Schooling the hot, sensitive horse

[Small Change]

I've got a part TB hunter who is very hot, and very sensitive. Currently, we do well on our hacks, and are respectable over fences at a 3'0" height. I have done all the schooling with him, so there's no one to blame for his issues but myself. I decided that this is the winter I would try to fill in the holes in his schooling, as although he's competent with what he does now, I know there's some issues that I need to rectify if we want to move up.

The biggest problem I am having right now is that he is really tough for me to school more intensively. He gets quick and anticipates what I'm going to ask next, then goes from 0 - 60 with my aids. For example, he'll ignore a leg aid to move on, then squirt forward if I continue to ask. He also goes from inverted to dropping behind the bit, then back again, (lather, rinse, repeat) if I ask him to really move forward off his hind end.

I do think I've created a lot of these problems. To be perfectly honest, I think I've spoiled him a little with being too easy on him. For example, I haven't insisted on him being adjustable within his canter, and instead settled for a soft and relaxed canter without adjustability. He's got a funny mouth too, so again I settled, and never really asked him to tolerate much contact.

I like a hotter horse, and ride this type almost exclusively (I don't get along well with a horse that needs to be pushed or held together constantly). I tend to ride my horses very softly, but now that I'd like to progress with this guy, it seems pretty obvious that I've also been letting them get away with things at the same time. I'm pretty sure that this horse just needs to be ridden through his issues, but wondered if anyone has any specific things that seem to help a hot, sensitive horse through more exercises that are potentially frazzling for them.

Currently, I am doing my best to just ride quietly through him being difficult, and simply keep asking for what I want, then soften and reward when he gets it. I try not to make a big deal of him getting flustered or anticipating, but instead work through the "moment" until he settles again. Is this the right track, or should I be tougher in my corrections?

Also, this horse has a bit of a funny mouth. I ride him normally in either a soft rubber mullen mouth snaffle or a Myler D with a curved mouthpiece and centre roller (which is essentially a mullen mouth as well). In the rubber snaffle, he will get hot and lean or not respond to half halts. In the D, he quite often over reacts or acts like I've popped him in the mouth. He is apt to get behind the bit in either bit if he's hot, then trot with a short, quick stride and not want to move back out. I am thinking that keeping him in the rubber snaffle and working on him accepting contact would be the best route, but then had a very respectable coach suggest putting the horse in more bit instead (with the idea being that I would use less hand and therefore fuss with his mouth less, keeping him happier).

This horse is very easy to ride if you stick to the basics, and stay soft and quiet. These issues are only coming up now that I am trying to move him along a bit, and work on ridability and adjustability. His saddle fits well, his teeth are in good shape, and I don't think he's sore anywhere.

Any suggestions for working through issues with hot, sensitive horses would be greatly appreciated, as would any advice tailored to this guy specifically.

[eponacelt]

You might want to consider some lessons with a dressage trainer. They can be very good about identifying some of your position habits that may be encouraging things. My old jumper trainer insisted that we all lesson with a dressage trainer on a monthly basis. It did wonders for things I never even knew were wrong!

[Dixon]

Also consider his diet. Is he souped up on alfalfa and other hot calories? You may need to limit him to grass hay and cut out any pellets, grains or supplements that are making him so hot.

As for your schooling approach, you don't need to adjust your "corrections" as much as your demands.

For example, he'll ignore a leg aid to move on, then squirt forward if I continue to ask. . . . To be perfectly honest, I think I've spoiled him a little with being too easy on him. . . . I tend to ride my horses very softly, but now that I'd like to progress with this guy, it seems pretty obvious that I've also been letting them get away with things at the same time. . . . I try not to make a big deal of him getting flustered or anticipating, but instead work through the "moment" until he settles again. Is this the right track, or should I be tougher in my corrections?


It sounds like you allow him to ignore your aids, in the name or "riding softly." That lets him respond in his own time, if ever, which really isn't obedience. When you squeeze with your leg, he needs to go forward NOW, not several strides later when he feels like it. That means that when you squeeze with your leg and he doesn't instantly go forward, you must then add spur, and if he still ignores you, add a whack with the crop or dressage whip behind your leg. All this should be in the space of SECONDS, not minutes. And yes, his response SHOULD be to go 0 to 60 when you add your leg, and you should not then grab him in the mouth as he shoots forward. But don't let him wait several strides before he squirts forward, because you may have already reinforced in his brain that he should take his time in responding. And if you're "correcting" his squirts forward by asking him to slow back down, then you're reinforcing his notion that he shouldn't really go forward when you ask him to. So focus more on his responses than on your "corrections." Don't "correct" him for going forward when you ask. But make sure he does go forward when you ask.

[Small Change]

eponacelt - Not a bad idea. I've got a good friend who does a lot of dressage, but also has a hunter background. I should really see what she thinks.

Dixon - He's already on a grass hay, and eats Buckeye Cadence, which, although it is for horse in work, is not supposed to make them hot(ter). I like your ideas about correcting him too. I really do try not to catch his mouth or get after him for the scooting, and just sit quietly. I think you're absolutely correct when you say that I most likely don't insist on enough obedience from this horse - looking back, I've always gone for quiet and relaxed with him, and in turn allowed him to do things more on his terms than mine as far as responsiveness and ridability.

What I meant by the 0 to 60 comment is that, as an example, I'll put my leg on (or half halt, or...) and he'll give me no response, then, if I insist, he'll scoot off on me. Maybe I should have said 0 or 60! I totally agree that he should move off when I put my leg on (and that's one of the things we're most definately working towards), but I am not happy with only a response from either end of the spectrum. He needs to be able to move off promptly but softly.

Thank you for the ideas; I appreciate the thoughts!

[Beethoven]

It really sounds like the root of your problem is that your horse does not accept contact, but I am also willing to bet that you are not consistant in your contact with his mouth. I very strongly encourage you to take some dressage lessons and learn about connection and contact and encouraging the horse too seek and take the contact with your hands and not the other way around. This does not mean a horse that gets heavy in your hands by any means! Its a hard concept and with a hot TB a very very fine line. As you have to keep contact while asking them to accept and take contact without pulling on their mouth and making them panicy. Once you have a good connection with your horse then it easier to school them lateral and off your leg without them inverting and shooting away from you. I love the hot TBs! I have a hot TB mare that I have trained from the ground up with the help of a trainer's eye and once we established the connection everything has been easy since!

[fordtraktor]

This horse is not accepting your hand or your leg. Regarding your leg, not going forward is an evasion, and scooting off is an evasion. Same with hand -- in front of and behind the bit are both evasions. It also sounds like the horse is unbalanced and not able to maintain a steady rhythm.

You need to learn to get the horse between your hand and leg, so that it CAN be balanced and responsive. If your regular trainer is not well-versed in this, employ a dressage or jumper trainer with a strong flatwork emphasis. Much of this is feeling, so you will need an educated eye on the ground to help you develop an appropriate level of feeling.


IME, a good, well-broke hunter will go in contact with a nice balanced frame before they develop a good hunter flatting style. Then they can graduate to where you can loop the reins, stretch out, and still maintain balance.

Hot horses require even more emphasis on accepting the aids. Just because a horse is "hot" is no excuse for not having him broke. You say your horse does fine on the basics, but isn't progressing. That is because his basics are not sound -- he's not accepting your aids and responding to them, which is as basic as basic gets -- and something we all continue to work on throughout each horse's career!

[CBoylen]

You may want to try to borrow a leather bit from someone and see how he goes in that, something makes me think it might be the right compromise for you.

[meupatdoes]

Callan Solem wrote a really good article about working with the hot, sensitive horse in Practical Horseman recently.

I think it was the July issue; see if someone from your barn has it lying around.

[TKR]

I love the smart/complicated, sensitive/hot, too. It's like putting a puzzle together finding ways to get them relaxed and working correctly.

After you get the response from your leg aid, even if he scoots, keep the leg "on" -- you are rewarding his behavior if you take it off. Leave it on and let him deal with it. He has to accept the leg and the aids.

Working with a good dressage trainer who is also good with Thoroughbreds as you describe could be helpful, but ONLY if you find the right one. I wouldn't allow someone who is device happy to work on this. Someone who could help you with your aids and seat and balance will help balance your horse. He needs to find correct contact that is consistent and also keep his rhythm and balance. Try big circles and make them smaller and smaller and then larger and larger. You might find this useful in getting a rhythm and suppling.

I think rubber bits taste bad and create a "dry" mouth. I love the aurigan or German silver KK bits. Everything I've ever schooled loved and accepted them and chewed on them in a good way keeping their mouth moist -- increasing the responsiveness. Get one sized properly with the "bean" in the middle.

You could also set up some cones or anything in the ring at random and use them to zigzag around in different patterns to get the attention on you and your aids so he is not anticipating. Finding the consistent contact and enforcing the aids will also help. You have to find a way to keep the dialogue going between you. Teach him some lateral work, that is helpful and use serpentines. You can use these and the circles to increase and decrease the collection or length of stride within a gait as well.

Trail ride! Great way to get the relaxation and attention.

Good luck!
PennyG

[Small Change]

Thank you for all the posts. I completely agree that the horse is trying to evade both my hand and leg, and that it is something that we need a tremendous amount on. I guess the root of my question is to see whether anyone had advice on how to keep the horse happier and more relaxed while we work through our issues.

Beethoven - You're right. Consistency of contact is another thing I'm working on. It's tough when the horse goes from leaning to ducking behind the bit quickly, then back to leaning. My tendency is also to let go too much, and be too soft. It's a process for both horse and I.

Chanda - Thanks for the idea. I'll have to see if I can get my hands on one.

meupatdoes - I'll have to look for the article. Thanks for the suggestion.

TKR - Thank you for your suggestions. The good news is that we already hack out all the time - the horses love it, and I don't get so crazy from looking at the same four arena walls all winter. :)

Thank you again everyone. I appreciate you all taking the time to post.

[lesson junkie]

I know it is basic and elementary-how much do you use your voice? It is a great help with sensitive horses, especially TBs. They are so smart and try so hard that your voice helps them relax. It's sort of a bridge to leg/hand aids.

[IsolaBella09]

My horse was like this when I first got him. He's a TB cross so he does have that 'vroom' engine in him. I focused on getting him used to my aids and using my leg and hand and voice. He has now quieted down, and is now comfortable with my leg pressure. Focus on slowly introducing your aids and different pressure with them. Using your voice also really helps.

[foursocks]

hah- lesson junkie- I was about to suggest the same thing! Small Change- I have a powerhouse TB who was much the same way as your horse when I got him. Teaching him voice aids and gradually introducing more and more complex hand, leg and seat aids/communication worked really well to get him focused and less reactive. Good luck! I love a big engine, too, but it can be hard when your engine reacts to everything like you've just goosed it! ;)

[jumperg]

I too, LUV those HOT HOT thoroughbreds !!!! I really like a horse with their own engine, i.e. already on the 'G" waiting for the "O". However, I have found that one of the secrets is using the same aids, you would use on their duller cousins, but very quietly !!!! One tends to fall into the trap of saying Nothing. Just say the same things, except in a whisper. In other words, use your leg aids, but softer, if no response, ride with a small spur !!! A "touch" with the spur, gets their attention, but not the scoot a "kick" generates. You of course, have to be in controll of your own body, so that your aids are not inadvertently applied. ( and this is harder than you would think) Hot horses, require precision from the rider..... BUT it is worth it. Because eventually you just think it... and it happens.

[fordtraktor]

One of the best exercises to get a horse to accept your hand and leg is teaching them lateral work. That way they can start to understand that (1) they must move off your leg, and (2) leg does not always mean LEAP FORWARD. :) I have two very hot horses, and love using this technique. Plus, it gives them something fun to think about and work on besides being calm, which is not something the hot horse sees as a goal, as much as the rider would like it to!

I also find with many hot horses that it is easy to frustrate them. They need to be set up for success and praised effusively when they get it right. (This is true for all horses, but particularly for the hot ones.)

One of mine loves his mullen HS Duo loose ring, while the other prefers an oval-mouth french link. You might want to give the french link a try if you haven't already. I would love a leather bit for the one that likes a mullen, but they are $$. If anyone knows where to get a reasonably priced one, I'd be interested too!

Anne Kursinski's book on training and showing is a good starting place. It is not focused on the hot horse, but tells you what and how to do basic lateral work in a way I find easy to understand.

[woodstock]

Okay- brief tangent- where does one find a leather bit? I've always been interested in them but never been able to find one.

[RacetrackReject]

I could be completely wrong, so feel free to ignore what I am about to say ... (i'm also an eventer =O)

As Ford and TKR touched on, because a horse is hot, does not mean that it is in front of your leg. Spurting off is an evasion to get away from the leg and not be truly forward. I think that once you get your horse in front of your leg and moving honestly forward, the other issue (inverting, going beyond vertical) will lessen unless there is some other underlying issue such as mouth problems, soreness, etc.

[findeight]

Think you do have two issues here. One is the bit, some are hard to find something they are comfortable in due to all sorts of things from mouth shape to hating the taste to how thick the mouthpiece is.

Little tangent here too, and in general not aimed at anybody in particular...describing a bit as a "D". That is just the shape of the sidepieces and has nothing to do with what goes between them. I read so much "Oh, he goes in a Dee" when it would be better to phrase it as "He is in a slow twist copper Dee ring" or "He is in a full cheek corkscrew". The sidepieces do have an effect on how the bit works but don't tell any of the story about what goes inside.

But the big thing here is attributing the fact he is not broke to the aids to "sensitivity". Almost have to change your total way of thinking and how you approach your schooling.

Don't blame yourself so much and realize that he, too, bears part of the blame. Why? Because he is SMART and simply does not want to. This whole idea of resisting any kind of pressure being related to sensitivity is misplaced. He may be more responsive to a light ride but only if he actually responds to light aids. Ignoring you or doing something different allows him to COMMAND your ride. They like that. They get you thinking you are using too much leg or something when they really are not responding to you because they don't want to. "I'm not going to do that and you cannot make me".

Of COURSE he is good hacking out or loping on a loose rein, he does not have to do anything. That is actually good because he will relax and you can use that loose rein as a reward when he does repsond properly.

The answer has already been given-dressage. Back to basics. Not with a trainer who would force but one that won't back down either. That would mean they would have to be smarter then the horse...ought to be a given but...

All of mine have been what you'd call "hot", the Western ones too. Bit of a double edged sword-they can be better when finished but are more of a challenge to get there.

[NancyM]

I have a similar situation. Tends to overbend and take no feel, and get hot. A happy mouth straight bar bit has been an improvement over the myler D he was in. But I am considering getting rid of the bit entirely, going to a jumping/english hackamore. Haven't tried it yet, too much snow to ride just now. Hoping to avoid the overbending reaction to the bit entirely, concentrate on leg contact and acceptance first and without the double whammy of the bit evasion at the same time. Get some relaxed riding time in for a while before tackling the next part. Mine is smart, very powerful, quick, opinionated, sensitive, athletic, and dominant. Never misses anything. Will overreact sometimes. Quiet enough to be around on the ground, but issues with evasions to the bit (overbending) went unsolved when racing, adequate responses for the amount of control needed to the bit in that part of his career. Some leg responses are OK, since I've always ridden him and tend to ride exercise long. Went in a leather bit while racing, leather spoon bit (solid core), but not enough precision with this bit for hunters or non-racing riding. Not a pretty or accepted bit for hunters either. But you can get a flexable mouthpiece bit (cable or chain) padded and covered with leather by a saddler if you want to make your own and try it. I'd avoid the mouthpiece being only leather without a core of some sort, they will chew through the leather in time. Good luck with yours, you are not alone.

[Chef Jade]

One tends to fall into the trap of saying Nothing.

Meredith Beerbaum taught a clinic at Thermal last year an done of the rider's horses was a nervous type. She said you need to keep you leg ON a hot horse. So basically waht you said above but just in different terms. I tend to fall into the "say nothing" trap with my project horse who is "high-energy" but not hot. My goal is to actually get her to go forward on a loose rein and relaxed through the topline.
My routine is walking on a loose rein for 20 minutes all over the property and at least 5 in the arena before we work. Every once in awhile I will take up contact, bend one way, bend the other (which of course requires leg!) and then back to loose rein. So asking for something with leg becomes no big deal. Then I usually have to start out at a sit trot, going real slow. If I let her zoom off, it takes twice as long to get her back to me. Once I feel her relax at the sit trot, relax my reins which ISN'T a cue to go forward. If she scoots or picks up the pace, I re-establish contact, slow her down, and start again. This can take 10-20 minutes of sit trot before I go into a little post trot where I continue the same process of "dropping her" with the goal I can do nice forward but relaxed trot on little to no contact, or just a reminder half-halt. Anyway, it is a loooooong process.
Now we are working on the upward transistion to the canter, she wants to gallop off as soon as she feels my cue. Any ideas?

[fordtraktor]

Chef Jade, some people prefer to do it that way, but I like to just put the hot horse into normal work. The relaxation comes with time. I find that with your method, every time you try something new it is back to square one.

With my OTTB who is on the hotter side, I just started asking him to behave like a normal horse from the beginning. I'd pick up a trot. At first he wanted to zoom around and then spook/buck. I would use leg to push him forward into the bridle. If he wanted to overreact by getting behind the bit, I kept the contact and raised my hands to encourage him to come up to the bit. When he did, I gave. In this stage, when he was tense he WORKED -- we did serpentines, transitions within the gait, baby leg yielding. When he was good, he got a pat and walk on a loose rein. Pretty soon he realized that he wasn't getting anywhere by zooming around, and that he only got to stop working when he was relaxed and slow. At first that meant "tired", but he soon got the hang of it and would start out that way. When he did, I kept the lessons really short, and praised effusively. Now he is very calm under saddle and can trot and canter nicely and softly on light contact. I wouldn't really call him hot any more.

If your horse zooms off at the canter, sit up and half halt (leg to hand). I do not accept zooming around, even on a baby. If they are old enough to ride, they are old enough to behave!

[Mtn trails]

This is great stuff as I'm having a similar situation with my mare. Zooms off at the canter but is great at the trot. I've been a little easy on her and partly the zooming off scares me a little. Having had my share of injuries over the years, I ride a bit more defensively than I need to and I'm working on it. This thread couldn't have been more timely.

[zahena]

My horse is a monster at the trot. Tries to ignore my rhythm, tries to run through my hand. I have him in a loose ring snaffle but I'm going to move him on to something a little more aggressive to get him off his front end a tad more.

At a canter, he's an angel. I could ride that canter all day. Soft, round, like sitting on a pillowy cloud. His trot is pretty intensly nice too, he just tends to want to go all extended all the time.

I do keep leg on, push him towards the bridle and make him collect. When he does, momma lightens him up. I also try to vary him between collected walk/trot to stretchy walk/trot. If he gets SUPER heavy, I drop him away and he learns I'm here to help.

I think you're on a good track. Admitting to the problem is the step toward the cure. LOL!!! Seek out GOOD instruction.

[andylover]

i didnt read all the threads, but wanted to respond to fords. i agree with fords response. i too had a GP OTTB and he was consistenly spooking at just about anything and everything. oh the same arena door, now that was fun, spooked at that millions of times :eek:. what i found that really worked was always to keep him guessing as to what you were going to ask for next and constantly change. change directions, speed, rate, cadence, anything you can think of to keep his brain occupied. sometimes they are brains just get bored for lack of a better way to phrase it.. i just know it worked for us and as soon as i changed the program and pushed through everything with leg then he would settle down. good luck, i feel your pain :)

[Small Change]

Thanks again for all the replies. I had a very good ride on the horse in question tonight - it started out with me insisting he stand still for me to climb up, and progressed from there. I put him in his rubber bit (so there would be no question in my mind as to whether I was being too hard on his mouth), then did my best to keep steady, quiet contact with both my hand and leg. When he squirted forward, I just left my leg on until he settled, and if he dropped above or behind the bit, I tried to keep the same contact. Some of the comments on here got me thinking that when he drops behind the bit and I soften (thinking I'm encouraging him to bring his nose back out), I'm actually rewarding him for ducking behind the bit.

There was some head tossing and attempts at zooming, but he then settled and worked very nicely in a forward walk and trot. I did a lot more transition work too, which is something I had avoided as he anticipated so much with them. Today, he was much quieter when I kept hand and leg there whether we were doing upward or downward transitions. He actually quieted so much to my leg that I think I'll put a tiny spur on tomorrow.

I also tried to keep asking for forward motion when he tried squirting off on me. His normal repertoire is to scoot forward, then pop his head up and take teeny tiny steps for about a half dozen strides, then level back out. I found that if I didn't let him suck back into the itty bitty strides, but rather just pushed him on, we resolved the scoot much sooner with less fuss.

Thank you all - I know that horsey and I have a lot of work ahead of us, but I really do think we're on the right track. It seems so simple now, but I guess I just needed the reassurance that this is the right way to go about things with him.

I also dug out my latex wrapped wire mullen mouth D ring. I think I'll peel all the latex off, then get a leather cover and give it a go. It's worth a try, and won't be too expensive an experiment. Thanks again for the idea, Chanda.

[findeight]

Zooming into the canter issues.

One thing that sometimes gets this started is fooling too much when you first introduce this transition. Horses don't know how to do this by nature-they know to gallop, not collect.

You say canter. Horse canters but you don't like it-wrong lead, too fast, head up etc. So you start trying to fix that by taking the forward that you just asked for, and got, away. So horse learns that if he canters when you ask, he gets confused and punished so he either takes off or sulks back when asked. Older horses too.

You have to start by allowing them to go forward for a bit and then smooth it out. This is really more difficult for timid riders but it can be unlearned and relearned.

You have to trust them a little here. They really cannot go anywhere and they cannot buck if they are going forward at a good canter. Get the forward first and reward it. Then you can polish.

Have to say some people are just not aware the horse is too fresh either. especially if you have not worked them in a few days or it's cold, you need to let that forward happen and go along for awhile before you get to real work. Couple of laps at a nice gallop won't hurt a thing. plus, if you leep them going after they want to stop, they can learn it's not so much fun.

[leelee]

I've found it helpful to lounge them in a bitting rig where there is the strap that goes around the hind leg. The horse learns to accept pressure on the bit, and if he pulls or starts to lean on the bit, the back leg straps activate and make him bring his legs under him. I've found this very helpful for those that like to lean or pull. Have someone that has experience with these help you.

It seems all we've gotten in lately are OTTBs. Sometimes we'll just ride at the walk and trot and JUST work on simple stuff like moving off the legs, moving the haunches, shoulders, etc. It helps to have a refresher in those basics without getting them excited about canter work.

If, while jumping, they have done something good but I can tell their brain is about to escape them, I'll let them stand for a minute to "decompress". If there is a door open I'll sometimes let them look out for a minute. Once I get a sigh from them they are usually ready to get back to work, and most of the time they've forgotten why they were so excited.

[flash1]

I was going to say the same thing as eponacelt....I have a TB who we event....he tends to be a bit on the hot side...anticipates etc...I have him in training right now with a dressage trainer...and OMG what a difference...barely recognize him....she never asks the same thing in the same way twice...so his brain is busy...and he cant anticipate...works wonders...

[Iride]

My hunch is that a mullen mouth is not ideal for this horse. They can be hard on the bars esp. if the horse has a small gap between them. I just recently bought this soft bit below and my young horse so far really likes it (expensive but worth every penny), a Herm Sprenger WH with aurigan and a wonderful roller thing in the middle - if you want you can wrap the bars of the bit with latex or vetwrap. He had a nice expression first time he went in it and mouthed/salivated nicely.

http://www.doversaddlery.com/product.asp?pn=X1-01871&idu=1B609D4UEF5Z&ids=465528263

If you really want to stick to mullens, try this one below. Its flexible, and, is shaped so that there is room for the tongue:

http://www.doversaddlery.com/product.asp?pn=X1-01766&idu=1B609D4UEF5Z&ids=465528263

Also, perhaps you could preface your rides with some longlining. And when he gets strung out at the canter have you tried doing lots of transitions? Maybe take one session and make your goal to do lots of canter to trot transitions. Not drilling but until you feel him soften. Praise. Quit when you're ahead. Next day new little goal. Good luck!

[foursocks]

Absolutely, getting their brains engaged can be the best thing for the hot ones.

I didn't try anything dressage-y for the first year I had mine- he just needed to learn how to not be a racehorse! But after that I began introducing very basic dressage stuff (using a chambon to introduce contact worked fabulously) and now we do what I call faux/jumper dressage. Three years from when I first got him he takes contact, works amazingly well through his back, has remained light in front and powerful behind, and is really, really supple. We can do very small voltes at the canter, figure eights around two fences, etc. He doesn't overreact to my aids any more and we are so much more in tune with each other. But it took months and months and months before my angry giraffe turned into a bona fide jumper. Keeping his brain and his legs busy has been and probably always will be the most important thing.

And, as you already are finding out- forward is really important. It seems counter-intuitive when the horse is boinging up and down but he can't boing when he is being asked to engage himself and move forward! Forward into a nice, simple circle is a great way to work into some of the more advanced stuff, too. Good luck and have fun- I love my horse's engine!

[cyberbay]

Also, if you can, take out any sugar in his diet -- really, seriously...try something like a ration balancer -- and consider adding magnesium and or B1 vitamin.

If you do work with a dressage trainer re: contact, do plan to take many, many lessons on this subject. It is not understood overnight, and once you have the major points understood, the tiny gaps in your technique will still pose problems with your horse. Contact is a permanent thing in your daily ride, and it can mean re-learning the meaning of 'soft,' etc.

Also, the Sprenger rubber bit, which is narrow as well as tapered in the middle, can be very comfortable for a horse, far more than the hard plastic Mylers. A thin bit might, in general, be more comfortable. The French link are a great style, too, I've found.

[Beethoven]

Zooming into the canter issues.

One thing that sometimes gets this started is fooling too much when you first introduce this transition. Horses don't know how to do this by nature-they know to gallop, not collect.

You say canter. Horse canters but you don't like it-wrong lead, too fast, head up etc. So you start trying to fix that by taking the forward that you just asked for, and got, away. So horse learns that if he canters when you ask, he gets confused and punished so he either takes off or sulks back when asked. Older horses too.

You have to start by allowing them to go forward for a bit and then smooth it out. This is really more difficult for timid riders but it can be unlearned and relearned.

You have to trust them a little here. They really cannot go anywhere and they cannot buck if they are going forward at a good canter. Get the forward first and reward it. Then you can polish.

Have to say some people are just not aware the horse is too fresh either. especially if you have not worked them in a few days or it's cold, you need to let that forward happen and go along for awhile before you get to real work. Couple of laps at a nice gallop won't hurt a thing. plus, if you leep them going after they want to stop, they can learn it's not so much fun.

Thats very true about the canter! My TB mare's canter started out like crap as she just had to think about where to put all of her feet and not fall down at the canter which she did twice:eek:. SO I just had to let her roll along at a speed she was confortable with and really sit up and keep her lifted of her forehand and it wasn't pretty of comfortable, but her canter is really getting there now! It took awhile for her to get it, but now it is nice. She comes into contact and accepts my half halts and really steps up under herself. Some horses just take time to get things and the only way to get them is to wait it out.

OP, glad to hear you had a good ride. TBs try to out smart us by trying to teach us how to ride them, but you have to tell them to cut the crap and that escaping the aids is not the answer as there is no hole to escape!

[RodeoHunter]

I totally agree with Iride with regareds to the HS bit. I bought a monster 17.3 TB who was ridden in thin metal pelhams and gags because of his pulling issues. I played with him for awhile by myself and managed to turn him into both strong and HOT. :lol: I moved to a show barn and the first thing my new coach did was put him in a french link and emphasized to me that the stronger he is, the more leg I need and the more I need to reward (ie give) his mouth when he listens. Good luck!

[Beau Cheval]

Sounds a lot like my horse. I had a trainer who pretty much had us going around sort of letting him do whatever he wanted and having my with loose reins and legs and barely touching him. Eventually I could ask him to chill out with my body, but that is not a recipe for any kind of success. I moved to my current trainer who is awesome and she pretty much was like, "DAMMIT RIDE HIM!!!" She told me that horses WANT to be told what to do. It bothers/confuses/upsets them when they aren't being instructed on what to do. So I started to really ride him. Push him to get him to step up, work with his mouth (bend, half halt, play with his mouth). He can be a jerk and he'll flip his head, get really uppity and jump around and flip his head without moving forward, get quick and hollow. But you just need to ride properly through this, push him forward into your solid hand when he does any of this. I have my horse in a loose-ring waterford and a full cheek waterford. That worked really well for a while (since august) but now I'm feeling like I might want to switch to something else for a little while. He is an extremely hard horse to bit. I'm with you on liking the hotter ones too, but my trainer also says that they make it much harder because the best way to get a horse to work in the best way possible is when you have a horse that is going to do what you ask, when you ask, no more, no less so accepting something other than perfection is a risk you take with these hot blooded guys, but hey, that's what makes it fun! Anyways, good luck, I'm totally in your boat (except my guy is still too wacked out to be doing anything remotely in hunterland. We can't keep ourselves together that long yet LOL). Bottom line advice: RIDE. ;)

i also wanted to add: with my horse, the more he excercises the more hyper he gets (if he starts out at a normal energy level e.g. good weather, ridden the day before, etc.) So, especially since your horse is a TB, the letting him gallop might not be the answer, but it just as well may be, so if that doesn't work, don't worry you just need another approach. OR you could gallop and then walk for like 5 minutes so his heart returns to normal, then start your workout.

[Small Change]

Just a quick update for anyone who might be interested - Mr. Hot & Sensitive is going so well now that I've made a commitment to keeping my hand and leg on, and he realized that no amount of scooting or overreacting will get him out of it. He goes on a nice soft contact now (instead of a loopy rein), and I'm actually riding in spurs (instead of being afraid to put my leg on). He's even got extension and collection at the canter now! We only used to have a lopey hunter canter, a pogo-stick collection, and a hand gallop. We also jumped today for the first time after me changing the way I ride him, and he was great! So much softer on the landing side, and didn't get all stirred up when I sat softly and asked him to settle.

Thanks so much to everyone who gave all the help and suggestions - I just needed the encouragement that I was on the right path with this guy. We had some really rocky rides at first, as he certainly didn't appreciate my great ideas about doing more than just sitting up there, but I can really see a change in this horse now!

Oh, and Chanda? If you happen to read this again, he has a nice D ring snaffle out being covered in leather right now. I made a rather crude version of one to see how he'd like it before spending the money to have one made up, and he really went well in it. Thanks for the idea! He says it's much better than the nasty tasting latex-covered version I tried to ride him in. :)

[CBoylen]

Oh, good! I was hoping that would work.

[EqTrainer]

Very nice about the bit :)

Something I just want to add, is that throughout this thread there is some confusion about the leg IMO. The fact that you want a horse to go forward when you close your leg is the *baby* stage. Unfortunately some, or really, a lot of horses get stuck right here and never become more educated than this. So you have a horse who runs forward from the leg.. forever. These horses are often described as hot and sensitive. Actually, they are just doing exactly what they have been told to do.

Instead, after the horse understand that the leg means GO NOW you want to teach them that the leg means MORE POWER NOW. You do this by teaching and riding the half halt so that the horse can learn to get into a balanced place that they find relaxing and comfortable.

I'm sorry if this is redundant but I skimmed the thread and didn't think I saw any reference to this. So just some food for thought for the OP, as to where this is all heading hopefully.