What does this mean for the TDE?

[retreadeventer]

This is on the USEA website.
I was told it was not going to go this way this year but evidently it is.
"Starting in 2009, the T3DE is no longer considered a USEA "test," and it is endorsed under the USEA/USEF endorsement agreement.
Eligibility: Horses and riders must be registered members of the USEA.
Horses and riders must have obtained a National Qualifying Results (NQR) at four horse trials at the Training level, and one must be as a combination.
Except as noted below, National Qualifying Result (NQR): an NQR is achieved by completing the entire horse trials and scoring: Not more than 50 penalty points in the dressage test; no jumping penalties at obstacles on the cross-country test, and not more than 90 seconds (36 penalty points) exceeding optimum time; and not more than 16 penalties at obstacles in the Jumping Test."
So now you have to be qualified to ride preliminary before you can enter a T3D.
What else would have to be different now? Is it "recognized"? How does this affect things? Recognized judges? What about the other things, the seminars, etc.?

[LAZ]

Retread--

I'll call tomorrow and see what the scoop is and post back here. I'm not thrilled that they changed this up AFTER we all posted our qualification requirements!

[Snapdragon]

I'm hoping to do one in fall 2009, and one of the reasons was for everything we would learn--through seminars, course walks, steeplechase practice. I would be disappointed if those parts of it were dropped. With what you posted, it's not clear that they would be, but since that info. wasn't included, makes me wonder.

[LAZ]

I believe the intent is to keep it as an educational thing. I had heard this was in the works, but I heard for 2010, not 2009.

[Snapdragon]

That's good! I don't mind the qualifications--think you would want to have those before doing the TDE anyway.

[deltawave]

I agree--the qualifications are not terribly demanding, and the "big step" between Training and Preliminary is very nicely spanned with the option of doing a T3D. I do hope they keep the unique educational aspect to it, though.

[FLeckenAwesome]

Hmmm. I'd love to find out for sure too! My goal is this Fall, but... It will totally depend on how things go. I am definitely interested in going just for the seminars if I'm not riding too though, so... fingers crossed!

[RiverBendPol]

As I understand it, the PTB are trying to standardize the T3D so that if I am prepping to compete at the one at GMHA and suddenly find myself instead in Texas, I can be sure the demands will be similar. The FEI will NOT be sticking their noses into the T3D.:winkgrin:
I think it is a good idea to have required qualifications. Although the T3D is an educational event, horses and riders should still have plenty of experience at Training level. If I had my way, I'd make a T3D required for the move up to Prelim.

[FlightCheck]

I'm not a T3DE expert, but I have sat in a lot of meetings, and of course helped with the Ocala ones.

The educational aspects will still be in place - because they are usually all finished before 3pm of the day before dressage, that would still be in conjunction with normal rules.

As others have written, I believe this is to start having standards, so that a T3DE in Florida is on the same standards level as one in, say, Colorado.

There was strong support for making a T3DE mandatory before people moved UP to Prelim. That would not affect those already going Prelim, but to help "bridge the gap" between T and P.

[deltawave]

Grrrreat. Some positive steps forward in terms of shaping the sport's future, by people who are competing at the lower levels. Imagine that! :)

[Janet]

Can you give me a link to that particular statement.

I must be dense, because I can't find it on the USEventing site.

[Thames Pirate]

There was strong support for making a T3DE mandatory before people moved UP to Prelim. That would not affect those already going Prelim, but to help "bridge the gap" between T and P.

This would be awesome! I am strongly in favor of stricter qualifications (4 Trainings with clean XC and attainable dressage/SJ is not unreasonable). It would help force us to return to horsemanship, and it would up our quality, our standards of excellence, etc.

My concern would be that there are few of them available, especially out here in the west. Area VII just lost ours, and it's a LONG drive to California. What if my horse is ready for the T3DE and ready for Prelim, but pulls a muscle or has an abcess just before the T3DE? I would have to spend an entire additional season at Training because there are no T3DEs I could use to qualify. If it happens again (and knowing my horse, it would), I would lose yet another season. It is hard enough to find the funds to compete--finding the money and the time off work/school to travel across the country (as we would inevitably have to do) would be nearly impossible. Even the big names have trouble doing it--they can do it because of sponsors.

If the T3DE becomes more available (at LEAST one or two per area), I would agree with making it mandatory. In theory I LOVE the idea. Is there a way (other than entering or volunteering, which I couldn't do for this particular event) to support and encourage organizers to host such an event--particularly on a national level?

[FlightCheck]

Thames - contact Cindy DePorter, who is heading up the T3DE committee. You can PM me for that if you don't have it.

[vteventer]

There was strong support for making a T3DE mandatory before people moved UP to Prelim. That would not affect those already going Prelim, but to help "bridge the gap" between T and P.

Although in the past I would not have, ( I did Morven a few years ago and LOVED IT) but now I would have to disagree with making the T3DE mandatory to move up to Prelim. As some horses can really excel in a proper long format, others do not. For example, the horse that I am riding right now although capable of doing a 1/2* (has already competed multiple 1*s) simply could not handle the steeplechase phase mentally, but is more than okay at Training and Prelim XC courses. Although I would like to run him in a 1/2* next year, the steeplechase would not be worth the mental stress on my horse in the long run. A rule such as this would limit more than a few horses from moving up. Just my 2 cents though.

[deltawave]

Yes, until they are WIDELY available, having them be mandatory for a Prelim move-up is hard. But they could be "strongly recommended". I'm well aware that this kind of statement holds no water whatsoever, but if coaches and trainers everywhere really push for it (with the backing of the ICP, who could "ding" coaches that don't have their students routinely do them?) it may gain traction.

[Hilary]

I also disagree with making it part of the move-up to prelim - because if one is offered, at most once per year per area, that is very limiting.

Or maybe, cynic hat on tight here, that's exactly why they are thinking of this. Let's make prelim qualifications so hard no smurf will ever make it and then we don't have to worry about them mucking up the upper levels.

Unless they offer them spring and fall, in every region, it's going to be very hard for people to qualify.

Needing 4 horse trials is something that people can do more easily because lots of HT are offered. You don't have to do every one. If there's only 1 T3D offered, and you miss it, you're SOL for another year.

If you qualify for the T3D aren't you also qualified to go Prelim?

[roki143]

SO... Random qualification question.

I'm assuming that all the qualifications have to be done in the usual time period (2 years)... is that correct?

I know there has to be rules and I've scheduled my spring to get re-qualified, but sure would be easier on my wallet if there were exceptions - especially since I'm still qualified but my horses is short by about 4 months :(

[bambam]

The educational aspects will still be in place - because they are usually all finished before 3pm of the day before dressage, that would still be in conjunction with normal rules..
Not at Waredaca- the educational portions go on all week. Why would it matter whether they were done by 3 pm or not?

If the only change is standardizing the qualifications, then I think that is a great idea.

[Janet]

Yes, until they are WIDELY available, having them be mandatory for a Prelim move-up is hard. But they could be "strongly recommended". I'm well aware that this kind of statement holds no water whatsoever, but if coaches and trainers everywhere really push for it (with the backing of the ICP, who could "ding" coaches that don't have their students routinely do them?) it may gain traction.
One of the things that was brought up as a possibility was
Training 3 Day
OR
Specific set of "move up to Prelim" clincs
OR
n extra qualifying Trainings.

[retreadeventer]

The article is not there today. It was in the Training three day section last night. Now I am really baffled as to what is going on.
This is the only reference to it now, Janet.
http://www.useventing.com/aboutus.php?section=convention&id=1779

[Janet]

The article is not there today. It was in the Training three day section last night. Now I am really baffled as to what is going on.
This is the only reference to it now, Janet.
http://www.useventing.com/aboutus.php?section=convention&id=1779
Thanks. I am NOT dense. I was worried.

In another context, I have been told that "the eventing Technical Committee has not yet voted on this". So maybe the posting was premature and they took it down.

[LAZ]

I heard from Sharon Gallagher, she's going to share my concern with the Executive Committee about changing qualification criteria after it has been posted and also asked if I had any additional concerns.

I'll let you know what I hear.

[LAZ]

Sharon sent me the criteria for the T3DE, I'll copy and paste it here.

I replied to her email with my big issue, which is to do with qualifying criteria--they specificed that at least one of the qualifiers be within 3 months.

For those of us in the winter climates offering spring T3DE and for those of you interested in riding in our (or other) spring T3DE it is a deal breaker--we only have two events in Area VIII that fit into that window, one of which is Spring Bay--early April, kids are in school, we've frequently had snow here up to the week prior. The other opportunity would be Greater Dayton, which is two weeks prior to our event--and in the midst of college and some high school finals.

If you would like to see this particular qualification removed please email Sharon Gallagher (Sharon@useventing.com) and let your voices be heard before this becomes engraved in stone.

If anyone is interested in the entire criteria, please pm your email address and I'll send it.

Lee Ann

[TRAINING LEVEL THREE-DAY EVENT TEST
[
[]Definition:To preserve the Classic Three-day Format that includes Phases A & C (Roads & Tracks), B (Steeplechase), D (Endurance), that provides the necessary experience to produce a higher level of horsemanship by combining educational components in conjunction with a competition format. There must be a clear educational emphasis to this competition.
Membership/Qualifications
Horses and riders must be registered/members of the USEA
Horse and rider, not necessarily as a combination must have obtained a NQR at four horse trials at the Training level or established to compete at preliminary or higher. At least one qualifier must be the same horse/rider combination

Dressage: No more than 50 penalty points
Cross-country: No cross-country jump penalties and no more than 36 time penalties
Show Jumping: No more than 16 jump penalties.

At least one qualifier must be achieved within 3 months of the competition and completed 10 days prior to the first dressage test.
Educational Components

[flutie1]

LAZ - you have a pm.

[deltawave]

I recall that some people who did the old Mayfest T3D asked for, and received, permission to have an unrecognized Training HT count as the last qualifier (provided the score was good), because recognized HTs are so few and far between in the spring and the Mayfest one was, well, in May. ;)

[NMK]

LAZ,

That's crazy. My horse has done 12 trainings, one prelim, one T3D and would not be eligible due to the 3 month rule. Spring Bay is out of the question in this area due to weather conditions. Not good. I will e-mail her.

Nnacy

[Gnep]

Can any one explain to me what the T3D teaches for a prelim move up, because a lot think it should be a mandatory qualifying.

I do not see what a T3D can teach a future prelim horse or rider.

[Hony]

Gnep: I can tell you :D
- It teaches riders a lot about fitness (and there is a jump in fitness level needed from Training to Prelim
- Steeple Chase gives riders the opportunity ride at prelim speed in a safe environment (since the jumps are all brush)
- T3DEs tend to be championship level courses and ask questions that are just a little bit harder.
-T3DEs usually run at 470mm as opposed to 450mm, allowing riders to ride at a speed that is a bit quicker but not as quick as prelim. It's like a half step above training but below prelim.

I do not feel that a T3DE should be a mandatory qualifyer for prelim but I do feel it should be encouraged because it does have many benefits.

[Gnep]

Hony which ones have run at 470.

Rider fitness, are you kiding, what for ? at the T3D.

Galloping at prelim speeds over 3 jumps for 1000 meters ??????? that is Prelim ? and inviting brush jumps, that prepares for prelim, realy ? and you need a ? save enviroment ? to do that.
Woooooooooooooooow.

I do not want to burst you bubble, but that aint teaching you anything for prelim.

So why should a competition, that is at trining level, nobody builts a special course, that has a nice little gallop for 1000 meter, with 3 jumps and a short trail ride, at very low speeds prepare you for prelim and why should it be a mandatory qualifier.

And needs improved rider fitness ?
Yaiks

If you take a 1 star as a primer for OI, good choise. Courses are much more demanding, technical and distance wise than prelim, prelim heights but OI technical and that much more jumps and distance. Even a CIC 1 is a very nice preb, Dressage, Stadium, X-C are a step up.

So again what does the T3D teach or prep for Prelim to make it a mandatory qualifikation

[deltawave]

Aww, Gnep, don't be such a dang grouch. Most of us will never go Intermediate, so we don't need to "prep" for it. To me, Prelim was HARD. Not fitness-wise, but COURAGE-wise. I realize this is not a quality that you are lacking, you nutty Kraut, but many of us ARE. :) The T3D (which I did 3 weeks before my Prelim move-up) gave me a lot of confidence that I'd tackled something successfully that was just a bit tougher than Training. Makes that gap a little smaller, you know?

By the time I got to the CIC*/CCI* level, Prelim HTs weren't hard any more. Not that I spent a lot of time at the level, but I could definitely look back and see how the same courses just LOOKED SMALLER. It's a matter of progression, experience, and just getting better. The T3D was a good step along that road for me, and for many others.

[Hony]

Sorry Gnep I don't think I was clear in my last post. You didn't burst my bubble :D

When I rode in T3DE in 2006 at Waredaca the time was 470m/min.

I wasn't talking about rider fitness. I meant that it teaches riders how to fit up their horses which is a good thing because horses do need to be much fitter for prelim than they do for training.

At Waredaca we did 6 chase fences at prelim speed. I feel that was a nice and safe way to introduce prelim speed to riders. Clearly chase fences are not what riders are going to meet on a prelim course but it gives riders a bit of a feel for how fast they will be going when they eventually do get to prelim. I personally thought it was a hell of a lot of fun and obviously didn't learn anything from the excersize because I came in nearly 30 seconds too fast. What can I say, my hony felt good!

I infact said that I don't think it should be mandatory qualifyer. I feel that it should be encouraged because it is a good stepping stone between training and prelim but feel it has no place as a mandatory qualifyer.

Waredaca does build a special course for the T3DE with options and questions that verge on prelim level. They put on a fantastic event that is of championship quality.

As you said, riders have the option of doing a one star or a prelim to qualify for OI. I agree that doing a one star is probably a better test of preparation. In the same respect, riders have the option of doing a half star or a training level to qualify for prelim. I feel that the half star (at least at Waredaca) is a better test of preparation.

I did the T3DE before moving up to prelim and feel that it was a very good choice for me.

[Badger]

Once a rider has gone prelim, they can debut a new horse at prelim without qualifying it by doing X number of trainings. It is unclear to me whether a prelim rider can enter a training 3 day without doing the X number of training qualifiers. Does anyone know if that is the case? Can a prelim rider enter a horse in the training 3 day without completing 4 qualifying training events in the previous 24-month period?

I don't think the T3D should be mandatory for a prelim move-up. I can see it being optional, that prelim requires 4 clear trainings plus a t3d OR 6 clear trainings, something like that.

I hate the "within 3 months" idea. I usually do all of my eventing within 3 or 4 months of the year due to weather and work and location restrictions. The more arbitrary scheduling rules that are added, the harder it is to design an event schedule that is in the best interest of the horse's development and that takes in the local realities of ground conditions for conditioning (which can be frozen, tendon-pulling soggy, or rock-hard concrete depending on the time of year).

[LAZ]

Badger,

Please email Sharon@useventing.com with your remarks on the qualifying window if you haven't already.

It is important that we make our voices heard BEFORE a rule has gone through.

Lee Ann

[Gnep]

DW,
I am not grouchy, ill tempered at times and I like to play devils advocat, especialy if I like a thing.

People have been throwing this qualification thing out and I have the feeling they have not thought it throu, just because it is a LF does not mean a thing, especialy if the guide lines do not put it between the levels.

When it comes to the LF far to many at this BB treat it as the fix for all that goes wrong.

It is great that Waredeca beefs up the course, but are they the only one ?
What about the dressage test, some prelim moves ?
Stadium maybe 2 inches more
X-C and so on.

the T3D is in its infant stages and not jet ready for anything but, well, education.

[Badger]

Badger,

Please email Sharon@useventing.com with your remarks on the qualifying window if you haven't already.

It is important that we make our voices heard BEFORE a rule has gone through.

Lee Ann

Done. I'll post here if I hear back about the prelim rider question.

[Hony]

It is great that Waredeca beefs up the course, but are they the only one ?
What about the dressage test, some prelim moves ?
Stadium maybe 2 inches more
X-C and so on.

the T3D is in its infant stages and not jet ready for anything but, well, education.

That's not a bad idea for dressage. Maybe the T3DE could use one of the easier prelim tests.

With regard to SJ height, coming from Canada I found it low. Training here is 3'3-3'6, whereas in the US it is 3'3 from what I understand. When I did the T3DE all the jumps were to max height. In Canada not all jumps will be max but a few jumps will be at 3'5 or 3'6 which does present an extra challenge. Maybe T3DEs could adopt this method of measurement.

[Hilary]

What is the dressage test for the T3D? I would hope it's more than the regular Training test . Use a first level test if they don't want to write a whole new one - and since Eventing Dressage tests generally make you go Huh?, using a USDF test would be a good choice.

Gnep - My particular horse would benefit greatly from the T3D before going Prelim. My other horse moved from T to P without the 3-day and his issues would not have been solved by running the T3d. Star? Needs her GO button fully, completely installed. Why not do it at Training level rather than wait until a full * before getting that benefit? Knowing her, doing the T3D will make Prelim easier for both of us. Plus I want to support it.

I am lucky to ride with a trainer who did the long format **** many times. She is relentless about fitness for all levels, but specifically when her students move up to Prelim. I think riders who don't have this coaching, and decide to try the T3D may just be motivated enough to really get on the fitness stick, which is never a bad thing.

But I stand by my opinion that it should not be mandatory before moving up to P.

[LAZ]

The dressage test USEA is going to mandate is Training Test B. It can be ridden in the small or large arena at the organizers discretion.

Again, (at the risk of having my soap box collapse out from under me) if you have thoughts you wish to be considered, now is the time to contact the USEA about this and have your voice heard.

Lee Ann

[tlw]

Here's what I sent Sharon regarding the 3 month window (I'll post any reply):

"First a little background: I am a 56 year old true ammie who gets to an average of 3-4 horse trials a year (last year I made 5 and ended up on the Leaderboard for master amateur at training level). My horse has two intermediate HTs in England (plus a slew of their novice) under her belt. In our last 12 horse trials we have no cross country jumping penalties, 1 show with 1.6 time, 3 rails down and an average dressage score of approx. 30 -31 (a low of 26.5). That said, due to work and geographic constraints we might not qualify for a T3D because of the 3 month requirement. I live in south Louisiana and have to travel 6 hours to Holly Hill or 7 1/2 hours to Poplar Place. I understand the desire to make sure that horse and rider are ready for a T3D and not cleaning the dust off a qualifying season season two years ago but three months doesn't really give a big enough window for, I suspect, many folks in my situation. Anyway, thanks for listening and please take my concerns into consideration."

At the time I hadn't considered the dressage issue but I do think a test where one has to sit the trot would be appropriate. Not too sure about the show jumping height though, I'll have to think on that. If the jumps get to 3'-5" then the HT is essentially prelim with a training level x-country. I guess that might be a safe way to get close to prelim. It depends on the purpose of the T3D - education or a prep/qualifyer for prelim.

[myboyludy]

Although in the past I would not have, ( I did Morven a few years ago and LOVED IT) but now I would have to disagree with making the T3DE mandatory to move up to Prelim. As some horses can really excel in a proper long format, others do not. For example, the horse that I am riding right now although capable of doing a 1/2* (has already competed multiple 1*s) simply could not handle the steeplechase phase mentally, but is more than okay at Training and Prelim XC courses. Although I would like to run him in a 1/2* next year, the steeplechase would not be worth the mental stress on my horse in the long run. A rule such as this would limit more than a few horses from moving up. Just my 2 cents though.

I agree! Im NEVER gonna do a long format as long as I can help it and I know may others who feel this way. For everyone that wants to do it I think should be able to but I do not. My horses are too special to me to blow them out steeplechase. My retired advanced horse( one of those old time tb) missed his chance to do atlanta in 96 due to an injury sustained at rolex in steeplechase, talk about heartbreaking! I do agree with the qualifications but the making someone do a 3 day thing is wrong. Some people never even want to do one or cant keep horses sound enough without help that the fei doesnt allow. and just like the quote.... Just my two cents

[LAZ]

Myboyludy--

I'm curious if you owned the horse at the time and were its rider? Or have you heard this secondhand?

I'm not disputing that horses have gotten hurt on steeplechase, but I haven't ever really seen any studies/data that there were more horses not complete due injuries sustained on the chase. To me, and I have not run the numbers-this is just my observation, there seem to be fewer horses (percentage of entries) show jumping on Sunday now than there were when the long format existed.

FWIW, though I am a (obviously) a huge supporter of the long format, I do not think the T3DE should be required for moving up to Prelim either. In my mind it is due to logistics rather than anything else. There are just too few T3DE available to be feasible.







I agree! Im NEVER gonna do a long format as long as I can help it and I know may others who feel this way. For everyone that wants to do it I think should be able to but I do not. My horses are too special to me to blow them out steeplechase. My retired advanced horse( one of those old time tb) missed his chance to do atlanta in 96 due to an injury sustained at rolex in steeplechase, talk about heartbreaking! I do agree with the qualifications but the making someone do a 3 day thing is wrong. Some people never even want to do one or cant keep horses sound enough without help that the fei doesnt allow. and just like the quote.... Just my two cents

[Speedy]

One of the upper level riders in Area II (one who is very well liked) had a hard time getting folks to sign up for a clinic that was focused on LF education - it was to give riders aspiring to the T3D an opportunity to learn how to ride at speed, do steeplechase, the vet box, etc. I am a little perplexed by the lack of interest in a clinic like that, esp since it was offered specifically as a prep to the T3D, and esp given the supposed interest in keeping the LF alive. Just curious - my own opinion, FWIW, is that you can't really learn all of these skills well in one go - it takes time and experience - and that, personally, I would not want to be introduced to them for the first time at an event, even if the event is intended as an educational opportunity.

[Badger]

I heard back from Sharon and will share her reply here. First my letter:

I was reading on the Chonicle of the Horse Bulletin Board that the Training Level Three-Day Event may become a requirement for riders before they go prelim. I have a question and a comment:

Question (I'd appreciate a reply to this question if you know the answer):
Once a rider has gone prelim, they can debut a new horse at prelim without
qualifying it by doing X number of trainings. It is unclear to me whether a
prelim rider can enter a training 3 day without doing the X number of
training qualifiers. Can a prelim rider enter a horse in the training 3 day
without completing 4 qualifying training events in the previous 24-month
period?

In my case, I've done a CIC* on one of my horses and may be interested in
doing a CCI* with steeplechase on him later this year. Trainer and I do not
think it makes sense to run him in a training three-day at this point, but I
wouldn't mind running a training three-day on another horse of mine that
I've competed at training but is not qualified for a training 3-day within
in the 24-month window (he was qualified a year ago, but I'm foxhunting him these days rather than eventing him). It'd be a good educational experience for both this training level horse and for me, but I'm not going to get him requalified in other to do that. Keep in mind that I could enter this horse in a prelim event, so I hope I could also enter him, based on my prelim rider qualifications, in a training 3-day.

Comment:
I don't think the T3D should be mandatory for a prelim move-up. I can see it
being optional, that prelim requires 4 clear trainings plus a t3d OR 6 clear
trainings, something like that. But until training three days are readily
available across the country AND well run with decent facilities (including
good footing and courses that legitimately are max training questions) then
I really do not think that making it mandatory is reasonable and realistic
to eventers across our vast country.

I hate the "within 3 months" idea. I usually do all of my eventing within 3
or 4 months of the year due to weather and work and location restrictions.
The more arbitrary scheduling rules that are added, the harder it is to
design an event schedule that is in the best interest of the horse's
development and that takes in the local realities of ground conditions for
conditioning (which can be frozen, tendon-pulling soggy, or rock-hard
concrete depending on the time of year).

I'm a working adult amateur who has made it to the one-star level on a homebred horse. Adding an extra requirement of a training three-day before the move-up is not going to be in the best interests of all eventers and their horses. We need the flexibility to move up to prelim when we are ready and not have the arbitary requirement of being ready for a three-day on the one weekend of the year it might be offered within an 8-hour drive of home. Horse soundness issues, work schedules, etc., make that sort of requirement a real hardship for working adults, who are going to be a major audience for training three days. I hope this does not become manditory.

And the response:

The qualifications that were approved at the Annual Meeting state that horse and rider, not necessarily as a combination, must have obtained a NQR at four horse trials at the Training level or established to compete at preliminary or higher. At least one qualifier must be the same horse/rider combination. At least one qualifier must be achieved within 3 months of the competition and completed 10 days prior to the first dressage test.

The proposal to require a training three-day for preliminary is still in the early stages of discussion for the reasons you have noted, specifically the availability and logistics involved for many members. The USEF Eventing Technical Committee will meet on Friday at the USEF Annual Meeting. No doubt this subject will be on the table – I will forward your comments to Shealagh Costello, USEF Director of Eventing for consideration.

As with any rule(arguably), there is a sound reason for it being put into place. The TR-3 Day is not a training level horse trials; both horse and rider must be conditioned to successful compete under longer distances and additional jumping phase. That includes the proper preparation leading up to the three-day. There have been reports that some riders have either pulled a horse out of the field just to compete at the three-day or made it their first outing. I am glad to read that you understand the importance in preparing both yourself and your horse prior to the competition, unfortunately, some do not, and that is why this rule was added. However, having said this, it has been requested that we postpone the new qualifications until 2010, in order to allow everyone to create a schedule to meet the new requirements. The USEA Executive Committee will review this request over the next few days.

Thank you for taking the time to let us know your thoughts. Wishing you much success in 2009!

I still am not clear whether a prelim rider can enter a horse of their choice in a training three-day without meeting further qualifications. A prelim rider could enter a horse of their choice in a prelim horse trial without further qualifications, so they ought to be able to enter them in the lower level training three-day if they so choose.

[Hilary]

I would say that no, as a prelim rider you can't just enter a horse in the T3D. It says "horse and rider, but not necessarily together" must be qualified.

So this is stricter than the Prelim qualifications. I do think this is strange - why make something that is ostensibly less difficult than Prelim have harder requirements?

Will there be an appeals or exceptions clause? Will they make David O'Connor (now that he's back competing a T horse) requalifiy his HORSE?

[deltawave]

My horses are too special to me to blow them out steeplechase. My retired advanced horse( one of those old time tb) missed his chance to
do atlanta in 96 due to an injury sustained at rolex in steeplechase

I am thinking of 3 horses that I personally know who "blew out" their tendons galloping in a pasture. They are certainly not "too special" to their owners to never be turned out again. This line of thinking makes no sense to me.

[retreadeventer]

One of the upper level riders in Area II (one who is very well liked) had a hard time getting folks to sign up for a clinic that was focused on LF education - it was to give riders aspiring to the T3D an opportunity to learn how to ride at speed, do steeplechase, the vet box, etc. I am a little perplexed by the lack of interest in a clinic like that, esp since it was offered specifically as a prep to the T3D, and esp given the supposed interest in keeping the LF alive. Just curious - my own opinion, FWIW, is that you can't really learn all of these skills well in one go - it takes time and experience - and that, personally, I would not want to be introduced to them for the first time at an event, even if the event is intended as an educational opportunity.


Yes, I could not understand this about the previous prep clinics.
However when you are conditioning for a fall three-day you will be doing quite a bit of work towards the end of August, throughout September and into the cooler weather with better footing. That particular year, I think conditions were just not good enough for working at speed, it was very hot the weekend they picked, and everything was rock hard. Were I conditioning a horse at that time I would not have considered speed work other than on my own sand track that I could keep worked up. So to be fair, I believe that weather and ground conditions might have been a factor. But you know, August is hot.

Actually it doesn't really take time, or experience, to do steeplechase. Its sort of like riding a bicycle. You have to JUST DO IT, and you and your horse learn and go on. There's no sense "practicing" because it isn't the same as the real thing anyhow. Our steeplechase guru, Pam Weidemann, gives the BEST demonstration and talk on it, creates a huge amount of confidence and skill in riders in her 1 1/2-hour sessions at the Area II Adult Riders T3D, and the riders know what they are doing on E day without question. It's a very successful and enjoyable way to learn and I don't think any one of the riders I watched (and I timed steeplechase this year so I saw every one) didn't have a great time. Sometimes you have to learn in a fashion that is not your usual, comfortable pattern -- and it works. You know, when you have Olympic silver medalists, Pan Am Gold medalists, USET riders, etc. who are telling you how and what to do -- you have to listen to their wisdom. They have done it for a long time and know exactly what to expect. (Classic format, I mean.) Every T3D ought to have a Pam! We are so lucky! And did you know....that most of the upper level riders we have that come and teach, usually sneak back on E day and watch!?

I find it also odd that people "pull horses in out of pastures" to do a T3D. What on earth ... do the organizers of these have any idea of what kind of entries they have?

[LAZ]

I find it also odd that people "pull horses in out of pastures" to do a T3D. What on earth ... do the organizers of these have any idea of what kind of entries they have?

I found that hard to believe as well--and my thought is that the 10 minute box should expose this type of shoddy horsemanship.

I wrote Sharon with the suggestion we publish our criteria for TPR (Temp, pulse, resp) recovery to go on to phase D so that competitors KNOW their horse is fit enough, long before they come to the T3DE. I also offered to write a brief article on how to take TPR's so people who might not know, can learn.

[CookiePony]

So this is stricter than the Prelim qualifications. I do think this is strange - why make something that is ostensibly less difficult than Prelim have harder requirements?


I did just go look up the Prelim requirements in Appendix 3 and need some clarification:
2.4PRELIMINARY (P) - Open to competitors from the beginning of the calendar year of their 14th birthday, on horses five years of age or older. The competitor must have obtained an NQR at four Horse Trials at the Training Level or higher. [My emphasis]


What is the definition of "competitor"? The rider? I assume that this does NOT mean "horse and rider, not necessarily as a combination."

Whatever the answer, 1) the three-month rule and 2) the horse and rider having to do at least one NQR as a combination make meeting the qualifications for a T3DE indeed harder than meeting those for Prelim.

[Speedy]

Actually it doesn't really take time, or experience, to do steeplechase. Its sort of like riding a bicycle. You have to JUST DO IT, and you and your horse learn and go on. There's no sense "practicing" because it isn't the same as the real thing anyhow. Our steeplechase guru, Pam Weidemann, gives the BEST demonstration and talk on it, creates a huge amount of confidence and skill in riders in her 1 1/2-hour sessions at the Area II Adult Riders T3D, and the riders know what they are doing on E day without question. It's a very successful and enjoyable way to learn and I don't think any one of the riders I watched (and I timed steeplechase this year so I saw every one) didn't have a great time. Sometimes you have to learn in a fashion that is not your usual, comfortable pattern -- and it works. You know, when you have Olympic silver medalists, Pan Am Gold medalists, USET riders, etc. who are telling you how and what to do -- you have to listen to their wisdom. They have done it for a long time and know exactly what to expect. (Classic format, I mean.) Every T3D ought to have a Pam! We are so lucky! And did you know....that most of the upper level riders we have that come and teach, usually sneak back on E day and watch!?

I completely agree - everyone I know who has participated has had a very positive experience to report - but I also know of many riders who were far more nervous about steeplechase than they would have been, had they had the opportunity to give it a shot a time or two beforehand. I guess I am spoiled - we can practice steeplechase at our farm and my trainer is one of those who has provided instruction at the T3D in Area II - and because she is very serious about getting everyone doing LF at any level out there ahead of time, at least once, the fear factor doesn't play into it. I guess I just find it odd that, given the same opportunity, other folks wouldn't jump on it - oh well, you must be right about folks having made a good decision on that with the conditions being what they were!

[Gnep]

Why is it a surprise that they do not get enough sign ups for a clinic like that.
Even during the LF time, the majority never cared about it, and did not care to learn how to do it.
Even the riders who did it, mostly did it because there was no real alternative offered.
One can say that only at the 1star level and very few at the 2star level did it because of it, but those were most likely amis, LF-Fans, who did it because of the challange and those are ones that are still entering the LF 1stars

About the chase. Most of the nay sayer are right, because in far to many cases the racetrack and the R&T are a after thought for organizers. Very few shows have access to a real racetrack, Gallway or Coconino, for example.
Most of the tracks that I have ridden were fields, with lousy fooding, uneven, hard, to deep, to soft, muddy, slick, grass to high, you name it.
More time, money was spent on X-C footing, hardly any on chase footing.
More time and money was spent on the lay out of the X-C, choise of terrain, chase hardly anything, were do we have a half ass flat spot, oh over there, lets put the brushes there.
Honestly thats how it was done far to often.
I have spent hours filling holes, finding the nicest galloping ground and marking my lanes on those pastures chases.
I understand why so many were glad when the chase and R&T was dumped.

That would be my advice for LAZ, choose your chase very carefull and than spent a lot of time and money on its footing, get yourself some real good advice and help how to prep it.
If I would organize a LF that would be my main concern, I would want the riders to have absolutely no concern about galloping at 1000, even throu the turns.

R&T, the real after thought, horrible, I bet that some of the injuries started on R&T.
Hardly any organizer considered the need for a nice short blow out, or galloping in before the chase, you had to do it on footing that you would barely use for trotting at home.
Thats a nother advice for LAZ, find 500 to 1000 meter on A, about 3/4 throu it, were the riders can gallop their horse in, good footing, make it good, clean, no rocks, sticks, deep sand, wash outs etc. as straight as possible, at least 500 meter, 1k would be outstanding.

[LAZ]

Just got word that the USEA has decided to postpone the qualification criteria for 2009, thanks to everyone that wrote in to the USEA!

Initially, the qualifications to participate were tightened. However, with some TR-3 Day's scheduled early in the season and this requirement only just announced, the Executive Committee was asked to postpone the new qualifications until 2010. The Executive Committee concurred that it could be difficult for competitors to meet the qualifications in the time for the competition; therefore, voted to leave the qualification criteria at the discretion of the organizers for the 2009 competition year.