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Rebelpaintrider
Jan. 3, 2009, 11:32 PM
I called about a barn today, Nice in-door ring, (no out-door) and nice barn. I got a call back requarding boarding prices and damn near had a heart attack! $1,000 a month! I don't know if anyone else is in shock about boarding rates anymore... I remember when you could get a nice place for 350-400 with a ring and full board. I'm aware hay prices and all have gone up, but really what can you really do for a horse that you charge $1,000 a month?

whoever can afford that for a horse I want their job!

*End rant*

Anyone else feel this way?

ChampionMercedes
Jan. 4, 2009, 12:04 AM
I called about a barn today, Nice in-door ring, (no out-door) and nice barn. I got a call back requarding boarding prices and damn near had a heart attack! $1,000 a month! I don't know if anyone else is in shock about boarding rates anymore... I remember when you could get a nice place for 350-400 with a ring and full board. I'm aware hay prices and all have gone up, but really what can you really do for a horse that you charge $1,000 a month?

whoever can afford that for a horse I want their job!

*End rant*

Anyone else feel this way?


Did this include training? Or tacking up, etc. That seems insanely high!

Polydor
Jan. 4, 2009, 12:05 AM
Nothing new about that price if you want a top ranked stable in my home town. Sadly enough .... last place i worked at was $1000 plus another 500 or so for training which you had to have. So $1500 plus it was a garantee that you would be showing on the jumping circuit in alberta so plus all of those fees.

No clue how regular people make it work though.

P.

kellyb
Jan. 4, 2009, 12:07 AM
I think $1k is pretty steep unless you're in NYC or another metro area...

The nicest barn around here to board at is $600. Second nicest (with nice indoor) is $550. Decent barns for $450, and scary barns for $350. No full board cheaper than that.

Rebelpaintrider
Jan. 4, 2009, 12:53 AM
She said that they have "packages available" But off the bat that Boarding was $1,000. Yes, this is Chester Co. but I know big show barns aren't that high - maybe one or two but they are HUGE HUGE Barns.

Pretty soon it's going to be cheaper and easier to just buy your own farm and keep your horses at home (But I think every horse person wants their horses in their backyard :) )

Lauren!
Jan. 4, 2009, 01:20 AM
There are plenty of nice barns in several different areas of NJ that charge $1000 (or more) a month. No, you don't HAVE to pay that much... I also know of nice farms with excellent care for less than half that, usually smaller places, and further from urban areas, but not always by much.

I think that if you actually need to MAKE money on board, you almost have to charge that much in many places (rather than breaking even, or not making profit because you just like haing the horses around, you board for farmland assessment, you make your money off training or extra services, etc.)

Land is very expensive here, even in my rural corner of the state. Even dry stalls are expensive (last place a friend of mine rented stalls they were $200 per stall per month). Hay is expensive... at least $4/bale. Shavings are expensive... at least $5/bag. Grain is anywhere from $10-18/50#. Figure 3/4 bale of hay per horse per day, 1/2 bag of shavings a day, and a few pounds of grain per day... it adds up fast! At least $200/month in consumables, probably closer to $300 in many cases. Add in cost of stall, mortgage, and/or overhead. Add in labor (an hour per horse per day at $8/hr is $240). I can see how barns end up charging a lot for board! The places that I know of that charge less generally aren't in it for the money, and they're backyard/family places... they built a barn on their own property, so most of the overhead is just an offshoot of their living expenses (and they have non-horse jobs that support the house/family for the most part). Some grow their own hay as well. The board may pay for the arn owner's horses upkeep, but I don't know anyone who's really making a profit this way.

Guyot
Jan. 4, 2009, 07:46 AM
Lauren, where did you hear that farms can be farm assessed off boarding in NJ??? I have been trying to keep tabs on that going through, by keeping contact with the land use guys... last I heard boarding was not considered farm assessable. Please let me know where you heard that!! It would be so cool to not have to buy and sell in this economy! If I don't make a acceptable profit selling horses next year will loose our farm assessment and our taxes will go through the roof! :mad:

Regular board in Sussex Co for nice barn with indoor is $600.00 although there is one barn that has board at $1000.00 but that includes grooming/tack up/etc. (I think!) South of me in Gladstone area $600.00 a month gets you an nice small backyard barn, turnout, and maybe an outdoor ring if your lucky!!

copper1
Jan. 4, 2009, 07:52 AM
That does sound high even for Chester county but I want to give you a barn owner's view.
The price of hay, grain and bedding has skyrocketed and in some cases nearly impossible to get. Even though fuel prices have come down, the wood pellet industry is taking all the free or cheap shavings and sawdust and ethanol production is taking the grain.
If this barn has full time help and 24/7 staffing, you will pay more. Maintaining pastures and a farm is amazingly expensive-ever check out the price of a bag of fertilizer? Electric is going up and is suppossed to skyrocket. Someone needs to pay the water bill as well and that isn't coming down. Taxes on properties can be enormous and you can bet Chester isn't a bargin.
I am sure the BO in this case as figured out their per horse costs and decided to charge accordingly with the thought if someone can't afford it, they can go elsewhere. More expensive than the norm? yes, sign of the times, also a yes.

dalpal
Jan. 4, 2009, 08:01 AM
I can think of at least one here in Raleigh who's base board is close to 800.00 per month. And you have to add extra for blanketing, extra hay, small group/individual turnout, trailer parking, etc.

It's a nice farm, but the only thing super nice about it, is the covered arena....the turnout sucks and they feed crap. I think it's HIGHLY overrated... I will say that last I had heard, they had 20 (about 40 stalls total) empty stalls due to the owners board hike in this terrible economy. Then the owner went up AGAIN on the ones who stayed to make up for the 20 empty stalls. :no:

We have better turnout, an indoor arena, nice outdoor arena, and a very laid back atmosphere at the barn I'm at....they feed a better quality feed and aren't as stingy about hay....for 625.00 per month. A much better deal than barn A. :yes:

idtogo
Jan. 4, 2009, 08:05 AM
on the north shore of massachusetts , even backyard barns are around 500-600 and if you want an indoor it is 800-1200 (and many require lessons so add on another 250-300/month...). There are not many barns in the 400 range any more around here so we ended up buying a small horse property and honestly the mortgage is less than board on our 2 horses would be (and if course now we get to do everything our way :D )

TikiSoo
Jan. 4, 2009, 08:14 AM
I can remember a friend in Long Island telling me her board was $1000/month way back 10 years ago when MY upstate NY board was $150/month!

I used to keep my horses on my own property back when I was in my 20's, and have zero desire to do that now in my 40's. Sure, it's cheaper and great for bonding with your horse. BUT, you can't go on vacation easily, YOU must do all the daily work and worse the constant upkeep & repair.

I ride much more often than my BO.

Luckily I pay $250/m, but he's threatening to raise board AGAIN which may send me off, there's plenty of places cheaper....but I like the care they give.

Jsalem
Jan. 4, 2009, 08:19 AM
No one ever seems to factor in the price of RENT (or the mortgage if owned) when figuring board prices. My rent is $7500 per month. I have 22 stalls- you do the math. Then add the labor to staff 365 days per year and insurance, utilities, feed, hay, shavings, repairs, etc, etc, etc. That's how board gets to be upwards of $1000 per month.

That's also why I get so peeved when I read the rants on this board re: BO's and BM's. I read folks urging boarders to move with no notice. Folks want board to be a cheap as possible. BO's cannot afford empty stalls, so every time some jerk boarder leaves under cover of darkness with no notice, it puts a huge dent in the monthly budget.

That's why I have a training barn, not a boarding barn. That's why I require a month's deposit to be paid by my clients- no more leaving without 30 days notice. That's why I vet new clients as thoroughly as they vet me.

OP, ask for a list of amenities and services. You might be pleasantly surprised at what you get for your money. Don't just assume it's a rip-off.

Riva
Jan. 4, 2009, 08:21 AM
Actually, in your area, I believe many (if not most) professional barns are $800 - $1000 base board and go up as you get closer to Malvern starting in Ludwig's Corner / Glenmoore. And of course, with an indoor, that can be even higher. Yes, there are some nice facilities that are cheaper, but they are generally full already.

When I got my second horse, I had to move out of the barn I was at w/ an indoor for a private backyard barn in order to afford board for both of them. Now I have my own place and it is the only way I could afford the 4 horses I now have.

eponina
Jan. 4, 2009, 08:21 AM
Wow! I need to start boarding horses. We have empty stalls and an indoor ring 15 minutes outside of Washington DC. I had no idea I might be able to charge that much for full care board (the last time I paid board, full care at a barn with an indoor ring was about $325 per month).

lilypondlane
Jan. 4, 2009, 08:22 AM
When my daughter lived in Fairfield County CT about 5 years ago, we had to board her horse about 30 miles away over back roads, so about an hour each way -- board was over $1K at most of the places we talked to in Fairfield County. And even where she ended up, the board was $550 with no indoor, but a nice outdoor and miles and miles of trails. Not fancy at all, but great care. I think $600-800 is the going rate around the DC area for a place with an indoor and nice facilities, $400-500 for a smaller "backyard" barn with an outdoor ring, probably more in Fairfax and Montgomery Counties.

Guyot, don't know about other jurisdictions, but here in Prince William County VA, boarding horses does not qualify for "land use"; however, breeding horses does.

lilypondlane
Jan. 4, 2009, 08:24 AM
Riva, hmmmn, yes, having your own place = the onset of equine collectoritis. :D

loshad
Jan. 4, 2009, 08:29 AM
Wow! I need to start boarding horses. We have empty stalls and an indoor ring 15 minutes outside of Washington DC. I had no idea I might be able to charge that much for full care board (the last time I paid board, full care at a barn with an indoor ring was about $325 per month).

If you have an indoor, a decent facility, offer good care, and are fifteen minutes (!) outside of DC then yes, you could probably get pretty close to that amount.

EASY RIDER STABLE
Jan. 4, 2009, 08:38 AM
...And I do keep in touch with my other friends who have Boarding Stables. And there is only one place in the Elverson / Morgantown area that I know of that can be that expensive and they really don't like other people at their place so I've known for a fact that on several occaisions if they felt that they weren't going to make big money on you or didn't need your horse in their barn that instead of just telling you "no" they'd give a crazy price knowing that you'd just leave and never be heard of again. Most stables in Chester County are not that expensive and are more than likely to work with you right now cause even the big, big show stables are empty. I've never seen so many boarding ads in the local rags even from the really big ones. So keep searching and you'll find what you need , what'll work for you and your horse.

shawneeAcres
Jan. 4, 2009, 08:45 AM
I run a barn, we board, I teach and market horses. It is a small barn (8 stalls) and we offer three kinds of board. Our most expensive (marketing board) is $450 which is full board, riding horse 2 - 3 times weekly and marketing services. Ordinary full stall board is $315. We are in eastern NC, east of Raleigh. In Raleigh we would easily be getting double that. I do not "make" money boarding, my lessons and sales have to do that. I am lucky to break even. I would KILL to have an indoor, but if I were to do that the price up board would have to go up dramatically. People who do not run a boarding operation have no idea of the costs. They look at price of hay/grain and that is it. Begin looking deeper, bedding, price of fertilizer for those fields you want your horse turned out on. Seeding for winter/spring grazing, the bermuda grass that we plugged on the entire property a couple years ago. The diesel fuel to run the tractor so that we can fertilize, seed, spread manure, drag the ring a few times per week. The cost of fencing, the cost of the jumps in the ring that we are constantly painting, upgrading, repairing. THe new windows we just put up in the barn. The sand that we keep imporving the arena with. The new tack room we put up in 2008. The TAXES on the property (folks THIS is one of the main reasons that barns in less rural areas are so expensive!), insurance, cost of gas to go to the feed store everyweek and get feed. THe list is nearly ENDLESS. I just think people who rant about baording costs just haven't got a clue and I drn sure am not making ANYTHING for my labor!

7HL
Jan. 4, 2009, 08:59 AM
I called about a barn today, Nice in-door ring, (no out-door) and nice barn. I got a call back requarding boarding prices and damn near had a heart attack! $1,000 a month! I don't know if anyone else is in shock about boarding rates anymore... I remember when you could get a nice place for 350-400 with a ring and full board. I'm aware hay prices and all have gone up, but really what can you really do for a horse that you charge $1,000 a month?

whoever can afford that for a horse I want their job!

*End rant*

Anyone else feel this way?


Sounds excessive...

Since I am not too far from you (Lancaster area) I am curious what they are offering. We are presently boarding 3 - full board for less then you say you were quoted for 1. No indoor, but... everything else you could ask for.

You definitely need to shop around.

jn4jenny
Jan. 4, 2009, 09:04 AM
they really don't like other people at their place so I've known for a fact that on several occaisions if they felt that they weren't going to make big money on you or didn't need your horse in their barn that instead of just telling you "no" they'd give a crazy price knowing that you'd just leave and never be heard of again.

I've heard of this sort of thing in my area too.

Jumphigh83
Jan. 4, 2009, 09:14 AM
Wow! I need to start boarding horses. We have empty stalls and an indoor ring 15 minutes outside of Washington DC. I had no idea I might be able to charge that much for full care board (the last time I paid board, full care at a barn with an indoor ring was about $325 per month).

Do you really think that we are MAKING money boarding YOUR horse????Hahahahahahahhaha...Boarding is the loss leader to training lessons showing etc...Hey buy the farm, build the barn, pay the taxes, buy the equipment, hire the help (and then herd those cats), pay the electric, put up the fences, pay for the repairs and maintenance, buy the truck and trailer, tractor, haying equipment, manure spreader (or manure removal service), dont forget buckets hoses snaps mats etc etc, pay the insurance, plow the driveways, mow the lawns, replace the light bulbs and halogen lights in the indoors, stay up with YOUR horse all night for that colic, mediate between princess boarders (or princes), explain for the hundredmillionth time that you are NOT ripping them off, wait for the vet blacksmith whomever, give up your "normal life" no more weekend get aways, 24/7 responsibility for a living being... Yeah...I guess it IS much cheaper to do your own thing and stop paying those greedy barn owners all that money!

KellyS
Jan. 4, 2009, 09:21 AM
My husband and I were just saying yesterday that we don't know how boarding barns are making it right now. We keep our horses at our farm and our costs for horse keeping have skyrocketed this year.

The barns have much higher costs, but clients are not making enough money to keep with the increased boarding rates--it's not a good situation. As someone else mentioned, I always looked at boarding as *not* the way to make money in the horse business--it's the lessons, training, etc, that provide the profit.

We've been asked a few times about boarding at our farm and it's not financially feasible. The costs of commercial insurance, supplies (feed, hay, shavings, etc), and our own labor just don't make it worth it. Plus, I've come to realize the many boarders expect the barn to be perfect in so many ways, with no understanding of how difficult it is to run a facility. They want an indoor and outdoor with perfect footing, perfect pastures for turnout, blankets changed every time the weather changes 10*, etc, and then can't understand why board is not just a couple hundred dollars a month.

I'm not saying everyone, including the OP, is like this. But I don't envy anyone trying to make a living out of boarding. Everyone should have to keep a horse on their own for a month to see just how much time and money goes into it.

coloredhorse
Jan. 4, 2009, 09:29 AM
Wow! I need to start boarding horses. We have empty stalls and an indoor ring 15 minutes outside of Washington DC. I had no idea I might be able to charge that much for full care board (the last time I paid board, full care at a barn with an indoor ring was about $325 per month).

Eponina, I used to run a boarding stable in your area. You will have to charge $750-$1000 (depending on which county houses your property) to make ends meet: rent/mortgage; commercial liability/CCC insurance; salaries for workers; other labor-related costs (ss, disability, etc.); maintenance; equipment; and then the obvious monthly material costs (grain, hay, bedding). And that's without factoring in a salary for you or any sort of profit margin.

Folks, I hear you on costs; it sucks out there for everybody. But it's completely unfair to rag on business owners for pricing according to real business needs. Your BO fails to uphold his/her boarding agreement? That's fair game. Uses your horse without asking? Definitely deserves a boot up the butt. Charges a fee that meets their business' needs? That's their business. If you can't afford it, you look elsewhere. If you just don't want to pay it, you look elsewhere. And yes, it powerful sucks, but in this economy, some horse owners are going to have to accept that they cannot currently afford to continue being horse owners.

IME, barns that can offer boarding at a lower rate are those where the boarding operation is subsidized by a strong lesson or training program. (And that comes with other inconveniences and issues.) Boarding on its own does not make money. At the place I ran, it was a situation where I wanted to rent this particular property for my horses but it was really too big for my needs. So I opted to offer very reasonable boarding rates at cost. I did not get a salary. There were a few times when I not only did not get a salary, but I also paid board on my personal horses to keep the farm in the black. That was my choice, and it's not something that I did over a long period (just 3 years), nor could I have done so. The work is simply too hard to maintain with no tangible reward. If I ended a month with $20 to put in my own pocket, I did a little jig of joy. I have another business at which I actually make my living; people relying on their farm as their sole source of income don't have the option of running essentially a subsidized boarding facility.

Now, I live in SC and have just two horses on a very small farmlet and am able to keep those two for less than I would pay for one at a mid-priced basic boarding facility in this area. And that is only by virtue of a huge extended family here and nice neighbors that can be exploited for bartering and discounts on critical work and supplies. Without that network, I can't say that keeping the girls at home would be appreciably cheaper than boarding.

eponina
Jan. 4, 2009, 09:41 AM
My post was tongue in cheek! I have no interest in running a boarding stable. But hypothetically, since our farm expenses are already supported by income outside of the horse world, and we're already accounted for mortgage, feed, hay, labor, etc for our own horses, isn't there some money to be made by taking on a few boarders? In our case, if we took on any more than say, 3 horses, I'd assume we'd have to hire additional help, but wouldn't there be some profit in taking on up to that amount?

Having put that out there for thought, I also have to say I don't know how you could start up/and our buy an established boarding stable in our area and make any money. There are two established barns for sale nearby - one is $2.9m and the other is $3.6m. Both have lesson programs, but a back of the envelope calculation tells me the monthly mortgage on these (not included taxes and insurance) would likely be between $16,000 and $20,000 per month. I have no idea how much labor, maintenance, feed, etc. would add to the bottom line. How in the world could you ever make a living if that were the case?

Sparky Boy
Jan. 4, 2009, 09:51 AM
Wow! I need to start boarding horses. We have empty stalls and an indoor ring 15 minutes outside of Washington DC. I had no idea I might be able to charge that much for full care board (the last time I paid board, full care at a barn with an indoor ring was about $325 per month).

You could probably get around $500-550. a month with your location.

minnie
Jan. 4, 2009, 09:51 AM
Just consider the threads about what people should expect to be paid for "farmsitting" on a private farm for vacations or whatever, if you figure $10./day/horse for labor (and that's less than what people were saying they should be paid!) and then add on the cost of hay/grain/bedding/mortgage/insurance/maintenance and upkeep/gas/fertilizer/taxes, etc., even a backyard barn with no indoor or even an outdoor arena would need to charge at least $550./mo and when you consider the cost of adding indoor, footing, jumps, etc, $800 - 1000. won't make you rich.

JanWeber
Jan. 4, 2009, 10:54 AM
Guyot - call your local tax assessor. It is the township that makes or breaks the farm assessment code. I live in Delaware Township - to gain farmland assessment, I need to have five acres of fenced pasture actively in use by boarded horses. They will count the square footage of the barn and arena as well. Check with your township to better determine what will let you qualify. Our tax assessor came out and walked the property with me and we agreed that when all was said and done, the additions to make my property fall under farmland assessment would not yield enough of a tax benefit to be worthwhile.

And for those who think there's money to be made in boarding, double-check your numbers. I've done it for friends who were in a bind, but there is really no money to be made there if the horses are all cared for as if they were your own...

SaddleFitterVA
Jan. 4, 2009, 11:01 AM
My post was tongue in cheek! I have no interest in running a boarding stable. But hypothetically, since our farm expenses are already supported by income outside of the horse world, and we're already accounted for mortgage, feed, hay, labor, etc for our own horses, isn't there some money to be made by taking on a few boarders? In our case, if we took on any more than say, 3 horses, I'd assume we'd have to hire additional help, but wouldn't there be some profit in taking on up to that amount?

Having put that out there for thought, I also have to say I don't know how you could start up/and our buy an established boarding stable in our area and make any money. There are two established barns for sale nearby - one is $2.9m and the other is $3.6m. Both have lesson programs, but a back of the envelope calculation tells me the monthly mortgage on these (not included taxes and insurance) would likely be between $16,000 and $20,000 per month. I have no idea how much labor, maintenance, feed, etc. would add to the bottom line. How in the world could you ever make a living if that were the case?

So, you think you'd be willing to subsidize your clients hobby for a bit of cash flow? Because you already pay for your mortgage out of other income, that cost should not be passed onto a boarder?

That portion of the mortgage cost that can be attributed to the facility should be included in board IMO. And, if you feel generous, and own it free and clear, then by all means, board for costs only. The waiting list will be long!

My board is currently priced under costs, but for a few months, I'm riding it out. My costs also skyrocketed this year and I have not increased rates in well over a year.

I sold a horse last year and that put $3500 into the farm account, which mostly paints the fences and helped with a bit of hay. I think my schedule C will STILL be showing a loss though.

Lauren!
Jan. 4, 2009, 12:03 PM
Lauren, where did you hear that farms can be farm assessed off boarding in NJ??? I have been trying to keep tabs on that going through, by keeping contact with the land use guys... last I heard boarding was not considered farm assessable. Please let me know where you heard that!! It would be so cool to not have to buy and sell in this economy! If I don't make a acceptable profit selling horses next year will loose our farm assessment and our taxes will go through the roof! :mad:


I can't give you reliable information... We don't board any horses, but I HAVE heard of boarding being used for farmland assessment, at least a few years back. On the other hand, I've been told to avoid anything horse related as your farmland assessment, because the state doesn't like it. No clue what the truth is (because we don't have any professional horse activities at all), or what the guidelines are... I guess you'd have to contact someone at the state? Or maybe someone at the Horse Council would know?

If you're worried about losing your farmland assessment in the crappy horse selling market, how about throwing a cow or other livestock out in the pastures, then selling them to market? I've known several farms that sold a small amount of beef (or a beef cow or two) per year in order to boost their farm related income. Don't know the legalities of that but worth looking into.

Edited to add... just saw JanWeber's post... much better advice than mine! LOL

onthebit
Jan. 4, 2009, 12:25 PM
When people look at board rates they tend to only factor in the costs of hay, feed and shavings. They forget about all of the zillion other costs such as:

- the cost of the land
- the cost to build and then maintain the barn
- the cost to build and maintain all of the fencing
- the cost to build and maintain arenas
- the cost to purchase and maintain equipment
- the cost of running water and electricity lines all over the farm
- the monthly utility bills
- the labor costs
- insurance costs
- taxes
- supplies (meds, wrapping supplies, grooming supplies, etc.)
- accounting and bookkeeping
- pasture maintenance (fertilize, lime, re-seed, etc.
- etc. etc. etc.

I don't know that area and $1000 may be outrageous, but what does an acre of unimproved land cost in that area? I would be curious to know that number. Stall board at most of the nice facilities in my area with an indoor and an outdoor and good care is typically $650-$850/month plus training. When I see people posting about paying $200-$300/month for stall board I just don't see how those barns survive.

galwaybay
Jan. 4, 2009, 12:34 PM
I think some of you bm/bo might need to look into getting another accountant - all this about having to pay rent/mortgage, equipment, labor, insurance, health care (if you are self employed) etc etc - a lot of those expenses are business expenses and therefore can be deducted come tax time... so while I can certainly appreciate the expenses... many of the posters when they're posting about expenses don't seem to put that into the equation. When I hear these gripes about boarders complaining about prices and what not - why do you go into the business? and who do you think keeps you in business?
I can also appreciate the fact that many people wisely purchased property in which to have a barn at a time when you could get land/property for a good deal... for the past 5-6 years real estate prices have gone through the roof... what took 6 years to achieve any equity took 6 months.. my own townhouse double it's worth in just over a year... It took my previous home about 10 years... So anyone who bought property say within the last 5-10 years - their overhead is going to be much much higher.

My bo/trainer makes around $70-100K per year; she has a small training barn which she purchased actually 30 years ago...so quite frankly she is doing better than I am O.K.

And just as an FYI barns in the Mont. MD area can range drastically depending on the "program" and other factors. My barn is around $500 w/o an indoor; another similar barn in Potomac board is $425 (no indoor) - both those places are relatively inexpensive because they OWN vs Rent property... there are some fabulous barns around here - seems the places which are owned are less than those that are rented... most of the barns I know of in the immediate area are not the full service type - where horses are groomed daily, tacked up for you etc...

Eponina - where are you 15 minutes outside of DC - would love know if you ever decide to take in boarders...

Sansena
Jan. 4, 2009, 12:44 PM
Figure $5/bag for 3.2 cu ft shavings, 6 bags min to bed a stall, some require a bag + a day to keep that level.

Figure $5/ bale of hay consisting of 11 flakes, feed 3 flakes/ meal/ day, given it's consistent weight & quality.

Figure $20/ 50lb bag high quality feed. 4lbs a & pm = $20 every 8 days (forgive bad math)

Add to that property taxes, labor f. 1 ee @ $30k/ yr, insurance, facility maintenance (like pasture seed at $70 per 40lb bag, not to mention equipment to sew, fertilize, aerate fields, etc.)

Ring footing aprox $10k every 10 yrs for avg 100 x 180 arena.

Here in SWCT near NYline, $1k/mo isn't unheard of at all...

Bayou Roux
Jan. 4, 2009, 01:11 PM
When I see an ad for a $65,000 Cadillac on tv, I shrug and say "out of my price range..." If that's what Cadillac needs to charge to operate, fine, but I'm not buying. And I can deal with that. Why is boarding any different?

Why the need to rant? It costs what it costs. Service providers charge what they charge. Buy the service or don't.

It's not like someone reached into your pocket and stole $1,000. If it's out of your range, look elsewhere.

MandyVA
Jan. 4, 2009, 01:14 PM
Eponina, are you in MD? I think it makes a huge difference whether you are "15 minutes outside DC" as in a 15 minute ride off of the beltway versus being truly 15 minutes from downtown. I board in McLean and I don't know of any barns that close to DC with an indoor on our side of the river, not even close. They would certainly be in high demand and could easily get $1500 for board. The only barn in Great Falls with a decent indoor (Stonebridge I think it's called?) starts at $1300 and they have a waiting list. And that is 30 minutes from downtown on a good day.

GollyGee
Jan. 4, 2009, 01:15 PM
I board only track lay-ups and get a per diem.

My out of pocket everyday expenses for Grain+ supplements, hay (alfalfa) straw, muckers wages, electric for barn,insurance, pro rated taxes (farm facilities only),and insurance are $14.00 per horse!!!
And yes I do get business tax advantages, but you have to spend the money to make the money and some how there is never ever enough, farrier has to paid, vets have to be paid, feed store and hay/straw man. Weekly wages. While we wait for board bills to come in sometimes 30-45 days after mailing out. OH and I don't get a wage HaHa........
I did not include upkeep on truck trailer tractor gator or gas for mowing.
Building upkeep, things like light bulbs, the electrican and plumber, carpenter for repairs, roofs, windows, my word just stuff like hoses, screw eyes and double ended snaps.Do you know what pich forks and brooms cost!!
I am rich when I get my $75.00 every other month manure check from Mushroom people!!!
My bread n butter is selling horses and the profit margine there has its ups n downs to.

Possibly the best way to board if you don't have to have an indoor is rent a barn w/ managble # of stalls, ring n turn out and co op w/ others. Split all the operating expenses and either do the work amongst you. Figure your fixed cost of rent hay bedding feed. Divide and pay up, suppliments on their own. If you can all get along and work the AM PM between you its a good solution. you can then always ship out pay fee for indoor use!! (PS) get your own trunks w/ locks!!:)

pines4equines
Jan. 4, 2009, 01:30 PM
Previous poster said: "Pretty soon it's going to be cheaper and easier to just buy your own farm and keep your horses at home..."

Yeah, and bye, bye riding!?! Ask most self care people if they ride as much as their boarder counterparts...I'm always mucking rather than riding. The riding always takes back seat to the chores, especially in the winter.

pines4equines
Jan. 4, 2009, 01:33 PM
Another previous poster said: "I think some of you bm/bo might need to look into getting another accountant - all this about having to pay rent/mortgage, equipment, labor, insurance, health care (if you are self employed) etc etc - a lot of those expenses are business expenses and therefore can be deducted come tax time..."

Yes, but you need to make the money to get these deductions or even to pay for the deductions to then get the deductions.

Face it, just suck it up and pay your board bill or look elsewhere. We used to board and we never made any money...hence we don't board anymore.

Rebelpaintrider
Jan. 4, 2009, 01:57 PM
Previous poster said: "Pretty soon it's going to be cheaper and easier to just buy your own farm and keep your horses at home..."

Yeah, and bye, bye riding!?! Ask most self care people if they ride as much as their boarder counterparts...I'm always mucking rather than riding. The riding always takes back seat to the chores, especially in the winter.

I do self-care now, I do everything. If the ring was unusable we would hook up the trailer and go to an indoor or such, Was only this year I haven't done much winter riding due to health reasons. I normally ride 6 days a week. Between 2 horses

I've also managed a few other bigger barns in Chester/Berks Co. So I know how things are, Again this thread wasn't posted up to cause argument, just a simple vent about 5 years ago, vs. now, and fully understand that the economy has also changed.

lilypondlane
Jan. 4, 2009, 02:16 PM
A 10-acre lot in this area goes for $350K-$400K and you're lucky if you can find one not in a subdivision with covenants restricting the number of horses you can have on your property AND your neighbors don't complain about you "running a business". Add to that the cost of building a barn -- say 8-stalls with tack room and wash stall - around $100K with water and electric. Add another $20K for a driveway, $20K for fencing and x-fencing, another $20K for an adequate riding arena. If you weren't also building a house, you'd have the additional expense of installing a well and maybe even a septic system (big bucks). An 80% mortgage would run about $2,800 a month for principal and interest -- then add all the other expenses we've already talked about. And, of course, the outlay of the 20% down you'd have to come up with ($100K+). So, even if you had all 8 stalls rented out to boarders at $400 per month, you can see there would be little to nothing left for you. :no:

XenophonKnows
Jan. 4, 2009, 02:52 PM
Wow! I need to start boarding horses. We have empty stalls and an indoor ring 15 minutes outside of Washington DC. I had no idea I might be able to charge that much for full care board (the last time I paid board, full care at a barn with an indoor ring was about $325 per month).

Good Luck. Let us know how much profit you make after you get a business license, incorporate, pay for liability & care, custody, and control insurance, pay for and mend the extra wear and tear on your facility, spend time listening and responding to boarders complaints, suggestions, and fulfilling their need for personal attention, pay for extra supplies and services, pay for workman's compensation insurance for yourself and/or other employees, etc., etc.

Or you could just do it all "off the books."

KellyS
Jan. 4, 2009, 05:39 PM
Previous poster said: "Pretty soon it's going to be cheaper and easier to just buy your own farm and keep your horses at home..."

Yeah, and bye, bye riding!?! Ask most self care people if they ride as much as their boarder counterparts...I'm always mucking rather than riding. The riding always takes back seat to the chores, especially in the winter.

Ummm...my husband and I have kept horses on our own since 2002...when we have active competition horses going, we ride/drive 6 to 7 days a week and keep the farm in tip top shape, in addition to both working full time jobs. I think saying that keeping your horses on your own means no riding time is just a cop out. If you really want to ride, you'll find the time. And having them at home/taking care of them on your own means they get the exact care they need. :)

minnie
Jan. 4, 2009, 05:51 PM
Figure $5/bag for 3.2 cu ft shavings, 6 bags min to bed a stall, some require a bag + a day to keep that level.

Figure $5/ bale of hay consisting of 11 flakes, feed 3 flakes/ meal/ day, given it's consistent weight & quality.

Figure $20/ 50lb bag high quality feed. 4lbs a & pm = $20 every 8 days (forgive bad math)

Add to that property taxes, labor f. 1 ee @ $30k/ yr, insurance, facility maintenance (like pasture seed at $70 per 40lb bag, not to mention equipment to sew, fertilize, aerate fields, etc.)

Ring footing aprox $10k every 10 yrs for avg 100 x 180 arena.

Here in SWCT near NYline, $1k/mo isn't unheard of at all...

Shavings: $6.50/bag
Hay: 7.50--8.00/bale
feed's about the same
50# of orchard grass last fall was $210.00 (beats head against wall in despair!) couldn't fertilize or lime, hope to do it this year and praying that costs start coming down again! $850.00 for just TUNE-UPS for tractor, weedeater and riding mowers.

galwaybay
Jan. 4, 2009, 06:01 PM
Another previous poster said: "I think some of you bm/bo might need to look into getting another accountant - all this about having to pay rent/mortgage, equipment, labor, insurance, health care (if you are self employed) etc etc - a lot of those expenses are business expenses and therefore can be deducted come tax time..."

Yes, but you need to make the money to get these deductions or even to pay for the deductions to then get the deductions.

Face it, just suck it up and pay your board bill or look elsewhere. We used to board and we never made any money...hence we don't board anymore.

Um that would have been me - First you don't have to pay for deductions - you deduct an amount of your income tax which reduces your income which reduces (hopefully) your tax burden...whether you pay overestimated quarterly taxes or just lump sum come tax time.. In Mont Co Maryland many farms qualify for agricultural taxes so basically they pay less in RE taxes (which are federal income tax deductions) than I do me - 1100 SF townhouse; them a 20++ acre farm w/ houses and out buildings. Trust me I'm not complaining. Both places are w/in 20-50 minutes of Downtown Washington DC and charge less than $500 per month. Whoever told Eponima she could charge $1300 -1500 per month board - not true. I don't believe there is a barn in Mont or Howard County that charges that - now perhaps w/ lessons and training it could amount to that but not as just base board. Sunset Hills is one that advertises the most board was $1200 +- including training - um that place is for sale. Wonder why?

Boarding rates are going to be consistent w/ what the expenses are in that area - some areas it is just much more expensive to run a boarding/training business than others - which can depend on a lot of factors. In my area most of the barns are fairly consistent in the board they charge -a few charge a couple hundred more per month but they are the ones w/ extra amenities, and may include training/lesson as part of the board. Several years ago one of the barns around here - very nice facility - jacked up board by about $200.00 per month - guess what the boarders all left...so she dropped her board rate down to what was more consistent in the area. Many barns in NoVa are more expensive than in MD... especially the ones that require a training program as that is factored into the board - I hope anyway...

Walking Horse Gal
Jan. 4, 2009, 06:06 PM
That is absolutely outrageous! I boarded my horses in Ohio. Top notch facility. Access to indoor, outdoor arenas, large round pens, large pastures, very big nice secure stalls. They would feed/water morning and night, and even in mid - afternoon go out and check water and throw a flake of hay for only 90$ a month. I cleaned my own stalls though, but what that might have brought the price up to like 100$.

MandyVA
Jan. 4, 2009, 06:32 PM
Whoever told Eponima she could charge $1300 -1500 per month board - not true. I don't believe there is a barn in Mont or Howard County that charges that - now perhaps w/ lessons and training it could amount to that but not as just base board. Sunset Hills is one that advertises the most board was $1200 +- including training - um that place is for sale. Wonder why?


That was me, and that's why I asked if she was on the Virginia side and truly that close to DC. I pay 975 not including training or lessons and we don't even have an indoor, and I am in McLean. People woul defintely pay that here if it was really that close. The 1300 I referenced does include some lessons, at a barn in Great Falls with an indoor.

pines4equines
Jan. 4, 2009, 08:35 PM
galwaybay said: "...First you don't have to pay for deductions - you deduct an amount of your income tax which reduces your income which reduces (hopefully) your tax burden..."

Um yes you have to pay whatever expense it is to then deduct it. For example, you buy a bag of bedding or health insurance. Then at the end of the year, you deduct from your annual gross income the full cost of or partial cost of this expense. This lowers your gross income so you pay less taxes on the net profit. Businesses pay tax on net profits, not gross income. If the boarding barn is making no money and they can't afford said expense, then they can't deduct that expense from their gross income and they may not even have a large enough net profit to pay any taxes at all. (I'm not talking property taxes, I'm talking taxes on the business.)

Either way, I didn't mean to sound so harsh in my first post. But I have noticed a lot of complaints on this BB about board bills. It would be interesting to do an actual cost analysis so people who board really understand how much money is or is not made.

They see 20 stalls x board fee and they see a huge number. They don't factor in the extraneous expenses and labor plus all the fees/taxes/insurance that go into having employees that really kills. Yes, they understand feed, hay, bedding but all the other expenses that go into a business, the average Joe really doesn't understand. And really a boarding business is a business. Hopefully someone is making enough money at this boarding business so they DON'T have to work a full time job to help defray barn expenses. That's what burns out a lot of B/Os.

Woodland
Jan. 4, 2009, 09:33 PM
I have a small place an hour outside of Chicago. Big box stalls with turn out included in groups. Nice size but not huge indoor arena, groomed trails, Purina feeds to suit your horses needs. GREAT HAY laid back comfortable atmosphere $250/mo The trail rider place down the street charges $200 And within 15miles every other barn is $450 or better - but most of them just rent the facilities they run. And then there are two high end places nearby at $650 I keep considering raising the rent, but I would lose my old boarders and they are like family.

lolalola
Jan. 4, 2009, 10:17 PM
Horse boarding is allowed for farmland assessment in NJ. For more info, contact the NJ Horse Council at www.njhorsecouncil.com. There are a lot of ads for boarding in the Horse of the Delaware Valley, and few of them are over $500 per month - some of these even claim to have indoors. Of course, some of them may be places you wouldn't want to be caught dead in, but others may be decent. Field board is an option more people should consider for their horses. It's a healthier way for horses to live, and you're not dealing with bedding and the workload is much less. My horses are boarded at a farm in NJ with run-in sheds and auto-waterers. We have a nice outdoor and miles of trails, and can hack over to a few nearby indoors for lessons. So many people have come to our barn and just can't fathom their horse not living in a stall. Or, no wash stall, just a hose outside. Some of the nearby farms charging $1000 and up are full of bling - paintings on the wall, sculptures, full kitchen facilities, fancy-schmancy lounges. It's all very nice, but if that is the kind of atmosphere you want, you've got to pay for it, on top of the training, etc.

SandyHTF
Jan. 4, 2009, 11:02 PM
That is absolutely outrageous! I boarded my horses in Ohio. Top notch facility. Access to indoor, outdoor arenas, large round pens, large pastures, very big nice secure stalls. They would feed/water morning and night, and even in mid - afternoon go out and check water and throw a flake of hay for only 90$ a month. I cleaned my own stalls though, but what that might have brought the price up to like 100$.

That's amazing. I notice it's past tense... what decade was that? ;)

I have mine at home. With hay at an average of 15.00 a bale, feed 16.50, shavings nearly 7.00... even forgetting all the other costs, I can't match that.

To the poster who said bye bye riding. I have gone through that... get so focused on chores, maintenance and improvements that I don't make time to ride. Once I realized what I was doing, I made the time to sit on my horse and work with the foal at least a few times a week. It creates better balance in my life and I am a lot happier for it.

Lauren!
Jan. 5, 2009, 12:51 AM
Ummm...my husband and I have kept horses on our own since 2002...when we have active competition horses going, we ride/drive 6 to 7 days a week and keep the farm in tip top shape, in addition to both working full time jobs. I think saying that keeping your horses on your own means no riding time is just a cop out. If you really want to ride, you'll find the time. And having them at home/taking care of them on your own means they get the exact care they need. :)

You are Superwoman :yes: I couldn't do it...what's your schedule like? What time do you start in the morning? Finish at night? Do you have an indoor or lights outside, or a mild climate? I'm honestly curious!

PinesForEquines and I live in the same (general) area. It's cold, and wet, and frozen here this time of year. I don't have an indoor or ring lights (or a ring, but it wouldn't matter much anyway). I leave for work early, and it's well after dark by the time I get home this time of year. Not to mention, when I get home, I'm tired :lol: Yes, my horses do get the exact care they need (as they did when boarded, but I save $$$ this way, and I get to see my kids (the four legged kind!) more) but I rarely ride. It will get better when the weather warms up, but to say I could ride everyday would be unreasonable. It simply can't happen if I want to get any sleep before I go back to work!

DiablosHalo
Jan. 5, 2009, 08:58 AM
I stopped riding 6m after I got my own place. It started as "I'll get back to riding in the spring", then it was "I'll ride next weekend after I fix this fence this weekend". On and on and on... never did get back to riding any measureable amount of time. And I have 7 horses of my own plus husband and mom's horses here too- all freeloading.

I do board racehorses- but no riding horses. I charge close to the OP's rant-rate and still do not break even. Let alone take a salary, vacation, or even myself out to dinner!

After you factor in:

mortgage ($3-6k depending on area/size for typical postage stamp place)

insurance (I have 5 policies. Depending on how much coverage you are looking at ~ $2-8000/year)

buildings (either fixing up buildings or building new ones. Barns, sheds, storage, garages, etc) (ie..$130k for my one new barn. $40k fixing old barn. Plus run-in's in all fields, new storage sheds, fix up all garage, etc)

equipment (tractor, gator, 4wheeler, truck/trailer, all the way down to tools that you have to have to upkeep a farm.)

feed/hay/shavings (varies greatly. Quality hay around here is $300+/ton. Feed is down to $15/bag. Shavings $6/bag)

labor (experienced labor runs $300-$600/week here)

That's just the basics. There are lots of other costs to running a place. Not to mention the headache/worry you have when having other people on your property. My TB clients hardly ever come to see their horses. I could not bear to have people on my property day in/out. You just can not buy enough Tylenol to put up with some people!

Anyone with their own place will tell you, whether boarding or not, you never turn a big profit. I have 37 stalls but now only use 24 of them (main barn). It got to a point of diminishing returns bc of the excessive amount of labor and supplies I went through. So I upped the board and cut the number of horses by 40% and it works great now.

I've tried a few things to try to bring in more income (renting second barn out, lessons to neighborhood kids- blah!, etc)- but they were not worth the headache/effort so now I'm back to the original plan...

My husband and I both work full time on top of having the farm and a newborn... so I feel the pain on both sides. Having to have boarders of some kind and keeping a place above water.

Rayman421
Jan. 5, 2009, 09:18 AM
I boarded in Culpeper - yes, it was a few years ago- indoor ring, all feed, stalls cleaned 7x week and trails $300/month.

I saw a huge increase in board when the gas prices shot up, and therefore hay and grain doubled. I can still find stall board at $350/ with good amenities (riding ring, wash rack, good feed, etc) But what bothers me is that I have a SMALL pony and they want $275 AND UP for PASTURE BOARD! No frills, few amenities. I know what it costs to feed my pony - I've had him at home, and it is $100/month with NO pasture. That's hay at $14-$18/bale and grain (1 bag @ $15/month).

I can see adding in costs for insurance, etc., but doubling it? I found a place locally that pasture boards for $125 month, & includes monthly deworming. I pay for grain, but she feeds 2x day, provides hay 2x day from Nov-May, and will blanket if needed. No amenities but there are a couple of stalls if needed for lay ups. Horses have 25 acres of grass with shelter and salt provided. I find this very reasonable, especially for a pony. I looked into renting a place with a paddock and they man there wanted $150/month PER PONY for just the paddock. No stalls, no feed, nothing except use of the paddock!! I decided that wasn't feasible mainly b/c he never had horses either, and once they pooped and drew some flies, he wasn't going to be so happy with a 'horse paddock'. He was just seeing dollar signs.

KellyS
Jan. 5, 2009, 10:17 AM
You are Superwoman :yes: I couldn't do it...what's your schedule like? What time do you start in the morning? Finish at night? Do you have an indoor or lights outside, or a mild climate? I'm honestly curious!

Not really. :D

I get up at 6 am--feed everyone (we have 4), turnout, and do stalls; back in the house by 7:15. Get a shower and off to work a little before 8 am (I work from 8:30 am to 5 pm). My husband works shift work, but if he's home in the morning, it takes a lot less time (I sleep in until 6:30!).

Home by 5:30 pm...if hubby has already gotten home, horses are in and fed; if not, I bring everyone in and feed them. During the winter, I haul to an indoor twice a week to ride (it's about 10 minutes away) or get up at 5 am and ride before work (that doesn't happen too often with this night owl!).

Summer is great--plenty of daylight to ride/drive (my husband drives) and get other farm projects done; since most competing is done during the spring/summer/fall months, it's easy to keep everyone in work. When we are doing combined driving events, we haul the pony/carriage to a nearby horse park to do conditioning drives once or twice a week.

I bedcheck at 10 pm (hay/pick stalls, which makes stalls in the morning much easier).

Weekends are for doing "domestic" stuff--cleaning (sort of) the house, paying bills, laundry, etc. The most challenging times are if we've been gone at a show for 3-4 days because the house stuff gets majorly neglected and then I'm playing catch up the following week. ;) I don't work late because I'm typically on my laptop at night in front of the TV keeping up with email. I don't really cook, so we are pretty easy going about dinner (hey, ice cream counts, doesn't it?).

We do not have kids (yet), and I know that will really change up our routine and make a lot less time for the horses. But we're not quite there yet. Needless to say, I never have a problem getting to sleep at night!

pines4equines
Jan. 5, 2009, 10:31 AM
Kellys - I'm exhausted after reading your post! You go girl! You have way more energy than me! I'm 47 and again, just reading the post is enough for me to want to take a nap! :lol::lol::cool::yes:

LAZ
Jan. 5, 2009, 11:09 AM
That is absolutely outrageous! I boarded my horses in Ohio. Top notch facility. Access to indoor, outdoor arenas, large round pens, large pastures, very big nice secure stalls. They would feed/water morning and night, and even in mid - afternoon go out and check water and throw a flake of hay for only 90$ a month. I cleaned my own stalls though, but what that might have brought the price up to like 100$.


Yeah, I paid $70/month for pasture board, horses were in excellent flesh, lovely pastures, 140 acres to hack on + miles of dirt roads.

Of course, that was in 1978....

SaddleFitterVA
Jan. 5, 2009, 01:06 PM
You don't have to give up riding when you have your own barn.

I still ride.

My schedule is roughly as follows, unless I have an early meeting at work:
5am, get up, get cup of coffee, get back in bed, snooze 2x (18minutes)
5:20, get up for real, pull on workout clothes, 25 minutes on treadmill, 15 minutes of stretching, another cup of coffee in there somewhere.
6:15 or so, out to barn, feed, if horses are in, clean stalls, throw them out, ride one, getting on by 7:15.
8:15 in house to shower, eat/inhale breakfast, get ready for work.
8:40 or so leave for work
9:30-6ish, work
6:45 home
7-8 (or 9) ride another, get morning feed ready, toss out hay, check water.
8:30 cook dinner
9pm, eat dinner, pack lunches with leftovers, check email/boards, set up coffee maker for morning start.
10:30pm bed...on a good night. 11:30 is not unheard of.

The treadmill is the hardest to keep in there and I only cook about 4x a week, making ample food for leftovers. We don't eat prepackaged food much, so that means I cook.

My husband makes breakfast most mornings and leaves it on the counter for me, he also feeds the dogs. My son is a senior in HS and takes care of getting himself to work.

pines4equines
Jan. 5, 2009, 02:11 PM
Lauren! said: "PinesForEquines and I live in the same (general) area. It's cold, and wet, and frozen here this time of year. I don't have an indoor or ring lights (or a ring, but it wouldn't matter much anyway). I leave for work early, and it's well after dark by the time I get home this time of year. Not to mention, when I get home, I'm tired Yes, my horses do get the exact care they need (as they did when boarded, but I save $$$ this way, and I get to see my kids (the four legged kind!) more) but I rarely ride. It will get better when the weather warms up, but to say I could ride everyday would be unreasonable. It simply can't happen if I want to get any sleep before I go back to work!"

You know I think if I had an indoor with lights, I'd ride more at night in the winter. I'm a night person and I really kick in at 7PM. Also, I don't have a riding arena on the farm so when I school it's in this smallish grassy area. But still, over the years, the riding is what is sacrificed the most except in good weather when I sneak out of the office for trailering to the trail head. Lauren!, I too get so tired these days at night after work. Well, see you out there on the trail this Spring!!! Don't forget the Stewart Ride, the first either Saturday or Sunday in May! Mark your calendar!

Melyni
Jan. 5, 2009, 03:10 PM
Try calling some more barns in the same area and ask their prices, I find that the price tends to depend on the geographical area a lot, might be something to do with supply and demand as well as land taxes etc.

The $625 in the Raleigh area for a barn with an indoor/outdoor and nice turnout is a bargain. enjoy it while it lasts.

I charge less at my barn, but then I am way out in the country and don't have the big metropolitan population to pull from.

But prices are going up on everything, grain, bedding hay labor etc. So don't be surprised if the prices do go up.
Yours
MW

danceronice
Jan. 5, 2009, 03:58 PM
on the north shore of massachusetts , even backyard barns are around 500-600 and if you want an indoor it is 800-1200 (and many require lessons so add on another 250-300/month...). There are not many barns in the 400 range any more around here so we ended up buying a small horse property and honestly the mortgage is less than board on our 2 horses would be (and if course now we get to do everything our way :D )

Two words, hon: New. Hampshire. If you're anywhere near where I used to live it would be not too bad a drive to the Seacoast at any rate.

Well, also "South Shore" but that's a bit of a haul.

My brother lives in Westcester Co, NY. $1500 is the going rate.

galwaybay
Jan. 5, 2009, 09:17 PM
galwaybay said: "...First you don't have to pay for deductions - you deduct an amount of your income tax which reduces your income which reduces (hopefully) your tax burden..."

Um yes you have to pay whatever expense it is to then deduct it. For example, you buy a bag of bedding or health insurance. Then at the end of the year, you deduct from your annual gross income the full cost of or partial cost of this expense. This lowers your gross income so you pay less taxes on the net profit. Businesses pay tax on net profits, not gross income. If the boarding barn is making no money and they can't afford said expense, then they can't deduct that expense from their gross income and they may not even have a large enough net profit to pay any taxes at all. (I'm not talking property taxes, I'm talking taxes on the business.)

Either way, I didn't mean to sound so harsh in my first post. But I have noticed a lot of complaints on this BB about board bills. It would be interesting to do an actual cost analysis so people who board really understand how much money is or is not made.

They see 20 stalls x board fee and they see a huge number. They don't factor in the extraneous expenses and labor plus all the fees/taxes/insurance that go into having employees that really kills. Yes, they understand feed, hay, bedding but all the other expenses that go into a business, the average Joe really doesn't understand. And really a boarding business is a business. Hopefully someone is making enough money at this boarding business so they DON'T have to work a full time job to help defray barn expenses. That's what burns out a lot of B/Os.

I understand about bills, labor and all that and I assume a lot of other posters understand about the cost of hay, feed, employees insurance, etc. My BO is doing quite well for herself and makes about $30K more per year than I do... so she's doing something right I'd say - and she has a relatively small business - but she was able to purchase her own farm actually 30 years ago (just paid off the final payment) and her mortgage payment was ridiculously low.. Quite frankly I don't know how anyone would be able to afford to purchase a farm and keep it running now unless they have another source of income.. Perhaps now would be a good time for someone who is interested and able to buy property - do it now!

pines4equines
Jan. 5, 2009, 10:40 PM
Previous poster said: "...but she was able to purchase her own farm actually 30 years ago..."

Now this is the way to do it! Shoot if I didn't have to pay office rent, it would sure free up some dough!

galwaybay
Jan. 5, 2009, 11:15 PM
Yep she got her piece of America 30 years ago (she's planning some sort of mortgage burning). We've had plenty of talks about how difficult it is for new trainers to make it in this business - as renting a barn can be quite costly and some Landlords want their piece of the pie as well - another factor which is sometimes overlooked.

I am very lucky where I am in MD (DC Metro area) as I've said previously the majority of the barns within my immediate area seem to be fairly consistent in the board prices w/ similar amenities - however depending on the barn - if it's a show barn prices are going to be somewhat higher due to whatever program is required to be in that barn - usually a combination of lessons and/or training.

One of the other posters from this area but in VA said she was paying just under $1,000 - yes, I think many of the barns in NOVA are more costly.

What seems to be somewhat of a trend - at least here (and trend is probably not right word) but you have older farms that people haven't taken care of and are either being sold or just not in business - and then you have people who have recently bought property - those of course are going to be more expensive as the barn is brand new vs 15+ years old - those expenses have to be recouped somehow... and of course the newer farms are putting in snazzier amenities which also bumps up the board.

saddleup
Jan. 5, 2009, 11:22 PM
You don't have to give up riding, but I do ride less in the wintertime without an indoor. I haul to my trainer's twice a week, where I used to ride four times a week when I boarded. Part of that was guilt, though, for my horses being cooped up in their stalls. Now that they're out all day I don't feel the need to get them out.

I've had mine at home for two years, and the prices on everything have doubled. It's still great to have them at home, but not the financial windfall I thought it would be when I wasn't having to pay board on three horses anymore.

simon63
Jan. 8, 2009, 12:15 PM
Well, at $500 per month feed, hay,shavings, insurance & utilities would be paid, but I work for 45-50 hours per week for free (stacking hay, cleaning, mucking and turning out). The only barns that can afford to charge less, grow their own hay. If you want to work for free, I'll sign over my barn to you right away!

Snowflake
Jan. 8, 2009, 01:55 PM
I pay $175 for full-board at a backyard barn in a very upscale area. The family has owned the farm for well over 100 years. It's not the fanciest place, but the barn is beautiful (And HUGE) and there isn't an indoor - though we have access to a neighbors if we want to walk to it. I'm waiting for the day that she realizes that she doesn't charge enough for everything she does. Full care includes daily turnout (all day), pastures with run in's, a large outdoor sand ring, and 4x/day hay feedings. Grain needs to be supplied by the owner. (my horse is an air fern and has never been on grain.) It's me and one other boarder. Six horses total, including the BO's 3. So, all in all, it's quiet and drama free.