No help from Animal Control & officials

[hrsesayver]

First let me say I'm new here, was directed by a friend who thought I may get some good ideas/help.
What do you do when your local animal control and other "officials" will NOT act upon a neglect case? These people have been reported off and on for 2-3 years now. The THIRD horse has recently DIED of starvation on one of their properties (and body left for over a week) Animal control did all they could yesterday to NOT come out to investigate the body, and has not yet gone to the other property to investigate their other horses (around 18 of them)
This horse, before dying, would have scored a 1 or below on the body scoring system, the vertebrae in the neck were discernable from across the pasture/from the road when they were anywhere near the road.
Problem: the people feed them *a little* -- but obviously not near enough! Some horses on their property are not "that bad" -- scoring 3.5 or 4. Others would easily score 2-3. There is currently 1 round bale of hay in a small lot for 11 horses -- don't know where the other horses are.
The property where the horse just died has had 5-6 horses on it consistently (during the drought, in other words, no grazing benefits) They got 1 round bale for the entire month of Nov, 1 round bale for Dec, and prior to that, no feed/hay since last Feb (2008) They "shuffle" horses back and forth from this property to their main farm property....the ones that come to this property are always very thin. Well, once there were 2 horses that didn't look too bad.
Anyway, reports have been made against them in the past. The only time any action was ever taken was when the horses were out in the road multiple times in a short period -- posing a threat to the driving public, and the sherriff was called out over and over so ultimately they made the head of animal control come out, and basically they told the property owner he must have better fencing and should feed them more so they will stay in. End of story.
NOW, the animal control office has told one complainant that there have NOT been any complaints against these people, and that horses die for "various reasons" and that if someone had reported BEFORE the horse died, or right after, not so long after the horse died, then they may do something, but to her knowledge there was not a case being opened!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They haven't even flippin' been out to check on the OTHER skinny horses!!! The AC officer took today OFF! (after promising to go to the other property and check those horses today!)
Ok, so what to do??????? I don't want to see horse #4 (or more) die at the hands of these people!!
Oh, and I have photos of the dead horse -- but have no clue if they could even be posted. They are gruesome. I'm sure some would not want to see......

[hollyhorse2000]

I'm sure there are others more knowledgeable than I on this subject. But a few thoughts --

Contact some horse rescue organizations near you or the ones nearest you and ask for help.

Send the photos to the director of your humane society, the county administrator, sheriff, and anyone else you can think of with details as you know them, including number of horses, past complaints etc.

If all else fails, send the photos anonymously to your local newspaper with details.

Good luck!

[equitationlane]

Go to the local media. TE is best, but print will work. Just make sure you have documented all of your calls.

[BuddyRoo]

You've got several options.

However, you must stick to facts. Not heresay.

Facts include documenting the calls you PERSONALLY have made and statements you PERSONALLY have heard from AC. If there are others involved who have been calling, they should do the same.

Pictures are facts too. Do not trespass or break the law. But it is perfectly legal to take a picture from the road. Get a camera. Get video.

Then....you can contact your state ag dept, contact local rescues who may have some stroke and if need be, contact your media.

But you really do need to have some evidence. Personally, I would let the crummy AC behavior go for now and just focus on documenting pics of the horses.

In a lot of places though, if there's food, water and shelter present on the property then there's not a lot they can do til the horses are in really bad shape. It takes persistence. Sometimes, education is what is needed and that's been the first step in the situations I've been involved in.

Good luck.

Horses first.

[hrsesayver]

Local rescues have been contacted, but they are limited in that they can not do anything until animal control allows them to. In our case, this county's animal control have resisted all offers of help in the past from the Rescue League....even turned down offers of trained horse cruelty investigators familiar with the body scoring system offering their time to help with any investigations.

Photos are going out to other organizations soon...working on finding the appropriate contacts now.

Talked with a gentleman from the State Dept of Agriculture, Veterinary Division -- his job description does not allow cruelty investigations. Animal Control does that. He said if we are waiting on our county's animal control to do anything that we will be waiting a long time. He said the director here is worthless ( ! ) Imagine that coming from a State Employee! He had talked w/ the owner of the horses and the owner of the property (a father and adult son) about the body having laid there for so long, that was all he could do under his job description. He mentioned to me that they are "A little slow to the punch" and "not very bright, are they?" LOL that is an understatement! And that if we were waiting on them to do better by their horses on their own, that we'd also be waiting a long time!
He said go to the TV news people.

The media may be our only recourse, I'm sad to say.

I have asked others who are calling to document their stuff, I hope they are.
I am a bit worried about retaliation from the owners -- they know me & know where I live and where my horses are -- and I don't want my animals poisoned or shot! (Yes, they are probably THAT stupid!) So I am trying to get others to help in this effort as much as possible, so that it is not all linked directly back to me. Who knows, they may even be reading about themselves on the forums, I don't know!

[Parrotnutz]

If all else fails contact PETA....this is right up their ally. I do not agree with PETA at all......but a radical group seems to get it done...they know how to manipulate the media etc.

[Mersy]

Well, if your afraid of retaliation maybe this best option would be to arrange for a process to aquire donations of hay/feed for the horses and offer it to them. Yes, I know you just want to grit your teeth when enabling irresponsability but if there is nothing else that works what else is there? Be sure to document everything.
Maybe you can use the media for a "Christmas story", then maybe attention will be drawn in a way that is less combative.

[cloudyandcallie]

TV reporters help more than anyone else.

Once the film gets on TV, then the government acts.

[alliekat]

I feel your fustration.
I called animal contol on over 20 horses that were neglected and starved. They didn't want to bother even though they had been call for this owner numerous times in the past. I was fusterated.
There were dead bodies of horses discarded on the property. Two I believe althought it was most remains when I found them. Horse were very under weight. No hay barley any water and what water was there was gross. I tried to get AC out there for several days. I even went and watered the horses with my mom.
After no responce and an attudide like AC didn't care,and that was after I sent pics of the starving horses and dead ones.
I got pissed and called the all the local media that would give me the time of day. I even called some rescue orrganizations. We all banned together and put presure on AC.
Instead of helping us, AC help woman remove her horses from this boarding facility, over night. We had foster homes all lined up for every horse. We had dentist that donated there sevices, blacksmiths too.
We even had a vet go on the New and give his professional option on the body score of this one horse(which was a one BTW)
Long story short the woman was able to move her horses and we never seen them again. There were alot of people who were heart broken and had spent close to two weeks 24=7 trying to help these horses.
In the end I contacted the AC supervisior and sent her the pics directly along with the video from the news(which did a 2nd follow up on how these horses wern't saved from their abbuser)
Ac office was removed from his job.
This was over 2 years.
The media can be your best friend sometimes.
Good luck.
reading your post brought back some very hard memories and I hope your horses end up in a better situation than ours did.

[glitterless]

I wouldn't recommend involving PETA. Who knows what they'd do next? They may think that there's something wrong with the way the OPs animals or neighbouring animals are kept.

Unfortunately most animal welfare agencies are either too eager to get involved and are uneducated about animal husbandry or they sit back and do absolutely nothing. I understand all about underfunding and a lack of time, but I've also witnessed situations like this first hand. In my area, animal control knows very little about horses and livestock and can't even handle the stray cats and dogs in the area.

[equinelaw]

Pictures help. I took pictures to the county counsel meeting. It worked.

[MoJo]

Didn't see the location, what state? Thx.

[snkstacres]

Where are you located? I may be able to direct you.

[Thomas_1]

Get photos and send them to the welfare organisations, the police and the media. If you know the other people well that feel similar to you and who've complained, then get them to do the same.

Make yourself a pain in the butt and make frequent contact.... daily if necessary.

[jetsmom]

Go to your city Atty/JP office and tell them you'd like to file animal neglect/abuse charges on someone. When AC wouldn't follow up/press charges when someone shot my dog (while in fenced in backyard), and admitted it, I had to use the City atty office to press charges.

PS-He pled guilty, received 2 yrs probation and 300.00 fine.

[IceQueen]

Take lots of pic's especially of ones that have died. I took my pic's of what Celeita Kramer had done this summer at Crossed Sabers straight to the police. I had also reported it to PITA supplied them w/ the same pic's but that was a joke & a half. Use the SPCA if possible.

Just to give you an example of how useless they were, I forwarded a email to them straight from Celeita on how bad off her 2 dogs were & they were more concerned about the dogs than the 2 severly injured horses that were being denied a vet.

W/ the help of the sheriffs office & her screw up on sending out an email about threatening to turn 30+ horses loose to fend for themselves ending up in the commisions hands (that was priceless) they were able to get the investigation done.

Where it blew up & went wrong was, the vet that was used to evaluate the horses....she was the same one that helped Celeita get the Lewis Co. rescued ones. It paided off for C because of her being friends w/ the vet & the horses paid for it. Immediately after the investigation she gave away 10 horses to a new local rescue. She didn't learn anything by that & filled the barn back up & then begged for $10,200 for winter grain for this year

I don't think you'll have the same problem so you should be good. March down to the sheriffs office & hand them the pics personally tell them you'd like to file a criminal complaint. Tell them you have already reported it to several organizations & have reported it to the local media & feel that they'ed be more effective. When ppl have to actually SEE those pic's it makes a world of difference. It felt sorry for the ppl that were at the local Walmart when I was printing off those pic's...it was very disturbing for them & ppl that have nothing to do w/ horses were outraged that somebody would allow that to happen to an animal. Pic's say 1000 words. Don't forget to timestamp the pic's & document anything else you see.

Cat,

[Cherry]

What you do next depends on where you are located!

I had a person boarding with me who managed to kill all three of her horses in one year! :eek: After the first one died I tried to get a cruelty officer from the "humane league" (there's a laugh) to come out and investigate. When she didn't respond I tried to get a woman from a local rescue involved and that didn't work. All three horses finally died and nothing was ever done to her. :mad:

I don't understand how some jurisdictions manage to get justice for these poor animals but I have a feeling that most don't.... :mad: If you watch Animal Cops you would think that everyone gets prosecuted to the full extent of the law--but you'd be wrong, wrong, wrong! :cry: :no:

Good luck! ;)

[Woodland]

OP - Some people are uneducated in what it takes to properly provide for a horses nutritional needs. Has anyone tried providing them with information?

Are they broke? Over whelmed? Unwilling or unable?

Unwilling is nearly insurmountable.

The other problems can be addressed! If they are uneducated, help them out with information.

If they are broke or unable to feed properly due to a financial situation help them out! Be the good Samaritan not for them, but for the horses if that be your only reason!

My Husband and I are part of the "Hay Angels". When people are ill or down and out and need a hand up we provide them with feeds they need to get over the hump. Usually they in turn join the "Hay Angels" and help someone else when they are able to. The "Hay Angels" are referred by vets and animal control officers who realize that there are no food pantries for animals. Because there are so many dire situations right now some times a helping hand is all that is needed to help some animals out of a tough situation. And the gratitude from both animal and human is REWARDING!


For me it's far better than waiting for the animals to suffer further or to wait for the "wheels of justice" to FINALLY kick in! So many people prefer vengeance over compassion, and retaliation over education and it does not have to be that way!

Knowing I have helped elderly, ill, financially ruined, overwhelmed, newly divorced, etc people who just can not catch a break get a little respite at minimal cost is so REWARDING! Usually there has been a seemingly insurmountable bump in the road for these normally good horse owners. Extending comapassion only serves it never harms.

If the case is true neglect it is evident. But just taking a moment to talk eye to eye heart to heart will tell you where they are coming from.

Just a little food for thought. When I leave knowing a horses belly is full of my good hay and the owners tears are dried - well it's a feeling you just can't get via prosecution. A good horse person down on his/her luck will appreciate it!

[Beverley]

Well, first, I will say, please ignore suggestions to involve PETA, they are utterly worthless and responsible for the deaths of too many animals themselves. They have nothing to do with the well being of animals, simply trying to achieve a radical agenda involving a petless, meatless society.

Next, I think Woodland makes some excellent points- nothing wrong with first approach as benefit of the doubt and offering help if it's needed. Woodland, btw the Hay Angels concept is very interesting, I wish you would post more info on the subject, organizational aspects, etc.

Now, to get results- is this city or county animal control? I will tell you my local ac is lousy regarding horses, simply because the guy is scared of horses and therefore doesn't want to deal with them. I will suggest to you- go up the chain of command. If city, then mail documentation and photos to the mayor and city council. If county, same information mailed to the appropriate county government officials. If no results, then yes, make noise via the media and/or local humane societies.

[cowgirljenn]

First, if you can tell us what state you are in, someone here might have a connection who can help.

In the meantime, document, document, document. Keep a log of each time you go by the property and what you see. Include the date, the time, number of horses, their conditions and descriptions (be specific), and their body condition. Note whether or not there is visible food or water present. Note whether or not the same horses are there and any changes in their condition. Add to your log, any time you call animal control, who you talk to, what was said. Add photos taken FROM THE ROAD (do not trespass) as often as you can.

Put together a factual statement (facts are what you can verify and know. If you did not witness it, include the name of the witnesses with their permission).

Then approach animal control with your detailed log and ask them once more to get involved. If they fail to do so, go over their head. If animal control works for the sheriff's department, call the sheriff himself. If they work for the police, call the chief of police. If they work for an animal shelter, call the director. Even better, go in for an in person meeting. Face to face is better than over the phone.

If that does not work, contact the county attorney, city attorney, or district attorney (depending on the location of the horses) and complain to them.

If that does not work, contact your state senator or representative.

You can go higher and higher up the chain.

NOW - my caution: You should only do this with facts you have witnessed or with a group of witnesses willing to step forward. Do not go and act hysterical, and do not go on an unfounded case. If animal control is assaulted by hysterical people with unfounded cases, often they stop responding to ALL cases because they get burnt out and cynical. This method can work (and has worked) for well-founded cases, but it takes time and persistence.

[Obi]

:mad:Just curious but if you call up on a possible neglect case to AC, does a report get filed or does it only happen when they actually go to the site? I am wondering because I called AC on this specific case and they never asked for my name (I offered it each and every time). I also told them I did not want to remain anonymous as I thought to have an actually person with a phone number to call back may get the ball rolling. After the third or forth call to AC, they actually answered the phone "is this about the dead horse again"? :eek:

I am just confused here...a nice gentleman from the Enviromental Department contacted me this morning to let me know that he had been told the horse had been buried yesterday. I have not been out to see if the horse was gone so I said I was glad to know it was finally taken care of. I did ask what would happen if I went out and saw the animal still there and he said the AC would 'have' to do something. and gave me a name and private number to call if that was the case and to call him back.

I guess I am wondering what the rules are to this game that AC seems to play. I have had AC at my house within hours when a hunting dog took up residence at my farm a few years back. I found the owner (by calling multiple vets as the number on the collar was out of service). I refused to give the dog back to the owner due to the condition (skinny was not even close). AC showed up at my door within hours stating that I 'had' to give the dog back or else? WTF? I asked if he noticed the condition of the animal and his response was "I have seen worse". No report, no fine, nothing. :mad: I got told that it was against the law to keep the dog! I did not invite this dog to take up residence at my farm. He showed up one day and stayed for about a week. I tracked the owner down, I tried to do the right thing and BAM, I am the bad guy because I have the common sense not to hand back a starved animal to its owner. I just do not understand:no::no:

[Whoanellie]

First, if you can tell us what state you are in, someone here might have a connection who can help.

In the meantime, document, document, document. Keep a log of each time you go by the property and what you see. Include the date, the time, number of horses, their conditions and descriptions (be specific), and their body condition. Note whether or not there is visible food or water present. Note whether or not the same horses are there and any changes in their condition. Add to your log, any time you call animal control, who you talk to, what was said. Add photos taken FROM THE ROAD (do not trespass) as often as you can.

Put together a factual statement (facts are what you can verify and know. If you did not witness it, include the name of the witnesses with their permission).

Then approach animal control with your detailed log and ask them once more to get involved. If they fail to do so, go over their head. If animal control works for the sheriff's department, call the sheriff himself. If they work for the police, call the chief of police. If they work for an animal shelter, call the director. Even better, go in for an in person meeting. Face to face is better than over the phone.

If that does not work, contact the county attorney, city attorney, or district attorney (depending on the location of the horses) and complain to them.

If that does not work, contact your state senator or representative.

You can go higher and higher up the chain.

NOW - my caution: You should only do this with facts you have witnessed or with a group of witnesses willing to step forward. Do not go and act hysterical, and do not go on an unfounded case. If animal control is assaulted by hysterical people with unfounded cases, often they stop responding to ALL cases because they get burnt out and cynical. This method can work (and has worked) for well-founded cases, but it takes time and persistence.

Wanted to add to Jenn's post:

As said, Documentation is the key......especially if you go to the press or higher authorities.

Each time AC is called note the date & time. Ask for the name of the person you are speaking to and ask for correct spelling of the name. Ask when an investigator will be going out and make a note. Follow up the next day with a call noting date, time, who you spoke to, etc. Ask if a case # has been assigned and if not, why not or when will one be assigned. Continue to document. Once a case # is assigned ask the status of the case. This info may be important when you go to the press, sheriff, news, etc.

During your followup call again ask for the correct spelling of the person's name you are speaking to. Ask them if they have the phone number for (Insert name of Local Paper or News Channels here) as you think the community would want to know about this situation. It has been our experience once you have gotten a name and ask about press/news contact, the ball seems to move forward. You may ask them for the name/number of the Vet they contract with so you can speak to them. Doubtful if they will volunteer this info, but you never know.

Sadly, it takes diligence, continued documentation and determination. Unfortunately, people do get tired of the bureaucracy and give up.

[Blueshadow]

The only thing that worked for me was contacting the County Supervisor's office (who were responsible in my area of so cal for ensuring that AC do their job, basically), first politely asking them to ensure that AC did their job, and increasingly aggressively when that didn't happen, theatening publicity by sending the LA Times photographs.

It took six months to the horses away from their owner - but it was worth it.

[cowgirljenn]

:mad:Just curious but if you call up on a possible neglect case to AC, does a report get filed or does it only happen when they actually go to the site?

I think it may depend on the jurisdiction. Many places I've worked with create a report and case # as soon as they receive a call. Other places aren't as organized. In some counties where I am, there are no specific AC officers. Whatever deputy is on duty when the call is received is the one who goes out - which means some cases are investigated by people who know almost nothing about the animals they're investigating... that adds another layer of difficulty.

[anuphillbattle]

Definitely depends on who you are dealing with. A friend contacted the SPCA about a foundered pony who spent 99% of his time down - even non horse people commented about how often the pony was lying down. First response was 1) trimming is optional - long feet are OK - not a reportable problem! WTF??? So, she sent 'www.safergrass.org and educated the ACO regarding grass founder. Yes, the pony was fat, had a lush pasture and water...but the poor thing couldn't stand up! Second response was that 'founder happens every year'...my response was 'not if you take pony off grass as you need to!'

[catknsn]

TV reporters help more than anyone else.

Once the film gets on TV, then the government acts.

Yes, exactly.

Rescues can't do a thing when the law won't take action. Rescuers have no special powers.

The media is definitely the way to go, particularly when you have pictures and proof.

[msrobin]

Media Media Media!!
It gets things rolling. Take pics anytime you can. The more the better. It is not illegal to stand outside someones property and take photos as long as you are on public property. Like beside the road. There should be a 50ft easement on roads on both sides owned by the govt. Next call your local news, email them too. Contact the US Humane Society by phone, do not wait for email replies. Peta as well. No local authority wants to deal with media, peta or the humane society. They will usually break down and be forced to do something however again you need proof to stand up in court.
Do not give up as it sounds like it is possible that the people killing the horses has someone in the county that is letting them get by with this. I have seen it happen before, it is all in who you know.

Good luck and if I can help you just let me know.

[Rienzi]

I'd forget the local authorities. They can be worse than useless. Try the state Ag. Dept. or the state police. The state police should have set statutes to go by to investigate claims of abuse or neglect. You may be able to find them on the web.
If you can find a horse rescue group I think they can work in conjunction with the state police. Try you state's horse council, if you have one. They should be of some assistance.
equineprotectionnetwork.com may be helpful to you.

Best of luck to you... i would try all these other avenues before I would go to PETA or the Humane Society of the United States. Those groups have too many of their own agendas.

Document, be persistant, get the names and ranks of everyone you deal with, be sure complaints are filed, and ask people "What do YOU intend to do about this and WHEN do you intend to do it." keep track of all the answers you get. if nothing's working, try the local media.

[horsecrazy]

Agree that we need to know a state. If you tell me where the horses are located (just the state will suffice), I can put you in touch with someone who will light a fire under the ACO's behind.

You can PM me if you prefer.