up for a gallop and be very still and quiet.. he'll pop a back foot and hang out. So, I would say thats a quiet hunt horse.. one that doesnt "feed" off the other horses and constantly dance around like crazy or something.

crosscreeksh

Jan. 17, 2009, 10:23 PM

Some years ago my daughter had a foxhunter who was just perfect for her. Rode in a snaffle and saddle - no other equipment needed. Dead steady for everything...lope down to a 4 foot oxer in the stadium - you swore he wasn't "awake enough", but he'd just tuck and go. However if you tried to flat him - ugh! After one full circle either way you needed dynamite to make a second one!! But who cared?? He was a SUPER foxhunter!! If the owner the OP mentions has more I'll take a trailer load!!!

wateryglen

Jan. 18, 2009, 07:32 AM

Quiet for me means......that there's almost no sounds coming from them & me when we're hunting......:winkgrin:.....no squealing, thudding, grunting, neighing, farting, snorting, cussing and most of all...no breaking sounds!! :yes: and no screaming sounds!!
Laughing sounds good - crying/yelling not so good! If you hear bad words coming from either of us = bad. If you hear "Whoa dammit" or "Oh no!" or "Uh oh" or "Oh shit" you can bet one of us isn't being quiet!! :D

If I'm smiling when I come in and am in one piece? = Good quiet fieldhunter!

cavaliermax

Jan. 18, 2009, 09:33 PM

Elghund2

Jan. 19, 2009, 06:29 AM

I think everyone has had that "NO BRAKES" time.

Earlier this season I had my new hunter out. Its his first season and he's hilltopping. We get on a run and we are at the back of the second flight. The run continues and goes over the crest of a hill and then down the hill. That's when that racing experience kicked in.

Since the hill side was wet, my options were limited to apologizing to the master after we blew past the second flight and first flight. It would have made a great stretch run call.

Snow Princess

Jan. 19, 2009, 08:31 AM

Quiet for hunting means it stands quietly amongst the group while i receive my stirrup cup and chit chat with friends :D

GettingBack

Feb. 2, 2009, 09:27 AM

Thanks for everyone's replies! I rode him this weekend and he was absolutely brilliant - so he's coming home with me! He helped me get over some fears that I had due to some riding accidents earlier this year, rode past a ton of scary stuff, and was totally non-reactive to me even though I'm sure I was communicating sheer and absolute terror to him (the accidents that I had earlier this year caused even mounting to be absolutely fear provoking!)

I'll post pictures when I have good ones, but honestly, I'm so thrilled with this horse!