USHJA Emerging Athletes Program

[Elevation15]

Does anyone know how successful/advanced a rider needs to be in order to be considered for this program? I know there are screening trials at the three foot level... is this more for really good riders who have a horse who can only do 3' or also for riders that are really 3' riders?

[neutral milk hotel]

Bump - has the USHJA put out any more information on this program? I thought it was supposed to take place at least partially this spring? How difficult would it be to participate without a horse? From what I understand they evaluate the riders at various host farms, it would be great if there were horses available to catchride there but I understand the danger of handing out horses to random people, without first knowing their ability. It's just frustrating trying to participate in such programs without owning a horse/while in college...

[CallMeGrace]

Personally, if this is to be truly a grassroots program, I think they should aim it at young people without horses or funds to be "noticed" any other way.

[grandprixjump]

If you don't have a million dollar horse, 20+ million in the bank to work with, you won't stand a chance, even if you got into the first round of the selection process.
It's kind of like becoming a GP rider on your own, virtually impossible, if you have one horse, you either destroy that horse competing every weekend, or give up, if you chose not to destroy your horse, you would be lucky to be in about 10 GP's a year, and people will still only see the people with a string of horses, and in the GP EVERY weekend with 3 horses per.

[Lucassb]

While I do not agree that $20 million is required - or even a $100k horse - the point of the program is to provide "a stepladder to international competition," ie, supporting riders who may one day be on the Team, not your average local 3' rider.

We could argue all day long about whether that truly represents the grassroots or not, but the program is aimed at those whose skills are already at a pretty high level. Those riders can participate in screening trials which culminate in a national training camp; that camp concludes with a nations cup style competition (I am guessing not over a children's hunter course.)

I can understand the frustration of those who do not have the resources to get to the level where they might be considered for a program like this, but I also believe that for those without unlimited checkbooks, the time honored methods of earning opportunity CAN provide those opportunities. Groom for a top barn, be a working student, etc...

The USHJA site has applications which outline what they are looking for. I believe they take 8 riders per height section (3', 3'6", 4') and you can only apply to the session for your zone. Looks like they are planning to list the dates and locations for the 2009 sessions this month.

[Lucassb]

For those who think it is not a true grassroots program... what would you suggest? Who do you think should provide the horses and the training for these riders?

I grew up in a non horsey family and was a once a week lesson rider for years, so I understand the frustration - but I also think you have to be realistic.

I live in a fairly competitive area, and I see lots and lots of young riders who compete locally at 3'. They are probably better educated than many of the riders who are limited to riding lesson horses - but I wouldn't put them on my horse, even for a high level clinic. (And he's not a fancy GP jumper, just a nice amateur horse.)

Call me mean or selfish or whatever you like, but I can't afford to put my nice horse at risk. And I don't think the USHJA can, either. Horses of that caliber are very valuable. If a horseless kid wants to sit on something like that, the best route that *I* know of is to be a working student.

[CallMeGrace]

I have said this before, and I will say it again. The H/J world needs a grassroots program similar to Pony Club. The eventing community, many of whom are PC graduates, really support the PC organization and members. Preference for working student positions at eventing barns are often given to PC graduates. I see very little community support for H/J kids who want to learn and become "horsemasters".

[khobstetter]

I am handling the EAP programs for the West Coast and all I can tell you is there is alot of mis-information and assumptions out there.

The EAP program is definately for the riders who dream of bigger things but are not there yet. You only have to be "proficiant" at any of the heights 3' - 3'6" - or 4'.....that means safe an able to jump around a bit at each of the heights. You do not need a high priced horse to do that.

PLEASE at least look at the program and take a chance at a spot on one of the dates in your area.

Years go, right after each of the Olympics, Bert, Frank and some of the others would travel around the country and look for raw young talent...and they found several at all different parts of the country. The times have changed and I personally am appreciative of USHJA for at least doing SOMETHING...it may not be perfect but at least it is something.

Jump out there and take a risk ......APPLY!!! If you are not one of the selected, PLEASE come out an watch and give input.

GRACE,,,,,this is a perfect program for the Pony Club riders to apply for.

ALSO.....if you are in northern or southern California I could use A LOT of volunteers to help get this off the ground!!!!

[CallMeGrace]

That's encouraging! I still think the H/J community needs a PC. Here in our area, PC is for eventers, not H/J kids. Anyway, I am not in CA but if volunteers are needed for my area (KY) I am happy to offer any help I can.

[WeDoItAll]

That's encouraging! I still think the H/J community needs a PC. Here in our area, PC is for eventers, not H/J kids. Anyway, I am not in CA but if volunteers are needed for my area (KY) I am happy to offer any help I can.

At least as far as the riding portion. They now allow/encourage "specialties" - so in addition to the standard C-3 and above track which focused more on eventing (or all-around), they now offer specialties in both show jumping and dressage. They added these specialties a couple of years ago, and it shouldn't take too much longer before we see more kids taking these specialty tracks.

For example, the C-3 SJ specialty requires SJ heights at 3'6" (essentially Level II-III)(compared to the standard C-3 at heights of 3'3") and still requires acceptable flat work and some natural obstacles to 3'.

The B SJ specialty now requires SJ heights to 3'9" (compared to the standard B at 3'7") and still requires certain flatwork and some natural obstacles to 3'6".


The A SJ specialty now requires SJ heights to 4'3" - with courses as typically seen in USEF SJ Talent Search classes - (compared to the standard A at 3'9") and still requires certain flatwork and some natural obstacles to 3'9".

Ratings up to and including the C-2 are essentially still an "all-around" rider and didn't really change all that much in their riding expectations.

[Tackpud]

Personally, if this is to be truly a grassroots program, I think they should aim it at young people without horses or funds to be "noticed" any other way.

Sorry - but this is NOT a "grassroots" only program. It is designed to identify riders who are prospective team riders - not your everyday 3' rider. Anyone can apply, but know they are looking for specific talent.

[CallMeGrace]

I don't think anyone is confusing "grassroots" with "talentless". Here's the description: "In March 2008, the USHJA Board of Directors developed the Emerging Athletes Program as a means to identify and support talented young rider’s competing at the grassroots level of competition in our sport."

The question is, what is "grassroots"?

[Tackpud]

At the convention it was stated that this was not specifically a "grassroots" program - interesting that that is not the same description that you quoted below. From what we were told in the associates meeting, it sounded like they were really aiming at those who might be showing at any level but might not have the training or horsepower to move up. But not that they were specifically limiting it to the "grassroots" riders who don't have the finances to show at the "A" level.

It will be interesting to see who applies and is taken to these clinics.

[sopha]

I think it is important that anyone who feels qualified applies to the program. The program will be only for the elite if they are the only ones that apply!

[khobstetter]

Hi Tackpud....I presented the program to the Affiliates meeting and got a bit of a brisk response with some people immediately concerned that "grassroots" was not the right term and didn't include them. Maybe I didn't use the right terms, AND I did get a little rattled that the first response from some was so negative. It is not for the 2'6" "grassroots" person...it is for the jumper "grassroots" type riders who really could take advantage of this type of program.

If I gave you the wrong impression, I am really sorry BUT it IS for any of the grassroots riders "proficient" at 3' - 3'6" or 4' height fences.

IMHO..and it is only MY HO......grassroots riders are riders who have not been zipping around all the time on the 'big' circuit but ride well enough to be 'proficient' at those heights....

That could mean anything from the Pony Club rider..... to my child in the local association who has NOT the money to campaign on the "A" circuit...to the rider who occasionally does show at the "A"s ...to the rider who wants to!!!

I think what I am trying to say is that I would LOVE to see ALL riders who are even interested at all to at least apply for the program. Even if they are not one of the selected ones, it gets the information of the people interested to USHJA and those of us who are at least creating and promoting this type of programs and more.

From that information of interested riders, MAYBE another program can be created...and then another..and then another.

It does NOT hurt to at least apply!!!!!

[khobstetter]

I am posting the EAP criteria for the program...hope this helps. It includes the contact info for the 2 west coast sessions.
*******

In March 2008, the USHJA Board of Directors developed the Emerging Athletes Program as a means to identify and support talented young rider’s competing at the grassroots level of competition in our sport.

The mission of the Emerging Athletes Program is to develop and implement a system of identifying and nurturing talented young riders, by providing them with the support and assistance necessary to facilitate the opportunity to reach their full potential by creating a National program as a pipeline to International competition.

The Emerging Athletes Program will provide young riders in our sport with the opportunity to learn from our country’s top professional riders and trainers. The training sessions will evaluate the rider’s horsemanship, knowledge and riding ability.

Following each Level I Training Session, where the rider must be proficient at either 3', 3'6" or 4', the clinician will evaluate the riders and create a ranking list to determine which riders will be invited to continue on and participate in the Regional Level II Training Session. After the Regional Level II Training Session, a selected group of riders will be invited to participate in the National Training Session.

The National Training Session will include extensive instruction with riding sessions, nutritionists, veterinarians, blacksmiths and sport psychologists. The National Training Session will culminate in a Nations Cup type competition for the riders. The top two individuals selected from the National Training Session will be the recipients of a grant for one month of advanced training.

Athletes interested in applying to participate in the Level I Training Session must be able to display proficiency in completing jumper style courses over the respective fence height for which they are applying.
• Training Session will be divided into sections by fence height: 3’, 3’6 and 4’0.
• At Level I Training Session, a maximum of eight (8) riders will be accepted per height section.
• Applicants must 21 years of age or under.
• Applicants must be a current member of USHJA in good standing.
If you are interested, please contact USHJA for more information and watch the USHJA website for more information. www.ushja.org or contact WCAR at www.westcoastactiveriders.com for detailed information.

[TBlitz]

I definitely will try to apply for this. It seems like a program that I'd fit into since I'm a jumper rider who is proficient with higher jumping but I don't have the funding to compete at that level.

I'm also worried about the horse thing. I have a horse that I trained and could easily do the 4' section, but I've pretty much retired him due to arthritis in his hocks and one hind fetlock... after fully recovering from EPM. I feel like it would be cruel to take him from retirement and put him back into work when he'll never be completely comfortable with it (and will probably hit more rails with his hind end). I may be able to borrow a horse from a friend, but I'd have to put in some training for him to get to the level I'd like (which I don't really mind if I have the time since I'll be in school full time and working part time). For some reason I look much prettier jumping the 4'+ jumps (not kidding), so ideally I'd try to get into that level.

I'm waiting for the dates and locations to come out this month!

[hideyourheart03]

Where is the application? That's my question. I read the whole thing on the site and couldn't find anything about what to send and where to send it.

I would totally apply. In fact, I would absolutely love to do this. Now maybe some will shoot me because I'm not exactly at the bottom of grassroots, but I was only able to show at the 'AA' level because of the fact that I was a working student. I have a DVD and horsey resume, now I just need to know where to send it for this program!

[IzzyBean]

Where is the application? That's my question. I read the whole thing on the site and couldn't find anything about what to send and where to send it.

I would totally apply. In fact, I would absolutely love to do this. Now maybe some will shoot me because I'm not exactly at the bottom of grassroots, but I was only able to show at the 'AA' level because of the fact that I was a working student. I have a DVD and horsey resume, now I just need to know where to send it for this program!


I just got done reading all the information on the USAJH web-site too, i could not find anything either.
What happens if you selected and go to the trainging session.. what happens after that?
What is he award to the winner of this?
or, do zones compete against each other?:confused:

[justathought]

Like many here... I am also confused.

I appauld the USHJA for doing something..... and I agree that the USHJA cannot do it all for any rider. However, it is confusing and frustrating when there are mixed signals.

So, what does that mean... well, if you call it a grassroots program - and the USHJA has - then it ought to be focused on talented riders with the potential to make it on the A circuit. They may not currently have the training, the experience, the horse, or the finances to make it on the A circuit - but, if they were identified, they might just find that helping hand that provides the littlest crack in the door to get a start. For those that say that the opportunities can be created - be a working student etc - I say SOMETIMES and only SOMETIMES it works - the kid gets lucky, the trainer takes a chance, the horse appears. IMHE most of the time, the wroking student slaves away for a morsel of training and an occassional ride - that is the rule. I am NOT saying that it doesn't happen, I am saying that there are far too few trainers with the ability, desire, and means to offer opportunities to riders who might make it. There are also no established ways for riders with potential to make these connections in a logical meaningful way.

If this program helps on any of those dimensions, it will be a step in the right direction.

Now, for the confusing part. The USHJA website has a picture of an"Emerging Athlete". I do not know the rider in any way - I am sure that she is a talented athlete with the potential to go further. BUT, the picture is clearly from an A show and the rider - at least according to the USEF - has multiple horses available to her. That is not a bad thing.... more power to her. But, it is not what most would call a "grassroots" athlete....

The height levels start at 3' - and top out at 4' - I do not agree with Lucassb that "We could argue all day long about whether that truly represents the grassroots or not, but the program is aimed at those whose skills are already at a pretty high level. Those riders can participate in screening trials which culminate in a national training camp; that camp concludes with a nations cup style competition (I am guessing not over a children's hunter course.)"

Instead it sound to me that it is geared to young riders that have competed in the equitation classes - locally or regionally (perhaps even at some A shows) in the 3' medals and then- if they had the horse at the big eq and USET level or alternatively in the jumpers at similar heights.

It will be interesting to see who applies and more importantly who is accepted. The riders accepted will tell the tale of who the USHJA aimed this program at. Hopefully, the USHJA will cast a wider net than just riders who already have the horse, the training and the means to make a name for themselves on the A circuit.

JMHO

[CallMeGrace]

It will be interesting to see who applies and more importantly who is accepted. The riders accepted will tell the tale of who the USHJA aimed this program at. Hopefully, the USHJA will cast a wider net than just riders who already have the horse, the training and the means to make a name for themselves on the A circuit.
JMHO

My hopes exactly!:yes:

[Tackpud]

KHob - you did a great job with the presentation - I think we were all just a little confused about who this was really going to attract. I understand the issue is about finding raw talent, but there was concern about some of the requirements as we understood them. There are kids out there who are capable of meeting all of the requirements to apply, but don't have the horse to do the clinic on.

I just encourage anyone to apply who can - it will start out a little slowly, but I think it's a program that can really take off and work for the country. We need to find those future team riders and work with them now so they can represent the country in the future.

[justathought]

For those who think it is not a true grassroots program... what would you suggest? Who do you think should provide the horses and the training for these riders?
...
Call me mean or selfish or whatever you like, but I can't afford to put my nice horse at risk. And I don't think the USHJA can, either. Horses of that caliber are very valuable. If a horseless kid wants to sit on something like that, the best route that *I* know of is to be a working student.

By the way, I do not think that you are mean, selfish or anything else... You - like most of us - have worked hard to get a nice competitive horse and, God knows, enough can go wrong without taking any chances.

I also agree that people need to be realistic. The USHJA and/or the USEF cannot provide horses for those who desire them - they can't even do it for those at the top of our sport.

What can be done is a program like this
- designed to identify riders with potential
- designed to expose riders to top trainers
- designed to encourage/persuade trainers to take an interest in riders with potential
- designed to educate riders who otherwise would not be exposed to top trainers and top knowledge

Working student positions are SOMETIMES a way to get opportunities. But, too often, they are simply a way for trainers to get cheap labor. (Not a criticism just a statement of many who have been working students).

Young riders with ambition and talent - who are willing work hard but do not have the means to do it alone - need a way to connect to the top of the industry. And, the industry needs an efficient way to identify talent and to nuture it - where the individual is willing to commit themselve.

[CallMeGrace]

My son is a working student, and has been able to ride some fabulous horses in that job! However, he does not compete them - the pros or the owners themselves do that. It is nice to see a program that doesn't depend upon your show rankings to qualify, because I am sure there are many talented young riders, working hard, who do not appear on anyone's radar because they are the backbones of training programs, behind the scenes. I hope that is the type of rider we see chosen for these trials.

["A"HunterGal]

Well, I was extremely excited about this program until I saw the age limit: 21!!!

This seems to be to be extremely young. Most people who are 21 aren't even out of college yet. This cuts off a TON of talented riders who are REALLY ready to take the next step who might be in their mid 20s due to jobs as working students, assistant trainers, barn managers, and other real world experience jobs, before they start out to make a name for themselves. I would like to see the age limit considerably increased. It seems like this program is more for junior riders, and let's be honest, how many junior riders have the amount of barn management, health care, nutrition, and fine tuned riding needed to step up to a Nations Cup setting? I thought by Emerging Atheletes they meant people between the ages of 20 and and late 20s, maybe even 30. Those riders really are ready and waiting to be discovered, and have worked many years behind the scenes to have that chance.

[KnKShowmom]

It seems like this program is more for junior riders, and let's be honest, how many junior riders have the amount of barn management, health care, nutrition, and fine tuned riding needed to step up to a Nations Cup setting?

Well maybe thats what needs to change with our Jr. riders - that they become a well rounded "horsemaster" (thanks GM) not just a rider. Its all well and good to be able to sit the tack, but if you don't know all the other steps that get you to the ring, then you are very one sided.

To represent our country, wouldn't it be better to have our riders be the total package???

["A"HunterGal]

Well maybe thats what needs to change with our Jr. riders - that they become a well rounded "horsemaster" (thanks GM) not just a rider. Its all well and good to be able to sit the tack, but if you don't know all the other steps that get you to the ring, then you are very one sided.

To represent our country, wouldn't it be better to have our riders be the total package???

Yes, I agree, but there are already programs in place (4H, Pony Club, IHSA, Etc) that deal with this at the junior level. I think for the emerging riders program, it needs to ALREADY be there, not something they learn during the program. I also believe that it should be the real world, hands on knowledge that someone can only acquire through experience. It's one thing to "know" the signs of colic, it's another thing entirely to recognize it during night check at a major horse show and act immediately. I think the latter is the level of an Emerging Professional.

And maybe THAT's the kicker. To be an emerging PRO, I think that includes several years of working underneath top professionals honing real world riding/management skills. If this program is for emerging PROFESSIONAL riders, then the age level should reflect that. Perhaps I'm mis-interpreting the goal of the program. Is it not for emerging PROs that haven't had the chance for recognition?

If not, it's really nothing more than a glorified clinic for talented junior riders.

[KnKShowmom]

True, but knowledge of nutrition, healthcare, etc should be in place before they apply and then taken to higher degree of understanding during this program and I don't necessarily think that is a Jr. thing but my take on this was to groom the next generation of international riders.

Historically, the top eq riders, not the top hunter riders transistion to our teams and along the way they should be receiving instruction from their trainers in the barn as well as in the tack, not just handing their horses off to the groom and going home.

[luvs2ridewbs]

But now with the development of the Hunter Derby, shouldn't this also include riders who could become talented hunter derby riders as well?

[2016 RoyalCrown KTug]

So where would one find the application?? :cool:

[CallMeGrace]

The locations and applications are supposed to be posted this month on the USHJA site.

[Lucassb]

Like many here... I am also confused.

I appauld the USHJA for doing something..... and I agree that the USHJA cannot do it all for any rider. However, it is confusing and frustrating when there are mixed signals.

So, what does that mean... well, if you call it a grassroots program - and the USHJA has - then it ought to be focused on talented riders with the potential to make it on the A circuit. They may not currently have the training, the experience, the horse, or the finances to make it on the A circuit - but, if they were identified, they might just find that helping hand that provides the littlest crack in the door to get a start. For those that say that the opportunities can be created - be a working student etc - I say SOMETIMES and only SOMETIMES it works - the kid gets lucky, the trainer takes a chance, the horse appears. IMHE most of the time, the wroking student slaves away for a morsel of training and an occassional ride - that is the rule. I am NOT saying that it doesn't happen, I am saying that there are far too few trainers with the ability, desire, and means to offer opportunities to riders who might make it. There are also no established ways for riders with potential to make these connections in a logical meaningful way.

If this program helps on any of those dimensions, it will be a step in the right direction.

Now, for the confusing part. The USHJA website has a picture of an"Emerging Athlete". I do not know the rider in any way - I am sure that she is a talented athlete with the potential to go further. BUT, the picture is clearly from an A show and the rider - at least according to the USEF - has multiple horses available to her. That is not a bad thing.... more power to her. But, it is not what most would call a "grassroots" athlete....

The height levels start at 3' - and top out at 4' - I do not agree with Lucassb that "We could argue all day long about whether that truly represents the grassroots or not, but the program is aimed at those whose skills are already at a pretty high level. Those riders can participate in screening trials which culminate in a national training camp; that camp concludes with a nations cup style competition (I am guessing not over a children's hunter course.)"

Instead it sound to me that it is geared to young riders that have competed in the equitation classes - locally or regionally (perhaps even at some A shows) in the 3' medals and then- if they had the horse at the big eq and USET level or alternatively in the jumpers at similar heights.

It will be interesting to see who applies and more importantly who is accepted. The riders accepted will tell the tale of who the USHJA aimed this program at. Hopefully, the USHJA will cast a wider net than just riders who already have the horse, the training and the means to make a name for themselves on the A circuit.

JMHO

I think actually we are actually in more agreement that it might seem. Some people define "grass roots riders" as those who haven't had an opportunity to show at the big A shows. Others would define them as riders who can't afford a horse at all - maybe those who show some talent on school horses, etc. My own humble opinion is that it seems to be aimed at riders who have a pretty solid foundation already; that is based on the outline of the program on the site as well as on the graphics which accompany the program description - and my idea of what a nations cup style competition looks like.

As you note, the athlete that is pictured on the Emerging Athlete program site is jumping a pretty good size oxer (3'9"- 4' or so) on what appears to be a pretty talented animal. The info on that site states that riders will be accepted at three different height levels (3', 3'6", and 4'.)

It will be interesting to see how this evolves.

[ponymom64]

Is this only a west coast program?

[CallMeGrace]

No, look: http://www.ushja.org/eap/program_summary.shtml

[ponymom64]

Great - thanks!

[Nadonyalife]

Khob--Here's my question: who is going to be giving the clinics/doing the evaluating ??? Dare I HOPE the various zone clinics will be staffed by members of the Emerging Athletes Committee?

[2016 RoyalCrown KTug]

The locations and applications are supposed to be posted this month on the USHJA site.

Cant seem to find anything :confused:

[BlueBobRadar]

Instead it sound to me that it is geared to young riders that have competed in the equitation classes - locally or regionally (perhaps even at some A shows) in the 3' medals and then- if they had the horse at the big eq and USET level or alternatively in the jumpers at similar heights.


I hope this is true!:yes: I can't wait for more information!

[Nikki^]

Well, I was extremely excited about this program until I saw the age limit: 21!!!

This seems to be to be extremely young. Most people who are 21 aren't even out of college yet. This cuts off a TON of talented riders who are REALLY ready to take the next step who might be in their mid 20s due to jobs as working students, assistant trainers, barn managers, and other real world experience jobs, before they start out to make a name for themselves. I would like to see the age limit considerably increased. It seems like this program is more for junior riders, and let's be honest, how many junior riders have the amount of barn management, health care, nutrition, and fine tuned riding needed to step up to a Nations Cup setting? I thought by Emerging Atheletes they meant people between the ages of 20 and and late 20s, maybe even 30. Those riders really are ready and waiting to be discovered, and have worked many years behind the scenes to have that chance.

I agree with you 100%. How about they take away the age limit.

[WhisperingSunrise]

bump! I am keeping a close eye on this thread for more info.

[Serah]

I'm in the "I can't believe the cutoff is 21" gang.... seriously TWENTY ONE?!

[Easton]

The emerging athletes program sounds like a wonderful start for the USHJA to find/discover talent. I think it is the start of a new dawn in the equestrian world. It looks like they are thinking about this truly as a "sport" rather than a "hobby" in order to "develop" talented riders.

If you look at other sports, they all have programs like these in place. In fact they are years ahead of the equestrian world. Here are just a FEW examples.....USS Swimming and USA diving have had "development camps" and programs (Colorado Springs) since the 70's. A lot of the boys and girls that attended these camps became our Olympic swimmers. Rowdy Gaines, and Michael Phelps both attended these. USTA (Tennis) has a program in Boca Raton where talented players "live" and go to school and practice, all with becoming the best tennis player and team possible. USA Hockey has a "developing program" with a U17 and a U18 (Under 17, and Under 18) team. www.usahockey.com to see more information about this program. These are boys selected throughout the country that form a team and live in Ann Arbor Michigan. They travel throughout the world, competing and representing the United States. USA Hockey also has yearly (every summer) age group development camps for both boys and girls (Lake Placid) starting at age 14. Other sports have programs set up (gymnastics, skiing, luging...etc.).

MOST of these programs do not include people that are beyond 21. The reason being is because these people are considered "past their prime." I think the EAP needed to put a limit on the age to get started. The equestrian world for the over 21 yr olds does have the Developing Riders tour that goes to Europe.

It is my hope that they continue with this and expand the program and bring it beyond what they have outlined. Maybe make (select) a team, with a coach, and work with the selected for a year. Yes, this would need to be funded. All these other sports are doing it. (paid coaches, rented facilities, etc....) Why not the equestrian world? This is how you bring along athletes.

[khobstetter]

Great post Easton..

The main difference between equestrian and the other sports is that there are TWO athletes and one weighs about 1500 pounds. The logistics and money needed to do camps like the others is really really costly..ie shipping, board etc.

Does not mean that can't be looked at and TRY to figure out something. Maybe a regional type thing so it makes it more affordable.

With the costs of something like that it takes it out of the grassroots and only to the top ones. That is what USHJA is trying to avoid with this program.

Its really a catch 22, but at least the EAP program is a start!

["A"HunterGal]

MOST of these programs do not include people that are beyond 21. The reason being is because these people are considered "past their prime." I think the EAP needed to put a limit on the age to get started. The equestrian world for the over 21 yr olds does have the Developing Riders tour that goes to Europe.



But the Developing Riders program is for people who have the money, the means, and who have already been discovered. It's not truly for people who just need exposure or a chance. It's more for the type of person who is ON the committee for the Emerging Atheletes.

I guess I'm just perpetually frustrated at the glass ceiling in this sport for the professional who has worked FOR tons of top top people in various riding/management roles, but can NOT get the chance or exposure to BECOME a top person. There are so many of us out there who fit into this category who are also perpetually frustrated...you just don't know our names because we never get recognition! Finally it seems like a program to allow this to happen, but nope! It's really just another opp. for juniors, not for emerging pros. Once again, we've missed the boat. ::sigh::

[Easton]

Great post Easton..

The main difference between equestrian and the other sports is that there are TWO athletes and one weighs about 1500 pounds. The logistics and money needed to do camps like the others is really really costly..ie shipping, board etc.

Does not mean that can't be looked at and TRY to figure out something. Maybe a regional type thing so it makes it more affordable.

With the costs of something like that it takes it out of the grassroots and only to the top ones. That is what USHJA is trying to avoid with this program.

Its really a catch 22, but at least the EAP program is a start!


Yes, funding is a very important aspect of this equation. And, I do understand that there are "TWO" athletes. Somehow these other associations come up with the money to do these programs. Fees for the programs, fees in the memberships, fundraisers, etc...But it has to become a "dedicated" fee to the program in order to sustain it. Our world has so many associations that it's hard to figure out "where" it should come from (USEF, USET, or USHJA). I applaud USHJA for creating the EAP. I think it's a wonderful start. And, hopefully expanding the program will be discussed in the future.

Do you want the "top ones" in the EAP? Correct me if I'm wrong, but your post gives the inference that the "top ones" are those with money. Yes, some of the boys in the USA hockey dev program are from money but others aren't. I would venture to say that the "top ones" (riders with money) would probably not "enter" this program as they would want to continue as they are. I also think of my daughter as a "top one" ... however, not one with the money for 20+ shows, travel, year end finals etc.. although she is fortunate, and we make sacrifices.

I know that this is a very large undertaking by VERY DEDICATED people that are bringing the EAP to fruition. It is NO small task. However, it is essential, and long overdue, to truly develop our riders.... our athletes.

[Easton]

But the Developing Riders program is for people who have the money, the means, and who have already been discovered. It's not truly for people who just need exposure or a chance. It's more for the type of person who is ON the committee for the Emerging Atheletes.

I guess I'm just perpetually frustrated at the glass ceiling in this sport for the professional who has worked FOR tons of top top people in various riding/management roles, but can NOT get the chance or exposure to BECOME a top person. There are so many of us out there who fit into this category who are also perpetually frustrated...you just don't know our names because we never get recognition! Finally it seems like a program to allow this to happen, but nope! It's really just another opp. for juniors, not for emerging pros. Once again, we've missed the boat. ::sigh::


Believe me, I understand your frustration. And yes, it's a shame that a program wasn't in place when you were growing up as a junior. However, there are other programs that I recommend to you as a young professional...."the mentoring program" I would think would be a very helpful program. Mentoring from, training, riding, developing sponsorships etc....I would want my "junior" to be able to participate in this as much as possible.

Generally I think this "horse world" and the people in it are some of the most generous around. YOU HAVE TO ASK though. Good luck to you

[justathought]

For all the questions and confusion and frustration noted here (mine included), its important to take a minute and express thanks and appreciation for this attempt by the USHJA and many many caring professionals for trying to craft a program that reaches out beyond the highest levels of the sport.

So... even before this runs - thanks to all who participated in the creation and definition of this program. Its an exciting concept that has huge potential.

[khobstetter]

Yes, funding is a very important aspect of this equation. And, I do understand that there are "TWO" athletes. Somehow these other associations come up with the money to do these programs. Fees for the programs, fees in the memberships, fundraisers, etc...But it has to become a "dedicated" fee to the program in order to sustain it. Our world has so many associations that it's hard to figure out "where" it should come from (USEF, USET, or USHJA). I applaud USHJA for creating the EAP. I think it's a wonderful start. And, hopefully expanding the program will be discussed in the future.

Do you want the "top ones" in the EAP? Correct me if I'm wrong, but your post gives the inference that the "top ones" are those with money. Yes, some of the boys in the USA hockey dev program are from money but others aren't. I would venture to say that the "top ones" (riders with money) would probably not "enter" this program as they would want to continue as they are. I also think of my daughter as a "top one" ... however, not one with the money for 20+ shows, travel, year end finals etc.. although she is fortunate, and we make sacrifices.

I know that this is a very large undertaking by VERY DEDICATED people that are bringing the EAP to fruition. It is NO small task. However, it is essential, and long overdue, to truly develop our riders.... our athletes.
I don't think my post gives the inference that the "top ones" are the ones the EAP program is for.

My reply was to your post about doing a year long thing ..... "It is my hope that they continue with this and expand the program and bring it beyond what they have outlined. Maybe make (select) a team, with a coach, and work with the selected for a year. Yes, this would need to be funded. All these other sports are doing it. (paid coaches, rented facilities, etc....) Why not the equestrian world? This is how you bring along athletes. "

That is what takes money and that much money is usually at the top. That is all I was saying, I don't know many grassroots kids who have the horses or the funding to do something like that.....but who knows.

Sorry if I gave any other impression. I LOVE tis program and all of us are doing it for NO money because we believe in it.

[khobstetter]

But the Developing Riders program is for people who have the money, the means, and who have already been discovered. It's not truly for people who just need exposure or a chance. It's more for the type of person who is ON the committee for the Emerging Atheletes.

I guess I'm just perpetually frustrated at the glass ceiling in this sport for the professional who has worked FOR tons of top top people in various riding/management roles, but can NOT get the chance or exposure to BECOME a top person. There are so many of us out there who fit into this category who are also perpetually frustrated...you just don't know our names because we never get recognition! Finally it seems like a program to allow this to happen, but nope! It's really just another opp. for juniors, not for emerging pros. Once again, we've missed the boat. ::sigh::

Hunter girl.....I understand your frustration, I was one of those for many many decades and what you are talking about could have helped me a LOT....and I would have loved it.

If you have an idea along those lines, put it on paper and send it to me ....who knows, it could be the next program. Don't give up hope!!!!

[IzzyBean]

BUMP! :)
I want more info :D!!!!!!!

[juststartingout]

Anyone know when they will post the sessions and the applications - will it be on their website?

[CallMeGrace]

The locations and applications are supposed to be posted this month on the USHJA site.

http://www.ushja.org/eap/program_summary.shtml

[hideyourheart03]

I just called the USHJA office for more information and was told to email the program director, Melanie Fransen. Her email is mfransen@ushja.org for anyone interested. I'm planning on shooting her an email later, so I will let the BB know when I hear back from her.

[poltroon]

I want to say thanks to everyone who has stuck their neck out to try to get this going. I'm sure that there will be lots of learning going on to see who applies, who should have applied, what can be done for riders at each level, etc - but the only way to answer the question is to go out on the ground and give it a shot.

At 3' and 3'6", you should be overwhelmed with applicants, even with the 21 age limit.

I look forward to seeing how this develops.

[IzzyBean]

Bump!:cool:

[MIKES MCS]

If the USHJA truly wanted to search for RAW talent and reach past the Economically blessed they would perhaps get with the IHSA at Findley / Albion ( any collage with an equestrian program and horses that can jump) and HOLD OPEN AUDITIONS Don't you think some of these collages would jump ( no pun intended) at the chance to showcase their schools participating in this kind of talent search! Seriously, want to see some emerging talent for real .. draw horses over a 3 day period give the riders numbers , NO names NO coaches, and NO grooms, judge them not just on their riding but their ability to manage their horses and equipment.. Many of these schools have top notch horses and equipment. So cut the pretense , what’s being offered is not a search for raw talent it’s a search for untapped monetary resources . Strings of fancy junior ridden jumpers that have been imported by mommy and daddy for the children who ride for big name barns.. It’s a duplicate of the so called HORSEMANSHIP clinic offered at WEF where only the TOP junior BNR are invited to participate, of course anyone can watch ! If that sounds like sour grapes , it's not , it's a call to be honest with what is being promoted. It takes MONEY to excel at this sport and hopefully among the 100's with money who apply, their might be 2 with actual talent. This program will bring out the money in mass hopefully, it will find those 1 or 2 driven kids who can get past the handicap of their family wealth and become real horseman(woman). JMHO

[poltroon]

If the USHJA truly wanted to search for RAW talent and reach past the Economically blessed they would perhaps get with the IHSA at Findley / Albion ( any collage with an equestrian program and horses that can jump) and HOLD OPEN AUDITIONS Don't you think some of these collages would jump ( no pun intended) at the chance to showcase their schools participating in this kind of talent search! Seriously, want to see some emerging talent for real .. draw horses over a 3 day period give the riders numbers , NO names NO coaches, and NO grooms, judge them not just on their riding but their ability to manage their horses and equipment.. Many of these schools have top notch horses and equipment. So cut the pretense , what’s being offered is not a search for raw talent it’s a search for untapped monetary resources . Strings of fancy junior ridden jumpers that have been imported by mommy and daddy for the children who ride for big name barns.. It’s a duplicate of the so called HORSEMANSHIP clinic offered at WEF where only the TOP junior BNR are invited to participate, of course anyone can watch ! If that sounds like sour grapes , it's not , it's a call to be honest with what is being promoted. It takes MONEY to excel at this sport and hopefully among the 100's with money who apply, their might be 2 with actual talent. This program will bring out the money in mass hopefully, it will find those 1 or 2 driven kids who can get past the handicap of their family wealth and become real horseman(woman). JMHO

Oooh, that's a cool idea. I quite like it.

[juststartingout]

If the USHJA truly wanted to search for RAW talent and reach past the Economically blessed they would perhaps get with the IHSA at Findley / Albion ( any collage with an equestrian program and horses that can jump) and HOLD OPEN AUDITIONS Don't you think some of these collages would jump ( no pun intended) at the chance to showcase their schools participating in this kind of talent search! Seriously, want to see some emerging talent for real .. draw horses over a 3 day period give the riders numbers , NO names NO coaches, and NO grooms, judge them not just on their riding but their ability to manage their horses and equipment.. Many of these schools have top notch horses and equipment. So cut the pretense , what’s being offered is not a search for raw talent it’s a search for untapped monetary resources . Strings of fancy junior ridden jumpers that have been imported by mommy and daddy for the children who ride for big name barns.. It’s a duplicate of the so called HORSEMANSHIP clinic offered at WEF where only the TOP junior BNR are invited to participate, of course anyone can watch ! If that sounds like sour grapes , it's not , it's a call to be honest with what is being promoted. It takes MONEY to excel at this sport and hopefully among the 100's with money who apply, their might be 2 with actual talent. This program will bring out the money in mass hopefully, it will find those 1 or 2 driven kids who can get past the handicap of their family wealth and become real horseman(woman). JMHO

Well... you have certainly expressed the fears of many. Still, it seems pretty cynical to be so negative before any of the events have even happened.

Instead, how about waiting to see wht happens. By the way, everyone acknowledges that money helps riders succeed - it does not make them sucessful - but money gets a rider over the first hurdle, a horse with enough talent to do the job, access to top quality training, and the ability to show enough to get noticed.

Sure - there will be riders in this program who have resources but who have not made it to the top levels. Hopefully, there will also be riders who have talent but lack resources who make connections with people who can help.

BTW I have no problem with a clinic format that asks riders to trade horses or ride horses they do not know - many of the "unnoitced" riders I am aware of do just fine with this. Also, they care for their own horses and have plenty of horsemanship skills. Hopefully this format will reveal those riders as well as those with resources.

[khobstetter]

Thanks you chiming in here Mike, HOWEVER.....
1. I think your idea is another terrific one and would be welled received by the Affiliates Committee which is searching for program to do. Creating a college program would be WIDLEY encouraged!!!! Why don't you write up that idea and present it to the USHJA Affiliates AND IHSA for consideration. And actually it sounds like an Intercolligiate program too.

One thing I have found out is that when I have a good idea...IT IS UP TO ME TO CONTINUE WITH IT, thats why I am at least involved. I invite you to do so aLso WITH YOUR IDEA!!!

My father had a GREAT saying that he lived by and taught to all us kids (we were farm/ranch kids where things go wrong with livestock all the time)....."If you are smart enough to see a problem, YOU are smart enough to know a solution and be a part of the solution." BUT he never made time for us to critize without being willing to do the footwork too. Maybe not a great way to pass on his character, BUT it remains with me to this day.

2. PLEASE don't sell this program out before it gets started!

It is ONLY MHO but I can tell you the thought of alot of the conversations....and I believe the people named here will agree.....this program is looking for the Candice Schloms, the Joie Gatlins and so many others like them when they were younger. I remember Candice when I taught her, an appaloosa cow horse turned jumper they brought to the shows with a pickup truck (they had nothing else)....I remember Joie when she and her mother slept in the back of their truck in order to go show........both Joie and Marie braiding to afford to compete.

Research the history of these two people and more....you should get an idea of what this program is looking for. OF COURSE there will be the others, but don't sell it short. If it helps riders with dreams...it has done its job!!!

Also...not looking to draw pistols here (get it-western upbringing :-)!) Just wanted to respond.

[MIKES MCS]

Wait and See??? No Need, this program caters to and is a reflection of the existing system.. There is nothing revolutionary here. Bring your made Horses, your wallet and your BNT's to the greatest Equine Talent search the USEF has ever assembled, We can watch the next Georgina Bloombergs in the making riding their fabulous imported Dutch/ French/ German AND of course their Swedish Warmblood.. If you have 100 riders coming in each riding 1 OTTB jumping around at 3'6" and 10 riders coming in with 6 WB's each jumping around at 3'6" Where do you think the 8 riders are going to be chosen from. So again lets get real.. If you don't have the money to pay you aren't going to play in this league, I am not being cynical, I am being honest .. The USHJA is tapping into the same pool , I agree unless there was some kind of funded Emerging riders program you are not going to change anything or be able to widen the net , A few months ago , I proposed a school that could be funded by the tuition of the wealthy with enough extra revenue to offer a few scholarships to the financially challenged but extremely talented.. That school could be an extension of a collage program with classes taught by a group of rotating volunteers, the best in the US, Self funded. That’s how you cast your net wider...

[LexInVA]

That is an interesting idea Mike. I don't see it happening as a college-type deal with all the logistics, expenses, and politics involved in the educational system we have here but I can easily see it as a small alternative high-school or prep school type program away from the city in a summer camp-like atmosphere.

[IzzyBean]

when are the dates going to be up?!:lol:

[BlueBobRadar]

when are the dates going to be up?!
I agree!:) I can't wait! Although I'm sure this must be extremely hard to plan and set up so I can understand the wait.

[showmom07]

But the Developing Riders program is for people who have the money, the means, and who have already been discovered. It's not truly for people who just need exposure or a chance. It's more for the type of person who is ON the committee for the Emerging Atheletes.

I guess I'm just perpetually frustrated at the glass ceiling in this sport for the professional who has worked FOR tons of top top people in various riding/management roles, but can NOT get the chance or exposure to BECOME a top person. There are so many of us out there who fit into this category who are also perpetually frustrated...you just don't know our names because we never get recognition! Finally it seems like a program to allow this to happen, but nope! It's really just another opp. for juniors, not for emerging pros. Once again, we've missed the boat. ::sigh::

Yes. Developing Riders is for the very few and only those who were already immensely successful in Jr. Careers with top notch trainers and top notch horses.

The five riders who will compete on this year’s [2008] Show Jumping Developing/Young Rider Tour include: Michael Morrissey of Bradenton, FL, on Crelido; James Benedetto of Kings Park, NY, on Kannan’s GiGi Z; Tracy Magness of Baltimore, MD, on Tarco Van Ter Moude; and Alexa Lowe of Upperville, VA, on Nadyleen; and alternate Jeanne Hobbs of Pinehurst, NC, on Night and Day. Selection of the riders was based on the rider’s ranking on the USEF Computer List as of April 25. The riders on the tour were given a grant to help pay for the horse transportation. The funding will also cover a team veterinarian, chef d’equipe and various expenses associated with competing abroad.

[Palisades]

So Mike, let's say you set up your program - what do you do with all those great kids you end up scouting? "We think you guys are fabulous, let us know when you can afford your own horse and we'll set up some lessons"?

The reality is that if you want to develop as a rider, you have to own or have access to a horse that can match your talent. No USHJA initiative is going to be a silver bullet for the fact that some people can afford to compete and some people can't. I think the point of this program (as someone who hasn't looked into it and has no stake in it) is that anyone who has a horse that can jump around these heights has a chance - even if they can't afford to rack up points at the big shows every weekend. Does that mean that some talented and horse poor riders are left out? Yes. Does it make it more inclusive than the current method of finding talented riders? Potentially.

[showmom07]

If the USHJA truly wanted to search for RAW talent and reach past the Economically blessed they would perhaps get with the IHSA at Findley / Albion ( any collage with an equestrian program and horses that can jump) and HOLD OPEN AUDITIONS


Actually the Europeans have a program for college age kids and up to age 28 (if they were involved in the program when in college). Association Internationale des Etudiants Cavaliers
http://www.aiecworld.com/ About 15 countries participate at each meet. Each rider competes in both dressage and show jumping. Kids ride in regional competitions kind of like NCAA or IHSA (but no WT) and have to qualify for the team. Then ride in "Student Nations Cup" "World University Championships" and other just regular competions between nations all over Europe. It doesn't matter if they have their own horse because they catch ride whatever horse they draw (similar to IHSA or NCAA) but they some VERY NICE horses. They also don't bring their own tack. Also some very nice competition. At the recent World Champions, the rider who won was introduced as "the famous Austrian dressage rider." A country can field more than one team.

The US and Canada also participate. The website for the US team is: www.usastudentriding.com/ As you can see the website is out of date and leadership/organization of this program has kind of fallen by the wayside. They have
let their non-profit lapse so have some legal work to do and no fund-raising is happening.
So the kids have to pay their own way. But it just entails finding a relatively inexpensive ticket to Europe. The kids stay in hostels or at universities, and have a lot of food and
drink provided at the various parties. So it's relatively inexpensive.

My daughter has gone a couple of times and had a blast. The horsey contacts she has made from kids all over the world are priceless.

But it would be good if someone could pick up this ball and really make the US team good again. I think they won in 2005.

[SaddleFitterVA]

21 or under to apply.

For a sport where many people may not have had the resources to even get noticed and serious until well into their 30's, the fact that there is absolutely NO consideration of the over 21 crowd as a potential athlete is bothersome.

It seems that in the USHJA world, if you had to take the self-financing approach to riding, you are forever pegged "client" or expected to fund the "trainers" by being in an "amateur" program.

There is no easy answer, but it would be nice to see something for the over 21 crowd.

[lauriep]

Ya know? I think you should all chill, let them get started with the format they have come up with, and see what they do with it, and how they tweak it as they go on. Why does it need to be everything to everybody the first year? Give it a chance! If they determine the 21 years age cutoff is too restricting, I am confident they will change it. You have to start from somewhere and frankly, I'd be MUCH more interested to see how they are going to come up with the money to finance this! Along with my ideas, I'd be sending donations. This is going to be very expensive with a return that can't be assessed yet.

[showmom07]

I think what I am trying to say is that I would LOVE to see ALL riders who are even interested at all to at least apply for the program. Even if they are not one of the selected ones, it gets the information of the people interested to USHJA and those of us who are at least creating and promoting this type of programs and more.
From that information of interested riders, MAYBE another program can be created...and then another..and then another.


I think this is why some are expressing their opinions about changes they would like to see. I hope the program works well and gets off the ground, even if it is too late for some riders. Perhaps if the program is successful, and with enough input, the age limit will be relaxed (or whatever other ideas for improvement come out). But if it is the same as the Horsemanship Clinic and the Developing Riders and participation is based on accumulated USEF points, then it is doomed as far as "grassroots" riders are concerned and they will NOT support it. USHJA will have proven once again that only the wealthy elite need apply.

[justathought]

Ya know? I think you should all chill, let them get started with the format they have come up with, and see what they do with it, and how they tweak it as they go on. Why does it need to be everything to everybody the first year? Give it a chance! If they determine the 21 years age cutoff is too restricting, I am confident they will change it. You have to start from somewhere and frankly, I'd be MUCH more interested to see how they are going to come up with the money to finance this! Along with my ideas, I'd be sending donations. This is going to be very expensive with a return that can't be assessed yet.

Good points - again compliments to the USHJA on getting this started and to the committee members for all the work they have done. I too would be willing to contribute to this program - particularly if it does reach out to those without the resources to make a name for themselves.

IMHO no program can be everything to everyone - so, any program that reaches out is a step in the right direction.

Not sure that this program will be so expensive... it depends on how they structure it. If - as one hears all the time - there is a real intent on the part of those at the top to give back to the sport, then USHJA should be able to utilize a significant amount of volunteer effort. No one expects that these emerging athletes will be entirely funded by the USHJA - but certainly identifying athletes that could use a helping hand is an objective.

While the ultimate returns cannot be measured now, there are certain measurable returns - accessibility of the sport, image, and expansion of the knowledge base are immediate - and certainly worth this investment.

[grandprixjump]

With most sports, you are out before 40, but with the equestrian disaplines, many successful riders have started later in life, mostly due to monetary needs. Also if they picked older people they have already shown the drive and desire to REMAIN in Equestrian Sports, unlike a teenager, that might be planning on becoming a lawyer or doctor, if that happens, with college time and new profession, they would have little or no time to ride. So that effort on behalf of the USHJA has been wasted on someone who isn't even going to be riding for the next 10 or so years.

[justathought]

Any news on when the dates might be posted....

[Nadonyalife]

Wait and See??? No Need, this program caters to and is a reflection of the existing system.. There is nothing revolutionary here. Bring your made Horses, your wallet and your BNT's to the greatest Equine Talent search the USEF has ever assembled, We can watch the next Georgina Bloombergs in the making riding their fabulous imported Dutch/ French/ German AND of course their Swedish Warmblood.

This may surprise you, MM, but not every kid who shows in Wellington (or Ocala, or Thermal) has their own mint. Some work their a$$es off as working students. Some show up at 5am to feed and do their own daycare before lessons and/or showing. Some braid, body clip, feed, lunge, medicate, hand-walk injured horses, act as veterinary assistants, etc., etc. to help cover expenses. And when they finally get off at 5 or 6, they pop something in the microwave and then do 4 or 5 hours of online school.

Some kids do this because it’s the only way they have to semi-afford their dreams. Some do it because, believe it or not, they actually want to learn to be horsemen. Some even ride “made” WBs they MADE THEMSELVES (what a concept!). And they could ride any OTTB you wanted to give them, because they have, in the past.

Are these kids too “advantaged” or not “grassroots” enough for the EAP?

Reading these posts, I, too, am confused about exactly who this is aimed at. Let’s get concrete here. If this program were held last year, would Kels Bonham or Sophie Benjamin have been eligible? I think of both of them as having come from “grassroots” backgrounds in a certain sense. And if this program is really aimed at those with the horsemanship, knowledge and skills to (realistically) one day hope to represent the US in international competition, I would think they would be EXACTLY the kinds of kids this program would hope to support. But they were/are pretty far from the kind of kid Khob seems to suggest the EAP is aimed at. Both of had ridden with/been working students for BNTs. Both had shown in Wellington. Both were “known” within “A” show circles; in fact, both had probably been judged before by most of the folks listed as program advisors. Neither would likely have shown up with an appaloosa cow horse turned jumper–though they probably could have ridden one if you asked them to.

Thanks to big wins last fall, I would guess that both now have plenty of support and probably don't need a program like the EAP. But what about last year? Would they have been the kinds of kids this program would have supported? If not, what would have been the disqualifying factor? The association with/opportunity to work for BNTs? Having shown at Wellington? Having pros for parents? Appearing in the Bates Eq index? Having access to good horses (even–the horror!--WBs)? Should we just say that those who are at all savvy/ sophisticated about getting somewhere in the sport need not apply? Or maybe we should run every family’s financial statement past Mikes MCS to see if they are too “Economically [sic] blessed” for the EAP?

So, Khob, my question is this: What is this program primarily designed to be/do? Serve as affirmative action for the pony club/OTTB set? Educate, provide mentoring and support kids who REALISTICALLY have a chance of someday “reach[ing] their goals of riding on a team representing the United States” ? Or even–dare I hope–a little of both?

[woodhillsmanhattan]

Does anyone know when the sessions will take place? or is that announced along with the locations and application at the end of January?

[BlueBobRadar]

Like many previous posters, I'm still anxious for more information! Hopefully soon! Aren't there only like 9 days left in January?!

[khobstetter]

The information is up on the USHJA website...I'm listing the dates as they are now known....

APRIL
April 4-5, 2009 Zone 3 Fox Chase Farm Middleburg, VA
Application Deadline: February 23, 2009
April 10-11, 2009 Zone 1 Westbrook Hunt Club Westbrook, CT
Application Deadline: February 23, 2009
MAY
May 9-10, 2009 Zone 10 Hansen Dam Lake View Terrace, CA
Application Deadline: March 23, 2009
May 16-17, 2009 Zone 10 Golden State Horse Show Sacramento, CA
Application Deadline: March 23, 2009
JUNE
June 8-9, 2009 Zone 5 Lamplight Equestrian Center Wayne, IL
Application Deadline: April 23, 2009
June 27-28, 2009 Zone 2 Buffalo Therapeutic Riding Buffalo, NY
Application Deadline: April 23, 2009
June 28-29, 2009 Zone 8 Colorado Horse Park Parker, CO
Application Deadline: April 23, 2009
JULY
July 6-7, 2009 Zone 4 Brownland Farm Franklin, TN
Application Deadline: May 22, 2009
July 20-21, 2009 Zone 9 Oregon High Classic H.S Bend, OR
Application Deadline: May 22, 2009
**Training Session Sites for Zones 6 and 7: TBA

[hideyourheart03]

Thanks for posting that. I was all ready to start the app... except it's only referenced on there and not linked anywhere?!?! arghhhh.

[khobstetter]

I don't know how to do links on here....go to USHJA.org and pull one up that way. I am not that computer wise yet !! :-)

[hideyourheart03]

Oops! I found it! Thanks!

[2016 RoyalCrown KTug]

Haven't had time to read through the entire thread, so maybe someone already mentioned this - but being a H/J rider and an event rider, I agree that 21 or under to apply does seem young, as someone pointed out that many dont reach their prime in this sport until they are in their 30s/40s.

In eventing their is the Developing Riders List, which helps riders to gain the experience of taking part in the team training sessions and to give them a glimpse of what it will be like to be on the team. There are a few riders in their late 20's. . which is even still young, but much better than under 21!

[lauraware]

finally! they're up!!! :D

[maddyh]

Does anyone know whether or not you must attend trials in your Zone? I read what has been posted on the USHJA website, but didn't see anywhere if this is a requirement. I'm in Jersey. It would certainly be easier to get to CT, than Buffalo...

[lgates]

finally! they're up!!! :D

warebear i'm glad you're not back here to compete with me for a spot ;) i think i'll go for 3' :lol:
miss u!!!!

[heartinrye]

Hmmm
I just finished the app but now I'm not sure if I will be accepted.
Yes I HAVE shown on the AA circuit, but I do very little. Will I no longer be considered grassroots? Especially since I'm now in college and don't compete regularly (read: only in the summers).
Well, I guess I'll have to consider sending this in now!

[hideyourheart03]

Heartinrye, I'm confused by your question. I felt like the program was for the kids who could do the occassional big horse shows and have the resume to show that they worked hard, but could never have the Junior Jumper/Star Eq horse to get them noticed. I guess that's just my take on the program.... not totally grassroots, but closer than say Developing Riders.

[heartinrye]

Heartinrye, I'm confused by your question. I felt like the program was for the kids who could do the occassional big horse shows and have the resume to show that they worked hard, but could never have the Junior Jumper/Star Eq horse to get them noticed. I guess that's just my take on the program.... not totally grassroots, but closer than say Developing Riders.

Ok, maybe I will send it in, I guess we'll just have to wait and see!

[Hunter/JumperMom]

Actually the Europeans have a program for college age kids and up to age 28 (if they were involved in the program when in college). Association Internationale des Etudiants Cavaliers
http://www.aiecworld.com/ About 15 countries participate at each meet. Each rider competes in both dressage and show jumping. Kids ride in regional competitions kind of like NCAA or IHSA (but no WT) and have to qualify for the team. Then ride in "Student Nations Cup" "World University Championships" and other just regular competions between nations all over Europe. It doesn't matter if they have their own horse because they catch ride whatever horse they draw (similar to IHSA or NCAA) but they some VERY NICE horses. They also don't bring their own tack. Also some very nice competition. At the recent World Champions, the rider who won was introduced as "the famous Austrian dressage rider." A country can field more than one team.

The US and Canada also participate. The website for the US team is: www.usastudentriding.com/ As you can see the website is out of date and leadership/organization of this program has kind of fallen by the wayside. They have
let their non-profit lapse so have some legal work to do and no fund-raising is happening.
So the kids have to pay their own way. But it just entails finding a relatively inexpensive ticket to Europe. The kids stay in hostels or at universities, and have a lot of food and
drink provided at the various parties. So it's relatively inexpensive.

My daughter has gone a couple of times and had a blast. The horsey contacts she has made from kids all over the world are priceless.

But it would be good if someone could pick up this ball and really make the US team good again. I think they won in 2005.

Is the international program still up and running? the usa link was last updated in 2006 and the international was 2008? Daughter is very interested in this. Looked into eap, but we don't have a horse, lease an eq horse, but he wouldn't be cut out for it.

[hideyourheart03]

Ok, maybe I will send it in, I guess we'll just have to wait and see!

I would say go for it. I'm hoping that that is what the program is aiming for, not totally grassroots, as I too would be "overqualified" even though I haven't gotten to show a ton recently.

[showmom858]

My D is going to start working on her application this weekend. She will be applying for the 3' in Zone 10. She is 14 and has a new horse that she hopes to compete in Children's Hunters and 3' eq this year.

[iridehorses]

Hmmm
I just finished the app but now I'm not sure if I will be accepted.
Yes I HAVE shown on the AA circuit, but I do very little. Will I no longer be considered grassroots? Especially since I'm now in college and don't compete regularly (read: only in the summers).
Well, I guess I'll have to consider sending this in now!

trainer told me kids who went to young riders and do competetive jr jumpers are allowed to sign up, even if theyve done grand prixes. she said theres a chance anyone may get in, so i would say send it in and see!

[neigh.neigh]

I have been doing the 3'6" hunters and equitation and I think the program would be fun to do. Is it really just for jumpers or could I apply and do it with my equitation horse? I emailed the program director but she didn't really answer my question. It seems like there are a couple of people who are working for the EAP and might be able to answer it.

[neigh.neigh]

Does anyone know whether or not you must attend trials in your Zone? I read what has been posted on the USHJA website, but didn't see anywhere if this is a requirement. I'm in Jersey. It would certainly be easier to get to CT, than Buffalo...

No you can apply to which ever zone you want... I emailed the director and asked the same question

[iridehorses]

I have been doing the 3'6" hunters and equitation and I think the program would be fun to do. Is it really just for jumpers or could I apply and do it with my equitation horse? I emailed the program director but she didn't really answer my question. It seems like there are a couple of people who are working for the EAP and might be able to answer it.

i thought it was anyone, but i could be wrong?

[Jumper6252]

I'm sending mine tomorrow fingers crossed :)

[Brydelle Farm]

I am eager to see how it goes. I am hoping to audit Zone 3's program in M'burg, VA, fingers crossed, a student of mine will be selected to be a participant. :)

[iridehorses]

I am eager to see how it goes. I am hoping to audit Zone 3's program in M'burg, VA, fingers crossed, a student of mine will be selected to be a participant. :)

are the lists up for people competing in it?

[Brydelle Farm]

are the lists up for people competing in it?

Apps for Zone 1 and 3 were just due this past Monday, so I don't think word is out yet but their site says that they will notify those chosen at least 30 days before the training session, a max of 8 per height will be chosen and a wait list will be done as well, in case one of the chosen can't make it [or doesn't respond and pay w/in 14 days of getting word of their acceptance], the next on the list will be contacted. So, for Zone 3, that means, w/in the next few days, folks should be notified. My fingers are crossed for you, CC!! :)

[EquiTerra]

I emailed and got back that applicants should hear back by Wednesday, Friday at the latest, via email or letter. Good luck everyone who applied!!

[Brydelle Farm]

I emailed and got back that applicants should hear back by Wednesday, Friday at the latest, via email or letter. Good luck everyone who applied!!

Thanks for the update!! Hugs to J and Robin and the whole gang!

[maddyh]

For those who applied...Did anyone's references get called?

[heartinrye]

For those who applied...Did anyone's references get called?

Haven't heard from either of mine (on this subject) so I'm guessing no.

[Jumper6252]

I also haven't heard anything from my references so I would also guess no.

[iridehorses]

sending mine in soon!
please tell us who gets in as soon as anyone knows. i want to see if any bigger names will be in, or if it will all be people no one knows (which would be pretty cool).

[maddyh]

One more question...does anyone know if they plan on contacting everyone, or only those accepted?

[EquiTerra]

They should be contacting everyone, whether you got in or not.

[luvs2ride]

Where are the deadlines for applying posted? I can't find them anywhere.

[InWhyCee Redux]

Great post Easton..

The main difference between equestrian and the other sports is that there are TWO athletes and one weighs about 1500 pounds. The logistics and money needed to do camps like the others is really really costly..ie shipping, board etc.



Agreed — many parents can afford to buy Junior the same golf club Tiger uses, or the same rackets Venus and Serena have, but very few can buy him or her, say, the equivalent of Beezie Madden's horse. Face it, riding is a wonderful sport, one on which I will probably spend my last dime, but it is not fair and never will be.

[maddyh]

Deadlines are listed on the Training Sessions page.
http://www.ushja.org/eap/trainingsessions.shtml

[maddyh]

Does anyone have any good news?

[heartinrye]

Has anyone heard? I though they were sending emails out today- maybe I didn't get accepted?!

[Ponymom4]

I realized there was a EAP training session in Zone 6 this past weekend? Any feedback from it?

Or any new information on the Level 2 selection process?



www.chadalefarms.com

[Roisin]

I realized there was a EAP training session in Zone 6 this past weekend? Any feedback from it?

I heard from a participant that it was brutal!

[Ponymom4]

Roisin - please explain more if you know.

My daughter did the very first one in April and LOVED it. She felt it was so beneficial and an absolutely wonderful experience!

Have they changed the way they're doing it?



www.chadalefarms.com

[Roisin]

I gather that Melanie was not too happy with what she saw for riding and did not pull any punches. She was very, very critical...and I don't think the kids in this zone (or their parents) were prepared for that. One girl did not return for day 2. Not that Melanie was being unfair or mean, though...it's riding at a whole different level. And not many were really up for that.

Anyhow...that's how I interpreted what I heard from mom of a rider in the 4' section.

[Caroline33]

i got accepted for zone 2 for the 3ft. i couldnt be any more excited! and nervous!:D

[Sparky]

I gather that Melanie was not too happy with what she saw for riding and did not pull any punches. She was very, very critical...and I don't think the kids in this zone (or their parents) were prepared for that. One girl did not return for day 2. Not that Melanie was being unfair or mean, though...it's riding at a whole different level. And not many were really up for that.

Anyhow...that's how I interpreted what I heard from mom of a rider in the 4' section.

Totally agree with your assessment of the Zone 6 clinic. I watched the 3'6" section on Saturday and it was brutal. IMO, Melanie had specific points she wanted to get across, and once she decided that a rider could demonstrate those points, she never let up. For example, one girl, in the early gymnastics, was off center to the first couple of x's. In Melanie's opinion, it was because the rider didn't "care" enough to get to the center, and for the rest of the session, whenever this young rider made a mistake, it was pointed out that she didn't care enough to be a good rider. The kid looked kind of defeated after awhile.
On the other hand, I don't agree with a rider dropping out for day 2. If you ride in a clinic such as this, you should be ready for criticism, learn as much as you can, and take the rest with a grain of salt.

[maddyh]

Sorry to hear Zone 6 didn't seem to go as well as the other clinics.
Wondering if anyone has info on how and when the USHJA will begin to notify riders they have chosen to participate in the second level training sessions. Zones 1,2 and 3 will have been completed by the end of June...will they begin notification immediately following?

[LovesHorses]

The West Coast people were told they will know who has been chosen in August after all the clinics are completed.

[Equsrider]

Has anyone heard yet about zone 4. Deadline was May 22 so it may be too early yet?

[mads.]

I applied for Zone 4 as well -- I figure we'll know by Monday; Tuesday at the latest. :]
ahhhhhh. I don't like the waiting, haha

[chrissymack]

One of our riders applied for zone 4 as well...<waiting>.....

[donkeyman]

spoke with them and understand that the committee meets this Monday June 8 for zone 4 and notices should be by end of week

good luck to all, we have a rider waiting too

[khobstetter]

The committee is converging around Washington International Airport this evening...tomorrow we meet to go over the program and Zones 4 and 9....we take this seriously!!

And we do it at our own cost, USHJA does not pay for our flights...we believe in this program!!!!

[Ponymom4]

Knobstetter - PLEASE convey to the committee how much the athletes and parents REALLY APPRECIATE all your hard work and efforts!!! Without the dedication of you all this program could not become the success we see that it is becoming!

My daughter and family are so thankful for the opportunity to have participated in the Zone 3 clinic in April. It has been so beneficial for her. And several of the Zone 4 applicants are friends of my daughter's that she bragged to about the benefits of the clinic and encouraged to apply.

I know that all the previous applicants are anxiously awaiting news as to whether they make it to the next level or not. We realize the ultimate goal of the program is a pipeline for international competition and our hope is that someone that did the 3' section will have just as much of a chance to move up as someone in the 4'. We personally had to do the 3' since it was our horses' first outing since recovering from an injury and we know of others on borrowed horses for similar reasons. Many of the 3' section would be capable of doing the 4' with either a different horse or in our case, our horse will be ready for that before the next clinic. Just a thought I wanted to convey as the committee continues to develop this wonderful program.

And if you get a chance, tell her at least one participant in the 3' section thinks Melanie Smith Taylor ROCKS!!!

www.chadalefarms.com

[khobstetter]

ponymom...thanks, I'll tell Melanie this morning.

"pipeline for international competition" is not really the goal....it is the individuals that are really an asset to this sport, riders who listen and then TRY!!!! AND hopefully will stay in it. We need talented dedicated individuals in this industry.......some of who need a 'leg up' to be discovered. That is why it is also a talent search of sorts.

MAYBE I'll post something after these meetings but it is confidential till USHJA releases information so I can't tell you much....EXCEPT I LOVE THIS PROGRAM!!!!! Its not perfect yet....but its a START!!!!

[Ponymom4]

Thanks so much Knobstetter for clarifying. It makes us feel even better about the program! It also inspired my daughter to join USET as well because "we need to support our athletes in many ways" (her words).

This program is sooo exciting and encouraging. For ones like my daughter who want to go into this industry full-time, it is such a great opportunity. Financial restraints and locations of where we live are often drawbacks to fulfilling potential. For ones like my family who sacrifice so much to try to give my daughter the background in riding she needs for the career she wants, including having sent her to 2 different international competitions, it is often difficult and many times we have to say no. This is an extremely expensive sport. We are so glad that USHJA is willing to help those along that are deserving. I can't thank all of you involved in the program enough because the education she got at the clinic with Ms. Taylor, as well as our trainer being there to observe, has brought an additional level to her training. My daughter has become even more dedicated and determined than ever.

PLEASE convey our thanks to everyone!!!!

www.chadalefarms.com

[iridehorses]

i am embaressed to say i did not get in ( i feel like everyone on here did). but since you, khobster (sorry if i mutilated your name!), help with picking and choosing the riders, i would just like to know how you choose the participants, because i am sure it is a very hard job and tough decisions to make

[donkeyman]

I think about all the costs these folks put in of their own money and if it was not improper I bet many USHJA members would gladly give air miles and hotel miles to these folks to help get them to these very special meetings. Maybe we can donate these things?

I know we are looking at doing a sponsorship of some sort with Zone 4 group once it is announced.

[donkeyman]

I must say that looking at the prior lists it does appear the committee is really focusing on those students/juniors who do need that leg up to boost their future horse careers. They seem to be following the mission quite nicely!

Everything USHJA does they do it with class.

[khobstetter]

Obviously I cannot discuss the process EXCEPT to say it is really fair and unbiased..and approached VERY seriously. If for some reason, you don't make it in, that is NO reflection on anyone personanlly - or their riding..there are LOTS of applicants and not everyone can get in, there is just not enough spots.

The committee met for HOURS today and alot of things were discussed, it was quite exciting! I am realy excited about the Training II sessions and what is bing planned for next year.

Remember, this is the very first year for a NEW program...AND ONE THAT IS UNIQUE. We are working HARD to work out the kinks and make great strides for the next sessions and next year.

[Ponymom4]

I realized that no one has posted any feedback about the Zone 7 clinic in Texas this past weekend. How did it go? Any observations from participants or observers?



__________________
www.chadalefarms.com

[iridehorses]

there are 3 training sessions, right? and then they pick the top 2?
will this go into next year, or will new sessions be held next year?

[stylemaster]

I audited the zone 7 EAP last weekend. What I saw was alot of people that needed to do more ground work and less jumping. Ms Taylor was firm and expected the riders at this level to be thinkers and doers. She did not take well to the riders that did not correct their mistakes. She did not get angry when the horses or riders made mistakes, but she expected them to correct it. All in all I think she did a great job and really taught this group of young riders some great things.

[Ponymom4]

iridehorses - not quite sure of what you're talking about when you say they pick the top 2 (except that maybe you mean there will be 2 chosen in the end to receive the month of training)? Go to the USHJA website and read about the Emerging Athletes Program. We are so very thankful to have been a part of the Zone 3 Level 1 Training session in Va., which was the very first one. It's my understanding the top scoring riders from the Level 1 will be selected for the Level 2 Regional Training Sessions, but I don't know if it's designated so many slots per zone or the overall numbers.

stylemaster, the emphasis on good flatwork is so important and I am glad to see that Ms. Taylor seems to be keeping all the sessions consistant. The Zone 3 kids really did well and I can only think of a couple of times Ms. Taylor had to say something more than once. Everyone tried really hard and it showed in that their riding improved the second day. But I have noticed that in these last sessions the kids just didn't seem that familiar with good basic flatwork principles (at least from the reviews I read, since I wasn't there I really can't say for sure). There wasn't anything that Ms. Taylor asked of the kids, whether it was 3' or the 4', that my daughter had not had drilled into her. I considered her flatwork expectations to be what any kid at that level should know.


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www.chadalefarms.com

[clancypants]

Did anyone else hear? My daughter got in and is wondering who else is going. We've heard such great things - can't wait!

[Ponymom4]

Congratulations to your daughter clancypants!!! I'm sure as the day goes on we will hear about more acceptances.

She is truly in for a treat!


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www.chadalefarms.com

[donkeyman]

How did she find out? Letter, email, or call?

[clancypants]

We got an email at 8 am this morning that's a congratulatory letter and says a package will arrive in the next few days with the rest of the information including a confirmation letter that you have to send back that you're accepting the offer to participate. They have a waiting list, so if someone ends up not being able to attend, they go to the next kid on the waiting list. My daughter's been reading this thread religiously and watching the youtube videos that people have been kind enough to post from the sessions so far, so she is so excited. A few of her friends heard this morning via email that they didn't get it, so i guess email is the first point of contact.

[donkeyman]

hmmmm we are Zone 4 but given i guess my girl probably did not make it

[Ponymom4]

Also clancypants, have your daughter join the Facebook Group for USHJA Emerging Athletes Program. She can see photos, talk to ones who have done it and also will likely be able to meet ones ahead of time that will also be at Zone 4. My daughter Dale has indicated she would be glad to talk to anyone who makes it if they have questions. She's like a talking billboard for the program. We're hoping some of her Zone 4 friends make it too.

[clancypants]

Thanks all - just wanted to make sure you all realized i was talking about Zone 9. Don't be discouraged in zone 4 if you haven't heard yet! I don't know anything about zone 4. My daughter and some of her friends have heard about zone 9 the one in Bend, OR. Best of luck to everyone and I will have her check out the facebook group for eap. How do you find it?

[mads.]

Well, Zone 4 was notified this afternoon. Unfortunately, I wasn't selected, but congratulations to those who were! [if any happen to read this]

Also, the facebook group is here -- http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/group.php?gid=64784573786

[Jsalem]

Is there a list of the Zone 4 names?

[Ponymom4]

USHJA usually posts the names of selected riders for the training sessions after the time has expired for the ones notified to get their acceptance packets back to USHJA. It's usually just before the clinic. I think they do it that way because if you do not respond in a timely fashion to your acceptance they go to the waiting list for the next name.


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[donkeyman]

How were you notified for Zone 4 that you did not make it. We have not heard yeah or neigh

[chrissymack]

A friend of ours was notified she got in. Do they contact you if you do not?

[mads.]

chrissymack -- yes, they will contact you if you don't get in.

It seems like their first point of contact is email, so definitely keep checking that if you haven't heard yet!

[RouletteJumpersInc]

I have a horse that needs to catch a ride with someone from the clinic back to Ocala, literally 10 minutes off I-75. If anyone has extra space and is passing through please PM me. Thanks!

[Ponymom4]

Noticed that Zone 8 will be having their Level 1 training June 22-23. Best of luck to all the participants!

Don't forget to post an update and synopsis of the sessions!

Anyone on here planning on going?


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www.chadalefarms.com

[chrissymack]

Yay, our student did get into the Zone 4 session...they recently moved, so they did not get the forwarded package in the mail until today. :)

[Ponymom4]

BUMPING UP hoping there may be some feedback from anyone who attended the Zone 8 session in Colorado on Monday and Tues. of this week.


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www.chadalefarms.com

[BlueBobRadar]

I'm hoping for Zone 8 feedback too! I'm heading up to Buffalo for the 3' section next week and am interested in how the most recent session went.

[Caroline33]

me too. i want some info lol

[Ponymom4]

BUMP

No one from COTH attended the Zone 8 Clinic?

Oh well, guess we will have to depend on all our Zone 2 people to give us an update next week.


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[Caroline33]

i know for sure me and steph will keep you guys updated on the zone 2 session haha

[iridehorses]

so...zone 2-how was it!?

[playinforkeeps8]

Didn't go to this sessio, I went to the Viriginia one. However, I heard Melanie was a little upset/annoyed with some stuff? Could someone who attended verify?

[shmon]

A few girls from my barn went to the zone 8 clinic; I wanted to watch but had to work. They're all still down at HP for the next few weeks but I'll ask them about it when I see them again!

[zedcadjna]

I am waiting for more dates, filling out an application with my student.. I think this program is a great way to get riders noticed with top trainers.. I have a talented Big Eq/ jumper rider who would benefit from this program a great deal, as I'm sure a lot of trainers do.. I'm glad to see that it is inexpensive, and the riders have to actually take care of their own horses for the wknd.. A lot of riders don't know what to do without a groom these days, and I am happy that all my riders know their horses/ponies and can take care of them... Yes we have help at shows, but we do our own stuff at home...I know a trainer who has their client there in the 3'ft this wknd in Buffalo, and we know another rider as well doing the 4'ft... I wish all the riders the best of luck!!! I actually just watched a video on you tube of the eap from yesterday, looks like it would be a great learning experience for all riders...

[maddyh]

where on youtube is the video from the Zone 2 session?

[Ponymom4]

maddyh - I just found it and watched it. VERY well done little video, love the music. The rider seems very confident and the horse is cute. I don't have the link but I did a search on u tube for EAP Zone 2 and it turned up. The exercises and course appeared consistent with what was done in Va.

Would love to hear more comments on how the session went. The video is set to music so you do not have Ms. Taylor's comments.

Also, the dates and locations for most of the Level II training is now up on the website. I think they are doing one more session than originally planned. Seems logical to have 2 zones for each location.

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www.chadalefarms.com

[Whisper]

Creating a college program would be WIDLEY encouraged!!!! Why don't you write up that idea and present it to the USHJA Affiliates AND IHSA for consideration. And actually it sounds like an Intercolligiate program too.
I agree, it sounds like a great idea, and the infrastructure for it is mostly already in place. :D

I also do vaulting, and the USEF High Performance Camps *do* provide horses, and don't require a lot of money. You need to be competing successfully at a certain level, and meet very stringent physical requirements, though.
- must be able to jog/run 3 miles
- must be able to hold a handstand for 30 seconds
- must be able to hold plank position (push up position, but on elbows) for 90 seconds without sagging
- must be able to balance in a single leg stand while standing on the ball of the foot for one minute on each leg
- must be able to stand on one leg while holding the other out at a 90 degree angle for 30 seconds
- must be able to complete 30 full push ups without stopping
- must be able to hold squat position with thighs parallel to the floor for 1 minute

[BlueBobRadar]

I went to the Zone 2 session in Buffalo, but my post was so long I started a whole new thread about it.

http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=212294

[Ponymom4]

Looking for info on how the Zone 4 Clinic went on Monday and Tuesday. Hope it went well.

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