Can anyone recommend a Stallion?

[bernerz]

Hi everyone, I am looking to breed my mare to a nice Black, Warmblood, Stallion.
She is a Black, Perch/TB and a stunning horse if I do say so myself.
I am having her sport horse tested this year, and expect her to pass.
Any ways, I am open to most any Warmblood breed, though I prefer the heavier warmbloods such as the Dutch or Hannoverian.
Temperment and trainability is most important besides being a true black.
She is a maiden mare, and this will be the 1st mare I have bred. So any advice is welcomed. I have many years expereince and have owned a few foals straight from weaning.
So please if you know of a nice, black warmblood stallion with an excellent temperment please let me know. I prefer one around 16hh, not the big 17 +.
Also I'd prefer a stud fee around $500 or $700.
Thanks! :D

[Kaelurus]

Hi Bernerz,

Take a look at Juan Valdez Carolina. He is a Selle Francais stallion by Bonjour, located in Ocala. If heavy-boned, athletic, and black is what you're looking for, then he's your man. He also has a wonderful temperment that he tends to pass to his babies.

www.juanvaldezcar.com (http://www.juanvaldezcar.com)

www.3hequestriancenter.com (http://www.3hequestriancenter.com)

[Ambrey]

If you're "related" to the horse in your post, get the webmaster to re-ratio the photo on the front page, it's wonky ;)

[Dressurfan]

I recommend Donarweiss for your mare. He is actually not big boned but he is elegant and light on his feet. I think this would be a better cross for your half percheron mare than another heavy horse. He is black with lots of chrome! Many of his offspring are also black. He is a hanoverian and is approved RPSI and was approved Hanoverian this year.

[cheekyhorse]

have a look at my stallion Pacific. He sounds like exactly what you are looking for.:) And his stud fee is reduced if booked before Jan 31st!

[Kaelurus]

If you're "related" to the horse in your post, get the webmaster to re-ratio the photo on the front page, it's wonky ;)

Lol, I am not "related" so to speak, but I do train at that farm. The ratio on the website unfortunately is related to the settings ofthe viewing screen. I have suggested the same thing before, but it only shows up like that on some screens.

[downthecenterlinetheycome]

Maybe Redwine, though his fee is $1000.

[foreward!]

How about this guy? My mare is in foal to him right now with a due a mid to end April date. I think he is one hot horse. :yes:

http://www.riveroaksfarm.net/Lexington.html

He was just featured in the USDF Connections mag. in the Breed Spotlight article.

[bernerz]

Thanks everyone I will check out all of them.
Ambrey, do you see my profile picture is that what you mean? I don't see it! ha ha ha Help! New to all this. ha ha

[RogersChapelFarm]

Your price range will be tough. Thats my dilemma this year. I know Donarweiss would be good but he's $1500 and may have collection/shipping fees too.(not sure)

The best buy I have found is Rodioso if you book early(before April 15) his fee is discounted from $1500 to $1000 AND that includes the first collection and the first shipment which the others often do not. He is a good solidly built Oldenburg, black and yet still only 16.1 I am looking at him for 2 mares I have. I bred to another son of Rohdiamont (Routinier) but he is not black. I do however love his disposition and liked the cross for my mares. I bred 2 to Routinier before.

She also offers a return breeding and mutiple breeding discount and will let you add them on to early discount(good news if you plan to breed again)

He is said to have an excellent disposition and competes at FEI dressage. He is approved
Verband der Züchter des Oldenbuger Pferdes (GOV)
Rheinland Pfalz-Saar International (Zweibrücken)
Oldenburg Registry North America
International Sporthorse Registry
http://www.rodioso.com/

If you like a Friesan see the deal offered on Bente D
SPECIALS FOR 2009 STUD FEE 375.00 and $250 collection and container-i think you may pay shipping fee still http://www.equinenow.com/horse-ad-134775

[Dancinglite2]

I second Redwine.

[Ambrey]

Lol, I am not "related" so to speak, but I do train at that farm. The ratio on the website unfortunately is related to the settings ofthe viewing screen. I have suggested the same thing before, but it only shows up like that on some screens.

That means the page is poorly coded.

He is lovely, though :) My only thought was that he didn't have the longest neck in the world, and the OP having a perch cross might want to choose something with a very graceful neck and a trim throatlatch.

[Ambrey]

Thanks everyone I will check out all of them.
Ambrey, do you see my profile picture is that what you mean? I don't see it! ha ha ha Help! New to all this. ha ha

LOL, no, sorry- the first webpage posted. Your profile photo is lovely :)

[Kaelurus]

Thank you Ambrey :-) I agree. I also prefer to see him bred to "lighter" types - he is very heavy boned, and tends to pass it to his offspring. But to some extent, its a matter of opinion, and some people prefer the heavier types. In any case, if someone requests "heavy" and black, I'm not going to pass up the chance to plug him ;-)

Also, the website is currently being re-worked by a different design co, so hopefully there will be a new site soon!

[Kaelurus]

Here's another thought for you, Bernerz:

Check out Icarus Carolina. He stands at Chadale Farms in NC. He is also Selle Francais, and black, but is much smaller, and very light boned. He would probably be a better cross for your mare (who is lovely, btw :)). He is better known as a jumper, but his babies are phenomenal movers, and make wonderful dressage horses.

www.chadalefarms.com (http://www.chadalefarms.com/)

[Ambrey]

Oh, that is good, I'm sure the new site will look good on everyone's computer. I confound everyone by also using an unusual browser on an unusual operating system- I'm the challenge to websites everywhere!

I love the heavier types! I just have a draft cross with a thick neck and throatlatch and know what a challenge it can be ;)

Just a note- I've never seen a friesian x perch x that I loved. There might be one out there, but I'm the "percheron x apologist extraordinaire" and if I don't love them I kind of doubt most people would ;)

[STF]

Any ways, I am open to most any Warmblood breed, though I prefer the heavier warmbloods such as the Dutch or Hannoverian.

This is kinda a sterotype.... there are Dutch and Hano approved stallions that favor a TB look these days. So, dont go based on breed or you will be very mislead.
;)

As for stallions for her to help give her a bit longer lines and more modern look and your limiting my options in black, but here it goes.......

Donnerwiess (one of my FAVORITE smaller stallions, was showing him to a friend today and the owner has really good deal on frozen semen for him).

Pacific (cheeky's stallion), lots of elastic movement and shoulder freedom. Really nice dressage guy, Id take him anyday in my barn.


Gatsby is another. Half TB on the dam line, under Seattle Slew with Gonzo on the top. His babies are turning out very nice.

Let me think of others. If you were not stuck on black, Id could give you more options.

[Ambrey]

STF, question- knowing the perch tendency toward a steep, short croup, would you suggest trying to stay with a stallion with a flatter croup?

eta. Hmmm, STF's stud is awfully nice! :eek:

[STF]

You know, both my dutch gelding and my hano mare have steep croups, and both can step under themselves very well. Im not against a steep croup as long as the power is there.
As for my guy, the neck set is not correct for a Perch type. Puerto throws thicker necks and bone, so would be counter productive or she would end up with a big thick tanky offspring, which would be super counter productive for what she wants. Not that I would stop her if she wanted to try it, but its up to her.

To the OP -
Another stallion I want you to look up is Sonntag Kind. He is a new boy, not many people know him. He is Sandro Hit x Donnerhall x Rubinstein and he is super modern, black, long legs, long lines, etc. I am going to breed one of my older/thicker types mares to him this spring after she foals.

[simon63]

Have you considered a Friesian? Not baroque, but sport predicate?

[tartanfarm]

Since cost is a major concern why don't you take a look at the different breed auctions. There are some very nice horses that a breeding can be picked up at a bargain.
I've had good luck and bad shipping semen across the border, so that also might be a consideration as well.

[FriesianX]

If you're willing to risk a bit of extra white color, take a look at my stallion. He's Friesian/Dutch WB cross, black and white pinto. The stud fee is a bit over your budget, but it includes the first collection, and if you knock that cost off, it is well within your budget.

He is AWS approved, 15.3, lovely mover, great semen quality, lots of bone, fab feet, great hindquarters, and a lovely temperment. He'll debut at the FEI levels this Spring. I like the heavier ones too, as long as they move lightly off the ground, they just feel like they are going to be sound so much longer!

[TouchstoneAcres]

I am planning to breed to a black Lipizzan in Holland. There are two blacks there and a gray who can produce black. They might be worth a look for you.
http://www.thafaloniestables.com/pageID_4696803.html

[oldenmare]

To the OP -

Just one thought - I don't see where you posted your mare's age (may have missed it) - but if she is still young, keep in mind that she may grow much more than you anticipate.

I know of a Perch/TB mare that at 4, was beautiful, solidly built but not large. By 7, she looked like a FULL LARGE Percheron. She has very large joints that have led to many soundness issues and at 15 now, she has been a pasture ornament for the last 3 years.

So - unless your mare is 7/older and you KNOW she's done growing - I would not recommend a heavier stallion for this cross.

FWIW..... just seeing too too too many babies these days that are too large too soon - and many having OCD issues b/c of it. Heart-breaking in some cases, fixable/operable in others.

[Eclectic Horseman]

I know that Negro's fee is higher than what you want to spend, but you can always dream!

http://www.hilltopfarminc.com/stallion_negro.html :sigh:

[anglotrak]

Take a look at Titulus. He is homozygous black.

[STF]

Re: The breed auction, read the fine lines.......

Some are the auction fee PLUS an extra booking fee to the stallion owner, then you also have to pay them for collection and then shipping.
So you may get a stallion fee for 500 to 800, but then some have a booking fee of 200 to 400 more on top of that, then add in the collection fee, from 150 to 300 ish, so you may be over your budget that the OP mentioned on her post.
Just make sure and read all of the details before bidding.

[Donatella]

How about this guy? My mare is in foal to him right now with a due a mid to end April date. I think he is one hot horse. :yes:

http://www.riveroaksfarm.net/Lexington.html

He was just featured in the USDF Connections mag. in the Breed Spotlight article.


This stallion was my first thought too. :yes::yes:

When you say hot you mean "great", yes, not hot temperament? Congrats on your due foal!

[Mardi]

Sorry if this was already mentioned...

the mare owner said that she was going to have her mare "sporthorse tested". I'm taking that to mean the mare will be tested with the hopes of being approved into a mare book of a registry ?

Then it may be a good idea for the mare owner be sure that the stallion she chooses is licensed/approved by the registry who approves/inspects her mare, so then foal can be elegible to be registered when the time comes.

[mjhco]

Take a look at the stallions listed here -- http://www.shnpayback.com

There are a variety of breeds offered. Some prices are quite good. Pay attention to the requirements of each.

[RiverOaksFarm]

Bernerz, feel free to email me if you'd like :) (I don't usually have much free time for bb's and might miss a PM.) I have the Elite Book Friesian Sporthorse stallion "Lexington" who a few people have recommended. Black, 16h, Approved for Breeding as both Friesian Sporthorse and American Warmblood. You can also see a video clip on my website of a very nice 1/4 Percheron colt, by Lexington.

:) gigha
RiverOaksFarmFL@aol.com

[STF]

Sorry if this was already mentioned...

the mare owner said that she was going to have her mare "sporthorse tested". I'm taking that to mean the mare will be tested with the hopes of being approved into a mare book of a registry ?

Then it may be a good idea for the mare owner be sure that the stallion she chooses is licensed/approved by the registry who approves/inspects her mare, so then foal can be elegible to be registered when the time comes.


yes, but also know that many stallions cross into other books, so even though one is not activated or licensed in one, the registry in question may accept the foal with an outside stallion fee. Always check with the registar on each stallion. Just FYI.:)

And being that this is a draft cross, she is very limited on her registry options. So AWS is really the only sport registry (unless there is some draft registry) she could go to. In that case, most all stallions are eligible for foal inspection. Lexington, included for those who are questioning that cross.

So, based on the mare eligibiltiy, which again, is pretty pretty much only AWS, she is open to whatever stallion she wants to breed, (pretty much!). ;)

[Ambrey]

ROF, is Lennox the 1/4 perch? He is stunning!

[FriesianX]

AWS is an obvious choice for the mare - but what about some of the Canadian registries? I notice the OP is in Canada, so that may open up a few other choices for his mare. AND it may also be worth looking at stallions in Canada. Shipping costs are much higher for shipping semen over the border, or at least, was more expensive a few years ago when I last did it:eek: Might be worth exploring spending a bit more on a nice stallion in Canada, and spending a bit less on FedEx;)

OP, if you are sure you want a black offspring, have you had your mare tested for color? If she's homozygous black, you have a wider range of choices than if she's Ee.

I noticed someone mentioned Bente D a few posts back - I've bred to him a couple of times now, not a Perchie cross, but I've had two VERY NICE foals. And the stallion owner is fabulous to work with.

[STF]

Im not sure of the CW and their draft % rule, not sure. Maybe someone here can chime in?
Either or, there is something out there for her options.

[jdeboer01]

Lexington is homozygous black. He will always throw black based foals -- no chestnut. If the OP's horse is black, the foal would be black. It couldn't be any other color.

J

[MaresNest]

My filly by Windfall CB (http://bredahldressage.com/windfall.html) is 3 and a half now! :) Windfall is a biggish guy... 17h, short back, good bone, muscular. His foals are known for being very sweet and having good gaits. He's out of the price range you listed, though.

[Ambrey]

Lexington is homozygous black. He will always throw black based foals -- no chestnut. If the OP's horse is black, the foal would be black. It couldn't be any other color.

J

But if her horse is homzygous black, she doesn't need to restrict herself to black horses- just non-agouti horses. Just sayin' ;)

[jdeboer01]

But if her horse is homzygous black, she doesn't need to restrict herself to black horses- just non-agouti horses. Just sayin' ;)

The OP didn't say her horse was homozygous black. I mentioned that Lexington was homozygous black in response to FriesianX's post about the OP getting her horse tested for the "e" factor. If the OP uses Lexington, there's no need to test, because any resulting foal out of her mare would be 100% black.

J

[Ambrey]

The OP didn't say her horse was homozygous black. I mentioned that Lexington was homozygous black in response to FriesianX's post about the OP getting her horse tested for the "e" factor. If the OP uses Lexington, there's no need to test, because any resulting foal out of her mare would be 100% black.

J

But the OP hasn't decided on a stallion, so testing for the e factor is still worthwhile as it would vastly open up her options. That's my point ;)

[foreward!]

This stallion was my first thought too. :yes::yes:

When you say hot you mean "great", yes, not hot temperament? Congrats on your due foal!


I do mean "Hot" as in a very nice looking Stallion, with a great athletic appearance. When I got my mare, she already in foal to him. She is 8.5 months along. With a mid to end April due date.

[jdeboer01]

But the OP hasn't decided on a stallion, so testing for the e factor is still worthwhile as it would vastly open up her options. That's my point ;)

Sure, but the OP wants a black foal. So even if her mare IS homozygous black, she STILL would need to know the agouti status of any chestnut she may breed to. Most chestnut stallion owners don't have that information off hand. And because she definitely wants a black foal, why risk breeding to a bay stallion, even if he's heterozygous? And same as with chestnut stallion owners, most bay stallion owners don't know if their stallion is homozygous or heterozygous for agouti. Her easiest and best bet is to breed to a homozygous black stallion. That's MY point. ;)

J

[FriesianX]

But the OP hasn't decided on a stallion, so testing for the e factor is still worthwhile as it would vastly open up her options. That's my point ;)


It was my point too ;)

[jdeboer01]

But the OP hasn't decided on a stallion, so testing for the e factor is still worthwhile as it would vastly open up her options. That's my point ;)

Considering what I previously posted about the agouti factor, HOW exactly does testing her own horse for Ee "vastly" open up her options?

[PaulaM]

I know you are probably pretty set on wanting to breed your mare, but may I please offer the suggestion to please don't do it. I bred my nice TB mare twice and ended up spending a lot of money and still ending up having to buy a horse to ride any way.

In the end, I spent over $ 50,000 into the 2 horses I did breed, a filly that I ended up giving away after over 30K into her. Find what you want in a horse and purchase it. There are a lot of good deals to be found out there especially in today's economy.

BTW, I notice you are from Hampton, lovely town. I am originally from Saint John and my aunt also breeds Bernese (she is still in New Brunswick)

[Ambrey]

Considering what I previously posted about the agouti factor, HOW exactly does testing her own horse for Ee "vastly" open up her options?

Because if she finds an ee horse without Agouti, she can breed to him.

Information, it's a great thing to have.

[jdeboer01]

Because if she finds an ee horse without Agouti, she can breed to him.


Yes, and the big word here is IF. I don't see many (any, actually) chestnut stallion owners who have the agouti status of their stallions listed. So, unless she can somehow find out that a chestnut stallion's sire and dam were BOTH BLACK, she would have to ask the stallion owners to send hair out for testing.

Like I said before, the simplest thing to do is to breed to a homozygous black stallion.

[Forte]

I am going to second Paula's opinion and say that you should not breed this mare. I am concerned about the fact that you say you only have $500 to put towards the stud fee. What if the foal gets sick? Vet bills can pile up very fast, will you be able to provide the mare and foal will the care they need if something goes wrong? The economy is just terrible right now, and there are many decent horses for sale at very reasonable prices. Have you considered adopting one of them instead?

[Traum]

I am going to second Paula's opinion and say that you should not breed this mare. I am concerned about the fact that you say you only have $500 to put towards the stud fee. What if the foal gets sick? Vet bills can pile up very fast, will you be able to provide the mare and foal will the care they need if something goes wrong? The economy is just terrible right now, and there are many decent horses for sale at very reasonable prices. Have you considered adopting one of them instead?

I second the seconds. Actually I'm a little surprised at how this thread went but maybe it's because you're new. This board is pretty well known for it's rabid 'don't breed for kolor' folks and with good reason. It's also pretty well known for being anti-indiscriminate 'I have a mare and want a baybe' breeding as well.

At this point in time, unless it was a faboo mare with some outstanding record, if she were mine, there would be no way I'd breed her to anything. THere are just too many excess horses on the ground now. With the limited funds you say you have, and even with the best intentions... a horse's life span is long and often fraught with unexpected expenses. Quite honestly I don't know how to fix the overpopulation problem but I would start with not breeding mares just because I had them.

[jdeboer01]

To those who are telling the OP not to breed her mare --

Listen to yourselves. Don't you think you're being a bit presumptuous and patronizing? She didn't ask for opinions on whether or not she should breed her mare. She wants stallion advice. She states that this mare is a great quality mare with a show record and that she is a very experienced horseperson and has raised babies before. If you don't have any stallion suggestions, then don't post. It's really not your place to be telling her not to breed her mare.

J

[J-Lu]

I think the OP can benefit from all of the viewpoints offered, especially those that question whether or not the mare should be bred and remind the OP of how expensive it *can* be to breed a horse/raise a baby. If the OP is financially limited, this is good advice, no? PaulaM's post was spot on and very polite. The OP will read everything and ultimately decide what she'll do. No harm in offering varied viewpoints, especially viewpoints based in personal experience (like PaulaM's).

[Atlantis]

'don't breed for kolor'

Nobody should breed only for color, but I didn't get the impression from the OP that color was the only priority. If she's got a color preference and there are nice stallions which match that color preference, why shouldn't she pick the color she likes?

indiscriminate 'I have a mare and want a baybe' breeding

I didn't get the impression the OP was breeding indiscriminately. She was asking for stallion suggestions with some particular criteria, for a mare we haven't even seen.

Listen to yourselves. Don't you think you're being a bit presumptuous and patronizing? She didn't ask for opinions on whether or not she should breed her mare. She wants stallion advice. She states that this mare is a great quality mare with a show record and that she is a very experienced horseperson and has raised babies before. If you don't have any stallion suggestions, then don't post. It's really not your place to be telling her not to breed her mare.

I agree.

The OP didn't come here telling us about a fugly backyard mare and a fugly backyard stallion she's going to breed to just for color. She came asking for recommendations for nice 16 hand black stallions, and that's what some people gave her. I'd cut her some slack.

[Ambrey]

She is also not in the US, she is in Canada. We need to not assume Canada has the same problems we have here with horse overpopulation.

[FriesianX]

If I was the OP, I'd be hesitant to ask for help again :no: As Jdeboer, Atlantis, and Ambrey all pointed out in various ways, this is not someone trying to breed indiscrimately. She (or he?) has a mare she is very proud of, she is taking her through sport horse testing, and she is interested in breeding her. I don't get the impression she's trying to start up a breeding ranch, I get the impression she wants a baby for herself from a mare she cares a lot for and believes is very nice quality.

She's doing all the right things - asking for advice on a nice stallion, and she's got some very definate criteria, which just happens to include color. Actually, what I got most from her request is a NICE Warmblood that throws good temperment and trainability. Those seem to be pretty good criteria to look for. She wants a reasonable size - also a valid criteria. And she'd like black.

I don't think anyone was badly rude in their comments, everyone here understands the economy is bad, there are horses without homes, etc - and it never hurts to remind people of that (although my local Newspaper reminds me PLENTY everyday :no:)... But at the same time, why pick on a horse owner who seems to be doing the right thing and WANTS to breed her special mare?

As for adopting a different horse - there is a huge difference to many people between owning a horse you bred and just buying a horse. Breeding isn't the right option for everyone, but for some, it is a wonderful experience. While breeding is not always the least expensive route, nor does it guarantee you quality, it can be the most rewarding route for some...

[Arathita]

FresianX, you seem more upset/sensitive about the advice offered than the OP. Why is that? The OP got numerous suggestions and a spirited argument about homozygosity/heterozygosity. How odd that you state you would be hesitant to post here again because there are a couple of posts that YOU, not the OP, don't like. Let the OP read everything and decide what is good advice and which posts waste her time.

[Dancinglite2]

IfActually, what I got most from her request is a NICE Warmblood that throws good temperment and trainability. Those seem to be pretty good criteria to look for. She wants a reasonable size - also a valid criteria. And she'd like black.

I would offer mine as he meets 98 % of her criteria. He throws black or dark bay, he is proven to cross well with draft and draft crosses. He is not huge and throws on average about 16:2 and he is as ridable (showing trainability) as you can get. This was proven when a girl that never rode him filled in for my sick rider at a hunter over fences/and under saddle show and placed. His temperment is passed to his babies as one baby from the worst mare I have ever seen ( would look to aim before she kicked) is with a riding for mentally challenged people. He has two HOY tittles and his stud fee is/was $500.00


The problem is he is retired and if he breeds it is only local. So go with Redwine.

[PaulaM]

I wasn't trying to be mean or hurtful. I was just being honest. My Tb mare had a proven show record and was approved for breeding as well.

I bred her to approved Stallions and went both on what my gut felt was right for this mare as well as knowledgeable friends opinions as well.

If I personally could go back to 2000 when my mare was bred for the first time (after a pasture accident), I would not have bred her at all.

[bernerz]

Hi everyone, and thanks to everyone who sent such helpful advice and recommended such wonderful Stallions! I have found a true black Stallion, with a Dressage background and of course looks!
This will be my 1st breeding experience, and hopefully my 1st home bred foal. I am very excited, and thanks again to everyone! :D