Nicanor News ~

[VirginiaBred]

http://www.justnews.com/video/18321552/index.html


Lovely updated pics here:

http://cs.bloodhorse.com/blogs/nicanor/archive/2008/12/19/new-nicanor-photos.aspx

[ivy62]

There was talk of starting him soon has anyone heard? He has some big shoes to fill..I hope for him he just has a safe trip and comes home okay....

[VirginiaBred]

There was talk of starting him soon has anyone heard?.


It's on the video. :)

[ivy62]

I was hoping for further info.....will he start on turf also?

[VirginiaBred]

Now that I have not heard. ** Edited to add this from an interview with Peter Brette (from the summer):

Q. Is anyone thinking about trying or training Nicanor on the turf?
A. I don't think so; not at this stage anyway. We didn't train Barbaro over the turf at all.

[CrzyCorgi]

Thanx VB! I can always count on you to keep me updated!

(formerly CrzyCorgi)

[Glimmerglass]

From this TB times article last Friday the connections say "he should be starting at the end of the month" (http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/racing-news/2009/January/01/Nicanor-progressing-toward-highly-anticipated-debut.aspx). Does that mean they'll put him in an allowance race Gulfstream then or he'll just have progressed enough by then to think about races in Feb?

Obviously I think we're all just reading the tea leaves at best on this one as noone knows for sure although I'd think it possible MM would've said X race is a goal.

In the last couple of years - and this year is not likely to be an exception - the bulking of graded stakes money earlier is getting more fierce. It used to be that say a single big graded stakes win like the Florida Derby would be an assured entry but who knows with purses being cut.

[CrzyCorgi]

Keep me updated if you hear anything! :D I would love to see his first race!

[War Admiral]

I really would LOFF to see a (recent) confo pic. Are there any?

Someone commented on the BH photos link that they think N is not quite as correct as B was, and I must say that just looking at the pics on that thread I would agree... but I'd love to see a real pic!

[mwalls]

He looked pretty good yesterday on the grass,the dogs were out 80ft from the rail,his last 1/8 was rather good-Very interesting

[Glimmerglass]

Hopefully the connections are saying this to ensure expectations by would-be fans are better set: from Bill Finley - New York Times 1-11-09 (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/12/sports/othersports/12racing.html?_r=1)

But no matter how he fares in his first few races, do not expect to see him in the Kentucky Derby. Perhaps the next in line, a horse named Lentenor, will run in the 2010 Kentucky Derby.

[VirginiaBred]

From Alex Brown Racing:

"The buzz is beginning to build surrounding the debut of Barbaro's 3yo full brother, Nicanor. CBS News contacted me last week about whether Fans of Barbaro would be in attendance. CBS News may be broadcasting the event. Nicanor is slated to run towards the end of January -- early February. It could be dirt or turf, depending on the suitability of a race and it's timing. I spoke to Peter Brette (his rider, Barbaro's rider and Michael Matz's assistant) after his turf work and Peter was suitably optimistic."

[VirginiaBred]

Nicanor Works Toward Racing Debut (http://cs.bloodhorse.com/blogs/nicanor/archive/2009/01/18/nicanor-works-toward-racing-debut.aspx)

18 Jan 2009 9:56 AM

Nicanor breezed four furlongs in :50.4 at Palm Meadows Jan 17., as he continues working steadily toward his racing debut.
The 3-year-old Dynaformer colt worked on dirt and ranked 14 out of 29 horses that went that distance.
According to a press release from Gulfstream Park, trainer Michael Matz is considering entering Nicanor sometime during the last weekend of January.
“I’m not sure there’s a race scheduled for him,” said Matz. “I would love to get him into a race those days.”
If Nicanor raced that weekend, it would be somewhat bittersweet as it would coincide with the Holy Bull Stakes (gr. III), which Barbaro won in 2006 for his first victory on dirt.
“He has really matured a lot just in the last month,” said Matz of Nicanor.

[summerhorse]

Sounds like he's more like Man of Havana than Barbaro sadly.

[Beezer]

Sounds like he's more like Man of Havana than Barbaro sadly.

Really? I'm not sure how you come by that assessment -- assuming you mean Man IN Havana, his half brother. For crap's sake, even Somethingroyal produced a half-dozen clinkers.

Nicanor is a huge colt, by a sire known to produce late bloomers. He's had good works; his connections are pointing him toward a start. Man in Havana never made it this far. His connections did what was best for him and took him home. Would that every owner of a would-be racehorse practiced the same horse sense.

No one -- at least none of us in the peanut gallery -- can really say any more about Nicanor than that he's very well bred, in very capable hands and is training well. Beyond that, it's up to him. Although I suppose that anything less than winning the Triple Crown while walking on water would be considered abject failure for this horse. :rolleyes:

[CrzyCorgi]

Beezer, well said! I completely agree!

We need to see Nicanor for Nicanor not Barbaro, he is not Barbaro and will never be! He needs to make his own way!

Maybe the reason the connections aren't making that big of a deal about it, is because they know this!

We need to all remember, Nicanor may or may not even race in the Derby, and thats OK, that does not make him a failure! We as his fans need to cheer him on, not Barbaro.

I am one of Barbaro's biggest fans and I am curious to see how has brother does, but I will not be disappointed if he does not win the triple crown or even make one of the races! I just want him to have the best & most importantly, safest racing career that he can have!

It just seems like the public has already decided that if he does not do what Barbaro did or more, that he will be a failure & that is just not fair!

GO NICANOR! Do the best you can!
I, for one will be cheering for you all the way! (however far it may take you)

Please give him a chance....

[Xctrygirl]

Sounds like he's more like Man of Havana than Barbaro sadly.

Hmm lets see... Havana NEVER wanted to be a racehorse, and couldn't come close to dreaming of a 5F from the gate in under 1:01....

And as Beezer pointed out Havana was sired by Quiet American, not Dynaformer. Both tend to produce late blooming progeny. But I think moreso QA than Dynaformer.

Having ridden Havana, I take exception to the slight that the comparison was made to be. Havana was and still is an amazingly intelligent Tb. He knew his role in life before we did. And true to form he is succesful now in his new life in the jumpers.

Nicanor has lovely DNA. And beyond that he is a new 3 yr old trying to figure out his place in our equine universe. Give him some space and time, he will choose his own fate.

~Emily

ps: Look for Gulfstream to write a race to fill the desires of a MSW that Matz would like. (I'd say a mile or less.)

[Glimmerglass]

And beyond that he is a new 3 yr old trying to figure out his place in our equine universe. Give him some space and time, he will choose his own fate

I suspect unintentionally the spotlight with the FOBs and the media looking to feed them with stories of Nicanor won't allow for that. The New York Times, for example, seems to be following him and with that comes a lot of expectations sadly.

Once the TC comes and goes without his participation the general media interest will likely wane.

[ivy62]

We already know that Nicanor is less like Barbaro...They are built differently. I see Nicanor more short coupled then Barbaro even if they are both big horses..Maybe eventing would suit him better?
I shutter to think what will happen on race day or any race he is ever in...Maybe they will keep him on the turf? Who knows, I just want to see a happy healthy horse..
Good luck Nicanor whenever the day will come...
How is Man in Havana doing? Has he been shown at all yet or is he still learning? I have a friend that is down in Wellington and maybe she could check him out for me. She actually gets to Ocala every once in a while

[Glimmerglass]

Just my opinion but if the connections wanted to calm down the 'high expectations' and salavating fans expecting the next Barbaro they shouldn't have picked Prado to be his jockey for the debut (http://cs.bloodhorse.com/blogs/nicanor/archive/2009/01/25/prado-to-ride-nicanor-in-his-upcoming-debut.aspx). That just adds fuel to the fire ...

DE News Journal 1-24-09 "Is Barbaro's brother, Nicanor, also his heir?" (http://www.delawareonline.com/article/20090124/SPORTS09/901240317/1002/SPORTS)

Despite the Barbaro tragedy, Roy Jackson said he and his wife aren't concerned about how Nicanor will do when that starting gate opens in his first race.

"We have moved on from Barbaro. We don't dwell on what happened," Roy Jackson said. "We loved the horse and the interest in him is obviously still there. His legacy lives on in the Barbaro Fund and raising money for continued research of laminitis in horses.

"Gretchen and I are excited and looking forward to Nicanor's first race and many more after that. We love horse racing and that's what excites you as owners."

[ASB Stars]

Yes, but if it is possible to bring that baby home in one piece, Edgar will do it. :yes:

[VirginiaBred]

I respect Michael's patience and the Jackson's understanding that Nicanor needed to wait.

[Sing Mia Song]

Sounds like he's more like Man of Havana than Barbaro sadly.

You never know. He could be a Tiznow or Curlin. Or he could be just a late-developing and useful allowance horse. Enjoy him for what he is.

[Glimmerglass]

More of the white-hot spotlight ....

TB Times Jan 27, 2009 (http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/racing-news/2009/January/27/Rolling-out-the-red-carpet-for-Nicanor.aspx)

CBS sent a television crew to the home of owners-breeders Roy and Gretchen Jackson on Tuesday in anticipation of Nicanor’s first career start, which probably will come on Saturday in a one-mile maiden special weight race at Gulfstream Park on the Donn Handicap (G1) undercard.

[From Michael Matz]“Everybody has such high expectations, and I feel everybody wants him to do well. I think he’ll try. Nobody knows until they get out onto the track and we see what his heart is really made of. We know Barbaro had quite a big heart, so I think this horse will do well also.”

Based on the way the three-year-old Dynaformer colt has progressed in recent weeks, Brette said he expects Nicanor to be worth the wait. He drilled five furlongs in 1:01.20 handily on Sunday at Palm Meadows.

[ivy62]

A horse does not have to win the Kentucky Derby to be a respectable racehorse. How many horses went on to stellar careers that did not even run in the TC races...A lot. My favorite was Forego..What a horse. Just late to mature and maybe if more people gave them time they would be on the track longer also....Nicanor will be wonderful to watch no matter what...I just hope for a safe trip, a win would be awesome though...I hear they say Lentenor is more like Barbaro in stature but that remains to be seen yet...

[Sunny's Mom]

I sure hope they televise the race on CBS when he runs! Otherwise I'm going to have to drive out to the track (and there is currently no live racing at the track) to watch the simulcast ;p

[CAH]

He's entered for Saturday - Gulfstream, Race 8 Post position #4. One mile.

[Lola Ranger]

Sure looking forward to watching Nicanor race. What a thrill that will be.

[Glimmerglass]

I sure hope they televise the race on CBS when he runs!

Alas Gulfstream is pretty much exclusive to HRTV on live tv. I'd like to think someone at the NTRA or Gulfstream or HRTV would accomodate would-be interested viewers on-line.

The 8th race is in between the two big marquee races on the race - the Holy Bull Stakes (Grade 3) before it and the Donn Handicap (Grade 1) afterwards.

8th race scheduled at 4:43pm EST
1 Mile | Open | 3 Year Olds Maiden Special Weight | Purse: $40,000

PP # Horse - Jockey
1 Unbridled Cardinal - Leparoux J R
2 Big Flirt - Lopez P
3 Andiron - Coa E M
4 Nicanor - Prado E S
5 Warrior's Reward - Borel C H
6 Allrightsreserved - Velazquez J R
7 Boyhood Dream - Baird E T
8 Il Postino - Velasquez C
9 Trust the Deputy - Garcia Alan
10 Dubinsky - Castellano J J
11 Single Malt - Douglas R R
12 Audeamus - Trujillo E
Alternate Entry Stayonit - Coa E M

All horses tote 122-lbs

[War Admiral]

All riiiiight, I admit it - I'm getting suckered in! :lol: (I DO know better; IdoIdoIdo. Honest.)

If anyone finds a way for us to watch online please post here!

[VirginiaBred]

Lord have mercy.

I agree with Glimmer about the "white hot spotlight".........sheesh. Give the kid a break already!!!

(however, my heart has already started racing faster........no joke)

[ivy62]

Is this race on the turf or dirt? Isn't that a lot of weight for him to carry in his first race?
I do not think I can watch it...I just want to know he came home okay, But a win would be sweet.....
I would love to know what Edgar thought of him....You should not compare siblings but how can you not....

[Glimmerglass]

Is this race on the turf or dirt? Isn't that a lot of weight for him to carry in his first race?

It's on honest to goodness real dirt. Weight wise he's likely used to an exercise rider toting more so it's of little concern. He's only get to carry less if say he had a bug / apprentice rider on him.

[ivy62]

Hey Glimmer- is it a nice dirt track or hard as concrete? I was hoping they would start on the turf just like Barbaro...wasn't he bred for turf? What is the quality of the otehr horses or do we not know them yet? I am trying to learn more about work outs and such to see potential but I am a novice at that....

[Silvercrown90]

This will be televised live on HRTV (Horse Racing Television) if you get that channel on cable. Usually it's in one of the Premium tiers of cable service. Here in Pennsylvania we get it on Comcast. All of the races from Gulfstream are televised live. If you have an online betting account at Twinspires, www.twinspires.com, or Express Bet, you will also be able to see it live on the internet through your betting account.

Sharon
CoolFitWear.com, technologically advanced athletic wear
http://www.coolfitwear.com

[CSSporthorses]

Good luck Nicanor. I'll definitely be finding a way to watch, even if I have to head to a local track. I can't wait to see the path this boy chooses for himself.

[Glimmerglass]

You can listen to the race live on the internet via the Horse Racing Radio Network (HRRN) - I met a couple of the folks with HRRN at the airport in Chicago flying on the same flight to Saratoga last summer. If radio was good enough to hear Man O'War's funeral (http://www.claibornefarm.com/media/manowar-funeral.shtml) it should be for hearing Nicanor's debut.

HRRN to Broadcast Nicanor's Debut (http://news.bloodhorse.com/article/48993.htm?id=48993)

HRRN will air the live call of the race along with pre and post race analysis. Fans can tune-in to HRRN’s coverage on multiple affiliates at 4:00 – 5:30 p.m. (ET) and can access the broadcast worldwide with free live streaming provided on the HRRN website, www.horseracingradio.net

[ClassyRide]

For those of us who only get TVG, do we know if they will have permission to air the recording of the race after it is finished? I can't get onto their website right now to see if they are planning on televising the race (their site is blocked from my work pc).

[Sunny's Mom]

I found out that Red and Jerry's here in Denver will simulcast the races from Gulfstream. And that's even more fun than watching on TV because you can actually bet too!

http://www.redandjerrys.com/content/view/75/28/

So you might want to check if there are simulcast races somewhere in your town too.

Edit for dumb question - if he wins do they count those winnings for triple crown eligibility? OR is it only division I race winnings that count?

[VirginiaBred]

CBS will cover Nicanor and his racing debut tonight on their nightly news.


Rolling out the red carpet for Nicanor

http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/racing-news/2009/January/27/Rolling-out-the-red-carpet-for-Nicanor.aspx

A portion of the interview here:

CBS sent a television crew to the home of owners-breeders Roy and Gretchen Jackson on Tuesday in anticipation of Nicanor’s first career start on Saturday in a one-mile maiden special weight race at Gulfstream Park on the Donn Handicap (G1) undercard.
“I can’t wait,” Gretchen Jackson said. “All of our ‘babies’ are exciting to see, but I have to say it’s probably a little more exciting because he is Barbaro’s brother, and he does really look like him.
“There is a lot of interest in Nicanor. And a lot of new people have written me notes and nice letters."

[VirginiaBred]

I know Andrew will be there :cool: (I'm so jealous). Who else???

[VirginiaBred]

We can all listen right here:


http://horseracingradio.net/

HRRN to Broadcast Nicanor's Debut

The Horse Racing Radio Network announced Jan. 29 that it will provide live bonus coverage of the debut race of Barbaro’s brother Nicanor as part of its Donn Handicap (gr.I) day broadcast Jan. 31.

A full brother to the 2006 Kentucky Derby Presented by Yum! Brands (gr. I) winner, Nicanor will be making his first career start in Gulfstream’s 8th race – a one mile event for 3-year-old maidens.

HRRN will air the live call of the race along with pre and post race analysis. Fans can tune-in to HRRN’s coverage on multiple affiliates at 4:00 – 5:30 p.m. (ET) and can access the broadcast worldwide with free live streaming provided on the HRRN website, www.horseracingradio.net (http://www.horseracingradio.net/).

[TKR]

Is HRTV carried on any Direct TV stations? Be safe, Nicanor!!
PennyG

[Andrew]

I pray he has a safe trip.... I think it's going to be a zoo at Gulfstream this afternoon!!!

[solargal]

:cool:I'll be there.

[Essie]

I was hoping to listen but I can't get the site to work. :confused: I'll have to rely on the board. I'm just hoping for a safe trip no matter what the results.

[dcm]

You can watch on youbet.net. You do not have to sign up for actual betting. I have it on right now, 6th race, maidens on turf.

I am so excited to see Nicanor race! :yes:

[ivy62]

I am trying to register but there is no place..so how do I get on to watch the race?

[msrobin]

OH MY GOD I just realized I have the horse racing tv channel! I had no idea. So cool I get to watch live!! WOO HOO!!

[dcm]

I am trying to register but there is no place..so how do I get on to watch the race?

Click on "Play Now". You have to confirm by email....but it's quick.

[grits]

I'm listening to the HRRN streaming radio feed. If you can't get it to work, try the stand-alone player option. I had to do that.

[canyonoak]

oops, can't count time,LOL

[VirginiaBred]

4:43pm is post time

[grits]

The Donn just ran - upset by Saratoga Sinner. 8th race (Nicanor's) is next up.

[VirginiaBred]

I'm listening to the HRRN streaming radio feed. If you can't get it to work, try the stand-alone player option. I had to do that.


Where do you click to listen? I've downloaded Java and can't find it!!!

[Glimmerglass]

The Donn just ran - upset by Saratoga Sinner. 8th race (Nicanor's) is next up.

Er, it was the Holy Bull (Grade 3) which is a key prep for the Kentucky Derby ...

Julien Leparoux is so hot at Gulfstream right now that I'd look at Unbridled Cardinal (trained by Nick Zito) closely against Nicanor ;) I'd wager on Dubinsky, a maiden but a near winner last time out, in this race.

[VirginiaBred]

Got it. Finally.

[ivy62]

Go to FAQ and click on the stand alone player, works really well but I wish I could watch it!

[VirginiaBred]

I can't find it on YouBet.net

[grits]

Where do you click to listen? I've downloaded Java and can't find it!!!

I copypasted the url into my browser, and the player popped up.

[VirginiaBred]

You can watch on youbet.net. You do not have to sign up for actual betting. I have it on right now, 6th race, maidens on turf.

I am so excited to see Nicanor race! :yes:


Where???

[grits]

Er, it was the Holy Bull (Grade 3) which is a key prep for the Kentucky Derby ...



Ugh. Sorry. I plead back injury. I'm somewhere on a short spectrum between pain and painkillers. The Donn is the 9th.

[Harold]

is he the 4 horse?

[dcm]

Where???

Click on play now, register, respond by email (it's fast). Then log in and click on gulfstream park. on the top is a video feed 1 - click there.

[Glimmerglass]

Ouch - he's going off at even money! (Crazy)

Yes he's saddle cloth #4 with the familiar silks of green/white

[VirginiaBred]

I'm signed in on YouBet.Net, so how can I watch the video???

[grits]

All things considered, horse racing needs this sentiment.

[dcm]

I'm signed in on YouBet.Net, so how can I watch the video???

Click on gulfstream, then live video feed one! hurry!

[VirginiaBred]

Got it finally!!!!!!!!

[ShowMeTheGlory]

he came in 2nd to last

[msrobin]

Well he isn't Barbaro at least not in this race. He looked great hauling a$$ then nothing like he ran out of gas

[scpezold]

Awwww at least he was safe!:yes:

[Essie]

It's done. He placed way up the field.

[Glimmerglass]

Ouch - he was done with racing at the final turn.

Kudos to Calvin Borel on 'Warrior's Reward'

[dcm]

It looked like he broke slow from the gate, but made it to mid pack before falling back. That is okay, Nic made it to his first race and came home safe.

[VirginiaBred]

Seriously bad start for Nic.

[ShowMeTheGlory]

HRTV just said he grabbed a quarter.

[FlyingSwap]

Well, he can come be my new hunter! :yes:

(Seriously, I'm glad he stayed safe. There will be other races---and he sure did have a ton of pressure for an untried horse. Even after everyone said that there shouldn't be pressure on him--we still all were glued to the screen, and he still got a huge audience. He's just a baby!)

[FlyingSwap]

HRTV just said he grabbed a quarter.

Oh, no!!

[dcm]

Well, he can come be my new hunter! :yes:

(Seriously, I'm glad he stayed safe. There will be other races---and he sure did have a ton of pressure for an untried horse. Even after everyone said that there shouldn't be pressure on him--we still all were glued to the screen, and he still got a huge audience. He's just a baby!)

No, he wants to be a jumper like his big brother. He can come stay with me. :winkgrin:

btw, what does "grab a quarter" mean? Sorry for my racing ignorance....

[VirginiaBred]

He probably over stepped himself. It's when the back foot strikes the back of the front hoof.

[Drvmb1ggl3]

I bet some savvy 'cappers cleaned up on this one.

[tbracer65]

I thought he ran a decent race....giving that he broke absolutely terrible, then rushed up on the back side, having nothing left when turning for home. He looked to race 'green' for his first time out as on the backside Prado was trying his best for a little bit to rate him, but Nicanor was trying to clip heals. Whether you're Barbaro's brother or not...it's REALLY hard to get a baby fit to go a mile first time out -- everything has to go their way & with a stumble at the break like that he would have had to be a superstar to recover & go on to win. To me....the break cost him.

[Sing Mia Song]

He ran a perfectly fine race for a first start. He broke alertly, got shuffled back, got some dirt in his face but advanced into the pack. He got wobbly-legged on the turn and Prado didn't push.

I would be thrilled with that as a maiden voyage for any first-time starter. In fact, I think horses who win first out because everything unfolds their way are at a distinct disadvantage when they have to step up in conditions right off the bat. It was pretty obvious that this guy was a bit immature when he didn't start as a two-year-old.

[Barnfairy]

This article from the Blood Horse includes a video of Nicanor's debut (http://racing.bloodhorse.com/article/49033.htm), in case anybody missed it.

[mvb]

he has an excuse for sure. However, those fractions for the 1/4 and half are faster then Nicanor has ever even breezed. I hope his next time out is better. Although that's how it is with bloodlines. Just never know. Just like myself and my 3 sisters. We are all total opposites LOL. I can't wait for his next time out!

[lizathenag]

OK. I only went to Golden Gate Fields today because I had a bunch of free passes to the turf club and for valet parking. . .
but I have a $2 win ticket that I am not going to keep (I still have my $2 win ticket from Seattle Slew's Kentucky Derby)

[Florida Fan]

Err, I was there---no excuses, guys. He got beat about 20 lengths. Good horses run away from trouble. Maybe later?? He was quite unimpressive, actually.

[Laurierace]

Not saying he would have won the race or even hit the board, but grabbing a quarter is very much an excuse. They can be career ending if they are serious, look at Rockport Harbor.

[Florida Fan]

Not like he limped off the track----I've had several grab a quarter. Depends on severity--Let's just say for arguments sake, that next time he runs he will have a better chance. So far, he hasn't raised any sort of a "stir" in Florida.

[Glimmerglass]

What The Daily Racing Form (http://drf.com/news/article/101403.html) reported:

Barbaro's brother shows little

All the anticipation surrounding the debut of Barbaro's baby brother Nicanor here Saturday was, at least for the time being, much ado about nothing.

Nicanor's appearance in Saturday's eighth race, a maiden special weight event for 3-year-olds at a mile, created quite a media stir and garnered nationwide attention both within and outside the racing world.

Unfortunately, Nicanor failed to live up to everybody's lofty expectations.

After breaking a step slowly, Nicanor recovered to move to close contention along the inside while under a rating hold from Edgar Prado, who was also Barbaro's regular rider. But it was apparent after six furlongs that Nicanor had little left as he gradually began to plummet towards the rear of the field, with Prado merely riding him out through the final furlong.

Nicanor eventually finished 10th, some 25 lengths behind race winner Warrior's Reward, after going off the 5-2 second choice.

"He grabbed the quarter of the left front leg leaving the gate," said Michael Matz who also guided Barbaro's star-crossed career. "He wasn't comfortable, so Edgar just wrapped up on him."

[Blinkers On]

Er, it was the Holy Bull (Grade 3) which is a key prep for the Kentucky Derby ...

Julien Leparoux is so hot at Gulfstream right now that I'd look at Unbridled Cardinal (trained by Nick Zito) closely against Nicanor ;) I'd wager on Dubinsky, a maiden but a near winner last time out, in this race.


I thinkthe Don wa won my Brutimus Maximus, no? Formerly a mandells (gary), then a Vladamir(sp) and now Kiran? Again spelling. Sorry
He was green, did well, look for himto improve next ot. Sprinting might not be his thing. He's had a race, some of the "white hot spotlight is gon. How nice. Not all good horses have to be champions right off the bat. He got an education on being a race horse. No shame in that

[Anne Tucker]

Unfortunately Nicanor grabbed a quarter leaving the gate and finished well back in spite of a nice move early in the race. Let's hope it heals quickly. This is a nice horse, not to mention that he has big shoes to fill.

[harvestmoon]

Even if he isn't the next Barbaro, he may end up being a very nice horse. I look forward to his next race. :)

[farmgirl88]

while it wasnt very impressive and he did have an excuse (he grabbed a quarter)- its his first race and pretty much just a learning experience the first go out. WHile it was exciting to see his first race and to have the national attention of it all- what most folks are failing to realize is this was Nicanor's first race. it was a learning experience and obviously not the most comfortable one at that.

I bet with time- he will make one heck of a racehorse. give him time.

[Lady Counselor]

I just watched the video. For his first race, he did OK. Made a strong move up inside horses, for sure got tired. The quarter didn't help him, but I don't know how much it hindered him either. He probably would have been better running 6 furlongs though.
Maybe he won't be the same class as Barbaro, but for a first time starter, I have no critcisms of him.
If he's any kind of racehorse, he learned a lot yesterday. Be interesting to see how he does the next time out.:yes:

[Catsdorule-sigh]

I'm very glad that first race is over. Maybe now the spotlight will dim somewhat and his connections can just deal with a race horse and not a celebrity so much.

I've got some questions and not being a racing expert...

I've read comments here and there that Nicanor is built more like a sprinter or at least not as built for distance. Why did Matz start him at a mile? I noted that Barbaro's first race was run at a mile too, but on the turf.

Would turf have made any difference for how Nicanor appeared to run? In my inexperienced opinion, he seemed to run tense until almost halfway through the race (Looking at the way he carried and used his neck) before he seemed to get into a rhythm. IMHO, he got left behind a bit, made a pretty good move getting back up with the pack- even if that's not what Prado wanted, I'm not sure the brakes were there for Prado to use- then maybe the quarter began bothering him more and/or he ran out of gas.

If the race had been shorter and the break from the gate better or maybe he had an outside post position, with the run he did make, would he have been more of a contender?

It's sounds like Prado is still high on him:

http://racing.bloodhorse.com/article/49033.htm

“He (Nicanor) is better than that,” said his jockey, Edgar Prado. “I’ve worked him in the mornings, and he showed me a lot. He broke really fast and unfortunately grabbed his left quarter. We’ll just have to see how long it takes to heal, but I know he’s better than that.”

From the interviews I've been able to see via the net, seems that in terms of maturity, Barbaro was ahead of his little brothers. Nicanor hasn't been in school that long and this was his first test. I hope it was a learning experience.

What kind of information might Prado have for Matz on what Nicanor needs in his training- learning how to rate better? Listening to his rider better?

I wish Nicanor a long and healthy career.

And you never know which brother will/would have made the better stallion.
(Assuming they run well enough to get the chance)

[Drvmb1ggl3]

I'm very glad that first race is over. Maybe now the spotlight will dim somewhat and his connections can just deal with a race horse and not a celebrity so much.

I've got some questions and not being a racing expert...

I've read comments here and there that Nicanor is built more like a sprinter or at least not as built for distance. Why did Matz start him at a mile?

Probably because he is not particularly fast. His works would seem to suggest so.

I noted that Barbaro's first race was run at a mile too, but on the turf.

Would turf have made any difference for how Nicanor appeared to run?

Possibly. His breeding definitely suggests it might.

In my inexperienced opinion, he seemed to run tense until almost halfway through the race (Looking at the way he carried and used his neck) before he seemed to get into a rhythm.

Perfectly normal for his first time out, I wouldn't hold it against him.

IMHO, he got left behind a bit, made a pretty good move getting back up with the pack- even if that's not what Prado wanted, I'm not sure the brakes were there for Prado to use- then maybe the quarter began bothering him more and/or he ran out of gas.

If the race had been shorter and the break from the gate better or maybe he had an outside post position, with the run he did make, would he have been more of a contender?

Given the fractions they ran, I doubt it. They would be burning up much faster first two quarters at 6f, so he would have faded quicker.

[hessy35]

while it wasnt very impressive and he did have an excuse (he grabbed a quarter)- its his first race and pretty much just a learning experience the first go out. WHile it was exciting to see his first race and to have the national attention of it all- what most folks are failing to realize is this was Nicanor's first race. it was a learning experience and obviously not the most comfortable one at that.

I bet with time- he will make one heck of a racehorse. give him time.

I was extremely impressed with how quickly he moved to the middle of the pack after hitting himself behind. Prado was really pulling on him to get him to settle. I think he has speed. It is there... for sure.

[Glimmerglass]

Despite the bomb effort the fact that Nicanor debuted at Gulfstream has to be one of the reasons the handle for the day's wagering was up. Although the Holy Bull also featured an excellent cast of 3-yr olds who were Derby hopefuls ;)

From the Daily Racing Form Feb 2, 2009 (http://www.drf.com/news/article/101417.html)

The ontrack handle for Saturday's Donn/Holy Bull doubleheader of $1,254,814 was up a whopping 21 percent from a year ago. Overall handle on the 10-race card was in excess of $13.8 million, which was up 14.5 percent from Donn Day 2008.

Saturday's program also included the much publicized appearance of Nicanor, Barbaro's baby brother, who finished 10th in his career debut.

[ivy62]

Does anyone know how badly he hurt himself? and what is next for him? Unfortunately, for me i do not know enough about the racing game to say what kind of an effort he had but I wouldn't count him out yet....

[VirginiaBred]

From Alex Brown Racing:

"Nicanor (http://alexbrownracing.com/wiki/index.php/Nicanor) is fine after his first race experience. He did grab his quarter pretty badly. They believe this happened coming out of the gate and as soon as Nicanor came off the bridle, Edgar did not persevere. But he is not lame and is eating well, which is a good sign. Peter will take him out and jog him tomorrow. He expects he will be a different horse next time he runs having had the first race experience. Alex reminded him that Chelokee was well beaten, when he was considered a very good horse, in his first start at Delaware Park!"

[ivy62]

Not to highjack the thread but how is Chelokee doing? Had heard he wasn't very comfy of late, is that true? anyone?

[VirginiaBred]

Last I read, he had left Rood & Riddle Equine Hospital and had gone to Tom Simon's Vinery. He was treated for a right front fetlock dislocation.

[AHorseSomeDay]

Does anyone know if Nicanor will be in any upcoming races? I know he injured his heel but any ideas?

[Laurierace]

Of course he will run again. When I don't know but it shouldn't be too long, those things generally heal quickly.

[VirginiaBred]

Nicanor breezed twice this week, beginning the start back from his injury in his debut.


http://cs.bloodhorse.com/blogs/nicanor/archive/2009/02/24/back-to-routine.aspx

[ShowMeTheGlory]

Race: 8 Distance: Seven Furlongs Surface: Dirt Age: 3 Sex: Colt
Race Type: Maiden Special Weight Purse: $ 40,000
Jockey: Jose Lezcano
Trainer: Michael R. Matz
Race conditions: FOR MAIDENS, THREE YEARS OLD. Weight, 122 lbs.
Last Raced: 01/31/2009 at GULFSTREAM PARK in Race 8
Finish Position: 10th
Last Reported Workouts:
03/03/2009-PALM MEADOWS TRAINING CENTER-Four Furlongs-Dirt Fast-48:40 Handily
02/24/2009-PALM MEADOWS TRAINING CENTER-Four Furlongs-Dirt Fast-49:85 Breezing
02/16/2009-PALM MEADOWS TRAINING CENTER-Four Furlongs-Dirt Fast-51:60 Breezing

[ivy62]

I see Edgar is not riding, Does anyone think it will make a difference? Some have said the he is an aggressive rider, I am not sure about that but he is very intuned to the horses movements....

[Glimmerglass]

I see Edgar is not riding, Does anyone think it will make a difference? Some have said the he is an aggressive rider, I am not sure about that but he is very intuned to the horses movements....

It's worth noting that Prado is on the West Coast this wekend with some big purse, big graded stakes races at Santa Anita.

[Sunny's Mom]

Some gulfstream analysis:

http://www.gulfstreampark.com/RACING/NEWS/Press+Releases/Details/Nicanor.htm

[ivy62]

Is there anyone broadcasting the races today from Gulf Stream would love to Nicanor try again to do well?

[AppJumpr08]

I believe that HRTV is broadcasting Gulfstream today. Post time is in 13 minutes :)

[AppJumpr08]

Well if I was one of his connections, I'd be much happier with this race then the last!!! Hanging on, and a nice re-rally!! Good boy :D

[Glimmerglass]

A good effort as he was clearly game. He was down about 1 1/2 lengths in the stretch but came back to take 2nd down by only 1/2 length or so.

[Glimmerglass]

The video is already up on youtube (damn that was quick!)

Video replay: Gulfstream 3-7-09 Race 8 Maiden Special Weight (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZK5sU89Zhd0)

[ivy62]

He was very game this time and I am glad he returned home safe. MAybe if the race had been a mile he would have taken it? The times were good too....MAybe he will be a nice horse, not Barbaro but still a very nice horse. Glad he hit the board this time...Is the competition different at Gulf Stream then say Delaware Park?
Wonder what will be next for him....I wonder if they will try the turf?

[VirginiaBred]

He seems to not have the endurance required just yet.

[ShowMeTheGlory]

Nicanor is entered to run on March 28, 2009 at GULFSTREAM PARK.

Your comments for this horse were: dynaformer/la villa rouge


Purchase the Equibase® Full PP Program

Race: 5 Distance: One Mile Surface: Dirt Age: 3 Sex: Colt
Race Type: Maiden Special Weight Purse: $ 42,000
Jockey: Jose Lezcano
Trainer: Michael R. Matz
Race conditions: FOR MAIDENS, THREE YEARS OLD. Weight, 122 lbs.
Last Raced: 03/07/2009 at GULFSTREAM PARK in Race 8
Finish Position: 2nd
Last Reported Workouts:
03/22/2009-PALM MEADOWS TRAINING CENTER-Four Furlongs-Dirt Fast-51:40 Breezing
03/03/2009-PALM MEADOWS TRAINING CENTER-Four Furlongs-Dirt Fast-48:40 Handily
02/24/2009-PALM MEADOWS TRAINING CENTER-Four Furlongs-Dirt Fast-49:85 Breezing

[VirginiaBred]

Jose Lezcano, who rode Nicanor in his previous start, has the return call. Nicanor set the pace under Lezcano before he was overtaken in the stretch by winner Custom for Carlos in a seven-furlong maiden special weight race on March 7 at Gulfstream.

[Glimmerglass]

Looks like he too would be subject to the lien imposed upon those horses stabled at Palm Meadows (http://www.paulickreport.com/blog/liens-filed-on-horses-at-palm-meadows/) ;)

[ivy62]

does anyone know what time the race goes off?

[QHEventr]

looks like the race is 6 minutes out.....on HRTV right now

[dcm]

In about 5 minutes

[ivy62]

I do not have HRTV! can someone let me know how he looks and does? Thanks Ya know a lot of great horses do well after the three year old season, I still have faith in him.....

[QHEventr]

He's going off as the 3-5 favorite (at least he was a few minutes ago). He looked VERY professional in the post parade.

[ivy62]

I hope this is not too much pressure for the guy. Such high expectations but he may still prevail..I want to see the race!!!!!!

[QHEventr]

He ran a hard fought second, IMHO. Didn't have a ton of kick turning for home, bot he looked like he hung in there and tried

[dcm]

Second by a head, several lengths ahead of 3rd & 4th.

Exciting finish though!

[dcm]

Time for 1 mile race was 1:36:08. Nicky's head at 1st place horse's shoulder. How does that compare with other times?

[ivy62]

Is there a replay any where? Did he have a clean trip? He is still earning a paycheck so that is good...Maybe he is more likely a sprinter even though his pedigree says distance, no?

[Glimmerglass]

Video Replay: Gulfstream Park Race 5 - Mar 28, 2009 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_zZbchbhcU)

[ivy62]

Thanks Glimmer.....
He is still looking okay...hope he cools out fine and I wait to see the next race.....He still looks like needs to learn a lot...NO? Always gaining at the wire thought he might have caught him....

[hessy35]

He is a good horse. As soon as he figures out that winning is the goal I don't think he'll run second again. He is still figuring it out in his head. The "Oh, I'm supposed to beat that horse in front of me" light bulb needs to go off, and then I think we'll be in for quite a show with this horse.

[Glimmerglass]

He's going to see if the turf is more to his liking ...

TB Times May 11, 2009 "Nicanor to make turf debut on Wednesday" (http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/racing-news/2009/May/11/Nicanor-to-make-turf-debut-on-Wednesday.aspx)

.. will make his turf debut on Wednesday in a maiden special weight at Delaware Park. Nicanor was tabbed the 5-to-2 morning-line favorite for the 1 1/16-mile turf race for three-year-olds and older. The race drew 11 horses as well as three also-eligible entrants.

Race 6 - 3:30 PM EST - $38,000 Maiden Special Weight (http://www.equibase.com/premium/eqbRaceEntriesDisplay.cfm?TRK=DEL&CY=USA&DATE=05/13/2009&STYLE=eqb#RN6) @ 1 1/16th mile on turf

Interestingly his new jockey: Anna Rosie Napravnik

[Glimmerglass]

Whoa! Ding, ding, ding I think we have a turf horse :)

Nicanor wins by at least 10-lengths maybe a bit more.

[QHEventr]

HOLY COW! What a lovely race to watch. I have to say I was a bit concerned when he was hussled up early on, but if really worked...

Very impressive, and he looked much more comfortable on the grass, and going long.

Johanna

[Cammie]

He looked pretty good- no idea how strong the competition was, but he looks really comfortable on the turf. Stretched out nicely.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFxTN1krFuY

[Glimmerglass]

It looked longer then 10-lengths and was: 15 1/4 length victory today on the turf!

[Sing Mia Song]

Late, long and on the lawn! :lol: A very nice effort!

[elsbet]

Nice job!!! He looked really good out there on the grass. :yes::yes::yes:

[Mara]

Late, long and on the lawn! :lol: A very nice effort!

How I like 'em! Good job, clearly the class of the field.

[Marney]

I am so excited!! What a race!

[VirginiaBred]

It looked longer then 10-lengths and was: 15 1/4 length victory today on the turf!


As I've been cooped up in a freaking conference ALL DAY, I can't tell you how sweet that was to see!!!!!!!!



YAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!

(made me tear up a bit too, I'll tell ya)

[tradewind]

Very impressive effort, it seems that the turf suits him. Here is wishing for more future success for him and his connections.

[ivy62]

YIPPEE!!!!!! So he lives up to his breeding! Maybe he just likes the grass better. He was bred to run on grass and looks like a grass horse. He was very impressive today..May he have continued success and safety....maybe in years to come maybe he could go to Europe and kick some butt..I know I am dreaming but why not! The L'Arc here we come!!!!! could you imagine! What afamily of racehorses thatw ould be...

[dcm]

Way to go Nicanor! Glad to see he may have found his "thing".

[War Admiral]

Congrats to Nicanor and his connections! :yes:

I don't really follow the turf that much... How do his times compare as against other good/great horses on the grass?

[Lauruffian]

Awwwwwwwwww. That made me tear up! :)

The time was the one thing, War Admiral--it was so wonderful to see Nicanor just own the lawn like that, but his times were quite slow. I don't know what Delaware's turf is like, but typically turf races are a bit faster. He was allowed to set a slow pace--24, 49, 1:14--that's pretty pedestrian. Anyone know what the grass is like at Delaware?

[Drvmb1ggl3]

Congrats to Nicanor and his connections! :yes:

I don't really follow the turf that much... How do his times compare as against other good/great horses on the grass?


He'd probably have a hard time keeping up with his brother. Barbaro won the Tropical Park Derby, over 9f, in about the same time it took Nicky to go 8.5f. In other words he covered 110 more yards (a football field) in the same time. Barbaro also won his debut over 8.5f at Laurel in 1m40sec. But it's on the grass, so time hardly matters.

I wonder if they'll try to step him up in class, maybe take a swing at the Virginia Derby or the Secretariat Stakes at Arlington.

[ivy62]

As far as the times, they probably are not pushing him. I believe he was hand ridden so he may be better then those times but all he had to do was beat the ones he raced against...maybe he could do hurdles!!!! He has a very famous half brother( I know different mother but the genes are still there!) McDynamo who was awesome

[Beezer]

Nicely done. :yes:

Since I've long been a fan of the good turf horse. here's hoping Nic continues to develop!!

[hessy35]

I think it was a combination of the turf and the blinkers.. the blinkers being the biggest factor. He spent too much time playing down the stretch before with the other hoses. I think he's going to be quite something now that he is learning how to win!! :)

[Glimmerglass]

I think it was a combination of the turf and the blinkers.. the blinkers being the biggest factor.

I'll also toss in the new jockey - Anna! Who also is a brand new factor into the success. She knows the DelPark turf course and while Nicanor was game to take the lead early she didn't see that as him being rank and try and fight him.

[VirginiaBred]

He was bred for turf, and was so much more relaxed! :)

[FatDinah]

New York TImes article on him.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/23/sports/23racing.html?hpw

[J. Turner]

Isn't the Arc clockwise? This seems like it would seriously throw these horses off, the creatures of habit that they are.

[VirginiaBred]

New York TImes article on him.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/23/sports/23racing.html?hpw


Thank you for posting that! :)

[Mara]

Interesting.
Stiff test for Nicanor next time out; he'll be facing other winners.

[holmes]

You have to be awfully careful of changing too much at one time with a horse as you can not be sure what exactly worked - if he is just a turf horse (which it looks like he is) putting blinkers on him could be bad and if he does not always win by such a large margin could make him rank.

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[ivy62]

HLS- I guess they won't know until the next time out but he seemed pretty comfy with the changes..Wonder when and where he will race next? I know it will be on the turf so we will have to wait and see. Honestly, I wish him a long life as a good racehorse and may he come home safe...

[holmes]

I bet their goal is to get him into a stakes race at Saratoga or somewhere in July/August maybe the Hall of Fame or The Sword Dancer Invitational .

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[ivy62]

If he goes to Saratoga I might just have to drive up there for the race! I wonder what Lentenor is going to do? I know he is early in his training but the bloodlines definetly have talent...

[holmes]

I hope they start him at DE Park- Saratoga breaks so many good horses hearts!

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[ivy62]

Is Saratoga that difficult of a track or is it the competition? We have not seen him work for the win yet so he may still be trying to figure out what to do....Delaware would be nice..Would love to see him become an awesome turf horse..

[holmes]

Nicanor should have no problem there - it is just where everyone takes their top 2 year olds and the competition is fierce. If you have a good horse and get a couple easier wins under their belt, they will fair much better then putting them in at the top level (even if they are a top horse) and make them work that much harder for it.

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[harvestmoon]

Did everyone see that Nicanor won his race today? :)

[lizathenag]

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/race/race-results/allowance-opt-claim

wire to wire. daylight between him and the next horse the whole race!

[dcm]

Way to go Nicky! It was a $39k allowance race.

Times posted for the mile 1/8 race:
1/4 24:0
1/2 48:2
3/4 1:13:3
1 mi 1:39:2
Finish 1:52:4

Comments? I'll admit, I don't know much except he finished first, which is what really counts, but I'd like to hear comments on his time.

[Glimmerglass]

For those who want to see the race .... Video replay: June 17, 2009 DelPark 8th race, Turf 1 1/8 mi allowance (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VqceB2o9WY)

Interestingly in that race is 4-yr old Stevil a one-time 2008 contender for the Kentucky Derby and Preakness starter under trainer Nick Zito.

[elsbet]

Way to go Nicky! Congrats to the whole team. :)

[VirginiaBred]

Did everyone see that Nicanor won his race today? :)


Wasn't it grand???!!!! :cool::cool::cool:

[ivy62]

It looked like he was pulling Rosie at the beginning I hope he doesn't burn out going wire to wire...I also wonder how he would handle a challenge..No horse has come up head to head with him yet.,Can he look them in the eye and dig in? this remains to be seen...I hope so!!!!

[vineyridge]

I saw something somewhere that Lentenor is at Fair Hill and had a work a couple of days ago. If anyone has him in a virtual stable, more information would be welcome.

[ivy62]

Lentenor did have his first work and it went well..Was told MM was pleased....

[J. Turner]

I saw something somewhere that Lentenor is at Fair Hill and had a work a couple of days ago. If anyone has him in a virtual stable, more information would be welcome.

I believe he breezed 3f in :38.

See the Barbaro's Brother blog on the Blood Horse:
http://cs.bloodhorse.com/blogs/nicanor/archive/2009/06/15/Lentenor-breezes.aspx?CommentPosted=true#commentMessage

[Beezer]

WTG Nicanor! I have always loved me the (late-developing) TB, lest they lead to the terrific show horse. :lol:

[grits]

La Ville Rouge is carrying a filly. (http://cs.bloodhorse.com/blogs/nicanor/archive/2009/06/29/La-Ville-Rouge.aspx) :D

[J. Turner]

La Ville Rouge is carrying a filly. (http://cs.bloodhorse.com/blogs/nicanor/archive/2009/06/29/La-Ville-Rouge.aspx) :D

I almost wish she wouldn't race and let her grown up a little and be a broodmare. But they can hurt themselves doing nothing can't they?

[ivy62]

Not true, they can get hurt in a stall! I am always going to air on the side of caution but imagine if she had talent too! and of course the good looks.... We will want Lots of pictures!

[Catsdorule-sigh]

Hoping that all goes well and La Ville Rouge does deliver a healthy filly. (How often are ultrasounds wrong? Article said it was most likely a filly)

Provided LVR has the filly next spring, do you think, now that they finally have one, the Jacksons will try another sire? I would have thought Rahy for LVR but now he's retired. Would have brought in LVR's Blushing Groom again. What about Rahy's replacement, Lewis Michael? Blushing Groom again plus Roberto (Dynamformer) through Lear Fan.

I think my goal with LVR would be fillies which they haven't had a lot of luck getting. So try for another on similar but not quite the same cross?

[hessy35]

So glad they will have a filly (if all goes well). Four sibs already! Wow, it seems like yesterday that Barbaro was put down. I believe there are five names in that hound panitnig that Mrs. Jackson is taking the names from. Perfect! :)

[Lora]

How many foals has La Ville Rouge had in how many years?

[hessy35]

How many foals has La Ville Rouge had in how many years?

Nicanor was born when Barbaro was three. Then Letatnor the next year. The following year she was barren. She just gave birth to her latest colt in May, and now she is foal with the filly.

[juliet]

Holy Ground by Saint Ballado at stud (horse 2002)

Man in Havana by Quiet American unraced (gelding 2004) supposedly in training to be a jumper at end of 2008

[juliet]

Looking Back to Look Forward
27 Aug 2008 3:30 PM45 CommentsOne of the most common questions surrounding Nicanor concerns when he will make his first start. However, there is no need to get worried that he hasn’t raced yet.

Although it is very important not to confuse the 2-year-old Dynaformer colt with his siblings, a quick peek at his family history might help ease the worried minds of those who are concerned he hasn’t raced yet.

La Ville Rouge’s first foal is Holy Ground, a stakes-winning son of Saint Ballado that was born in 2002. He also was bred by the Jacksons and trained by Matz.

Holy Ground found his biggest success as a 3-year-old, when he won the 2005 Stanton Stakes at Delaware Park by 13 1/4 lengths. He also placed in two other stakes races that year.

As a 2-year-old, however, Holy Ground only raced once. His first race came Nov. 27, 2004, and he won that contest, a 6 1/2-furlong maiden special weight, by 8 1/2 lengths.

Next up for La Ville Rouge, of course, was Barbaro. He only made two starts a juvenile, and he won them both. His first race came Oct. 4, 2005, and he won the 1 mile special weight by 8 1/2 lengths. Barbaro finished his 2-year-old season in the Laurel Futurity, which was held Nov. 19. He won that day by eight lengths.

La Ville Rouge’s only other foal of racing age is Man in Havana, who is unraced. The son of Quiet American was not interested in racing and has been gelded.

For what it is worth, two of the most popular runners this year, Curlin and Big Brown, had limited or non-existent 2-year-old campaigns. Curlin, the reigning Horse of the Year, did not race at all at 2, while Big Brown only made one start. The future Kentucky Derby winner first ran in a race on Sept. 3, 2007, but did not start again until this March.

So, be patient -- it is only August, after all. Also, please remember, that when and where Nicanor will make his first start is solely up to the Jacksons and Michael Matz.


Filed under: Nicanor, man in havana, barbaro, jacksons, michael matz
45 Comments:

[ASB Stars]

Does anyone remember the other hound names from the picture that Jacksons have, that might make nice girly names? Barbaro does NOT sound like a girly name...Nicanor, not so much, either...

[Frog]

What's Nicanor up to? Any recent workouts? He is nominated to the Virginia Derby...

[Blacklabs]

Does anyone remember the other hound names from the picture that Jacksons have, that might make nice girly names? Barbaro does NOT sound like a girly name...Nicanor, not so much, either...


Barbaro,Nicanor, Lentenor, Margano, Sereno and Calypso.

[ASB Stars]

Well, Margano and Sereno sound nice! :lol: I guess we'll see!

[Glimmerglass]

It does appear that on Monday when the entry box is closed on the $750,000 Virginia Derby (gr. IIT) (http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/51563/nicanor-among-probables-for-virginia-derby?id=51563) Nicanor will be an entry. It will be a huge step up from the allowance fields he's taken on since switching to the turf.

These aren't pushover runners - Lime Rickey is a very good turf runner, Hold Me Back was a Kentucky Derby runner and successful on synthetics, etc. So if he even finishes in the top 3 it will be impressive.

[Blinkers On]

wow, I'd say it is a big step up! Were his numbers for that maiden race that impressive? It seems like a massive jump for a hore that still has conditions left.

[SteeleRdr]

He's been in more than just the maiden race. He won an allowance just recently at Delaware.

[ivy62]

Does anyone know who has the ride?

[Blinkers On]

He's been in more than just the maiden race. He won an allowance just recently at Delaware.



Was that not a Maiden Special Weight he won or was it for winners with a clause??
Ah somewhere I lost that he has won two races. The last race being the first condition a Del. Here's hoping he can carry aainst even better

[Laurierace]

He won a MSW and a 1X aka a maiden allowance and an allowance race for horses who have only won one race other than a maiden, claimer or starter race.

[Glimmerglass]

Does anyone know who has the ride?

The entries aren't final so its not official yet. However they'd be fools to drop Anna now - she seems to be part of the puzzle.

[Blinkers On]

He won a MSW and a 1X aka a maiden allowance and an allowance race for horses who have only won one race other than a maiden, claimer or starter race.

I gathered that. How did I miss the maiden score or did I? I have been so busy who knows what I have or havent noticed. So he is eligible for the second condition?

[Beezer]

How did I miss the maiden score or did I? I have been so busy who knows what I have or havent noticed. So he is eligible for the second condition?

He's won two on the turf now, including his maiden win by a smokin' 15-plus lengths. His second win was wire-to-wire in an allowance. So he's still eligible for the non-winners of two other than a MSW, but it seems his connections are ready to move him on up.

In five starts, he has two wins and two seconds. Not perfection, but a very looooong way from the complete and total failure some predicted for him.

As someone who's long been a fan of a good turf horse, NIcanor has my attention. :yes:

[Blinkers On]

Wow, I did totally miss the one race. Good for him. I hope he rocks the turf, and I hope he does it all year olng and next year as well. That would be great to see!

[Mara]

Looking Back to Look Forward
27 Aug 2008 3:30 PM45 CommentsOne of the most common questions surrounding Nicanor concerns when he will make his first start. However, there is no need to get worried that he hasn’t raced yet.

Although it is very important not to confuse the 2-year-old Dynaformer colt with his siblings, a quick peek at his family history might help ease the worried minds of those who are concerned he hasn’t raced yet.

La Ville Rouge’s first foal is Holy Ground, a stakes-winning son of Saint Ballado that was born in 2002. He also was bred by the Jacksons and trained by Matz.

Holy Ground found his biggest success as a 3-year-old, when he won the 2005 Stanton Stakes at Delaware Park by 13 1/4 lengths. He also placed in two other stakes races that year.

As a 2-year-old, however, Holy Ground only raced once. His first race came Nov. 27, 2004, and he won that contest, a 6 1/2-furlong maiden special weight, by 8 1/2 lengths.

Next up for La Ville Rouge, of course, was Barbaro. He only made two starts a juvenile, and he won them both. His first race came Oct. 4, 2005, and he won the 1 mile special weight by 8 1/2 lengths. Barbaro finished his 2-year-old season in the Laurel Futurity, which was held Nov. 19. He won that day by eight lengths.

La Ville Rouge’s only other foal of racing age is Man in Havana, who is unraced. The son of Quiet American was not interested in racing and has been gelded.

For what it is worth, two of the most popular runners this year, Curlin and Big Brown, had limited or non-existent 2-year-old campaigns. Curlin, the reigning Horse of the Year, did not race at all at 2, while Big Brown only made one start. The future Kentucky Derby winner first ran in a race on Sept. 3, 2007, but did not start again until this March.

So, be patient -- it is only August, after all. Also, please remember, that when and where Nicanor will make his first start is solely up to the Jacksons and Michael Matz.


Filed under: Nicanor, man in havana, barbaro, jacksons, michael matz
45 Comments:

Does anyone know who has Man In Havana, and what he's doing now since he didn't care for the track?

[hessy35]

Does anyone know who has Man In Havana, and what he's doing now since he didn't care for the track?

Last I hear he was on the hunter/jumper circuit and very loved.

[hessy35]

What's Nicanor up to? Any recent workouts? He is nominated to the Virginia Derby...

He posted a fast 5 furlong workout this week. Top of the heap for that distance. Nicanor is a very good horse. He is very strong and wants things his way. I'm excited about the Virginia Derby. I think he'll do well...

[ivy62]

I hope he is able to be rated...There are some good horses there...Cannot wait! Hope it is broadcast some where....

[Glimmerglass]

I hope he is able to be rated...There are some good horses there...Cannot wait! Hope it is broadcast some where....

I believe that TVG (and not HRTV) carries the track signal on a routine basis. CBS Sports has carried the Virginia Derby (G2-t) in the last few years although I'm not sure if that holds true in 2009.

[SteeleRdr]

Also going to be a live stream broadcast on virginiaequestrian.com

[Madeline]

Last I hear he was on the hunter/jumper circuit and very loved.

Near as I can tell, Man in Havana is showing low level jumpers with Joy Slater- Fat Chance Farm. He is showing under his real name.

[Glimmerglass]

Guiding the thread back to the original subject of Nicanor ...

Confirmed with today's entry closing - he'll be making his stakes debut in Saturday's $750,000 Virginia Derby (G2) at Colonial Downs and the 1 1/4-mile turf affair has drawn a strong field of 10 three-year-olds. In the field will be top four finishers from the Colonial Cup prep race. It does appear the connections have dumped .. err rather "changed" the jockey from Anna.

PP. Horse (Jockey, Assigned Weight)
1. Affirmatif (Chris DeCarlo, 117)
2. Florentino (Alan Garcia, 121)
3. Take the Points (Edgar Prado, 117)
4. Nicanor (Jose Lezcano, 117)
5. Safety Valve (E. Camacho, 117)
6. Straight Story (Chuck Lopez, 117)
7. Hold Me Back (Kent Desormeaux, 117)
8. El Crespo (Julien Leparoux, 121)
9. Battle of Hastings (Tyler Baze, 121)
10. Lime Rickey (Cornelio Velasquez, 117)

It does not appear that (http://drf.com/news/article/105483.html) CBS sports will be airing the race this year. Although maybe some last minute deal can be worked out with some anticpated extra interest.

The Virginia Derby is carded as the 11th of 12 Saturday races, with post time set for 5:59 p.m. Eastern. It will anchor an all-stakes pick three, with the $50,000 Kitten's Joy (race 9) and the $150,000 Virginia Oaks (race 10) leading into it. The Virginia Oaks, a Grade 3 race at 1 1/8 miles, drew a field of 11 3-year-old fillies.

TVG will provide live coverage of the entire Colonial card.

[Frog]

All of which begs the question...
Who's going to the Virginia Derby?? And how much money are we going to make?

[Glimmerglass]

All of which begs the question...
Who's going to the Virginia Derby?? And how much money are we going to make?

Well IMHO this race will make the non-FOBs likely a decent return. The odds are asine in my view with Nicanor being listed as the ML favorite. How that was determined is beyond me. Yes his fans will wager on him and bet him down but the track odds maker shouldn't peg his ML odds based upon popularity.

VA Daily Press 7-1409 -- Odds listed here at bottom (http://www.dailypress.com/sports/dp-spt_vaderby0714jul14,0,1130202.story)

7-2 for Nicanor vs. Battle of Hastings at 6-1 ... that's just nuts!

Frankly Nicanor, despite the two allowance wins against unknown runners, should be at best 12-1 when facing multple graded-turf runners

[Calico]

Morning line odds aren't meant to predict who is most likely to win, but rather how the public will bet.

Handicappers will be thanking the FOB's all the way to the bank come Saturday :winkgrin:

[Mara]

Some of the FOB's are just sure that Nicanor and Lentenor both are Breeder's Cup bound this fall. That would make for some interesting betting.

[Glimmerglass]

Televison coverage per an equibase notice from this evening:

$750,000 Virginia Derby (G2)
On CBS Sports Saturday July 18, 2009: 5:00 PM EST

[ivy62]

To be honest, if the fans like Nicanor and send him off as the morning line favorite with his following it is still good for racing. The more interst the better. just hope everyone has a safe trip!

[VirginiaBred]

From the Virginia Derby:

(from Bloodhorse)

Nicanor, the full brother to Kentucky Derby Presented by Yum! Brands (gr. I) winner Barbaro, has has been scratched from the Virginia Derby (gr. IIT) on Saturday because of a leg injury.
Trainer Michael Matz says Nicanor injured his left hind leg during a gallop the other day. The injury became evident when the horse worked out Thursday in Maryland.
The $750,000 Virginia Derby at Colonial Downs would have marked Nicanor's stakes debut. Nicanor has won his last two starts on grass after not winning in three starts on dirt.

[Calico]

Hind leg injury? huh.

[Glimmerglass]

As an aside, but moot now for the FOBs, the report of CBS's coverage is dubious. CBS2 Chicago is not airing the race but instead will have an infomerical on a slightly racing associated non-for-profit - Alex's Lemonade Stand - go figure.

Sorry about the injury to Nicanor. Even if he had been in the race I still expected then and now for Lime Rickey to win the race in an upset :)

[ivy62]

Do we know how long he will be sidelined? I was really looking forward to see him step up in class to see how he faired...Should still be a good race.....

[VirginiaBred]

Sorry about the injury to Nicanor. Even if he had been in the race I still expected then and now for Lime Rickey to win the race in an upset :)



Now wait a minute......................;)

[J. Turner]

How does one diagnose a bone bruise? Is it basically swelling on a bony area and an assumption that it's a bruise after any soft tissue or fractures have been ruled out?

[Elisha]

Not sure if it is the same in horses as humans, but I am currently healing from a bone bruise. It is basically a very small fracture that is not seen in x-rays. MRI, CAT scans, and bone scans are used to find them. My horse stomped on my foot sending me immediately to the emergency room....x-rays came out clean but by the swelling the doctor knew something was wrong. MRI detected small cracks in a couple of the bones. I'm assuming that it is the same for horses.

[Beezer]

How does one diagnose a bone bruise? Is it basically swelling on a bony area and an assumption that it's a bruise after any soft tissue or fractures have been ruled out?

That would be by that fancy, dancy, no doubt very expensive nuclear scintigraphy done on him at New Bolton.

But, yeah, basically it's the "OW! CRAP!! STOP THAT!!!" reaction one has when someone else presses on a very sore but non-fractured area that will one day soon show up in splendiferous colors (assuming, of course, that one is a human and that the bone bruise is not in an area covered by an abundance of hair). Minor bump and/or large hematoma optional.

[ivy62]

Does anyone know how he doing and what is up with Lenetanor?

[VirginiaBred]

Nicanor Turned Out for 60 Days; Lentenor Working Regularly

20 Aug 2009 10:39 AM
(from Bloodhorse)

While Lentenor continues his regular workouts at Fair Hill Training Center, his full brother, Nicanor, has been turned out and won't return to training until 60 days from when he was scratched out of the July 18 Virginia Derby due to a leg injury. So, based on that schedule Nicanor will be turned out and walked in the shedrow until mid- to late September.
"Lentenor worked a nice three-eighths (of a mile, in :37 2/5) and galloped out a half-mile," Matz said. "He's working regularly."
Meanwhile, back at the farm, Headley Bell said the full brother to Lentenor and Nicanor foaled earlier this year is in a will soon join the other young horses in a paddock at Mill Ridge Farm.
Nicanor, Lentenor, and the unnamed foal are all sired by Dynaformer and produced from the mare La Ville Rouge, making them full brothers to Kentucky Derby winner Barbaro. La Ville Rouge is in foal to Dynaformer again this year, and fetal sex testing has determined she is carrying a filly, which would be the first in a male-dominated family.

[War Admiral]

T'Times tweets:

Unraced two-year-old colt Lentenor, full brother to Barbaro, breezed 4f in :50.40 (ranked 10th of 13) today at Fair Hill

(Wow!!! I beat VB with one!!! :lol:)

[VirginiaBred]

T'Times tweets:



(Wow!!! I beat VB with one!!! :lol:)


:cool::lol:

[VirginiaBred]

Roy Jackson: Everything is Going Well


Touching base with Roy Jackson this afternoon, he said things are going well for Barbaro's full siblings - Lentenor, Nicanor, and the colt foaled this year, as well as with dam La Ville Rouge.
"Everything is going along pretty well," the owner said.
Although he did not have specifics, Jackson said Lentenor will start at some point in the fall, as he is now working steadily for Michael Matz. Likewise, Matz has not decided exactly when Nicanor, who was scratched out of the Virginia Derby, would make his return to competition, but it would also be in the fall. "We just had to give him some time (off)," Jackson said.
Of the 2009 colt, "he was full of it" the last time I saw him, said Jackson, who along with his wife Gretchen, operate Lael Stables.
Jackson said no decision has been made on the name of the 2009 foal and that he would be named when all the other Lael Stable horses are named. "We have until the first of the year. It takes a little while."


www.bloodhorse.com (http://www.bloodhorse.com)

[laserRob]

Look for the Nicanor retirement announcement soon.

In my humble opinion.

Rob

[ivy62]

Why?Do you have any info that we do not know?

[hessy35]

Look for the Nicanor retirement announcement soon.

Rob

Well that sucks. He was just getting started! Too bad. I hate it when horses with so much potential retire so young. It just doesn't seem fair to them.

[vineyridge]

Many times when owners or trainers go on about how well their laid up horses are doing, the horse ends up retiring. It happens an awful lot.

If Nicanor has to retire this young with so few races from a bone soundness problem, that would put a huge question mark in MY mind about all the full siblings. :(

[ivy62]

Do we really know this horse is retiring? I had always thought MM was very careful when bringing horses back...

[BeHonest]

Rob,
This will be my one and only post here, But, It really is disingenuous to spread a rumor that has no merit behind it. I don't know if it is because you crave the attention or not. I believe you owe an apology for writing what you did regarding Nicanor being retired soon. Please state your facts behind that comment, You can't, because it isn't true...

Trust Me, Nicanor will be back, That is all I can say on the matter...

Everyone have a good night...

[laserRob]

La Ville Rouge and Dynaformer.......

Barbaro, Nicanor, Lentenor, 2009 colt, 2010 filly.

The Jackson 5.

No more for Dynaformer.....save the $150 Grand.

And, get one step further from that suspect Mr. Prospector blood.

Nicanor has shown enough.....and at 17+ hands.......just what the Jackson's are looking for when breeding with the smallish 'LVR' type bloodline .

Nicanor will soon assume the duty for the ill-fated Barbaro.

Consecutive breakdowns within The Jackson 5 would alienate Roy and Gretchen's 'vox populi'.

In my humble opinion.

Rob

[laserRob]

Yeah........off topic........

Teaching institutions have totally failed the Horse Racing/Equine community.

Rob

[Little Hound]

From what I heard from someone that works for Matz, Nicanor has started jogging again but is still not right, and they're not quite sure what's going on with him.

[CJLAKEWOOD]

La Ville Rouge and Dynaformer.......

Barbaro, Nicanor, Lentenor, 2009 colt, 2010 filly.

The Jackson 5.

No more for Dynaformer.....save the $150 Grand.

And, get one step further from that suspect Mr. Prospector blood.

Nicanor has shown enough.....and at 17+ hands.......just what the Jackson's are looking for when breeding with the smallish LVR.

Nicanor will soon assume the duty for the ill-fated Barbaro.

Consecutive breakdowns within The Jackson 5 would alienate Roy and Gretchen's 'vox populi'.

The Jackson's.........class, or crass?

Rob


okaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay....so that's your opinion. That's far different from your earlier post, which is also your opinion. Shouldn't you say so instead of giving the appearance you have insider information?

[hessy35]

La Ville Rouge and Dynaformer.......

Barbaro, Nicanor, Lentenor, 2009 colt, 2010 filly.

The Jackson 5.

No more for Dynaformer.....save the $150 Grand.

And, get one step further from that suspect Mr. Prospector blood.

Nicanor has shown enough.....and at 17+ hands.......just what the Jackson's are looking for when breeding with the smallish LVR.

Nicanor will soon assume the duty for the ill-fated Barbaro.

Consecutive breakdowns within The Jackson 5 would alienate Roy and Gretchen's 'vox populi'.

The Jackson's.........class, or crass?

Rob

If you know nothing, say nothing. If you need attention, find it elsewhere. Don't start rumors.

[VirginiaBred]

I've checked in with my sources who tell me nothing of the sort has been announced or mentioned at this point.

[Barbarofan]

Laser Rob,
You had better know what you are talking about because you've started an uproar and saying what you did about the Jacksons and the Dynaformer/La Ville Rouge matings can lead to many problems for you.

[laserRob]

Time will tell

Rob

[laserRob]

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/horse/triplecrown08/columns/story?columnist=nack_bill&id=3399004

[Glimmerglass]

I really don't see the point in stirring up the FOB's with unsupportable info. This thread as been chugging along just fine without it being excessively cheerleading and absent any anti-Jackson agendas. I'd suggest just moving along if the comments aren't constructive. Rehashing Eight Belles, Barbaro and other well mourned tragedies simply looks to needle a community with no end benefit.

[ivy62]

Thank you Glimmer..and Virginiabred I wait to see what happens..

[laserRob]

I really don't see the point in stirring up the FOB's with unsupportable info. This thread as been chugging along just fine without it being excessively cheerleading and absent any anti-Jackson agendas. I'd suggest just moving along if the comments aren't constructive. Rehashing Eight Belles, Barbaro and other well mourned tragedies simply looks to needle a community with no end benefit.

I posted at COTH, not fobland. I long ago removed the batteries in my fobot remote control.

My initial post was simply: 'How's Nic' + 'personal sentiment' said in a few short words. Unfortunately it did not include 'IMHO'. My mistake.

"anti-Jackson agendas"? Nope. I got no gripes with them.

And, I want to extend a personal apology to The Jackson's, or anyone closely associated w/Nicanor if my post IN ANY WAY inconvenienced them. Not my intent.

Rob

BTW, the link I posted is a damn good read. Too bad there's no NTSB for racing.

[ivy62]

There are plenty of FOB's on this board so why would you think that it is not being read by them? There are plenty of articles about that subject and a better one about Ruffian in particular but it doesn't belong here...This is a nice thread to follow one particular horse that a lot of people have interest in. If you do not have something nice to say or at least the truth don't say anything at all..troll.......and do Dynaformer babies have a habit of breaking down? Ask McDynamo....
If you want to start a thread about sire lines then do it. This is not the place...

[VirginiaBred]

According to Kim Brette:

"Nicanor has had a break for 90 days but he is doing great, he needed the time and I am sure come early spring next year you will see him in action..."


She would know. :)

Thanks to Kim & Alex for the info. :)

*edited to add that misinformation or speculation is harmful to not only the horse, but all associated, so please post with facts.

[J. Turner]

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/horse/triplecrown08/columns/story?columnist=nack_bill&id=3399004

Remember that article is an editorial. Some of the things written are fact, some are theses with fact behind them, but not yet proven, and others are pure opinion.

It is a bit inflammatory and reactionary in tone, which is understandable for the time.

He should check his facts though. In the sidebar, he calls standardbreds and Quarter horses mongrels. Well, Quarter Horses have their own problems in weakness of line and it is a closed stud book, save the appendix which admits, what else, thoroughbreds! I don't know about standardbreds.

Racing is so hard on them. The same horse that couldn't race again with two bowed tendons (and won $500,000 in the 90s) became a lovely junior hunter (won at Devon) at the "A" level and a Big Eq horse. There are probably sounder thoroughbreds - you wouldn't have to open the stud book - but they are probably slower, or sport horses.

[laserRob]

There are plenty of FOB's on this board so why would you think that it is not being read by them? There are plenty of articles about that subject and a better one about Ruffian in particular but it doesn't belong here...This is a nice thread to follow one particular horse that a lot of people have interest in. If you do not have something nice to say or at least the truth don't say anything at all..troll.......and do Dynaformer babies have a habit of breaking down? Ask McDynamo....
If you want to start a thread about sire lines then do it. This is not the place...

For chrissakes, 'ivy62', Fob's, Blob's, or Slob's.......I don't tailor my posts toward any particular group.

Got a problem? It's yours......not mine.

Whether I be in the racing grandstand, high-rise penthouse, or simply an Internet goof, I'm entitled to post.

Now..........what I really wanted to say:

I'm a big Musket Man fan. Yes, there's online documentation. I've also written very positively about Nicanor.

They both went down with the same described affliction this past July.......and set to reenter the arena in early 2010.

Confirmed? Who really knows the future? IMHO, one ain't coming back.

However, in the spirit of 'looking forward', positively....... though one is turf, the other dirt........as an individual fan, I look towards those two matching up.

Rob

[laserRob]

Remember that article is an editorial. Some of the things written are fact, some are theses with fact behind them, but not yet proven, and others are pure opinion.

It is a bit inflammatory and reactionary in tone, which is understandable for the time.

He should check his facts though. In the sidebar, he calls standardbreds and Quarter horses mongrels. Well, Quarter Horses have their own problems in weakness of line and it is a closed stud book, save the appendix which admits, what else, thoroughbreds! I don't know about standardbreds.

Racing is so hard on them. The same horse that couldn't race again with two bowed tendons (and won $500,000 in the 90s) became a lovely junior hunter (won at Devon) at the "A" level and a Big Eq horse. There are probably sounder thoroughbreds - you wouldn't have to open the stud book - but they are probably slower, or sport horses.

Good post.......your opinion is much appreciated.

However, we're gonna have to keep it 'Nicanor' related ; )>.

Thanks.

Rob