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Party Rose
Dec. 23, 2008, 12:13 AM
I need to keep the wild out of my property. I called the County Trapper again today. Since there's only three in this vast area, the fact that California protects their wildlife more than they do their taxpayers and loved ones, that the State is broke and government is cutting back and laying off, I'm not keeping my fingers crossed. I left another message.

A coyote came charging toward me yesterday morning around 9 a.m. and I heard from my neighbor that it was sitting just outside my 40 inch fence around 5 a.m. and she was afraid to get into her car to go to work. This is a residential neighborhood with lots of small children, dogs and cats, so there's lots tempting.

I need to protect Jasmine. She MUST be right near me now when she's outside. I go armed with a flashlight, pepper spray and an air horn. I also have a heavy metal pole just outside the front door.

I'll call an outdoors store tomorrow cause I seem to remember that fox urine is a deterrent. Problem there is that it's actually raining in SO Cal and the solution would dissipate and is probably expensive. This would also not be a permanent solution, though when coyotes are re-homed, others come and fill the vacant positions (so to speak). No application required!!!

I can't afford to heighten the fence and they have been known to scale the highest of em'. The landlord wouldn't go for it either, so electric keeps running through my mind.

Also moving isn't an option as they're all over. A dog was snatched from a lady walking her dog south of me yesterday and another, this one in my community, was snatched in a trailer park as it was being walked on a leash at 1:00 p.m. few months ago per my Vet. He said regardless of the time of day, always carry a strong pole where ever you are in the county.

Please any and all info is greatly appreciated. T_H_A_N_K - Y_O_U

MassageLady
Dec. 23, 2008, 01:19 AM
What is it that you need to know? Put it around the top if they're climbing in the pasture. Hook it up to the electric box, and have a copper pipe for the ground-and hook it up. Keep that area wet for good connection:yes: Perhaps you and your neighbors could all invest in a couple of great pyrenees-and enclose your yards together, that way the pyrenees would know their boundaries and help protect the entire neighborhood.:yes:

silver2
Dec. 23, 2008, 04:48 AM
You are completely over-reacting and your neighbor is a drama queen. What is a coyote going to do to a grown woman, much less a horse? It is like a small, weak dog or a large fox.

Your vet is being totally irresponsible too and causing needless panic. There are about 35 million people in CA and probably about as many dogs. If there was some kind of major problem with coyotes to where we all needed to walk around with weapons we'd have heard about it. Literally millions and millions of people walk dogs every day in So Cal and survive to tell the tale.

If you're afraid they're rabid, get someone to shoot them for you. Quick, easy, and only costs 25 cents or so. If you're just afraid of them being coyotes then you need to move to another state or country because the coyotes are not going anywhere, I have lived here long enough to be 100% sure of that.

If you live out near the woods, deal with the fact that there are animals in the woods. Or move into the city. You cannot "keep the wild out"!

cloudyandcallie
Dec. 23, 2008, 07:56 AM
Coyotes are too smart.

The only way to get rid of them is to trap or kill them.

While a healthy, well fed coyote will not attack humans, at least I've never read a report of that, a hungry coyote will do anything to get your small dog or cat and if you get in the way..................

And if it's a coyote/dog mix, all bets are off. Those animals get the worse of both species.

edited to add: I meant adults, not humans. To coyotes, children are like poodles, unfortunately.

JaneeneSings
Dec. 23, 2008, 08:05 AM
I would hot wire the top and bottom of my fence.... I live on a farm in Central Texas and we have lots of Coyotes! Coyotes are smart, but that doesn't mean that they'll figure out how to get through the electric wire; it means they'll get shocked a couple of times trying to get in and will move on to someone else's yard! ;) Good luck.

MikeP
Dec. 23, 2008, 09:21 AM
Two strands, one low and one high. Get an AC (plug in) fence charger from your feed store and follow the instructions provided with it, they are not hard to install. I'd exchange my "metal pole" for a .410 shotgun pistol, but that's just me.

tkhawk
Dec. 23, 2008, 10:20 AM
Coyotes are a problem in S.Cal sburbs. They are so brazen and show no fear of man. It's why we can't have otdoor cats or outdoor small dogs-they will make a tasty snack. We have had a few attacks on very small kids recently-not many but still a cause of concern. Althogh this is the first I heard of a single coyote going after an adult. Did you have a pet with you? I heard of mtn lion urine as a detrrant-but also heard it may attract your local cougar (not Demi Moore:winkgrin:) to come by and figure out who the resident is.

When I was up north, I rarely saw them.Of course I boarded next to giant cattle ranches who did not like them. But down here except groves of fruit tree nothing for them to bother except fruit trees and sububuranite's pets-most of whom probably do not hunt. If I recall correctly, you don't need a permit to hunt-they are non -game animals. But DFG is not going to be that responsive to just one coyote.

Watermark Farm
Dec. 23, 2008, 01:49 PM
I have Coyotes in the open space behind my property. I hot wired their side of the fence around 18 inches up. It really scared them off. I also have a mule, who will chase strange dogs that enter the property.

Mainly you want to deter them by scaring them. I fired off a .22 a few times, that worked. You can try pots and pans, and anything that smells like humans (worn clothing draped along the fence, etc.).

If one REALLY charged at you, it could be sick and should be removed. I am in Northern CA, so the same laws apply to me. You CAN shoot them without permission if they are posing a hazard to your livestock. But call around and find someone besides Fish & Game who can advise you. I feel badly for Coyotes, they are sort of the bastard stepchild wildlife around here. No one protects them, no one cares that they are struggling with less and less places to hunt.

JSwan
Dec. 23, 2008, 03:42 PM
I knew it. The other thread everyone is cooing over the wildlife, and the awful hunters, and there are at least two open threads bitching about wildlife and how to kill it.

We've got a coyote problem around here. I'd not worry about an adult unless the animal was rabid.

Small children, cats, dogs, livestock, oh yeah. A coyote will snatch your dog right off the porch or leash.

We're having trouble with predation on livestock, mostly. Farmers shoot coyote if they see them near the livestock. Dogs and cats disappearing, but mostly its livestock predation (and I suspect turkey and bobwhite)

Don't know what to deal you except deal with it yourself. Legally of course.

And that's BS about coyote "struggling". Coyote populations have exploded - they've moved into populated areas and are thriving. They are extremely adaptable creatures and will happily live in suburban, even urban areas just fine. Same with fox. These are not endangered or threatened in any way.

greysandbays
Dec. 23, 2008, 03:55 PM
Premier Fencing has a sheep and goat electrified net fence that they claim does a real good job of keeping wild preditors out and confined animals in. Only obvious drawback is there can't be any vegitation growing up on it. Well, that and it isn't very pretty...

Dazednconfused
Dec. 23, 2008, 04:00 PM
I need to keep the wild out of my property. I called the County Trapper again today. Since there's only three in this vast area, the fact that California protects their wildlife more than they do their taxpayers and loved ones, that the State is broke and government is cutting back and laying off, I'm not keeping my fingers crossed. I left another message.

A coyote came charging toward me yesterday morning around 9 a.m. and I heard from my neighbor that it was sitting just outside my 40 inch fence around 5 a.m. and she was afraid to get into her car to go to work. This is a residential neighborhood with lots of small children, dogs and cats, so there's lots tempting.

I need to protect Jasmine. She MUST be right near me now when she's outside. I go armed with a flashlight, pepper spray and an air horn. I also have a heavy metal pole just outside the front door.

I'll call an outdoors store tomorrow cause I seem to remember that fox urine is a deterrent. Problem there is that it's actually raining in SO Cal and the solution would dissipate and is probably expensive. This would also not be a permanent solution, though when coyotes are re-homed, others come and fill the vacant positions (so to speak). No application required!!!

I can't afford to heighten the fence and they have been known to scale the highest of em'. The landlord wouldn't go for it either, so electric keeps running through my mind.

Also moving isn't an option as they're all over. A dog was snatched from a lady walking her dog south of me yesterday and another, this one in my community, was snatched in a trailer park as it was being walked on a leash at 1:00 p.m. few months ago per my Vet. He said regardless of the time of day, always carry a strong pole where ever you are in the county.

Please any and all info is greatly appreciated. T_H_A_N_K - Y_O_U

This post is a joke right?

Right? Over a coyote??? :eek::lol::lol::lol:

silver2
Dec. 23, 2008, 07:54 PM
The only livestock a coyote is going to get is a small or young or sick sheep or goat. They will get chickens and cats too which is why, imho, having an outdoor cat without a barn to hide in in an area where there are coyotes is tantamount to animal abuse.

I hope this thread is a joke or that the OP either educates herself or moves back to town and leaves animal control in peace. I have seen coyotes hundreds of times and had no problems with them and on the rare occasion we get a nosy bunch my neighbors 40lb lab cross dog has killed several in one fight. They are not big tough animals and are usually not afraid of people because people feed them and leave food out for them not because they are stalking us for dinner. Coyotes are closer to foxes than wolves! They eat mice in the wild, not elk! :lol:

If you have really bold coyotes I bet you $10 some crazy cat lady in your neighborhood is feeding them either deliberately or accidentally by placing cat food out. We had one of those at our old place and we had a million coyotes. The dogs would actually play with them in the yard sometimes, they were pretty tame. Haven't eaten any babies yet.

MistyBlue
Dec. 23, 2008, 09:07 PM
A big coyote is about 30 lbs...in CA they're slightly larger and rangier than some other areas but no heavier than 40 lbs or so.
They will go after cats, small dogs, chickens, rabbits, geese, lambs, some smaller pygmy goats and sheep solo and grown sheep and goats in family groups, injured larger animals such as deer, etc. They don't eat kids or humans. That's like getting attacked by a Cocker Spaniel. (well those dogs do like to bite but few people fear getting eaten by one) The Cocker and a coyote are roughly the same weight...the Cocker being stockier built and lower to the ground and the coyote taller and thinner built but with a fluffy coat.
Was the coyote charging at you? Were there signs of aggression? Any noises, teeth bared, tail held stiff out? It could be ill...distemper or rabies. Those need to be shot...and while I know coyotes are in many suburban areas if you're living on a farm yoou need to have some sort of protection/tool for aggressive wildlife. Farms aren't just bucolic scenery spots for horses and children to romp on...wildlife is attracted to them. Some can cause issues and need to be removed. Also a real farm dog is necessary, not an ankle biter only. ;)
Fox urine will not deter a coyote...fox are one thing on a coyote's menu if there's nothing better tasting around. And if they can catch one...fox are pretty crafty at avoiding coyote if they can. Wolf musk deters coyotes, it stinks to high heaven but will withstand rain. There's an oil in it that keeps it sticking around for a few days or up to a week with or without rain. But it does need to be reapplied every week to keep coyotes and other predators away. It won't deter badgers, fishers or wolverine...those can scare off a wolf. Or in the case of a wolverine...those can run off grizzlies. And people wihtout high powered rifles. And probably rhinos...you don't want to mess with a wolverine. :winkgrin: (or a feral hog, but at least with both you'll smell them coming)
A paintball rifle is a good tool to have on a farm where the owner/operator isn't well versed with firearms or doesn't want a deadly weapon in a house with children. You can equip it with a stronger CO2 and even store the paintballs in the freezer and really deter the heck out of a coyote. And bruise the snot out of it too if the rounds are frozen. If the rounds aren't frozen and you hit them it still stings like heck...and if you miss the coyote you won't accidentally kill something else like a person or pet. You can buy them with a scope or buy a separate scope and have it attached and calibrated...makes it darned impossible to miss what you're aiming for. Takes about 30 minutes practice when you first get it to get used to it and after that you'll hit what you aim for most of the time.
Coyote are extremely smart...which is why they're one of the most adaptable North American animals. They are smarter than domestic dogs...and they're also known to be very curious and bold animals once they get used to an area and the people/animals in it. They can mock charge if they have young around...to get your attention and then they'll lead you away from the young while the other parent moves them.
Can you better describe your encounter with the coyote? Maybe someone or myself can give you an idea of what's going on.

crosscreeksh
Dec. 23, 2008, 09:27 PM
Silver2, I don't know where YOU are, but here in Olahoma the coyotes are a lot bigger than foxes and nervy as all get out!! A couple of weeks ago one gorgeous big coyote went strutting across our farm - 90 acres surrounded by 100's of acres of cattle ranches. My first thought was that it wa one of my German bred GSD's...looked that big and in excellent flesh. Before I could blink there was another one just like it tagging along. They marched right across the pasture not too far from the stables despite the fact that we have a total of 7 guardian donkeys and a big Great Pyrennes. (not loose at the time). The next evening there were FOUR who all looked in well fed condition and again crossed near the barn. My husband fired a shot in the air and they slowly changed course and strolled out through the fence. We have lost numerous barn cats to the coyotes...and yes, we feed our cats twice a day and they have five different barns to live in, but the nature of cats is to hunt and when they get caught out in the pasture, they are coyote "dinner". A woman I know lost an Italian greyhound to a coyote while she was unhitching her trailer just 10 feet away and another one almost lost a JRT who confronted the coyote, not knowing he was being surrounded by three others. When her husband went out and grabbed the dog the coyotes challenged him - a BIG man!! So YES, there is a risk of a pack attacking a human. The coyotes in "these here parts" are well fed and prosperous due to the cattle population...nothing sweet and shy about ours. They will even get a newborn calf if momma isn't on her guard! The OP should be concerned.

JSwan
Dec. 23, 2008, 09:40 PM
I've seen coyotes that are not much bigger than a fox.

And I've seen coyotes that are much much bigger than a fox. Unnaturally so. Those I'm concerned about. Not like "Oh my God I need to call 911." I'm just concerned because I don't know what they're mixed with and what sort of behavior I can expect.

We have had cases here of coyotes packing up and attacking livestock - but not full grown cattle - just the young. (as far as I know)

I don't care for them running out the fox. I'd rather deal with fox than coyote. But both are fascinating animals. :yes:

Party Rose
Dec. 23, 2008, 09:56 PM
Thank you greysandbays for the product information & MistyBlue for your lengthy and informative post. I will get on the net and look for wolf musk & Premier Fencing's website.

I live in a residential neighborhood. The only possible move would be to a cement jungle and my mind and soul could not withstand not having any nature around me and my dog.

Another neighbor came to me today to warn me and tell me of his recent experiences. YES coyotes can be VERY large around here. I had just come back into my house, dog barked & ran back out. I peeked out the levelor and saw the coyote running at full speed toward my fence, as if it thought that it could get my dog if she had tailed behind me. Thankfully Jasmine came back in immediately.

California DOES HAVE a child / coyote problem. For those of you that are disbelieving, please google it.

So lets start again: Please tell me about electrifying my fence as I am clueless. You all have the product experience, I do not and this is why I am asking.

Again, I thank you.

JSwan
Dec. 23, 2008, 10:09 PM
Around here some farmers use it for their free range poultry. I think FarmTek sells it but it's very expensive. I don't know how much you need, though.

And coyote easily jump over fence anyway.


Here is a link you might find interesting:

http://texnat.tamu.edu/publications/B-1664/p5.htm

Dazednconfused
Dec. 23, 2008, 11:08 PM
California DOES HAVE a child / coyote problem. For those of you that are disbelieving, please google it.

I live in California and have never heard of any such problems. Seriously though, coyotes? I'm doubtful. Even when used to humans, they are far more afraid of us - at the farm I worked at in Arizona ('serious' coyote country) they'd sun in our arena, and leave when approached. Mangy and harmless except in the case of distemper or rabies (not particularly common). Just because google or your vet says so doesn't make it true. Silly stories get overblown like that all the time.

silver2
Dec. 23, 2008, 11:12 PM
I'm in CA so I've been around coyotes always. They are NOT dangerous and they do NOT get to GSD size. Those are dogs if they're really that big.

party rose if your soul can't handle being parted form nature I suggest you learn to deal with living in nature. which, yes, means not leaving snack sized animals outside unattended. Electric fence won't work- the only way to keep coyotes out (or in, as we had some at a rescue) is a tall (5' or more) non-climb fence that is buried at least a foot deep, probably more. If you want to do that it'll work.

ETA If you choose to have outdoor cats in coyote country the odds are they will be eaten and that, imho, is on you not on the coyotes. Some cats are smart enough to avoid them, most are not.

Calvincrowe
Dec. 23, 2008, 11:50 PM
Urban coyotes are more brazen and visible than rural coyotes. No, they are not GSD sized, even at their largest. Perhaps 40lbs. Most are shy, but they do become very acclimated to people and town life. They are opportunistic hunters, and cats and small dogs are simply prey to them. Hungry enough, yes, coyotes will take dogs right off leashes---but honestly, folks, it is VERY rare, therefore, newsworthy. And, in the age of the internet and instant news, any "child or small dog vs. coyote attack" is BIG news.

Should you be concerned about your horses? NO. Big NO. Small livestock (goats, lambs, single sheep)? YES, in your setting.

I'd recommend exactly what others have said, electric wire low and high on a diamond mesh or "sheep wire" at least 5 feet high if you have these animals. Chain link at least 6 feet high for a yard. If the coyotes are as numerous and forward as you describe, then small animals should not be let out in the yard unwatched, regardless of fence height (although, they aren't nearly the climbers that foxes are).

I think you are being overly dramatic, but obviously you are concerned about your animal's welfare, and that's not a bad thing.

LuvMyNSH
Dec. 24, 2008, 12:03 AM
California DOES HAVE a child / coyote problem. For those of you that are disbelieving, please google it.



There have only been a hundred or so attacks on humans since 1970, with most of those being very minor. Given the ratio of humans to coyotes in SoCal and the number of human/coyotes encounters daily, that is nothing. You're more likely to get bit by your own dog.

Coyotes aren't any larger here than anywhere else - 50lbs is a BIG coyote, most are smaller. People just overestimate what they're looking at because they get upset and overreact.

I don't understand the fuss over coyotes. If you leave small dogs or cats outside understand that they are now coyote bait and don't act surprised, upset or expect sympathy when the inevitable occurs. If you know there are hungry coyotes around keep lil' yappy fluffums right at your heel, not off leash or out of control at the end of one of those retractable things that no one uses right. Don't leave small children outside unsupervised- the coyotes probably won't bother them but some pervert probably will. If an animal acts rabid (unduly aggressive or drunk, don't forget about the 'dummy' stage of the disease) get your ass out of there whether it's a coyote or a kyooot little bunny or deer. Keep tasty small livestock securely penned.

It's not hard. This area is thick with coyotes and my only losses have been a few chickens, when I was too lazy to keep a horse out that night. The coyotes won't mess with my horses. I ride, hike and walk my dogs in an area with a ton of coyotes, and I haven't had an issue. I probably see 4-5 coyotes a week. Some will stroll right by like I don't matter, sometimes getting pretty close.

As far as fencing goes, you've already had some good suggestions.

Party Rose
Dec. 24, 2008, 03:56 AM
I opened this thread to ask a legitimate question. I am unfamiliar with electric fencing and I thought that I could get some education on the subject. Instead most of you are ranting on about your feelings of truth, lie and over exaggeration. I also didn't open this thread to have to defend myself nor my neighbors. We have a problem and we need to find solutions or at least quick or temporary fixes.

If anyone would like to PM me with any information on live wire fencing I'd more than appreciate it.

I don't want to sound harsh, but since this has gone off subject I'm going to ask the moderators to close this thread. Huge thanks go out to those who have offered your assistance.

Here is an article from the LA Times that you might find interesting. It's the first and only I just looked at when I googled "coyote california children". If you still have issues I suggest that you contact David Kelly at the LA Times and find out his reaction to your beliefs.

Merry Christmas to you all...........



Archive for Thursday, May 08, 2008 (http://articles.latimes.com/2008/may/08/)


Caution urged around coyotes

The increasingly bold animals have attacked 2 toddlers in a week.
By David Kelly (http://articles.latimes.com/writers/david-kelly)
May 08, 2008 (http://articles.latimes.com/2008/may/08/local) in print edition B-1
A rash of coyote attacks on children in the Inland Empire in the last week has led to the closure of a Chino Hills park, and wildlife officials are warning parents to be more cautious around the increasingly bold animals.
“People cannot be ambivalent about coyotes,” said Harry Morse, spokesman for the California Department of Fish and Game. “When that coyote starts toward you, it’s not coming to be nice.”
Since Friday, two children have been attacked. In another incident, a coyote was headed for a toddler when it was scared off.
The most recent attack occurred Tuesday in Lake Arrowhead. San Bernardino County sheriff’s investigators said Melissa Rowley was taking pictures of her daughter and three other children in front of their home about 11:45 a.m.
When she went inside to put away the camera, a coyote ran up, grabbed Rowley’s 2-year-old daughter by the head and tried to drag her down the driveway.
When Rowley rushed the animal, it dropped the girl, who was airlifted to Loma Linda Medical Center and treated for cuts on her mouth and puncture wounds on her head and neck. Sheriff’s spokeswoman Cindy Beavers said the girl was expected to fully recover.
On Friday, a 2-year-old girl was attacked by a coyote while playing in a sandbox at Alterra Park in Chino Hills. The girl’s baby sitter heard a scream and saw the coyote trying to carry the child off in its mouth. She grabbed the girl and the animal retreated. The child suffered puncture wounds on the buttocks and was treated at a local hospital.
The next day, another toddler was approached by a coyote in the same park, but the animal was scared off by the child’s father.
In October, a 3-year-old girl living near Alterra Park was bitten three times by a coyote that attacked while she played outside. The girl survived.
“Chino Hills and Lake Arrowhead are miles from each other, so I can’t say the attacks are related,” Beavers said. “I don’t know if people are feeding these animals, but it’s certainly very brazen behavior.”
Alterra Park has been closed as trappers working for Fish and Game track down the coyotes. They have killed at least three in the last few days. One of the dead animals had an injured left foot, which fits the description of the coyote that attacked the girl Friday, authorities said.
“In the past nine months, five children have been bitten in that area,” Morse said. “We have gone in there and killed 23 coyotes since December. We want to eliminate as many as possible because they represent a serious threat to safety. They are attacking children right next to their parents.”
Morse said hunters working for Fish and Game spotted a coyote near the area where the Lake Arrowhead attack occurred, but it wasn’t safe to shoot it.
Coyotes usually are trapped in snares and shot.
The animals roam the length and breadth of California and often prey on domestic animals. But there have been 111 attacks on humans since the 1970s, injuring 136 people, said Rex O. Baker, a retired Cal Poly Pomona professor who has studied coyote behavior.
“The coyotes we are having problems with are urban coyotes, which have lost their fear of man and have become dependent on man and his environments,” he said. “We used to have programs to keep coyote populations low, but the mentality of people has changed and now they think wild animals are cuddly. They have forgotten that wildlife is wild.”
Baker said there are about four coyotes per square mile in the wild but far more near urban areas.
In 1981, when a coyote attacked and killed 3-year-old Kelly Keen in the frontyard of her Glendale home, trappers scoured the area and killed 57 coyotes within a mile of her house.
Morse, of Fish and Game, said he didn’t know what’s driving the attacks, but they aren’t the norm.
“These are predatory attacks, not just biting someone,” he said.
“We are looking at whether it’s related to breeding, denning or drought, but the simple fact is these animals are habituated to people and they have no fear.”
david.kelly@latimes.com (david.kelly@latimes.com)

silver2
Dec. 24, 2008, 04:54 AM
Party Rose, the fact remains that coyotes are ~everywhere~ in SoCal but attacks are vanishingly rare. You and your horse are probably more likely to be hurt by a toaster or a freak LA ice storm.

As for being chastised you are talking about killing wildlife that many people are fond of and consider an iconic part of the place they live just because you are unfamiliar with them and afraid. Bald eagles snatch pets too- should we wipe them out? Most of us who have spent all our lives in the country with the wildlife kind of LIKE the wildlife and want to keep it around as much as possible (except tarantualas- if I find one more in my house I'm moving to Iceland).

Also you can't keep coyotes out with hot wire effectively or reduce the population by shooting them. People have tried quite a bit. If you are set on trying to completely eliminate them from a chunk of land you're going to need some serious cage-like fencing. Or maybe a bubble.

tkhawk
Dec. 24, 2008, 08:54 AM
Yeah we live in prime coyote country. While those attacks on kids happened recently, they are not the norm. Before I moved, my BO had 93 acres. We were right between giant avacado orchards and sub-urbs/rancettes. Kind of where farmland ends and sub-urbia begins. We had tons of coyotes. None of them afraid. They walk by you or your horse in broad daylight almost like you were part of the scenery. When I first moved, I was surprised, as I was used to them being secretive and very rare to see. My BO lost a lot of fowl, cats, turkeys to them. Then she constructed a cathouse and a giant cage strcture for the birds,surrounding them with a caged area for guard dogs. She hasn't lost cats or fowl-well except her pet turkey who she used to let roam only in daylight. We had an old mare in pasture that had trouble getting up in the mornings-never bothered her.

Now I moved closer to the border down south -lovely country-now here coyote has a whole another meaning!! Edit:well I thoght a coyote was a mule -in border terms-apparantely where I ride I might come into contact with either at night- but in day it is fine-and everybody at the ranch said they leave the locals alone. Interesting change of riding for me..

Small dogs and cats-not much you can do except keep them indoors or if in fencing, one or more bigger dogs. Even then, indoors is your best bet-part of being in nature-unfortunately is the cycle of life..Good luck, haven't met too many people were any solution worked 100% except indoors -they are too damn smart...

JSwan
Dec. 24, 2008, 09:57 AM
Well if this doesn't about sum it up: (from the article)

“We used to have programs to keep coyote populations low, but the mentality of people has changed and now they think wild animals are cuddly. They have forgotten that wildlife is wild.”


News flash - nature is red in tooth and claw.

Always has been, always will be. It's humans that have lost their understanding of the natural world. Either they overreact and freak out about every little teeny thing and want everything exterminated, or they set out food for cute widdle cuddly animals and then get scared when cute widdle cuddly animal gets pissed that you didn't fill up the buffet on time.

There are plenty of ways to make your home unattractive to predators. Most of them are nonlethal. In a lot of cases a lethal solution is preferable and that's ok too. But geez - the coyote are there because there is food and a welcome sign!

LuvMyNSH
Dec. 24, 2008, 11:10 AM
Or maybe a bubble.

I bet the bubble would sell well with a lot of people.

The coyotes were sure howling last night. Maybe there really is a cougar down in the riverbed, something has more of them in the hills than usual. I wonder how many people up on the hill were huddled inside their mcmansions quaking in their uggs? :lol:

Party Rose
Dec. 24, 2008, 12:39 PM
Still off topic. Thanks goes out to those that have PM'd me with info on fencing. That's all I'm asking.

Silver2 and others, obviously you have not read what I've written. I never said a word about killing them, only keeping them out. I also no longer live on a ranch. I live in a highly populated residential neighborhood where children are always out on the streets playing.

I will again contact the moderators to close this thread as the results have created the unintended.

luvs2ridewbs
Dec. 24, 2008, 02:33 PM
Its not just California that has problems with coyotes its New England too. They have been steadily moving in and breeding with dogs. We have hybrid coyotes that are definately as big as a german shepard and bold as brass. There have been some attacks on children. And we live 45 minutes from Boston!

Moderator 1
Dec. 24, 2008, 08:02 PM
The OP is bowing out of the discussion at this point, but we'll leave the thread open as it's a valid discussion, related to the original post. We generally don't close threads upon request, unless they are in violation of board rules.

So those still interested in the overall topic of coyote control/encroachment, carry on, and maybe there will still be some info of use to the OP. :)

Thanks and Merry Christmas!
Mod 1

Catersun
Dec. 26, 2008, 02:46 PM
Here is Catersun.. living under her dirty diaper again....

What is the range of coyotes? I could google.. adn probably will later... I'm just wondering if my gun toting redneck neighbors are why I don't see coyotes, hear them, or see signs of them... or if they just don't live in my area. I know we have bobcats, bear (in the wooded areas at least) wild/feral boar, the occasional puma or big cat, foxes and other additional critters.

soccermom711
Dec. 26, 2008, 03:24 PM
Interesting. Here in Central PA alot of people think coyotes are an urban myth. Our neighbor just killed one right across the street. It was 45 lbs. He had it skinned.

We've NEVER been able to keep a barn cat. They always disappear and even though we're only a mile from the track, where there are hundreds upon hundreds of cats, you will never, ever find a stray cat out our way. We're also not far from Indiantown Gap and thousands of acres of protected woodland. So, we also see the occassional bear and fox. There's also the possibility that it's not coyote preying on the cats -- we have some elusive, yet present, bobcats. Almost a decade ago now, something removed a doberman pincher from inside the top of the barn.

It's nature --- we try to enjoy it and deal with it as successfully as possible. We have two big dogs, but don't take their safety for granted either. We just hope they serve as a possible deterrent. It is funny though how people won't believe these things until they see it for themselves.

Party Rose
Dec. 26, 2008, 10:36 PM
I finally found a few minutes to Google the coyote found two years ago in Manhattan. Here's a portion of the article:

Wily Coyote Caught in New York City After 2-Day Chase
Stefan Lovgren
for National Geographic News (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/)
March 23, 2006

Wile E. Coyote's got nothing on Hal.

After leading dozens of police officers on a two-day chase through New York's Central Park, the year-old coyote was captured yesterday.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/images/thumbs/060323_coyote_170.jpg (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/bigphotos/1609229.html)

The first sightings of the animal—nicknamed Hal by park workers—came early Sunday, and the hunt began on Tuesday. News helicopters filmed police and park rangers in pursuit.

Before his capture, Hal proved a cunning escape artist, leaping over an 8-foot (2.4-meter) fence, ducking under a bridge, and even scrambling across a skating rink.

Officials chased the coyote on foot and in a helicopter before finally slowing him down with a tranquilizer gun near the Belvedere Castle lookout, close to 79th Street and Central Park West.

Piles of feathers left in his wake suggested the hungry critter had been dining on the park's ducks and other birds.
"He's a very adventurous coyote to travel to midtown Manhattan," New York City Parks Commissioner Adrian Benepe told reporters.

The tawny-colored, 35-pound (16-kilogram) male will be taken to a wildlife center outside the city, officials said.

Urban Regular
Hal is the second coyote to be captured in Central Park. Another coyote was caught there in 1999.

Wildlife experts say, however, that they were not surprised to find a coyote in the heart of the largest city in the United States. They say coyotes have in some places become habituated to humans and human environments.

"There are coyotes in more places than people know," said Wendy Arjo, a wildlife biologist and coyote expert with the National Wildlife Research Center in Olympia, Washington.

"I guarantee that most people don't know that coyotes are walking down the streets of Chicago, for example, until their dog or cat goes missing and they wonder what's going on."

How Hal found his way into Central Park is not known.

Park officials believe the adventurous critter may have slipped into Manhattan from suburban Westchester County to the north or perhaps crossed the Hudson River via a bridge from New Jersey.

county
Dec. 26, 2008, 11:05 PM
In 2006 there were 7 cases of coyotes biting a human 5 were when the human cornered the coyote and left it little recourse. In contrast there were over 50,000 cases of domestic dogs biting a human.

MistyBlue
Dec. 26, 2008, 11:06 PM
Oh there are pretty much coyotes everywhere in this country. Seriously...pretty much everywhere including cities. Many very urban areas have video of them crossing streets and eating out of garabages from the speed trap cameras.
Coyotes can be extremely invisible when they want to be. Once you start seeing coyote, they've been around for a bit and aren't normally newcomers. They allow themselves to be seen once they've scoped your area out under cover for a few days first. They will get to know all of your normal routines and habits...including that of your pets and livestock and even your mailman...anything that moves. They'll also check out all possible food sources and all possible escape routes in case they need to leave fast...then they'll be comfy enough to be seen.
Some get comfy enough to get nosey too...I've been trailed often enough by nosey youngsters trotting just behind, ahead or off to the side of me to see what the heck I'm up to. They also are known to do the same with trail riders and hikers. Both fox and coyote seem to find riding in a ring or paddock fascinating...I've ridden and had one or the other sitting in plain site with thier head swiveling around to follow the horse's movements. Last place I boarded had a fox sit on the slope right outside the ring and watch lessons...looked hilarious since it tried to follow everyone's movements with it's head and looked like it was watching a tennis match, LOL!
Both fox and coyote find haying and plowing a lot of fun too...and it's "grocery" shopping time for them...they follow behind or trot ahead and pounce on whatever the machinery scares up. I've also had coyote follow me on the tractor when I'm plowing deep snow off the driveway...the lazy buggers prefer to trot on the plowed packed snow than leap through deep powder.
Coyote are excesssively sensitive to loud noises...they have hearing far more developed than dogs even. They hunt in winter by listening for the teeny noises of mice scurrying under deep snow...so loud sharp noises bother them...hurts their ears. Try an airhorn to repel them...they sell those for sports fans. Damned annoying things but they work on coyotes and fox pretty well. Normal reaction to them is a cringe and whince followed by hasty retreat.

Party Rose
Dec. 26, 2008, 11:54 PM
Thanks MistyBlue :yes:. As stated in the first post:
I need to protect Jasmine. She MUST be right near me now when she's outside. I go armed with a flashlight, pepper spray and an air horn. I also have a heavy metal pole just outside the front door.

poltroon
Dec. 27, 2008, 02:35 PM
I think there are probably more coyotes in urban southern california than in rural california. I never had a problem with them, but I am big and so is my horse. :)

PartyRose, the thing I would worry about if you have a hot fence in a suburban area is neighbor kids touching your fence. It's a challenge to build a fence that doesn't look like a prison but will keep the coyotes out and will not create problems with the neighbors. What about a block wall? It's a common California fence, and I haven't known coyotes to climb them, especially if there aren't trees etc that give them a leg up.

Party Rose
Dec. 27, 2008, 02:51 PM
You are so right. I've been looking at designs with a cement base about three feet tall, then poling going up and I'd add rolling bars at the top to make it even more difficult for them to scale. Regardless, the airhorn is in my hand regardless of the time of day or night.

I spoke to the mailman a few minutes ago and he said that he sees it all the time and it (there are always more) lives exactly where I thought they did. He said that it's HUGE, black and very shiny. I told him I thought it at first it was a German Sheppard and he said Yup that's it.

stuge
Dec. 27, 2008, 03:47 PM
I think this discussion is OK. It might not be going along the lines of what the OP wanted but what BB discussion does!

I think you got some good input regarding electric fencing but I also think that the point many people were also trying to say is that fencing wouldn't really help and you need to look at alternatives to keep them away, part of that being finding a way to live with them. Did you read the article from NY? It said that coyote jumped an 8-ft fence!

My thoughts are that a 40+ pound coyote is probably a cross and as someone has mentioned before, those cause bigger problems!

poltroon
Dec. 27, 2008, 03:53 PM
You are so right. I've been looking at designs with a cement base about three feet tall, then poling going up and I'd add rolling bars at the top to make it even more difficult for them to scale. Regardless, the airhorn is in my hand regardless of the time of day or night.

I spoke to the mailman a few minutes ago and he said that he sees it all the time and it (there are always more) lives exactly where I thought they did. He said that it's HUGE, black and very shiny. I told him I thought it at first it was a German Sheppard and he said Yup that's it.

That's probably a coydog or maybe even just a dog rather than a coyote. Not that it matters for your problem.

That sounds like a good fencing solution - the blocks on the bottom, then the metal vertical bars to 6' or so. They won't be able to scale that, it looks good, and you'll still be able to see through it.

Once you're at that 6' height, if you're still worried, a little discreet line of electric wouldn't cause problems with the neighbors, I wouldn't think, nor would it be all that visible. But I don't think they'd be scaling at that height. Your only worry would be a jumper.

What's on the other side of your fence? Neighbors or open space?