Will this SO ever come around? [Archive]

Ruth0552

Dec. 27, 2008, 04:35 PM

Okay, so I got into an argument with my SO this AM. I keep 3 horses at home, who live out in a shed, and I am going to visit some family this week while I'm on Christmas break (I'm a teacher). To keep it short, SO has had schedule for about 2 weeks but kept forgetting to print it out at work, I thought he just didn't have one made yet, and it turns out he needs to work while I'm gone such that it is impossible for him to feed dinner. I guess it didn't occur to him to ask to not work nights, and I didn't even know he could do that. So in the process of me finding this out and arguing about it, he says something like "the horses aren't my responsibility." He also expressed absolute panic over the summer when I thought I might have broken my foot- not about my foot, about the logistics of caring for the horses. Now this has got me thinking, will he EVER help AT ALL with the horses?

We've been together for 9.5 years, living together 3.5 years, engaged for almost 4 years, and are finally planning our wedding for this summer. It's not like I'm about to leave the guy, but I might strangle him in his sleep. ;)

I had the horses when I met him, so it's not like this is a new thing. He used to go to more shows and such when we were earlier in our relationship, then he saw me have a serious accident, and has hated watching me ride ever since. I did have a shit fit a few months ago about his not being supportive and he came to see a 3 phase right after that. He even held horsey a little while we were there. He does not contribute financially to their care, feed them unless I am gone, or help me with hay/grain/shed cleaning, etc. He doesn't have to do ANYTHING for them, again, unless I go to visit family (rare). He also doesn't help with cleaning the house, or mowing the lawn, weed whacking, fencing, etc. I do all that. I also do 90% of the cooking, and pick up after him. All I ever really ask him to do is empty the dishwasher and clean up his laundry. At the moment, the dishwasher's been full of clean dishes since Christmas and his clean laundry is in 2 baskets next to the dryer and has been there for over a week. His dirty laundry is in his closet.

So what do you think? Will he come around? What can I say/do to get him to help a little with the horses and (god forbid) maybe clean a little around the house? Oh, and we both work full time jobs, and since I'm a NEW teacher, I definitely spend at least 40 hours a week at work.

Or how can I deal with his unhelpfulness around the house/horses?

Sigh. I just want one of those SO's that likes tractors and moving giant piles of poop from one side of the yard to the other and knows how to use a hammer.

JulesGirl

Dec. 27, 2008, 04:41 PM

After that long - no, I don't think he will come around. You've been together long enough, if he was going to change to suit you, he would have done it 9.5 years ago!

Melelio

Dec. 27, 2008, 04:46 PM

I love your line where you say "his dirty laundry is in his closet".... LOL

Anyhow, I don't think there will be any changes coming his way at this point.

What I would do is pretend, where the horses are concerned, that you are single, and hire a horse sitter when you need help.

I remember painfully having an SO that hated my dog. I stupidly left her with him on a 3 day vacation, hoping he'd take care of her. He didn't... I KNEW better, too. It's my bad, and now she's gone.

Don't do that to your guys. And it'd make your life easier with SO if you didn't pin your hopes on him doing something he obviously doesn't care to do.

I guess it's kinda like him expecting you to change the brakes on the car while he's gone, because they need it. Ain't your thing, hire a mechanic.

eta: I didn't read the 'around the house' thing. Ugh.....that's an age old problem. Definitely a case-by-case basis there. I don't even like to clean house, so I have no advice for ya...a

Watermark Farm

Dec. 27, 2008, 04:47 PM

I've been married 13 years and keep 6 horses at home. My husband is not horsey. I accepted a long time ago that if I traveled, I could not count on him to do horse care. I have found a horsey college student whom I hire to come feed/clean while I'm gone.

My husband does what he is willing to do. The horses are not his thing. I long ago gave up on him being "gung ho" about horses. He is a sport about building fences, shelters, etc but he doesn't love it. You have to compromise and see what works. I am the one who rides the tractor and makes the repairs. It's my thing --- it's OK that it's not his, too.

Honestly....over the years I've grown to appreciate the fact that my spouse is not into horses. A few friends' husbands ARE, and my god you should see the "toys" those husbands insist they need for their horses ---- trucks, trailers, custom saddles, multi day pack trips with the boys. I'm glad I'm the only one here spending money hand over fist keeping these horses going, and me showing!!! My husband plays golf, which is cheap by comparison. Thank goodness for golf!

Enlist his support. "Honey, Pookie just doesn't seem right today. Can you go look at him and see if you can see anything?" or my favorite "Honey, Pookie is feeling depressed and won't be better until you go feed him some carrots." My husband secretly likes knowing our draft horse is strangely attached to him.

Oh, and one more thing....I make sure my husband knows how much I "appreciate" his tolerance --- know what I mean? The day I get back from the lameness clinic with a $1000 bill is always a good night for Ken. Ha ha ha.

Last....you're not married yet. Make sure you're ready to spend the rest of your life with this man. Maybe he's not the one.

jetsmom

Dec. 27, 2008, 04:50 PM

No he won't come around. What he is now will be magnified after you marry. If it bothers you now, it will bother you more after you marry. Don't think for even a second you can change him.

Plan on taking care of the horses yourself, and get a horsesitter.

Touchstone Farm

Dec. 27, 2008, 04:52 PM

He's not going to change and if you're planning a wedding, you have accepted this part about him. As my mom wisely said, "If there is something that irritates you about your SO before you are married, it will be MAGNIFIED when you are married."

So...sounds like you know and now need to accept that you are the worker in terms of chores. RE: your horses, hire someone to take care of them when you're gone. RE: housework...if you can't do it all or don't want to do it all, then hire a housekeeper and split the costs 50:50. If he complains, then tell him he needs to do more. If he still refuses to help, hire the housekeeper and be done with the arguments. But for the most part: he isn't going to change at this point. Why should he? He hasn't had any reason to for nearly 10 years!

WW_Queen

Dec. 27, 2008, 04:54 PM

It definitely sounds like the issue is bigger than the horses, and more about his overall lack of considerations for you/your needs and the uneven participation around the household.

This relationship has been dragging it's toes for a while, and it sounds like while things are finally going to "the next level" (which is a good thing in relationships) he sort of taking the situation for granted. He sounds to me more like a bratty teenager and you're the nagging, "why don't you get off my back?" mother figure in this relationship. You have to do everything, but yet he'll be resentful at any attempt on your part to encourage him to "help out" without you having to direct him.

On the other hand, horses are NOT for everyone. Whether they are scared of them, intimidated by the responsibilities they entail, resentful of the money/time their partner spends on them, etc it is CAN be a make it or break it thing in a relationship. It's not fair to expect someone who genuinely dislikes/fears such a large animal to just step in and care for them in your absence. People have irrational fears, like "Sure I just have to dump the feed in the bucket, but what if they attack/try to trample me?".

Are you really irked he is being thoughtless about resisting to help, or that over all this time he would eventually "come around" however he still is not/won't acknowledge their importance in your life?

Address the horse/housework issues as two separate things.

First of all, the immediate issue is the horses. If he were more thoughtful, he would say "Honey, I know you need my help with feeding/watering/etc but I can't help myself, I'm just not comfortable participating in their care. You've already given me the instructions on what they require, is there a local person or service that I could contact/hire to make sure they are properly cared for while you're gone?"

The fact he seems to be purposely losing their schedule/blaming you/not making arrangement around the times you specifically need help (or even trying to) is some sort of passive-aggressive, childish "I said I would help but I don't want to and you can't make me" without out-right telling you "No, I won't do it".

Secondly, his lack of participation around the house must really weigh on you. Being in a relationship is about being equals, not about one towing the other person for years on end. I recommend you sit down and tell him you're swamped at work, busy with other aspects of your life (don't say the horses specifically) and you need more consistent help around the house. Emphasize how much of a burden it is to take care of everything and you would really appreciate his help.

Give it a few weeks, if he hasn't improved then considering some sort of chore list (he wants to play cranky teenager? Then fine, he can be treated like one) of things that each of you needs to do around the house on a regular basis.

If he still resists/refuses to participate, he'd better have a damn good reason. You NEED someone who can help you/support you in times like these, even if it's something simple like arranging alternate horse care. Life can get so complicated/difficult at times.....having a leech on your back during those low points will only bring you down further.

Good luck! Maybe he just needs a good talking to really understand where you are coming from. :)

subk

Dec. 27, 2008, 04:59 PM

He's not going to change and if you're planning a wedding, you have accepted this part about him. As my mom wisely said, "If there is something that irritates you about your SO before you are married, it will be MAGNIFIED when you are married."
And my mom said, "Don't marry a man because he has qualities you admire, but because he has annoying habits that you can live with."

You won't change him and a ring on his finger won't either.

Percheron X

Dec. 27, 2008, 05:23 PM

Accept someone for who they are now. You can't change anyone, You can only change yourself. If you can't accept who someone is, then accept that you have no power to change them, and then examine how they fit in your life.

yellowbritches

Dec. 27, 2008, 05:35 PM

Won't go into the household type of things and agree with others who say if he hasn't changed yet he's not gonna.

Regarding the horses, THEY AREN'T HIS RESPONSIBILITY!!! Soooo, they aren't like pets that you two brought into the relationship together, they are YOUR horses and as such they are YOUR responsibility. If he was fine with helping out and offered, sweet! be happy and treat him like a king when he helps, but obviously he isn't, and if he isn't I don't think it is fair to nag him about it. Hire a farm sitter when you have to go out of town or coop or barter with a horsey friend.

Ruth0552

Dec. 27, 2008, 05:38 PM

Come Shine

Dec. 27, 2008, 05:40 PM

Men marry women hoping they won't change and women marry men hoping they will.

All I can say is good luck with it. :)

Sakura

Dec. 27, 2008, 05:41 PM

He does not contribute financially to their care, feed them unless I am gone, or help me with hay/grain/shed cleaning, etc. He doesn't have to do ANYTHING for them, again, unless I go to visit family (rare). He also doesn't help with cleaning the house, or mowing the lawn, weed whacking, fencing, etc. I do all that. I also do 90% of the cooking, and pick up after him. All I ever really ask him to do is empty the dishwasher and clean up his laundry. At the moment, the dishwasher's been full of clean dishes since Christmas and his clean laundry is in 2 baskets next to the dryer and has been there for over a week. His dirty laundry is in his closet.

Um... and what exactly would he be bringing to the table if the two of you are to get married? I mean... sounds like he has it pretty good... but you are trying to be everything to everybody... that's the fastest way to burnout and resentment that I personally know of...

enjoytheride

Dec. 27, 2008, 05:42 PM

My friend always had horses at home when she married her husband. He didn't want to take care of them when she went to shows and he didn't want someone else on the property so she stopped showing, he didn't want her gone for lessons all do so she stopped going to lessons, he didn't want them at home so she boarded them and her barn was empty, then he didn't want her gone to ride them in the evening. He wanted her to sell the horses and stay at home watching TV but when she did that they never talked and other things became a problem. She divorced the husband, bought more acerage, bought more horses, and is now doing all the things she used to do.

I find lots of alarm bells going off that he doesn't do any of the housework or cook either, having a relationship where one person works the same amount of hours, does every single thing at home, and tries to do a hobby the other person doesn't want them to do will never work out. Personal experience right there and I will never get into a relationship with someone who doesn't at least understand and share the other stuff equally.

I wouldn't expect him to do all the work but I would expect someone that you plan on marrying to understand how much you love what you do and to be supportive even if he is distant. If you can't get this sorted out now it will continue to be a problem after you get married and the source of many fights.

Coreene

Dec. 27, 2008, 05:42 PM

Red flags everywhere.

RainyDayRide

Dec. 27, 2008, 05:45 PM

I've heard that sometimes guys like him improve in the housework area once there are kids involved?

Dream on ...

you've accepted his behavior for nine years - why should he ever change? He's got somebody to pay half (or more) of his living expenses plus take care of the house/meals etc .

I sure hope he contributes to your relationship in ways you haven't mentioned.

enjoytheride

Dec. 27, 2008, 05:47 PM

I also know many guys who have houses with basements so they don't have to deal with the kids and I know one guy who left his wife and newborn in the hospital so he could get some peace and quiet to play his video games.

Ruth0552

Dec. 27, 2008, 05:48 PM

"It definitely sounds like the issue is bigger than the horses, and more about his overall lack of considerations for you/your needs and the uneven participation around the household."

I think this is definitely the bigger issue. The horses thing just kinda compounds it.

They kind of are his pets too though. We have 4 cats together, which he loves very much but I can't remember the last time he cleaned a litter box. Last fall, when an old mare I had was dying, he was reluctant to put her to sleep, if she could have any more happy time. I kept her going as long as I could comfortably, but there was no way she was going to make it once we got ice and snow. He definitely cares about them though. He cried when we finally put her to sleep.

How can I not marry a guy who shoos frogs out the driveway so we don't smush them with the car?

Sakura

Dec. 27, 2008, 05:52 PM

.
How can I not marry a guy who shoos frogs out the driveway so we don't smush them with the car?

Are you serious?

yellowbritches

Dec. 27, 2008, 05:52 PM

OK...I have to preface this with I'm not married nor have I been...however, I've watched lots of people go into bad marriages...anyway...

I've heard that sometimes guys like him improve in the housework area once there are kids involved?
If he's not good now please God almighty don't think he's going to be good once you all start making kids. The number one mistake people make is having kids thinking that will be what finally fixes everything. WRONG. And now you've got a bad marriage AND kids.

Agree with Coreene, LOTS of red flags with this relationship.

And since when do you "need" a reception to get married? All you need is an official and a witness, and you can usually get both at the courthouse.

spurgirl

Dec. 27, 2008, 05:56 PM

"I've heard that guys like him improve in the housework area once there are kids involved"....Ummm, not usually, they just either A) become more sullen, or B)scream more,C) find things away from home to do, or D) just add their nasty socks and other sh*t to the piles everywhere. Good Luck!!

LexInVA

Dec. 27, 2008, 06:03 PM

I think you should be single and happy or find a relationship with someone who wants to SHARE life with you instead of living in the same house and sharing the kitchen/bathroom. You shouldn't get into a marriage or (preferably after being married) have kids unless you can honestly say beyond a reasonable doubt that you are satisfied with your relationship and you know the other person treats you as an equal in all aspects of that relationship. Many people become complete douchebags after they get married because they feel no need to maintain the pretenses that often come with non-binding relationships so one should also never expect marriage to bring sunshine and happiness into your life simply because you said "Til Death Do Us Part".

JanM

Dec. 27, 2008, 06:03 PM

Ruth-I don't know who told you about the improvement in sharing chores after kids come along but they were totally full of it. Just go to your local library and look at a lot of issues of Ladies Home Journal and read the "Can This Marriage Be Saved" column-nobody wants to do home chores after work, and the chores inequality and finances are the two major stumbling blocks for a lot of these people. If he doesn't do chores now he won't do them later. By the way if you run into financial problems what do you think will be the first thing to go? In the future I would always have someone else do the feedings, that way you will avoid the inevitable last minute scramble for horse sitters because it will continue to happen. And when you have kids you will be the 100% parent for them, I don't see him doing anything for them and what makes you think he'll want to participate in raising them either?

Like Dear Abby says "Are you better off with him or without him?" When you make a decision on this question I think you will know what you want. Or my version of this is "Is this the person you want to see everyday for the rest of your life?"

gloryeyes

Dec. 27, 2008, 06:04 PM

...if you're asking this question, you know the answer.

- Glory

LexInVA

Dec. 27, 2008, 06:07 PM

And since when do you "need" a reception to get married? All you need is an official and a witness, and you can usually get both at the courthouse.

Saving gobs of money for the tropical Honeymoon vacation. :D

Hampton Bay

Dec. 27, 2008, 06:14 PM

It sounds to me like you are afraid to be alone, so you just keep staying with him, hoping he will change and make you happy? I know a lot of women date men who treat them poorly because they don't want to be alone and they think they don't deserve any better.

And that is not the case at all. He will continue to do what you allow him to get away with, and in my experience he is not going to suddenly start picking up after himself. Forget the horses. If he were going to help out, it would be BEFORE you got married.

If you can live with this for the rest of your life, then go ahead and marry him. But don't expect, or even hope, that he will change. You have to make yourself believe that you deserve better, and then resolve to not put up with being treated poorly. I just broke up with someone a couple months back, after over a year living together, because he treated me poorly. If something went wrong it was my fault, including the election. I had made so many sacrifices for him, but he didn't make many for me. A one-way relationship like that just leads to resentment.

SharonA

Dec. 27, 2008, 06:26 PM

I mean, no, he will not change.

Children will make it harder because you will be busier and more tired, plus you will likely have less time to enjoy your horses meaning you won't have the stress relief that caring for them normally provides. Your house will be messier, and you will have more laundry and more dishes. Your whole life will have changed (or will feel like it), and he will just keep doing his normal thing, though okay he has to change a diaper occasionally (it will be nowhere near the number of diapers you change, meals you prepare, dishes you do, times you wake up in the night, etc). Your SO may turn on his fatherhood gene and turn out to be a big help or he may not.

Do not expect anything from him regarding the horses. He has already shown you what you can expect. Find another option to help you with the horse stuff. If you want the relationship to last, do not even stress the relationship by asking him to do horse stuff. Just figure out an alternative.

Then figure out if you want a relationship with a guy whom you need to work so hard to live in the same house with. :-)

I'm not saying he may not have good points that make the relationship worth it to you. He just seems to have a strong sense of "your stuff is your stuff and I don't have to be involved with it," which can be good if you don't want him involved (I don't want hubby or kids near my horsie life), but can cause problems if he keeps on thinking the house is your responsibility, and if he decides that kids are 99% the woman's responsibility too (and meanwhile you're probably still working outside the home). Sometimes marriage isn't 50-50; sometimes one person or the other needs to pitch in more or give in more because it's the right thing to do for the marriage, even if it's not "fair" or "equal." But if one person is always doing more of the pitching in, that person can get resentful -- especially if you throw kids into the mix.

If you really, really, really believe that he can't help you with the horses or that he moves frogs out of the driveway because he is such a softie at heart, maybe see if you can find a way to nurture his softieness into being more helpful around the house. Just ask him. Just say, "Honey, I read on the Internet about all these people who don't like the way their SOs manage the housework. I don't want to be like all those angry people. What do you want us to do about managing the housework? Let's write down a plan that works for us both." Then you have to make him stick to it, probably by treating him like a god when he accomplishes his assigned tasks. :-)

And, it took his parents FOUR YEARS to get a divorce? Why did they divorce, and what might you be able to learn from their relationship? If he is basing his ideas of marriage/relationship on his parents, you might have some debriefing/realigning of expectations to do. :-)

Don't get me wrong; everybody is resentful/annoyed with their spouse sometimes. But that's over little things. Ya gotta make sure you're not setting yourself up for failure by marrying someone who expects a "different journey" than what you're expecting! :-)

Hope he proves us all wrong....

slc2

Dec. 27, 2008, 06:28 PM

No.

It's been this way for over a decade. He is not going to change.

I think I will go kiss my partner, I really am very, very lucky.

Chief2

Dec. 27, 2008, 06:39 PM

I am not a psychologist nor am I a therapist. It doesn't sound like your SO is at all into horses, and it doesn't sound like he'll change. To be honest, looking back at my marriage, I think women are the ones who change the most, in general, because men are usually hardwired to be pretty much who they are from where we meet and marry them. So, we wind up being the ones twisting and turning ourselves inside out to accommodate them, because basically, they just don't change a whole lot from year to year. Instead, we do.

Anyways, if you love the guy and want to have a good time while away, I would do as everyone else has suggested, and hire in someone to horse-sit for your herd. JMO. Good luck with your horses.

ThirdCharm

Dec. 27, 2008, 06:52 PM

My husband has had horses for 30+ years. He has two retired horses that live on our farm, which is a small boarding/training facility. Morning feed takes about 1/2 hour, ditto evenings, cleaning all the stalls 2 hours.

I never, EVER expect him to do ANYTHING at the barn. A couple of times when we had been living together for about two years, I would be going to an overnight show and asked him to FEED (never to do stalls). "Well, I can feed in the morning sunday but could you get someone else to do afternoons?" After this happened a couple times I just said whatever, it is no harder to find someone to feed three times as opposed to twice! and have since paid students or 'professional' horse/barn-sitters to take care of things. He doesn't like to be 'tied down' to the horses' schedule (his two horses, when he had them at his own farm long before we met, kind of lived out in a field with a runin shed.... not real high maintenance). It just isn't worth bothering about. It's better than living in a condo and boarding the horses somewhere, which I think he would probably prefer except he likes saying we own a farm *rolleyes*

Jennifer

Ruth0552

Dec. 27, 2008, 06:55 PM

a) I am definitely not planning on popping out children in an effort to "fix" my relationship. The comment was LITERALLY one I've heard from older friends with kids- oh my husband was like that, then we had kids and he had to set a good example and it got a lot better!

b) The Frogs comment was tounge in cheek. I forget sarcasm is not well relayed over the internet. It is, however, an excellent example of how he values animal life and yes he is absolutely a big softie at heart. It's hard to find someone who values their pets lives like I do.

c) I grew up with an acoholic in my immediate family. I have also witnessed the losers and assholes many of my friends have dated. They all think I am lucky to have my fiance, and honestly I do too. We are actually very similar, get along great (except every 3 months when I want to vaccuum up all his socks), and I very much enjoy spending time with him. Some of the best times we've had have been on vacation spending 24/7 together. That said, he is very involved in sports and I do not think he resents my horsey involvement at all- he just doesn't want to DO anything with them.

I really appreciate all the comments. It has made me spend time evaluating my relationship, and I think the answer is that I do know he will not change and yes I can live with that. If the biggest problem I have is that I wish he did more housework then I think I actually have it pretty good. Perhaps I was just hoping there was some magical recipe that turns lazy husbands into lawn mowing machines. Note that my questions weren't "should I stay with him"- they were "will he change? How can I help him with this?"

Every relationship has problems and challenges. No relationship is perfect. Compared to most of the relationships I've seen- we are not badly off at all. What would I expect to find if we did call it off? Brad Pitt on my lawn mower holding a vacuum and a t-post pounder? You have to consider- Horse women are VERY strong (stubborn?) individuals. We are often uncompromising and well, snarky. I would include myself in that depiction. Now consider how many of us are divorced or single later in life? Perhaps there is something we are missing that the rest of the population has. Too often with horse women, in fact all horse people, there is a "my way or the highway" mentality.

Oh, re: wedding. We have waited to get married because we did not feel we needed some silly piece of paper to verify our relationship and WE wanted to have a REAL wedding. Our families both wanted us to have a typical middle-class wedding as well. What was going to change anyways? We already live together. We are both very excited about it AND he has taken an interest in planning.

Ruth0552

Dec. 27, 2008, 07:00 PM

RedMare01

Dec. 27, 2008, 07:01 PM

I think after 9.5 years he has gotten very complacent with things as they are. I recently got married (we did not live together until a month before we tied the knot) and I told him up front that all chores would be split 50/50 and he agreed. I do the cooking, he does the laundry, and we split the cleaning (although we do differ on how often the cleaning needs to be done :lol:). So far, things are working out marvously. In fact, he is unloading the dishwasher as we speak :cool:.

Where I think a lot of women go wrong is in doing everything just get it done (most of us are a bit more motivated than guys in that department :lol:). They are supposed to do the dishes, they are not done in an hour, so we go ahead and do them ourselves. Guys aren't dumb, if they get used to you doing everything, most aren't going to object.

For you, you need to draw a line. Ask him which chores he would like to do. From then on, you do not do them. No matter how much they need done. If he says he will do laundry, you do not do it anymore (or at least not his). Period. He will eventually run out of clothes.

Out of curiosity, has he ever lived on his own? I think that makes a big difference with guys...if they move right out of mom's house to in with a woman, they usually need some...reinforcement ;)...to do their fair share. My hubby and I both lived on our own during college, so he got used to doing everything for himself, and it wasn't a surprise (or shock :eek:) when we moved in together. In fact, I came home one day to find him ironing my t-shirts, which I found amusing and sweet (I never iron t-shirts :lol:). So, it is possible.

As far as the horses go, I would be perturbed that he won't do anything for them, especially on a very sporadic basis. It's not like you're asking him to feed everyday, just for a couple. The whole point of being in a relationship is to have a partner. And doing things that you don't want to do is part of that.

Caitlin

Haalter

Dec. 27, 2008, 07:12 PM

I don't think he's going to change either. You can accept this and move on with him, or you can decide not to accept it and move on by yourself. I agree that it's much bigger than the horses - if he was doing his fair share around the house while you dealt w your horses alone, it would be one thing, or if you did everything around the house/barn while he paid all the bills that would seem fair...but your current arrangement sounds pretty one-sided. You said yourself that a piece of paper won't change much since you're already living together, and I think you're right.

My SO leaves his laundry all over the house too. He doesn't like to take his dirty boots off in the house and he regularly tracks mud on the floor that I clean up. But while I'm cleaning up the mud, picking up the socks, or washing the dishes he leaves on the table from the meals I've cooked, he's usually on the tractor or fixing the fence or feeding *my* horses...so it all works out. If I had to do everything for the horses in addition to cleaning up after him, I'd be super resentful. As it is, we have a division of labor that works great for us and seems pretty fair.

avezan

Dec. 27, 2008, 07:19 PM

I agree with your fiance that the horses are not his responsibility. Yes, it would be nice if he helped out, but you need to expect that he will NOT help out, and if he does, it will be a pleasant surprise. Plan to have neighbors or friends feed for you when you are out of town. This way you are not disappointed by his lack of help. The housework is another story. I've been there, done that. I've lowered my standards a bit. I've found there are thresholds. My husband's threshold for cleaning is lower than mine, but it is there. If I clean every time we hit my threshold, then I am the only one cleaning. If I let it go once in a while, he will clean. Arguing about it got us nowhere. So I let it go. Trying not to let these things get to you is going to be your best bet. If you absolutely cannot let it go, then you need to rethink the relationship. But it sounds like the relationship is good and worth compromising for. I liked the frog comment. :)

pds

Dec. 27, 2008, 07:49 PM

SharonA

Dec. 27, 2008, 08:02 PM

No, no, Ruth! The "strength" we horsewomen have is that when our children are being whiney and manipulative, we know to sit up straight, put our shoulders back and down, maintain a strong centered core, balance ourselves, and say, "No. That is not an acceptable behavior. Complain all you want, you will not change my position, and I will still be quietly, calmly, in charge here." :-)

I don't think horsewomen are particularly snarky or stubborn. I apologize if I may have sounded this way in my earlier post; I'm afraid you may have struck a nerve. But, it may very well be that because we have our relationships with our horses and we learn things there -- courage, communication, and yes, the pleasure of being healthy and strong -- we are lucky in that we have a stronger sense of self than some women, so we don't take crap from unworthy lesser beings. :-)

Oh! This is a big marital thing. Definitely make sure you and the SO are clear on such things as what happens if you transport a stinky horse blanket in his car, or what happens if you use the home washing machine to wash said stinky blanket.

DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"

Dec. 27, 2008, 08:06 PM

I have a friend whose husband is NOT into horses. He's into golf. Works well - he gets to spend $$$ on expensive golf items, she gets to spend $$$ on expensive horse items. But I don't think he will do anything with the horses if he can possibly ever avoid it. And they have been married a long time.

Is there a friend/fellow horse person in the area for whom you can do this kind of switch off?

Stacie

Dec. 27, 2008, 08:07 PM

I've heard that sometimes guys like him improve in the housework area once there are kids involved?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Sorry... I just had to get that out.

You will do ALL the work and hold a job down, too.

Good Luck with that.

Chardavej

Dec. 27, 2008, 08:11 PM

I really am blessed, I have an awsome husband! He makes dinner about 75-80% of the time, and feeds every morning, he build the whole barn, loves to go on trail rides with me, loves just being at the barn and giving treats. He also does laundry (mine and his) and will *sometimes* clean house.

Of course I work about 20 more hours a week, and I feed after work and usually both feedings on the weekend days, although usually the weekend evening feedings he is there with me, helping.

Have to go, hubby made spagetti.

2ndyrgal

Dec. 27, 2008, 08:14 PM

For instance, this evening after a long day's work (I had a unusual day off), my DH came straight out to the barn to see if I needed any help. As it happens, I needed quite a bit of help, as the "old man" aka "Tuff Monster" (24 y.o. TB) needed a bath. I mean badly and it was 72 degrees. Here are the two things you need to know.. In spite of being a showhorse extraordinaire for oh, 20 years, "Tuff" has an unreasonable fear of the wash stall. Always has been difficult, now, with his sight fading and his faculties not what they were, impossible. Which means he gets a bath right on the concrete barn aisle, which slopes conveniently downhill. Except it truly takes two people. My husband has only been horsey since we built this farm 5 years ago, but he learns quick. So he held my difficult, filthy, not cooperating at all horse as best he could while I bathed as quickly as I could a resistant horse with a full winter coat. DH's is doing PT right now 3x/week for two bad shoulders and ended up (as the holder usually does) completely soaked. But put the old guy in his stall, told me he thought it needed more shavings so he could roll, gave everyone a treat and just laughed about it. He moves manure, builds neat stuff, and makes sure that we have everything we need to make the horses comfortable and safe. He would prefer a condo, and mows the entire farm like a golf course. He is much neater than I am in the house and I've changed my habits to suit many of his. I have never picked up so much as one stray sock or towel, or ever had to put the seat down on the toilet. When I have my tonsillectomy in a week or so, he'll be the one out there doing the stalls and feeding for a couple of days. I don't want him to ever change. I'm going to go thank him right now in fact.........

2 tbs

Dec. 27, 2008, 08:17 PM

Your relationship is your business. I've been in a similar one for going on 15 years. If I got into the details I'm 110% sure I'd be asked why I'm still with him - what works for one may not work for anyone else so it's way too hard to pass judgement!

Difference for me is my guy does cook and will clean things if the mood strikes/I ask nicely. We both do the dishes randomly and we are equally lazy about emptying the dishwasher :winkgrin: He prefers his video games to just about everything. He doesn't really like horses. When I turn my back he's stuffing them full of treats but he'd prefer not even be at the barn. When I force him to go he usually stays in the car and naps while I do my thing.

If I had horses at home I'm sure he'd help me but only if I was truly in a bind. In truth he'd rather me do what I need to do even if takes me 24 hours to get it done. He feels I have too much responsibility in life but that's because he would prefer to have none. He also figures since I've taken on that responsibility then I need to follow through with it. Still though. If I need him to help he will. He won't like it and no doubt he'd agree after I was clearly mad at him but in the end he would. If I said "fine, I'll get someone else to do it but you need to pay them for me" he'd be a much happier man :D Yes. He'd much rather pay for it than do the work. And yes. The money would come out of his pocket because he is more than capable but it's his choice not to do it.

Heck. My trainers husband is a vet (small animal mostly but also does our local horse track) yet I do most of the feedings when my trainer is gone for the day. Sometimes he'll do one here or there but it's usually me :winkgrin: Some people just don't want to be bothered with farm work...even the simple parts like dumping pre-made feed into a feed bin ;)

If you can live with him being that way with the farm and house work then find a way to live with it and not throw it in his face. You can tell him it frustrates/upsets you but the arguments don't usually resolve anything...trust me, I know all too well ;) Make sure he understands that it is going to cost money to hire someone to clean the house and the take care of the horses and that you will be splitting these expenses (horses are on your $ and house is on his). Maybe he'll change his tune when he knows it's super simple work and if he doesn't do it it'll cost him money...then again, probably not :winkgrin:

Dec. 27, 2008, 08:24 PM

He's usually inside on the couch. God he's lazy.

Oh, and just to clarify, the reason we've been engaged so long is because of money as well. My parents have been unemployed and his were getting a divorce over the past 4 years. Thankfully, my dad has finally found gainful employment and now they have volunteered to pay for the reception, allowing us to finally tie the knot.

I've heard that sometimes guys like him improve in the housework area once there are kids involved?
I think you already know the answer and you didn't REALLY put off your marriage because your parents were unemployed and couldn't pay for a reception....nor because his parents were getting a divorce.
What would happen when you have a child is then you'd have TWO people to wait on.
Better think a loooooong time.

enjoytheride

Dec. 27, 2008, 08:40 PM

Ruth, my ex would take his socks off and toss them on the floor. They didn't bother him there so he didn't care. So I started throwing any socks I found on the ground away. He got down to his last pair before he figured it out and after that they made it to the laundry basket.

I think it was a sign I should have paid attention to because your other half is at least supposed to come to a compromise with you about things.

For instance, I'd be fine if my other half never wanted to go to a boring horse show as long as he kissed me goodbye and welcomed me home with open arms. My ex threw a fit when I left and wanted dinner as soon as I came home. I put up with it because I thought that every relationship was like that. Then I realized that realtionships are supposed to be happy and people today are cheating themselves out of happiness if they stay in a miserable relationship because they think that's the best they can do and everyone else is like that. It took me 10 years to figure it out and I'm very glad he cheated on me before we got married.

rainechyldes

Dec. 27, 2008, 08:46 PM

@ the OP.

I think you are asking the wrong question

It's not is he ever going to change?

It's can you live with who he is for the rest of your life? :)

county

Dec. 27, 2008, 08:57 PM

I don't think he'll change, I don't think he has a good reason to. I also don't think you should get married to him unless you love him for who he is not who you want him to be.

Go Fish

Dec. 27, 2008, 09:15 PM

[QUOTE=Ruth0552;3757913] It bothers me more that we both work the same amount and we split all the bills, I think I actually pay a little more, but yet I do 100% of the house and yard work. It's like he does all the "relaxing" for both of us.

He has no reason to do housework...you do it. I'm constantly amazed when women gripe that their SO/DH does no housework, when they have been doing it all, like superwoman, or something. Learn to live with a messy house.

I don't ask my DH to do horses, and he doesn't ask me to do golf.

enjoytheride

Dec. 27, 2008, 09:19 PM

Oh no, I don't agree with learning to live with a messy house! I think finding someone who has the same standard of housework is better!

Ruth0552

Dec. 27, 2008, 09:26 PM

galwaybay

Dec. 27, 2008, 10:01 PM

I'm seeing a few red flags here as well - 9.5 years of dating, living together and engagement. No sorry. I stick to Miss Manners here. An engagement is only the time in which the marriage is planned. It has not taken you 4 years to plan this wedding... I'm wondering about the finances in this. It sounds like this is YOUR place, with YOUR horses - what's in it for him. Bottom line marry the guy but please please please protect your interests. If it is YOUR House/land/farm - KEEP it that way. I'm a firm believer in his, mine and ours when it comes to finances. I have seen more women get screwed over money - because we are stupid when it comes to men. I'm thinking there is something here more than meets the eye and now OP is justifying this relationship; women who's SO/Spouses hit them also can justify their actions - its only because dinner wasn't ready, on the table, got laid off his job. No excuse. Your SO obviously does little to help w/ your horses, so I'm somewhat surprised that you are miffed about his forgetting about them this time... Marry him if you must, you might have 50 lovely years together, I hope you do, I also hope that during that 50 year marriage the deed to your farm is in your name... and your name only - sorry SO

Watermark Farm

Dec. 27, 2008, 10:14 PM

I've heard that sometimes guys like him improve in the housework area once there are kids involved?

Please tell me you're joking.

Your man will not change. Children will only make things a million times more difficult. You will work twice as hard and have twice as less time than he. Even in the best marriage. Guaranteed.

If he's that lazy, I suggest you have your tubes tied and forgo having children. They're highly overrated for solving marital problems.

A great book: "10 stupid things women do to mess up their lives" by (Dr Laura) Schlesinger. Read it.

Marry your best friend. And remember, "there's no Mr. Right, there's Mr. We Can Work It Out."

Snapdragon

Dec. 27, 2008, 10:15 PM

I don't think he'll change, I don't think he has a good reason to. I also don't think you should get married to him unless you love him for who he is not who you want him to be.

Succint and right on target. Couldn't have said it any better.

Coreene

Dec. 27, 2008, 10:17 PM

And the red flags grow and grow. Where is Tom Lyekis when we need him the most?

Jaegermonster

Dec. 27, 2008, 10:41 PM

There's a book both of you need to read.
It's called "Codependent no more".
He won't change and it won't get any better,for sure.
It's about a whole lot more than just feeding the horses.
I see all sorts of passive aggressiveness here.

Unless you like being his maid, his cook, the stable hand and the you know what,
get out now and get some professional help.

gdolapp

Dec. 27, 2008, 10:43 PM

The op said he saw her have a seriouse accident and has hated watching her ride since.

Maybe that hate has went to the horses to and he doesn't want to see you hurt again.
and can not accept that you won't give up horses there for feels you care about the horses
more than him.

When I had my bad accident a year ago NO ONE in my family wanted me to ride again.
Actually I was surprised that my horse was still here when I got out of the hospital. But I knew that even though my husband was upset he would not let anyone hurt or take my horse.

My family was dead set against my getting back on. So I just didn't tell anyone.
Hubby and a good friend were in the garage I carried the bridle out on my shoulder
snuck to the pasture grabbed my horse, used a five gallon pail and got on.
When they realized what I was doing Hubby stood in the garage door and asked why I didn't
bring my saddle out. So he held my horse while I saddled him and I rode around the yard.
I have only ridden my own horse a half dozen times in the year since my accident
however I have ridden with friends and used their xtra mule more times than
I can count. I even went to MO for ten days with them and rode the mule.

My family doesn't like my riding but my husband has accepted that I am going to
that the horses are a part of me. Even though I know that if I take another bad fall I
could end up paralized I put it in the back of my mind and ride.

Sit down with him and discuss your feelings about this and maybe he will tell you
his. It could be that he loves you so much he doesn't want to see you hurt again.

Coreene

Dec. 27, 2008, 11:03 PM

And it could be that I'm dating George Clooney.

Kate66

Dec. 27, 2008, 11:12 PM

I agree with those that said that the horses are your responsibility, however also agree that it would have been nice for him to share his schedule earlier. Perhaps that's just the lesson for going forward not to wait for his schedule. The housework thing would drive me completely nuts, however I am not sure what to say as I think my SO and I are the opposite way around. He is fastidious in the house and I am not, I drive HIM nuts. Not sure that a melt down helps though, I respond better to a conversation along the lines of "it would be great if you could help me more with the housework rather than getting annoyed at me" - it makes me feel more guilty.

With the horses, they are not my SO's thing, but having said that, he just came upstairs and said my boy in quarantine was going nuts because he couldn't see the mare in the other pasture and it's really windy. So he toddled out, with halters, and brought them both in. Like you, he saw me having a bit of an accident with one that I owned for a while and it terrified him every time I dealt with her, I no longer have her, in deference to him.

DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"

Dec. 27, 2008, 11:14 PM

And it could be that I'm dating George Clooney.

No! No! I want him!!!

Percheron X

Dec. 27, 2008, 11:22 PM

Sit down with him and discuss your feelings about this and maybe he will tell you
his. It could be that he loves you so much he doesn't want to see you hurt again.

I agree that discussion is key.

BasqueMom

Dec. 27, 2008, 11:23 PM

Nope, it ain't gonna get any better. While I can understand avoiding horsey chores,
not participating with the house stuff doesn't cut it. And your resentment will grow and
grow and grow.......

Get a horse sitter but somehow he needs to pull his weight with the house stuff--you're
working, contributing $$$$ and should not be doing 90% of the housework.

You've gotten lots of good advice--wishing you the best!

WW_Queen

Dec. 27, 2008, 11:33 PM

Do men change when they have children? Some become bigger babies than the ones you birth, and I suppose others grow into it.

My SO was your typical, irresponsible man when his ex-gf became pregnant, and he dropped out of school to get a job, scheduled his life around visiting his son, and has since become some sort of superman in order to be the father he feels his son deserves. The house must be spic-and-span (much to my chagrin), the kitchen must always be clean, the laundry must always be done, and everything "has it's place" (and yes, he will do it all himself!).

On the other hand, if only I could convince him that farting in bed is still, and will never be, comedy worth a standing ovation, then I would have something. ;)

If you otherwise feel that his few disappointing qualities (not mowing the lawn/doing dishes of his own accord) are far overshadowed by his positive/endearing traits (shooing the frogs off the road, being a wonderful husband-to-be overall) then you're going to have to get over his disinterest in horses and accept the fact until you can pay for the cleaning lady, every time you look in the mirror you're looking at her. ;)

Isn't there a saying about "It isn't about what you can live with, it's about the person you can't live without"?

Not everyone's fairytale will have a happy ending, but it'll be story nonetheless. :)

summerhorse

Dec. 27, 2008, 11:40 PM

Is this guy just God's gift in bed or something? Because I honestly don't see the attraction. I can certainly see why HE would stay but I'm not sure what you will get out of it but more of the same.

I'd be giving the I DO love you, I'm just not IN love with you speach and "Let's be friends..." While I don't expect (or really want) someone who feels they have to support my horse habit or be "one" with me and my hobby I also feel that as a family member they can do a FAVOR for their spouse and feed the horses for a couple of days. I'd expect him to feed the cats and dogs too! And the kids if there were any! If he really doesn't want to do it then he can pay a sitter to come do it, either one is fine.

It kind of sounds like he might be afraid of them? If that is the case I do think you should fix it where the horses are contained where he can feed them and fill the waters and give them an eyeball without actually going in or contacting them. If they are stalled well you'll just have to clean up several days worth when you get home! =)

I pay my friends to feed for me one way or another. You need friends as much as spouses so you don't want to risk running them off by over using them for feeders. (paying them can just mean switching horse sitting or gift cards)

summerhorse

Dec. 27, 2008, 11:41 PM

@ the OP.

I think you are asking the wrong question

It's not is he ever going to change?

It's can you live with who he is for the rest of your life? :)

That's it in a nutshell!

Old Equine Lady

Dec. 27, 2008, 11:50 PM

Parrotnutz

Dec. 28, 2008, 12:01 AM

Stop doing his laundry, stop cleaning up after him. Let the house turn into a mess and when he can't stand it any longer, declare clean up day. That's what I had to do and now he helps clean house. As far as the yard work, take him to buy a tractor to play with. The new zeros are a lot of fun and chances are he won't want anyone else to drive it. Horses are yours, sorry.

Amen sista!!

The red flags I see have nothing to do with the horses.

I think you both need couples therapy before you tie the knot....that is unless you enjoy doing it all and then complaining about it?? Not being Bitchy jusy calling it the way I read it

How is your self esteem....sounds like you both come from not so great parental units which may have you where you are today and seriously you need to air these feelings with a 3rd party<therapist> instead of yelling every 3 months...it gets worse not better with kids....can u do it all yourself and not resent him?

TB or not TB?

Dec. 28, 2008, 01:56 AM

Does your SO expect/ask you to wash is golf clubs or wash his balls?

The latter only, but he doesn't play golf. :eek::lol:

:D No I'm kidding - that's why I'm single.

horse-loverz

Dec. 28, 2008, 02:33 AM

The latter only, but he doesn't play golf. :eek::lol:

Coffee on the keyboard.. :lol::lol:

I don't think he will change. I ended my first marriage because I knew my husband wasn't going to change and I refused to make any more compromises. I did go "on strike" and refused to do his laundry dishes etc. He started re-wearing his dirty underwear, letting milk curdle in the bottom of cereal dishes, and I still had to put our 3 year old daughter in daycare during the day even though he was unemployed and at home because "it was interfering with computer time to watch her" :mad: So I kindly requested a divorce which I got. We've been divoced 10 yrs now and he still has not changed one bit.

My current husband is the polar opposite, he does the dishes and laundry without being asked, helps take care of my critters (my dogs and cats the horse is boarded), shleps the kids around for me when I am busy, cooks meals, all without complaint and without being asked. He figures we both work full time so we should split home chores equally.

I think you know the answer to your question and are posting for reassurance. I would think long and hard about what you are and are not willing to live with because if anything your SO will get worse not better. As far as when kids go.. plan to be on your own because that is where you will be.

Just because you have so many years invested in your relationship doesn't men you have to stay in it, nor do you have to seal the deal with marriage either. It is much easier to get out of boyfriend/girlfriend situation than a marriage and a lot cheaper too. There are too many fish in the sea to have to settle for a dud.

goeslikestink

Dec. 28, 2008, 04:20 AM

Thanks for all the replies. For some reason reading them makes me feel a little better, though I'm not really sure why.

The fight over the housework happens approximately every 3 months when I've just HAD IT. It's a continuing problem. I threatened to make a chore list once, and he said that would be fine, but I know like everything else it won't really make a difference. I hate cleaning, and as soon as we can afford it I can guarantee we will hire someone to clean, but right now it's not possible. And honestly, if I were a stay at home housewife or we had kids and I was a stay at home mom, I would be fine with doing the house/yard work. It bothers me more that we both work the same amount and we split all the bills, I think I actually pay a little more, but yet I do 100% of the house and yard work. It's like he does all the "relaxing" for both of us.

houses and homes and families are 50/50 you work and so does he and it should be a partnership in all things regarding the home and finances

And with the horses, when we can afford for me to hire a service I definitely will, but at the moment I rely on friends and family. I did find two friends who are going to feed for me those two nights, thank god. It would have been easier for me to ask them if I had known 2 weeks ago when his schedule was made though. I don't really expect him to "get into it" I just want a little help. I get really jealous about women who say their husbands always help unload the hay or help with fencing. He's usually inside on the couch. God he's lazy.

my so isnt horsey and doesnt help with them, i have fitted my horses and hobbies into my life style and also tuaght my kids one took it up the other didnt but they both had the opportunity
as regards to hobbies - ie horses, thats your hobby and your space and your repsonsilibity
as the same if he took up golf - thats his hobby his space and he finances that etc
not all partnerships have horses or even like horses horses like any other hobbie is a luxury and not a nessiticity so if one had to go due to fiance or family then they surely would as the family means more- ie kids or home or whatever- what do you put 1st type thing

Oh, and just to clarify, the reason we've been engaged so long is because of money as well. My parents have been unemployed and his were getting a divorce over the past 4 years. Thankfully, my dad has finally found gainful employment and now they have volunteered to pay for the reception, allowing us to finally tie the knot.

thats not an reason but an excuse------- gone are the days when the brides parents paid for such things and in with the new when its more jointly thought off ie so you parents off both
can cost heaps to get married, or you ca put the money on a home, sound liek you lving with a set of parents - ie yours

i didnt have any money when i got married and both my parents were working and one of his was, we paid for it ourselves as a partnership

if you have put marrying for so long then you have doubts as to where tis relationship is going
if you didnt have doubts as uncertainites-- you wouldnt post
as you would know full well what to do and when to do it--------
ask your self - is this working or not- and be truhtful- then deal with it

I've heard that sometimes guys like him improve in the housework area once there are kids involved?

hardly he expects you yo be a door mat---

Thomas_1

Dec. 28, 2008, 07:06 AM

Now this has got me thinking, will he EVER help AT ALL with the horses? I doubt it after all this time. It sounds to me like he's absolutely no interest in them whatsoever.

So what do you think? Sounds to me like he's also a bit of a lazy sod who doesn't mind living in a mess and thinks it's not his job to keep the place you share jointly clean and tidy. He's probably sussed out that if he just leaves it, then you'll do it.

Will he come around? Do pigs fly??

What can I say/do to get him to help a little with the horses and (god forbid) maybe clean a little around the house? If that is really what you want with no compromise then there's only one thing you can say and that is if he doesn't either he's out of there or you are.

Or how can I deal with his unhelpfulness around the house/horses? Hire a cleaner and get him to pay for that and hire some help with the horse and you pay for that.

Chardavej

Dec. 28, 2008, 07:45 AM

You know I've been thinking. She said that her times with him are the best she's ever had, that they really love each other and she truly enjoys being with him and him with her.

It would be wonderful if he would help clean and feed when she needed him to, but he's not, nor ever will, and so far she has dealt with it. But for how long can she continue since they are arguing about it?

If it's something you can continue to handle to be with someone who otherwise brings you joy then stay. Surely he has other qualites and things he does that is a help to you in other areas? We can only hear one side.

Some of the suggestions here have been great, hire a pet sitting service that provides horse care, get a once a month maid. Eat cheap for a while to pay for this.

I don't know. Good luck. Me? I don't think I could do it. I can't STAND to clean and cook and such while someone sits around and contributes nothing, I just consider it extremely lazy, no matter how much fun we have otherwise, it would annoy me to no end, and eventually the bitterness would cross over to interfere with the fun times, and this might happen to you.

saje

Dec. 28, 2008, 08:58 AM

OP, my husband is a lot like yours. He loves animals, he too will move frogs (well, toads - they're everywhere!) out of the driveway, and HE added the 10th cat to our household, and pushed me to buy another horse when we were already feeding 6.

But he has never cleaned a litterbox, will feed and let the dogs out only if I'm not home, and really hates to be asked to feed the horses though he will in a pinch, but only one or two days.

**I'm bolding this next part because you mentioned that he knows that your pets mean everything to you, as mine do to me - this may be the key:

He finally told me one day that he is *terrified* to be left in charge of the animals because he knows how much they mean to me, and he's afraid that he'll screw up and something will die and that I'll never forgive him for it, or worse, leave him. He really means that too.

So I don't ask him do do the horses very often, and when I do I make it as simple as I can for him.

What he DOES do for me (and no, it isn't housework either) is to support my animal addiction unconditionally. When finances were really scary last year, I was ready to sell horses and euthanize my retirees because feeding them is ungodly expensive. HE said no, we'll make it work, and he did. There was a time when we both worked full time, plus I did most of the house chores. Now he earns 99% of the money, and I do EVERYTHING else. In exchange for that, I get my horses, my cats, the dogs, and the freedom to go to shows, buy equipment as needed, and pretty much do as I please. We do a lot together, I do stuff on my own, and when I have to be gone I arrange horse care and occasionally dog care too.

We've been together for 28 years, married for 17, and it's not how I saw my life when we started out together, but on the whole I'm damned lucky.

Your marriage can work, but don't expect him to suddenly jump in to chores he's not comfortable with, just because you are now Mr & Mrs.

pAin't_Misbehavin'

Dec. 28, 2008, 09:05 AM

I think it's very likely that he's afraid of the horses, so no, he probably won't ever be much help with them. I think it's understandable that someone who didn't grow up around large animals would be a little leery of them, and your SO did see you get hurt because of, at least in his mind, a horse.

Anyway - I'd never dream of asking my DH to pay for my horses' upkeep, anymore than he'd hit me up for the money to buy a new saxophone. We keep finances separate and just pool enough funds for household expenses. We never argue about money that way.

The housework? Well, as others have said, he doesn't have much reason to change, does he, as long as you're doing it all.:) If I were in your place, I wouldn't lift another finger around the house till he got his butt in gear - but then I have an extremely high mess tolerance as long as it's indoors.:yes: If you can't shut your eyes to the chaos, though, I think you should add a maid's salary to the household budget (which he pays half of, remember).:)

I don't really see his being equine intolerant and housework handicapped as a reason to throw him back. But I do think you need to find a way to solve your difficulties over these issues before you marry him.

Come Shine

Dec. 28, 2008, 09:55 AM

God he's lazy.

I guess you could address "equine intolerant and housework handicapped" in order to solve these difficulties before you are married, if (big IF) he is motivated to change these things. If he's lazy and you're doing all the work, hey, as my son would say - that's pretty swwwweeeet.

You know that saying - you can't fix stupid? I don't think you can fix lazy either. If his better qualities trump lazy, that's super.

Have you heard of the book "He's Just Not That Into You"? May be worth a look-see.

sidepasser

Dec. 28, 2008, 10:02 AM

No the other half in this "partnership" is not going to "come around", he is what he is and that is all he will be. Very few people rise above their level of comfort to perform great miracles and feats of death defying activity..i.e. laundry. Especially when allowed to skate by for so long. Me, the boy would be nekkid and the clothes sent to Goodwill. But then again, I take a very dim view of people not being responsible for their own upkeep.

You gets what you got and expecting things to get better will only raise your blood pressure. You can't change him, he must want to change himself and obviously he's content to let you do the chores and the horses.

The horses are yours - he has no obligation to feed/water/pooperscoop or otherwise lift a hand to care for them. If he wanted to help, he would. Plain and simple.

After you are married I hope you learn to bite your tongue every time you want to throw a screaming fit over the household chores - old broncs don't change their ways.

texang73

Dec. 28, 2008, 10:11 AM

No, he won't... I had had horses for 30 years when I met my ex and he still never got it, that's partly why he's my ex...

Good luck.

JanM

Dec. 28, 2008, 10:15 AM

One other factor-I don't know how long you actually have lived in the same physical residence but depending on your state laws you might have a legal common law marriage. If you make any decisions about splitting up (not that you will) you need to consult an attorney about your legal situation. You might not actually have to do a wedding ceremony, and can just do a party/reception for your friends. If you are already legally married then you can have a ceremony anywhere and with anyone presiding and could save a lot of money (I was shocked to find out that many churches charge a ton of money and more for additional services even to long term members) by going with a public facility you rent, or some alternative that's cheaper. And don't forget the destination wedding that combines the wedding and honeymoon in some exotic location.

armandh

Dec. 28, 2008, 10:26 AM

Men marry women hoping they won't change and women marry men hoping they will.

All I can say is good luck with it. :)

+1

I am sure there are a few pluses for I can not reason why one would enter a totally one sided relationship.
later posted I see you made other arrangements for the horse care and can enjoy the family visit.
they are your horses. it is not we that acquired horses they came with you.
conversely you are not required to take care of his stuff.
and don't be self delusional expecting kids to change him!

Sakura

Dec. 28, 2008, 10:32 AM

This thread had really helped me appreciate my SO on a whole new level... :yes:.

galwaybay

Dec. 28, 2008, 10:42 AM

Okay I re=read some of the OP's posts and once again the Miss Manners is coming out in me. First - after 9.5 years of togetherness, being engaged for 4 (because of parents employment issues??) and living together for 3.5 - sorry but the 2 of you has exceeded the time limit for parents paying for wedding/reception - helping out? Yes if they want to but quite honestly the 2 of you should pay for it yourself. Also, please do not except friends or relatives to provide you w/ entirely new sets of china, crystal or please do not write on invitations that since you have been engaged/living together for 4 years and we have everything we need we want guests to send us to Hawaii for our honeymoon. Sorry honey that is just wrong. Okay enough of this lecture.

I can get that your SO does not want to help w/ the horse thing and doesn't contribute to it financially or physically. What's going to happen when you can't do much because you are 8 months pregnant, 9 mos and just given birth. Ditto w/ household chores. Are you in a position financially to pay for help? If so I would see about getting someone to help w/ the horses/farm on a semi-regular basis. If he doesn't like that then he has a choice 1) Help out or 2) butt out.

I am again expressing my concern over your financial situation - meaning is this a farm you're renting, you own - is it owned jointly or your own place. All I can say is one of the worst things a woman can do is turn over all of her money/finances to a man... do the yours, mine and ours banking approach...

Anne FS

Dec. 28, 2008, 10:42 AM

How can I not marry a guy who shoos frogs out the driveway so we don't smush them with the car?

Uh, he does this so they don't get on his tires.

I do know ONE couple with a successful relationship where he literally NEVER sets foot in the barn - she runs it completely, including arranging care when she is away. But in this case she is a young, drop-dead gorgeous second wife (stay-at-home) and he is a wealthy executive. It works for them. She gets to play all day in her gorgeous barn with her fantastic horses and he does what he does and when he comes home the two of them have a blast together. (This guy was an executive where I worked, which is how I knew them, and both of them are really wonderful, fun, kind people - just great). A couple times he forgot something at home and she'd run it over to the office and the office men would go NUTS seeing her in her breeches and boots with that long blonde hair swinging - LOL!

In the OP's case - this guy has it great - no housework, no help with the kitties or the horses or anything, can whine and fuss when asked to lend a hand to someone who presumably is the love of his life - he has a bed partner and no marriage commitment - and it's been this way for a decade - why on EARTH would he change a thing?!?!?!

Edited to add: in my example, the husband paid the bill for everything, and was proud to do so - I think he thought it well worth it when she came to the office and everybody else was jealous. JK, really - when I knew them they'd been married over 10 years and I believe genuinely loved and cared for each other.

Lori B

Dec. 28, 2008, 10:44 AM

1) find a good horsesitter.

2) stop cleaning up after him.

3) Get ready to find a new relationship.

Agree w/ red flags everywhere.

galwaybay

Dec. 28, 2008, 10:49 AM

CrzyCorgi

Dec. 28, 2008, 11:25 AM

The latter only, but he doesn't play golf. :eek::lol:

Just about spewed tea all over the lap top! LMAO :eek::lol::eek::lol:

Another vote for: Nope, he won't change....

yellowbritches

Dec. 28, 2008, 11:51 AM

I'm wondering if OP got got together w/ this guy when they were 15 or something...which would make them about 25.... If that's the case, my advice would be to quit playing house w/ this boy, go out and meet and date other people - if you decide you want to be together, then so be it.
The math would certainly work, huh? Couldn't live together until a few years ago. And this is not untypical behavior for high school sweethearts, especially coming from less than fantastic homes. "Oh, I'm so happy and our time together has been the best, blah, blah blah"...only because you don't know anything else! OP- If you guys are actually well into your 40s, I stand corrected (though, I still think this whole things smells rotten).

Sorry, I am a little cynical about relationships in general and marriage in particular, partly because I hear some version of THIS STORY so often....right before the "then we got divorced" part. My inclination is to tell you to dump his lazy ass (after following an earlier poster's advice and checking into common law marriage laws), and go out and date and have fun and forget about marriage for awhile! But, again, I tend to be a cynical bitch with this type of thing. :yes:

katarine

Dec. 28, 2008, 12:04 PM

They are not his horses so they are not his problem. Hire someone to feed them when you're away.

As for the rest of your life- you are choosing to live with a man who doesn't care to participate in caring for his home, his clothes, his yard, etc. He doesn't hire it done, which would be reasonable I guess. Instead he's perfectly content to let you sweat it all, and you're content - 9 years plus- to do it all.

Your past is your future, you decide if you like how it works. Me? I think you're crazy and he's lazy. I'd rather be alone than clean up after a sloth.

LexInVA

Dec. 28, 2008, 12:09 PM

Dec. 28, 2008, 12:14 PM

He should WANT to feed the horses (unless he's terrified of them) BECAUSE he loves her and wants to help her. Doesn't matter if they are his horses or not. You try to make life better for those you love and if occasionally feeding horses will do it then you DO it.
Girl, you'd better do some serious thinking. It'll get worse after he has "papers on you".
Personally I'd let him wash his own clothes. If he doesn't do it....oh well.

EponaRoan

Dec. 28, 2008, 12:16 PM

Just about spewed tea all over the lap top! LMAO :eek::lol::eek::lol:

Another vote for: Nope, he won't change....

You guys said balls! [/bevis&butthead] :lol::lol::lol:

No, he won't change. I can understand a bit on the horses, but the housework? No. Not if you're both working full time. Unless you just really really like doing all the house and yard stuff and working too. And when/if you have a child, it'll be just like having two kids instead of one, because I'm betting he won't be an active co-parent. If you're content with that, then go for it with the knowledge that he is who he is and isn't going to change.

yellowbritches

Dec. 28, 2008, 12:20 PM

Have we become some sort of marriage/relationship obsessed society in the last twenty years? It seems like there's a huge emphasis these days on getting hitched and making babies before you hit 30. For an equestrian, that might as well be a death sentence unless your significant other works in the horse industry or a business relating to the horse industry.
I wonder if it is a cyclical type thing. When our parents (well, at least mine) were kids, you got married and started a family. As some said, girls went to college to find a husband. :rolleyes: So, I wonder if the trend is swinging back around. Also depends a lot, I think, in how you were raised. I know a lot of the church going, God fearing kids that I grew up with that stayed that way were hot to trot to find the love of their life and get married. That's what you DO. God's plan and all, ya know (can I tell you how many of those marriage obsessed teens I freaked out when I would often say "Who needs marriage?! :lol:).

I think marriage is overrated. It can be totally worth it and wonderful, but I think it being THE goal is highly overrated.

War Admiral

Dec. 28, 2008, 12:21 PM

No, he won't change. I can understand a bit on the horses, but the housework? No. Not if you're both working full time. Unless you just really really like doing all the house and yard stuff and working too. And when/if you have a child, it'll be just like having two kids instead of one, because I'm betting he won't be an active co-parent. If you're content with that, then go for it with the knowledge that he is who he is and isn't going to change.

Word.

Gestalt

Dec. 28, 2008, 12:57 PM

As far as the horses go, I would be perturbed that he won't do anything for them, especially on a very sporadic basis. It's not like you're asking him to feed everyday, just for a couple. The whole point of being in a relationship is to have a partner. And doing things that you don't want to do is part of that.

Caitlin

Exactly, if my partner won't help me out, he's not really my "partner". It's not like you're asking him to teach your class. Marriage should be a give and take, but to each their own. Good luck.

anita m

Dec. 28, 2008, 01:29 PM

If you do end up marrying this guy, I certainly hope you don't plan to have kids. I can only imagine his response when it's time to change a diaper or feed them. It sounds like you will be doing all the work yourself.

Agree with everyone else about the red flags.

I imagine it would be hard to break up after 9 years, but it seems like he really isn't all that involved in your relationship, and I don't understand why each of your parent's situations would have any impact on whether or not you two get married. How old are you guys?

BEARCAT

Dec. 28, 2008, 01:41 PM

OP, let's hear some of the pros about Mr. Wonderful, because honestly, I am not sold on him!

13 years ago, I had a very simple (aka "cheap") wedding with family and friends, good food and good times.
My husband is totally non horsey, and frankly would probably prefer not to have the giant creatures in the backyard, but he supports me! If I am ever away, he will feed - and volunteer to do so.
I don't make him come to those boring shows, but am excited when he offers to.
He trusts me to make financial decisions about the beasts and that I won't go overboard (and I don't!)
I am sure he totally fails to comprehend why I just had a Thoroughbred shipped from accross the country, bought sight unseen, but again, he knows I know what I am doing, trusts and supports me.
He also knows he does not know enough and refrains from buying me horse related items such as tack, etc, which indubitably would end up being the wrong size, color, etc.

On another note, how complicated is your feeding program?
When I am gone, and wether hubby or horsey friends are feeding, all they have to do is chuck hay over the fence into feeders. No need to go in the pens, or mess with grain, supplements, etc. I figure my horses will cope just fine for a few days (and they've always done just great.)

I won't even address the lazy slob part. If it's something you can live with, do. If you already find it irritating, it's only going to get worse...

Penthilisea

Dec. 28, 2008, 02:53 PM

In the words of the illustrious Dan Savage, DTMFA. (look it up...)

DO you really want a lifetime relationship with someone who doesn't "get" your passion? I don't mean share them, he doesn't need his own horse and saddle and muck boots, but he does need to know a. how important your horses are to you, and b. why.
If he won't even clean the litter, would he notice if one of the kitties has a abcess while you are away? Will he take it to the vet? On his own, would he get his act together enough to spay and neuter his animals? Get them yearly checkups and shots?
If you aren't SURE then I say thats a bad sign. Pets are great, but they are a responsibility. If he is only in it for the good fun cuddle sweet time, with no attention or inclinication to accept the responsibilities- DTMFA.

Find a guy who is passionate about something and who accepts you and your passion. Be mututally supportive, not codependant.

Quinn

Dec. 28, 2008, 03:05 PM

Are you kidding me???

http://community.webshots.com/user/ballyduff

tja789

Dec. 28, 2008, 03:14 PM

Ruth, I feel badly for you because you sound like a nice, very reasonable person. And your fiance sounds like a loser. Not doing any housework is a very big problem in a marriage since the cooking, cleaning, etc are there, in your face, EVERY SINGLE DAY. You WILL get sick of being his servant 24/7/365, and as others have pointed out, children will make things vastly more difficult for you. If he is such a big softie at heart, why doesn't he show any consideration for you or have any sense of fairness and responsibility? There are better guys out there! Your relationship is not happy/normal/wonderful; it sounds borderline pathological. You deserve better.

Sakura

Dec. 28, 2008, 04:30 PM

Ashby

Dec. 28, 2008, 05:50 PM

This relationship is a divorce waiting to happen.
But go ahead, get married anyway. Your attorney wants a new Jaguar, and the legal costs of your divorce will help pay for one.

I wish to God and back again that someone had shaken me by the shoulders before I married my X. I sounded exactly like the OP. "Oh, he's wonderful. He's really so sweet, just a big softie inside. He just doesn't have the same ideas about housework and cleanliness that I do. I just need to make him understand how important it is to my asthma that I live in a clean environment. He'll come around someday, I'm sure of it. Meanwhile, I don't mind struggling with the kids, house, yard, and work while he sits in front of the computer. He's so brilliant, you know."

So often "he's wonderful" is a polite way of saying "he's wonderful in bed."

No, OP, he is not going to change. He's a spoiled boy. You pick up after him, clean the place, never bother him about the horses, cook dinner, shop, do the yardwork, perform a full-time job and contribute at least half of the money to keep the operation going, and all he has to do is watch TV and go to bed with you. Why would anybody change a great deal like that? The very fact that he hasn't been on his knees begging you to marry him means that he doesn't want to change the status quo. If you want change, you're going to have to be the one who changes.

I'm not saying you must necessarily throw him out. If you don't have the strength to stand up for yourself, a therapist can help you. Maybe if you go into therapy and discover your inner strengths, you can change the relationship.

Sakura

Dec. 28, 2008, 06:58 PM

Ruth,

Please read my signature line... ;)

evenstar

Dec. 28, 2008, 07:45 PM

I do agree that the horses are yours to deal with, but how hard is it really to do a little short term care of horses that are in a run-in shed situation. Not that hard to toss hay over the fence and look at the water trough to make sure they have water. Even a non-involved SO should be able to cope with that. Isn't marriage at least in part about doing things for one's partner just to be nice?

But if he doesn't want to even do that minimal thing, then fine, hire someone more knowledgeable and give him a pass on the horses. Just not his thing.

But I've got to go with Ashby's take on the rest.
[QUOTE][No, OP, he is not going to change. He's a spoiled boy. You pick up after him, clean the place, never bother him about the horses, cook dinner, shop, do the yardwork, perform a full-time job and contribute at least half of the money to keep the operation going, and all he has to do is watch TV and go to bed with you. Why would anybody change a great deal like that? The very fact that he hasn't been on his knees begging you to marry him means that he doesn't want to change the status quo. If you want change, you're going to have to be the one who changes.
/QUOTE]

Hey, I'd be in a committed relationship today if all I had to bring to it was watching TV and going to bed with the guy! Alas, I've found that most guys also want me to do silly stuff like cook, wash dishes, and clean the house. Oh well. Fortunately, my kitty is happy just as long as I clean his litter box. He doesn't care if I leave dishes in the sink.

TB or not TB?

Dec. 28, 2008, 08:21 PM

On a less ball-washing and more serious note (though some could argue that both are of high importance), if you're 26 now OP, that means that you've been dating this guy since you were 16. Have you had any other serious relationships to compare and contrast with? I'm a couple years younger than you, but have had at least two relationships that bordered on marriage, but in the end, decided that neither guy was going to do it for me. Both were fantastic men and I'm sure they will make great husbands, but I wasn't willing to commit my whole life to either. One was needed constant direction about doing ANY sort of chores and would make faces about it afterward, and even though he was great with horses and helped out in the barn, I always felt like the mom and not the girlfriend in that aspect. The other contributed cheerfully to household tasks even without being asked, but was concerned with the amount of time I devoted to pursuits other than him - which would have eventually become resentment. For a non-horsey gal he would have been great.

Obviously you're the one living your path, and nothing any of us say will make you change your mind, but if you're having doubts NOW, ask if you will be still happy in 10 years when you have a few kids who require way more attention than your horses, and your SO is still playing video games. Are you going to hire a live-in nanny while you go out of town? (FWIW, I don't think the spouse necessarily HAS to help with the horses, especially if fear or competence is an issue, but it's the sentiment behind the actions that I find disconcerting in this case). The first ex I mentioned is still one of my best friends and is now in another committed relationship, but he had some time living on his own and finishing school and paying all his own expenses to GROW UP a bit, which he couldn't do when I did everything.

joharavhf

Dec. 28, 2008, 09:14 PM

I'm certainly not going to give you marriage advice or tell you to walk away! You are the one who knows your relationship the most!

My hubby and I have been together for 11 years in January - married for 6 years as of December 31st :D I think it goes to say that ALL BFs or SOs start off "more interested" in your hobbies in the beginning. That's normal and I wouldn't worry that he's "sliding" now as things are more serious and comfortable. However - is he making excuses because he does not want to do the horsey things? Or is he just being a guy and forgetting???? My husband is usually the latter. And he doesn't LOVE taking care of the horses but he'll do it if I need him to.

All that said, I would be worried if this fiancee doesn't truly support you in your riding endeavours....Maybe he doesn't love it, but he doesn't mind you loving it. I think that's HEALTHY. But if he is jealous of the horses and resentful - that's another thing entirely. I had a very good friend whose hubby didn't support her riding and they ended up divorced a year after they married :(

As for the housework. LOL.........Here's the deal we work out in our house - we do our own laundry. If my hubby runs out of laundry - that's HIS problem. Not mine. (We have a 4 1/2 year old daughter - I do her laundry.) He cooks. I do dishes. We clean together. I take care of the horses 99.95% of the time.

You have to work out these details in your own relationship to both of your satisfaction. But if you truly are in love with eachother, you will work it out and you'll be fine.

Touchstone Farm

Dec. 28, 2008, 10:00 PM

"Oh, and just to clarify, the reason we've been engaged so long is because of money as well. My parents have been unemployed and his were getting a divorce over the past 4 years. Thankfully, my dad has finally found gainful employment and now they have volunteered to pay for the reception, allowing us to finally tie the knot.

I've heard that sometimes guys like him improve in the housework area once there are kids involved?"

This just doesn't add up for me, at least for two adults deciding to get married. You need someone else to pay for the reception which finally "allows" you to tie the knot? And while this is just me, if my dad had finally found gainful employment, I'm sure there are things that he and your mom have done without for awhile. The last thing I'd want them to spend their money on is a reception.

The other thing you mentioned is that you really enjoy your SO's company and that when you're on vacation together 24/7 you have a great time. To me, that's not a sign that you will live happily ever after. Vacations are times when you get away from the day-to-day stresses and activities of daily life, so you should have fun and get along!

I'm sure you are feeling like you are getting beaten up by a lot of BB "Dr. Phil's," but I think people are just trying to help. There's been some good advice given here. Might be worth a serious sit-down conversation with your fiance. If you aren't comfortable doing that or he puts it off...you might have your answer!

Touchstone Farm

Dec. 28, 2008, 10:03 PM

Does your SO expect/ask you to wash is golf clubs or wash his balls? Does he expect/ask you to vacum out the dirty muddy floors of his truck when he gets back from hunting?

Does he ask you to change the oil in his tractor while he is away for the weekend?

When will you gals learn to just love us guys for who we are without trying to change us?;)

Okay, I don't know why no one has picked up on this except me...but I dearly love my husband, but I won't wash his golf clubs and I certainly draw the line at washing his balls.

hiddenlake

Dec. 28, 2008, 10:49 PM

I dearly love my husband, but I won't wash his golf clubs and I certainly draw the line at washing his balls.

Ahhh, but if you did I bet it would really make his putter stand up.

(apologies to the late Johnny Carson....)

HighFlyinBey++

Dec. 28, 2008, 10:54 PM

You WILL get sick of being his servant 24/7/365...If he is such a big softie at heart, why doesn't he show any consideration for you or have any sense of fairness and responsibility?

That's a very good point to consider.

I'm in my late 30s. I had a platonic roommate who was in his mid-20s. He was very nice, caring, horsey & pet-friendly. We got along well. Unfortunately, his idea of housekeeping and mine were galaxies apart. I don't think he ever noticed things like no TP, garbage day, his own dirty dishes or the that the shared bathroom needed cleaning. I think he either simply could not see they needed doing or had no concept that he was expected to pitch in with household chores. I said nothing & ended up harboring serious resentment toward his lack of housekeeping skills & his lack of consideration for how I kept my "stuff," although everything else about living with him was fine. He recently moved out for reasons not related to housekeeping. My stress level is much lower. I'll get second job before I chance another roommate :yes:

Without two-way communication, little things become big things. What just annoys you now will make you bitter later on. It will eat at you until you become a shadow of your former self. NAGGING DOES NOT WORK. He'll come to resent you as much as you do him.

You have to work out these details in your own relationship to both of your satisfaction. But if you truly are in love with each other, you will work it out and you'll be fine.

I couldn't agree more!

TB or not TB?

Dec. 28, 2008, 11:11 PM

Okay, I don't know why no one has picked up on this except me...but I dearly love my husband, but I won't wash his golf clubs and I certainly draw the line at washing his balls.

:lol::lol: I did post on page 4 about this, but it can always bear repeating. :D

kellyb

Dec. 28, 2008, 11:20 PM

galwaybay

Dec. 28, 2008, 11:54 PM

I think we chased the OP away - has not posted as far as I know... hopefully she will heed some of the advice and not run to honey pie (as so many do) because some of us called her SO a lazy sod. The only other advice I can suggest is for her to spend an afternoon watching Court TV shows - meaning Judge Judy, Judge Mathis, People's Court... then when done w/ that watch Lifetime TV...

I have a lot of friends whose spouses are just not into horses, however, when it is important, they are there for them. One of my friends - when she first got married hubby was at every show all day... went to the award banquets and everything (now that's a way to kill a relationship -honey lets go to an awards banquet :lol:) now if a show's close by he'll usually come by for breakfast and/or lunch which is very cute.

I'm going to close my post with something a friend of mine told me about her husband and how she knew he was the one... basically she said she just knew that he was who she wanted to grow old with -nothing about romance, lust or passion (now she's been married over 30 years so at this point she may have left the lust out) but anyway her husband was who she pictured and felt comfortable growing old with.. now I will ask the OP is this SO someone who you want to grow old with? really think about it.

I'm sure I speak for all of us when we say best wishes and luck to you

Amchara

Dec. 29, 2008, 12:56 AM

I'd like to thank the above posters for sharing their infinite wisdom, making me feel a bit better about myself, and almost ruining this nice, wireless key board :lol:.

OP, I wish you luck

DairyQueen2049

Dec. 29, 2008, 07:06 AM

Ahhh, but if you did I bet it would really make his putter stand up.

(apologies to the late Johnny Carson....)

Diet Coke ALLOVER keyboard.

OP - count up the replies - all this great advice! - and I bet you'll find that 99% here think Mr Awesome is Mr Loser. Why? Experience.

Unfortunately, most people do not listen to great advice.

So, I do hope there are many things in YOUR name, including your horses, cuz when the divorce comes HE will want the $$ value of those too. :winkgrin:

TheJenners

Dec. 29, 2008, 12:55 PM

Am I the only one who read the OP and thought, "why does she expect him to take care of the horses, be interested, etc, if they aren't his thing?" I don't expect my BF to even ask about horses. When I was married, my ex said he wanted to help, but he always did such a bad job I could tell he didn't want to and was trying to get out of it, so I stopped asking and <gasp> I didn't resent it. They weren't his thing. Not his fault.

Hire a barn sitter when you're gone. A SO isn't free labor, especially if he or she isn't interested in something. Will your fella turn around? I'm going to say no, and I also think he sounds lazy. That's just me though, coming from a marriage where I did all the cooking, the cleaning, the yard work, the horses AND held down a job...it sucked. But he could beat all the levels of his PS2 game :rolleyes:

Cherry

Dec. 29, 2008, 01:00 PM

If you want someone to share your passion I would have to say that this is not the guy. Hey, he's tried to tell you but you don't seem to be interested in listening. I predict it won't be a happy marriage unless you're willing to dump the horses. ;)

I'm on my second marriage so I think I can speak from experience. My first husband actually owned a horse but was a jerk.... My second husband used to be scared of horses but overcame it on his own and helped me out on several occasions without even being asked to (he even haltered and led my mare back and forth to turnout many times). When I told my second husband I thought I should sell my horse he forbade it (because he knew how much I loved my horse and I'd be utterly miserable if I sold her). Now this is the kind of guy you need!!!! One that is willing to allow you to love someone besides him.... :uhoh:

I'd hire a barn sitter too, but that won't help the underlying problem.

purplnurpl

Dec. 29, 2008, 01:06 PM

Sigh. I just want one of those SO's that likes tractors and moving giant piles of poop from one side of the yard to the other and knows how to use a hammer.

They do exist you know.
My mother endured 22 years of a terrible marriage. That ended and she found the man of her dreams that loves the horses, welds the fences, turns the arena, and kicks shit.
Was a shame she had to wait so long. And now we are all left with emotional baggage from my paternal person.

It's one thing if your SO doesn't want to take care of the horses. It's another thing if he's going to give you are hard time about the horses. And it's even another if he is not dependable.
Make sure he knows what he's in for.

I was engaged once. We were going through some very slight money troubles and he asked me to cancel the check I wrote for the Lucinda Green Clinic.

I shoved my boot up his butt and kicked him out.

Even though so many things were great, just the fact that he asked me to do that meant he didn't know me at all. I didn't think twice about my decision.

Lady Counselor

Dec. 29, 2008, 01:21 PM

As far as the horses go, I do not expect my husband to do anything.
He does come out and help me though, usually Sunday mornings and will put them in and feed during the week when I am at work. I am very grateful that he does that, because he could choose not to and I would not be angry with him for it.
It is a big help that he does it, and I think he enjoys it too.
Because he helps me, I also help him. Painting rooms at his business so he doesn't have to hire someone to do it, helping when he is shorthanded at work, taking care of a lot of the outside maintenence, redoing interior rooms on my own so we save money, helping when working on the racecars, etc. It's part of being a partnership.
We also share the household duties.
I haven't read through this entire thread, but I did see where you were doing the lion's share of that. Unless you are fulfilled in that arrangement, you may want to consider getting some premarital counseling sessions to help weather any storms that may blow up after the license is final.
Because it IS different once it's 'official'.
We did the counseling, and it has helped us a lot. We just passed the 10 year mark.

Rienzi

Dec. 29, 2008, 01:30 PM

Getting married is easy. Having a good marriage is WORK. Hard work, sometimes. If he's "God, he's lazy" lazy, what are the chances he will work at having a good marriage?

easyklc

Dec. 29, 2008, 01:53 PM

OP I really cringe reading your post. I'm sure I'm old enough to be your mother, and if not I have at least had enough experience with loser partners to know this is REALLY not about the horses. They are simply the sign of all the worse, dysfunctional things to come. You're not going to change and either is he.

Someone wisely said earlier that you need to marry your best friend, and make it someone who truly gets your passion and is willing to back you up no questions asked. Settling for someone who would rather blankly lay around tells me you are in over your head. Honestly I don't think you can expect him to take care of the horses. Nor should you! It's your thing! If you have too many to afford having care while you're gone, then you too have to think about cutting back.

No woman should EVER depend on someone else financially. Be entirely self sufficient before it goes bad.

I've been with my sweetheart for 18 years. SO is not a horse person, but understands my affliction and supports it no matter what. I choose not to keep the horse at home because I know it is not something my partner would be willing to take on. So, instead I board. Worth every penny.

Rienzi

Dec. 29, 2008, 02:18 PM

Yellowbritches, I see you've made 5,000 posts!

2DogsFarm

Dec. 29, 2008, 02:48 PM

And my mom said, "Don't marry a man because he has qualities you admire, but because he has annoying habits that you can live with."

You won't change him and a ring on his finger won't either.

DingDingDing!!!!!
The prize goes to your Mom, subk!
And a ring is just jewelry not a committment to changing your lifestyle.

OP: don't expect marriage to be a Magic Wand. After nearly 10 years the two of you have set a pattern that will require BOTH of you agreeing to change. Doesn't sound like SO has any interest in changing.
If he's not a horseperson in any way, shape or form after so long don't expect marriage to make him see that light.
Your horses, your responsibility - period-end-of-sentence.
Good Luck with the rest of your issues.

Trevelyan96

Dec. 29, 2008, 03:11 PM

He also doesn't help with cleaning the house, or mowing the lawn, weed whacking, fencing, etc. I do all that. I also do 90% of the cooking, and pick up after him. All I ever really ask him to do is empty the dishwasher and clean up his laundry. At the moment, the dishwasher's been full of clean dishes since Christmas and his clean laundry is in 2 baskets next to the dryer and has been there for over a week. His dirty laundry is in his closet.

So what do you think? Will he come around? What can I say/do to get him to help a little with the horses and (god forbid) maybe clean a little around the house? Oh, and we both work full time jobs, and since I'm a NEW teacher, I definitely spend at least 40 hours a week at work.

Or how can I deal with his unhelpfulness around the house/horses?

Sigh. I just want one of those SO's that likes tractors and moving giant piles of poop from one side of the yard to the other and knows how to use a hammer.

The only advice I can give here is look for a new SO. hE sounds like a selfish one, and THEY DON'T CHANGE!

"A woman marries a man hoping he'll change, and he doesn't. A man marries a woman hoping she won't change, and she does"

Mr. Trevelyan has no interest in the horses at all, and at times I think he resents them a bit, but he'll still feed on weekends so I can sleep in, has put up miles of fencing (well, to hear him describe it, LOL) has paid for a ton of equipment, does laundry, mows, and weed wacks.

Don't put yourself in the position of being the only person willing to put love and labor into your home. If he's not handy around the house, then he should be kicking in some $$$ to pay someone else to help you.

caffeinated

Dec. 29, 2008, 03:12 PM

Hire a barn sitter when you're gone. A SO isn't free labor, especially if he or she isn't interested in something.

Except... that's how he's treating her, apparently.

OP... As far as him not being into the horses- that's fine. He doesn't have to be. But that means (IMO) you don't have to be "into" being his domestic servant, either.

As far as marriage and all that, if the timeline I saw here is right (you're 26 and have been with this man for about 10 years) than I will offer one piece of advice that my godmother gave me. You can't be in a real relationship until you've learned to take care of yourself. That means being single, independent, and learning to survive not just physically/financially but emotionally as well. Otherwise, you never learn who you are, and if you don't know, what can you give a relationship?

It sounds cheesy. But I think it might be true.

In any case, I think it's OK for the SO to not be into horses. But I don't think it's OK for you to be doing 99% of the work that's involved in daily living without getting much reciprocation. I don't know how you fix that, except to stop doing his laundry and leaving his dishes in the sink. But some people never "get" that (it's never worked on my stepfather, or my brothers, for that matter).

LarissaL

Dec. 29, 2008, 03:12 PM

I was engaged once. We were going through some very slight money troubles and he asked me to cancel the check I wrote for the Lucinda Green Clinic.

I shoved my boot up his butt and kicked him out.

Even though so many things were great, just the fact that he asked me to do that meant he didn't know me at all. I didn't think twice about my decision.

He seems to be a pretty decent guy.. didn't dump YOU when you couldn't sacrifice one clinic to ease some pressure on your relationship :winkgrin:

As for the OP, I'm sure I sound the same about my boyfriend when we've just had an argument. All of the little annoyances seem so much larger than life and my angry brain has trouble coming up with nicer things to say than that he doesn't squash frogs :lol: Maybe the frustration has just passed and she's done with hearing what a loser her fiance is?

pAin't_Misbehavin'

Dec. 29, 2008, 03:47 PM

All of the little annoyances seem so much larger than life and my angry brain has trouble coming up with nicer things to say than that he doesn't squash frogs :lol:

:lol: My dear departed very southern grandmother, when asked her opinion of someone she considered a worthless example of manhood, would reply, "Well, he certainly writes a clear hand." I guess "He doesn't drive the car over frogs" is the modern equivalent of damning with faint praise.:D

Hampton Bay

Dec. 29, 2008, 04:33 PM

LOL... I really thought that said ERECTION. :lol: I couldn't figure out how that would be your fault?

hahaha, though i don't get how the election is my fault either. not like my one vote decided anything!

pandorasboxx

Dec. 29, 2008, 04:37 PM

I can't think of a single reason for you to even be dating this guy much less marrying him. Don't you know the world is full of fun guys with whom you can have great times and even fall in love with?

Lazy, non-weed whacking, non-cleaning guys who can't be bothered to look after the horses while you are briefly out of town wouldn't even rate a coffee date in my book much less access to a booty call and a hot dinner.

Married life can be long and hard with even the best man. Why settle for a such a lacking partner? Don't you think you rate much better?

Speedy

Dec. 29, 2008, 05:02 PM

It absolutely, positively will not get better. You either have to accept him as he is and get over his faults, or move on b/c it will only get worse as he becomes more comfortable with the relationship.

That said, I am a believer in self-reflection, and so I encourage you, as you are examining this guy's faults, to examine your own. If he were posting on a bb looking for advice about his relationship with you, what would he be likely to say is driving him crazy about you? There is always another side to the story and I think you have to take that into account before kicking him to the curb.

I also have to say that you sound, well, really young to me. Not having money for a reception, and waiting around for your parents to improve their financial situation so that they can fund one for you, is, honestly, a really strange, and strangely immature, reason for not getting married. That just really struck me when I read it earlier. And the idea that KIDS of all things will improve the situation??? I just don't even know what to say to that, it is so incredibly naive.

I think the care of your horses for 2 nights is the least of your problems.

Sakura

Dec. 29, 2008, 05:59 PM

You said your a teacher? Apply to teach for the DoD school system... lease your horses out or sell them... travel the world, gain some independence, date men in England, France, Italy... You are young and can still kick up your heals... have fun and enjoy life before you become someones "old lady"!

Sansena

Dec. 29, 2008, 06:17 PM

So forgive me if what I say is no longer appropriate, BUT..

Your SO needs a 'Come-To-Jesus' about your horses and the house NOW. I mean, in no uncertain terms, with no perceived grey area for him to waffle on.

My DH (before marriage - and the first few months into it) kept referring to my horses as my 'hobby'. HELLO... I had spent 25 yrs working in the industry when we met, had owned horses pretty much since the age of 17 (we were 41 when we married).. there was no way any rational human being could interperate the horses as a simply 'hobby' for me. And I told him so.

It basically came down to a conversation in which I told him he realized this was part of who I AM, and he could either accept it, which meant providing assistance and support when I asked... or we could annul the marriage and call it a day.

He still leaves his dirty socks on the floor next to the laundry shoot, but I never hear him grumble about the ponies anymore. But he could've just as easily walked.. and I would've been heartbroken, but nobody... NOBODY is going to come between me and the horses.

Touchstone Farm

Dec. 29, 2008, 08:15 PM

:lol::lol: I did post on page 4 about this, but it can always bear repeating. :D

How did I miss that?! Glad someone beat me to it...it was just too obvious to have to wait until my much later post!

ROB

Dec. 29, 2008, 09:39 PM

War Admiral

Dec. 29, 2008, 09:43 PM

All well and good, Rob, but there's still no excuse in the world for him not cleaning up after himself.

caffeinated

Dec. 29, 2008, 09:46 PM

[quote=pandorasboxx;3762330]
Lazy, non-weed whacking, non-cleaning guys who can't be bothered to look after the horses while you are briefly out of town wouldn't even rate a coffee date in my book much less access to a booty call and a hot dinner.

quote]

WOW! I kinda feel bad for this guy getting blasted without even hearing his side of things. How about the fact this guy will be working during the SO's vacation. Is this his hobby? Does he have his own hobbies or do they come second to horses and the farm? We are only hearing part of the story.

Here is a hint for all you people that forget horses should NOT come before their SO's. Even men like to feel loved and possibly there is a bit of resentment of the horses.

I agree with you. And yes, he has to work. But if he's not going to help the love of his life out when she gave him plenty of notice, then maybe he should stop expecting her to clean his socks and do everything around the house too (or at least, maybe if he expects all this consideration, he needs to give some too, and empty the dishwasher when she's working late). :)

I think the main point is that a marriage has to be a partnership. Yep, there has to be some give and take on both sides. When you have one side doing a disproportionate amount of giving, that's when you get into these jams.

I hope things work out for the OP, if only so I don't feel like a shrill harpy in the "ditch the dude!" chorus.

But then again, when I think about how much I learned and how much I changed when I was single and completely self sufficient for a while, I kind of tend to think everybody should experience that at least once :)

pandorasboxx

Dec. 29, 2008, 09:49 PM

He doesn't have to do ANYTHING for them, again, unless I go to visit family (rare). He also doesn't help with cleaning the house, or mowing the lawn, weed whacking, fencing, etc. I do all that. I also do 90% of the cooking, and pick up after him. All I ever really ask him to do is empty the dishwasher and clean up his laundry. At the moment, the dishwasher's been full of clean dishes since Christmas and his clean laundry is in 2 baskets next to the dryer and has been there for over a week. His dirty laundry is in his closet.

Those actions right there would be enough to boot the guy. Add in a refusal to help at all with the horses especially if they are planning to get married, is a huge stop sign.

There are too many nice men out there who are much more independent, helpful and don't mind pitching in with the horses on occasion to deal with someone with these deal breaker issues.

My non-horsey SO has been known to tack up fence, muck a stall, clean a trailer and travel with me for the weekend to support me at my sport. It's done cheerfully and with little to no prodding. He does his own laundry, pitches in on the dishes, holds dominion over the outside of the house and will rustle up a dinner when I'm tired.

The OP is getting the way short end of the stick.

ROB

Dec. 29, 2008, 09:54 PM

Those actions right there would be enough to boot the guy. Add in a refusal to help at all with the horses especially if they are planning to get married, is a huge stop sign.

There are too many nice men out there who are much more independent, helpful and don't mind pitching in with the horses on occasion to deal with someone with these deal breaker issues.

My non-horsey SO has been known to tack up fence, muck a stall, clean a trailer and travel with me for the weekend to support me at my sport. It's done cheerfully and with little to no prodding. He does his own laundry, pitches in on the dishes, holds dominion over the outside of the house and will rustle up a dinner when I'm tired.

The OP is getting the way short end of the stick.

If he is the slacker as stated why stay so long. I think there is more to the story...

ROB

Dec. 29, 2008, 09:57 PM

Sigh. I just want one of those SO's that likes tractors and moving giant piles of poop from one side of the yard to the other and knows how to use a hammer.

I say go out and get what you want clearly your not compatable. Unless there is more to the story.

hiddenlake

Dec. 29, 2008, 10:19 PM

You two should put the other before yourself. If either of you can not then you shouldn't be together.

My parents were married for 55 years before Mom passed away. They went through their struggles but they came out much stronger for it. Mom always said that a good marriage is 90% give and 10% take. And of course that works both ways. When you meet the right person, you don't feel like it's a sacrifice to give that 90%. Most of the time it feels like a privilege just to be able to do so. Even in the most perfect marriage it's not always easy, but you know in your heart that your SO is willing to do the same for you.

If you feel like your partner is taking 90 and giving 10, either you're in the wrong relationship or you have very different ideas of what's important to each of you.

That 90% might include covering for each other, it might mean cleaning up, it might mean listening without judgment, and it might mean making quality time when there's not much time to work with. But you have to get on the same page as to what each other's values are.

I wish you all the luck in the world, and a relationship like my mom and dad had.

Dancing Lawn

Dec. 30, 2008, 07:20 AM

you want this man why???

only read your original post, but he sounds pretty useless to me.

unless of course, he is REALLY something super special in bed.

which STILL doesn't make up for all his other deficiencies.

his MANY other deficiencies.

sheesh.

Saidapal

Dec. 30, 2008, 08:41 AM

I've heard that sometimes guys like him improve in the housework area once there are kids involved?

On what planet? Usually the woman just winds up with more work.

No, he's not going to change.

MissintheSouth

Dec. 30, 2008, 09:39 AM

The horse stuff wouldn't bother me. My DH is non-horsey, I would NEVER expect (or even want) him to take care of my horse, and would absolutely never trust him to take care of them when I wasn't there to assist (er, tell him exactly what to do). It would be dangerous for one, since he has no "horse sense" and no real desire to obtain it. And I am totally fine with that.

But all the other stuff (the not pitching in around the house, acting like a lazy houseguest, etc) would end it for me. I remember once a friend of mine thought she found true love. When asked what about him made her love him, she said "He remembered to put lemon in my Diet Coke." The frog thing is on the same level.

Obviously the balance of power in this relationship is way out of whack!

MassageLady

Dec. 30, 2008, 09:41 AM

The fight over the housework happens approximately every 3 months when I've just HAD IT. It's a continuing problem. I threatened to make a chore list once, and he said that would be fine, but I know like everything else it won't really make a difference. I hate cleaning, and as soon as we can afford it I can guarantee we will hire someone to clean, but right now it's not possible. And honestly, if I were a stay at home housewife or we had kids and I was a stay at home mom, I would be fine with doing the house/yard work. It bothers me more that we both work the same amount and we split all the bills, I think I actually pay a little more, but yet I do 100% of the house and yard work. It's like he does all the "relaxing" for both of us.
Are you his fiance or his mother? Don't make a list-he won't do it...leave his dirty clothes where they are, when fixing dinner-fix your own, let him fend for himself, pretend to be single-he is! If a dirty house bothers him, let it get dirty, then dare him to say something about it. BECOME HIM...when he's sitting down watching TV, join him. When he's hungry and asking 'what's for dinner', say 'yea, I was wondering the same thing-what are YOU going to make??" Or say, I stopped on the way home and got myself something, you're perfectly capable of feeding yourself, your mother told me you started that when you were 1yr old:yes: Put it on HIM, Go have fun with your horses, perhaps you'll meet someone new at one of the horse shows.:lol:

galwaybay

Dec. 30, 2008, 10:31 AM

[quote=pandorasboxx;3762330]
Lazy, non-weed whacking, non-cleaning guys who can't be bothered to look after the horses while you are briefly out of town wouldn't even rate a coffee date in my book much less access to a booty call and a hot dinner.

quote]

WOW! I kinda feel bad for this guy getting blasted without even hearing his side of things. How about the fact this guy will be working during the SO's vacation. Is this his hobby? Does he have his own hobbies or do they come second to horses and the farm? We are only hearing part of the story.

Here is a hint for all you people that forget horses should NOT come before their SO's. Even men like to feel loved and possibly there is a bit of resentment of the horses.

You two should put the other before yourself. If either of you can not then you shouldn't be together. If ones hobby comes before their SO than why get married? I suggest you and the SO have a real heart to heart before you get married and end up wasting a lot of time out of the habbit of being together.

Peace,

Rob

I think most of us are on the so-he-doesn't-like-horses-hire/find a pet-sitter while your away..side of things. Its not some much not wanting to help w/ the horses as it is about the other stuff and his apparent unwillingness to help out around THEIR house... and whatever else those problems are.. but you are right maybe he has one of those shift jobs and works nights - so is a sloth during the day...

Vandy

Dec. 30, 2008, 10:47 AM

I was engaged once. We were going through some very slight money troubles and he asked me to cancel the check I wrote for the Lucinda Green Clinic.

I shoved my boot up his butt and kicked him out.
What if this had been posted by a man and had read, "I was engaged once. We were going through some very slight money troubles and she asked me to cancel the check I wrote for the Superbowl tickets.

I shoved my boot up her butt and kicked her out..."

IMO, it has to work both ways. If we're tight on money, I don't spend it on something that is an "extra" for me alone, no matter how important it is. Sorry, it sounds like the guy was not being selfish, just being practical.

This entire thread has made me appreciate my SO so much! Yes, he leaves his dirty socks on the floor, hardly ever does the dishes, and has cooked me exactly one meal in 2 years. Before he met me, his mother did his laundry, and now I do it :uhoh: However, he does more around the farm than anyone else. He can fix the tractor, fix my truck, fix the fence, cleans stalls like nobody's business (he says it's "relaxing" :eek:) and he doesn't even have to be asked or get resentful! If anything, he does more than I do, and often says to me in the morning, "you sleep in, I'll feed the horses." We've developed an extremely workable division of labor that suits both of us. After years with a shiftless ex-husband followed by years living with an SO who completely resented the horses, belive me, my current guy is such a refreshing change!

If I had to cancel a clinic because he needed to make a truck payment, I'd do it without a second thought.

katarine

Dec. 30, 2008, 10:56 AM

Amen Vandy!

I am so appreciative of my DH after going through some ratastic boyfriends that I filled in for WAAAY too much. One that stands out in my mind was a great date, so much fun, hot hot hot, fun times 4...but nowhere close to a grown up in terms of taking care of his share...he was always bargaining and justifying his inactions. Shoot, no way I'd have married that one. With my guy, I cook, he cleans up. If I start cleaning the bathrooms, he busts out the vacuum cleaner. He'll hit the grocery store if I've had a long day at the office, and I'll hit it if I know he wants to go take a boat ride. You put each other first when you can find a chance to do so. He didn't sleep well? I'm up making the coffee and feeding the cats to shut 'em up, so he can sleep. I'm tired out, he makes his own dinner and is glad to, and what can he get me while he's up. We DO share the horses as a hobby/fun thing...but we also help out/support each other in our own areas of interest, why? Because we love each other, that's why. Been together nearly 10 years, married since 2002. He's absolutely my best friend, my partner, my other half.

sid

Dec. 30, 2008, 11:18 AM

As the saying goes..."you can't change the spots on a leopard".

yellow-horse

Dec. 30, 2008, 11:19 AM

If you want to marry this guy, just accept he's not going to be of any help, it's less frustrating if you don't expect anything
I've so far seen 3 marriages break up over the horses, all of them over 10 years, husbands resented the horses from day one, so even if you don't expect any help from him, he still may give you some sort of ultimatum in the future

EponaRoan

Dec. 30, 2008, 11:23 AM

but you are right maybe he has one of those shift jobs and works nights - so is a sloth during the day...

That's no excuse. I generally work sort of a swing shift and manage to keep my house and yard nice. Dude is just lazy and since his fiancee/mommy will do everything, why should he?

LexInVA

Dec. 30, 2008, 11:24 AM

Getting married is like making soup. No matter what ingredients you throw in the pot, if they don't blend well together, the final product will always taste like shit in the end.

cowgirljenn

Dec. 30, 2008, 11:36 AM

The not helping around the house thing would bother me WAY more than the 'not horsey' thing. My husband isn't horsey, either, and I knew that going in. I used to wish he wanted to ride and such, but now that doesn't bother me. He helps out when I need with fix fencing (although it isn't his idea of fun), and he goes to get grain for me (since I can't drive). When I was on crutches, he did help out in the barn but it is SO not his thing. So when I travel, I try to arrange a pet-sitter to come help with at least one feeding. The horses aren't his responsibility, so I don't expect him to take care of them. I appreciate it when he helps out, but I don't expect it.

NOW - the house work thing kills me. My husband is not a neat guy. Some days, it drives me crazy. I used to have breakdowns about every three months. But now I just let the house get messy and if he says something about it, he can help clean up. But I can't expect him to suddenly become neat and clean because I want him to be.... so, my advice? have a heart-to-heart with him about sharing housework and if he doesn't pitch in, then don't do his share for him. *shrug* If he doesn't like having food to eat or clean clothes, he'll figure out how to make that happen without expecting you to do it all yourself.:) Go on strike. :)

magicteetango

Dec. 30, 2008, 11:52 AM

Come on now... He doesn't appreciate you. Must be nice to be waited on hand and foot since you were sixteen years old.

You need to get into a "What have you done for me lately?" perspective. What has he done lately to make you feel loved and appreciated?

I recently broke it off with my SO, who I thought was the "one". I was tired of him not working full time, bitching about my horses, my unsatisfactory housework, and my job hours. He had to be with me everywhere, he'd claim because he "loved" me, but I knew it was jealousy and insecurity. Like you said, he was so lazy, and he was so jealous of what I had going for me. I deserved better.

There are men out there who will love you for you, and take good care of you. What guy can watch you unload all that hay and sit on the couch? I would help my SO, he should want to be helpful. Not saying he should be your slave, of course, but STILL.

Don't settle. Stop it. You're 26. Go out and live a little... and set a standard for yourself. You're a giver, and sound like a great person with a lot going for you. You deserve better.

HighFlyinBey++

Dec. 30, 2008, 12:00 PM

If he is the slacker as stated why stay so long. I think there is more to the story...

Why would a woman with a college education stay in an emotionally abusive marriage & watch her kid get bullied by her husband, even though she understands on an intellectual level what's going on, knowing she should leave for her child's sake?? Why does she fail to call the police the time he pushed her child down the stairs? Or tackled him in the kitchen for failing to put the dishes away THIS VERY SECOND?

Because her whole life she's been taught to be a caregiver & she luuvvvs him & just knows he luuvvs her back because he says so.

It is NOT easy to just up and leave. She feels she made a commitment & she keeps trying to work it out. She got suckered into the Donna Reed version of family life & keep making excuses for why it's not perfect. He keeps saying "If only you'd just do XX, all would be perfect" but it's never good enough. XX turns into XXYY and there's no end is sight. "If only" will never change the jealousy & insecurity or fix the anger management problem.

Then one day after years of misery & excuses, she finally puts on her big girl panties and agrees that divorce is the best option. She leaves him, taking only what she brought to the marriage, personal items, gifts (and not even all of those), the cats & horses & moves 900 miles away. She signs off on the house, his retirement & any stupid little item that can be replaced. Her family thinks she got taken, but she knows that it was NOT worth fighting and prolonging the agony. Just let the SOB have what he wants and start life over.

I had NO idea that I was as stressed out as I was until 3 months after leaving him. That's when I noticed I was no longer clenching my jaw. My son had a break down of sorts when the stress caused debilitating headaches through his entire junior year of high school.

Looking back on things, I was just plain STUPID not to leave the abuse or turn him into the authorities the first time it happened.

Emotional abuse & blackmail is insidious & absolutely evil. In some ways, we are still recovering from that period of our lives.

Wellspotted

Dec. 30, 2008, 12:19 PM

Why on earth are you planning to marry this guy?

Trevelyan96

Dec. 30, 2008, 12:22 PM

Basically there are men who make great dates, they're lots of fun, good looking, sexy, and can make you feel like you're the only woman in the world, as long as things are going the way THEY want.

Then there are men who are born to be great husbands and fathers. They're solid, dependable, sometimes boring, but you know that you can count on them no matter what.

The trick is in finding one who has enough of the first qualities to keep you interested for 50+ years of marriage, but ALL of the qualities of the 2nd to help you survive 50+ years of what life will throw at you, your spouse, and your kids.

SpecialEffects

Dec. 30, 2008, 12:33 PM

I haven't read all the responses but I've read enough. I'm living the life you're planning to live. It sucks. I too had horses when we met so it wasn't something that I sprang on him later on. He resents them. He resents the time I spend with them, the money (I guess that could be his/household) that I spend on them and so on.

I work too and all animal related work or money is mine, all housework, laundry, cooking, etc. is mine, all farm work, yard work, is mine. He cuts the grass and sometimes rakes. We split household expenses. His reasoning is that we're on a 'farm' because of ME and MY HORSES - that's the justification. If we were in a normal house or condo...... :rolleyes: all would be well.

It hasn't changed in 17 years, unless I consider it worse because I guess I'm no longer cute or charming and doesn't have to pretend even some of the time. ;) Oh well.

The one kudo I will give him, I just had some surgery - some planned - some not - and he did pitch in. The horses had already been moved off the property because of the planned surgery, but he has helped with the donkeys, dogs and cats. I'll tell you though, during this time, I really learned what incredible friends I have. :)

Penthilisea

Dec. 30, 2008, 12:42 PM

Come Shine

Dec. 30, 2008, 12:52 PM

Keeping it HR, if this was say... a western pleasure QH who was a world champ peanut roller. And you wanted to do combined driving events. Would you just keep trying to change him? Or be miserable because he was a sucky driving horse? Not likely! Either change your goals or your partner.

Hmmm. Are you saying that western pleasure QHs are lazy? Just kidding. :)Though wasn't there another thread recently about what type of horse your SO would be?

On another note, perhaps the OP had a bad day and was just venting. There are sure days when I look at my DH and think, well, not so nice thoughts. And yet there are other days when I cannot count all my blessings. I'm sure my DH would say the same about me.

Although sucky, there was a little quote I read recently that said marriage was what keeps you together as you fall in and out of love.

equest

Dec. 30, 2008, 01:16 PM

I would not expect my SO to care for my horses, if I was in the position of owning horses at home. Nor would I want to leave them in the care of someone who is less than knowledgeable.

What if a horse colicked - I would much rather pay a horse person to "horse sit". If the OP can't afford to pay a knowledgeable person to care for the horses while out of town, then that's irresponsibility on her part.

Your guy should pitch in with the housework but asking him to care for horses is far beyond reasonable.

Hopeful Hunter

Dec. 30, 2008, 01:35 PM

"
How can I not marry a guy who shoos frogs out the driveway so we don't smush them with the car?

Because caring about frogs doesn't equal being mature enough to be a PARTNER in a relationship, let alone a marriage!

Relationships are very rarely 50/50 - life just doesn't work that way. BUT, the breakdown must be one that BOTH partners (there's that word again) are comfortable with, and clearly, you are NOT comfortable with this one.

Taking care of the horses isn't his thing, and I personally don't think it should be. Horses are not pets, and they're not for everyone. But, you mention you want to get help at home -- if he's unwilling to pitch in, then ask him to pay to have someone do what he won't around the house and get that cleaning service NOW. Will he cook if it's on a grill? If so, plan meals that cater to his strengths, but that he does actually prepare.

Honestly, it sounds like you've got some simmering concerns about this relationship, and some unrealistic dreams that those concerns will evaporate when you're married. They won't.

A wise person once told me to be sure I LIKED, not loved, liked, and above all respected any potential spouse because there would be times when that would be much more important. It was true. I'd suggest this may be a great time to really consider your needs and wants before it's too late (divorce is expensive) -- good luck.

Mozart

Dec. 30, 2008, 01:52 PM

I too, get the feeling this is about more than the horses. To put it frankly, he is lazy. I guarantee you, this will drive you crazy sooner rather than later. If he does not currently share the domestic jobs, either indoor or outdoor, I can assure it will be much much worse should you decide to start a family. Whereas before you might have been prepared to "mother" him a bit too...when you are cooking dinner while throwing in a load of laundary, looking after kids and then topping it off with looking after horses as well....it will grow old really fast.

If I were you I would hold off on the wedding until he demonstrates his that is prepared to be a true 50-50 partner in the running of the household. He may be a friend to frogs everywhere but trust me, there are men out there that are prepared to pull their weight and are kind to animals too.

TB or not TB?

Dec. 30, 2008, 04:51 PM

What if this had been posted by a man and had read, "I was engaged once. We were going through some very slight money troubles and she asked me to cancel the check I wrote for the Superbowl tickets.

I shoved my boot up her butt and kicked her out..."

To be fair, PN is a pro with an eventing business of her own, and a clinic is a very justifiable business expense. In fact you might even call it continuing education. Plus, it is good advertising for her and any horses she's looking to sell, and who knows what opportunities could arise from working with a BNT. :)

In this case the superbowl doesn't really compare. If the dispute had been about a pair of shoes or a day at the salon, it would be different - but this was directly about her livelihood and career.

purplnurpl

Dec. 30, 2008, 05:20 PM

Vandy

Dec. 30, 2008, 05:21 PM

To be fair, PN is a pro with an eventing business of her own, and a clinic is a very justifiable business expense. In fact you might even call it continuing education.I'm a professional too, and while spending more advertising money, or taking my own horses to more shows/clinics would undoubtedly benefit my business, once I've paid my feed bills, vet bills and employees, if the personal finances of myself and my SO are in trouble, that's going to come first. Maybe the Superbowl analogy doesn't exactly fit for PN, but I still stand by the original sentiment. Sorry.

purplnurpl

Dec. 30, 2008, 05:27 PM

What if this had been posted by a man and had read, "I was engaged once. We were going through some very slight money troubles and she asked me to cancel the check I wrote for the Superbowl tickets.

I shoved my boot up her butt and kicked her out..."

IMO, it has to work both ways. If we're tight on money, I don't spend it on something that is an "extra" for me alone, no matter how important it is. Sorry, it sounds like the guy was not being selfish, just being practical.

No, he was more then selfish but this thread is not about that. I was just using it as an example.
That's the thing. It wasn't an extra for me.
And that's the type of extra that our OP needs to sort out.

Obviously we don't know how wrapped up she is in the equine world. But if it is your life and you have someone who can't grasp that then is really going on?
If it is a hobby that is different.
And if the OP hadn't said, I wish I had one of those....
this would all be a moot point.

anita m

Dec. 30, 2008, 07:25 PM

It isn't the lack of interest in the horses that bothered me, but his response to her need to have them taken care of while she was away--he said they weren't his responsibility. Basically, he told her he didn't give a shit and to go take a hike. In a good relationship, people that supposedly love each other, HELP each other. This guy doesn't want to help. He wants her to leave him alone and her to take care of it all by herself. I think that's a form of emotional abandonment and I wouldn't tolerate it. Even if he doesn't want to feed them himself, he can at least be bothered to sympathize and possibly help her find a horse sitter. His reaction certainly gave the impression he's a selfish jerk, but it's probably not fair to judge someone by one occasion such as this. But still....a wise person once told me you can get to know a lot about a person by seeing how they act in a stressful situation.

purplnurpl

Dec. 30, 2008, 09:26 PM

Then there are men who are born to be great husbands and fathers. They're solid, dependable, sometimes boring, but you know that you can count on them no matter what.

I find this really interesting. My boss and I chat a lot while we are working. Pretty much about everything. Especially relationships. (She is divorced.) Her ex is a doc and divorced her for an intern. She calls the intern "peanut butter rock'n'roll". lol. That means young American. She is older and from Spain.

Anyhow. We were talking about my guy friend that I have had for close to a year and why we weren't actually in a solid relationship. I worked with him for 3 years and then we just started hanging out once a week or so. He is also doing my webpage. Knows nothing about horses. I did say, well, he's kinda boring sometimes.
And she said, you know, maybe we are stupid. Maybe it's the boring guys that are dependable and stick around.

so, Trevely, you may be on to something there!

purplnurpl

Dec. 30, 2008, 09:37 PM

Trakehner

Dec. 31, 2008, 08:09 AM

"...But in this case she is a young, drop-dead gorgeous second wife (stay-at-home) and he is a wealthy executive. It works for them. She gets to play all day in her gorgeous barn with her fantastic horses and he does what he does and when he comes home the two of them have a blast together."

Sounds like he bought himself a live-in prostitute, not married a partner.

Anyway, Don't Get Married. As people noted, lots of red flags. Neither of you sound ready for marriage. Horses are your hobby, your toys...if it's not a hobby, it's a job...he has a job already.

Sounds like there's too much stress anyway...parents on both sides..why bring other stress into your life. Are you staying because you can't afford the horses and your life on your own? More stress.

Life's too short and being with the wrong person is hell on earth. Better happy by yourself than miserable with someone else...if you stay, stay for the right reason and save your parents the money, elope!

soccermom711

Dec. 31, 2008, 08:58 AM

Reading this thread became an obsession with me. I'm almost sad to get to the end:lol: I wanted to stand up and clap at most of the advice -- I've said this before, but I don't mind saying it again -- this is one of the smartest group of women I've ever come across.

Unfortunately, most people have to learn these lessons the hard way. The only hope for the OP is that she's already recognizing that there are issues and asking questions. That's more than I did at her age. My 15 year marriage is working it's way through divorce court -- I am financing my attorney's new Mercedes, I'm sure. My kids -- the first of whom I had hoping it would help, since he desperately wanted kids -- are suffering bravely through the process. As has been said here and cannot be said enough, having kids did not help. Yes, it changed things --- his temper got worse, he got lazier, I did even more work, I had to give up promotions because I couldn't travel and count on him to care for them, I ended up staying home with the kids for 10 years because he became controlling and didn't want me to work -- I could go on and on. He was lazy, unmotivated and negative and never changed. He was/is also a decent person, nice guy, still very good looking --- but he's just not the right guy for me. I have no clue who he is right for, but I'm sure there's someone.:eek: I made a HUGE mistake.

I don't know how you explain this to someone though -- I'm not sure anyone could have convinced me to walk away when I was in my twenties. Now, my SO is everything I should have had before. I get it now. We respect each other, laugh together, share chores, values and pitch in for the other whenever necessary. He's happy to see me and expresses his love in multiple ways -- whether it's fixing my dishwasher, changing the oil in my car, leaving the weekend plans up to me because I'm tired and cranky or buying me a horse :cool:, he makes sure I know how he feels. On the other hand, I make sure to fix him his favorite meals, make sure he has dog food if he forgot to buy it, offer to care for all 11 horses if he has to go out of town on business (and I have a f/t job, 3 kids and a house of my own), clean stalls with him on the weekends, stop at Home Depot on my way to see him if he forgot to pick something up......... you get the picture. We're 100% there for each other. He's my best friend and partner who just happens to be absolutely amazing in bed.:yes: He's not perfect, but then, neither am I. I'm also sure that as we blend our households someday, there will be issues. But after 2.5 years, I've seen enough to know that he will be a team player -- we'll just take turns being the coach.:D

Never, never settle for less. The person who wants to support you and help you get through day, as well as achieve your life long goals, is out there. Wait for him.

KPF

Dec. 31, 2008, 10:20 AM

I just managed to read this whole thread, and agree, OP has gotten some really good advice. I'd suggest some pre-marital counseling, it couldn't hurt. Really, I wouldn't recommend anyone getting married before they're 30, and believe me, I learned this the hard way myself. :lol:

My hubby is hard working around the farm, but pretty much a slob in the house. I'm no neat freak but I do get tired of picking up after him. He told me one day not long ago that he was going to "help me" clean the next day. I'm like, "uh... help ME clean? Newsflash, it is not MY job to clean. I'm not your momma. You live here too. I work full time just like you do and you make at least half the mess. So you can help US by cleaning." He shut up real quick after that, I think I made my point. :) Unfortunately, I think a lot of men think that way, that it is our womanly duty to clean the house, cook, etc. regardless of how much we work (at a job) or how much outside work (mowing, etc.) we do at home.

Has anybody seen those shows like 20/20 where some married working women are hiring "wives"? I think that's pretty telling in itself! :) It's sad that as our society has changed and more women work and contribute to the household, that the expectation for women to clean, cook, take care of the kids, etc. is still there. I say we start a revolution. ;) Kidding, really, but I guess my point is just like everyone else's on this post, people can only take advantage of you if you let them. Same as horses, really.

Good luck, OP.

RiddleMeThis

Dec. 31, 2008, 02:46 PM

He seems to be a pretty decent guy.. didn't dump YOU when you couldn't sacrifice one clinic to ease some pressure on your relationship :winkgrin:
I would never tell my SO to give up something that big, even SB tickets. It would be a WE are in trouble what can WE fix. We then decide what we PERSONALLY can give up. Neither of us forces the other to give something up, we make the decisions like that ourselves. If we needed to give that something up to continue OF COURSE we would.

There was another thread not too long ago about a BF asking the the GF if she would give up her horses for him if she had to. There was the PERFECT quote for this in there and I cannot find the thread.:mad:

ETA: Found the thread and heres one of the quotes. This one is from Ambrey
All I'm saying is that some day in the future, the same question could be asked by a different guy with a completely different answer- and that the guy who she will say "yes, I love my horses and would give them up if you asked me to" will be the guy she *knows* would never ask her to do that, because he knows the horses make her happy and her happiness is all that matters.

From pacific solo
I gave my horse away recently. My husband has a rare form of cancer and we have a 13 month old son. My husband NEVER ONCE asked me to give her up. I chose to do it and it was on MY terms. No man will EVER tell me what to do and I wouldn't stay in a relationship with a man who I had been dating for 5 months or even 5 years if he asked such a ridiculous and manipulative question that the OP's BF asked.

FootPerfect

Dec. 31, 2008, 03:12 PM

I agree with the poster that said get a horse sitter or see if you can hire some local farm kid to come help out around the farm if big things need work, like fences. But it's the other things in your post that give me pause. You need equality in this relationship. You are doing everything and he needs to step up and take over some of the household things.

I wouldn't expect him to come around to the horse thing, especially if he's seen you hurt. My husband has seen me hurt and wants nothing to do with the horses. It's because they care about you and don't understand.

But the rest of it... 9.5 years... I'd be tempted to say hold on the marriage and see if you can't get him to come around with the helping around the house thing. He does have it good. I'd lay down the law now and work through it before you get married. Trust me. You've been together for a long time, but the first time you fight AFTER the marriage and realize you can't go your own way... it's an eye opener.

LarissaL

Dec. 31, 2008, 03:43 PM

I would never tell my SO to give up something that big, even SB tickets.

But he didn't TELL her anything. He asked, she dumped because he obviously "didn't know her."

And also, it's a Lucinda clinic. It's not a once in a lifetime thing like the Pope was coming by for dinner. The woman teaches clinics for a living.

And, I'm sorry, but that quote totally doesn't apply to purple's situation, any other one on this thread, and frankly the original question in the thread you pulled it from. The basis of THAT thread was an SO asking the horseperson if they would give up a horsey life if the SO merely wished it to be that way. Not if the horseperson would give up horses should there be any extenuating circumstances.

These threads remind me why horsey women are generally considered eccentric. There is so little desire to compromise ANYTHING related to horses for a lifetime partnership with another human being.

RiddleMeThis

Dec. 31, 2008, 03:47 PM

But he didn't TELL her anything. He asked, she dumped because he obviously "didn't know her." He shouldnt have told OR asked.

[quote]The basis of THAT thread was an SO asking the horseperson if they would give up a horsey life if the SO merely wished it to be that way. Not if the horseperson would give up horses should there be any extenuating circumstances.[/qupte] And my point was that it SHOULDNT be asked, or told.

BuddyRoo

Dec. 31, 2008, 04:18 PM

While I was home for Christmas, I had a very intriguing conversation with my 70 something grandmother.

Please note...my family is not a particularly close one and heart to heart conversations in my lifetime with ALL family added together could be counted on one hand.

That said, this one struck a note with me.

Grandma said, "BuddyRoo, do you realize that in any relationship, there is ALWAYS one who loves the other more?" And, having thought this true for many years but shocked since I'd never voiced it and thought I was having a unique thought I said, "Huh?"

She is right. I really and truly believe it.

Now...to the OP...it's NOT his hobby, NOT his responsibility and frankly, I think you should not make it so. Make appropriate arrangements. It is YOUR hobby. I could no sooner rebuild my best guy friend's engine than he could appropriately take care of my horses. I don't want to know anyway.

Not my job. Not your SO's job either.

He is NOT going to come around. What you see is what you get. If that is okay with you, that's fine. It would not be okay with ME, but I have been through enough that I am happy now to be "the one who is loved more". My current SO would go to the freaking ends of the earth for me. In the past, this has been a problem as I find it unbalanced and feel guilty. But now that we have addressed it....the truth is, he is okay with giving more and me giving less and I am learning to be okay with giving what I can give.

Your SO though? He's not going to change. False hopes if you have them.

I would not EXPECT my SO to care for the critters, do the laundry, clean the house, etc. But the simple fact is...he will. Because he feels that is serving me and he has some NEED to do that. It works for us now. But it's been a long road to accepting that reality. I feel like a selfish rotten jerk. But he has a payoff. He feels needed.

I suspect YOU feel needed...and that has worked for you. But that you also thought perhaps he cared more than he did. You seem to be the one who loves more. I have been there many times. I would suggest seriously contemplating this further. Can you live with that?

If so. Do not ask him for anything. That is what you are signing up for. He does not WISH to assist you in ways to make your life easier. His expectation is that YOU do that.

Good luck.

(run!)

LarissaL

Dec. 31, 2008, 04:40 PM

He shouldnt have told OR asked.

The basis of THAT thread was an SO asking the horseperson if they would give up a horsey life if the SO merely wished it to be that way. Not if the horseperson would give up horses should there be any extenuating circumstances. And my point was that it SHOULDNT be asked, or told.

Quite honestly, a viewpoint like that makes me think someone is a little out of touch with reality or has found the most submissive, un-opinionated partner ever.

It is absolutely amazing to find a partner who loves and supports your horse habit. Who doesn't mind that his partner spends half of her free time and most of her disposable income on an interest that is fulfilling only to her. Who doesn't mind that his choice of lifestyle is limited or completely altered by her horsey desires.

It's perfectly fine to desire to find someone like that. But it's most certainly not fine to degrade people who can't handle that lifestyle. Seriously, it's NOT the majority of the population who can do it.

And to make it seem like someone who would like their horsey partner to consider its impacts on their shared relationship is not loving, appreciative and supportive is ludicrous. Everyone deserves to have a fair and equitable relationship and if they feel like their SO needs to give up a little bit in the horse department to make it happen, it's well within the bounds of reasonableness.

My horsey-ness is a must in my personal relationship. It's intensity and my involvement, however, are up for discussion at any point in time. It's my way of being considerate of my partner's and our relationship's needs, as he is so understanding of mine.

RiddleMeThis

Dec. 31, 2008, 04:48 PM

Quite honestly, a viewpoint like that makes me think someone is a little out of touch with reality or has found the most submissive, un-opinionated partner ever. Neither actually.;)

Who doesn't mind that his choice of lifestyle is limited or completely altered by her horsey desires. As is hers by his.

It's perfectly fine to desire to find someone like that. But it's most certainly not fine to degrade people who can't handle that lifestyle.Yet whos the one making comments when a poster IS desiring to find someone like that?

And to make it seem like someone who would like their horsey partner to consider its impacts on their shared relationship is not loving, appreciative and supportive is ludicrous. Everyone deserves to have a fair and equitable relationship and if they feel like their SO needs to give up a little bit in the horse department to make it happen, it's well within the bounds of reasonableness. My point is that it shouldnt be "Hunny we need X. Can you do Y?" It should be "Hunny we need X. Is there anything you can cut back on so we can do/manage it?" And that goes both ways.

I would absolutely give up ANYTHING and give it up on the spot if needed to for my SO or family. But I will choose to. I will NOT be pushed into it.

SpecialEffects

Dec. 31, 2008, 04:57 PM

BuddyRoo.... Interesting take on things and IMO it makes a lot of sense.
This whole thread has been very enlightening and a bunch of stuff has made me go hmmmm......

LarissaL

Dec. 31, 2008, 05:00 PM

Ok then, difference of opinion. I don't see how someone asking a to-the-point question is "pushing" someone.

Appsolute

Dec. 31, 2008, 05:02 PM

I haven't read a single reply yet, but I will say, my non horsey SO have been living together for 7 years now, and I make a point not to ask for any help when it comes to the animals.

The horse, and the cats are mine, and I do not expect him to lift a finger for them. They are my responcibility, 100%

If he does offer to help, I refuse, if he helps any way, I thank him profusely!

He cleaned the paddock once while I was at work (I am tied up 13 hours a day with work, he works from home). That was really cool! But not some thing I expected.

If I am going out of town, I pay a friend to take care of my horse (self care board)

Long story short, I had animals when he met me, but I always made it clear that they would not be a burden on him. They are a sacrifice I choose to make.

I do the cooking and cleaning as well, he offers to help, but I am too particular and choose to do it myself.

BuddyRoo

Dec. 31, 2008, 05:05 PM

BuddyRoo.... Interesting take on things and IMO it makes a lot of sense.
This whole thread has been very enlightening and a bunch of stuff has made me go hmmmm......

It sounds horrid, doesn't it? This whole "reality" has struck me only within the last week, so perhaps I made it sound more horrid than it is.

The truth is, after a long talk w/ SO (who has been my on again off again boyfriend and fiance for the last 3 years) I realize that I have been fighting it. I cannot do the intensity he can do. I can only do MY best. And after many years of being "the one who loves more", I don't have it in me now. He does.

And if I let it go at that? We work. When I try to match his game? It fails.

It is what it is.

In the OP's case, it would not be good for me....I would not be pleased. But if it pleases her and she can remedy the situation, then fine.

I used to think relationships came in a pretty box. With instructions.

I was young and stupid. They do not. If you cannot be you...if your needs cannot be met....there is no box. And there certainly are no instructions. As I get older, I realize that I can only do what works. Maybe it is not "right" per the younger instructions/box theory...but it works. I will take it.

MistyBlue

Dec. 31, 2008, 05:32 PM

He was/is also a decent person, nice guy, still very good looking --- but he's just not the right guy for me. I have no clue who he is right for, but I'm sure there's someone.

Soccermom, I had to laugh out loud at this quote from your post, LOL! I have an ex that is described perfectly by that. He's a decent person, a nice guy and very handsome. There *has* to be a woman out there for him, but I honestly can't imagine who. I'd love for him to find someone and get married, I hate the idea of him growing older alone and I know he hates that idea too. But no way in hell will I even consider match making for him...I couldn't do that to another woman. :lol: :winkgrin:

Ruth...it's up to *you* what you can and can't put up with for the rest of your life. FWIW thoough...men do not fundamentally change with marriage or children. Some things will change...but they won't be anything to make your life easier.
We teach our partners how to treat us...by putting up with whatever it is we can't stand we're also teaching them that although we might b*tch and moan about it...we will tolerate it and they'll put up with the nagging as long as they know what the final result will be.
The horses are your thing...and frankly I never view it as a good idea to have a rank-newbie non-horse person watching over horses for more than a few hours. Horses are already walking vet bills waiting to happen...hire someone who knows horses because if you think you're annoyed at him now for not wanting to care for them, imagine how much you'll want to run him over with the tractor if something happens to a horse while they're under his care. Too much pressure to put on a non-horsie SO.
As for the housework...if both spouses are working full time then both spouses need to figure out who is good at what housework and do a division of labor. And if there are things neither of you can stand doing...learn to live without it being done or hire someone to do it.
I won't comment on the "waiting for our parents to pay for a reception" because I can't even wrap my head around that one.