Suggestions for finding home for unsound horse

[Parrotnutz]

I already posted under the free board. This is a friend's horse I am posting.
He is a coming 11 yr old warmblood...holsteiner/Tb cross....16.2 and a good guy.

Friend bought him last spring and something had to have been done cause he was sound with perfect x-rays...went lame after 3 months....MRI shows navicular bursa problem.....and not a new problem. he has scars found by vet not in the usual place a horse would be nerved.
Anyway....friend wants to continue her jumping/show career....cannot qwith this guy. He "may" be sound enough to trail ride....
Any suggestions on where she could find him a home...as a give away...but she doesn't want him to wind up at auction etc if someone thinks they can 'cure" him and they can't...there is no "cure"

Any help appreciated.

[pines4equines]

This is an unfortunate situation and not a new one. Two things I would recommend.

1. Have your friend find retirement board for this horse for the rest of his life. You can find some pasture/run-in shed places.

2. Mercifully put the horse down.

There are so many free horses out there...sound horses going for $50 bucks at auctions across the country or going on a double decker to Mexico. I would opt for two if she is not willing to foot the bill for this horse the rest of its life.

These are live animals and yes, they can become lame two months after purchasing. Prior to buying a horse, I think all need to be aware of what they are going to do with a horse should it not become useful. It's just the responsible thing to do.

[pj]

This is an unfortunate situation and not a new one. Two things I would recommend.

1. Have your friend find retirement board for this horse for the rest of his life. You can find some pasture/run-in shed places.

2. Mercifully put the horse down.

There are so many free horses out there...sound horses going for $50 bucks at auctions across the country or going on a double decker to Mexico. I would opt for two if she is not willing to foot the bill for this horse the rest of its life.

These are live animals and yes, they can become lame two months after purchasing. Prior to buying a horse, I think all need to be aware of what they are going to do with a horse should it not become useful. It's just the responsible thing to do.
AMEN :sadsmile:

[RedMare01]

I agree with p4e. There is nothing wrong with putting a horse like this down. It may be the best for all parties involved (both your friend and the horse :sadsmile:).

Caitlin

[Thomas_1]

This horse might have a chance if it's owner posted what she was prepared to contribute in terms of it's costs once it's rehomed.

[angelacres]

Hi,

You can have your friend contact me directly and I would be happy to try to help. We have helped placed many horses that are pasture sound only...you can see the latest one, Raneem, with his family on our blog.

Have a great night!

Jo



Jo Deibel
President/Director
Angel Acres Horse Haven Rescue, Inc.
www.saveahorsenow.com
PO Box 62
Glenville, PA 17329
Phone: 717-965-7901
Fax: 866-892-5069

[Parrotnutz]

This is an unfortunate situation and not a new one. Two things I would recommend.

1. Have your friend find retirement board for this horse for the rest of his life. You can find some pasture/run-in shed places.

2. Mercifully put the horse down.

There are so many free horses out there...sound horses going for $50 bucks at auctions across the country or going on a double decker to Mexico. I would opt for two if she is not willing to foot the bill for this horse the rest of its life.

These are live animals and yes, they can become lame two months after purchasing. Prior to buying a horse, I think all need to be aware of what they are going to do with a horse should it not become useful. It's just the responsible thing to do.


First let me say....I offered to post this for my friend...trying to help.

Second...she is trying to do the responsible thing. she had a prepurchase to the tune of 1200.00 She spent a lot of money finding out what was wrong with him and while horses do go unsound after purchase this has been diagnosed as NOT a NEW injury....via an MRI...but the horse was purchased out of state and it would cost more to pursue legal action than the purchase price of the horse.He was not a rich woman's priced horse

She knows she cannot afford to board him the rest of his life and get a horse to ride......while some may feel that is terrible....that is a fact which is why she will not let him wind up at auction etc.

I took it upon myself to ask and see if there were any alternatives out here. She has already contacted a vet school to donate him to, but they are full up. She is considering having him put down since he is so very lame.

I guess what I am trying to say is....lectures are not necessary.....she is an adult who is considering all options humanely and also thinks rather than wind up at auction at the killers that to put him down would be better....
So please suggestions welcomed...no lectures please.

She will be getting in touch with the woman who posted here also

[summerhorse]

AMEN :sadsmile:


And another AMEN! The only place he'll be truly safe is in her ownership. If he's in pain I'd put him down. If she can't support two I'd put him down. It's not the worst thing that can happen to him. And in today's economy it IS the responsible thing to do. There MIGHT be a home out there she can trust but odds are against finding it.

[Coreene]

Part of puting the horse first is not sending it off down the road, not knowing what fate awaits it in a year or two. Maybe becoming sound also means maybe becoming DFL. Much to be said for doing the kinest thing and puting the horse down.

[Parrotnutz]

Part of puting the horse first is not sending it off down the road, not knowing what fate awaits it in a year or two. Maybe becoming sound also means maybe becoming DFL. Much to be said for doing the kinest thing and puting the horse down.


This is probably what will happen, I repeat....posting here was a last ditch effort.
I worked in the animal medical field and agree that putting him down may be the answer.

what does DFL stand for?

[Ambrey]

Doesn't a lot of it depend on whether the horse is even pasture sound? I mean, is it going to be comfortable even without being ridden?

The idea of him being retired to green pastures is all well and good, but if his bad leg is as bad as it sounds, I don't think it sounds like that would even be a happy ending for him.

If he IS pasture sound, I think she's got an ethical dilemma of epic proportions. I don't envy her :(

[4350833]

I'm sorry that your friend is going through this. It sucks, and there is no nice way to say this, but...

She needs to suck it up, and take care of the horse until he meets his maker, or put him down.

There will be many opportunities to advance her riding career, but if she's a decent human she'll do right by this horse and not make him someone else's problem.

I speak from experience, having a retired 5 year old gelding. Not usable in any way, shape or form. I was going to put him down, but I decided that it wasn't fair for him. I make the necessairy sacrifices to keep him fed, clothed, and medical taken care of just as if he were a top show horse.

[BasqueMom]

Is there no way he could be sound for some riding with the use of ixosphrene and
corrective shoeing? My first horse was diagnosed with navicular 3 or 4 years after I got
him. With the ixo and shoes, we still did some jumping for a few years until we discovered
arthritis in a front knee. Still rode him for several more years until the vet said because
of the arthritis it was time to ride just at a walk or when the ground was very soft.

Fortunately, I had a backyard to keep him in and he was with us for 19 years until old age
and the Texas summers became too much. But the navicular was the least of his problems.

Just a thought...don't envy your friend's predicament. Had one of my best friends tell
me I should just find Fudge a field somewhere to live in. Duh--why do I need to find him
pasture board when I've got 3 stalls and 5 acres. Sigh!

[Coreene]

DFL means Dead Fu$@ing Lame. I truly do feel for your friend, but I also feel that sending him off to Pasture Palhood is just leaving it to someone else to do the deed. They can't sit in front of the tv with their feet up when they are in pain, and you never know if his new situation would include some anthropomorphic whackjob who doesn't have the cojones to put a horse in pain to sleep.

[Thomas_1]

First let me say....I offered to post this for my friend...trying to help.

Second...she is trying to do the responsible thing. she had a prepurchase to the tune of 1200.00 She spent a lot of money finding out what was wrong with him and while horses do go unsound after purchase this has been diagnosed as NOT a NEW injury....via an MRI...but the horse was purchased out of state and it would cost more to pursue legal action than the purchase price of the horse.He was not a rich woman's priced horse

She knows she cannot afford to board him the rest of his life and get a horse to ride......while some may feel that is terrible....that is a fact which is why she will not let him wind up at auction etc.

I took it upon myself to ask and see if there were any alternatives out here. She has already contacted a vet school to donate him to, but they are full up. She is considering having him put down since he is so very lame.

I guess what I am trying to say is....lectures are not necessary.....she is an adult who is considering all options humanely and also thinks rather than wind up at auction at the killers that to put him down would be better....
So please suggestions welcomed...no lectures please.

She will be getting in touch with the woman who posted here also Sh** happens with horses and truth be told no matter what you do in terms of ppe things can and do go wrong. Its a living thing and doesn't come with instructions and a guarantee. Neither IMO should horses be treated as commodities (or motorbikes) whereby you buy one, find it's no good or broken so throw it out, pass it on or get rid so you can get a shiny new one that might be better.

I know that in voicing this opinion on the likes of these forums gets you labelled as some heartless owner enemy or rich toff who doesn't understand what it's like to be poor and not be able to afford to take care of broken horse and when you really want to get another shiny new one that isn't broken.

But to be frank I've absolutely no time nor interesting in helping anyone to pass on a broken horse so they can move on to getting a new one.

If the horse is not suffering but is merely not fit for what she intended but is able to be a "trail horse" and lightly used then I can't begin to understand why folks are even suggesting to put it down. Heck that's what we're told and we're also told it's only been lame for 3 months!

So I'm struggling to understand how or why a vet would indulge any owner in such practice. Surely it would be against any vet's ethical principles and code of conduct.

So the OP's friend can't afford to keep this horse and to get another. She doesn't want him to end up at a meat plant.

That's dead easy. Look after him. Don't get another!

[jn4jenny]

Parrotnutz, it sounds like what really happened is that you knew the answer to your own question and now you're ticked off that no one's offering you an alternative. Sorry, but as others have stated in this situation, the options are as obvious to one responsible horse owner like yourself as it is to the rest of us: suck it up and pay for the horse's retirement or put him down. Some people HAVE actually expressed an opinion to you, and I will echo it: if it were my horse, I'd put him down.

[Parrotnutz]

Sh** happens with horses and truth be told no matter what you do in terms of ppe things can and do go wrong. Its a living thing and doesn't come with instructions and a guarantee. Neither IMO should horses be treated as commodities (or motorbikes) whereby you buy one, find it's no good or broken so throw it out, pass it on or get rid so you can get a shiny new one that might be better.

I know that in voicing this opinion on the likes of these forums gets you labelled as some heartless owner enemy or rich toff who doesn't understand what it's like to be poor and not be able to afford to take care of broken horse and when you really want to get another shiny new one that isn't broken.

But to be frank I've absolutely no time nor interesting in helping anyone to pass on a broken horse so they can move on to getting a new one.

If the horse is not suffering but is merely not fit for what she intended but is able to be a "trail horse" and lightly used then I can't begin to understand why folks are even suggesting to put it down. Heck that's what we're told and we're also told it's only been lame for 3 months!

So I'm struggling to understand how or why a vet would indulge any owner in such practice. Surely it would be against any vet's ethical principles and code of conduct.

So the OP's friend can't afford to keep this horse and to get another. She doesn't want him to end up at a meat plant.

That's dead easy. Look after him. Don't get another!

Ok 1 more time....
This horse has not been lame only 3 months...he went lame 3 months after purchase. MRI shows a long standing problem...as witnessed by calcification and scare tissue...old tendon tear, etc. The horse most likely had been nerved and purchaser not told...Nerving only lasts so long.

I used to work for vets and not matter what a vet might be thinking, the law<right or wrong> is, an animal is a piece of property and if the owner wants it put down it gets put down...I have witnessed this. The vet can refuse to do it but people then find another vet.

As another poster said...I know the options....but once and awhile one can "dream" someone may have needed a friend for another retiree.
It happened to me 20+ years ago when I had a dead lame horse.....a person right around the corner from my barn lost her horse's companion and took mine.....where he lived out his entire life. See sometimes there is a Santa Clause <smile>

That is the reason I posted....to see if anyone, on the small chance, might need a pasture companion.

There is no way my friend wants to "pass on the problem" to someone else...sigh....I decided to post this here in the oft chance someone needed a companion horse......

I currently house 6 parrots that were someone elses problems at 1 time so I surely know from where you all speak and neither I nor my friend think in those terms.

Twas all a dream...forgive me.....after all I am a 58 yr old lady who sometimes remembers the good....and knows life is not written in black and white...there are many shades of grey.....

[caryledee]

I think the question is whether the horse is sound enough to do trail riding occasionally, and what his temperament is like...would he be okay for a beginner or occasional rider? How about as a therapy horse? I think some people are jumping the gun by saying he should be put down...even in this economy she may be able to find a home for him if she gives it some time. Big horses are easier to find homes for, in general. I had a big guy that came down with lameness issues. I was prepared to do the "right" thing and put him down, when someone stepped up and said she would love to try him out as an occasional trail horse. It was someone I trusted, and so I gave him to her with the condition that he come back to me if it didn't work out. If he does come back, I would still do the right thing and euthanize him, but at least this way, he has a chance at life.

Good luck to your friend, and I applaud you for trying to help her out! I hope this guy does find a great retirement home!

[Parrotnutz]

I think the question is whether the horse is sound enough to do trail riding occasionally, and what his temperament is like...would he be okay for a beginner or occasional rider? How about as a therapy horse? I think some people are jumping the gun by saying he should be put down...even in this economy she may be able to find a home for him if she gives it some time. Big horses are easier to find homes for, in general. I had a big guy that came down with lameness issues. I was prepared to do the "right" thing and put him down, when someone stepped up and said she would love to try him out as an occasional trail horse. It was someone I trusted, and so I gave him to her with the condition that he come back to me if it didn't work out. If he does come back, I would still do the right thing and euthanize him, but at least this way, he has a chance at life. Good luck to your friend, and I applaud you for trying to help her out! I hope this guy does find a great retirement home!



THANK YOU!! At last someone sees where I came from. My friend doesn't want to saddle someone with the expenses of a lame horse they will try to make sound when the over all verdict is he "might" be sound to trail ride from time to time....maybe. Who wants to try and offer a horse who may be able to work now and then between lamenesses....this is a permanent lameness, no cures.
She tried the therapy route....no go...seems the economy has even hit there

You are really lucky and I applaud you also....thanks for the reply. I appreciate it.

[Cherry]

Parrotnutz, Jo Diebel has stepped up to the plate and offered to help your friend rehome her horse. Is your friend willing to do this????

There are only so many options available. :uhoh:

I am almost your age. I realized a long time ago that the social climate is no longer what it was even thirty years ago, let alone fifty years ago! I no longer harbor any illusions although yes, I keep hoping there is a Santa Claus out there for every one. Sometimes we have to make our own luck though. I am also finding there is a thin line between hope and delusion. Have your friend call Jo Diebel because she may be that horse's last hope!!! :yes:

[Parrotnutz]

Parrotnutz, Jo Diebel has stepped up to the plate and offered to help your friend rehome her horse. Is your friend willing to do this????

There are only so many options available. :uhoh:

I emailed the info to my friend and she will be contacting her she told me....

I also let Jo know she will be contacting her.....

All I can do is post and forward......which I have done....do you use your crop as hard as the keyboard? :D

I already posted she will be contacting Jo....

[CAH]

Okay, your friend knows the options. If this guy is easy to manage and can live outside without expensive drugs to remain comfy, then your friend can speak to her primary vet practice. Often times vets, especially in smaller practices, know when they had to put a horse down, leaving one horse behind in need of a companion. This is helpful especially if the vet thinks your friend's horse might be okay for an occasional trail ride. In these situations, word of mouth might be best.

I took in a retired school horse as a companion for hubby's horse. He also has his soundness issues but does okay for an occasion trail ride. His former connections are thrilled. Your friend should be willing to take him back if it did not work out. And yes, you take the chance.....but the only way ever to be SURE nothing bad happens is to be the last home.

[Woodland]

I have a small lesson and summer camp program. I have taken in to my program several horses that were no longer sound enough for their original intent and given them a second career here.

#1 they have to be "pasture" sound - meaning they are not hobbling about and able to have a comfortable humane level of soundness.

#2 they have to have a great attitude. Forgiving. Quiet. Lovable. Interested in learning a new skill.

#3 They must have the potential to become sound enough for light daily use under saddle.

Not every horse can handle the quiet or the lack of skill of their riders.

Not every horse can become sound enough. However I have had some surprising "recoveries" here.

I can not be the only place that does this. There must be camps and schools all over in your area that have similar needs to mine. Part of taking in horses like this is to teach compassion among my young riders. They must understand that horses like people can have special needs. And that once those special needs are met they have a useful enlightening partner.

Yes, the market is TOUGH right now! But the right situation may be just what this horse needs to get to a usable condition again.

The OP is not specific about the level of this animals lameness. And we all know there are such varying degrees. Even with navicular there can be years of relatively pain free usefulness. NOT for show jumping. But if he is really trail sound and mentally fit for trail - why does she still have him? A big pretty serviceably sound broke horse - there are always homes for those!

And what if he can not be "cured"? Well then he must be put down.

Case in point: 6 weeks ago i took in a guy from the COTH free board that has a stifle injury. He may never come sound. It appears now he may have EPM as well. The tests will be back in on Monday. If there is EPM with the injured stifle I may have to put him down for his own sake. That would equal far too many things for this dear sweet guy to recover from. And too many things working against one another to make a good recovery. Humanity must have a place in recovery. If the OP's horse is placed and can not get better than the adopter must agree to euthanize.

[Coreene]

Part of coming onto a public BB for suggestions means there is a chance you will not agree with everything suggested, and not everyone will have read each and every one of your posts before taking the time to respond to you. That does not give you an excuse to be rude. So she didn't see you had already told you friend about the rescue - did that really warrant bitchiness?

[Parrotnutz]

Part of coming onto a public BB for suggestions means there is a chance you will not agree with everything suggested, and not everyone will have read each and every one of your posts before taking the time to respond to you. That does not give you an excuse to be rude. So she didn't see you had already told you friend about the rescue - did that really warrant bitchiness?

My apologies....I have seen way worse bitchiness on this board which is why I generally stick to my parrot lists....no one posts anonymously like here. It kind of levels the playing field when it comes to being bitchy when people actually know who you are :)

Some have posted some really helpful suggestions which I am passing along. A Big Thank You.....but some don't seem to have read what I have posted in several places throughout this thread and that gets frustrating. Perhaps everyone should read every post in a thread Before responding....would save many misunderstandings.



The horse is not sound, is not going to come sound...etc etc. I would not have posted here except I thought maybe I would get some "sound" suggestions or may be get lucky.

No One is trying to pass on the "problem" The owner is way more responsible than most.

The owner did not ask me to post....I was the dreamer....mea culpa

[pines4equines]

Hay... if the owner...

Parrotnutz said: "No One is trying to pass on the "problem" The owner is way more responsible than most."

Good for the owner! Yeah, finally! Then do check into the retirement boarding. You can find inexpensive ones. My friend who is an excellent horse woman does inexpensive retirement board in Montana. It's in the Bitteroot region so it's not as cold as you'd think MT would be. She recently moved from our area, Goshen NY to Montana to retire and is doing a super business in boarding retirees from the east coast.

Just PM me if your friend is interested and I'll give you her e-mail.

[Rienzi]

It's difficult to give specific suggestions without knowing more about the case. Perhaps you could be specific. Is he sore at the canter and won't take his right lead? or Fine at the walk but gimpy at the trot? or Hobbles like his foot is falling off just to get to his water bucket?
How long has he been this way?
What kind of care/maintenance is he getting right now?
Is he good with other horses? With kids? Is he patient? Flighty? Nice to work around?

You are good to try to help.

[Coreene]

Parrotz, understand completely where you are coming and it is very kind for you to help your friend like this. But it was the same for people making suggestions, whether or not they had read it all closely. Good luck to her, it is a very rough spot to be in.

[Ambrey]

What people are trying to say is that no matter what "option" comes available, the nuts and bolts of it is that it's passing the problem on.

Navicular isn't a stable disease, it is degenerative. So by passing a horse that is already very lame onto someone else, you are passing on not an asset but a responsibility. You're saying "my friend doesn't want the responsibility of caring for this horse as he needs to be cared for now, and wants to find someone who will take it over."

Is he OK for a lesson horse? Even if he is for now, how long? And then what? Same for therapy horses. What are THOSE people going to do with him when he's no longer useable? And it's not a matter of if, but of when- and not a long, long time either.

Is he OK as a pasture pet? Maybe, but for how long? Then is the person going to have him medicated to keep him comfortable? Or are they going to leave him out in the pasture in pain for 20 years? Will they put him down when it's needed?

That's the point- this horse is no longer of value, he is a liability and that's what your friend is looking to pass on. Are there people willing to take that on? Yes, because they care for horses and understand that there are many, many horses whose owners no longer want to deal with them once they can no longer server their purpose. Unfortunately, there are more liability horses out there than there are people willing to take them on.

[BEARCAT]

Having recently had to retire my 13 year old due to arthritis in 1 knee, I can sympathize.
I too agonized over what to do with him, posted here in the giveways (and got absolutely no takers), posted for suggestions on retirement homes (and got some nasty posts also - as well as some friendly PMs on potential places), before finally finding a solution.
He is turned out on 40 acres 5 miles from my house. I too dreaded not knowing what would happen to him and was afraid of a terrible fate for him down the road.
Yes, I had to sacrifice.
I ended up trading some tack and a pony for pasture board for now.
Board will be around $125/month, so that requires some sacrifice as well.
I too wanted another horse to compete (and got one - OTTB)

What I am trying to say is that there may be solutions out there for your friend. Keep looking around, talk to as many people as you can.
IMO, sending an unsound horse where you won't have contact with the new owners could be a recipe for disaster. What if they come to financial hardship, etc. Then the horse might well end up starving...

[Parrotnutz]

What people are trying to say is that no matter what "option" comes available, the nuts and bolts of it is that it's passing the problem on.

Navicular isn't a stable disease, it is degenerative. So by passing a horse that is already very lame onto someone else, you are passing on not an asset but a responsibility. You're saying "my friend doesn't want the responsibility of caring for this horse as he needs to be cared for now, and wants to find someone who will take it over."

Is he OK for a lesson horse? Even if he is for now, how long? And then what? Same for therapy horses. What are THOSE people going to do with him when he's no longer useable? And it's not a matter of if, but of when- and not a long, long time either.

Is he OK as a pasture pet? Maybe, but for how long? Then is the person going to have him medicated to keep him comfortable? Or are they going to leave him out in the pasture in pain for 20 years? Will they put him down when it's needed?

That's the point- this horse is no longer of value, he is a liability and that's what your friend is looking to pass on. Are there people willing to take that on? Yes, because they care for horses and understand that there are many, many horses whose owners no longer want to deal with them once they can no longer server their purpose. Unfortunately, there are more liability horses out there than there are people willing to take them on.


Ambrey.....I totally agree with your post.
Let me start by saying....I, having worked in the veterinary field, know exactly what a navicular diagnosis entails. This horse does not have classic navicular...in fact his radiographs are perfect....it is a navicular bursa problem diagnosed via MRI. The bursa is basically full of debris and the tendon attached had been torn and now is full of scar tissue. This is not a new injury, I repeat.....someone was able to mask the problem and pass it on via a sale. Most likely he was nerved, as there are scars, but not in the conventional place....so these were not seen until he was shaved.
He walks sound.....period.

I only posted in a last ditch effort to maybe find a companion home as I was lucky enough to find for a horse 20 years ago. And I was able to visit also.
We now live in different times.

So Thanks to all who were nice enough to give recommendations...I have sent them all on. I have done what I can do and now it is up to the owner, my friend, to decide what she will do. It is a tough spot to be in,

[Evalee Hunter]

. . . . This is not a new injury, I repeat.....someone was able to mask the problem and pass it on via a sale. Most likely he was nerved, as there are scars, but not in the conventional place....so these were not seen until he was shaved.
He walks sound.....period. . . .

Well, you sound like you are "done" with this thread, but if you happen to read this, could you answer another question? I did read the posts & did not see this addressed, although I could have missed it: Could the horse be nerved again to keep it comfortable? I am NOT advocating nerving the horse to sell it or nerving it so it can carry the current owner over jumpes - I would think both would be a bad idea. However, it might be the horse could be used for a while walking (& maybe trotting) as a therapy horse or some other light riding job if it were comfortable. It might even be better for the horse to be comfortable even in a companion home.

I do want to point out that lots & lots of the people on this board use their "real" names & many who use a screen name sign their real names at the end of posts.

[Thomas_1]

^ I wanted to point out the absurdity of someone called Parrotnutz criticising folks for posting anonymously! ;)

[minnie]

Isn't it interesting that when something like Norcrest happens, people say "why didn't she just ask for help"? And there have been several other occasions where starvation or neglect have happened that people on this board said "if only they'd asked for help. The people on COTH can move mountains to make things happen on behalf of a needy horse(s)". Well, Parrotnutz asked for help for her friend and along with a couple helpful suggestions she's been lectured, derided and castigated for asking. One person's "liability" could be another person's treasure. Not everyone who loves and wants horses ride. Some people just like taking care of them.

'So by passing a horse that is already very lame onto someone else, you are passing on not an asset but a responsibility. You're saying "my friend doesn't want the responsibility of caring for this horse as he needs to be cared for now, and wants to find someone who will take it over."

I don't think that's what she's saying at all. She's ready to take on the responsibility of having the horse euthanized, but what the hell is the harm of at least ASKING if there's someone who could give him a shot at a good home as a companion animal or even just a loved pet?

I've got a 6 year old thoroughbred gelding in my backyard, with a knee as big as a grapefruit. He's lame at the trot, barely noticeable hitch in his stride at the walk as he hikes his shoulder a little higher and sound as a dollar at canter/gallop. Obviously not in much pain considering the running, bucking, rearing, sliding stops I observe in the pasture. He lives out 24/7 with no special needs, but I guess he's a liability, not an asset, as he's currently not rideable. He's also affectionate, mischievous and into everything. In short, he's a happy healthy horse except for his knee and he makes me laugh every single day. I love him to death. However, due to circumstances beyond my control I can no longer keep him, so next month he will also probably be euthanized. I would give just about anything to find someone who could/would give him a home where he could have a chance at a good life with someone who loves him, so I can certainly understand where ParrotNutz's friend was coming from . Kudos to those of you who offered helpful suggestions.

[wendy]

it's the old "animals are disposable" problem. the owner of this horse doesn't want a living, breathing partner, they want a mechanism to carry them around through particular types of sports. think long and hard before you obtain a living, breathing, feeling, thinking animal for ONLY a specific purpose cause it will let you down at some point or other; only obtain an animal if you want a true partnership. The horse can't jump, or hates jumping, well, what else can you do with your buddy? maybe you can be champions at dressage, or deeply enjoy vaulting together, who knows, go with it and see what happens. If you need to ease the animals passing then do so but not because it's just an irritation to you. I guess that applies to any relationship with any living being. If you can't do it maybe you should get into motorcycle racing or something where you can happily dispose/fix the damaged mechanism and get on with your ambitions.

[Parrotnutz]

^ I wanted to point out the absurdity of someone called Parrotnutz criticising folks for posting anonymously! ;)

LOL...cute....but if y'all read...my signature does also include my name....Adriane AKA "NUTZ" to those who know me. :D

[Parrotnutz]

Isn't it interesting that when something like Norcrest happens, people say "why didn't she just ask for help"? And there have been several other occasions where starvation or neglect have happened that people on this board said "if only they'd asked for help. The people on COTH can move mountains to make things happen on behalf of a needy horse(s)". Well, Parrotnutz asked for help for her friend and along with a couple helpful suggestions she's been lectured, derided and castigated for asking. One person's "liability" could be another person's treasure. Not everyone who loves and wants horses ride. Some people just like taking care of them.

'So by passing a horse that is already very lame onto someone else, you are passing on not an asset but a responsibility. You're saying "my friend doesn't want the responsibility of caring for this horse as he needs to be cared for now, and wants to find someone who will take it over."

I don't think that's what she's saying at all. She's ready to take on the responsibility of having the horse euthanized, but what the hell is the harm of at least ASKING if there's someone who could give him a shot at a good home as a companion animal or even just a loved pet?




THANK YOU.......rather than just "get rid of him" she will see him humanely euthanized. She will not live with thinking he may go somewhere and then wind up as meat or starving.

This horse is basically finished as far as a riding career. I am sure most on here do ride their horses. I cannot blame a girl in her 30's for wanting to continue her dream of riding......and she has spent <she was smart enough to take out insurance> a lot more than most on finding the causes of his lamness when there is an auction about 20 minutes from where we board. Many would have already been there.

This is not a horse who is happy to sit in a stall and where we are ....NJ.... the expense of QUALITY pasture board comes at a premium price.

He is a handsome pleasant fellow so I "thought" posting for ideas might bring some.....again.....Thanks to those who understand and have given ideas

[Parrotnutz]

it's the old "animals are disposable" problem. the owner of this horse doesn't want a living, breathing partner, they want a mechanism to carry them around through particular types of sports. think long and hard before you obtain a living, breathing, feeling, thinking animal for ONLY a specific purpose cause it will let you down at some point or other; only obtain an animal if you want a true partnership. The horse can't jump, or hates jumping, well, what else can you do with your buddy? maybe you can be champions at dressage, or deeply enjoy vaulting together, who knows, go with it and see what happens. If you need to ease the animals passing then do so but not because it's just an irritation to you. I guess that applies to any relationship with any living being. If you can't do it maybe you should get into motorcycle racing or something where you can happily dispose/fix the damaged mechanism and get on with your ambitions.

AAHHH was this entire post of yours aimed at me friend's situation??
This horse is certainly no irritation......
Or was this just a way of getting out your frustrations on how animals in general are treated?

[Parrotnutz]

Well, you sound like you are "done" with this thread, but if you happen to read this, could you answer another question? I did read the posts & did not see this addressed, although I could have missed it: Could the horse be nerved again to keep it comfortable? I am NOT advocating nerving the horse to sell it or nerving it so it can carry the current owner over jumpes - I would think both would be a bad idea. However, it might be the horse could be used for a while walking (& maybe trotting) as a therapy horse or some other light riding job if it were comfortable. It might even be better for the horse to be comfortable even in a companion home.

I do want to point out that lots & lots of the people on this board use their "real" names & many who use a screen name sign their real names at the end of posts.

Wanted to answer you. Yes the horse could be nerved again.....but...you can only nerve so many times and with tendon issues going up the back of the foot it would not guarrantee him sound. Plus the added issues of a nerved horse feels nothing so if there is another hoof issue going on one may not know. Once the nerving would wear off anyone who owns him would have the same problem....it would be prolonging the inevitable.
Therapy places have already been contacted :(

[lolalola]

As a long-time volunteer and board member of a well-known therapeutic riding facility, I would like to correct one misconception that is encountered on this and other boards quite often. What almost every therapeutic riding organization is looking for are quiet, school-horse types. They are not generally interested in taking in lame horses that can't do anything. Yes, some horses are good for students to learn grooming, tacking, etc., but most therapeutic organizations already have an old-timer they can't use in their program for that purpose. So, if you know of a horse that needs a home, ask yourself, "Could this horse work in a low-level (able-bodied) lesson program?" If the answer is no, they aren't going to be suitable for most therapeutic programs either.

[Ambrey]

I don't think that's what she's saying at all. She's ready to take on the responsibility of having the horse euthanized, but what the hell is the harm of at least ASKING if there's someone who could give him a shot at a good home as a companion animal or even just a loved pet?

Sorry, but if what he needs is a retirement home, euthanizing him is just another out. If he's pasture sound, I'm not quite sure how you can argue around that ethical dilemma-if he is a horse that is fine as long as he isn't required to work, there is only one reason the owner would euth him, and that's because she doesn't want to pay for his long term care.

Believe it or not, I'm not saying this in indignant self righteousness. It's simply reality- the owner does.not.want to take responsibility for caring for a horse that can't work. The OP is hoping she can find someone who will. But in the absence of that miracle that parrotnutz was hoping for, the ethical dilemma is still there.

The $$ vs life dilemma for pet animals is one that people go through all the time. I think we have a bit harder time with it when it involves a situation like this than, say, a very expensive surgery, but the dilemma is really the same.

[SMF11]

I third the retirement board option. I am sure you can find places that are MUCH cheaper than New Jersey, which might make not euthanizing him financially feasible.

Another idea I haven't seen is to offer to pay vet and shoeing bills for him. I took one of my trainer's school horses when he could no longer be ridden under just this arrangement.

It is always worth asking, but don't underestimate the number of horses looking for companion homes. When I said I was looking for a companion horse I was INNUNDATED -- people emailing, calling, leaving notes in my mailbox etc etc. I ended up taking my trainer's horse primarily because I loved him but it didn't hurt that she picked up his bills.

[SquishTheBunny]

How much is board that your friend is currently paying? Would it be reasonable to find a place to pasture board BOTH horses? Usually pasture is 1/2 the cost of indoor board. I have horses who are showing competitively on the A circuit who live happily on pasture. May be an option to keep 2.

I think if you can find someone to lease the horse as a pasture pal but I would be leary to give up ownership in this economy. Euthanizing should be a later resort. Has she tried contacting some horse rescues?

[Parrotnutz]

Sorry, but if what he needs is a retirement home, euthanizing him is just another out. If he's pasture sound, I'm not quite sure how you can argue around that ethical dilemma-if he is a horse that is fine as long as he isn't required to work, there is only one reason the owner would euth him, and that's because she doesn't want to pay for his long term care.

Believe it or not, I'm not saying this in indignant self righteousness. It's simply reality- the owner does.not.want to take responsibility for caring for a horse that can't work. The OP is hoping she can find someone who will. But in the absence of that miracle that parrotnutz was hoping for, the ethical dilemma is still there.

The $$ vs life dilemma for pet animals is one that people go through all the time. I think we have a bit harder time with it when it involves a situation like this than, say, a very expensive surgery, but the dilemma is really the same.

Actually, No, the reason she would rather see him euthanized is because that would be better than getting him a new home to only find out he later was shipped to a auction/killer. You can write up all the contracts you want but in all reality to get him a new home he would most probably have to go out of state. What happens if the "retirement" place goes under? I have heard horror stories about supposeded retirement places who take the money but get rid of the horse. How would one know without constantly going out there?

Unfortunately with horses the $$$ versus life dilemma is very real because we cannot house them with us....and those that can know how expensive it is.

Living with 4 of my 6 parrots being second hand birds due to various reasons from original owners and 2 puppy mill dogs with issues I so get where you are coming from.....But there is no black and white.

Adriane AKA parrotnutz

[Parrotnutz]

How much is board that your friend is currently paying? Would it be reasonable to find a place to pasture board BOTH horses? Usually pasture is 1/2 the cost of indoor board. I have horses who are showing competitively on the A circuit who live happily on pasture. May be an option to keep 2.

I think if you can find someone to lease the horse as a pasture pal but I would be leary to give up ownership in this economy. Euthanizing should be a later resort. Has she tried contacting some horse rescues?

As far as I know she just contacted a horse rescue person who posted here...I believe she was emailing her but I will not know anything for awhile because she works a 12 hour day today........

[Ambrey]

Actually, No, the reason she would rather see him euthanized is because that would be better than getting him a new home to only find out he later was shipped to a auction/killer. You can write up all the contracts you want but in all reality to get him a new home he would most probably have to go out of state. What happens if the "retirement" place goes under? I have heard horror stories about supposeded retirement places who take the money but get rid of the horse. How would one know without constantly going out there?

Sorry, what I meant was that both are an out to the only solution that doesn't involve ethical compromise, which is to find him a retirement home and support him forever.

You're right, the "retirement homes" that offer too-good-to-be-true pricing are probably risky. Caring for him for the rest of his life is going to be expensive. Any "option" that promises a free ride likely has a catch.

I know someone who hit this dilemma with a new kitten and ended up spending $16,000 on a kidney transplant (did you know they did that for kittens? lol!). It's totally real. But the reason it's a dilemma is that the consequences for the animal in question are also real- this horse is going to lose his life because nobody wants to pay to keep him alive if he can't perform a service.

[Thomas_1]

THANK YOU.......rather than just "get rid of him" she will see him humanely euthanized. She will not live with thinking he may go somewhere and then wind up as meat or starving.

This horse is basically finished as far as a riding career. I am sure most on here do ride their horses. I cannot blame a girl in her 30's for wanting to continue her dream of riding......and she has spent <she was smart enough to take out insurance> a lot more than most on finding the causes of his lamness when there is an auction about 20 minutes from where we board. Many would have already been there.

This is not a horse who is happy to sit in a stall and where we are ....NJ.... the expense of QUALITY pasture board comes at a premium price.

He is a handsome pleasant fellow so I "thought" posting for ideas might bring some.....again.....Thanks to those who understand and have given ideas

Well I've seriously lost the plot with this thread. You weren't saying earlier that the horse was "finished as a riding horse". Indeed you even suggested it might recover sufficiently and "He "may" be sound enough to trail ride...."

I know I frequently come to appreciate that the USA and the UK are divided by a common language but this thread makes me want to clarify that euthanasia means the same in your world as it does in mine: You do mean euthanasia as in killing? :yes: How the heck isn't that "getting rid of him". It sounds pretty final to me in terms of disposing of the horse!!

I can't be doing with all this emotional claptrap about the poor owner not wanting to see him going to a meat plant or starving to death. If she took care of the horse and accepted responsibility and provided him with what he needs then he wouldn't! It's dead simple!

Likewise I don't feel a single ounce of empathy or understanding for the owner because she hasn't got a horse to compete with. We're told she can't afford to do what is necessary for this horse. We're told she didn't buy this one for much money. We're told she's scratting around to pass the problem on to someone else so she can start over again. Well I'm sorry but I think owning a horse is a privilege and a responsibility. It's not a right and it's not a throw away commodity and it sounds to me like she's not up to the responsibility of owning a horse nor deserving of the privilege.

Having a horse and taking full responsibility of it is an expensive lifestyle choice. Heck we're talking about a 30 something in the western world who fancies a luxury expensive hobby! We're not talking some poor sod in the third world who has to have a horse that works to make a living! It's expensive NO MATTER where you live. If you can't afford QUALITY pasture board for the duration of a horse's life, then IMO you shouldn't have a horse at all.

Ok 1 more time....
This horse has not been lame only 3 months...he went lame 3 months after purchase. MRI shows a long standing problem...as witnessed by calcification and scare tissue...old tendon tear, etc. The horse most likely had been nerved and purchaser not told...Nerving only lasts so long. And what happens if the same happens again to the owner? Or else what if a year after she's got the shiney new horse it slips and injures itself and is unsound for a few months. Presumably she won't be able to afford to do what is necessary then either and will need to throw the next one out and find another sparkly nice new one.

I'd have more regard for the owner's situation were you to say that she's prepared to fund say the cost of keep for a year or to guarantee the cost of veterinary costs. But oh no that isn't what is happening here. It's just another horse being treated as a commodity.

I know you're hoping to find someone to take on the problem and I know there's folks willing to do that. I've even got horses myself that I've picked up responsibility for because I feel sorry for the horse. But I don't feel sorry for the owner and I told them the same as I've said here.

This is a bulletin board and as such it's my understanding that it exists to voice opinion on all things equine. It's not just there for folks to tout around for opinions they want and to "advertise" cheap broken horses.

[imapepper]

This horse is basically finished as far as a riding career. I am sure most on here do ride their horses. I cannot blame a girl in her 30's for wanting to continue her dream of riding......and she has spent <she was smart enough to take out insurance> a lot more than most on finding the causes of his lamness when there is an auction about 20 minutes from where we board. Many would have already been there.

If she has insured him, there is usually a "loss of use" coverage where the insurance will pay out the value of the horse if he is not sound.....only problem with that is that you have to surrender the horse to the insurance company....who will most likely put him down. Just curious if she had researched that option....often they will give an option of a reduced payout or allow you to "buy" back the horse to retire it.

[bridgetah1]

If she has insured him, there is usually a "loss of use" coverage where the insurance will pay out the value of the horse if he is not sound.....only problem with that is that you have to surrender the horse to the insurance company....who will most likely put him down.

Most likely, they'll send him to auction.

[pines4equines]

Thomas 1 said: "...And what happens if the same happens again to the owner? Or else what if a year after she's got the shiney new horse it slips and injures itself and is unsound for a few months. Presumably she won't be able to afford to do what is necessary then either and will need to throw the next one out and find another sparkly nice new one..."

Yes, there's never any money to retire a horse decently but there's always money to go out and show a new one. I can never figure this one out.

I too have a horse that was ditched with us for a shiny new one. I'm left to help this poor beast out while the owner trollops around on a new one at the A-circuit until that is unsound. I too believe in some sort of responsibility.

I'm not trashing OP, just tired of all the owners of freebie horses out there that no one wants...because.they.can't.ride.them....

[Ambrey]

This thread is so interesting. I was just considering it over my toasting bagel, and this is what I came up with.

Owning animals is full of ethical dilemmas. We couch them in terms that make us feel better. In this case, "saving the horse from possible pain down the road" is how the OP and owner are justifying putting him to sleep, but really they are avoiding facing the reality of the situation.

In truth, animals are often euthanized for their owner's convenience or financial hardship. Nobody could live with themselves if they admitted that, so we call it something else. We come up with less savory options and then pat ourselves on the back for not choosing those, all the while pushing aside the concept that there were also better options that we didn't choose because they didn't fit in well with our lifestyles.

I think there are angels on this board who have always done the right thing by horses, but I'm guessing in the horse world they are far outnumbered by the ranks of those who have made decisions that favored their pocketbooks over the long-term happiness of an animal who was going to be of limited use to them. And I've never done so with a horse, but I do have in mind a 13 year old 3 legged cat with stomach cancer who I refused expensive long-term treatment for- I convince myself that it was because I didn't want to put him through that, but would I have given it a try if it had been free? Probably. So I'm not putting myself in the "angel" group.

[Lieslot]

I hope this horse ends up well one way or another.
It's sad as others already mentioned that owners of freebies haven't got the financial resources for pasture board, yet do have the $'s for a new horse.
It always makes me kind of sad thinking of a horse that's been written off as a redundant piece fo furniture coz its health isn't up for the owners goals anymore.

Would the owner not be happy to retire the fella on a cheaper board arrangment and then look into leasing a horse she can advance her jumping carreer with? I can understand she might not be able to afford retirement board & a new horse board, but perhaps she may want to consider this before totally giving up on this horse. I take it there is not even the slightest chance of improvement by the sounds of it. Navicular as such doesn't have to be a death sentence, my TB had it, but we kept him sound. And sometimes vets can be quick to say no chance. When my WB tore his collateral we were told 50% change of pasture sound, well... he's 100% riding sound.

Euthanasia will sadly be the preferred route from what I hear, but in my book I'd personally only consider euthanasia if the horse had no quality of live anymore. And it doesn't sound like this is the case for this horse.

I do feel for the owner to some extent, as she's might have been scammed upon buying the horse, but then that's part and partial of horse ownership. And even if the horse had been perfectly sound with no history, an injury can easily happen and render the horse unsuitable for the sport, then what?

[Parrotnutz]

QUOTE::Well I've seriously lost the plot with this thread. You weren't saying earlier that the horse was "finished as a riding horse". Indeed you even suggested it might recover sufficiently>>>>

My Bad....I should have said finished as a "sport horse". And if you read my very first post the "may" come sound is in quotes. It would be a big Maybe...very big....may stay sound to trail walk......

Why shoot the messenger?? I have repeatly posted that it was MY idea to post here, Not hers......Did you ever stop and think I posted for the sake of the Horse????????????
I have no vested interest in this horse. Be as it may, regardless of how many times you all beat the dead horse the owner is going to do what she is going to do.....that's life. I took it upon myself to post here to maybe give her some more options.

And no one should ASS-UME this is what I would do and I am far from justifying putting him down....not going to go through all the posts to see who said that. What I would do with my horses does not come into play here.....Again this is about the Horse.

Perhaps if I had posted this was a CANTER horse and it was going to be killed by Thurs y'all would have moved heaven and earth to get it??? So what is the difference between dispoable race horses and disposable show horses? That an actual person posted here is the only difference I see. Race trainers and owners have rescues do their dirty work....Don't get me started...its another thread :eek:

As for loss of use insurance....most people who insure their horses do not have lose of use...it is way expensive, like mucho. It is for the rich and famous. The average person gets mortality and major medical.

Ok...who wants to be the next to beat me for trying to "get rid" of this horse??????? Hay, I own and ride a 17 hand bitchy mare and I LUV her so bring it on :D <for those with sticks up their butts this is a joke:disclaimer>
Of course her I finesse...I would never beat my precious poopsy itty witty teeny beeenie mare

[jn4jenny]

Perhaps if I had posted this was a CANTER horse and it was going to be killed by Thurs y'all would have moved heaven and earth to get it??? So what is the difference between dispoable race horses and disposable show horses? That an actual person posted here is the only difference I see. Race trainers and owners have rescues do their dirty work....Don't get me started...its another thread :eek:

Dude, seriously. The more times you reply to this thread, the more I think you might be a little crazy. Do you *really* care what all these strangers think of you? And do you *really* think that bitching, ranting, and raving is going to cause everyone to suddenly do a 180 in behavior and opinion?

There IS a huge difference between a "disposable" race horse and the horse in question on this thread, namely that the race horse is usually sound for future work. Even when it's not sound for future work, it's usually an unquestionable case of "someone takes this horse or it goes to auction and from auction to slaughter". You've made it very clear that the horse in question here is NOT on the fast track to slaughter. Totally different situation.

If I were you, I'd step back and ask yourself what your goal is for this thread from this point forward. Are you going to continue to defend yourself against what is clearly a very strong majority opinion? Are you going to let yourself get PO'ed about other people's lack of reading comprehension skills?

FWIW, I'll throw in another opinion on top of my first one: Some people seem to think that horses have a "right to life" if the horse is pasture sound. Despite what some horse owners like to think, that is not an objective Fact of the Universe. It's a product of human sympathy and anthropomorphism. Many of the horses that we consider pasture sound would be taken by predators in the wild, yet because we love them/care about them/impose our human concepts of life and death on them, they get to live out many years in captivity. And in 99% of cases, that means WAY more to the owner than it does to the horse. If that gives the owner peace, then that's wonderful and it was the right decision for the owner. But for other owners, what would give them peace would be seeing their partner meet a dignified, quiet, humane end at home and giving their money and time to another horse. And who are the rest of us to judge or second-guess that unless the horse is in danger of mistreatment or misery?

[SuperSTB]

FWIW, I'll throw in another opinion on top of my first one: Some people seem to think that horses have a "right to life" if the horse is pasture sound. Despite what some horse owners like to think, that is not an objective Fact of the Universe. It's a product of human sympathy and anthropomorphism. Many of the horses that we consider pasture sound would be taken by predators in the wild, yet because we love them/care about them/impose our human concepts of life and death on them, they get to live out many years in captivity. And in 99% of cases, that means WAY more to the owner than it does to the horse. If that gives the owner peace, then that's wonderful and it was the right decision for the owner. But for other owners, what would give them peace would be seeing their partner meet a dignified, quiet, humane end at home and giving their money and time to another horse. And who are the rest of us to judge or second-guess that unless the horse is in danger of mistreatment or misery?

A-feaking-MEN!

I've seen some gems of posts today on COTH :)

I have sympathy for horse owner- been there, have the t-shirt. It is certainly no easy position to be in that's for sure. It's only normal to want to exhaust all options to keep the horse around. Unfortunetly in this environment- it's sooooo difficult.

When it comes to euthanizing- I don't think as responsible horse owners we actually do the 'deed' enough. Horses just don't understand and let me tell you- while it's a tough emotional decision to make- in a certain sense there is a bit of relief that affords most of us. I know with Hope- we held on until she wasn't comfortable anymore. I could have gone through all the motions to try and bring her around again but then I thought long and hard about it... *who* am I actually doing it for? She's not going to understand that on a certain day the vet will show up and that's the end. No, that's something *we* think about. Meanwhile I'm supporting a animal that really has little chance and depriving a good home to some animal out there who really has a shot in life. Now I've got a wonderful 3yo (okay he's a nut but hey!) with a long life ahead of him in her place. I miss her and think about her but it was a *relief* to put her down, grieve, and move on.

[Parrotnutz]

Dude, seriously. The more times you reply to this thread, the more I think you might be a little crazy. Do you *really* care what all these strangers think of you? And do you *really* think that bitching, ranting, and raving is going to cause everyone to suddenly do a 180 in behavior and opinion?

There IS a huge difference between a "disposable" race horse and the horse in question on this thread, namely that the race horse is usually sound for future work. Even when it's not sound for future work, it's usually an unquestionable case of "someone takes this horse or it goes to auction and from auction to slaughter". You've made it very clear that the horse in question here is NOT on the fast track to slaughter. Totally different situation.

If I were you, I'd step back and ask yourself what your goal is for this thread from this point forward. Are you going to continue to defend yourself against what is clearly a very strong majority opinion? Are you going to let yourself get PO'ed about other people's lack of reading comprehension skills?

FWIW, I'll throw in another opinion on top of my first one: Some people seem to think that horses have a "right to life" if the horse is pasture sound. Despite what some horse owners like to think, that is not an objective Fact of the Universe. It's a product of human sympathy and anthropomorphism. Many of the horses that we consider pasture sound would be taken by predators in the wild, yet because we love them/care about them/impose our human concepts of life and death on them, they get to live out many years in captivity. And in 99% of cases, that means WAY more to the owner than it does to the horse. If that gives the owner peace, then that's wonderful and it was the right decision for the owner. But for other owners, what would give them peace would be seeing their partner meet a dignified, quiet, humane end at home and giving their money and time to another horse. And who are the rest of us to judge or second-guess that unless the horse is in danger of mistreatment or misery?



ROFLMAO.......Normally I would have posted and after seeing some of the replies I would have wandered away shaking my head.
But....my mother is in CCU so inbetween visiting hours this posting has taken my mind off her for a few minutes. Say to yourself.....Do you really think I give a rat's a** what posters think of me? Naw......but it has been a good diversion from my "real" life...so if that makes me a little crazy...well yeah, right now I may well be.

Loved your opinion by the way....Amen.....Thanks for your post I truly enjoyed it.

[Speedy]

Keep in mind that giving a horse away free to a good home isn't always a great solution. There are actually people out there that will agree to take the horse for free, offer to retire it for you on their lovely farm, and then sell it at auction 3 days later for a few cents a pound. A little extra spending money...easy to get and frequently replenished through the give away forums.

Retirement facilities that are outside of your area can also be problematic. If you aren't regularly checking up on your retired horse, you really have no idea how the horse is being treated, or even if its being fed. The number of retirement farms NOT providing services for which they are being paid is increasing as the economy worsens. I wouldn't consider a retirement facility for my own horses unless it was within an easy drive of my home.

So, for me, the reality is this - if the horse can't do what the owner wants it to do, and the owner doesn't want to pay for the horse to live in a reputable, close retirement facility, then putting the horse down is probably the best possible outcome for the horse, because he is far more likely to have a good end at the hands of a good vet, than he will if he goes to auction or starves for months on end (and don't even get me started on the long trip he'll end up taking to Mexico if he goes to auction). The ethics of putting a horse down when he outlives his usefulness is an interesting topic for intellectual debate - but at the end of the day - you have to ask where and how the horse will end up and I would rather see him humanely euthanized any day of the week.

[tpup]

Here's my answer. Put yourself in the horse's shoes. Call me old-fashioned but he deserves a chance....a bit more than "well he can't do what I want him to do, so let's euthanize." Wow. If that were my horse I'd be busting my a** trying to find a home for it...maturely, as a responsible adult - in state, out of state - calling vets. There are options. You can find good people out there. Why be so negative? a.e. "Oh he'll end up going to auction anyway even if someone offers to take him as a pasture buddy??" Not the case usually.

[chaltagor]

Many of the horses that we consider pasture sound would be taken by predators in the wild, yet because we love them/care about them/impose our human concepts of life and death on them, they get to live out many years in captivity. And in 99% of cases, that means WAY more to the owner than it does to the horse. If that gives the owner peace, then that's wonderful and it was the right decision for the owner.

What? If we didn't vaccinate them then diseases would get them too. What do predators have to do with it? Straw man.

It's an ethical question: Are we justified in destroying an animal because it doesn't fit in with our lifestyle? Because it's an inconvenience? The type of person who feels peace by destroying an animal that they could care for but didn't want to is not ethical nor moral.

[Parrotnutz]

In my opinion if you buy a horse, you are responsible for making sure the horse is being taken care of for the rest of it's life. Unless you can pass this horse onto someone else for free who will take care of him, you are responsible. Putting him down in my opinion is a horrible thing to do. How would you like to be put down because you are injured? Before purchasing a horse these are things to consider- if the horse goes lame, can I afford him and another horse? If not then don't buy a horse. I can't even believe euthanization was a consideration here. The horse is pasture sound and can be used as a companion horse. End of story!

Go back and count up how many people said "put him down". Yup he very well could be a companion horse......No takers, only accusations that "the owner wants to get rid of the problem". Well life sucks and yes she wants to get rid of the problem.....if she wants to help out financially I do not know. Haven't asked her since there have been no offers I can present to her.

Repeating for the 4th time...it was my idea to post here, not hers, and except for finding the reactions very, very interesting there were only a few really good suggestions.

I think by now this thread has morphed into a philisophical discussion for most.

[pandorasboxx]

It's a horse not Aunt Sally or Grandmama. If it is only sound for a pasture ornament and the owner cannot or will not afford the possibly years of board and care without having a riding horse, there is absolutely nothing wrong with euthanasia. The horse doesn't know or care. It only cares if it isn't fed or is mistreated and putting it down is a very humane and practical option if all other practical ones have be exhausted.

While you are very kind to try and help your friend out, I really think the best possible route is euthanasia if she really wants to make sure the horse has the proper end without all the scary possibilities that lie in sending it even to a nice family. Who knows what bind that family may find themselves in one day and where the horse would eventually end?

There is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting another horse to compete with and going out and purchasing one. If your friend takes good care of her horses with a nice place to live, good feed, vet and farrier care and reasonable exercise then all horses should be so lucky.

I commend you for trying to find an alternative for your friend and hopefully one will arise.

[nlk]

I would recommend trying Rolling Rock Rescue out of Wisconsin. They have a great website and either keep the horse for life if they can't be placed or adopt them out. They check on all their adopted horse several times a year and if they are not being cared for up to their standards they take them back. A lot of the horses are ones who are used for pasture pals or grandparents who have a horse for the grandkids to groom etc. when they come over. Also they will look into and provide care that will make them comfortable if possible. They do ask for a small donation to help keep the facility running. I have a girl friend who donated her horse who had EPM and gets up dates on him and has found a great home. I don't agree necessarily with what she did but it worked for her!

[Ambrey]

Go back and count up how many people said "put him down". Yup he very well could be a companion horse......No takers, only accusations that "the owner wants to get rid of the problem". Well life sucks and yes she wants to get rid of the problem.....if she wants to help out financially I do not know. Haven't asked her since there have been no offers I can present to her.

Repeating for the 4th time...it was my idea to post here, not hers, and except for finding the reactions very, very interesting there were only a few really good suggestions.

I think by now this thread has morphed into a philisophical discussion for most.

I think it was always a philosophical discussion. No, there are no takers- as is the case for MOST of the horses like that. Maybe that's because the people who have extra space are using it for the horses that are being forced to live in awful conditions, not those who are going to get a peaceful death. Check out the Freebies board- always lots of interest in the horses that can work, very seldom any interest in the pasture puffs.

[minnie]

You can't project human emotions into a horse. They don't think of the length of time they're on this earth, but rather the quality of life they have while they ARE alive. What do we owe our horses? Good Husbandry. Quality care while they are with us and a quick ending when the time comes. It is not ethically or morally wrong to euthanize a horse. It IS morally and ethically wrong to starve, mistreat, beat or abuse a horse in any way.

[Arcadien]

You can't project human emotions into a horse. They don't think of the length of time they're on this earth, but rather the quality of life they have while they ARE alive. What do we owe our horses? Good Husbandry. Quality care while they are with us and a quick ending when the time comes. It is not ethically or morally wrong to euthanize a horse. It IS morally and ethically wrong to starve, mistreat, beat or abuse a horse in any way.

This summarizes my feelings well. If a good sounding opportunity comes up, great. If not, rather than doubt, a peaceful goodbye is best.

And for whomever it was that asked (sorry, no time now to go back & check name) if this was what I'd want if it were ME in question -

The answer is, unequivocably, YES.

Of course, being human, I can voice what I consider quality of life (for me). Beyond that, I hope someone close will have the mercy to euthanize me (yep, some of us humans do feel that way, big surprise... sigh).

In the case I can't voice my wishes, I've formally chosen someone (and a backup for that someone) in a "Living Will" distributed generously around, to make that decision for me - and yeah, I've chosen those people carefully and they know what I would say if I could say it.

To the OP good luck to your friend finding an acceptable re-homing. If she can't, then sending "stay strong" vibes to you both, in coming to terms with the most humane decision for this guy. (Economy & slaughter laws going as they are, more and more will be facing this decision, and I am sincerely hoping they find the strength to do the right thing, when it comes their time...)

Warm vibes to all, in these sensitive & (for some) difficult times,
Arcadien

[twofatponies]

My worry with the retirement places is that in this economy - or anytime, really - I can't be sure something won't happen there that compromises my horse's care. The owner(s) could hit a financial problem, or have a serious illness or injury, or die. It's all well and good for some to promise "life time care" - but what about unexpected life changes that force them to close their business? Things happen.

Would I be sure to know if that happened, and my horse needed to be "rescued" from the retirement place? If it was miles away and they didn't tell me, I might find out too late that my horse has been neglected, or sent off somewhere else. One of my requirements for a retirement home would be that it is close enough I can check in regularly (in person) to make sure my horse is doing okay.

[Parrotnutz]

This summarizes my feelings well. If a good sounding opportunity comes up, great. If not, rather than doubt, a peaceful goodbye is best.

And for whomever it was that asked (sorry, no time now to go back & check name) if this was what I'd want if it were ME in question -

The answer is, unequivocably, YES.

Of course, being human, I can voice what I consider quality of life (for me). Beyond that, I hope someone close will have the mercy to euthanize me (yep, some of us humans do feel that way, big surprise... sigh).

In the case I can't voice my wishes, I've formally chosen someone (and a backup for that someone) in a "Living Will" distributed generously around, to make that decision for me - and yeah, I've chosen those people carefully and they know what I would say if I could say it.

To the OP good luck to your friend finding an acceptable re-homing. If she can't, then sending "stay strong" vibes to you both, in coming to terms with the most humane decision for this guy. (Economy & slaughter laws going as they are, more and more will be facing this decision, and I am sincerely hoping they find the strength to do the right thing, when it comes their time...)

Warm vibes to all, in these sensitive & (for some) difficult times,
Arcadien

Thanks for the vibes....I will send them on to my friend.

I also have a living will and believe everyone should have one.

And I, also, agree that in these trying times what are many people going to do with their horses and more may just walk in my friend's shoes.

[Parrotnutz]

My worry with the retirement places is that in this economy - or anytime, really - I can't be sure something won't happen there that compromises my horse's care. The owner(s) could hit a financial problem, or have a serious illness or injury, or die. It's all well and good for some to promise "life time care" - but what about unexpected life changes that force them to close their business? Things happen.

Would I be sure to know if that happened, and my horse needed to be "rescued" from the retirement place? If it was miles away and they didn't tell me, I might find out too late that my horse has been neglected, or sent off somewhere else. One of my requirements for a retirement home would be that it is close enough I can check in regularly (in person) to make sure my horse is doing okay.


I agree. I am very active in the Parrot world rehoming issues. There are a group of us that try to put a home and new home together rather than send a bird off to be "warehoused" in a rescue., because who knows how long the rescue may last. This economy is a sad state of affairs

[jn4jenny]

What? If we didn't vaccinate them then diseases would get them too. What do predators have to do with it? Straw man.

It's an ethical question: Are we justified in destroying an animal because it doesn't fit in with our lifestyle? Because it's an inconvenience? The type of person who feels peace by destroying an animal that they could care for but didn't want to is not ethical nor moral.

Vaccination is something that we sometimes do to ensure the horse's health and well being in an artificial environment called captivity. Euthanasia is also something that we sometimes do to ensure the horse's well being in an artificial environment called captivity. We vaccinate because we don't care to have nature take its natural course; we choose euthanasia because we don't care to have nature take its natural course. Sounds like a direct analogy to me, not a straw man.

While you're breaking out rhetorical terms and using them incorrectly, do yourself a favor and look up "warrant". Yours is that animals have some kind of "right to life" in captivity. Do you have some kind of backing for that that's not based on a pathetic or logical fallacy?

I say this as someone who fully intends to retire my horse to pasture when/if he ever becomes unsound. I just don't pretend that it's a matter of me being a bad person or a good person. If anything, it makes me selfish for wanting to keep my horse around for so many more years rather than giving my time and money to another horse in need.

[Giveitwellie]

I wish your friend the best in trying to find him a home. Right now, I would say.. the responsible thing, and the thing in his best interests is to put him to sleep. The economy is horrible, and people are struggling to find homes for Sound, well broke, been there done that showing and winning horses.
Yes it would be nice to think of someone with 250 acres of pasture that just wants to give a home to horses, but right now, even these folks are overflowing with Hay Burners.
A horse doesn't understand the future. He just understands the now, and he remembers the yesterday.. He knows if he's hurting or if he has a belly full of hay.

When we take ownership of them, we are their stewards. As hard as it must be for us, we need to make the best, and most responsible decisions for them. I really hope your friend can find him a pasture retirement home.. But I would say the kindest, and most responsible thing, she could do would be to put him to sleep, while he's still enjoying life and doesn't know distress.

Much strength and hugs to you and your friend.

[chaltagor]

jn, you seemed to infer keeping a horse alive that would be dead in nature is unnatural. No, wait, it's "a product of human sympathy and anthropomorphism." Then so is vaccination? If it's so unnatural. Saying it's wrong to keep a horse alive because it would be dead in nature in a discussion of the ethics of convenience euthansia is a straw man argument.

I never said animals have a right to life. I questioned the ethics of destroying a life if it not "useful" to a human or the current trend in color. I know animals don't know the difference. A person wouldn't either, especially people that were of lesser intelligence or institutionalized against their will.

[SMF11]

People seem to have lost sight of the fact that she's only considering putting this horse down because she can't afford two horses and wants to show.

I don't think anyone would argue against euthanizing a horse that did not have good quality of life. I don't think many would argue against euthanizing a horse where the owner's back was against a wall financially and they had exhausted every option and just could not find a home for the horse, and without a new home the horse would starve.

The difference in this case is that the owner CAN afford to pay for a horse. Just not two.

[pandorasboxx]

People seem to have lost sight of the fact that she's only considering putting this horse down because she can't afford two horses and wants to show.

I don't think anyone would argue against euthanizing a horse that did not have good quality of life. I don't think many would argue against euthanizing a horse where the owner's back was against a wall financially and they had exhausted every option and just could not find a home for the horse, and without a new home the horse would starve.

The difference in this case is that the owner CAN afford to pay for a horse. Just not two.

I never lost sight of this. I don't think it matters. The horse is not sound, not likely to ever be sound, the owner has spent what sounds like a good deal of money trying to rectify the problem and now is in the grip of a decision. She wants a horse she can ride. After all, that is primarily what they are raised for.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting a ride-able horse and if finances are such that she can only afford one at a time, then so be it. It is an acceptable and responsible option to euthanize the horse. If you choose to keep a horse as a pasture pet until the end of its days then that is also an acceptable option but not for everyone.

[Ambrey]

Nobody has lost sight of it. It's just reality- an unsound horse has few fans.

And like many have said, despite our own ethical maneuvering, the horse really doesn't care. One minute he's happily munching hay, the next minute he's galloping along in the afterlife- it's not like he had long-term plans that were interrupted or kids he wanted to see grow up.

[katarine]

OP the giveaways forum is FULL of horses needing homes. Your pal's horse isn't anymore special or neat or deserving than any of them. Expecting some grand solution to bubble up via a posting on COTH is a nice dream, but a poor investment ;)

I have a sweet sweet sweet 14 YO QH that was my husband's first horse. We love him to pieces, but don't really have a job for him. He's crooked legged, anhydrotic, and stoic enough that passing him onto another family, another owner, scares me to pieces. What if THEY sell him? Don't treat his anhydrosis? Hire a jackleg farrier to straighten his spaghetti bones? I can't risk it...selling him or 'companion only-ing' him...no guarantee. Look at the countless "I had rights of first refusals and he's GONE and I can't find him" threads there are. I wouldn't risk sweet JJ in the open market. If push comes to shove, he'll be put down right here, under MY care, custody, and control. Good Lord it's hard enough to be a horse of sound limb and mind...the cripples and gimps- we have to watch over them. And that may mean, sheperding them to their graves. Big girl panties time. Girl up and get over it.

There's nothing vile about putting a horse down. Hell's bells we shut down slaughter to save the horses, now we're pissed at the notion an unusable animal might be euthanized so the owner might afford another? Get a grip, folks. No one ever, ever, EVER promised you a rose garden.

[Druid Acres]

I suggest you post an ad for the horse on some of the barefoot hoofcare forums (Yahoo Groups has a few; there are no doubt others out there). An attractive warmblood cross may have some takers.

Those folks often have amazing luck in "fixing" navicular horses, or so they claim.

Best of luck to you and your friend.

[Lieslot]

Sorry, but what new have you found after posting this thread here?
Why did you not put this in the Freebie section, where it belongs?

The answers you got here were kind of the ones you know you could have expected. There are no miracles to be expected from posting it in 'of course' rather then the freebie section.

Again the owner could keep the horse if she wanted to, she has already decided she wants a new horse and this one has to go. So there's only a couple of ways about this one being euthanize, (which you had already thought of about before posting here), two finding a home with some person who feels sorry for this poor horse and takes the problem away from your friend (which in that case you should have posted in freebies) and three let horse go to auction (which you already said owner wants to prevent).....

So rather then getting upset with everyone that voices their opinion here, being ethical, philosophical, moral, you name it.... think & question what outcome you expected from posting this here? Then have a go at the people who on here are thinking about the horse rather then feeling sorry for the poor owner who can't advance her carreer.
Again she could look into leasing an upper level horse and care for the one she has if he she really wanted to. She doesn't, that's fine, so then just go ahead and euthanize the horse and stop asking for our opinion or else just put the horse up in the freebie section or craigslist or.....

Good luck to your friend and her horse.

And yes 'you' are trying, but you got the answer you could have expected really on this board.

[Parrotnutz]

Sorry, but what new have you found after posting this thread here?
Why did you not put this in the Freebie section, where it belongs?

The answers you got here were kind of the ones you know you could have expected. There are no miracles to be expected from posting it in 'of course' rather then the freebie section.

Again the owner could keep the horse if she wanted to, she has already decided she wants a new horse and this one has to go. So there's only a couple of ways about this one being euthanize, (which you had already thought of about before posting here), two finding a home with some person who feels sorry for this poor horse and takes the problem away from your friend (which in that case you should have posted in freebies) and three let horse go to auction (which you already said owner wants to prevent).....

So rather then getting upset with everyone that voices their opinion here, being ethical, philosophical, moral, you name it.... think & question what outcome you expected from posting this here? Then have a go at the people who on here are thinking about the horse rather then feeling sorry for the poor owner who can't advance her carreer.
Again she could look into leasing an upper level horse and care for the one she has if he she really wanted to. She doesn't, that's fine, so then just go ahead and euthanize the horse and stop asking for our opinion or else just put the horse up in the freebie section or craigslist or.....

Good luck to your friend and her horse.

And yes 'you' are trying, but you got the answer you could have expected really on this board.


If you read my original post....I had already posted in giveaways.
Scroll up....I already said I am not upset....in fact I find it interesting how people are reacting. Life is way too short for a post on an Internet board to upset me. I am too old for that :D

All I have done was try and help the Horse.....this, for me, was not about the owner, necessarily. Posting here was something I took on without the owner in hopes that just maybe someone needed a companion horse. 20 years ago I was lucky enought to retire a pasture only sound horse and he lived "happily ever after"

My personal opinion of what I would do if this was my horse would be a moot point as he is not mine. I already know what I would do with my 2.

I do hope this thread gives other people food for thought.

[Rienzi]

There are still many practical questions unanswered. Of the questions I asked in post #27, the only answer I've found is that he's walking sound, and that's all.

[vxf111]

Randomly, but is the horse in NJ and is it gray?

About a month or so ago, someone posted a horse like this to the giveaways.

[Secretariat2]

Have you checked Fugly's list to see if the breeder is on there? If this was one of my "babies" I'd take him back and give him a home as a pasture pal in a heartbeat.

http://www.horsereunions.com/welcome/list.html

[Parrotnutz]

In my opinion if you buy a horse, you are responsible for making sure the horse is being taken care of for the rest of it's life. Unless you can pass this horse onto someone else for free who will take care of him, you are responsible. Putting him down in my opinion is a horrible thing to do. How would you like to be put down because you are injured? Before purchasing a horse these are things to consider- if the horse goes lame, can I afford him and another horse? If not then don't buy a horse. I can't even believe euthanization was a consideration here. The horse is pasture sound and can be used as a companion horse. End of story!


Well being you are so absolute on your beliefs when are you picking him up??

And for what it's worth....I have a living will that says no extra ordinary measures. I also had a friend who broke her neck and she opted to be what is the human form of being put down....DNR=do not resusitate. She died 2 days later. She was a physician.

The issue for some is Quality of life. Life is not an absolute. :o

[Ambrey]

The issue for some is Quality of life. Life is not an absolute. :o

And has been said many times, if this was a quality of life issue- if he was 3 legged lame and suffering- this wouldn't be an issue would it?

But this is part of your post that has really confused me, honestly. You talk about how horribly lame and damaged he is, but then dream of a pasture pet home for him. This would be a dream rather than a nightmare only if the quality of life question WAS NOT an issue.

But you stated quite clearly that this horse had to go not because you could see the suffering and unhappiness in his eyes, but because your friend wanted to continue her show career. That's not a quality of life decision for anybody but her.

[Parrotnutz]

And has been said many times, if this was a quality of life issue- if he was 3 legged lame and suffering- this wouldn't be an issue would it?

But this is part of your post that has really confused me, honestly. You talk about how horribly lame and damaged he is, but then dream of a pasture pet home for him. This would be a dream rather than a nightmare only if the quality of life question WAS NOT an issue.

But you stated quite clearly that this horse had to go not because you could see the suffering and unhappiness in his eyes, but because your friend wanted to continue her show career. That's not a quality of life decision for anybody but her.


Ambrey.....I was talking from my view point, not hers, at this point in the thread.

At this point I think the thread has passed the point about this particular horse.

[Parrotnutz]

Randomly, but is the horse in NJ and is it gray?

About a month or so ago, someone posted a horse like this to the giveaways.

He is in NJ but he is a Bay...I posted him in giveaways first...under "11 year old warmblood gelding"

[yellow-horse]

My answer doesn't address the original post, but personally, I would not put down a horse who is pasture sound and has a quality of life that is acceptable to the horse, I'd keep the horse and try to cut expenses. I would forget about getting another horse if I couldn't afford another one.
I might try a free lease if a miracle happens and someone actually wants the horse, but its not likely.
If the horse is suffering and has poor quality of life, then of course put it down. If I was going to lose my house, be out on the street, didn't have income to care for the horse I would put it down, but to me anyway, if I can afford the horse, I'd keep it. Theres no telling if she put this one down the next one wouldn't suit her purposes either.
This is just my opinion, theres nothing right or wrong here, it's not my horse.

[Ambrey]

Ambrey.....I was talking from my view point, not hers, at this point in the thread.

At this point I think the thread has passed the point about this particular horse.

I understand, but what IS your viewpoint? I can totally understand not wanting to blast on a friend, it's hard for people to get a handle on what kind of quality of life this particular horse might have.

[Parrotnutz]

I understand, but what IS your viewpoint? I can totally understand not wanting to blast on a friend, it's hard for people to get a handle on what kind of quality of life this particular horse might have.


Having worked in the animal health care industry I have come to the conclusion: Quality of Life versus Quantity of life.

Each case I would consider on an indivdual basis. I have no desire to blast my friend.

If it were my horse...this particular one.....I would put him down. Why? Because he loves to jump and be ridden and is a people horse. I see him becoming very crabby now that he cannot work. He would make a great companion/pet.....but I just don't think this is gonna happen in the world as it is today after posting here. He cannot be cured/fixed...I think his quality of life will suck as is.

This has been a very interesting conversation though.

[nlk]

My worry with the retirement places is that in this economy - or anytime, really - I can't be sure something won't happen there that compromises my horse's care. The owner(s) could hit a financial problem, or have a serious illness or injury, or die. It's all well and good for some to promise "life time care" - but what about unexpected life changes that force them to close their business? Things happen.

Would I be sure to know if that happened, and my horse needed to be "rescued" from the retirement place? If it was miles away and they didn't tell me, I might find out too late that my horse has been neglected, or sent off somewhere else. One of my requirements for a retirement home would be that it is close enough I can check in regularly (in person) to make sure my horse is doing okay.

well that's why I said I didn't agree with what she did. My own horse lived in a pasture when he was older until he got cancer (deadly by the way there was no way he was going to live out side a week) he was then euthanized (sp). He was special circumstance though. He was my first horse and had been abused and didn't trust other people I couldn't in good nature just send him off.

My girlfriend on the other hand always said she's do the same. Her horse was diagnosed with EPM and next thing I kknew was shipped off because she wanted to compete higher then she could.

How ever the OP wanted options and that is one I felt should be given as an option. It's better then the horse being shipped to auction and possible meat if he is healthy for day to day life just not hard work.

I think it's necessary to remember this post was used to ask for options not criticism ( this directed to others not you!!!) We were asked to give options and opinions (which was done here by offering opinion to my option) not tell people they are horrible for the choices they have or are going to make. Only an individual can decide what is right for them. they have to live with the consequences not every one else!

[bridgetah1]

In my opinion if you buy a horse, you are responsible for making sure the horse is being taken care of for the rest of it's life. Unless you can pass this horse onto someone else for free who will take care of him, you are responsible. Putting him down in my opinion is a horrible thing to do. How would you like to be put down because you are injured? Before purchasing a horse these are things to consider- if the horse goes lame, can I afford him and another horse? If not then don't buy a horse. I can't even believe euthanization was a consideration here. The horse is pasture sound and can be used as a companion horse. End of story!

This is such a classic "rescuer" response and IMO, it's irrational. It's a sort of "magical" thinking, IMO, almost like "if you touch it, it's yours." Forever. Forever, you will be forever shackled to this animal because you brought it into your life, however unsuitable it turns out to be.

It reminds of a dog rescue situation where a very nice, "mellow" BC/Aussie mix puppy was pulled from the shelter by a local rescue. This was a beautiful, tri-colored pup and appeared healthy - a little "lazy" perhaps but OK. He was adopted out, and within a week, the adopter returned him.

I'd seen the dog and passed him up because he was strange and had no affect.

To the rescuers, the puppy just "had no energy," He was just "low key." The adopter got worried, and had a more thorough veterinary exam done. It turned out that the dog, while no longer ill, had been seriously damaged by distemper. What passed as "mellow" was serious neurological damage and he would never be OK. But, he could live for many years.

The adopter had only had the dog a week, and the rescue reamed him out for returning the dog. They pointed out that the adoption was a lifetime commitment, etc. Someone referred him to me and I referred him to another rescue. This guy was able and willing provide a great home, but not for a puppy as non-responsive as this one was.

The owner of this horse has already put a lot of time and money into trying to hang onto him. The responsible party is the former owner who, quite likely, knowingly sold her a lame horse. I don't get the impression the present owner is irresponsible in any way, nor is she "uncaring."

Hoping to something better for him than euthanasia is not a crime. And, sometimes people do take these horses. Joe Shelton (TBFriends) manages to get some of them placed.

[Parrotnutz]

This is such a classic "rescuer" response and IMO, it's irrational. It's a sort of "magical" thinking, IMO, almost like "if you touch it, it's yours." Forever. Forever, you will be forever shackled to this animal because you brought it into your life, however unsuitable it turns out to be.

It reminds of a dog rescue situation where a very nice, "mellow" BC/Aussie mix puppy was pulled from the shelter by a local rescue. This was a beautiful, tri-colored pup and appeared healthy - a little "lazy" perhaps but OK. He was adopted out, and within a week, the adopter returned him.

I'd seen the dog and passed him up because he was strange and had no affect.

To the rescuers, the puppy just "had no energy," He was just "low key." The adopter got worried, and had a more thorough veterinary exam done. It turned out that the dog, while no longer ill, had been seriously damaged by distemper. What passed as "mellow" was serious neurological damage and he would never be OK. But, he could live for many years.

The adopter had only had the dog a week, and the rescue reamed him out for returning the dog. They pointed out that the adoption was a lifetime commitment, etc. Someone referred him to me and I referred him to another rescue. This guy was able and willing provide a great home, but not for a puppy as non-responsive as this one was.

The owner of this horse has already put a lot of time and money into trying to hang onto him. The responsible party is the former owner who, quite likely, knowingly sold her a lame horse. I don't get the impression the present owner is irresponsible in any way, nor is she "uncaring."

Hoping to something better for him than euthanasia is not a crime. And, sometimes people do take these horses. Joe Shelton (TBFriends) manages to get some of them placed.

Thanks....wonderful post! And yes ,there is a lot of magical thinking going on in the rescue world, I agree.

[Parrotnutz]

<<<Anyone buy, donate or adopt from Montana Farms/Horse Rescue Mission in Egg Harbor, NJ >>>

Look at this thread on Off course
Here is an example of why friend doesn't want to send horse to rescue

Also go to that thread, which is in NJ and see if you know her horse :cry:

[snbess]

DFL means Dead Fu$@ing Lame. I truly do feel for your friend, but I also feel that sending him off to Pasture Palhood is just leaving it to someone else to do the deed. They can't sit in front of the tv with their feet up when they are in pain, and you never know if his new situation would include some anthropomorphic whackjob who doesn't have the cojones to put a horse in pain to sleep.

I think I like my assumption for DFL better...Disabled For Life. ;)
Sandra

[Coreene]

Except that DFL is used to describe dead effing lame by everyone who uses it.

[evenstar]

I have read all the posts, but one thing is still unclear to me. Could the owner pay the horse's actual expenses (feed, hay, current vet expenses for pasture soundness). I think there are a lot of folks who are looking for a pasture companion, but normally they are looking for easy keepers. If the OP's friend could pony up for the horse's expenses (which would not be equal to her boarding cost) maybe she could find him a pasture companion home and: a) still retain control over his future since she could say it was a lease, and b)maybe be able to afford board on a second horse.

I have great sympathy for the OP's friend. I've been a multi horse owner. It's a choice I've made that I keep a horse for life, once I've taken ownership. Fortunately, I could afford it (not that it was easy, it's just that it cost a lot less to keep a horse then than it does now). First, because I've always calculated my monthly horse expenses and then used whatever was left over for myself, and second because while I find showing to be fun, it's never been more important to me than my relationships with my horses. But I completely understand her dilemma, and I can't condemn her for it. I think she's trying to do the responsible thing.

Got to ask, though, for the folks who are saying you shouldn't have a horse unless you can afford to keep it for its life (which could be 25+ years). Does that mean that, actually, if you have any ambitions about actually riding and showing, you shouldn't have a horse unless you can afford to buy and board two? Or three? I think there are a lot of responsible horse owners who would be left out in the cold if that's the criteria. (Just wondering, as someone who has owned as many as four at once - one a first horse and retiree, one a rescue, and two sound and very capable competition horses.)