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May07Bride
Jan. 4, 2009, 04:45 PM
I hope it's OK I post about this here...

I have always been a bit of a dog food snob in feeding my 3 (Innova/Evo, Solid Gold, Nutro Ultra), but my husband I and were at Costco a couple weeks ago after buying a 35 lbs of dog food for $50 and noticed their 40 lbs bags were $21.00 and I remembered once reading that Kirkland's own brand was actually decent. So I checked out the ingredients and I was actually quite shocked. They looked better to me than the Nutra Ultra we just purchased. So we bought a bag and slowly switched them over. They love it and seem to be doing just as good on it as anything else. At feeding about 8 cups of dog food per day, this is a significant find for us!

Anyone else use it or have any thoughts or experiences? (And yes, I know the BEST is homemade and/or raw, but I won't even make chicken for myself b/c I can't look at it...lol)

dalpal
Jan. 4, 2009, 05:04 PM
Would have to know what the ingredients are......not a fan of Nutro at all. I would be shocked if Costco actually compared with Evo. The lower quality, the more you have to feed.

dalpal
Jan. 4, 2009, 05:14 PM
Found the ingredients..

Lamb, Lamb meal, whole grain brown rice, rice flour, white rice, egg product, cracked pearled barley, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocoperols and Vitamin E), beet pulp, potatoes, fishmeal, flaxseed, natural flavor, millet, brewers dried yeast, carrots, peas, choline chloride, rosemary extract, parsley flake, dried chicory root, glucosamine hydrochloride, taurine, vitamin E supplement, iron proteinate, copper proteninate, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate, manganese proteniate, manganese oxide, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), Vitamin B12 supplement, menadione sodium bisulfate (source of vitamin K activity), riboflavin, vitamin D supplement, folic acid

It's okay, I've seen far worse. Personally not a fan of fillers lsuch as rice flour, white rice, "egg product", beet pulp.

But I am a dog food snob, I only feed raw now and would feed canned over kibble.....but dog nutrition is much like horse nutrition.....what works for one doesn't necessarily work for all.

May07Bride
Jan. 4, 2009, 05:18 PM
Here is the lamb one (we bought the chicken one though, but it's similar) Besides the lamb difference, ours has barley in place of the white rice. My ultra has corn gluton meal in it which I don't think is good, but I got it and was recommended it at a high end pet store....
I know someone who works for solid gold and she said that meat "meals" are almost alway needed in dry foods and that doesn't concern me. Everything else seems great... The fat is higher which is good for my dogs.

Lamb, Lamb meal, whole grain brown rice, rice flour, white rice, egg product, cracked pearled barley, chicken fat (preserved witn mixed tocoperols and Vitamine E), beet pulp, potatoes, fishmeal, flaxseed, natural flavor, milet, brewers dried yest, carrots, peas, choline chloride, rosemary extract, parsley flake, dried chicory root, glucosamine hydrochloride, taurine, vitamin E suppliment, iron proteinate, copper proteninate, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate, manganese proteniate, manganous oxide, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), Vitamin B12 supplement, menadione sodium bivulfite (source of vitamin K activity), riboflavin, vitamin D supplement, folic acid

Guaranteed Analysis:

Crude Protein 23% minimum
Crude Fat 14% minimum
Crude Fiber 4% maximum
Moisture 10% maximum
Zinc 200mg/kg minimum
Selenium 0.4 mg/kg minimum
Vitamin A 15000 IU/KG minimum
Omega-6 fatty acids 2.2% minimum
Omega-3 Fatty Acids 0.4 % minimum
Glucosamine HCl not less than 300 mg/kg
Chondroitin sulfate not less than 100 mg/kg

May07Bride
Jan. 4, 2009, 05:20 PM
ok, found the chicken one...


Ingredients:
Chicken,chicken meal,whole grain brown rice, cracked pearled barley, egg product, beet pulp, chicken fat(preserved with mixed tocopherols and Vitamin E), potatoes,fish meal, flaxseed,natural flavors, brewers dried yeast, millet, potassium chloride, salt, choline, carrots, peas, kelp, apples, dried skim milk, cranberry powder,
salmon oil (a source of DHA), rosemary extract, parsley flake, dried chicory root, vitamin E supplement, iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, biotin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin, vitamin D supplement, folic acid.


Guaranteed Analysis
Crude Protein 28.0% minimum
Crude Fat 17.0% minimum
Crude Fiber 3.0% minimum
Moisture 10.0% minimum
Calcium 1.2% minimum
Phosphorus 1.0%minimum
Zinc 225mg/kg minimum
Selenium 0.4 mg/kg minimum
Vitamin E 250 IU/kg minimum
Omega-6 Fatty Acids 3.0% minimum*
Omega-3 Fatty Acids 0.5% minimum*
Docosahexaenoic Acid (DHA) 0.05% minimum*

May07Bride
Jan. 4, 2009, 05:22 PM
It's okay, I've seen far worse. Personally not a fan of fillers lsuch as rice flour, white rice, "egg product", beet pulp.

But I am a dog food snob, I only feed raw now and would feed canned over kibble.....but dog nutrition is much like horse nutrition.....what works for one doesn't necessarily work for all.
Must have been searching at the same time :)

Thankfully, ours doesn't have rice flour or white rice. Egg product is also something my friend at Solid Gold said is totally fine. I like beet pulp for my horse, so I assumed it was probably good for the dogs too.... Do you not like beet pulp at all?

Edited, nm, I just did some research on beet pulp for dogs and there are pros and cons. I wonder if beet pulp was in any of my other dog foods before this.

dalpal
Jan. 4, 2009, 05:33 PM
I believe in beet pulp for horses...but I don't like alot of useless fillers in my meat eating dogs' food. If I were going to feed kibble, it would be a grain free.

I think the food looks much better than alot I've seen....I'm just a fan of raw or canned.....less processed. I'd rather have fresh meat/salad than a premixed boxed meal.....just healthier.

My horses are no different...although beet pulp is a big part of their diet.

May07Bride
Jan. 4, 2009, 05:38 PM
I definitely agree with you in theory. :) But I don't have much choice but to feed kibble right now and it's always worked out OK for us using a somewhat decent food and I think I feel good enough about the ingredients. :) Thanks for all the imput!

dalpal
Jan. 4, 2009, 05:46 PM
I definitely agree with you in theory. :) But I don't have much choice but to feed kibble right now and it's always worked out OK for us using a somewhat decent food and I think I feel good enough about the ingredients. :) Thanks for all the imput!

Yes, yes...that's what I was saying........Heck, my friend's lab lived to be 15 on whatever was on sale at the grocery store. :lol:

elizabeth1
Jan. 4, 2009, 05:57 PM
I have a neighbor that has a small show kennel with more ribbons and trophies than anyone could imagine.

A few years ago she told me she was feeding Walmart brand food as it had the same ingredients as the higher end food. I've been feeding Ol Roy ever since and my guys look great.

I don't know if this has changed but she still has the champions and my mutts are good to go.

May07Bride
Jan. 4, 2009, 06:09 PM
I have a neighbor that has a small show kennel with more ribbons and trophies than anyone could imagine.

A few years ago she told me she was feeding Walmart brand food as it had the same ingredients as the higher end food. I've been feeding Ol Roy ever since and my guys look great.

I don't know if this has changed but she still has the champions and my mutts are good to go.

Interesting! Normally I wouldn't go the cheap route, but it was frustrating to see very similar ingredients (and thisactually has the most fat and protein out of the others I was buying, minus Evo, which my dogs need) on a large bag that was less than half the price! It would be one thing if it was total garbage, but I think it's pretty decent. My dogs are all rescues too, so I'm sure it's still a huge step up fromwhat they ate in previous lives! haha

OTTB Times 2
Jan. 4, 2009, 06:24 PM
I have 3 large dogs, and feed the chicken-based dog food from Costco. I previously fed Innova. I switched them to the Kirkland's Best about a year ago, and have not noticed any difference in the dogs. I won't feed the dogs any food with corn, so I was thrilled to discover the Costco food.

I also feed the Costco cat food to my cats, though I typically mix it half & half with EVO.

citydog
Jan. 4, 2009, 06:31 PM
The CostCo dog food isn't too bad, ingredient-wise, although that's a lot of rice. Certainly a decent food for the price. :yes: I'd be curious to know who actually makes it.

Ol' Roy, though, is the doggy equivalent of feeding your kids McDonalds at every single meal. Trophies and ribbons mean *nothing* when it comes to long-term health. It's cheap, nasty crap.

Fairview Horse Center
Jan. 4, 2009, 06:34 PM
I don't know about the dogfoot, but my barn cats that will eat any of the grocery store cheap brands HATE the Kirkland catfood.

citydog
Jan. 4, 2009, 06:37 PM
Palatability doesn't necessarily indicate quality, however.

dalpal
Jan. 4, 2009, 06:44 PM
The CostCo dog food isn't too bad, ingredient-wise, although that's a lot of rice. Certainly a decent food for the price. :yes: I'd be curious to know who actually makes it.

Ol' Roy, though, is the doggy equivalent of feeding your kids McDonalds at every single meal. Trophies and ribbons mean *nothing* when it comes to long-term health. It's cheap, nasty crap.


Diamond and I agree with the Old Roy....I've never had a breeder recommend Old Roy food....it's full of fillers and by products.

elizabeth1
Jan. 4, 2009, 06:45 PM
I need to take a look at the Ol Roy ingredients again. The conversation I had with the show dog neighbor was quite some time ago and ingredients could very well have changed.

Having said that, my guys have very good vet checks and one is a large 15 year old.

I'll check this week and consult my vet. It may be time for a change.

dalpal
Jan. 4, 2009, 06:50 PM
I need to take a look at the Ol Roy ingredients again. The conversation I had with the show dog neighbor was quite some time ago and ingredients could very well have changed.

Having said that, my guys have very good vet checks and one is a large 15 year old.

I'll check this week and consult my vet. It may be time for a change.


If you can, do post them. And like I said, my friend had a very healthy lab who lived 15 years on "whatever was on sale" at the grocery store.

citydog
Jan. 4, 2009, 06:54 PM
Genetic good luck...

elizabeth1
Jan. 4, 2009, 07:07 PM
Genetic good luck...

HAhaha. I'm thinking now I've had garbage hounds on garbage food and all worked out well!

I'll call my vet tomorrow and tell you what she thinks. She's known for years what I've fed them.

Sakura
Jan. 4, 2009, 07:10 PM
Considering that Kirkland (Costco brand) food choices for people tend to be pretty good quality items as in natural and sometimes organic (we buy their frozen wild caught salmon all the time)... I would place my bets on their animal foods to be o.k. to very good quality.

leakyb
Jan. 4, 2009, 07:16 PM
Diamond and I agree with the Old Roy....I've never had a breeder recommend Old Roy food....it's full of fillers and by products.

Hi, I'm a new poster here, but have owned horses and show dogs for decades now.

If you are curious, go to dogfoodanalysis.com which has a rating system for kibbles. Kirkland rates 3 stars out of a 6 star grading system.

Old Roy and the cheapest of all dog foods were a huge part of the melamine recall when a lot of kibbles were tainted that were manufactured in China. Basically, if you love your dogs and cats...do not feed anything made in China.

Feeding a dog is like feeding a horse when it comes to quality ingredients. You end up feeding less of a good quality feed and the dog processes it better, leading to less poop!

May07Bride
Jan. 4, 2009, 07:17 PM
I have 3 large dogs, and feed the chicken-based dog food from Costco. I previously fed Innova. I switched them to the Kirkland's Best about a year ago, and have not noticed any difference in the dogs. I won't feed the dogs any food with corn, so I was thrilled to discover the Costco food.

I also feed the Costco cat food to my cats, though I typically mix it half & half with EVO.

Good to know! I wasn't thrilled to see a corn product in my Nutro Ultra Holistic dog food that was about $50 for a 35 lb bag at the fancy pet food store so this to me is even better and wayyyy cheaper! And they're loving it!

May07Bride
Jan. 4, 2009, 07:19 PM
Hi, I'm a new poster here, but have owned horses and show dogs for decades now.

If you are curious, go to dogfoodanalysis.com which has a rating system for kibbles. Kirkland rates 3 stars out of a 6 star grading system.



What is funny is that the Nutro Ultra (which is supposed to be the best Nutro product) is also a 3 and Solid Gold was a 4 - all had would NOT recommend, so who really knows. Personally I like looking by ingredients the best and these seem OK for what I am willing to deal with. :)

dalpal
Jan. 4, 2009, 07:20 PM
Hi, I'm a new poster here, but have owned horses and show dogs for decades now.

If you are curious, go to dogfoodanalysis.com which has a rating system for kibbles. Kirkland rates 3 stars out of a 6 star grading system.

Old Roy and the cheapest of all dog foods were a huge part of the melamine recall when a lot of kibbles were tainted that were manufactured in China. Basically, if you love your dogs and cats...do not feed anything made in China.

Feeding a dog is like feeding a horse when it comes to quality ingredients. You end up feeding less of a good quality feed and the dog processes it better, leading to less poop!


HI..what type of dogs do you show?

Just an FYI, talking about the recall of 2007.....Costco was part of that recall as well....I found that when I was researching for the ingredients.

dalpal
Jan. 4, 2009, 07:24 PM
Genetic good luck...


Yup...I agree. My dalmatian is a stone former and I have to be very careful with his diet. He's not much of a drinker (damnit), so I take Nupro, make a gravy base with distilled water and add in raw food.....He slurps it up. Raw (I feed Nature's Variety Complete Chubs) allows me to get more moisture in his system.

I'm part of a Yahoo list with lots of dalmatian breeders, so luckily, I get lots of mentoring advice on nutrition from that site. :yes: People who have been breeding dogs/showing dogs for decades.

leakyb
Jan. 4, 2009, 07:26 PM
HI..what type of dogs do you show?

Just an FYI, talking about the recall of 2007.....Costco was part of that recall as well....I found that when I was researching for the ingredients.

I show Dobermans.....conformation, obedience and just started with a new dog in agility about a year ago. Agility is really fun and a real difference from obedience, my first love.

I feed EVO, Taste of the Wild Bison or salmon , or Nature's Variety Beef or Salmon kibble a.m. with organic yogurt and a raw egg 2x week. Then they get raw p.m. (Nature's Variety premade raw patties with beef heart, tripe, salmon or mackerel as add ins.) My vet is a nutritionist and suggests that you rotate premium kibbles throughout the year.

I've found that a lot of Doberman people find Purina Pro Plan works for Dobes with sensitive stomachs and seems to work for many breeders. I've never fed it and my dogs have cast iron guts, but it is interesting that individual body chemistry will tell you what the dog needs to thrive.

dalpal
Jan. 4, 2009, 07:28 PM
I show Dobermans.....conformation, obedience and just started with a new dog in agility about a year ago. Agility is really fun and a real difference from obedience, my first love.

I feed EVO, Taste of the Wild Bison or salmon , or Nature's Variety Beef or Salmon kibble a.m. with organic yogurt and a raw agg 2x week. Then they get raw p.m. (Nature's Variety premade raw patties with beef heart, tripe, salmon or mackerel as add ins.) My vet is a nutritionist and suggests that you rotate premium kibbles throughout the year.


You are so lucky!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! All the small animal vets around here push the Hill's brands (where's the vomit icon)

Bluey
Jan. 4, 2009, 08:05 PM
You are so lucky!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! All the small animal vets around here push the Hill's brands (where's the vomit icon)

I think that maybe you lack perspective?
Science Diet was the first "good", well researched food around and millions of dogs thrived and still do today on it.

Sure, you can find more "perfect" foods, but unless a dog has a special need, most dogs do fine still today on it.
Our minpin lived to 17 and died in his sleep, not a sick day in his life and so did our great dane at 11, which at that time was rare for one of them to live so long.

In our performance dog club, that just finished it's three day two times a year agility show today, we don't talk much about dog foods, as so many people are rabid about what they like and the conversations tend to get easily heated.;)
Some of our dog club members are veterinarians and one of them is a nutrition specialist also, that gives regularly seminars on dog foods.:)

It is ok to believe you are feeding what works best for your dogs, but that should not give anyone the right to become insulting towards other's choices.:no:

To the OP, I am not familiar with those Costco foods, we don't have such a store close, but if your dogs do fine on it, it probably is ok.:yes:
When you read labels, be sure you are comparing apples to apples, not bananas, as per percentages, moisture, etc.

dalpal
Jan. 4, 2009, 08:13 PM
I think that maybe you lack perspective? Hmmmm, nope, it's called lots of research. ;)
Science Diet was the first "good", well researched food around and millions of dogs thrived and still do today on it. Hmmm, it's not on the Whole Dog Journal list...so it isn't a "great" food.
Sure, you can find more "perfect" foods, but unless a dog has a special need, most dogs do fine still today on it. Not always, lots of dogs on it have skin issues..can't tell you how many times people on another message board have complained about skin issues and viola, switch to a higher end food and the dog gets better.

Our minpin lived to 17 and died in his sleep, not a sick day in his life and so did our great dane at 11, which at that time was rare for one of them to live so long. that's awesome and as I said, one of my friend's dog lived to be 15 on grocery store brand food.

In our performance dog club, that just finished it's three day two times a year agility show today, we don't talk much about dog foods, as so many people are rabid about what they like and the conversations tend to get easily heated.;) I really don't care what anyone else feeds, I feed what works for me. If someone asks for my opinion, I will give it. ;)
Some of our dog club members are veterinarians and one of them is a nutrition specialist also, that gives regularly seminars on dog foods.:)

That's great that you have a nutritionists....it's been my experience that vets know very little about nutiriton. I think they get a 2 week course in school. ;)

It is ok to believe you are feeding what works best for your dogs, but that should not give anyone the right to become insulting towards other's choices.:no: It's an opinion Bluey...take a chill pill.:lol:

To the OP, I am not familiar with those Costco foods, we don't have such a store close, but if your dogs do fine on it, it probably is ok.:yes:
When you read labels, be sure you are comparing apples to apples, not bananas, as per percentages, moisture, etc.

Life is just too short to get riled up over internet opinions.....take what you want, leave what you want. ;) It's also my opinion, that people learn by asking questions...that's how I decided what I wanted to feed.....I fed Hill's RD to a rescue years ago and I had lots of breeders and dog folks steer me to reseach that explained to me just how much crap I was feeding my dog.....yeah, soybean hulls is a great nutrient for a canine. I learned by asking others who were more experienced dog owners. As I said to the OP, I think her dog food choice is fairly decent.....my opinions on the other ones mentioned...simply my opinion, sorry if that upsets you.

Bluey
Jan. 4, 2009, 08:18 PM
When we talk any about dog food, the fanatics always bring That Magazine to try to prove their point.
In reality, there is no real research, just excellent marketing, testimonials and junk science behind much of what people today consider "good" dog foods.

That is my opinion, take what you want, leave what you don't want.;)

dalpal
Jan. 4, 2009, 08:21 PM
When we talk any about dog food, the fanatics always bring That Magazine to try to prove their point.
In reality, there is no real research, just excellent marketing, testimonials and junk science behind much of what people today consider "good" dog foods.

That is my opinion, take what you want, leave what you don't want.;)




:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

It is a pretty damn good magazine too. :lol:

siegi b.
Jan. 4, 2009, 08:21 PM
As leakyb suggested, go to www.dogfoodanalysis.com and check it out. Science Diet does not have really good ingredients but they had a good marketing staff and got to the vets' offices first. Most vets (99.9%) are not nutritionists and I wouldn't dream of asking them for a diet for my small animals.

All of my pups used to get raised on Solid Gold Hundchenflocken until they were 6 months old, then we switched to Kirkland Lamb and Rice (by the way, they were not part of the melamine scare - I e-mailed them and asked the directly).

Apparently Solid Gold was recently sold and with that came big increases in price. My dogs love the Green Tripe canned food which recently went from $2.78 to $3.26 a can at my store. Combine that with the fact that the Hundchenflocken puppy chow is now $54.00 for a 33lb bag and I just told them to cross me off their customer list. Also, Solid Gold recently recalled several products for mold - one of them a dry treat! The green tripe went from having a chunky, solid consistency to a watery concoction and you can't get away from thinking that they're trying to cut corners AND raise prices. No, thank you!

I am so glad my puppy just turned 6 months old!! :-) The other three older dogs love their Kirkland kibble as well as the beef heart, liver, pigs' feet, etc. mom "hunts up" for them on a regular basis.

dalpal
Jan. 4, 2009, 08:25 PM
[QUOTE=siegi b.;3777344]As leakyb suggested, go to www.dogfoodanalysis.com and check it out. Science Diet does not have really good ingredients but they had a good marketing staff and got to the vets' offices first. Most vets (99.9%) are not nutritionists and I wouldn't dream of asking them for a diet for my small animals.

QUOTE]

Thank you.....exactly.

Personal Champ
Jan. 4, 2009, 08:34 PM
When I got my poodle, I decided to go with the Solid Gold Hundenflocken (sp??) puppy. He HATED it. He would eat it, instantly get diarrhea, vomit, smelly ears, the whole shebang. It got to the point where he wouldn't eat it, I swear he knew it made him sick. Thankfully I bought a small bag and gave it away.

We then went to the Nature's Variety Chicken. The one with the raw coating. He ate that more willingly, but his poop still was intermittently runny and he would vomit occasionally.

Enter the Royal Canin Mini Puppy food. He did really well on it and ate that until he was a year old, but he would still vomit occasionally (this dog was NEVER unsupervised loose, and didn't get into anything that would make him puke), and his ears would still kinda smell and require cleaning regularly. I looked into their poodle formula, but we moved and it was a pain in the ass to get around here.

Dog now eats IAMS (flame suit on) and does EXCELLENT on it. Great coat, no vomiting, haven't cleaned his ears in a year.

Whatever works for your dog. :yes:

dalpal
Jan. 4, 2009, 08:51 PM
When I got my poodle, I decided to go with the Solid Gold Hundenflocken (sp??) puppy. He HATED it. He would eat it, instantly get diarrhea, vomit, smelly ears, the whole shebang. It got to the point where he wouldn't eat it, I swear he knew it made him sick. Thankfully I bought a small bag and gave it away.

We then went to the Nature's Variety Chicken. The one with the raw coating. He ate that more willingly, but his poop still was intermittently runny and he would vomit occasionally.

Enter the Royal Canin Mini Puppy food. He did really well on it and ate that until he was a year old, but he would still vomit occasionally (this dog was NEVER unsupervised loose, and didn't get into anything that would make him puke), and his ears would still kinda smell and require cleaning regularly. I looked into their poodle formula, but we moved and it was a pain in the ass to get around here.

Dog now eats IAMS (flame suit on) and does EXCELLENT on it. Great coat, no vomiting, haven't cleaned his ears in a year.

Whatever works for your dog. :yes:

LOL! No flames...we have a dog like this at our barn.....he does well on a yograt based food that his owner gets him at the grocery store. Dogs with stomach issues can be tricky and when you find what works, you stick with it.

For the record, I'm just thrilled that so many dogs have good homes and are fed/taken care of. I only give my two cents on nutrition when people ask questions. With so many many dogs being euthanzied in this country, I'm just happy hearing that we all have happy dogs who get meals daily.

Bluey
Jan. 4, 2009, 08:55 PM
About maybe, oh, some 30 years ago, Science Diet being the only "name" dog brand, Iams was started and competed with it.
That was long before all the new dog food companies we have today.
We got a rottie puppy and the breeder insisted Iams was better and what we needed to be feeding.

So, we got Iams Eukanuba for the puppy and our other dogs too.
That was before puppy foods also.
Well, one of our toy poodles started having runny eyes and they ran very reddish, so we went back to Science Diet with all dogs then and that stopped.
Later our vet told us there was red dye in that product and that is what was causing the problem.

As you say, whatever works for your dog, that is the best.

The one vet in our dog club that is a nutritionist specialist also has told us when asked that, for normal dogs, to change foods at thimes is a good idea and you can find then eventually what works best for your dog.
One reason, not all dog foods are made the same and if one doesn't has all your dog needs, maybe the next one will.
Remember, many of our dogs are performance dogs in hard use, from obedience to agility, to SAR, theraphy, to some field and tracking dogs.
Nutrition is important if they are to be sound and ready to train, work and stay sound and healthy.

The one warning that vet tells us is that if we feed normal dogs the specialty foods like lamb, duck, potato and such, that are really for dogs with allergies, then if your dog becomes allergic to some foods, you won't have much else to go to, as your dog may be sensitive by then to even those ingredients, that used to be the ones to go to.

May07Bride
Jan. 4, 2009, 09:02 PM
All of my pups used to get raised on Solid Gold Hundchenflocken until they were 6 months old, then we switched to Kirkland Lamb and Rice (by the way, they were not part of the melamine scare - I e-mailed them and asked the directly).

Apparently Solid Gold was recently sold and with that came big increases in price. My dogs love the Green Tripe canned food which recently went from $2.78 to $3.26 a can at my store. Combine that with the fact that the Hundchenflocken puppy chow is now $54.00 for a 33lb bag and I just told them to cross me off their customer list. Also, Solid Gold recently recalled several products for mold - one of them a dry treat! The green tripe went from having a chunky, solid consistency to a watery concoction and you can't get away from thinking that they're trying to cut corners AND raise prices. No, thank you!

I am so glad my puppy just turned 6 months old!! :-) The other three older dogs love their Kirkland kibble as well as the beef heart, liver, pigs' feet, etc. mom "hunts up" for them on a regular basis.

This is so great to read. I would guess that my pups have been on Solid Gold 90% of the time, so I am glad to see this. I am still amazed at how similar the ingredients are for the price. My mom also has 3 dogs that she feeds Solid Gold and she told me about that recent price hike too. It's so crazy.

Bluey
Jan. 4, 2009, 09:08 PM
This is so great to read. I would guess that my pups have been on Solid Gold 90% of the time, so I am glad to see this. I am still amazed at how similar the ingredients are for the price. My mom also has 3 dogs that she feeds Solid Gold and she told me about that recent price hike too. It's so crazy.

My rat terrier came from the breeder with a sack of Nutro Ultra.
After that, I tried Solid Gold, that was over 2 years ago and it didn't agree with her at all, so back to Nutro we went.

All those stories just tell us that no matter how fancy the food, if it doesn't agree with a dog, the dog needs something else.

May07Bride
Jan. 4, 2009, 09:39 PM
My rat terrier came from the breeder with a sack of Nutro Ultra.
After that, I tried Solid Gold, that was over 2 years ago and it didn't agree with her at all, so back to Nutro we went.

All those stories just tell us that no matter how fancy the food, if it doesn't agree with a dog, the dog needs something else.

Well sure. I don't think anyone advocates feeding a dog something that doesn't agree with them... but there are MANY options for high quality food. Just because one doesn't work, doesn't mean you say screw it and go back to Kroger Aisle 5 Kibble.

Oakstable
Jan. 4, 2009, 09:51 PM
We adopted a Dobie female last spring. Her owner had her on the cheapest dog food Walmart stocked. Her coat was dull and rough.

Now she is on Canadae with our other Dobie and their coats are velveteen. They look like seals.

TBJumper514
Jan. 4, 2009, 11:18 PM
I was feeding Innova EVO for a while, but it was difficult to find. I switched to Blue Buffalo Chicken and Brown rice, and my dogs(2 Staffordshire Bull Terriers and a Pit Bull mix) look wonderful on it. It's quality dog food, and easily accessible at PetsMart. Of course, it's not cheap, but my 4 y/o Staffie is a picky eater with a sensitive stomach so when something works I stick with it! I don't think we have Costco around here, but it would be nice to find a decent dog food at a better price.

dalpal
Jan. 4, 2009, 11:48 PM
Well sure. I don't think anyone advocates feeding a dog something that doesn't agree with them... but there are MANY options for high quality food. Just because one doesn't work, doesn't mean you say screw it and go back to Kroger Aisle 5 Kibble.


You are absolutley correct. :yes:

NancyM
Jan. 5, 2009, 12:17 PM
My darling hubby has sled dogs, a pet team of a dozen. He has done a LOT of research on dogfood, he's an overachiever. The wrong dog food for these mutts results in digestive upset, even though, being alaskan huskies, they are actually dogs of mixed breeds, not "purebred" Kennel Club registered. We have used dog food flown across the country, as it was considered the ONLY type that was possible, at $60 per bag. Now, we are using Costco Lamb and Rice (I know, because I am sent to buy the stuff regularly). The Costco Chicken however, has not proved as good as the Lamb stuff though, so we only buy the Lamb. So, according to my hubby, it is a quality and cheaper alternative to high end dog foods for performance animals.

Buffyblue
Jan. 5, 2009, 01:46 PM
I've been hearing such wonderful things about the Innova foods for dogs, so I went out and bought a smallish bag for $26.00. Puppy Aussie wouldn't touch it. Older Aussie finally ate a bowl of it and the next day had rampant diarrhea! So much for trying to upgrade their diet! It's back to Blue Buffalo for us!

wlrottge
Jan. 5, 2009, 03:34 PM
Does anyone here feed the Nutrena Loyal line? I have several friends on it and they all like it. Our puppy should be ready to be picked up in a couple of months and I'm doing my typical OCD researching. Long gone are the days when the only food was Iams and Ol' Roy... too many choices!!

Did they change the laws so that pet food, like human food has the most common ingredients listed first?

Our puppy-to-be is a giant breed and from what I'm reading they need to be on puppy food till they're two!!

I'm going to guess that it won't fare well in the reviews b/c of the corn.

Nutrena - Loyal puppy.
Metabolizable energy:
3897 kcal/kg
382 kcal/cup


INGREDIENTS
Poultry by-product meal (natural source of glucosamine and omega-6 fatty acids), brewers rice, whole wheat, poultry fat (naturally preserved with mixed tocopherols), corn gluten meal, whole corn, beet pulp, natural chicken flavoring, menhaden fish meal (natural source of glucosamine), vegetable oil, flaxseed (natural source of omega-3 fatty acids), spray-dried egg, aspergillus meal (natural source of glucosamine), bentonite, potassium chloride, salt, calcium propionate (a preservative), dried brewers yeast, yucca schidigera extract, vitamins (vitamin E supplement, vitamin A supplement, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin B12 supplement, niacin supplement, riboflavin supplement, calcium pantothenate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, biotin, thiamine, menadione sodium bisulfite complex, folic acid), minerals (zinc amino acid complex, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, iron amino acid complex, copper sulfate, manganese amino acid complex, manganese sulfate, ethylenediamine dihyroiodide, sodium selenite)

Murphy's Mom
Jan. 5, 2009, 03:57 PM
I'm feeding Canidae All Life Stages which rates 5 stars on that site to my four cattle dogs. It's spendy, but I'm stretching it with additional rice. I might start buying some of the Kirkland food to mix with the Canidae. Supposedly Kirkland is owned by the same company that owns Canidae and Diamond. My dogs look great, but cattle dogs are pretty easy keepers.

Simkie
Jan. 5, 2009, 04:00 PM
Does anyone here feed the Nutrena Loyal line? I have several friends on it and they all like it. Our puppy should be ready to be picked up in a couple of months and I'm doing my typical OCD researching. Long gone are the days when the only food was Iams and Ol' Roy... too many choices!!

Did they change the laws so that pet food, like human food has the most common ingredients listed first?

Our puppy-to-be is a giant breed and from what I'm reading they need to be on puppy food till they're two!!

I'm going to guess that it won't fare well in the reviews b/c of the corn.

Nutrena - Loyal puppy.
Metabolizable energy:
3897 kcal/kg
382 kcal/cup


INGREDIENTS
Poultry by-product meal (natural source of glucosamine and omega-6 fatty acids), brewers rice, whole wheat, poultry fat (naturally preserved with mixed tocopherols), corn gluten meal, whole corn, beet pulp, natural chicken flavoring, menhaden fish meal (natural source of glucosamine), vegetable oil, flaxseed (natural source of omega-3 fatty acids), spray-dried egg, aspergillus meal (natural source of glucosamine), bentonite, potassium chloride, salt, calcium propionate (a preservative), dried brewers yeast, yucca schidigera extract, vitamins (vitamin E supplement, vitamin A supplement, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin B12 supplement, niacin supplement, riboflavin supplement, calcium pantothenate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, biotin, thiamine, menadione sodium bisulfite complex, folic acid), minerals (zinc amino acid complex, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, iron amino acid complex, copper sulfate, manganese amino acid complex, manganese sulfate, ethylenediamine dihyroiodide, sodium selenite)

Ugh. All grain and byproducts. No. I would not feed this to my dogs.

wlrottge
Jan. 5, 2009, 04:14 PM
Ugh. All grain and byproducts. No. I would not feed this to my dogs.

I understand this is their own advertising propoganda, but.... they make an interesting case. (Note: Not defending, but saying that this logic makes sense)

From http://www.loyallpetfood.com/Screens/FAQs/FAQs.aspx

"I see different things about “grains” for pets. Are grains bad?

Grains are not “bad” for your pet. Some individual animals can have food allergies or sensitivity which may affect how they respond to specific grains. In the Loyall™ lineup of products, you will find selections of different grain sources that will help you select what is right for your companion.

Grains deliver starch and specific fatty acids and fiber to the diet that is important in the overall nutrition package of the diet."

and

"Some diets have “real meat”. Is that important to my pet?

The term “real” suggests that others use “fake” meat. Sounds kinda like veggie burgers maybe? In reality, the use of “meat” can be used to pull the wool over the customer’s eyes. “Meat” contains a LOT of water. In fact, most meats contain around 70% water. When petfoods are baked, that water must be harshly cooked to make it evaporate ... otherwise, your petfood would mold. Some companies chose to use “meat” as the first ingredient on the label. In some cases, this may mean that there is about 20% of a formula that is made of meat. After cooking the water off, this “meat” only contributes around 6 to 8% of the final product meaning that its final contribution to the diet is much less than the second, third, fourth, or in some cases the fifth ingredient on the actual label. We won’t do that to you. We use animal proteins that are concentrated into high content proteins, fats, and minerals, meaning that the label is really telling you the order of ingredient that your companion will experience."

dalpal
Jan. 5, 2009, 05:36 PM
I've been hearing such wonderful things about the Innova foods for dogs, so I went out and bought a smallish bag for $26.00. Puppy Aussie wouldn't touch it. Older Aussie finally ate a bowl of it and the next day had rampant diarrhea! So much for trying to upgrade their diet! It's back to Blue Buffalo for us!

Innova is a very rich food....I've always heard it will put weight on a dog. I tried the canned for my guys and they too, had runny stools. The Evo gave two really strong gas.

dalpal
Jan. 5, 2009, 05:37 PM
Does anyone here feed the Nutrena Loyal line? I have several friends on it and they all like it. Our puppy should be ready to be picked up in a couple of months and I'm doing my typical OCD researching. Long gone are the days when the only food was Iams and Ol' Roy... too many choices!!

Did they change the laws so that pet food, like human food has the most common ingredients listed first?

Our puppy-to-be is a giant breed and from what I'm reading they need to be on puppy food till they're two!!

I'm going to guess that it won't fare well in the reviews b/c of the corn.

Nutrena - Loyal puppy.
Metabolizable energy:
3897 kcal/kg
382 kcal/cup


INGREDIENTS
Poultry by-product meal (natural source of glucosamine and omega-6 fatty acids), brewers rice, whole wheat, poultry fat (naturally preserved with mixed tocopherols), corn gluten meal, whole corn, beet pulp, natural chicken flavoring, menhaden fish meal (natural source of glucosamine), vegetable oil, flaxseed (natural source of omega-3 fatty acids), spray-dried egg, aspergillus meal (natural source of glucosamine), bentonite, potassium chloride, salt, calcium propionate (a preservative), dried brewers yeast, yucca schidigera extract, vitamins (vitamin E supplement, vitamin A supplement, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin B12 supplement, niacin supplement, riboflavin supplement, calcium pantothenate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, biotin, thiamine, menadione sodium bisulfite complex, folic acid), minerals (zinc amino acid complex, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, iron amino acid complex, copper sulfate, manganese amino acid complex, manganese sulfate, ethylenediamine dihyroiodide, sodium selenite)

I personally wouldn't buy it because of the first ingredient...the first ingredient should be MEAT, not a meat by product. I stopped reading after the 1st ingredient. Out of curiousity, what are they charging for this. The Costco is a MUCH better food than this.

Simkie
Jan. 5, 2009, 05:37 PM
Their logic really *doesn't* make sense.

Dogs are carnivores. They need to eat meat. They *don't* need large amounts of fiber. You can get all the fatty acids you need from meat.

And their whole thing about "meat" certainly pertains to meat MEAL. Byproducts aren't MEAT. They're what's left over after the meat is used.

Their food is incredibly grain heavy with little actual meat. It's a kibble for a mouse, not a dog :no:

Simkie
Jan. 5, 2009, 05:39 PM
Innova is a very rich food....I've always heard it will put weight on a dog. I tried the canned for my guys and they too, had runny stools. The Evo gave two really strong gas.

Regular Innova (the original green bag, now called "large bites" or something) has the highest kcal per cup of ANY food I've been able to find--often nearly double of other premium foods. I love it because I feed less.

Just like people and horses, it often boils down to the number of calories you're feeding.

dalpal
Jan. 5, 2009, 05:49 PM
Regular Innova (the original green bag, now called "large bites" or something) has the highest kcal per cup of ANY food I've been able to find--often nearly double of other premium foods. I love it because I feed less.

Just like people and horses, it often boils down to the number of calories you're feeding.

Interesting.....my favorite kibble has always been Canidae

Buffyblue
Jan. 5, 2009, 05:53 PM
That's what I bought! The green bag! My older Aussie actually could lose 5 pounds, and my vet just told me to get the puppy off puppy food. I don't know - it's all so confusing. My friend has dogs with skin allergies and has put them on some kind of dehydrated raw food that you add water to. I tried that and they ate it, but it was nasty! EWW! Green goo!!

TrakeGirl
Jan. 5, 2009, 06:00 PM
There was an email forwarded around about a year ago where dog food were rated on an A-F scale (out of 100 points, 90-100 A, etc). The food got points for stuff like whole grains and got pointed subtracted for by products, etc.

I was shocked to find my Science Diet got a meager "C" rating.

The Costco stuff rated an "A" - while some of the other really nice ones that people are talking about rated A+ or A++. "A" was good enough for me compared to what they had been eating!!!

I switched over and have never looked back. My 3 dogs all love the Chicken and Veggies from Kirkland/Costco. And it is so much better for them. And economical to boot.

Simkie
Jan. 5, 2009, 06:17 PM
That's what I bought! The green bag! My older Aussie actually could lose 5 pounds, and my vet just told me to get the puppy off puppy food. I don't know - it's all so confusing. My friend has dogs with skin allergies and has put them on some kind of dehydrated raw food that you add water to. I tried that and they ate it, but it was nasty! EWW! Green goo!!

If you're switching from something high in carbs, then going to Innova very well could lead to weight loss even though it's high in calories. I find that I'm able to keep my dogs in perfect weight much easier with the Innova than when I fed PetSmart quality food (granted it's been about 12 years!)

I have found, though, that dogs that have been on regular quality food can have some issues transitioning to Innova. It *is* very rich. If your dogs have trouble with Innova, California Natural is a good stepping stone up to a higher quality food (or just leave them on the Cal Nat--it's *wonderful* for allergy prone animals.)

Natura Pet has an excellent website with a ton of info: www.naturapet.com (http://www.naturapet.com)

RedMare01
Jan. 5, 2009, 06:27 PM
Wellness is also a very good product.

Their CORE line rates a 6/6 and the regular Wellness line a 5/6. It's pricey, but not as bad as some of the others mentioned here.

Caitlin

dalpal
Jan. 5, 2009, 06:30 PM
Wellness is also a very good product.

Their CORE line rates a 6/6 and the regular Wellness line a 5/6. It's pricey, but not as bad as some of the others mentioned here.

Caitlin

Wellness is awesome...the only one that I tried/didn't like was the Senior....it was very, very dry.

Curb Appeal
Jan. 5, 2009, 06:35 PM
After getting a recommendation from our vet, we put our 9 year old adopted greyhound/lab mix to the Kirkland Senior food. He has grained some much needed weight and his coat has improved dramatically. I don't know what his previous owners were feeding him.

wlrottge
Jan. 5, 2009, 07:13 PM
Their logic really *doesn't* make sense.

Dogs are carnivores. They need to eat meat. They *don't* need large amounts of fiber. You can get all the fatty acids you need from meat.

And their whole thing about "meat" certainly pertains to meat MEAL. Byproducts aren't MEAT. They're what's left over after the meat is used.

Their food is incredibly grain heavy with little actual meat. It's a kibble for a mouse, not a dog :no:

So, how do you determine what the REAL #1 ingredient is? Is that by weight before or after cooking? They are correct, if the feed is left too wet, it will mold/become rancid. What WAS the #1 ingredient (if calculated before cooking) will move further down the list since all the water was removed. I'm sure how this is estimated is different from one brand to another. I did call Innova and ask just that question. Their ingredients are calculated on a "as feed" basis, w/o polling all the other makers... who knows, some may be "cheating".

I'm not defending Nutrena, but I am saying that more research needs to be done before just shooting one down in favor of another. After talking to Innova, i'd have no issue feedind their products b/c of what they told me.

http://www.loyallpetfood.com/documents/pbpm%20sheet.pdf

The dog food analysis site is quite interesting. You can see how a feed like Nutrena Loyal can be considered "premium" compared to "normal" off the shelf food.

Like this:
Ingredients
Corn, soybean meal, ground wheat flour, beef and bone meal, animal fat (BHA used as preservatives), corn syrup, wheat middlings, water sufficient for processing, beef, animal digest, propylene glycol, salt, hydrochloric acid, caramel color, potassium chloride, sorbic acid (used as a preservative), sodium carbonate, choline chloride, minerals (ferrous sulfate, zinc oxide, manganous oxide, copper sulfate, calcium iodate, sodium selenite), titanium dioxide, vitamins (vitamin E supplement, niacin supplement, vitamin A supplement, d-calcium pantothenate, riboflavin supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, thiamine mononitrate, vitamin D3 supplement, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12 supplement), calcium sulfate, red 40, yellow 5, yellow 6, BHA (used as a preservative), dl-methionine.

or:
Whole grain corn, poultry by-product meal, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E), corn gluten meal, meat and bone meal, brewers rice, soybean meal, barley, whole grain wheat, animal digest, calcium carbonate, salt, calcium phosphate, potassium chloride, L-Lysine monohydrochloride, choline chloride, zinc sulfate, Vitamin E supplement, zinc proteinate, ferrous sulfate, added color (Red 40, Yellow 5, Blue 2, Yellow 6), DL-Methionine, manganese sulfate, manganese proteinate, niacin, Vitamin A supplement, copper sulfate, calcium pantothenate, copper proteinate, garlic oil, pyridoxine hydrochloride, Vitamin B-12 supplement, thiamine mononitrate, Vitamin D-3 supplement, riboflavin supplement, calcium iodate, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), folic acid, biotin, sodium selenite.
S-4101

Both of which would be considered "normal" off the shelf gorcery store brands.

pintopiaffe
Jan. 5, 2009, 07:44 PM
Purely anecdotal, when I had one dog, I had to feed Fromm. He was... we'll call it "gifted" shall we? :lol: On anything but Fromm he was a huge spaz. Fromm was like Ritalin for him. Or raw/whole food... but most commercial dog foods were like crack.

I have three parvo survivors (long story, mother had it when I got her, wasn't spayed due to my Mum's brain surgery, pups were vax, but vax doesn't work if they're still nursing!) ANYWAY...

I also had a special dog. Special dog could get no artificial stuff. Did FABULOUS on Sam's Club Chicken & Rice or Lamb & Rice. As do the others.

When I switch feed, the brothers fight. It's happened enough times that it proves it to me by default. Iams, fight. Cheap lamb & rice food, fight. The only other food I could feed was WalMart's now deceased "Maxximum" premium house chook n' rice--and I'm guessing it was the same food bagged for WallyWorld vs. Sam's--ingredients identical.

Most recently lost special dog, switched others to a 'coat and skin' decent food, but a step down from the Sam's... had two fights. :sigh:

Not going of the Sam's any time soon. It's not the cheapest, but it's way cheaper than Fromm, (which I'm not even sure you can get anymore?)

Simkie
Jan. 5, 2009, 07:50 PM
The dog food analysis site is quite interesting. You can see how a feed like Nutrena Loyal can be considered "premium" compared to "normal" off the shelf food.


I would not consider ANY food with meat by products as the main protein source or that contains corn or wheat or soy to be premium. Period. Perhaps my line is in a different place than other people.

I absolutely believe that feeding my animals "ultra-premium" food has made them considerably healthier than they would have been on "okay" food and that my money has been well spent on Innova. It's really not that expensive, when you consider how little they need to eat to stay in condition (one dog gets 2 c a day, the other gets 3 c a day, and they both weigh in at 70 lbs.)

Perhaps others can make poorer quality food work for their animals. I can't and I won't sacrifice their health for my wallet.

EquineLVR
Jan. 5, 2009, 07:52 PM
I recently switched from Nutros to this:

http://www.bluebuff.com/products/dogs/lp-adult-lamb.shtml

really like it - the dogs love it.

dalpal
Jan. 5, 2009, 10:56 PM
So, how do you determine what the REAL #1 ingredient is? Is that by weight before or after cooking? They are correct, if the feed is left too wet, it will mold/become rancid. What WAS the #1 ingredient (if calculated before cooking) will move further down the list since all the water was removed. I'm sure how this is estimated is different from one brand to another. I did call Innova and ask just that question. Their ingredients are calculated on a "as feed" basis, w/o polling all the other makers... who knows, some may be "cheating".

I'm not defending Nutrena, but I am saying that more research needs to be done before just shooting one down in favor of another. After talking to Innova, i'd have no issue feedind their products b/c of what they told me.

http://www.loyallpetfood.com/documents/pbpm%20sheet.pdf

The dog food analysis site is quite interesting. You can see how a feed like Nutrena Loyal can be considered "premium" compared to "normal" off the shelf food.

Like this:
Ingredients
Corn, soybean meal, ground wheat flour, beef and bone meal, animal fat (BHA used as preservatives), corn syrup, wheat middlings, water sufficient for processing, beef, animal digest, propylene glycol, salt, hydrochloric acid, caramel color, potassium chloride, sorbic acid (used as a preservative), sodium carbonate, choline chloride, minerals (ferrous sulfate, zinc oxide, manganous oxide, copper sulfate, calcium iodate, sodium selenite), titanium dioxide, vitamins (vitamin E supplement, niacin supplement, vitamin A supplement, d-calcium pantothenate, riboflavin supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, thiamine mononitrate, vitamin D3 supplement, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12 supplement), calcium sulfate, red 40, yellow 5, yellow 6, BHA (used as a preservative), dl-methionine.

or:
Whole grain corn, poultry by-product meal, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E), corn gluten meal, meat and bone meal, brewers rice, soybean meal, barley, whole grain wheat, animal digest, calcium carbonate, salt, calcium phosphate, potassium chloride, L-Lysine monohydrochloride, choline chloride, zinc sulfate, Vitamin E supplement, zinc proteinate, ferrous sulfate, added color (Red 40, Yellow 5, Blue 2, Yellow 6), DL-Methionine, manganese sulfate, manganese proteinate, niacin, Vitamin A supplement, copper sulfate, calcium pantothenate, copper proteinate, garlic oil, pyridoxine hydrochloride, Vitamin B-12 supplement, thiamine mononitrate, Vitamin D-3 supplement, riboflavin supplement, calcium iodate, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), folic acid, biotin, sodium selenite.
S-4101

Both of which would be considered "normal" off the shelf gorcery store brands.


No Nutrena doesn't come close to premium...sorry.

Here's a premium label.....it's one of Wellness's foods...notice that the primary ingredient IS meat and no fillers


Deboned Chicken, Deboned Whitefish, Chicken Meal, Oatmeal, Ground Peas, Ground Barley, Ground Brown Rice, Tomato Pomace, Salmon Meal, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols, a natural source of Vitamin E), Tomatoes, Natural Chicken Flavor, Ground Flaxseed, Carrots, Spinach, Sweet Potatoes, Apples, Blueberries, Minerals [Zinc Sulfate, Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Copper Proteinate, Copper Sulfate, Manganese Proteinate, Manganese Sulfate, Sodium Selenite], Vitamins [Beta-Carotene, Vitamin E Supplement, Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C), Vitamin A Supplement, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin, Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin B-12 Supplement], Glucosamine Hydrochloride, Chondroitin Sulfate, Choline Chloride, Taurine, Chicory Root Extract, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Mixed Tocopherols (a natural preservative), Dried Lactobacillus plantarum, Enterococcus faecium, Lactobacillus casei, Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation products.

dalpal
Jan. 5, 2009, 10:59 PM
Purely anecdotal, when I had one dog, I had to feed Fromm. He was... we'll call it "gifted" shall we? :lol: On anything but Fromm he was a huge spaz. Fromm was like Ritalin for him. Or raw/whole food... but most commercial dog foods were like crack.

I have three parvo survivors (long story, mother had it when I got her, wasn't spayed due to my Mum's brain surgery, pups were vax, but vax doesn't work if they're still nursing!) ANYWAY...

I also had a special dog. Special dog could get no artificial stuff. Did FABULOUS on Sam's Club Chicken & Rice or Lamb & Rice. As do the others.

When I switch feed, the brothers fight. It's happened enough times that it proves it to me by default. Iams, fight. Cheap lamb & rice food, fight. The only other food I could feed was WalMart's now deceased "Maxximum" premium house chook n' rice--and I'm guessing it was the same food bagged for WallyWorld vs. Sam's--ingredients identical.

Most recently lost special dog, switched others to a 'coat and skin' decent food, but a step down from the Sam's... had two fights. :sigh:

Not going of the Sam's any time soon. It's not the cheapest, but it's way cheaper than Fromm, (which I'm not even sure you can get anymore?)

www.petfooddirect.com carries Fromm

Simkie
Jan. 6, 2009, 12:01 AM
No Nutrena doesn't come close to premium...sorry.

Here's a premium label.....it's one of Wellness's foods...notice that the primary ingredient IS meat and no fillers


Deboned Chicken, Deboned Whitefish, Chicken Meal, Oatmeal, Ground Peas, Ground Barley, Ground Brown Rice, Tomato Pomace, Salmon Meal, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols, a natural source of Vitamin E), Tomatoes, Natural Chicken Flavor, Ground Flaxseed, Carrots, Spinach, Sweet Potatoes, Apples, Blueberries, Minerals [Zinc Sulfate, Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Copper Proteinate, Copper Sulfate, Manganese Proteinate, Manganese Sulfate, Sodium Selenite], Vitamins [Beta-Carotene, Vitamin E Supplement, Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C), Vitamin A Supplement, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin, Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin B-12 Supplement], Glucosamine Hydrochloride, Chondroitin Sulfate, Choline Chloride, Taurine, Chicory Root Extract, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Mixed Tocopherols (a natural preservative), Dried Lactobacillus plantarum, Enterococcus faecium, Lactobacillus casei, Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation products.

And to go ever farther (some people would say the above food has a lot of non-meat ingredients) you have something like Innova Evo (Wellness also makes a similar food called Core):

Turkey, Chicken, Turkey Meal, Chicken Meal, Potatoes, Herring Meal, Chicken Fat, Natural Flavors, Egg,Apples, Carrots, Tomatoes, Cottage Cheese, Alfalfa Sprouts, Dried Chicory Root, Taurine, Lecithin, Rosemary Extract, Vitamins/Minerals, Viable Naturally Occurring Microorganisms

wlrottge, do you see the difference?

wlrottge
Jan. 6, 2009, 12:26 PM
wlrottge, do you see the difference?

You say that sounding like you think I'm dense.

I'm an engineer and look at things from a little different perspective. 1+1 does not always equal 2 b/c in these cases, 1 is not always 1. What I'm trying to say is that until the manufacturers tell you if those weights are pre or post "cooking", you don't really know what order the ingredients are. If you really think about it from an absolute stand point, the super premium feeds are well beyond the quality of what a wild canine would eat.

Additionally, if you had to choose between Purina Dog Chow, Kibbles and Bits (the other two ingredient lists I posted) and the Nutrena Loyal feeds, tell me what you would pick? When looking at ingredients, even Iams doesn't look that good. The dog food analysis site rated all but two of their foods at one star. Even the Costco Brands got three (out of six) stars.

The breeder that we're buying from feeds Taste of the Wild and/or Evo. I plan on continuing on that program unless it does not work.

leakyb
Jan. 6, 2009, 12:40 PM
You say that sounding like you think I'm dense.

I'm an engineer and look at things from a little different perspective. 1+1 does not always equal 2 b/c in these cases, 1 is not always 1. What I'm trying to say is that until the manufacturers tell you if those weights are pre or post "cooking", you don't really know what order the ingredients are. If you really think about it from an absolute stand point, the super premium feeds are well beyond the quality of what a wild canine would eat.

Additionally, if you had to choose between Purina Dog Chow, Kibbles and Bits (the other two ingredient lists I posted) and the Nutrena Loyal feeds, tell me what you would pick? When looking at ingredients, even Iams doesn't look that good. The dog food analysis site rated all but two of their foods at one star. Even the Costco Brands got three (out of six) stars.

The breeder that we're buying from feeds Taste of the Wild and/or Evo. I plan on continuing on that program unless it does not work.

I'm the person who gave the dog analysis website info....basically, you are correct in that the real meat listed as ingredients one and two might be slightly lower after water content is taken into account. However, #3 and #4 are the meat meals which is just meat with bone ground in. I was told to look at the first 5 ingredients in a kibble and base my choice on those ingredients.

I also feed TOTW, EVO and one of the other premium kibbles.

What I find scary about the cheap foods are the mystery by products, the corn gluten meal, beet pulp, etc which are not necessary in a dog's diet. (Not to mention the melamine and other scary products exported in foods from China). If the Chinese people have sick and dying babies from the baby formula scandal, imagine what was done to pet food with no oversight?

Simkie
Jan. 6, 2009, 12:53 PM
If you really think about it from an absolute stand point, the super premium feeds are well beyond the quality of what a wild canine would eat.

How do you figure that? A wild canine would be eating mice and rabbits and bugs. A wild canine is not going to be eating 90% corn. Diets that are mostly MEAT (ie high-quality, premium kibble) are going to be far closer to what a wild canine would eat. You can get even closer to what a wild canine would eat by feeding raw.

Do you really think a wild canine eats all that grain you see in crappy food? :confused:


Additionally, if you had to choose between Purina Dog Chow, Kibbles and Bits (the other two ingredient lists I posted) and the Nutrena Loyal feeds, tell me what you would pick? When looking at ingredients, even Iams doesn't look that good. The dog food analysis site rated all but two of their foods at one star. Even the Costco Brands got three (out of six) stars.


If I had to choose between crap food and slightly less crappy food, I would make my own, or I wouldn't have dogs.

You seem to be struggling to point out that there is a whole range of quality. Yes, I know that. Nutrena Loyal is still FAR below my own personal line of acceptable. There is no circumstance where I would even consider feeding that particular food. Just because it's better than some other horrible food doesn't make it good enough for me to consider it healthy for my dogs--or any dog. That's like saying that just because a Big Mac has fewer grams of fat than a cup full of lard the Big Mac is health food. Um, no.

vineyridge
Jan. 6, 2009, 01:15 PM
Believe it or not, you can now buy Taste of the Wild dog food at Tractor Supply. On the Dogfoodanalysis site, it is given a "conditional" 6* rating. AND it is actually as cheap as the Nutro that they sell, given how much less the dogs need to eat.

My Tractor Supply has two flavors--Fowl and Salmon. I buy one bag of each and mix them when I feed. What I have noticed most when feeding high quality dog food over the high corn/high wheat dog foods is how much less other dog aggressive my bitch pack becomes.

I do free feed, so food aggression on the cheap stuff shouldn't be an issue.

Lauren!
Jan. 6, 2009, 01:29 PM
I feel like such a bad DogMommy after reading this thread :no: I've been feeding my girls Purina Beneful (1 star, and apparently the doggie version of McDonald's french fries) for years and they're shiny, bright eyed, happy, energetic dogs. I don't know what to do :confused: I don't necessarily feel like I want to change their food based on stuff I read online. More meat for dogs is common sense though, so maybe some Kirkland food is in their future - if they'll eat it... Beneful was the only thing neurotic puppy (who's now happy and well adjusted) would eat for a while. I guess there's no harm in adding some boiled hamburger into their dinner once in a while either...

Simkie
Jan. 6, 2009, 01:33 PM
I feel like such a bad DogMommy after reading this thread :no: I've been feeding my girls Purina Beneful (1 star, and apparently the doggie version of McDonald's french fries) for years and they're shiny, bright eyed, happy, energetic dogs. I don't know what to do :confused: I don't necessarily feel like I want to change their food based on stuff I read online. More meat for dogs is common sense though, so maybe some Kirkland food is in their future - if they'll eat it... Beneful was the only thing neurotic puppy (who's now happy and well adjusted) would eat for a while. I guess there's no harm in adding some boiled hamburger into their dinner once in a while either...

I encourage you to look at the label on your dog food and look up what the ingredients are if you're not sure.

A woman I work with switched her dogs off of Beneful (she actually took a nearly full bag BACK) after I explained what animal digest (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_digest) is. :dead: Last time I looked at the label, animal digest was a prominent protein source.

And I've been shocked at the improvement in my dogs when I switched from one premium food to another--I bet that if you started feeding better food, you'd see significant positive changes.

horsecrazykid
Jan. 6, 2009, 01:40 PM
it is made by diamond and it is identical to their Premium Edge food which is almost double the money. i'm talking about the kirkland chicken and rice adult. we use innova/healthwise but used the professional made by diamond for years and used the kirkland. only thing with high energy dogs, they need more to keep weight on and there is more stool, but there is more stool with the kirkland even on the same amount of the natura pet products, ie: healthwise innova. we are not the only ones who noticed it, but it is a good food. IMO far better than many.

wlrottge
Jan. 6, 2009, 02:13 PM
How do you figure that? A wild canine would be eating mice and rabbits and bugs. A wild canine is not going to be eating 90% corn. Diets that are mostly MEAT (ie high-quality, premium kibble) are going to be far closer to what a wild canine would eat. You can get even closer to what a wild canine would eat by feeding raw.

Do you really think a wild canine eats all that grain you see in crappy food? :confused:


do you think that every single day a pack of wild dogs has a kill big enough to support them? Besides hunters, they are scavengers and will eat more than just the fresh and "premium" parts of a dead animal.



If I had to choose between crap food and slightly less crappy food, I would make my own, or I wouldn't have dogs.

You seem to be struggling to point out that there is a whole range of quality. Yes, I know that. Nutrena Loyal is still FAR below my own personal line of acceptable. There is no circumstance where I would even consider feeding that particular food. Just because it's better than some other horrible food doesn't make it good enough for me to consider it healthy for my dogs--or any dog. That's like saying that just because a Big Mac has fewer grams of fat than a cup full of lard the Big Mac is health food. Um, no.

Yes, to a point, but there are people here that consider Purina Dog Chow good feed b/c it's not Ol'Roy. There are people that won't feed their dogs/horses/cats/whatever high quality feeds, regardless of what you tell them. There are also people that want to do right by their animals and will feed a "better" feed than Kibbles and Bits but won't go all the way to a grain free ration. For those people, the middle of the road options are better than Dog Chow, Ol'Roy... ect. You can say, "I'd never feed that or feed home made only" but realize your world is just that, yours. There are people that have higher and lower standars than your own.

It's truely not worth arguing about..... but there are gradations of quality and a market for each one. Even the ultra premium products have their own problems, so nothing is perfect and each person will choose what is best for their animal and lifestyle.

Simkie
Jan. 6, 2009, 02:23 PM
Yes, to a point, but there are people here that consider Purina Dog Chow good feed b/c it's not Ol'Roy. There are people that won't feed their dogs/horses/cats/whatever high quality feeds, regardless of what you tell them. There are also people that want to do right by their animals and will feed a "better" feed than Kibbles and Bits but won't go all the way to a grain free ration. For those people, the middle of the road options are better than Dog Chow, Ol'Roy... ect. You can say, "I'd never feed that or feed home made only" but realize your world is just that, yours. There are people that have higher and lower standars than your own.

What you seem to be failing to grasp is that just because something is better than Old Roy that does not make it a PREMIUM food.

PREMIUM means something. Calling the Nutrena Loyal food PREMIUM is laughable. It is NOT a premium food. It's--at best--a mediocre kibble. Feed it if you want but don't kid yourself about it's quality.

Frankly, if you're going to cheap out on dog food, stick with Dog Chow. The feeds like Nutrena that are marginally better are not better ENOUGH to warrant spending a little bit more on them. You're not going to see gains over Dog Chow until you start getting into the real, actual PREMIUM foods.

Auventera Two
Jan. 6, 2009, 03:40 PM
Read this website: http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/

I am a MAJOR dog food snob and my 3 (big dogs!) eat the high end premium Fromm's. I spend as much per month on dogs as I do horses. I feed 13 cups of dog food a day. Luckily Fromm is VERY easy to get here because it is manufactured in Wisconsin (well, the dry food is anyway.) The canned food is manufactured in China which I really hate, but my dogs only eat 1/3 of a can each daily so it's not as big of a deal to me.

You have to stay away from artificial colors, flavorings, and perservatives. Also stuff like "egg product" or "chicken meal." Look for foods with ONLY whole ingredients.

I pay $48 for a 30 pound bag and I am happy to do it.

After learning about Fromm's years ago, I just couldn't even consider a cheap brand of dog food at this point. I'd never sleep at night. Not saying that dogs don't live for 17 years on Ol' Roy, but I just couldn't do it.

One of my dogs developed a skin allergy (I think from eating horse poop with grain in it!) and the vet put him on Science Diet Z/D Ultra. He was on it for a year, and the dog looked HORRIBLE. His skin was so dry and flaky, his eyes were dull, and overall he just looked like he had one foot in the grave. I finally took him off of it, put him back on Fromm and he's look excellent since. Science Diet is as junk as Ol' Roy, Diamond, Alpo, etc. Ack.

Auventera Two
Jan. 6, 2009, 03:48 PM
I have a neighbor that has a small show kennel with more ribbons and trophies than anyone could imagine.

A few years ago she told me she was feeding Walmart brand food as it had the same ingredients as the higher end food. I've been feeding Ol Roy ever since and my guys look great.

I don't know if this has changed but she still has the champions and my mutts are good to go.

NO IT DOES NOT. I don't care what your friend thinks, she is highly misinformed.

Auventera Two
Jan. 6, 2009, 03:53 PM
Now she is on Canadae with our other Dobie and their coats are velveteen. They look like seals.

That's how my Weimaraner is. Her coat is so velvety satin, petting her becomes obsessive compulsive. :lol: My other two have rougher coats anyway (hound mix, and pitbull/lab mix) so they don't get that crazy velveteen feeling, but the Weim's coat is heavenly.

Lauren!
Jan. 6, 2009, 03:54 PM
I encourage you to look at the label on your dog food and look up what the ingredients are if you're not sure.

A woman I work with switched her dogs off of Beneful (she actually took a nearly full bag BACK) after I explained what animal digest (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_digest) is. :dead: Last time I looked at the label, animal digest was a prominent protein source.

And I've been shocked at the improvement in my dogs when I switched from one premium food to another--I bet that if you started feeding better food, you'd see significant positive changes.

Ok, so "animal digest" is pretty gross :lol: I will look at the bag if we have an empty one at home and see what's in it... I just don't know what a better, yet still practical (for me... can't be more expensive (they only eat a cup 2x/day as it is, so it's unlikely they'll eat less, they are BIG dogs, just really easy keepers ;)) or difficult to acquire... pet stores aren't even open on Sunday sometimes where I live) option is going to be. Off the top of my head, Kirkland is sounding decent... no, it's not "premium", but honestly my dogs are a very happy, healthy bunch as it is... I don't really know what positive changes I could hope to see anyway. I'm kinda uneducated about doggie nutrition (and my barn cats/skunks/possums are definitely on the whatever-is-on-sale-at-Shoprite diet).

Cooking something for the dogs wouldn't be out of the question if I could, say, cook up a big batch on my day off and then keep it in the fridge to feed all week (or even freeze it), but I would be worried whatever it was wouldn't be nutritionally complete. Is there something good I can supplement their so-so kibble diet with? Cooked chopped meat? A cooked egg?

Auventera Two
Jan. 6, 2009, 03:55 PM
Ugh. All grain and byproducts. No. I would not feed this to my dogs.

Ditto. That profile is awful (Nutrena Loyal)

Auventera Two
Jan. 6, 2009, 04:00 PM
Old Roy and the cheapest of all dog foods were a huge part of the melamine recall when a lot of kibbles were tainted that were manufactured in China. Basically, if you love your dogs and cats...do not feed anything made in China.

I make an exception for the Fromm cans because they are manufacturered in a USDA regulated and inspected plant, and I've talked to high-ups at Fromm who could talk your ear off for an hour on the extremely stringent protocols, testing, inspection, and requirements that their canned food must meet. Also my dogs only eat 1/3 of a can of that, and mostly dry, which is manufactured in WI.

But NO, I would not feed Save-A-Lot Dog Chunks Made In China for $8.99 per 50 pound bag.

I think there's a difference.

dalpal
Jan. 6, 2009, 05:32 PM
You say that sounding like you think I'm dense.

I'm an engineer and look at things from a little different perspective. 1+1 does not always equal 2 b/c in these cases, 1 is not always 1. What I'm trying to say is that until the manufacturers tell you if those weights are pre or post "cooking", you don't really know what order the ingredients are. If you really think about it from an absolute stand point, the super premium feeds are well beyond the quality of what a wild canine would eat.

Additionally, if you had to choose between Purina Dog Chow, Kibbles and Bits (the other two ingredient lists I posted) and the Nutrena Loyal feeds, tell me what you would pick? When looking at ingredients, even Iams doesn't look that good. The dog food analysis site rated all but two of their foods at one star. Even the Costco Brands got three (out of six) stars.

The breeder that we're buying from feeds Taste of the Wild and/or Evo. I plan on continuing on that program unless it does not work.


None of the above, because there are many better choices out there for my guys.

dalpal
Jan. 6, 2009, 05:34 PM
I feel like such a bad DogMommy after reading this thread :no: I've been feeding my girls Purina Beneful (1 star, and apparently the doggie version of McDonald's french fries) for years and they're shiny, bright eyed, happy, energetic dogs. I don't know what to do :confused: I don't necessarily feel like I want to change their food based on stuff I read online. More meat for dogs is common sense though, so maybe some Kirkland food is in their future - if they'll eat it... Beneful was the only thing neurotic puppy (who's now happy and well adjusted) would eat for a while. I guess there's no harm in adding some boiled hamburger into their dinner once in a while either...

That is one food that I would steer clear off.....every article out there flunks that food.

Lauren!
Jan. 6, 2009, 05:38 PM
That is one food that I would steer clear off.....every article out there flunks that food.

Beneful? I started feeding it because it was literally the ONLY think Holly would eat when she went through her neurotic phase... I guess it tastes good. Can't say I ever read the bag...

Private Diamonds
Jan. 6, 2009, 05:40 PM
I have found that Eagle Pack - holistic fish formula works well on my guys. I have fed them it for over 5 years. I recently took them off of it and tried cooking for them (that was tough) I have them back on the eagle pack and they are doing well. Weight is good and their black coats are so shiney - they just look healthy. I am a big fan of you get what you pay for, I rarely go the inexpensive route, I think you set yourself up with problems if you do.

dalpal
Jan. 6, 2009, 06:01 PM
Beneful? I started feeding it because it was literally the ONLY think Holly would eat when she went through her neurotic phase... I guess it tastes good. Can't say I ever read the bag...

Yes...Beneful.....it is one food that I wouldn't feed. It is based on corn.

Ground yellow corn, chicken-by-product meal, corn gluten meal, whole wheat flour, beef tallow preserved with mixed-tocopherols (source of Vitamin E), rice flour, beef, soy flour, Minerals (tricalcium phosphate, salt, potassium chloride, dicalcium phosphate, calcium carbonate, zinc sulfate, ferrous sulfate, manganese sulfate, copper sulfate, calcium iodate, sodium selenite), sugar, sorbitol, water, animal digest, phosphoric acid, sorbic acid (a preservative), L-Lysine monohydrochloride, dried peas, dried carrots, calcium propionate (a preservative), choline chloride, Vitamins [Vitamin E, Vitamin A, niacin, Vitamin B-12, calcium pantothenate, riboflavin supplement, biotin, thiamine mononitrate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, folic acid, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), Vitamin D-3], added color (Yellow 5, Red 40, Yellow 6, Blue 2), DL-Methionine, glyceryl monostearate, garlic oil.

pintopiaffe
Jan. 6, 2009, 06:54 PM
I haven't seen any mention of Eukanuba...

Yes? No?

The Sam's Exceed is one ingredient different from it. And it's what my guys seem to do best on.

I guess I absolutely get the corn/wheat thing... but OTOH, my dogs aren't roaming all day, they're not hunting, they're not doing anything really... so much like MY diet, which needs to be adjusted when I am working out and being very physical vs. when I'm slothing around injured... I think at some point they don't NEED premium--I'm not expressing it right, because I'm not saying feed them crap because they're house dogs, but I don't think a little grain to stretch things isn't the worst case, ya know?

As far as veggies, mine adore carrots more than marrow bones. I had one who would eat tomatoes off the vine. You cannot, cannot ever convince me that dogs inherently eat NO vegetables. They DO in fact eat the stomach contents of their food, which may include grain and vegetable matter...

dalpal
Jan. 6, 2009, 06:59 PM
I haven't seen any mention of Eukanuba...

Yes? No?

The Sam's Exceed is one ingredient different from it. And it's what my guys seem to do best on.

I guess I absolutely get the corn/wheat thing... but OTOH, my dogs aren't roaming all day, they're not hunting, they're not doing anything really... so much like MY diet, which needs to be adjusted when I am working out and being very physical vs. when I'm slothing around injured... I think at some point they don't NEED premium--I'm not expressing it right, because I'm not saying feed them crap because they're house dogs, but I don't think a little grain to stretch things isn't the worst case, ya know?

As far as veggies, mine adore carrots more than marrow bones. I had one who would eat tomatoes off the vine. You cannot, cannot ever convince me that dogs inherently eat NO vegetables. They DO in fact eat the stomach contents of their food, which may include grain and vegetable matter...


One of my adult students was feeding Eukanuba. She came in one night complaining that Emma was throwing up. I asked her what she was feeding....it was Eukanuba, but she'd been on it for awhile with no problems. Then I happen to think and ask....did you just open a new bag? And sure enough she had. I gave her a ziplock bag full of Canidae and told her to try it and see what happened....and sure enough the dog stopped puking. I think this was a bit before all the recalls.

I know that I will be called a fanatic again...LOL!, but I will only use a feed off of the Whole Dog Journal List....primarily Canidae.

I agree with you on veggies and even grains.....mine are notorious for eating spilled horse grain......but, I won't touch a dog food filled with corn and other grains..........there's no benefit to it.

Think of it this way.....even if you aren't working out, you should still eat well. Sitting around and then eating fastfood all the time isn't healthy either. You can always do a Lite formula for dogs who do not need alot of calories.

Simkie
Jan. 6, 2009, 07:03 PM
I haven't seen any mention of Eukanuba...

Yes? No?

I would not feed this (http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/showproduct.php?product=107&cat=all) (2 star)


I guess I absolutely get the corn/wheat thing... but OTOH, my dogs aren't roaming all day, they're not hunting, they're not doing anything really... so much like MY diet, which needs to be adjusted when I am working out and being very physical vs. when I'm slothing around injured... I think at some point they don't NEED premium--I'm not expressing it right, because I'm not saying feed them crap because they're house dogs, but I don't think a little grain to stretch things isn't the worst case, ya know?But we're not talking the difference between feeding an athlete "the perfect" diet (whatever that would be) and what the rest of us eat. We're talking about feeding McDonalds vs feeding a balanced, healthy diet. No, it's definitely not good enough for an athlete, but it will actually do harm to just about anything. (I'm talking about Beneful, Dog Chow etc...not the CostCo food. I think the CostCo food is a good option...)


As far as veggies, mine adore carrots more than marrow bones. I had one who would eat tomatoes off the vine. You cannot, cannot ever convince me that dogs inherently eat NO vegetables. They DO in fact eat the stomach contents of their food, which may include grain and vegetable matter...I've seen dogs classes as omnivores and classed as carnivores. They are NOT obligate carnivores like kitties (kitties *really* shouldn't have any grain.) Some good fruits and veggies are good for dogs, but their diet should be primarily meat.

pintopiaffe
Jan. 6, 2009, 07:17 PM
DalPal, nah... not fanatic.

The more I learn, the more I *want* to go whole food, organic for me AND all my critters. It's just not 100% possible, the main barrier for me being financial.

So we learn, we ask questions and we do our best. ;)

And the cat is prolly screwed. He ADORES the freaking Chookn'rice stuff. CLAWS into the bag until I open it. Likes it better than cat food... :uhoh: Good Lord, it'll prolly kill him, huh?

dalpal
Jan. 6, 2009, 07:31 PM
DalPal, nah... not fanatic.

The more I learn, the more I *want* to go whole food, organic for me AND all my critters. It's just not 100% possible, the main barrier for me being financial.

So we learn, we ask questions and we do our best. ;)

And the cat is prolly screwed. He ADORES the freaking Chookn'rice stuff. CLAWS into the bag until I open it. Likes it better than cat food... :uhoh: Good Lord, it'll prolly kill him, huh?


Piaffe.....out of curiosity, what does your current dog food cost you? And the cat, yeah....mine only want one thing....California Natural......they will not touch anything else.

Sing Mia Song
Jan. 6, 2009, 07:32 PM
For those that mentioned their dogs having vomiting or diarrhea (or any sort of GI upset) when switching foods: when switching any diet, you should do it gradually, over the course of a week. Some dogs (and cats, and horses) can handle the abrupt shift, but many cannot.

I was called last spring for an interview on saving money on pet care, and one of the main things that immediately leapt to mind was when people switch food in an effort to save money. They frequently wind up spending a whole lot more money when the dog develops gastroenteritis.

Remember--this is the SOLE source of nutrition for your animal. It's not like you or me having one rich, cream-laden dinner that can be balanced by a salad for lunch. When your dog/cat/horse has been eating the same thing for weeks, months or years, their system is bound to object at a sudden change.

pintopiaffe
Jan. 6, 2009, 09:05 PM
Yesterday the Exceed was $23 for 44lbs.

That will last me about 10 days or so.

dalpal
Jan. 6, 2009, 09:10 PM
Yesterday the Exceed was $23 for 44lbs.

That will last me about 10 days or so.

That's pretty good/hard to beat. I was looking at the Beneful price on Petfooddirect and couldn't believe that it was 35.00 for 35 pounds??????? You can buy Canidae for almost the same price.

But I don't think I can top the Exceed price.

murphyluv
Jan. 6, 2009, 11:29 PM
I worked for a doggy day care- my boss was constantly telling people not to feed Purina and all that stuff- and yet she was feeding Eukanuba or something similar like that, and her dogs had diarrea ALL the time. Canidae was a 15 min. drive away, and her dogs do well on it. Go figure.

I am a bit of a snob- I'll admit. I am just flabbergasted at what crap goes into petfood, let alone OUR food. If you read Fast Food Nation, or do other research, it is amazing how greedy some of these big companies are, just use whatever is cheapest to make a quick buck. Sure, these dog food companies have "research" to back up what they are feeding, but notice how they paid for it? Same thing in the horse world.
If you call them up and ask, (which a friend did) Eukanuba sprays their kibble with a solution of sugar/salt so the dogs will actually eat it. If you have to bribe them into eating it, what does that say?
Then again, there are quality dog foods out there that just don't work for every dog. Solid Gold for example- my dog would not eat it. It tastes like cardboard, and I had problems getting a bag with a good expiration date!!! Solid Gold is also better for certain breeds. If you think about it, genetics could have a lot to do with what a dog does best on.
But seriously, I have friends, especially in this economy, who can't afford anything but grocery store brands. I have told them, when they ask, that they're not the best, but heck, at least they are feeding the animals and giving them a good home. I have a friend who is feeding her cats grocery store brands, one cat has urinary tract infections and whatnot, but what can she do? I told her to try Purina One- I thought that might be better.
FOr those who have better brands available- like costco, or even Canidae is not too badly priced, it's all well and good, but if all you have is Purina, and your animals are healthy, who cares?
So for those who can't afford PREMIUM dog food brands- what grocery store brands are better? I told my friend to avoid Pedigree and Beneful. I saw the worst looking dogs on those- and I housesit for one now on Pedigree who, seriously, could evacuate an entire building with one fart. and has a horrible coat.

gortmore
Jan. 7, 2009, 12:30 AM
I just started my dogs on Horizon Legacy. They were getting the Costco and with the last bag they were really gassy. I switched them to the Horizon Legacy a week ago and neither is gassy now.

Does anyone know anything about this food? The ingredient list looks good.

pintopiaffe
Jan. 7, 2009, 12:43 AM
DalPal, no, the price is excellent, and the food really is a couple steps above many others. Low stool volume, happy tummies, beautiful coats, and the Special Dog did super on it (his first almost two years were spent on ground turkey and rice. )

And the boys mellow out on it. <shrugs>

It probably WILL kill the damn cat though... :uhoh:

Dance_To_Oblivion
Jan. 7, 2009, 03:40 AM
Our puppy-to-be is a giant breed and from what I'm reading they need to be on puppy food till they're two!!



What type of puppy are you getting? You are very correct in that a giant breed puppy is a bit different then a typical puppy. Before getting our now 8 month old Great Dane puppy I did a TON of research (okay...became a bit OCD about it!) about nutrition for the fast growing pups and would be happy to share some links if you like.

pintopiaffe
Jan. 7, 2009, 04:37 AM
Hm, I worked at a kennel for a couple years, owned by a vet and a top-top (ODG practically! :lol:) K9 trainer... for large-to-giants they said Puppy food for a full year, then a HIGH active dog food--not an 'adult' food per se, but a performance food.

FWIW, the KENNEL fed Fromm. It ended up being more cost effective. Less stool, less tummy issues, etc. etc. I've always held that as my standard.

Same vet said chicken cat food--chookn'rice preferably, and at the time referred Blue Seal's Kat Kare as one of the tops when I had a kitty who had bloody stools. I forget what her ultimate issue was, but have always chosen chicken foods for kitty too. The boys with urinary tract issues and the stunning creme & blue coon kitty female all really did well on it.

Auventera Two
Jan. 7, 2009, 10:52 AM
I haven't seen any mention of Eukanuba...

Yes? No?


No, I would not feed Eukanuba. It is barely better than the cheap grocery store brands. Iams is a product of slick marketing and advertising and not much more.

Our company sponsors two dog sled teams and I've visited a professional dog sled kennel in Alaska, and spent a day there. I've listened to talks by two different championship mushers from these kennels. The dogs are fed raw diets with only a little kibble. They eat mashes made of "eskimo ice cream", raw meat, fish, and fats, and a little kibble that is locally manufacturered. Many of these dogs compete until they're 11 or 12 years old, running races like the Iditarod at over 1,100 miles over 9 or so days, the Yukon Quest, Copper Basin, etc. These people are REAL dog breeders, with their dogs working for their bread and butter. Not foo foo show dogs getting a bow in their hair and sleeping on the couch all day.

I tend to pay attention to people that have worked dogs for decades and know how to feed them to keep them running, and keep them healthy in -50 below zero temperatures.

No, our companion dogs don't do a teenie fraction of the work that competition sled dogs do, but the point is that there's a healthy way to feed a dog, and and unhealthy way. And these kennels say that even their non-working, companion dogs are fed the same diet, but just less of it, because it is hands down, the healthiest.l

I feed the high end line of Fromm but I think a raw diet would be even better.

Mozart
Jan. 7, 2009, 02:42 PM
I used to feed the Kirkland dog food and was pretty happy with it (the ingredients read out pretty well) but was still having allergy problems with my golden retriever (of little brain). I tried Orijen as it is completely grain free http://www.championpetfoods.com/orijen/orijen/
and have been happy with it. He still gets a bit itchy in the winter but we are so cold and dry...every living thing itchy right now! I still top dress it with canned sardines packed in water.

Prior to posting the link I had a more thorough look at their website. Cripes, my dog is eating better than I am :eek:

didgery
Jan. 7, 2009, 02:56 PM
I've been a dog food snob in the past and switched from Precise to Innova in the early 2000s because of the lower grain content in the latter. I then switched to Kirkland chicken in about 2005 for reasons of economy, after coming to the conclusion that the ingredients weren't too bad. I've been delighted with they way my cats and dogs do on the food and I do think that it's a very good value.

If I could afford premium everything, I would eat 100% organic food and my dogs would probably be back on Innova. As it stands, I cut some corners, feed my family 75% organically and feed my pets Kirkland. We're all surviving!

Curley07
Jan. 7, 2009, 11:40 PM
Thanks everyone for sharing... I have learned a ton!

I was feeding our pitiful boxer Benneful, thinking I was doing a good thing (was one of the "better" brands sold at the local farm store). He has had issues of terrible gas (and I mean terrible!, but had heard that was a boxer thing), skin issues and thin since we got him 2 years ago (was 1.5 years old). He had a terrible worm load when we got him, with pimples around the nose, inflamed red eye membranes etc etc, but was doing better than original condition on the beneful. We just thought he lacked thriftiness, vet had thought what we were feeding him was allright. He is our first purebred, so perhaps erroneously we've been attributing his condition to lack of hybrid vigour so to speak. He gained in condition, but still not good enough for my liking.

He recently started dropping weight again (which we attributed to the fiesty & more aggressive pup I have babysat during the week for quite a few months). When the pup left a few weeks ago I bought Purina puppy chow for him. He is putting weight on and is silky smooth, so I thought I was doing well.... But, after reading this I'm thinking he's had a food problem his whole life. I just bought a Costco membership, so I'll be off to try this brand on him.

Funny... before reading this, I would have went to Costco and assumed I was doing right by purchasing the grocery brands at a better price, and would never have considered the store brand. Thanks!

The only other dog I've had personally (ie not owned by my family) was a border collie cross mix that I had for 13 years. When he was a pup, Science Diet or Iams was what they were recommending as the best foods. Times have changed!

wlrottge
Jan. 8, 2009, 05:37 PM
What type of puppy are you getting? You are very correct in that a giant breed puppy is a bit different then a typical puppy. Before getting our now 8 month old Great Dane puppy I did a TON of research (okay...became a bit OCD about it!) about nutrition for the fast growing pups and would be happy to share some links if you like.

We're getting and ISSR Shiloh Shepherd in June or July (depending on when the breeding occures). The breeder feeds Taste of the Wild and Evo but nobody around her carries either, hence why I started researching dog foods.

I found out today though that Tractor Supply carries TOTW. Right now we have to drive 45 min to get to one but hopefully by the time he arrives the new one that is closer will be open. Interestingly enough though, TOTW does not make a puppy formula.

There is a really good Shiloh forum run by the ISSR and I've been reading/researching there.

Pretttywaste
Jan. 8, 2009, 07:00 PM
I hope it's OK I post about this here...

I have always been a bit of a dog food snob in feeding my 3 (Innova/Evo, Solid Gold, Nutro Ultra), but my husband I and were at Costco a couple weeks ago after buying a 35 lbs of dog food for $50 and noticed their 40 lbs bags were $21.00 and I remembered once reading that Kirkland's own brand was actually decent. So I checked out the ingredients and I was actually quite shocked. They looked better to me than the Nutra Ultra we just purchased. So we bought a bag and slowly switched them over. They love it and seem to be doing just as good on it as anything else. At feeding about 8 cups of dog food per day, this is a significant find for us!

Anyone else use it or have any thoughts or experiences? (And yes, I know the BEST is homemade and/or raw, but I won't even make chicken for myself b/c I can't look at it...lol)


I read that as 8 cups of food per day PER DOG and was thinking WHAT KIND OF DOG are you feeding? I have BIG dogs but they don't eat that much lol.

dalpal
Jan. 8, 2009, 07:01 PM
I read that as 8 cups of food per day PER DOG and was thinking WHAT KIND OF DOG are you feeding? I have BIG dogs but they don't eat that much lol.


I think it's 8 cups total for three dogs.

jacksorbetter
Jan. 9, 2009, 09:07 AM
For those of you who feed Canidae kibble, which one do you feed? There are several different types with quite a price range...

dalpal
Jan. 9, 2009, 09:29 AM
For those of you who feed Canidae kibble, which one do you feed? There are several different types with quite a price range...

The lamb and rice is my favorite by far. I have never tried the grain free, they came out after I switched to raw.

Auventera Two
Jan. 9, 2009, 11:24 AM
I read that as 8 cups of food per day PER DOG and was thinking WHAT KIND OF DOG are you feeding? I have BIG dogs but they don't eat that much lol.

My Pit/Lab eats 6 cups a day, plus canned food, but you're right 8 is a lot. He's young and was emaciated when we got him so he's still trying to gain weight. The vet said he had around 20 to gain. He weighs about 90 now and has 10 to go, or so. You can still easily see and feel his ribs and spinous processes. His paws are as big as my hand and he's pretty tall.

IFG
Jan. 9, 2009, 12:14 PM
Can you feed Canidae to a puppy? Which kind do you use?

IFG
Jan. 9, 2009, 12:21 PM
Also, has anyone seen recent concerns on Canidae making dogs sick:

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/pets/canidae.html

Oakstable
Jan. 9, 2009, 12:32 PM
A friend showed me that link re dogs getting sick.

We've had no problems at all with Canidae. My husband cooks up frozen mixed vegetables and stirs them into the kibble with some ground turkey.

Dynamite makes its own kibble. ... top of the line. I know a dealer in the Temecula/San Diego area. If you want their kibble, the company could direct you to a dealer. That company is not going to be using any ingredients from China!!!!!!!

I use Dynamite products for my horses.

gloriginger
Jan. 9, 2009, 01:13 PM
The lamb and rice is my favorite by far. I have never tried the grain free, they came out after I switched to raw.

Unfortunately they changed their formulas last fall and the new product is not nearly as good as the old stuff. It now has a lot of meals- very different looking and you can tell because the waste is much more. Its unfortunate, I used to really like the food, and it was reasonably priced.

Many people that I know that used to feed Canidae have stopped. I think taste of the wild or Timberwolf are pretty similar to the old formula- they have the same look to them...

dalpal
Jan. 9, 2009, 05:24 PM
Unfortunately they changed their formulas last fall and the new product is not nearly as good as the old stuff. It now has a lot of meals- very different looking and you can tell because the waste is much more. Its unfortunate, I used to really like the food, and it was reasonably priced.

Many people that I know that used to feed Canidae have stopped. I think taste of the wild or Timberwolf are pretty similar to the old formula- they have the same look to them...

Yep, I know....they changed some of the ingredients...never bothered my guys.

lindasbostonbabies
Aug. 16, 2009, 04:47 PM
I raise Boston Terriers, and I have used the Costco brand of dog food for years. I used Professional before that, but had to drive an hour to get it, and one of my owners told me that the Cosco brand was made by Professional. I called the company, and they told me it was virtually the same formula. I have been very pleased with it for many years. My only complaint is that I wish the puppy food had a smaller kibble. I too would make my own if I had more hours in the day, but it's not possible at this time in my life.
One of my favorite features is that the adult formula has glucosamine, but everything is high quality. As a former vet tech, that matters to me. You can pay more, but it is a good, solid food. Bostons need high protein, and they use good quality, not fillers. If you go to the Professional pet food site, you can see more info.

Guin
Aug. 16, 2009, 06:25 PM
I wouldn't go near Beneful with a ten-foot pole. You'd do better tossing him raw corn on the cob and Fritos.

http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/showproduct.php?product=1873&cat=all

Zero meat content, low quality ingredients throughout, fat of unidentifiable origin, artificial colorant

Marshfield
Aug. 16, 2009, 09:52 PM
I'm a small animal veterinarian, and I'll fully admit that education on the nutrition side was minimal. Our Eukanuba rep visited the other week and was complaining that our prescription food sales are down. I just looked at him and explained that his company wasn't keeping up with the times. I don't recommend their foods for my allergy suspect dogs. I'm a fan of wellness. The prescription foods I have available for GI issues are poultry meal based, I don't push those either. Food isn't a profit area for us, i.e. sold for minimal mark-up. If anything, our lives would be easier if we got rid of the Hill's and Eukanuba, more storage space for other things. We're in the process of serious reconsideration of what, if anything we carry. Maybe there was a point that what our office would carry was some of the best available, but it's certainly not the case now.

My beloved corgi is nursing a litter of puppies right now. In the midst of all this, she became very ill with pancreatitis and a tick borne disease. She also has developed an apparent poultry sensitivity, but appears to be thriving on Wellness Simple Salmon and Rice after previously being a fussy eater.

mypaintwattie
Aug. 16, 2009, 11:28 PM
I switched my dogs from Natural Balance/ Nutro to Kirkland brand. Both dogs are full of energy, have shiny coats, and are well muscled. I have no complaints about it- vet says their last bloodwork was picture perfect, they are in great health. They gobble up the food, even the picky eater.

GotGait
Aug. 17, 2009, 09:37 AM
I wouldn't go near Beneful with a ten-foot pole. You'd do better tossing him raw corn on the cob and Fritos.

http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/showproduct.php?product=1873&cat=all

Zero meat content, low quality ingredients throughout, fat of unidentifiable origin, artificial colorant

But it has all those pretty pictures on the front!! :winkgrin:

I feed Taste of the Wild, Timberwolf Organics, and Orijen. I rotate every few months. I also feed Weruva canned.
Canidae was so "good", he ate it twice - if you know what I mean. *barf face*

Carolinadreamin'
Aug. 17, 2009, 10:36 AM
I am glad to see this thread as I was considering my dog food options this week.

We have a 3-yr old collie (picture Lassie, but white and black) who has been on Hill's Science, large breed formula as well as the one for sensitive skin. She has seasonal allergies (scratching) that she's seen the vet for. Thanks to my son, we now have a 7 month old medium size gorgeous black road-side dog (followed his car, he had to pick him up!). I'm not happy with the Hill's, but there's so much online about what to feed, it's confusing.

Does Costco have a food with glucousamine and/or one for sensitive skin?

Auventera Two
Aug. 17, 2009, 03:35 PM
But it has all those pretty pictures on the front!! :winkgrin:

I feed Taste of the Wild, Timberwolf Organics, and Orijen. I rotate every few months. I also feed Weruva canned.
Canidae was so "good", he ate it twice - if you know what I mean. *barf face*

I also added TOTW to my rotation and absolutely love it. I'm interested also in Timberwolf for the rotation, but its hard to get around here.

wendy
Aug. 17, 2009, 03:58 PM
I'm not happy with the Hill's, but there's so much online about what to feed, it's confusing.
no not really. Hill's is one of the poorest-quality yet over-priced foods on the market; people jokingly call it "Science Death".
Just go here to read about how to interpret ingredient lists: http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=labelinfo101

It's actually very simple. First scan the label for "NO NO NOT EVER" ingredients: corn gluten. Soy. Generic "fish meal". "meat and bone meal". "by-products". Put it back if it has any of this crap in it.

Then look at the first few ingredients, the ones listed before a fat source. These are the primary ingredients in the food. You want the first ingredient to be a named meat source. If the first ingredient is a word like "chicken" or "beef" then you want the second ingredient to be a named meat meal like "chicken meal". If the first ingredient is a named meat meal, that's great. If there are many different grain sources listed after the meats, such as "rice", "rice flour", "brewer's rice", "barley", "oatmeal", it's a trick on the manufacturer's part to attempt to disguise the fact it's mostly cheap grains in that bag. Put it back.


Then look at the %'s. The protein % and the kcal/cup are both good guides as to how much cheap filler is in the product, i.e. how much money you are wasting. The lower the protein % the more cheap grains, filler, etc. are in there; I personally wouldn't even look at something with less than 25% protein, preferably go higher. The fewer kcal/cup obviously the more cups per day you'll have to feed your dog and the more filler there is in the stuff that will come out as poop.

Blinkers On
Aug. 17, 2009, 04:05 PM
I have recently moved to the grain free stuff. Orijen for the solid. It is palatable. I tried it due to the fact that cooking for the old dog was tiresome and raw made him puke, Everything Else he barely tolerated. The grain free is great! No tooting, good poops, and he looks great. The pit can eat anything, but she gets the grain free as well. The poop size has actually decreased also. It's not cheap, but it is good. The ingredient list is darn fine a well!

TripleRipple
Aug. 17, 2009, 05:14 PM
I am glad to see some good reviews of the Costco brand here. I buy a large sack or two a month and donate it to our local County Humane Society, as it became a no kill a few years back. I use the Chicken brand, as I thought the average shelter dog might be more used to a chicken based food rather than the lamb, and the last thing they need there is tummy upsets.

I'd read some good reviews about the Costco brand before I chose it for donation several years ago, but hadn't checked recently. I've been feeding my own dogs homemade food based around the cattle we raise and slaughter for the last few years, so I haven't kept up on the commercial brands.

Question for anyone feeding the Costco brand - are your dog's stools good? I haven't asked them about this aspect, but I know that some of the less expensive foods cause problem stools, which is harder on the shelter staff re cleanup.

Trevelyan96
Aug. 17, 2009, 05:27 PM
I don't know about the Kirkland dog food brand, but we tried their cat food and all of my cats yakked it up constantly. 2 of mine have very sensitive digestive systems, one of them is really bad, the Kirkland brand made ALL of them do it.

My new pound puppy has proven to be a really picky eater with a 'delicate' digetstive system as well. Seems he came with just about every parasite infestation you can think of, including tapeworms and we're just now getting him straightened out. The only dry kibble he'll eat up nice is Blue Buffalo. $$, but I know its good stuff and hopefully now that we're getting the parasite problem resolved, he'll start getting the nutrition he needs.

kookicat
Aug. 19, 2009, 08:22 PM
Which of these would you pick to feed?

Pets-at-home own brand.
Fresh Chicken, Chicken (Min. 24%), Poultry Meat Meal, Rice, Maize, Barley, Maize Gluten Meal, Animal Fat, Sugar Beet Pulp, Poultry Digest, Brewers Yeast, Egg Powder, Flaxseed, Potato Protein, Sodium Chloride, Potassium Chloride, Methionine, Marigold Extract, Yucca Extract, L-Carnitine, Rosemary Extract. With Antioxidant EC Additives (Vitamin E and Vitamin C). Contains Tocopherol Rich Extracts Of Natural Origin. Vitamin E and Vitamin C as EC Permitted Antioxidant, No Added Colourants, Flavourings Or Preservatives. Total Chicken min. 37%.

Eukanuba Wild Nature
Salmon (Min. 14%), Rice (Min. 14%), Chicken Meal, Corn, Sorghum, Barley (Min. 10%), Dried Whole Egg, Animal Fat, Poultry Meal, Dried Beet Pulp, Chicken Digest, Fish Oil, Potassium Chloride, Brewer's Dried Yeast, Sodium Chloride, Sodium Hexametaphosphate, Dicalcium Phosphate, Calcium Carbonate, DL-Methionine

ProPlan
Chicken, Rice, Dehydrated Poultry Protein, Maize Gluten, Maize, Wheat, Animal Fat (Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Digest, Beet Pulp, Fish Oil, Dried Egg, Yeast, Calcium Phosphate, Potassium Chloride, Sodium Chloride, Minerals. Antioxidant: Tocopherol Rich Extracts Of Natural Origin. Vitamins: Vitamin A, Vitamin D3, Vitamin E, Vitamin C, B Group Vitamins.

Rhyadawn
Aug. 19, 2009, 08:57 PM
I feed my dogs Kirkland, and their stools are good. In the heat that we are having I've noticed them a little looser, but nothing that concerns me. They also aren't eating as much, even though they are inside in the AC. But this is what they do every summer.

They freefeed, always have access to fresh water, and maintain a good healthy weight. I'm happy

vacation1
Aug. 19, 2009, 09:22 PM
Ah, the endless dog food debate:lol: I was just struck by a couple things as I read through - one argument always put forth is that so and so knows a person who shows AKC and their dogs are huge winners and gorgeous and they (secretly) feed a super-low-cost food.

1) I used to be involved in showing dogs and virtually every gathering included heated arguments over which elite, nit-picky super-food was going to get the best coat, the best bone, etc. Maybe some of them were lying and really feeding cheap stuff from the grocery store, but most of them were dead serious. The secret cheapskates undoubtedly exist, but I don't think there are many.

2) Take any young animal - and most show dogs are young or in their prime - and exercise the living hell out of it, and they'll look great despite a crap diet. My brother played college hoops down south. At 19, he could run all day in the Carolina swelter during August practices. He could also drink a 2-liter of soda, eat a jumbo bag of chips, and then go run some more. Then come back and eat half a loaf of bread, 2lbs of lunchmeat, 1lb of cheese, another bag of chips, some ice cream, and possibly half a Chevy. He never gained an ounce, never looked less than an athlete. A very, very tall athlete:lol:

KateKat
Aug. 20, 2009, 12:47 AM
I feed Orijen to my dog. Its spendy, but again since its such high quality you don't have to feed as much. He only get 1.5 cups a day, and I actually think he's getting a little fat :)

Wellness brand is awesome, its what my cats eat. If the dog didn't eat so darned much I'd be getting it for him as well (canned food, that is)

Susan P
Aug. 20, 2009, 01:01 AM
I've always been a pet food snob but I think that Kirkland brands of pet foods are probably at the high end of the cheaper foods or maybe actually the lower end of the high quality foods. Either way I think it's a good value and not a bad pet food at all. I've used it for my barn cats and though it doesn't seem quite as palatable the ingredient list is decent, no corn, and I don't think it contains by-products either.

The label is your only way to judge. Beet pulp is a concern to me but I found the Trader Joe's Bench and Field Holistic cat food contains beet pulp too and at a much higher price I'm sure.





I hope it's OK I post about this here...

I have always been a bit of a dog food snob in feeding my 3 (Innova/Evo, Solid Gold, Nutro Ultra), but my husband I and were at Costco a couple weeks ago after buying a 35 lbs of dog food for $50 and noticed their 40 lbs bags were $21.00 and I remembered once reading that Kirkland's own brand was actually decent. So I checked out the ingredients and I was actually quite shocked. They looked better to me than the Nutra Ultra we just purchased. So we bought a bag and slowly switched them over. They love it and seem to be doing just as good on it as anything else. At feeding about 8 cups of dog food per day, this is a significant find for us!

Anyone else use it or have any thoughts or experiences? (And yes, I know the BEST is homemade and/or raw, but I won't even make chicken for myself b/c I can't look at it...lol)

GotGait
Aug. 20, 2009, 09:26 AM
1) I used to be involved in showing dogs

Me too. I stopped because they were even crazier than horse people.
The movie "Best in Show" is only slightly exaggerated.

My dog always had a better coat and teeth than the dogs that got fed grain and fillers. I never had to use the coat shine sprays or brush the heck out of him because he already had a shiny, gorgeous coat.

Fairview Horse Center
Aug. 20, 2009, 10:17 AM
I feed Blue Buffalo Wilderness. It is pricey, but I am actually feeding about half of what I was feeding of the lesser foods. My extremely picky (turns her nose up at cheesburgers) dog loves it, and looks great.

Susan P
Aug. 20, 2009, 10:45 AM
I've used that too and the label looks great but it's so expensive and never on sale. I bought the dog food for my son's puppy and he didn't handle it well at all. Not sure what they are feeding him now, they did change over gradually from the cheap stuff, Pedigree mostly corn meal. I used to feed wellness cat food but it came out the same as it went down the same route.

Lately I feed as much Verus cat food as I can afford buying the professional size bags, 38 lbs. I have to cut it with cheap stuff, Purina Cat Chow because I have so many cats to feed. The Verus is about $50 a bag and the smaller bags of Purina is about $10 a bag on sale so the same amount is around $25 compared to $50 for the Verus.

At this time I don't have any dogs.

Has anyone ever used Flint River Ranch pet food? http://flintriverranchproducts.com/dogfood.htm




I feed Blue Buffalo Wilderness. It is pricey, but I am actually feeding about half of what I was feeding of the lesser foods. My extremely picky (turns her nose up at cheesburgers) dog loves it, and looks great.

Fairview Horse Center
Aug. 20, 2009, 10:56 AM
I bought the dog food for my son's puppy and he didn't handle it well at all.

It has a high meat content. It is for mature dogs, not puppies. When I first fed it, I almost stopped because of gas problems and puking. When I cut he amount back, the problems stopped, and she still maintained her weight (even gained a bit). I am still easing it back while watching her weight, and now I love it.

Funny, but before, all I could get her to eat was that grocery store hamburger type product at about $1 per day & often she would still be leaving the food. She was pretty thin too. The Wilderness is expensive to buy, but lasts so long I am actually not paying any more.

wendy
Aug. 20, 2009, 10:56 AM
Ah, the endless dog food debate I was just struck by a couple things as I read through - one argument always put forth is that so and so knows a person who shows AKC and their dogs are huge winners and gorgeous and they (secretly) feed a super-low-cost food.

1) I used to be involved in showing dogs and virtually every gathering included heated arguments over which elite, nit-picky super-food was going to get the best coat, the best bone, etc. Maybe some of them were lying and really feeding cheap stuff from the grocery store, but most of them were dead serious. The secret cheapskates undoubtedly exist, but I don't think there are many.

2) Take any young animal - and most show dogs are young or in their prime - and exercise the living hell out of it, and they'll look great despite a crap diet.
yeah. Go to performance dog events (i.e. where the dogs actually have to do stuff, like agility) and ask the people who are running very healthy OLD dogs what they feed. Usual answer is "raw" or one of the high-end grain-free commercial foods.

Mozart
Aug. 20, 2009, 11:42 AM
I feed Orijen to my dog. Its spendy, but again since its such high quality you don't have to feed as much. He only get 1.5 cups a day, and I actually think he's getting a little fat :)

Wellness brand is awesome, its what my cats eat. If the dog didn't eat so darned much I'd be getting it for him as well (canned food, that is)

My Golden Retriever with allergies gets Orijen too. He was a "hard keeper" until we started him on this food but lately a friend gently chided me for letting him get a bit pudgy. He now gets a reduced amount.

Ironically, I also feed Costco Kirkland brand dog food to my chocolate lab who is ridiculously healthy (other than being deaf from old age). She has done well on it and of all of the non-premium dog foods the label reads out the best.

They also get a can of no name water packed sardines to share between the two of them every few days or so.

So I guess I am at both ends of the dog food spectrum...

Fairview Horse Center
Aug. 20, 2009, 11:59 AM
Many years ago, I fed Purina Hi Pro. I have never seen a food put a shine on a dog like that. I remember the ads saying "the High Pro Glo" and boy they were not kidding. Within just a couple of days people around the barn were noticing the shine, and commenting on it. This was back in the late 80's. I tried it again maybe 5 years ago, and definitely not the same, so I guess the formula was changed.

My Puppy was raised on Purina Pro plan, and did great on it, but then as an adult, she started getting super picky and quit eating most foods. The Blue Buffalo foods, and also Fromm Pork and Applesauce she cleans up.

authentic pony
Aug. 20, 2009, 12:46 PM
Perfect timing for this conversation, thanks OP!

Is there such a thing as a food being TOO high/rich in quality?

I adopted a 5 year old standard poodle about 6 weeks ago. She is probably 10lbs underweight - she is very ribby, her hip bones jut out, you can feel her whole spine and her coat is dull and very coarse. They fed all their dogs Kirkland brand and raved about it. She was low man on the totem pole and I don't think ate much, but I immediately started the switch over to Fromm. Boy that didn't sit so well with her! So I switched to Oven Baked, which she gobbled up, and that was even worse when it came out. I finally landed on California Naturals (what my parent's SPOO gets) and she was great for about 3-4 weeks...but the last week has been diahrrea city. :( I haven't changed anything else about her diet. Some days its just a loose stool and others her poop is practically pouring out of her. She is still drinking lots and has lots of energy, so I don't think its a bug.

I emailed the people I got her from to see if this was ever an issue before. I am torn between getting a membership and just sticking her back on Kirkland, or trying something else (I've heard great things about Blue Buffalo too) or trying something grain-free like TOTW.

I see a lot of people on here who really like the Kirkland and it's SO much more affordable, but I wanted to keep her on something higher-quality to try and get that weight up. Now I'm wondering if it's just too rich for her?

vacation1
Aug. 20, 2009, 08:34 PM
Me too. I stopped because they were even crazier than horse people.

:lol: Horribly true. Horse people may be nuts but dog people are increasingly operating on some theoretical plane with only the most tenuous connection to reality. This includes the pet folk just as much as the show people, sadly.

Bluey
Aug. 20, 2009, 08:48 PM
yeah. Go to performance dog events (i.e. where the dogs actually have to do stuff, like agility) and ask the people who are running very healthy OLD dogs what they feed. Usual answer is "raw" or one of the high-end grain-free commercial foods.

Our dog club people are agility and obedience, so a performance group and no one feeds raw, it is not the best if you are on the road much and spend all free time training.
Kibble is the most practical way of feeding when you travel much.

Most rotate feeds regularly, so the dogs taste and their systems can take changes easily.

And no, we are not crazier than horse people, just crazy in a little bit different ways.:winkgrin:

kookicat
Aug. 21, 2009, 01:54 PM
Perfect timing for this conversation, thanks OP!

Is there such a thing as a food being TOO high/rich in quality?

I adopted a 5 year old standard poodle about 6 weeks ago. She is probably 10lbs underweight - she is very ribby, her hip bones jut out, you can feel her whole spine and her coat is dull and very coarse. They fed all their dogs Kirkland brand and raved about it. She was low man on the totem pole and I don't think ate much, but I immediately started the switch over to Fromm. Boy that didn't sit so well with her! So I switched to Oven Baked, which she gobbled up, and that was even worse when it came out. I finally landed on California Naturals (what my parent's SPOO gets) and she was great for about 3-4 weeks...but the last week has been diahrrea city. :( I haven't changed anything else about her diet. Some days its just a loose stool and others her poop is practically pouring out of her. She is still drinking lots and has lots of energy, so I don't think its a bug.

I emailed the people I got her from to see if this was ever an issue before. I am torn between getting a membership and just sticking her back on Kirkland, or trying something else (I've heard great things about Blue Buffalo too) or trying something grain-free like TOTW.

I see a lot of people on here who really like the Kirkland and it's SO much more affordable, but I wanted to keep her on something higher-quality to try and get that weight up. Now I'm wondering if it's just too rich for her?

I'm sure that you've thought of this, but does she need worming?

IFG
Aug. 21, 2009, 04:26 PM
Perfect timing for this conversation, thanks OP!

Is there such a thing as a food being TOO high/rich in quality?

I adopted a 5 year old standard poodle about 6 weeks ago. She is probably 10lbs underweight - she is very ribby, her hip bones jut out, you can feel her whole spine and her coat is dull and very coarse. They fed all their dogs Kirkland brand and raved about it. She was low man on the totem pole and I don't think ate much, but I immediately started the switch over to Fromm. Boy that didn't sit so well with her! So I switched to Oven Baked, which she gobbled up, and that was even worse when it came out. I finally landed on California Naturals (what my parent's SPOO gets) and she was great for about 3-4 weeks...but the last week has been diahrrea city. :( I haven't changed anything else about her diet. Some days its just a loose stool and others her poop is practically pouring out of her. She is still drinking lots and has lots of energy, so I don't think its a bug.

I emailed the people I got her from to see if this was ever an issue before. I am torn between getting a membership and just sticking her back on Kirkland, or trying something else (I've heard great things about Blue Buffalo too) or trying something grain-free like TOTW.

I see a lot of people on here who really like the Kirkland and it's SO much more affordable, but I wanted to keep her on something higher-quality to try and get that weight up. Now I'm wondering if it's just too rich for her?

Congratulations on your new Spoo!

We had a rescue Spoo who did great on Wellness, until he got Calcium Oxalate urinary stones. Then he had to have Science Diet U/D. His tummy was always OK. He got cancer that progressed quickly, and we euthanized him at the end of September. We didn't make it long without a Spoo, so we got a puppy at the end of November. You can see his pic in my profile. He came to us on Proplan, but his stool were always loose. He didn't do great on Solid Gold. Did OK on Innova, but does really well on Wellness. Because Wellness has lots of Oxalate, I am a little nervous about it, so I just got Taste of the Wild to try.

When Kobe eats certain food, even chicken and ride, the outcome (so to speak) is very loose. With others, he is fine. Wormed regularly, so that is not the problem.

Have fun with your Spoo!