Making friends with a stray dog - New House PICS page 61! [Archive] - Page 5

scpezold

Jul. 27, 2009, 02:36 PM

Just got through reading all the posts and think it is wonderful what you are doing for this sweet girl. I do a good bit of rescue and transporting and based on what I have learned this girl would not stand a chance at AC.

I saw where ppl have mentioned getting on the ground to her level which is a great idea. With the ant and bug situation have you thought about trying a hammock set low? Or maybe take a float from the pool and lay on that. Heck if she comes to the pool edge lay on a float in the pool. Also do you have a small hill you can back up to? You could back a truck or SUV to it and lay in the bed of either one. Thought of this as we have a hill we use when we need to load something like a 4 wheeler in the truck bed. This way you are at her level. I hope the last idea made sense. Just trying to think outside the box.

Keep up the good work. Its sad but you are probably the only positive thing that has come into her life. I believe she will come around.

Edit: did not see the above post when I posted. Sorry.

MunchkinsMom

Jul. 28, 2009, 11:32 AM

After 7 months and 1000 posts, we're all still rooting for you and Angel! :)

WOW! I had sort of lost track of how long this saga has been! Thanks for the reminder.

Here is the latest. Apparently Angel has really become enamored of the neighbors pup, and found alternate routes to get into their property to play with him. Which is good/bad. Good because she is also getting closer to my neighbors, she actually sniffed the hand of the male neighbor, and followed him and the pup for about 1/8th of a mile on their morning walk. Bad because my neighbor his having enough issues with training the pup, and Angel's distractions are not helping. And my neighbor is rather regimented, so when things don't go according to his mental plan, it annoys him to no end.

I got all this from my neighbor this morning, she came over to give me an update, and to run an idea past me. She talked with our vet (who is wonderful), and she agreed that if we can get Angel contained into a stall, that she and her male assistant will personally come out with the rope/stick thing, get her caught, and at the very least, give her all her shots. My barn will not work for this, even if I could put an extension on the stall door to the floor, I have gaps between the walls and the floor (dirt floors also, sand/clay mix, easy to dig) and she could most likely tunnel her way out before the vet could get here.

My neighbor will also see if perhaps they can tranq her and take her to the clinic to be spayed also. I'll let you know if the vet agrees to that, I guess it will depend on if there are any tranqs that don't require IV, and depends on how Angel reacts in captivity. In other words, will she be agressive (fear biting), or will she be totally submissive, so hard to say.

My neighbor of course is also worried about health issues for her dog, even though he has had all his shots, I guess there is a chance he could get something from her. I told my neighbor that I think she is pretty healthy, I have seen dogs with distemper and parvo, and she shows no signs of either. Most likely because she rarely leaves the neighborhood and has little contact with other dogs that we know of.

So I told the neighbor that if she can use her pup to entice Angel into one of her stalls, and needs help getting her pup out and keeping Angel in, to call me and I will be there in a flash to help. We also have to do it on a day where the male assistant is on duty (Wed - Fri) and work around the neighbor's schedule. I will keep everyone up to date.

It sounds like the pup might just be the key element here in moving forward towards Angel's domestication. And even if she ends up living with the neighbor, that is fine with me, although we already know that since she is so adept at getting in and out of their property, keeping her in one place may be impossible, but at least if we get her chipped, collared and tagged it will help.

Neither of us like the idea of letting a dog roam, and I suppose one option woud be for me to try to get her into my fenced yard, but I am picturing her tunneling to get out, and in doing so, my other dogs following out, and that would not be good. I guess we will cross that bridge if and when we get to it.

Oh, my neighbor said she tried to get pictures of them, but of course they are having too much fun, and all she gets is blurry fur shots.

I feel bad that Angel is disrupting the training schedule for my neighbors, but I don't know what I can do about it. I suppose I could tell the neighbor to be stern with her and tell her to "go home" and see if that would work. I did say that if the neighbors end up adopting her as their own, that they might be able to do dual training, I know when I was training my pups, the "monkey see monkey do" really helped with the progress, they like to imitate other dogs behavior.

Sorry this is so long. Once again I am torn between being happy that Angel has a friend, and feeling badly that it is causing angst for my neighbors, and worry over once again trying to capture her.

MunchkinsMom

Jul. 28, 2009, 11:37 AM

Maybe she could lie on a raft in the wading pool! lol

Now, I know you meant it as a joke, but. . . it has some merit. Being in the pool might be refreshing on a hot day, and it would keep me protected from the creeping, crawling biting things. Of couse I would have to do it when the horses are in their stalls, I am picturing my youngest gelding (who is by far the nosiest horse on the planet), checking me out, and then splashing me with water just for fun. And of couse since he likes to chase Angel away from the barn, she would not come near if he was out there.

MHM

Jul. 28, 2009, 01:40 PM

Wow.

I just have to say how impressed I am by the concerted efforts of you and your neighbors and your vet to help Angel. I hope everything works out smoothly for you and for her. :)

MunchkinsMom

Jul. 28, 2009, 01:55 PM

Wow.

I just have to say how impressed I am by the concerted efforts of you and your neighbors and your vet to help Angel. I hope everything works out smoothly for you and for her. :)

Thanks, it has been a group effort, with my closest neighbor and I being the key players in the saga, since Angel opted to hang out on our properties the most often. I do have good neighbors, and everyone talks to Angel when they see her out and about, or when she is laying in my pasture and they are going by. It's really nice to live in an area where we all love our animals, and look out for each other, and keep an eye on our neighbors animals for any signs of problems.

And I am doubly blessed by living close to a wonderful caring small animal vet.

lcw579

Jul. 28, 2009, 02:49 PM

MM, I think you need to get yourself a puppy! ;) Yes, I know you don't need another dog but I don't think we could stand it if Angel ended up living with your neighbor after all you've been through! :lol: And really, could you? Foster a puppy if you have to. Just do something so she is playing in your yard with a puppy while she makes that final leap of faith.

I can't believe I am sitting in my living room all jealous on your behalf about Angel spending time with another family. I need to get a life! :lol:

Reds-n-Greys

Jul. 28, 2009, 03:05 PM

OH MM, I've been away from CoTH for a while, but you were my first stop! She looks so happy in those new shots - amazing transformation, so much more relaxed. Keep up the good work!
oh, and put me on the list for a copy of the book!

FalseImpression

Jul. 28, 2009, 04:14 PM

I can't believe I am sitting in my living room all jealous on your behalf about Angel spending time with another family. I need to get a life! :lol:

You are not the only one.... lol... not fair!!!
WE.WANT.ANGEL.WITH.MM!!

But you know, a pup will grow and maybe she will lose interest once he is bigger than she is... keeping fingers crossed that there is no set back if she is cornered...

MunchkinsMom

Jul. 28, 2009, 05:41 PM

You are not the only one.... lol... not fair!!!
WE.WANT.ANGEL.WITH.MM!!

But you know, a pup will grow and maybe she will lose interest once he is bigger than she is... keeping fingers crossed that there is no set back if she is cornered...

Well, let me tell you all a little secret. We have deed restrictions here in my little equine neighborhood, we are only allowed to have 4 domestic animals, and one horse or cattle per acre. I already have 4 house dogs, so I am technically breaking the bylaws by having Angel also. Luckily I am on the BOD for the association, and because Angel really is still considered to be a stray, I could play that card if push came to shove.

So, if "technically" Angel ends up "belonging" to my neighbor, that is okay. I have a feeling she will never be the type of dog that we can keep contained in one place anyway, so she will most likely always be the neighborhood dog, and most likely spend most of her time hanging out at my farm anyway.

So, never fear, Angel will aways be "my" dog, even if she technically belongs to someone else.

Or maybe Fate has her hand in here somewhere, that Angel is waiting until my oldest dog goes over the bridge, and then she can become one of the house pack.

SevenDogs

Jul. 28, 2009, 05:51 PM

MunchkinsMom

Jul. 28, 2009, 08:35 PM

Angel thinks she is YOUR dog, even if she goes over to play with her new friend. She doesn't understand (or care about) property lines, etc. She is just interested in hanging out with her new puppy friend. I think her ability to "branch out" and sniff your neighbor is a great sign that her confidence is building. I predict she will be back in your barn for supper! :yes:

Oh, she was! More steak for treats for her. What was funny was she was not under the trailer or in her usual spots, so I whistled for her, and she magically appeared in the field. I called her, she came running, at some steak from my fingers, I managed to get a few finger swipes on her nose and chin (progress), and suddenly she started to slink away. . . well . . that was thanks to my sneaky cutting horse, who was tip-toeing up behind me to see what I was up to. Yes, a barefoot horse in the sand can sneak up on you.

So, I had to stop feeding her, go but the horses in their stalls with the doors closed, and then Angel came into the barn. Every night she shows just a little less hesitation when I call her into the barn.

What is interesting is that I seem to miss most of the interactions with the neighbors pup and Angel, I guess we are on different schedules this week. Or Angel has my schedule hard-wired, and is always in my field when I get there.

MunchkinsMom

Jul. 29, 2009, 10:40 AM

I am so excited, nervous, and happy all in one emotional package this morning. This might be a long post, but I had to write it all down, and share this major milestone in the Angel saga.

My neighbor called at 7:20 AM to tell me that they had both dogs contained in a stall in their barn. So I quickly got my act together, rush fed and turned out the horses and went over to their barn.

When I got there, Angel was in with Zack, and she didn't seem stressed about her captivity, probably because Zack was in there. So I slipped into the stall, and she actually sniffed and licked my leg, while I was also being mauled on the other side by Zack. Zack was tied up in the stall (poor guy was bait this morning), so we got him untied and out of the stall, keeping Angel inside. I stayed in the stall with her, and for the very first time, was able to pet every square inch of her, starting with a nice gently butt scratch. She was submissive about it, and seemed to sort of like it, and ate a few bits of chicken from my fingers, but only if my neighbors were out of sight.

At the same time my neighbors had to also deal with their carpet installer, so I had lots of time to spend with Angel, and I did manage to get a collar on her (she looks good in purple - the color of the one spare dog collar I had handy). Angel also allowed my neighbor to finally pet her (I'm surprised we were not both in tear at that point), and we both just stayed in the stall with her until the vet arrived, just chatting while Angel lay at our feet, and we occasionally would just bend down to pet her some more. She did not get aggravated about the collar either.

About 30 minutes later, the vet and her wonderful assistant came, and because she was being so good and submissive and showing no signs of aggression whatsover, the gave me one of their collar/leash things to put on her, and then the assistant came into the stall with us, and we gently restrained her so that the vet could administer the IM tranq, which took effect quickly.

We put her in the big dog crate, got her into the back of my neighbors SUV, and we both drove to the vet's office. I helped the assistant carry the crate into the back room, and everyone in the office was so excited about the fact that we had finally succeeded.

So, the plan is to get her spayed (thank heavens, she was due to come into heat again in about 3 weeks), get all her shots and tests, and she might have to stay in the clinic for the "bed rest" post surgery, and then we will bring her back home.

I did speak with my neighbors about how to handle things in the future, I know the husband is frustrated about how playtime is interfering with his training, I told him that in the future, to be stern with Angel and to tell her to "go home". He said he did do that last night and it worked, so that might be what he has to do.

I just pray that we have not set her up for failure, and that she will be okay and stay with us when she comes home. I think one positive note is that the "trauma" occured at the neighbors barn and not mine, so hopefully she will still think of my farm as a safe place to be. And I think her affection for Zack may help her to overcome her fears.

We decided to go ahead and do all this now, because I doubt Angel will ever allow herself to be trapped in a stall like that again in the near future, so best to get it all done while we had her captured. It gives us both peace of mind knowing that puppies will not be an issue that we will have to deal with.

The vet and the assistant both said she seems like a very nice dog, and has a submissive temperment, although she was quite frightened after I put the clinic collar/lead on her - she was shaking a little bit, I felt so bad, but this is for the best.

I promised her that no one from either family would ever, ever hurt her, and that we love her, and are doing this because it is what needs to be done.

I got quite the greeting from the house dogs when I got home, I had all 4 with their noses glued to me, sniffing because of course I smell like Angel and Zack.

I have to say this. For a semi-feral, outdoor living dog, she was quite clean. Must be all those showers she takes in the sprinklers. She did like having her ears rubbed, and her chest scratched. And taking a tip from watching hours of the Dog Whisperer, I would gently take her tail and make it stand up, which would also help her to stop cowering as I was petting/scratching her.

I can hardly contain myself, and I'm not sure the reality of what has happened today has truely sunk in. I do hope this is a big step towards her trust.

The vet did say that it might be good for her to stay at the clinic/kennel for a few days, with all the people and activity in there all day long, it might help her to acclimate.

Please everyone (and you don't need to post them) send some jingles and positive thoughts that this is all good! And my apologies that we didn't get any pictures of us petting her, there was just too much else to think about.

Debbie

Jul. 29, 2009, 10:52 AM

MM, what terrific news!! Jingles that she embraces the domestic life from now on, but glad she will be spayed and vacinated to ensure her health. I think she will come out of this fine. Her body language in the latest pictures was so different and she's clearly ready to accept and trust.

MHM

Jul. 29, 2009, 10:54 AM

WOW!!!

That's a very full morning! I'm so glad everything went so smoothly. Maybe by the time she spends a few days being handled at the vet clinic, she'll come home ready to be a tame dog. :)

Congrats on all your efforts!

jetsmom

Jul. 29, 2009, 10:54 AM

OMG!!!! How exciting!!!

I don't think she is feral, but just been on her own for a while. She sounds like she is acting like Rusty did, when I finally caught him and put a leash on him.

I'd try to leave her at the vet's til there is no chance of infection from the surgery. It would be awful if the surgical site got infected after you had her home and you couldn't catch her to treat it.

Will you be able to visit her daily at the vet's? That will help her bond, and accept you patting her.

Re your neighbor training his puppy and Angel being a distraction... I've always been told that having distractions around when training is good for the dog. It teaches them to focus on you no matter what is going on. If your neighbor uses "high value" treats, the puppy will focus on him. Maybe google "dog training with distractions", and print out the pages for him. It really is beneficial to his training.

MrWinston

Jul. 29, 2009, 11:01 AM

I've been following this thread for a long time now. This is so exciting! I'm so glad you were able to finally capture her. It had to happen sooner or later, at least it's before you had to worry about her getting bred. Please keep us posted about how she does after she gets home. I would be so happy to hear that she made a breakthrough due to this "intervention."

harveyhorses

Jul. 29, 2009, 11:03 AM

WOW!! That is so great, hope you don't mind if I sniffle just a little, happy sniffs, you have worked so very hard and been so paitient.
Happy spay day!! (amost like a spa day)

MHM

Jul. 29, 2009, 11:05 AM

Happy spay day!! (amost like a spa day)

I like that one- I'll have to remember that! :lol:

MunchkinsMom

Jul. 29, 2009, 11:06 AM

Thanks. Jetsmom, thanks for the reminder about visits, and for the tips on dog training. I do know that the neighbor has enrolled the dog in puppy training classes, and is excited about that, I just hope he (the owner) can make it work.

I think it is interesting, since I made the most progress with Angel, they do actually take my advice to heart, and I do only offer it when they ask for it, or are expressing frustration.

I'll call the vets office to see about visits.

Also, I can bring her to my other neighbor's empty barn and use one of her stalls if necessary in case the recovery period is not going well at the clinic. She also has a concrete barn with sliding doors to the floor, so less chance of Angel escaping.

Oh, we did opt for the pricier laser spay, which is a smaller incision, and quicker recovery, less chance of infection route.

starrysky

Jul. 29, 2009, 11:07 AM

This is GREAT NEWS!! No matter how she reacts, you did the right thing by her, and now you won't have to worry about her having puppies, and she'll get all of her shots. YAY!

I think it's a good sign that she was submissive and calm. She trusts you, and I have to believe that she will trust you again once she gets home from the vet.

This is just such great news. I check this thread at least 3 times a week, and this is a wonderful development!:D

3horsemom

Jul. 29, 2009, 11:09 AM

congratulations. angel will be in my prayers.

MunchkinsMom

Jul. 29, 2009, 11:09 AM

WOW!! That is so great, hope you don't mind if I sniffle just a little, happy sniffs, you have worked so very hard and been so paitient.
Happy spay day!! (amost like a spa day)

Aww, your post actually caused me to mist up a bit too, I've been to excited to actually get teary-eyed over this.

And I love the "happy spay day", too cute!

bludejavu

Jul. 29, 2009, 11:11 AM

Huge congratulations MM on getting your hands on her like you have. Your neighbor is to be commended too - he sounds like a great neighbor. At least you wont have to worry about puppies any longer and she will be legally vaccinated.

MHM

Jul. 29, 2009, 11:13 AM

Laser spay??

I guess I haven't had a dog spayed lately- I hadn't heard about that!

I can't help but think of the scenes in the old James Bond movies, with the laser about to slice Bond in half. :lol:

RainyDayRide

Jul. 29, 2009, 11:17 AM

Super news! Yeah for your neighbors and your responsive vets.

May her spay day and recovery go smoothly, and may she be back home soon licking chicken off your fingers.

(I agree that it worked out well to have the entrapment occur at your neighbor's rather than at your place. Your place should continue to be her "safe haven.")

suze

Jul. 29, 2009, 11:17 AM

:D:D:D YAY!!!! I read this thread with breakfast (AnnaCrew's with lunch) & every day I've kept hoping for this update!

SevenDogs

Jul. 29, 2009, 11:19 AM

Blacklabs

Jul. 29, 2009, 11:23 AM

Great news!!! I have tears in my tears, so wonderful to hear. I can't imagine the joy to be able to touch her all over.:D

Jingling for you Angel.Looking so forward to updates.

MunchkinsMom

Jul. 29, 2009, 11:27 AM

It has been a huge day! While I know the vet visit/spaying is huge news, for me the fact that you were finally able to pet her is the biggest news of all! Congratulations and sending warmth and good thoughts for Angel (and you!) this morning!

P.S. Once Angel recovers, perhaps scheduled playtimes for Angel and the puppy will appease grumpy.... ooops... serious husband next door and let Angel's progress continue. ;)

Thanks, I think once Angel comes home, we will let her still live the way she was, and since she decides when to go visit the neighbors (although she might be a bit reluctant for a while after today), it will be up to the husband to work on training throught the distractions, and to send Angel "home" if need be. It can be a training exercise for her too. The wife agrees that the playtime is helpful to Zack, and I think that if they allow the dogs to romp first, and then get down to training, that Zack may be more receptive to training. For the few minutes that I was in the stall getting him untied from the twisted lunge line, he is pretty obedient (he was fine with come/sit for me). Might be because I have a more calm/balance energy, and I was not frustrated with him.

(and I am laughing about the "grumpy" part, I tend to use the term "rigid" when describing him - nice folks, but set in their ways sometimes).

The petting was the most wonderful thing for me, I kept telling her how good she was, and how long we had waited to be able to do it.

FalseImpression

Jul. 29, 2009, 11:29 AM

Congratulations! It seems that the entrapment was not too traumatic for Angel and that she will recover from that! Great that you could pet her all over. I hope you can visit her at the vet's. It would help her tremendously and she would not feel abandoned..
I hope she comes back and does her happy dance for you very soon again!

SevenDogs

Jul. 29, 2009, 11:35 AM

(and I am laughing about the "grumpy" part, I tend to use the term "rigid" when describing him - nice folks, but set in their ways sometimes).

It is so funny too, because "rigid" never works very well with animals! Consistent, even firm, but rigid.... not so much.

Glad Angel will still get to visit over there.

Buffyblue

Jul. 29, 2009, 12:07 PM

WOW! Great news! She's going to be the best dog ever! Happy Spay Day, Angel and Mom!

MHM

Jul. 29, 2009, 12:32 PM

BTW, have you told the vet about this thread, with more than 56,000 views so far? And that we're all eagerly awaiting an update on Angel's surgery?

No pressure, though! :winkgrin:

lcw579

Jul. 29, 2009, 12:33 PM

Yay! Such exciting news! I think I'm also more excited about the fact you got to pet her all over than that she is finally getting spayed.

I hope you can visit her at the vet's - I think that will help in the long run.

I'm so happy for both of you!

Proud To Be Spotted

Jul. 29, 2009, 12:34 PM

Congratulations. It has been a long road, but the end is in site. Angel knows she is safe with you. Jingles for a safe surgery and recovery.

SOTB

Jul. 29, 2009, 12:36 PM

This is great news!!!! Look forward to hearing how she's doing :winkgrin:

MunchkinsMom

Jul. 29, 2009, 12:42 PM

BTW, have you told the vet about this thread, with more than 56,000 views so far? And that we're all eagerly awaiting an update on Angel's surgery?

No pressure, though! :winkgrin:

I did tell her that we had over 1000 posts in the past 7 months and that Angel has a worldwide following now. They take digital pics at the office, and said they can email me a copy when they take her picture (the didn't want to take a photo of her all drugged up this morning) and I can post it for you all to see.

Have I mentioned that I love my vet and their entire staff?

I have to go give the horses lunch, it is going to be strange to me to not look for Angel. I keep looking out the window, forgetting that she is not home right now.

MunchkinsMom

Jul. 29, 2009, 12:45 PM

I've been sitting her reflecting on the past events in this saga, and realized that if we had managed to confine her before she had come this far to trust us, that the outcome would not have been as good as it was today.

Fate works in mysterious ways.

bdj

Jul. 29, 2009, 01:16 PM

GOOD WORK, MM!
You've done right by this girl for so long, and I can't even imagine how good it felt to be able to put your hands on Angel and give her some much-anticipated scritches and pats!

This has totally made my day!
Looking forward to seeing the pictures of Angel at the vet's office (and what great folks they are too!) with her "summer 'do" (that's what I called it last year when I got my littlest girl spayed and she came home with a naked belly).

jetsmom

Jul. 29, 2009, 01:18 PM

MunchkinsMom

Jul. 29, 2009, 01:32 PM

Can you bring Angel a T shirt that you have been wearing, and one of her toys to have while she is at the vets? The smell of you on the T shirt will be familiar, and may help calm her, as well as the toy, comforting her.

I'm on hold with the vet's office right now to run that idea past them. She has been spayed, and is recovering fine, and we are getting her microchipped since she will be a lose dog for a while yet, and we would like to get her back in the very remote chance that someone else were to capture her.

Just got off the phone, she is still sedated at the moment, but doing well, and they said best bet to visit would be 4 PM today, and yes, I can bring a shirt in for her. Good thing I didn't do laundry yet.

It was weird to not see her at lunchtime.

Zu Zu

Jul. 29, 2009, 01:45 PM

HOW TERRIFIC !!!!:eek:!!!!! What a grand morning for you and Angel!!! :cool: :cool:Only gets better from here!!. CONGRATULATIONS !!!!!!!!!!! Your news has made my day !!! Good -Luck with surgery and shots and a GREAT HOMECOMING !!! This is the BEST THREAD EVER!!!!:yes:

cheval convert

Jul. 29, 2009, 02:19 PM

Please excuse my teary eyes as I say YAY!!!!!!!!! Good Job, Well done, Way to Go! (I'm done now.)

Nes

Jul. 29, 2009, 02:19 PM

I did tell her that we had over 1000 posts in the past 7 months and that Angel has a worldwide following now. They take digital pics at the office, and said they can email me a copy when they take her picture ...

So when is the book coming out?

suze

Jul. 29, 2009, 02:24 PM

Can you bring Angel a T shirt that you have been wearing, and one of her toys to have while she is at the vets? The smell of you on the T shirt will be familiar, and may help calm her, as well as the toy, comforting her.

That's a great idea. Maybe check to see if they'll let you take the puppy for a visit? (if ok with the neighbors, of course) Every time we had to have someone stay all night we've been encouraged to bring in our other dog for a visit.

When we took our pound cat to the vet for his first checkup, he was a nervous wreck. When we got home he shot under the bed & we didn't see him for the rest of the day. The next time he went to the vet he was much better, but still nervous. The third time he was relaxed enough to purr & rub his head all over the vet. We figure that since he'd been a stray, being stuck in a carrier & taken to the pound was not exactly a great experience. He's gotten more relaxed because he's figured out he'll always come home. We also try to stop in at the vet's office with the dogs periodically to just say hi to everyone and let them have a few cookies.

MunchkinsMom

Jul. 29, 2009, 02:28 PM

So when is the book coming out?

That made me chuckle. It might take some time unless I can wrangle a few weeks off from work to work on it. Guess I better start doing my research on how to publish a book! I also need to see how the next few weeks play out, so that I can include that as the "happy ending", or "happy beginning" to the next edition of Angels life. I guess after this, she won't be a stray dog any more!

I'm so keyed up I am having trouble concentrating on my real work, that I must get done ASAP.

MHM

Jul. 29, 2009, 02:52 PM

I'm so keyed up I am having trouble concentrating on my real work, that I must get done ASAP.

Pfffft! You can do real work any day! This is a red letter Angel day!

(That was helpful, wasn't it? ;) )

fivehorses

Jul. 29, 2009, 03:09 PM

This is super fantastic.
Now, for some suggestions in my glee for you, for Angel.

Seize the moment.
She will be confined, right? It seems while she was confined in the stall, she allowed you and the neighbor to pet her.
So, while she is confined, pet her, give her a treat to get the association going.

I also would take her for walks on a leash if you can in the confines of the vets office. Do everything you can to show her that being touched is ok.

I guess I am thinking when she is free, she doesn't want to be touched, but when she was in the stall she was ok with it. That's my take, so I wanted to share it.

I also don't want to diminish one bit all the work, energy, knowledge you have done up to this point. You are Angel's angel, and I am rooting she comes live with you.

The heck with the HOA...what 5th dog?

This is great news. Good going MM!

SevenDogs

Jul. 29, 2009, 03:20 PM

MunchkinsMom

Jul. 29, 2009, 03:44 PM

Thanks. I mean that to each and every one of you that has stuck with this story, and your encouragement and suggestions were a big factor in helping my instincts and tactics.

As to the petting today, I can honestly say that she did not blissfully enjoy it, it was more like she was submitting to the experience, and some spots she would actually flinch, like behind her legs on her chest, and when I would pet her head, she would cower. I agree that getting in as much contact as I can is key, because you are most likely right, she might evade us after she comes home and is set free. Oh, I did offer her some chicken bits during the petting this morning, she would take them when we were alone in the stall, but would not if anyone else was there looking or in the stall with us. I really did spend the better part of 90 minutes petting her on and off until the vet came.

For a brief moment this afternoon, I considered breaking the bank and getting a dog kennel, but I would have to reinforce the bottom, or she will tunnel out, she is an accomplished digger. And I feel bad enough about today's events without adding insult to injury by bringing her home and then putting her back in confinement.

Geeze, I am so accustomed to looking for her out the window, a bird flew by in the field, and I had to look up to see if is was her running by. I'm going to go visit her in a few minutes, will let you all know how she is when I get back.

pony89

Jul. 29, 2009, 04:39 PM

monstrpony

Jul. 29, 2009, 04:43 PM

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Haven't posted here much, but once upon a time I, too, had an Angel who couldn't stand to be confined. Mine didn't mind being petted and loved coming in the house, but couldn't stand the dog lot. Anyhow, I've kept an eye on your Angel's story, and am SOOOO happy that she's getting her medical care and hope it is a breakthrough for you both!!

kdow

Jul. 29, 2009, 05:38 PM

I would be tempted to bring her in the house and get her well and truly tamed before you let her back out. I know it would be complicated with your other dogs, but if there is any way to keep her at least loosely confined until she learns to enjoy/trust being handled, that would be perfect. Even if you could keep her in a large crate/room in your house or your neighbor's stall for a few weeks and take her out on the leash for nice long walks, she could learn that the leash is a good thing. If she didn't have such a large territory, you could let her drag a leash outside, but I'd be afraid she'd get hung up. You could let her drag one in the house while supervised, though, and it might really speed along this last part of the domestication process. She might not let herself be trapped again.

If you opt for this, I would get a LONG training leash (15 ft+ ) or use a lunge line, rather than a standard 6ft leash. That way, there's room to let her get away a bit if she doesn't want to be so close but at the same time you still have some control - basically you can get out of her face without letting go completely. :) (And long leashes can always be coiled up to be used as a shorter leash if she does well and you want her to be closer.)

I mean, even if she's WAY out at the other end of the 20ft leash, if she's walking WITH you or staying within that distance and not pulling to escape, that's a lot of progress. :)

(Not one of those stupid flexi-leads, though. Just a plain old web training lead. If for no other reason than they don't do scary things if you drop the end and the dog takes off - it might get caught up, but it doesn't bounce around and potentially smack into the dog painfully the way the big plastic handle of a flexi-lead might.)

MunchkinsMom

Jul. 29, 2009, 06:33 PM

I guess I have a few days to sort this all out, and listen to my gut instincts and get some feedback on how she is on a leash with the vet techs that will be walking her.

My main concern is how well she would interact with the house dogs and vice-versa, I don't want any of the dogs to be hurt.

I went to visit her, and it warmed my heart to see that the male assistant that came to help tranq her this morning was sitting on the floor of her kennel petting her. He said it should be good for her to get used to physical attention.

I left her with my t-shirt, and about 30 minutes later, the receptionist emailed me some pictures of Angel, and she was laying with her nose on the t-shirt. It about broke my heart.

I did post the pictures to my album, I left the 5 pictures at the top for your viewing pleasure.

http://www.PictureTrail.com/gid22112544

She is in excellent hands, when they put the dogs in the recovery kennels, they line the walls with bed pillows, and the assistant told me that she was curled up on one of them when he went in to check on her. Guess I need to figure out a way to set up a dog bed for her in the tack room, so that she can't drag it out into the field and chew it to shreds.

Also the vet techs told me that the clinic mascot, a small lhasa type dog with three legs, was the same as Angel when she first came in, terrified of everything, and she had to have her leg amputated due to the abuse/neglect she had endured before coming to the clinic, and now she follows the staff everywhere.

I really miss her already!

Jaegermonster

Jul. 29, 2009, 06:35 PM

I haven't been on the board much lately so had to catch up, but this is all wonderful news.
I also like the idea of keeping her in the house for awhile when you bring her home to get her more tame and socialized.
but whatever the outcome, at least she will be vaccinated and there will be no more homeless pets. :)

SevenDogs

Jul. 29, 2009, 06:37 PM

Tiki

Jul. 29, 2009, 06:41 PM

Congratulations MM. She is absolutely beautiful and a true angel. You might want to consider a harness for her at first along with the lunge line. The absolute last thing you want to happen in this very sensitive stage right now is for her to slip her collar or hurt her neck. Dogs have pretty strong necks, but many of them are incredible escape artists from a collar.

MHM

Jul. 29, 2009, 06:47 PM

Waaaah! The picture at the clinic with the T-shirt is just too much! :sadsmile:

jetsmom

Jul. 29, 2009, 07:00 PM

Can you get her a collar with an ID tag w/your address and ph # in case she were to be picked up by someone once she gets home? I know that if I see a stray w/a collar and tag I will do everything in my power to catch them, and return to their owner. If I am running late, or it is after hrs for the rescues here, and see a stray w/no collar, it's 50/50 whether I will pick them up. I don't have a way to separate them from my dogs overnight, so am hesitant to pick up one that may not be claimed.

Many people will not try to get a stray checked for a chip. A collar and tag helps. (I'm thinking of when you get her back. Especially if she were to get hit by a car and injured).

The clinic pics are great!

AiryFairy

Jul. 29, 2009, 07:07 PM

For what she's been through, she looks remarkably un-stressed. I think you may have just gotten over a huge hurdle, I think she would have waited a lot longer for this kind of contact but having forced the issue, it seems like she's remembering human contact from way back, and it's not so bad. Hope her recovery goes well!

MHM

Jul. 29, 2009, 07:11 PM

ITA about the collar with a tag and phone number, though I'm sure you're already planning to do that.

In my experience, the easier you make it for people to do the right thing, the more likely they are to do it. ;)

Blacklabs

Jul. 29, 2009, 07:14 PM

sniff sniff, she is so pretty and does look calm. She stole my heart in those pictures. What a beautiful face.

Thanks so much for all that you have done.Tonight I will sleep better knowing she is safe, up to date on shots and been fixed.

danceronice

Jul. 29, 2009, 07:26 PM

I endorse the idea of a harness--our beagle likes to roam even on her lead and would get snagged, so we use a harness on her and it works great. I also think it might be a good idea not to let her roam right away when she comes home--I would be paranoid she'd decide to run for it, though having been trapped at the neighbors' and not your place might help with that.

This is the update we've been waiting for, for sure. When I saw the "MAJOR UPDATE" line I figured maybe you'd been able to pet her, but this is not just a big step. It's like having taken a wormhole to the next step. Talk about payoff--you have the patience of a saint.

harveyhorses

Jul. 29, 2009, 08:08 PM

Awww the pics with your t-shirt....
She does not look panicked, just a little dopey:winkgrin: I really do not think she is going to bolt after all the trouble she has taken to get MM trained right.

danceronice, I love your siggy....
this place sure can get weird, it just like a box of chocolates. :cool:

fivehorses

Jul. 29, 2009, 08:20 PM

great photos, and it does tug at your heart that she is keeping your tshirt close to her.

You have a couple of days to see how she does at the vets on a leash, etc.
Sometimes, the rebound can be dramatic, and let's hope so in angel's case. Meaning that she is being forced into 'control', being kept in a kennel, walked, etc. During this time, she hopefully will learn that this is all good.

I am not sure if I would want her in my house either, or in my enclosure if she could dig out, and let your others escape. In the house, could create some boundry issues for your dogs, and she doesn't need that right now.

I think your goal is to get her more domesticated, meaning, coming when called,(which she does), allowing herself to be petted and to walk on a leash. those things are being done now because they need to be, so let's hope it sinks in with her that it is ok.

With her hormones being terminated, her current confinement, I think you may really turn the corner with her during this time.

I am so excited for you. I just can't wait for the next chapter and where it takes Angel.

MunchkinsMom

Jul. 29, 2009, 08:26 PM

Thanks everyone, I am wracking my brain on how I could bring her into the house and not have her mauled by the 4 demon house dogs :D. My mother in law is in agreement, I just need to see if my husband is okay with it and ask him for input for ideas on how we might be able to do this and have everyone survive. We have an abundance of baby gates, crates, etc. so it might be doable. (P.S., the house dogs are not really demons, but I can just imagine how traumatic it would be for Angel to have the pack of all 4 of them converging on her at once).

I'll run to the feed store and get a tag for her (they do it while you wait). I used to have a collar with our phone number and the name of our departed beloved Abby embroidered on it, but I don't know where it is, and I don't know that I could bear for Angel to wear it.

I wonder how long I would have to keep her on "house arrest" before I could let her go back to being the barn dog if she wants to be? This is all new territory for me.

apcohrs

Jul. 29, 2009, 08:44 PM

WONDERFUL NEWS!!!!!!

MintHillFarm

Jul. 29, 2009, 08:49 PM

As long as you can take advantage of the time...The house arrest will help you I think in getting her to be even more tame...

It worked for my abused Rott/Lab that came to me years ago. Simon was aggressive which Angel seems not to be at all, so you are ahead of the game.

Simon learned eventually that the farm was his. He never left the property. I could drive out the driveway and he would be on the porch on his bed or in the garage on his bed. I had a doggie door put in and he knew the garage was his. I bought him a large dog mattress so it was way off the concrete and made a cubby for him; it was his space... He was never in love with being in the house and would humor me on occassion and come in for a bit when it was very cold. He did get over the worst of the aggression but there were certain things one could not do with him and everyone that met him was alerted!

Anyway, Angel sounds like she is really going to turn the corner for you; it has been an adventure for all of us to share and I thank you for that.

Indy

Jul. 29, 2009, 08:49 PM

Oh wow, oh wow, oh wow, wow, wow!!

I got the chills reading about your day. It sounds like she's in very good hands tonight and hopefully she'll be back in yours soon.

She's a special dog.

MHM

Jul. 29, 2009, 08:53 PM

I wonder how long I would have to keep her on "house arrest" before I could let her go back to being the barn dog if she wants to be? This is all new territory for me.

I think that would be very hard to predict. Maybe a couple of days? You'd probably just have to see how she reacts and play it by ear. That method has done wonders for you so far! :lol:

I think the baby gate idea could work. If you could allot one room or one part of the house as Angel's territory at first, they could still sniff each other through the gate, but retreat as needed while everybody adjusts.

Bless you and your family and neighbors for all your efforts! :cool:

MunchkinsMom

Jul. 29, 2009, 09:04 PM

Well, the fun just never ends. I just went out to take the fly masks off the horses, and laying in the grass next to my driveway was a cat - looks to be on the young side, not in bad shape, but thin, well, I suppose not thin if it is someones barn cat. Big Sigh!

I do recall that one of my other neighbors mentioned that she just brought home another kitten, I called her and left a message, hopefully it is hers.

It was friendly sort of, I could pet it, but it hissed at me. And then the dogs came hurtling across the front lawn, and the cat raced under the fence and last seen sitting in the corner of my pasture.

Just what I need, another stray animal to worry about.

Thanks again for the support and advice, I think I will play it by ear, and sleep on it a bit to see what I will do about Angel when she can come home.

3horsemom

Jul. 29, 2009, 09:05 PM

the pictures are just terrific. to me, angel looks more perplexed that anything else. it will be interesting to see how she reacts to you when you visit again. again, what a brilliant job you have done with angel. keep following your instincts.

MHM

Jul. 29, 2009, 09:16 PM

Well, the fun just never ends. I just went out to take the fly masks off the horses, and laying in the grass next to my driveway was a cat .

I'm sorry, but I burst out laughing when I read that!

You know the old saying: Nature abhors a vacuum.

Maybe you should post a sign on your front gate at dog/cat eye level: Angel will be back soon- No Vacancies!!! :lol:

FalseImpression

Jul. 29, 2009, 09:25 PM

You did not say how she reacted when she saw you... did she look happy to see you? did she react like she knew you? or was she still too dopey for anything? I love that a vet clinic takes the time to socialize the animals. They cannot just be confined in a cage and esp. not Angel.

Did they say when she could come home?
I am leaving tomorrow morning until Tuesday... sigh... but I am glad I saw this update today!!!

MunchkinsMom

Jul. 29, 2009, 09:49 PM

I'm sorry, but I burst out laughing when I read that!

You know the old saying: Nature abhors a vacuum.

Maybe you should post a sign on your front gate at dog/cat eye level: Angel will be back soon- No Vacancies!!! :lol:

No kidding, it is sort of funny in a sad way that the strays find their way to my farm on a regular basis. And of course this cat does not belong to my other neighbor, that kitten she just took in is going to be a house cat. I hope it is gone when I go back out later. I know if Angel were home, it would not be hanging out around here.

So, I'm also trying to figure out how long Angel needs to stay at the clinic, probably at least until Saturday noon when they close. And I suppose it all depends on how well she is healing.

In all my excitement I forgot to even ask about the stitches, hopefully they used the self disolving kind. But even if they did, if I need to seriously restrict her exercise and try to keep the incision clean, I might just have to find a way to get her into the house.

But then again. . . my horse had colic surgery last fall, now that is a monster incision, and we didn't do anything other than obviously put him on stall rest/hand walks only, but didn't do anything in the way of bandaging, and he healed up beautifully. I guess I better get my list of questions ready for my call to the vet tomorrow.

As to how she reacted when I went in to see her? Well, I can't say she was happy to see me, but then again, she was still pretty stoned, and of course being out of her element and not used to me sitting down at her level might have also added to her shyness. But she did let me pet her, and you saw the pictures of her with her head on my t-shirt. . . (which makes me sigh). At least there was no tail wagging or anything. Maybe if she is more alert tomorrow, it will be a different story.

jetsmom

Jul. 29, 2009, 10:27 PM

If you decide to keep her in your house for a few days (separated), you might consider walking her with your most quiet/submissive/friendly dog. That seems to really make them bond.

kdow

Jul. 29, 2009, 11:15 PM

As to how she reacted when I went in to see her? Well, I can't say she was happy to see me, but then again, she was still pretty stoned, and of course being out of her element and not used to me sitting down at her level might have also added to her shyness. But she did let me pet her, and you saw the pictures of her with her head on my t-shirt. . . (which makes me sigh). At least there was no tail wagging or anything. Maybe if she is more alert tomorrow, it will be a different story.

The stoned thing probably added a lot - My guy got a partial dose of sedative yesterday during his aborted vet visit (see other thread :) ) and even though he's normally SUPER friendly to everyone, he was pretty laid back. I'm his favorite person in the entire world, and I only got one half-hearted lick, and I don't remember much of a tail wag. :)

So I probably wouldn't take too much of her behavior now to be terribly meaningful. (Though it's probably good that they're taking advantage of her doped state to give her lots of contact. Hopefully that positive contact will sink in a bit.)

I wanted to add also - if it's possible, in ~6 months or so, I'd see if you can get someone to check and make sure her microchip is still in the right place, if she's likely to be coming and going. It's just that they can migrate, and with a stray with no collar, people don't always search very closely. So it's good to know if it's where it should be if you're relying on it to identify her.

lcw579

Jul. 29, 2009, 11:35 PM

Awww..... poor little bear (although she doesn't look too worse for wear and looks extremely well cared for!). She looks like the t-shirt is definitely bringing her comfort (good suggestion!).

Your instincts will tell you what is right when she comes home. Trust yourself and I have no doubt that you will do the best thing for her!

:yes::yes: I thought I had the nicest vet for my dogs - but yours may top mine. Love that the vet tech was taking time to pet her. Angel looked quite peaceful and her space very comfy. Really tugs at the heartstrings to see her head on your t-shirt.

I'm sorry, but I burst out laughing when I read that!

You know the old saying: Nature abhors a vacuum.

Maybe you should post a sign on your front gate at dog/cat eye level: Angel will be back soon- No Vacancies!!! :lol:

My thoughts exactly! :lol::lol:

MunchkinsMom

Jul. 30, 2009, 12:35 AM

I wanted to add also - if it's possible, in ~6 months or so, I'd see if you can get someone to check and make sure her microchip is still in the right place, if she's likely to be coming and going. It's just that they can migrate, and with a stray with no collar, people don't always search very closely. So it's good to know if it's where it should be if you're relying on it to identify her.

She will be wearing a collar and tag also, I did put a collar on her today, of course in the vet clinic they take them off while they are in the kennels so they don't get caught on anything, I don't think I will have any trouble getting it back on her when I go to pick her up.

The microchip was mostly for backup, in case she ever got in the hands of Animal Control, I do know that they scan all dogs for chips that are brought in.

It's funny how accustomed I have become to having her around the farm, and what a hole there is while she is not here.

I'll keep you all posted on how she is in the AM.

bumknees

Jul. 30, 2009, 07:07 AM

I didnt get a chance to read this yesterdy. Love the photos of her on your tee shirt.

My first thought when you said she was at the vets having her spay day and that they are keeping her for a few days was that when you go to bring her home you will be seen as her savior, her rescurer, what ever from the vets office and she will love/ trust you even more.

Im also thinking she may sulk a bit when brought home and perhaps be a tad timid but in her eyes you rescued her from the what im sure is a loud , busy etc vets office, where they stuck her with stuff and now her belly hurts kwim...

Blacklabs

Jul. 30, 2009, 07:32 AM

Good Luck today and please give Angel a hug from her fan club.

Do you have another tee shirt that Angel could wear if the vet would allow? Might make her feel better to have your scent close to her.You can tie the extra material in a knot on her back.

Buffyblue

Jul. 30, 2009, 07:38 AM

Great photos of Angel with your T-shirt! She has the sweetest face.

CB/TB

Jul. 30, 2009, 08:58 AM

what great news!!! Well worth the wait.Now you have a dog! Have lots of her favorite treats and food at hand when she is finally off of house arrest so she doesn't forget WHERE her meals are coming from- not that she'll hold a grudge. Maybe all of this will be just a sleepy haze to her and when she finally comes home she'll just continue on- but in a much more contented way. You did a good thing and you should be very proud of yourself. We know it took a lot of time , patience and FOOD - not to mention the next door puppy( who should get SOME kind of reward!) to finally make sure Angel was safe. I second trying to get her into the house for recuperation. Do you have a garage or could you get some fencing or wire panels to use on a stall??

Pitty Pat

Jul. 30, 2009, 09:21 AM

Tears of joy from California. I love this thread. I can't wait for the book. I am so happy for you and Angel.

witherbee

Jul. 30, 2009, 10:02 AM

I'm just catching up with this thread today and was so excited to see the news! Angel looks great and you did a super job with her.

If you do bring her in with your dogs, this is what I will do (based on my experience with integrating 5 cats and 3 dogs in my own home over the last 3 years):

1. lock all of your dogs away in a room or rooms (not just behind baby gates because they can jump those and you don't want them to be seen).

2. Let Angel roam the house and get used to the layout of it. Close doors to any rooms that you don't think would be safe for her if she gets "cornered" later. Walk her through if she is too shy to walk around herself. Do this until she seems comfortable and relaxed.

3. You may want to have a "safe room" for Angel (the garage or even a bathroom) and put a quilt or dog bed down for her in there. I'd probably put her in there after she is used to the house and just take her out periodically and repeat number 2 for the first day/night. Obviously, you will need to take her out to go to the bathroom. Feed her in her safe room.

3. The next day, repeat number 2 and then take your calmest dog out of the room ON LEASH. Take your time in waiting for Angle to come up to the dog. You mayh want to sit at your computer with the leashed dog and just ignore Angel and see if she will make an effort to come up to sniff the dog. Just be aware of what is going on in case your other dog gets startled or upset if Angel comes up from behind to sniff. If she doesn't come up after whatever time feels right for you, see if you can entice her to come forward with some food or whatever method works for you.

4. Once she does sniff the other dog and the other dog sniffs her, let the dog off leash and let them interact. IMO this is enough for day 2. Back in the safe room for the night or when you are not there to supervise.

5. Intorduce each dog this way to her - one at a time. If they seem super happy, go ahead and add back in the first dog that she got to know so that you now have 2 dogs together with her - it changes the pack dynamics, so you need to evaluate each time. You can move faster than a day for each dog as things progress - just use your gut feelings and the dogs body language to tell you when it's safe to introduce another dog.

That is tough to do with so many dogs in the house, but that is how I would approach it with such a shy dog.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

fivehorses

Jul. 30, 2009, 12:04 PM

MHM, that was funny. No vacancies, love it.

Poor kitty. I think for me the hardest part of living in the south is the number of throwaways. And the lack of neuter/spay. Just don't understand the mentality of some folks.

MM, don't you have a large yard that is fenced? What if you let the dogs all meet in there? Put Angel on a long leash so if she began to dig out, you could pull her back in. Of course, the first few times, the dogs would all be observed.

I like withbee's suggestion/guide to introductions. I just wonder if outdoors would be less terroritorial.
Also, I just realized, you will also have to be teaching angel house manners at the same time...poop and peeing is for outside.

Get some sleep, you have a lot ahead of you. But, once its over, you will look back and say it wasn't so bad or hard.
Keep the news coming.

CB/TB

Jul. 30, 2009, 01:01 PM

Introductions in th efenced area sounds good. Maybe like you'd introduce a horse into a new herd. Time spent with one calm /friendliest dog, maybe the most playful, since she played with the pup next door. Keep a check cord on her- not too long, but long enough to grab if need be. Maybe play ball or whatever the two of them can agree on, then after a day or two introduce one or two more to the mix. They need to work it out themselves so don't get too involved, just enough supervision to keep things safe. By the time she comes home she'll hopefully have gotten over the "trauma" of being handled /touched and confined and can begin her new life. She just couldn't bring herself to make the decision to cross the line, you had to make it, and now she knows life can be good.

MHM

Jul. 30, 2009, 01:04 PM

ptownevt

Jul. 30, 2009, 01:29 PM

Oh my goodness, I check this thread every day, but I guess I checked it early yesterday. Congratulations! I think you'll have to change the title on your picture album. I don't think she's a stray dog anymore. You have done such a wonderful thing. It restores some faith in human beings to be able to share this with you. Thank you so much for taking such good care of Angel; it's hard to tell which of you is the angel.
Pam

MunchkinsMom

Jul. 30, 2009, 01:32 PM

Well?? We can't last more than 12 hours without an update at this critical point in the saga! :winkgrin:

Witherbee, that sounds like quite a system you've got worked out there! You must have had lots of practice. :eek:

Sorry, stuck in meetings all morning! I called the vet today, and Angel is doing well, eating, pooping and peeing on leash with the vet techs, etc. The receptionist didn't say how her attitude was, I will go for a visit today (and bring some chicken) and see if she is happier to see me or not.

Witherbee's advice is spot on, and we know each other personally, so she is familiar with my house pack, and has seen Angel in person, and can testify to how timid she was in the past. Now I need to see how I can make her advice work with my setup.

The one advantage that I might have is that Angel and the house dogs have interacted with a fence between them for some time now, I hope that will help.

I spoke with my husband this AM, he has no strong feeling one way or the other (as to whether we try to make her more of a house dog vs let her live the way she was as a free spirit). He has small a point in that she is pretty happy with her life as is, and that perhaps this attempt at domestication is for my benefit. My opposing viewpoint is that dogs are pack/social animals, and that she might actually be happier if we could bring her into the pack here, give her an even stronger sense of belonging somewhere.

I know that personally I would feel better if I knew that she could come into the house comfortably to get out of the heat/cold/rain as needed. At of course that means I have to condition her to indoor life, and then sort of let her choose?

Who knew that this milestone would lead to more dilemmas?

MrWinston

Jul. 30, 2009, 01:45 PM

MunchkinsMom

Jul. 30, 2009, 02:02 PM

Angel would be better off as a house dog that came to the barn with you. Just for the sake of her safety. I think the "freedom thing" is overrated. As I said before, I hope this experience turns into a big turn around for her.

That is pretty much my gut reaction, even though she has managed to stay safe and healthy all this time, might have been guardian angels watching over her, and now it is my turn to be the guardian.

It will be nice to have a dog that can come to the barn, my other 4 are not horse-safe, and they do not seem to enjoy coming to the barn the few times that I did try.

So, when hubby gets home, I will talk to him about it again, he did say he is okay with whatever I decide to do. And of course if she truely hates being a house dog, then being an outside dog is an option. Hubby offered to build a dog house for her, or a dog bed type thing (platform with padded carpeting) to put in the tack room, that she could use.

Personally I am not wild about the dog house concept, since here in FL any structure becomes a home for bugs (they even invade bird houses).

MHM

Jul. 30, 2009, 02:07 PM

So, when hubby gets home, I will talk to him about it again, he did say he is okay with whatever I decide to do. And of course if she truely hates being a house dog, then being an outside dog is an option. Hubby offered to build a dog house for her.

Awww! Hubby sounds like a keeper. :)

MunchkinsMom

Jul. 30, 2009, 02:32 PM

Awww! Hubby sounds like a keeper. :)

Oh, he is! For me anyway. He is number 3 for me, the first too was-bands were definitely not! We've been married for 15 years.

He even conceded to living on my dream horse farm, to help me to realize a life long dream - well, the price I pay is living with his parents here, but that is not a big trial in the grand scheme of things.

RainyDayRide

Jul. 30, 2009, 04:02 PM

called the vet today, and Angel is doing well, eating, pooping and peeing on leash with the vet techs, etc.

gee, she's eating even tho' I imagine she's not being given the gourmet treats she gets at home - she must be feeling ok.

What sizes/breeds of dogs are your other four, MM?

MunchkinsMom

Jul. 30, 2009, 05:36 PM

gee, she's eating even tho' I imagine she's not being given the gourmet treats she gets at home - she must be feeling ok.

What sizes/breeds of dogs are your other four, MM?

I just got back from a visit with Angel. Oh, I can't wait to bring her home, even if it gives us other dilemmas to solve.

First, I spoke with the vet and the staff, who said she can come home either tomorrow or Saturday, whichever works best for my neighbor and I. Next I need to decide if she comes into the house or into the neighbors barn, since she still needs restricted exercise, and the vet feels that this is a good opportunity to continue to bond with Angel. My gut feeling is to bring her into the house here, with a crate and use the bathroom as "her" room. If that doesn't work out, then we can go with plan B and bring her to the neighbors barn.

They told me she has had no accidents in the kennel, she waits to be taken out. They said she is good on the leash going out, but they have to pick her up to bring her back in. It is breaking all our hearts at how frightened she is most of the time.

However, when I went back to the kennel area, she perked up her little ears and wagged her tail for me. When I went in the kennel with her, she did sniff me, and give me a little lick, but would not take the chicken from my hand. I sat down with her, and she went into submissive mode, head down, etc. I spent about 15 minutes petting and scratching her, and offered more chicken, but no dice, so I just put it in her food bowl.

I know we still have a long road ahead of us, and I am hoping that if I can bring her into the house, perhaps seeing the interaction with the house dogs will help..

My house dogs are: Candy, a 9 year old Rhody/Boxer cross, about 60 pounds, she was a pound puppy also, that my in-laws adopted when she was about 2 years old. Murphy, an 11 year old Brittany, and a saint of a dog if there ever was one. Jenna, an almost 2-year old Aussie/Golden Retriever cross (who looks like a dingo with stand up ears), and Cubby, who is Jenna's full sister, and looks like a blonde Aussie.

We do have a fairly balanced pack dynamic here in the house, no fighting other than some rough play occasionally, it sounds fierce, but it is all noise.

I have a dog door with access to the fenced in front yard, that is about 1/2 acre of land for them to play in. Good thing I am not big on landscaping, because my front yard will never make the cover of Home and Garden for sure.

The vet said that Angel is very healthy, no worms, no heartworm, and they only found one tick on her. Her temp is good, and they even trimmed her toenails.

The vet also said that there is not one aggressive bone in Angel's body, they have never had a dog in the clinic that was as submissive as she is. We all wish we knew what her background was, they all say that her reaction is like a dog that may have been hit a lot, or a dog that has never been handled at all.

The vet did use disoloving stitches, so we won't need to bring her back for that, but we will need to bring her back in for boosters on some of the shots, and the vet said that if we could capture her in the stall again, she would come out to the farm to do it.

This is what is making me lean towards trying the house thing first, because I bet any amount of money that Angel will not allow herself to be trapped in a stall again any time soon.

Of to call the neighbor.

LLDM

Jul. 30, 2009, 05:52 PM

I know it is a bit pre-mature, but what about an underground fence?

Our stray is a foxhound and she was miserable cooped up and tied up - but as a young hound she kept getting herself lost following scents). She LOVES the freedom the underground electric fence gives her and I don't have to worry about her running off (on a scent) and getting lost or HBC (hit by car) any more.

And, because she has the run of the 4 acres around the house she can be a barn dog AND is calm enough to be an inside dog too. The whole farm was too big (50+ acres) to do, but this is enough to her to feel free, really run herself tired and chase birds, bunnies and butterflies - et. al.

(Of course she's sleeping on our bed right now)

I think it was good that the issue with Angel was forced. I think that sometimes they need that push to go the last mile. I really think it will work out for the best. And I am SOOOO happy you got her micro-chipped too! Yeah for both of you. She will soon figure out that her worst fears have happened (she was "caught") and nothing awful happened. She will be so happy when she realizes that you have brought her home. And I have no doubt she thinks of you as home. :D Good Job!

SCFarm

suze

Jul. 30, 2009, 06:32 PM

So glad to hear she's doing so well! The pics of her with your shirt are Awww-inspiring. Such good news!

I vote for the house. You may not be able to trap her in a stall again to get her boosters. I sure wouldn't go the invisible fence route - don't those zap the dog when they try to cross? I can see her running right through it in blind panic. I think witherbee has the right idea with her advice.

MunchkinsMom

Jul. 30, 2009, 07:04 PM

Spoke with my neighbor and ran the plan past her. She is all for it as long as Angel and her pup can still play. She said that her puppy was staring at my barn today looking for his playmate. And even my young gelding was looking for her today.

We will take this day by day, and use Angel's responses as a barometer as to how well it is working. If she is totally miserable in the house, plan B will go into effect, and we will use the stall in the neighbors barn for the rest of her recovery period, and then let her go back to being the free spirit that she has been.

What I am hoping is that she can quickly learn that my house is a good place to be, and then when we do let her loose, that she will feel secure enough to come to the house with me in the future if she chooses.

This is a very hard decision for me, I have never had to deal with a free spirit dog before, I've always had spoiled house dogs, and it breaks my heart right now to see her so unhappy and confused, when she was so happy to be the "barn dog" who could come and go at her her leisure.

We are hoping that being spayed will help keep her from roaming too far, that seemed to be the time that she really went AWOL for a day or two, and luckily she was still in the neighborhood and didn't run into any trouble.

I did find this intersting article online on how to introduce dogs, and it goes along with Witherbee's advice, in a modified fashion, and it most likely will work best at my house:

http://www.wikihow.com/Introduce-a-New-Dog-to-Your-House-and-Other-Dogs

At least the part about crate introductions. I have done something similar in the past when I had to dog-sit for friends, we would have the newcomer behind a dog gate, and they could all sniff and wag through the gate for a day or two, and then when the house dogs lost interest in the new dog, let the new dog out.

Go Fish

Jul. 30, 2009, 07:26 PM

The vet also said that there is not one aggressive bone in Angel's body, they have never had a dog in the clinic that was as submissive as she is. We all wish we knew what her background was, they all say that her reaction is like a dog that may have been hit a lot, or a dog that has never been handled at all.

This is my gut reaction, too. I think Angel may be the offspring of a feral dog, herself. It explains alot.

I don't think you are totally off base to let her live the way she has been. I know our urge is to domesticate them to our idea of how dogs should live, but if she's never been socialized, it may be difficult for her. If she's safe, healthy and happy living at the barn and being a bit of a "free spirit," I don't think that's wrong. I'd be chewing my nails down over this decision and trying to do the right thing by her.

I'm thrilled that you got your hands on her and have ensured her health. Baby steps, baby steps!

Tiki

Jul. 30, 2009, 07:57 PM

I would be very, very leery of 'locking her away' in a bathroom where she can't see or really hear anything that is going on. To me, that would be an extreme example (to her) of solitary confinement. When you open the door she might panic and try to escape after being kept in (basically) a place of sensory deprivation. A large show crate, that is all bars, in the middle of a room would be a good way to introduce her to the other dogs. It should be large enough so that she feels she can 'get away' a little bit from them and it will be up to her to 'approach' them. She can stay in the crate while you and hubby watch TV at night and still be part of the family, rather than living in isolation, but no one can hurt her. As the dogs become accustomed to her, and her to them, you can let her out. Give her some toys while in there. You might find, when you let her out, that she will return on her own to the crate. Dogs ARE den creatures. Mine, when I let them in the house, will go into their crate, with the door open, to lie down and nap. It will become 'her' house, within your house.

MunchkinsMom

Jul. 30, 2009, 08:06 PM

Hubby just got home, and he doesn't like the crate idea either, so we are going to use gates, and have her spend time with me in my office and part of the hallway and bathroom that is next to my office. I'm really hoping that my house dogs react the same as they do when other dogs come to visit, and within a short time the visitor is just another pack member.

They have had to deal with small and large dogs that come to stay with us, and it is usually chaos for about 30 minutes, and then life goes back to normal. Even my neighbors pomeranian that comes to stay with us for weeks when they travel fits right in with the pack, and at her own home she is an only dog.

Of course all the visiting dogs have been domestic house dogs, and I have to remember that Angel is disadvataged in that aspect.

We do have a "show crate" that is big enough for her, and I might just bring that in as a fallback if necessary.

vineyridge

Jul. 30, 2009, 08:18 PM

Do you have a room that is large enough for an Exercise Pen to fit into? She could be open to everything going on around her, have her own bed and crate in it, and generally be fairly free to move around.

They are fairly cheap and are something dog people can use over and over anyway.

kdow

Jul. 30, 2009, 08:45 PM

Based on my experiences with my rescue, I think seeing you interacting with your dogs in the home environment might help her a lot in the long term. Pirate certainly seems to be picking things up from watching Foxy (who is extremely self-confident and well-adjusted about the world) even after he's been here a year. I don't think he'll ever be like her, but since we brought him home he's gone from basically hiding in my room with me all day to wandering around the house and settling in wherever the action is, and feeling confident in napping by the front door so he can get in on any trips in the car. (He LOVES car rides.)

In addition just recently he's started playing with a toy occasionally - before it seemed like he had no idea what they even were, but now he has a stuffed toy that always has to be in his bed and we just today bought him his own ball because he's been making efforts to catch Foxy's. We haven't been trying to 'train' him with toys at all, so the only way he could've picked things up is from watching us play with Foxy.

Tiki

Jul. 30, 2009, 08:45 PM

Just PLEASE don't 'lock her away' in a closed room when she is such a sensitive state. She will be very worried about what she has done wrong.

MunchkinsMom

Jul. 30, 2009, 09:35 PM

Just PLEASE don't 'lock her away' in a closed room when she is such a sensitive state. She will be very worried about what she has done wrong.

Oh, I had no intention of doing that. She will spend all day with me, and I might use the crate in our bedroom at night, so she can be with us 24x7.

I do have a "puppy playpen" that I will have to use to "gate" off part of the house if needed to keep her and the house dogs apart until her presence in the house become a non-event. That's because the one section I need to gate off is odd shaped, so I can use the pen panels to act as a gate. We have quite the assortment of tools available to us, years of dog ownership will do that for you.

I will admit that I experiencing a tiny bit of apprehension, not knowing how she will react to all of this, but I know I have to be calm and strong for her tomorrow.

RainyDayRide

Jul. 30, 2009, 09:45 PM

Has there ever been a stray dog with so many "aunties" worrying about her?

Good luck tomorrow - I bet she'll be really glad to be home, if a bit wary and unsure at first.

MunchkinsMom

Jul. 30, 2009, 09:54 PM

Has there ever been a stray dog with so many "aunties" worrying about her?

Somehow I think the answer is No, but then again, we have had other stray dog stories here on COTH where we are all rooting for a good outcome to their rescue.

MHM

Jul. 30, 2009, 10:21 PM

shea'smom

Jul. 30, 2009, 10:46 PM

I missed this great development! Dang work!
This is so wonderful! Yeah for Angel!!! She reminds me of my very special Deerdog. I have been reading this everyday, I don't know how I missed the big news!
Happy, Happy Day!

pony89

Jul. 30, 2009, 11:25 PM

I definitely wouldn't try the invisible fence with her at this point, and I am more supportive of IF than the average person. They require a great deal of training, and I don't think she is socialized enough for training that will involve a negative consequence like a beep, or later, a shock. If she does get confused and run through it, I think that would really set her back.

I know what you mean about it being heartbreaking. She seems so happy and content with her life around the farm, that it makes me wish she could just go back to that, but expand her territory to come up to the house, too. It seems like she will feel cooped up in the house. But hopefully, it will just be for a few weeks, and then she can be the barn dog and a house dog, as it suits her fancy. Maybe she will discover the joy of air conditioning, or a nice cold tile floor?

I can't see you getting a better opportunity to really get her acclimated to people. If it doesn't work out, she can always go back to being the farm dog, but you aren't likely to have this chance again any time soon!

Ghazzu

Jul. 30, 2009, 11:35 PM

I'm happy to see the most recent updates!

MunchkinsMom

Jul. 30, 2009, 11:51 PM

It sounds like your plan is very sound. If Plan A doesn't pan out, you already have Plan B in place. After that, there are still many letters left in the alphabet. ;)

I wouldn't be surprised if Angel figures out how to be an indoor/outdoor dog in a week or two. The first few days might require some adjustment for her, but she may realize it can be fun to have a family. :)

The pet door into the fenced yard is a great arrangement. That's what I have at my house, and my only regret is that I didn't set it up sooner. The dogs really love to make their own decisions about when to go in and out. My one dog now often sticks his head out the door, sniffs, looks around, then decides whether to go all the way out or come back in. Too funny. :lol:

Yup, this weekend is going to be fun-filled for sure! Trying to get myself mentally prepared for the challenge ahead.

On of my dogs does the same thing, sticks her head out the door and looks around. I have to tell her "Cubby, in or out, you are letting the bugs in and the A/C out!"

Hopefully with all of your good thoughts for us out there, things will go smoothly.

I'll be sure to post updates as they occur.

SevenDogs

Jul. 31, 2009, 02:53 AM

Don't worry, you'll do right by Angel! :yes: :yes: :yes:

Sometimes, everyone has to push the boundaries of their comfort zone just a bit, to see if you can go to the next level. You have plan B in place in case plan A doesn't, so you are covered.... but just think... what if Plan A DOES work! ... could happen!

Blacklabs

Jul. 31, 2009, 08:11 AM

Good Luck today, so glad Angel will be coming home and she has a very caring group of people looking after her.

starrysky

Jul. 31, 2009, 11:48 AM

Good luck today! I really hope that Angel gets accustomed to house living and barn life as a good mix. I can't wait to log on this weekend to see how things are going. This is going to be a big change for Angel, but she already had a dose of inside life at the vets (albiet not nearly as awesome as your house will be) - hopefully the other dogs will tell her how great life is there, and convince her that it's a good idea!

scotchie

Jul. 31, 2009, 11:50 AM

Good luck today! :)

Hot Soup

Jul. 31, 2009, 12:04 PM

MM what about 'borrowing' the neighbor's puppy for the initial introduction to your house dogs? Introducing Angel and the puppy together to your pack might make Angel more inclined to tolerate them to be near the puppy, and might give the house dogs another distraction (the puppy) that will take some of the initial chaos and attention away from Angel. Just a thought.

JanM

Jul. 31, 2009, 05:19 PM

Remember that a lot of the behavior will come from the attitude of the people who are dealing with the dogs. Many really can pick up cues from their humans (and of course some don't care what we think). Like Cesar says "Calm Assertive" for the owners-and it works with people too.

I love how this is working out for Angel and for all the people involved too.

Where I work there was a JRT type that was apparently dumped who was running around the post, and foraging for herself. The Animal Control guy tried repeatedly to catch her (for about 2 years at least) and finally they did get her. Everyone doubted she would domesticate well, but she fooled everyone and very quickly became a pampered couch potato with a great human family, and some other dogs with her too.

MunchkinsMom

Jul. 31, 2009, 05:54 PM

SHE'S HOME! And laying down in my office as I type this. And yes, I will try to get pictures later, the issue is that I have to upload them from my daughter's pc, they block the use of memory cards on this one (I need my own pc).

She was not happy about going into the crate at the vets office, but made the 5 mile trip home fine. My neighbor and I went as a team to get her, so we could use her Suburban and not my pickup.

Hubby helped carry crate and her into my office, with all 4 dogs going a bit bonkers. We let the dogs come in and sniff through the crate for a bit, and then put up the barricades.

I have to say the barricades are going to prove to be fairly useless with my beasts. We opened the crate door, and in a few minutes Angel poked her head out, and then came out into my office. This set the house dogs into a new level of excitement (and it does not seem like aggression, the just want to play). So after a few minutes of fending them off of the barricades, I closed my office door.

So, my daughter came in and petted her, and then brought her some water, and sat down to read her summer reading book out loud. Angel is now laying and resting, she does open her eyes when she hears noises outside the door, but she seems pretty calm if she closes her eyes and gives us big dog sighs.

I think I am going to have to put the dog gate across my office doorway, so that all Angel will have is my office for now, since the house dogs are doing their level best to knock over or climb over the puppy pen barracade. Trust me, the one aussie and the rhody/boxer could jump this with no problem. I've seen them both sail over bigger barracades than this.

So, it is almost dinner time, and I think for the time being I might just leave her in here with the door closed, or . . .bring my dinner in here and eat with her.

3horsemom

Jul. 31, 2009, 06:16 PM

i have tears in my eyes i am so happy for you both. pictures please!!!!

Blacklabs

Jul. 31, 2009, 06:21 PM

i have tears in my eyes i am so happy for you both. pictures please!!!!

me too!!! Welcome Home Angel

SevenDogs

Jul. 31, 2009, 06:21 PM

i have tears in my eyes i am so happy for you both. pictures please!!!!

Me T00! :)

MunchkinsMom

Jul. 31, 2009, 06:41 PM

Well, I took some pictures and as soon as I figure out how to get them posted.

After her short nap, I tried to take her outside. The heartwarming part was that she got up and wagged her tail for me. The sad part is how she cowers when I go to put the leash on. I had to use the slip leash from the vets office, because she could pull her head out of the collar she is wearing (whoever said get a harness was on the money there.).

So 3 of the house dogs got banished to the front yard, and one in my husband's office. I took down the dog gate, and she hesitantly explored the house, it takes some coaxing and creative body positioning to get her to move, I have to sort of get behind her shoulder to get her to move forward. (sound familar? Just like lunging a horse). I managed to get her into the back yard and of course she wanted to run to her barn (it broke my heart), and was not interested in doing her business, and I had to carry her back into the house, because as soon as I made it clear that we were going back inside, she lay down and sort of cowered.

So, before I let the house dogs back in, I let her explore my office and the bathroom a bit. The house dogs are a bit better, it is mostly the rhody/boxer that is an issue, and it is just that she wants to play in the worst way, and she has no concept of "play nice", she doesn't know she is 65 solid pounds of dog vs Angels 41 pounds. And of couse we need to restrict Angels exercise for at least a week, 14 days if we can.

Interesting observation of my house dogs. Cubby (one of the aussie/golden crosses) is being very good, mostly sits and watches, but she has decided that it is her job to reprimand the rhody/boxer, who has no respect of the barricades, and if she jumps up on it, the aussie barks at her. Which of course makes Angel sort of cower back into my office.

So, all in all, the first 2 hours have been okay, I will continue to play it by ear and perhaps once the house dogs get over their initial excitment I can let the most calm one in here. That might be Murphy, my saint of a dog.

LOL - the sound of typing must be soothing, Angel is back asleep. But every time I move my office chair or turn on the camera, she wakes up.

And my poor horses are being neglected, it is sort of past their dinner time, and I have not fed them yet. Good thing I don't have them on a strict schedule. As soon as my daughter gets back, I will have her come sit with Angel while I do the barn chores. Way too soon to try to take Angel down there on a leash, that would be pure torture for her to be where she wants to be right now, and not let her loose.

CB/TB

Jul. 31, 2009, 06:54 PM

Time will heal all. She must feel a bit secure if she'll sleep even in strange surroundings. You can now carry her . She may not like it, but didn't put up a fuss. You and DD can try to handle and interact with her as much as possible. I leave a radio on pretty much non stop, especially if I go out so there is always some music or voices in the background. It sounds like Cubby will be her first house doggy friend. Try the two of them in the fenced yard when Angel feels better. I'm sure things will work out in time. You've done a good thing.

jetsmom

Jul. 31, 2009, 06:54 PM

Do you have any of her favorite toys in the office? Playing fetch, even in the office might help remind her that some things are the same.

She might actually like going for a walk to the barn. Maybe you could have your daughter go with to keep her on a leash, while you feed? And I'd do the happy voice "Angel...wanna go for a WALK???" when you put the leash on. It'll get her to look forward to the leash, knowing it means something good. Right now, the leash means, getting caught, going to a scary vet's, where you then feel sore and live in a cage. I know that Rusty LIVED for his walks when I first caught him. And being in a place that is familiar to her might cheer her up. Right now, she probably has no concept that the house is right near the barn, where it is familiar to her. walking to the barn, so she knows she is close to her old environment may help her feel more at ease.

Trevelyan96

Jul. 31, 2009, 06:54 PM

I am so happy for you and Angel. Sounds like she's afraid of having the leash attached, maybe someone beat her while they had he by the collar? We took in a rescue like that once... they'd hold her by the collar and beat her, so she'd go beserk when someone touched her collar. It took a few months of careful desensitization, but we had that dog for 10 years before she died of old age and she was the best family dog ever! I'm sure Angel will give you years of joy as well!

MHM

Jul. 31, 2009, 07:09 PM

Thanks for the continued progress reports- and there is a LOT of progress!:)

Looking forward to more good news.

fivehorses

Jul. 31, 2009, 08:02 PM

I agree, I think Angel is doing spectacular. I also think in a few months that barn she is longing for now, will just be a trip out there with you to do chores.

I have a feeling she might like being an office dog!

I feel so sad she is cowering over the leash, but it may mean a horrible thing for her in the past.
Agree with all the above posters suggestions. But, I think you have things in order. Yeah MM ~ Yeah Angel

annikak

Jul. 31, 2009, 08:03 PM

Such great updates! I was away from the thread for a few days and missed the great moment. :D:cool: As far as Vacancy sign- my DH is convinced there is one at the end of the drive. :lol: Our last stays were 3 at most 10 day old kittens. Cute, but boy oh boy, time consuming!

I am soo thrilled for you and Angel. I think you are doing the right thing in keeping her with you inside. She may not be a free spirit- she may want your contact, but was too scared to ask. You'll know soon, I am sure!

Congrats to you all- and what a great DH!

MunchkinsMom

Jul. 31, 2009, 08:27 PM

Alright, who said she would be curled up on my couch before you know it???? I left the office to get dinner, and she whined for a second, and then all was quiet. I came back, and there she was curled up on my couch in my office! So I sat next to her for a few minutes, and petted her, which since she has only been petted in the past 3 days, she is starting to get used to it. She still cowers a bit if you pet her too quickly, but I figure she is going to have to get used to it, better to be calm about it and pet her just as I do my other dogs, well, not quite as firm, but you get the idea.

And then the best part (I get teary eyed just thinking about it. She licked the palm of my hand, and then licked my nose. I felt like that was her way of saying thanks.

I put 3 of the 4 house dogs in rooms, and took Angel out front with my saint, Murphy. Murphy took full advantage and instead of coming outside with us after the customary butt sniff, she bolted for my office and started snarfing down the dog food I had put down for Angel.

Angel was good, she did all her business in the front yard, and Murphy came out after my mother in law removed the dog food from the floor, gave Angel another butt sniff, and this time Angel wagged her tail a bit.

She was better about walking back to the house, but I had to pick her up when we got to the stairs, she made it up the first step, and then froze in place.

I took the gate down that was across the office door, and Angel is now expanding her territory to the bathroom and the hallway. She is listening to my daughter and her friend that are talking in the living room.

Oh, my daughter just came in and got her to eat some cheese from her hand, and right now (with my back to her) Angel is eating some dog food.

So many firsts for this dog in such a short time!

RainyDayRide

Jul. 31, 2009, 08:34 PM

ok, I got teary-eyed just reading that...

(of course, had to stop to laugh at Murphy's opportunism.)

Blacklabs

Jul. 31, 2009, 08:36 PM

I get teary eyed just thinking about it

:lol: ME TOO. We have waited so long for this moment. High Five MM.

Go Angel, we are so proud of you.

Sammy2010

Jul. 31, 2009, 08:43 PM

I just now joined just so I could THANK_YOU for taking in this beautiful, sweet dog. May you be BLESSED with Angel's love forever!!!!!!!!!
Bren

harveyhorses

Jul. 31, 2009, 08:49 PM

JanM

Jul. 31, 2009, 09:00 PM

About Murphy and his sneaky move--I read a story in Reader's Digest years ago about a man taking his dogs to training, and the instructor said to find out what your dog's attitude towards humans is you should fake a fall to the floor, and act like you're unconscious. The man did this, and through barely open eyes saw his dogs come up to check on him, sniff, the dogs looked at each other, abandoned him to his 'fate' and then both ran over and ate his dinner. So you're not the only person with a chow hound.

And Angel might not know about stairs-I've heard a lot of rescued greyhounds have to learn house things too, because they've never been in a house or on stairs before.

MunchkinsMom

Jul. 31, 2009, 09:02 PM

I am so happy for both of you!! That is just great about the sofa, and you DD!! My week has been less than stellar so this thred is tipping the balance to pretty good!
I have a really off the wall suggestion. Years ago we had a funny little dog whos head was smaller than her neck, so to get her to stay attached ot a leash was impossible, we improvised and used a pony halter (it was handy and we were an hour away from anyplace with a dog harness) her head went through the nose, and it buckled over her back, with her legs through the cheek side pieces. Not explaining it well, but it worked until we could actually get a harness. :cool:

Funny you should post that I was trying to picture how to use a halter to substitute as a harness, I have heard of people using them in a pinch. I did manage to her her collar a bit tighter, and put her rabies tag and the tag that says that she is microchipped.

I just let Murphy back into the office with us (after picking up the food of course. The other dogs seem to have lost interest at the moment. Maybe after Candy and Jenna go to bed with my in-laws, I will let Cubby in too.

LLDM

Jul. 31, 2009, 09:38 PM

Aw, happy dance! :)

SCFarm

Beethoven

Jul. 31, 2009, 09:38 PM

Don't think I have posted yet, but I check on this thread every day. I am so happy to hear the latest updates! Glad she is doing so well! :D

vineyridge

Jul. 31, 2009, 09:41 PM

Remember to still take things slow and easy. You don't want her to shut down from sensory overload, so she takes off once she's free.

You've got her lifetime ahead of you to do all the things you'd like to. :)

Tiki

Jul. 31, 2009, 09:46 PM

I did have a dog get out of a horse halter in a public place. I couldn't get it small enough. I went out and bought her a harness. She hasn't gotten out of that yet. I really would suggest a snugly fitting harness for your first few trips outside the fence - just in case. You've worked so hard for this you don't want her running off now. I think it would be best to acclimatize her to the house and other dogs well enough, and her comfort level really improves, before you take her outside the fenced-in area that you can be pretty sure she won't run away and even then, I'd have a harness and long leash on her just in case.

It does sound that within a week she should really be part of the family.

Also, besides not being used to stairs, remember you (and she) use your stomach muscles to climb stairs and hers have just been cut.

MunchkinsMom

Jul. 31, 2009, 10:18 PM

It is so interesting to watch the dogs. I let Jenna come in a little while ago, and discovered that she is jealous of Angel. I had forgotten that it is Jenna that likes to sleep on the floor next to my office chair, so basically Angel has taken her "spot". She she was not interested in meeting Angel, and when Angel sniffed her, Jenna make a little tiny snapping sound at Angel (which didn't frighten her). I gently scolded Jenna, and then fussed over her, telling her I still loved her and that she needed to be nice and share for a while.

Cubby is sleeping in my husband's office. Angel and Murphy are sleeping with me in my office.

Life is good!

jetsmom

Jul. 31, 2009, 10:33 PM

Awww. Don't you find yourself just looking at her with amazement that she really is sleeping in your house???? Especially if you go read the first couple of posts on this thread!

Zu Zu

Jul. 31, 2009, 10:35 PM

:cool: TOO COOL!!!! :cool: ~ AGAIN ~~I SAY THIS IS THE BEST THREAD EVER !!!!!~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~LIFE IS GOOD !!! IT'S A WONDERFUL LIFE!!!! WELCOME HOME ANGEL !!!!!!!!!!

suze

Jul. 31, 2009, 10:42 PM

Nose licking? I got teary eyed, too. What huge bounds forward!

kdow

Jul. 31, 2009, 10:43 PM

so much progress!

One thing about the leash - have you tried altering how you come at her with it? Pirate gets very worried if people (particularly large males) move at him from certain directions, but from other ways it's fine.

Maybe if you bring it up from below or kind of slide it along her back rather than letting it hang down at all? (Which seems like it could be scary if she's been hit with a leash or belt.)

MHM

Aug. 1, 2009, 12:06 AM

ok, I got teary-eyed just reading that...

(of course, had to stop to laugh at Murphy's opportunism.)

Ditto on both! :lol:

MrWinston

Aug. 1, 2009, 05:31 AM

MM, I was so happy to read about Angel's home coming. It's going just as I hoped it would. Keep in mind that she has just had surgery and will probably feel more confident as the discomfort wears off. I think that making herself comfortable on the couch is a REALLY good sign.

I have a suggestion about feeding Angel. I would not free feed her. I would keep her interested in taking treats from you for training. Free fed dogs lose food drive and become jaded about treats. For me this applies to all of my dogs but especially with a dog who has not been socialized.

I live in Williston, FL, probably not too far from you. Do you have a Sparr feed store near you? If so, you can get a halter for Angel there and not have to go to Pet Smart. Please keep the updates coming.

Alexie

Aug. 1, 2009, 07:13 AM

:) how fantastic, well done :)

Blacklabs

Aug. 1, 2009, 08:23 AM

MM I'm guessing you woke up this morning wondering if you were dreaming with all the progess that Angel has made. :lol:

Hope Angel had a good night.

MunchkinsMom

Aug. 1, 2009, 09:57 AM

I live in Williston, FL, probably not too far from you. Do you have a Sparr feed store near you? If so, you can get a halter for Angel there and not have to go to Pet Smart. Please keep the updates coming.

Grab your coffee, this might be a long post.

Yes, the Sparr feed store is 5 miles from my farm (I'm in Citra), I tell you I am in about the most perfect location a horse farm could be in. Everything I need within a 10 mile radius, at least from a horse owner/supply perspective.

I'm not free feeding her, I cannot leave food out due to Murphy, she will eat anything edible, and blow up like a blimp!

Angel is making the most unbelievable progess. Last night she also got aquainted with Cubby, who was good about it, but Cubby also peed on the carpet right after she gave Angel a butt sniff (guess she needed to mark her territory) :confused:.

Angel also prefers to go outside with a companion. I think when I try to take her outside alone, she might be thinking I am going to either take her somewhere bad, or banish her from the house. Murphy and Cubby helped last night, and all 4 dogs this morning.

At bedtime, I was not sure what to do with her, so I left her in the enclosure, with a dog bed, and just as I was nodding off, I started to hear her cry. So I got up, let her out of the enclosure, had her follow me into the bedroom, and put up a dog gate so that I would not have to deal with an unprepared meeting with Candy. She didn't make a peep the rest of the night, but I did hear Cubby make a low warning growl at one point, but Cubby is a bit vocal like that.

So at 6 AM (so much for sleeping in), I hear the dogs all getting antsy, which meant my mother in law was up and tending to the dogs. I let Murphy and Cubby out of the bedroom, and tried to get my wits about me as to how to get Angel outside.

Finally I just said, oh well, she has to meet Candy eventually. So we put the instigators (Cubby and Jenna) in the spare room and let Candy meet Angel. I just made sure that Candy did not get too dominant or excited. What happens is that if Candy goes into a highly excited state, the aussies start to "attack" her, they nip at her, and bark, which winds her up even more, which winds them up even more. . . not a pretty scene. I guess it is their nature as herding dogs.

Now, here was the funny part, we then let the instigators out of the spare room, and we all (5 dogs and me) went out in the yard, with Angel on a leash of course. It went amazingly well, and I did manage to coax Angel to come back in without being carried (the other dogs helped). Then I let Angel off the leash, and Candy sort of got into her face, and Angel actually snapped at her, and Candy actually backed off. I don't think anyone has stood up to Candy before, and luckily she did back off and not go into attack mode.

So Angel spent the morning hanging out with the pack, and the only thing is I have to keep the access to the dog door closed when she is loose in the house, because she watched the other dogs use it, and almost made it out the door last night :eek:.

It is hard for me to believe that just 4 short days ago, she was a semi-feral untouchable dog, now she greets me with wagging tail, I get lots of kisses, and she even went into play mode with me this morning, with the bow-down, front paw swipe action.

Right now she is laying here with me in the office with the door closed, so that the other dogs can go outside and Angel could eat some breakfast. I'm trying to get some weight on her, when you view her from the top down, she is rather thin, she weighs about 41 pounds, the vet said she could stand to gain some weight. I am gradually bringing her treats from the barn back to the house, since it is looking like she might make the transition to house dog with few problems.

Oh, on our second trip outside this morning, she really didn't want to come back inside, and managed to pull her head out of the collar, luckily I was quick and looped the leash around her neck, and got the collar back on and did have to carry her back.

I don't want to give her free run of the yard yet, because I noticed that when she was outside, she was mentally going back to her feral mode of thinking, not as willing to follow me, not even when I had the puppies (yes, they are almost 2 and I still call the aussies "puppies") as enticement.

Oh, and she is learning that when we come back in from doing our business outside that everyone in the pack gets a dog biscuit, and she is right there with the rest of the dogs around the biscuit bin waiting to get one. And she eats it right along with them, and there is no fighting over them either. I do think that for the most part, my dog pack is fairly stable minded.

This is a very smart dog, so hopefully training her will be easy.

Also knocking on wood, no accidents in the house yet - I won't count Cubby's marking the rug!

I must tell you how touched I am at all the support from you all here on COTH, what a great group of animal lovers we have here.

suze

Aug. 1, 2009, 10:23 AM

It is hard for me to believe that just 4 short days ago, she was a semi-feral untouchable dog, now she greets me with wagging tail, I get lots of kisses, and she even went into play mode with me this morning, with the bow-down, front paw swipe action.

YAY!!! Great progress - you're doing such a wonderful job with her! :D

AiryFairy

Aug. 1, 2009, 10:24 AM

Oh, and she is learning that when we come back in from doing our business outside that everyone in the pack gets a dog biscuit, and she is right there with the rest of the dogs around the biscuit bin waiting to get one. And she eats it right along with them, and there is no fighting over them either. I do think that for the most part, my dog pack is fairly stable minded.

This is a very smart dog, so hopefully training her will be easy.

Also knocking on wood, no accidents in the house yet - I won't count Cubby's marking the rug!

I must tell you how touched I am at all the support from you all here on COTH, what a great group of animal lovers we have here.

You've made amazing progress with her, and I still think she wasn't always feral, maybe her contact with humans before she found you wasn't great, but if she were truly wild you wouldn't have seen the progress you have. She sounds like a sweet girl, who wants to love people but can't quite let herself. She'll get there.

I would be *very* careful about interaction with the other dogs, some who are showing jealousy or marking territory, or growling, correct it immediately because it can escalate in a second. Usually if there are territorial issues they don't just blow over, there is some stalking around, evil eyes, and there is going to be a confrontation at some point until the territorial one claims her territory. If the dominance isn't squelched by the human, as in a sharp correction for just making eye contact when agitated, you might have a dog fight on your hands. Angel doesn't seem like she will back down either, she didn't get this far living feral by being a wuss. Usually takes a long time for a dog to acclimate to a pack, and not without a few dominance fights, but I love that she is waiting for her bikkie with the other dogs - smart girl!

MunchkinsMom

Aug. 1, 2009, 10:36 AM

I would be *very* careful about interaction with the other dogs, some who are showing jealousy or marking territory, or growling, correct it immediately because it can escalate in a second. Usually if there are territorial issues they don't just blow over, there is some stalking around, evil eyes, and there is going to be a confrontation at some point until the territorial one claims her territory. If the dominance isn't squelched by the human, as in a sharp correction for just making eye contact when agitated, you might have a dog fight on your hands. Angel doesn't seem like she will back down either, she didn't get this far living feral by being a wuss. Usually takes a long time for a dog to acclimate to a pack, and not without a few dominance fights, but I love that she is waiting for her bikkie with the other dogs - smart girl!

Oh I agree, that is why feeding time is still in a seperate room, and any sign of aggression from any of the dogs (and that includes so little as the evil eye), they get corrected immediately, and praised to high heavens when they all get along.

Right now her presence is a non-issue, all the dogs are quiet, Jenna is laying in her spot next to my chair, and Angel is standing in the doorway watching my husband walk back and forth, he is moving lord knows what (looks like books) out of his office and into the guest room. Oh, he is planning on ripping up his carpet and put in hardwood, that should be entertaining.

She just took her first trip out to the back porch, I like to sit and read the paper and drink coffee there, and the dogs like to come out and hang out with me. She would not come out on her own, but once the other 3 came out (no idea where Candy is, hopefully with my father in law) she followed them out, and then followed them back in.

Blacklabs

Aug. 1, 2009, 10:43 AM

Thanks for the update, it keeps getting better and better.

All your hard work and planning has paid off, you hit the lottery :yes:

fivehorses

Aug. 1, 2009, 10:58 AM

wow, wow, wow, I am speechless with how impressed I am with Angel's progress and your managing this situation just right.
WOW!
Yeah and cheers from NH.

harveyhorses

Aug. 1, 2009, 11:04 AM

Yay! I cna't wait for the next storms to roll in as she figures out even MORE how great that sofa is. Hope yours is big enough:winkgrin:
Are you starting to believe it yet?

birdsong

Aug. 1, 2009, 11:05 AM

I've been a silent lurker to your saga til now. Just wanted to say that you now have a very fine 5th canine companion...and I personally vote for her becoming a house dog.
Whatever her other life was like..she had become feral and fearful. Wouldn't want her to ever take a step back in her progress.
She will make her place in the pack known...so nice that the introductions have been gentle and slow.
Have you the time to go to the dog classes with your neighbor and their pup? That would also give the two of you special time .

Great going!!!

MrWinston

Aug. 1, 2009, 11:29 AM

I can't get over how well you've done with this dog. If you have made this much progress in just a couple of days, I have faith that Angel will normalize completely and fit right in in a very short time. Think about all of the new stuff she is processing in her doggy brain! This has been such a great thread to follow.

MunchkinsMom

Aug. 1, 2009, 01:28 PM

I'm beginning to think that she really fears that I am going to "put her out" and not let her back in. The last two times I tried to get her to go out - nothing doing. I picked her up and carried her out, and as soon as her feet hit the grass, she turned and headed back for the house. Second time I opened the door and let the pack out, held the door for her, and she turned and went back inside the house.

So, I have the dog door available if she wants to use it, and will keep an eye on her if she does go out, and will try again later to see if she needs to go out.

Went to the feed store and the only harness they had was one with the UF Gators all over it. Didn't feel like paying 17$ for it. Not sure I'm going to need it after all, since she does not want to go out.

First order of training is to get her to come when she is called, which of course is true of any dog. As to attending dog classes with the neighbor, no spare time for that for me, I'll do like I do with all my dogs, and make every interaction a training opportunity.

MrWinston

Aug. 1, 2009, 02:15 PM

I wouldn't have bought that halter either. Sounds to me like she will quickly figure out that she can go out and come back in. Look at how quickly she learned to enjoy being inside!

JanM

Aug. 1, 2009, 02:23 PM

I would bet you that the previous 'owner' tossed her out in the back yard and left here there after she was over the cute little puppy stage, and then dumped her off in the country to get rid of her. Typically a dog like this is shy because of lack of human contact, and sometimes animal contact, and they usually get dumped about the time they should get spayed or neutered because the a$*$**# that dumped her didn't want to spend a penny on her. This is a major reason why giving someone an animal they didn't choose to have is a bad idea, or someone giving the grandkids a puppy or kitten the parents don't want. I think the doggie door will work out just fine-and the other dogs will train her also. To train a dog with the doggie door I do what I call doggie football-push dog outside through the flap, give them a treat and repeat from the other side-and you don't even have to do that when other dogs are already trained to it. You just have to watch for collisions.

My dog apparently had a similar history and he loves looking outside, going out to check for squirrels in the yard, and loves his couch, but tolerates his yard. When I got him from the pound (he was 3 years or so) he had a nice clip (he's a Miniature Schnauzer), but was unneutered and wormy. So they spent money on one thing but nothing else.

Jaegermonster

Aug. 1, 2009, 02:30 PM

I'm beginning to think that she really fears that I am going to "put her out" and not let her back in. The last two times I tried to get her to go out - nothing doing. I picked her up and carried her out, and as soon as her feet hit the grass, she turned and headed back for the house. Second time I opened the door and let the pack out, held the door for her, and she turned and went back inside the house.

My old dog Riley was like that. I found her after she got run over and nursed her through a broken pelvis among other things. I had to pick her up and carry her out for weeks since she couldn't walk, and had other problems. She had been a stray for a long time before I found her.
Once she was better, you about had to drop kick her (no not really) to get her to go outside. Nothing doing. We called her Iron Bladder because she would hold it, once for over 24 hours, and just refuse to go outside. And forget it if it was raining or the wet grass touched her little tushy LOL. She wanted nothing to do with outside after she came to us.

You have done a great job with her MM, I am so happy for all of you. Good job.

jetsmom

Aug. 1, 2009, 02:42 PM

She'll figure out the doggie door pretty quickly.

Funny story w/one of my dogs and the doggie door, when I first got her. Christy (German shep mix in my photo-link/signature,) was dumped on the road to the barn. She sat at the stop sign waiting for her owners to come back for a week. Every time I'd try to catch her, she'd run, then circle back to the stop sign. I finally caught her after a week with no food.

When I got her home,after a couple of days she started playing w/my Cocker, chasing her around the house. My Cocker raced out the doggie door with her hot on her tail...until the Cocker "disappeared" through the wall (doggie door). Christy skidded to a stop with a look of amazement on her face like "OH MY GOD!!!! She's magical, and can go through WALLS!!!!!!" It was so funny.

Jaegermonster

Aug. 1, 2009, 02:46 PM

Ahem. I am going to present a motion that WE NEED SOME PICTURES PLEASE!

Blacklabs

Aug. 1, 2009, 03:16 PM

Ahem. I am going to present a motion that WE NEED SOME PICTURES PLEASE!

I will second. :)

MHM

Aug. 1, 2009, 03:17 PM

The last two times I tried to get her to go out - nothing doing. I picked her up and carried her out, and as soon as her feet hit the grass, she turned and headed back for the house. Second time I opened the door and let the pack out, held the door for her, and she turned and went back inside the house.

I just have to laugh. All this time you couldn't get her NEAR the house, and now she doesn't want to leave it! :lol:

Loving all the great updates. :cool:

Blacklabs

Aug. 1, 2009, 03:44 PM

MM just a reminder of how far Angel has come with your loving care, this is your first post on this thread. ;)

Some of you had some good suggestions when I posted about this on the last Off Topic days.

My neighbor and I are still on a mission to try to make friends with a poor stray dog what was dumped in our neighborhood of gentlemen farms and large cattle/horse farms. She was dumped with another dog, the other dog was successfully trapped by animal control (and adopted) about 4 months ago, but this little girl (a 40+ pound shepard cross) was too smart for trapping.

For the past two months, we have been feeding her, giving her treats and toys to play with, talking with her every chance we get, but we still can't get any closer than about 10 feet before she scampers off to her "safety zone".

Two weeks ago, we tried putting tranqs in her food, and it failed. The first day all she got was woozy, but not enough for us to get close to her, and we didn't want to frighten her any worse than she is. Second and third try, the tranqs had the opposite effect, she was running around and barking for about an hour. I think we are giving up on that approach.

Well, the past few days, she is now starting to come closer to the barn while I am feeding and doing chores, and I toss her a biscuit and talk to her.

We hope to be able to catch her, and get her neutered and all her shots, and see if we can turn her into a farm dog. I don't think she would ever be happy as a house dog, but I think she will be a great farm dog, she never chases the horses or cats, I see her laying in the pasture all the time with the horses grazing near her.

Anyone else have experience with "taming" a stray frightened dog?

thatmoody

Aug. 1, 2009, 04:07 PM

I have a lab who has been with me since birth (he was born, inside, in my lap) and he HATES the outdoors. He is the least lab-like dog I've ever seen - hates rain, hates water, hates it outside. He'll go outside to do his business, but only long enough for that, and for walks, and then he wants right back inside with the family. If you're outside he'll tolerate being out there so that he can "protect" you, but only as long as you are there. I honestly don't think he's ever been outside by himself longer than it takes to go to the bathroom.

We have other dogs who like it outside, and when he was born we had other dogs who were strictly outside dogs (my ex-husband's) and I think he was afraid we'd make HIM an outside dog!

apcohrs

Aug. 1, 2009, 04:29 PM

BEST.THREAD.EVER.

I check it at least twice a day.
The last couple of day's progress bring tears to my eyes.

MunchkinsMom

Aug. 1, 2009, 05:10 PM

She has not mastered the dog door yet, but has gotten over her fear of abandoment I guess. Or maybe she just really had to go out! The last two times, I opened the door for her, she came right out and did her thing, and then came right back to the door. So much for my fears of her tunnelling out, and going all the way back to my very first post of her saga (thank you Blacklabs for the reminder), so much for my thinking she would never be a house dog.

My DD had an interesting observation, apparently Angel only allows the other family members to pet her if I am in the area. While I am at the barn, she just lays around waiting for me, and if anyone tries to pet her, she sort of slinks off. I'm sure she will get over this soon too. It is a sign to me that she is my dog first - or more like I am her #1 human right now. She does kiss my DD and my MIL, but again, only if I am nearby.

Ok, ok, I get the hint, I will commander my DD and her camera to get pics, and since you all wanted one of me with her, I will even brush my hair and get in the picture with her. Maybe even a few with the other dogs, so you can see how well she has acclimated to her new life.

My neighbor called to check in on her, and was thrilled that she was doing this well, she had the same doubts that I did. Goes to show how little we know about dog psychology I guess. I told her I hoped she didn't fee like I "stole" her dog, and offered to let her go live with them, but she said, "no, Angel picked your farm and you to live with, it is where she should be". I told her that as soon as she is all healed up from the spaying that I will bring her over to play with her pup, I just want her to learn to "come" when called and walk a bit better on a leash, so we can get there safely. Guess I need to teach her that riding in the truck will be fun too, I could drive over there (seems silly though, since they are a short jaunt through the pasture away).

Right now she is laying flat out in the doorway of my office, I think she is pretty tired from all these adjustments.

Oh, for feeding time (and she still only eats a small amount) I did segregate her here in my office, and she waited for me to come back in before she would eat. I had to leave her because one of the aussies won't eat unless I am with her, and yes, we have tried the "pick up the food after 15 minutes" thing, which does not work well, because 10 minutes later the little princess is complaining that she is starving - she is very vocal, and not in a barking way, I swear she is trying to talk. Maybe tomorrow I will leave her out and see if she will eat with the pack, since she will eat treats with them.

A storm is blowing in, she just went out, felt the raindrops, and headed right back to the house!

Oh, one more thing. Since Angel is not in the barn anymore, I found an abundance of kitty paw prints in the dirt in the tractor/spreader stall. Good thing I am not leaving any more food out, it's okay with me if the kitty eats the mice though. I don't know if it is the kitty that was in my driveway the other day or not.

Jaegermonster

Aug. 1, 2009, 05:14 PM

That is wonderful news. I think riding her over there in the truck is probably a good idea. It's a very short trip, and at both ends will be good things. So I think that's the right thing to do. If she gets more comfortable (and you want to) she can be your riding buddy to the feed store and such. One of mine is like that. He's old but I still take him with me to go get hay and things like that.

JanM

Aug. 1, 2009, 05:32 PM

MM-as my dog aged, and since he's an only dog he doesn't have competition for his food so he eats slowly. Plus if he hasn't eaten by the time I leave the house I might as well trash the food because he won't eat while I'm gone. And I have to give him a goodbye treat while I'm still here, because if I give him a couple of dog biscuits as a goodbye present as I leave for work he will leave them to eat until I come home. And it may be that her royal highness is snubbing your plebian food that you are feeding her now, and will adjust after a while. I'm so happy for everyone involved and I'm really glad she's part of the pack now. And I'm wondering if some of the reaction by your house dogs to Angel when she was at the barn were due to the fact that that all of your dogs are neutered or spayed they might have been reacting to her hormones.

MunchkinsMom

Aug. 1, 2009, 06:14 PM

Well, Angel has learned the "biscuit dance" with the pack. My MIL started preparing dinner, and the pack headed for the kitchen, with Angel right in with them. I went in to see what they were up to, and they all started the dance, and Angel joined right in, she did a paw swipe at my leg, and then barked at me.

The food that I am feeding Angel is the same food that I was feeding her at the barn, with the exception that at the barn, she could eat at her leisure, she would sort of graze all day. Can't do that here, Murphy would snarf it up in a heartbeat if I leave it out. And of course fewer "treats" of chicken, steak and cheese. I did give her some this morning, because she has some pain meds to finish up, which she ate just fine in the cheese, and I might as well use up the chicken. I guess that is the price she will have to pay, no more people food, now that I don't need to bribe her anymore.

Zu Zu

Aug. 1, 2009, 06:22 PM

How GREAT! Making friends with a stray kitten ---awaiting BIG NEWS post!:winkgrin:

MunchkinsMom

Aug. 1, 2009, 07:23 PM

How GREAT! Making friends with a stray kitten ---awaiting BIG NEWS post!:winkgrin:

Unfortunately I have not seen the kitten again, and I don't know if I have the ability to be a "cat whisperer" :D All I have seen are kitty paw prints.

We just had our first "skirmish" and I had to reprimand Angel. For whatever reason, she snapped at Candy, this time more aggressively than this morning. For which she got shouted at with a very loud "No Angel, Bad!" like I used to do when she chased the horses. A few minutes later she raised her lip to Candy while we were on the back porch, and I let her know that that was totally unacceptable behavior by a firm tug on her collar and a firm "No - Bad". I guess it was to be expected, and she will have to learn her manners.

But on a cute note, she found the toy box, and was happily squeeking the Kong Wuba toy while we humans ate dinner.

She just ate more dinner, which was topped with steak trimmings. It was funny, when my husband came in with the steak off the grill, she was sniffing the air like crazy.

And I think she was happy to play with the toys, and I think Jenna was playing with her, because when I went in to the living room after dinner, Angel came running up to me, and jumped up on me. Of couse I had to respond to that by catching her front feet and telling her "No". Oh boy, the fun now begins, but hopefully not as much fun as the first 6 months with two puppies in the house last year when we brought the Aussies home.

Zu Zu

Aug. 1, 2009, 07:37 PM

We all know you can do it !!!! CAT WHISPERER!!!! A side note ~ you seem to "EAT PRETTY HIGH ON THE HOG!" ~ steak steak steak and sesame chicken... You could tame anything with that diet - but the kitten ~ is simply holding out for Grilled Tuna , shrimp and chicken.:D The kitten will return !!!!:winkgrin:

Larksmom

Aug. 1, 2009, 08:07 PM

:)My old dog who was a big shepard/chow mix, was the BIGGEST baby. I swear if I would have let him use the litter box, he would have never left the house! The new dog Toffee, to my dismay, seems to be going that way too. As she lived outside mostly and was possibly a feral, she HATES going out. If Amy goes, she goes willingly, but otherwise, she is against it! [Like Angel, she would also growl at Amy, which seemed to cause me more heartburn than Amy!];) When push came to shove, Amy did put her in her place, and now Toffee just adores her older mentor.:yes::D

MunchkinsMom

Aug. 1, 2009, 08:24 PM

kdow

Aug. 1, 2009, 09:22 PM

I hope to nip any aggression right in the bud, because I fear that if push came to shove, Angel would not win. She is messing with a Rhodesian Ridgeback/Boxer cross, and while she is usually a big lap dog and totally devoted to my MIL, I know she could do some serious damage if she chose to. Luckily for us so far, she has chosen not to counter attack. I have to admit that it took me by surprise that Angel would do that.

I think it's normal to have some 'growing' pains when you introduce a new dog, particularly one that might not have had a lot of socialization with other dogs in terms of playing/being around groups. (That was one of the problems we had with Pirate - he was fine with Foxy being around, but some of her play behaviors just confused him and he'd get scared and nervous.)

He was also a one-person dog when he arrived, and now (a year later) he's happy enough to do the 'rounds of the house and hang out wherever is most interesting at the moment. (Right now he and Foxy are both by the front door hoping for a walk.) So while she might always have a preference, she should warm up to the others eventually. (Maybe make a point of only letting other people give her treats? I know food helped Pirate warm up to my mom quite a bit.)

AiryFairy

Aug. 1, 2009, 09:51 PM

I hope to nip any aggression right in the bud, because I fear that if push came to shove, Angel would not win. She is messing with a Rhodesian Ridgeback/Boxer cross, and while she is usually a big lap dog and totally devoted to my MIL, I know she could do some serious damage if she chose to. Luckily for us so far, she has chosen not to counter attack. I have to admit that it took me by surprise that Angel would do that.

No other signs of the kitty today, I'm hoping it goes to one of my other neighbor's barns, she leaves cat food out for her two barn cats, and a big gray cat has also taken up residence there, he used to hunt in my barn, until Angel chased him away.

This worries me, because the RR in Candy isn't going to back down, very assertive and determined dogs. Nor is Angel if she's already curling her lip as a warning, that could be a bad fight if they ever went for each other. And as I like to say, "they don't call them bitches for nothing!" I wonder if they will always have to be separated, some females just do not get along. Angel sounds like she's warming right up to home life, though, that's sweet that she's so trusting already. She wouldn't eat in the tack room until you left, and now she won't eat unless you're there? Amazing turnaround.

JanM

Aug. 1, 2009, 10:48 PM

My uncle had two dogs that they always had to feed separately because of food issues-one was a boxer and one a Boston Terrier, and the problem was with the Boston trying to be boss. And sometimes they all work it out and develop pecking order without bloodshed. I wonder if Angel's trying keep you to herself? I know dominance issues can get ugly but I hope it all works out quietly and permanently very soon. And the worst aggression issues I've known have been between females defending their humans from the other dog.

shea'smom

Aug. 1, 2009, 11:12 PM

If you think about all the sad tales we have shared here in these last months, it is s real treat to have also shared this story.
This is the thread I always check when I am out of town.
Thank you to COTH for adding this forum and MM for letting us in on this journey. Please don't stop!

MunchkinsMom

Aug. 1, 2009, 11:34 PM

I wonder if Angel's trying keep you to herself? I know dominance issues can get ugly but I hope it all works out quietly and permanently very soon. And the worst aggression issues I've known have been between females defending their humans from the other dog.

I've been trying to figure it out also. Maybe because I introduced her to Candy last, and it was not as calm as I would have liked, mostly because Candy is the most stubborn dog I have ever met. Angel has not once curled her lip at the other three, the get along great. Also, Candy does not hang out with us very often, she usually is in with my in-laws on their side of the house. I'll just have to be dilegent about them, and hopefully they will work it out. Candy got bonus points for not attacking back. There are times during the day that there are no issues between them, this incident happened in my office, and the other dogs were all there too.

Other than that one incident, it has been a great day. Angel is now comfortable to come jump up on the couch while I work on the computer, she comes outside without a leash (in the fenced in yard), and layed quietly while we ate dinner.

And right now she is in the kitchen with my DD checking out what is going on in there.

Lets hope for another good day tomorrow.

Oh, and my DD promises to be the photographer tomorrow. Then I can upload the photos from her computer. I have some of just Angel on my camera, I need to find the adaptor to upload from the card to her computer.

MHM

Aug. 1, 2009, 11:41 PM

Angel is now comfortable to come jump up on the couch while I work on the computer, she comes outside without a leash (in the fenced in yard), and layed quietly while we ate dinner.

And right now she is in the kitchen with my DD checking out what is going on in there.

Holy cow. Wasn't it just 3-4 days ago you could barely get a finger on her? It's like your vet spayed her, vaccinated her, and put her through a time warp machine! :lol:

Hope everything keeps going well- with luck, the dogs will sort things out without major trauma.

Crooked Horse

Aug. 2, 2009, 12:10 AM

when I went in to the living room after dinner, Angel came running up to me, and jumped up on me.

OMG - possibly the best sentence of the thread!

JanM

Aug. 2, 2009, 10:17 AM

I really think since the incident happened in your office that Angel was protecting you and her 'den' from the interloper. It really sounds like sibling rivalry.

And if you need to segregate her in the kitchen or somewhere I use a metal exercise pen-three feet tall across the doorway in 'W' pattern-and I've never had a dog think about jumping it for some reason-and I've had some good jumpers. For one dog that could have cleared this easily I put a couple of wood bookcases on my side of the doorway, a few inches out from the wall, and a plywood sheet (cut down to the height of the bookcases), and I could slide the plywood out of the way as needed. You could use anything heavy besides the bookcases if you need to. Hopefully, you won't need to segregate her in the house for too long but it is an option.

I love how much progress Angel's made-and it's probably time for the BOD of the Association push the waiver through.

MunchkinsMom

Aug. 2, 2009, 10:38 AM

We had a lovely peaceful night, I didn't put up any barricades, I think Angel slept in my bathroom instead of in the dog bed on the floor. Cubby and Murphy sleep on my bed, and I think Cubby was giving off vibes that she didn't want Angel in the bedroom. Nothing that I could tell from body posture, but I don't speak fluent "dog" yet.

When my MIL got up, she put all 5 dogs (I keep typing 4 - hahaha) out, Angel went right out, did her business, and came back in and headed straight for the biscuit box - she is a quick study! I got up when I heard them all moving about.

Angel was so excited to see me, now I need to teach her that swiping me with her paws is also not desirable behavior, or I am going to look like an abuse victim. Good thing the vet clipped her nails. She is starting to wag her whole body now when she is very excited.

I brought Angel into my office to feed her, and she ate more than usual. It took a bit to get her in and everyone else out. Then we went back out, and fed the other dogs. I brought Angel's food bowl out, but she would not eat while everyone else ate, that is going to take time.

I really think since the incident happened in your office that Angel was protecting you and her 'den' from the interloper. It really sounds like sibling rivalry.

You might be right, because she did it again this morning, this time poor saintly Murphy was the target, and once again I immediately corrected Angel, she must learn that this is unacceptable behavior, And it was right inside my office doorway, so I think it might be a protective thing, especially since I have been feeding Angel in here, guess I need to move where I feed her so that she will not be like that. I will be honest, it does worry me a bit, I have never dealt with a dog that was that agressive to other dogs, this is new territory for me. Good thing I have been watching all those dog training shows on TV lately, to give me pointers.

She also needs to learn what is not open for being chewed, this morning as I was gathering up my clothes to get dressed, she started to chew on the dog bed in my bedroom. I have a feeling she is going to be hearing me say "NO" rather frequently for a few weeks.

Right now she is sleeping flat out on the rug in the hallway leading to the front door.

Oh, she also sort of played with Cubby, Jenna and Murphy this morning, they all came running through the house (which she is not supposed to do yet) and there was some slippage on the wood floors and a crash into the wall - not sure which dog, but I suspect it was Angel.

I love how much progress Angel's made-and it's probably time for the BOD of the Association push the waiver through.

LOL - since I am one of the 4 BOD members, that should not be a problem. I think I will just let that "sleeping dog lie" for now, and say nothing unless one of the neighbors complains. Which I don't think they will, since everyone in the neighborhood will be happy that she was finally caught - she won't be stealing the newspapers, or running around riling up their dogs, or luring them to escape. Good thing we only have 12 homes built here (out of a possible 22) so it should not be too hard to get a homeowner acception passed with a majority vote if it came to that. And that is all I am going to say on the subject of my HOA - because that in itself could be another book topic - mostly on bad human behavior.

MunchkinsMom

Aug. 2, 2009, 10:53 AM

Oh geeze, I got so busy rambling on about the AM activities, that I forgot to tell you my "epiphany" this morning. While I was cleaning stalls (I do my best thinking in there), I realized that if we had captured her 6-7 months ago, the outcome would not be this good, that all my work of building up a relationship, and some of our training outside with my interacting with her was a really big factor in her transformation.

Those of you that posted that she may have had a home before coming here are probably right, because I cannot believe that she would be so good about housebreaking as she has been if she had been totally feral. But it amazes me that she has spent the past 14 months living like a wild thing, yet might retain some of her former training (whatever that might be).

The other light bulb moment I has was realizing how important my other dogs are in this process, that they serve as role models to help Angel assimilate to home life, and that I now understand Cesar's "boot camp" for dogs - that a balanced group of dogs can help a troubled animal even more than a human can.

My2cents

Aug. 2, 2009, 12:25 PM

Totally, the power of the pack. Just like a puppy needs to stay with it's littermates for at least 8 weeks to learn the 'rules', an older dog needs balanced dogs to keep it's 'dogness' in balance. With her seeing the interaction between you and the dogs as positive with you as pack leader, she's more than willing to 'give up' her role as stray and join in with the pack. It sounds like you are doing EVERYTHING correctly, the positive reinforcement, letting the aggression never escalate. Girl dogs can be bitc%es no matter how much training goes on, so don't take that as anything more than it is. Some dogs have prejudices that can't be understood. I, like the others, check this post everyday for my 'Angel' updates and it always leaves me with a smile. Thanks for sharing your lovely story.

lcw579

Aug. 2, 2009, 02:31 PM

This thread makes me so happy! :D It is great that all your patience is paying off MM. You haven't taken a wrong step and Angel is settling in to her new life as a house dog so quickly it's amazing! :)

MunchkinsMom

Aug. 2, 2009, 03:41 PM

Girl dogs can be bitc%es no matter how much training goes on, so don't take that as anything more than it is.

Thanks for a good laugh. I have not had a male dog in my household since I was 16, that was many moons ago. You should hear the two aussies when they are "play fighting" - anyone that didn't know the dogs would be convinced that they are trying to tear each other's throats out, but it is all noise - neither dog is serious.

I'm still adjusting to the fact that Angel is finally a house dog, I keep looking for her in the field and in the barn, it will be nice to bring her back down there just to keep me company. Of course that is if I can convince her to leave the A/C and come back to the barn.

Right now Jenna is sleeping on my couch, and Angel is sleeping in the doorway. It makes me want to curl up and take a nap with them.

Jaegermonster

Aug. 2, 2009, 03:49 PM

The other light bulb moment I has was realizing how important my other dogs are in this process, that they serve as role models to help Angel assimilate to home life, and that I now understand Cesar's "boot camp" for dogs - that a balanced group of dogs can help a troubled animal even more than a human can.

I totally agree with that. I have had fosters and rescues time and again at my farm who have suffered unspeakable things, once they get into my "pack" it is amazing how fast they come around and turn into loving, sweet, adoptable animals. Dogs are great therapy not just for us, but also sometimes for each other. They are wonderful animals.

Home Again Farm

Aug. 2, 2009, 04:42 PM

Haven't read this thread for a bit. What a surprise to come back and read about the amazing progress you have made in the last few days. Angel's reaction when trapped in the stall speaks volumes. I am certain that in no time she will be fully transformed into one of the gang of five. Bless you, your neighbors and your vet for seeing this through with such kindness and care.

I have a muttlet that I have had since December 2001 (got her from a rescue as a 5 month old puppy and she'd been fostered for 3 months because no one wanted such a timid dog). She had some lameness problems when she was about 10 months old and we did quite a few xrays. Those showed many places where she had had bones broken (remember, she was 2 months old when she was rescued, so someone beat a tiny puppy). She is one of the best dogs I have ever had — loyal, sweet, attached totally to me. But, to this day, there are certain ways that she does not want to be approached. Loud noises scare her. The things these poor creatures sometimes endure from humans boggles the mind. The fact that they can recover their trust in people, boggles the mind even more. Bless you, MM!!!!!

RainyDayRide

Aug. 2, 2009, 06:25 PM

What an amazing transformation in such a short period of time - much faster than I would have guessed possible. I agree with the theory that the presence of a happy existing pack facilitated her easy acceptance of home life. (glad Candy is sleeping with the in-laws, though, and not in your room.)

You've mentioned Angel's increasing comfort with MIL and DD - how is she doing with the men of the house?

I wonder if you'll ever again get her to agree to get her paws dirty keeping you company in the pasture. ;)

eta .. any idea about Angel's age? She looks to be in her prime from the photos.

Larksmom

Aug. 2, 2009, 06:59 PM

But while it is terribly stressful, while it is happening, I wouldn't worry too much about growling. I mean DO stop it at once, but I was VERY concerned over this, and it has worked itself out amongst the two of them. Now I have a small house, and two medium/large dogs, but Toffee has decided Amy is a smart cookie who can teach her a lot! ;) I think it will just take time, and it is possible they might never be close. My whole family has muiltiple dogs, and they all get along, except for one of my nieces. A female lab/pit. Very assertive, especially toward other females. But on the whole, they all get along well.

MunchkinsMom

Aug. 2, 2009, 08:11 PM

Remember all those months of baby steps? Now she is making giant leaps!

She is pretty good with the men in the house, my husband is very patient and quiet, and just gives her little pets when he walks by, so that she won't feel threatened. I told him he would make more progress if he gave her treats, but he and I have differences of opinions on treats, and maybe that works for him, because the dogs never pester him for treats.

I decided to move the feeding area to the kitchen with the rest of the pack tonight. I brought her dish out, and put some of the house dog food in with her food, and put some of her food into the other dogs bowls. It took her a few minutes, but she did eat while the other dogs were eating, but the silly girl only ate the house dog food, and left her's in the bowl! The giant step was I was sitting on the floor with the aussies, and she came over, and I was hand feeding food to all 3 dogs at once. She only wanted their food, they only wanted her food. Even if I put a combination in my hand, she would only eat their food and leave her's. I don't know how they do that.

After I had my dinner, I tood the dogs outside, and the aussies took off across the lawn after something, and Angel ran after them - she is incredibly fast - I shouted "Angel No" because she is not supposed to be running, and she came running back with Cubby in hot pursuit. Angel came to me and dropped to the ground, and Cubby got on top of her with her fur all up and growling. Cubby got reprimanded for that one. So, Angel was the recipient this round. It did make her a little leary of coming inside with Cubby standing in the doorway, but she got over it. I'm learning not to get to harried over the growling, I know they are just establishing their pecking order, but I think they can find less agressive ways to do it.

Another giant leap was about 15 minutes later, Angel gave me a little whine, so I asked her if she needed to go out, and she went to the door. So I let her out, and Murphy and Jenna went out too. Angel peed and then went to explore around the big oak tree in the front yard with Jenna (Cubby only poked her nose out the dog door, I think she was afraid I might yell at her again or something). I let them explore for a few minutes and then I went back to the front door, and called the dogs. Murphy and Jenna of course were first to come in, so I called Angel again, and she came trotting right to me.

We got a bunch of good pictures today, well, I'm not particulary photogenic, but the pictures will show you how happy she is. Going to upload them to a new album, and I will post the link as soon as they are done.

suze

Aug. 2, 2009, 08:57 PM

We got a bunch of good pictures today, well, I'm not particulary photogenic, but the pictures will show you how happy she is.

Well, where are they??;) We have a reining show here today & I've been running in here every time the arena gets harrowed (fortunately I've passed show harrowing on to a boarder who actually enjoys it) and refresh this thread. HUGE bounds forward today!!! You've all done such a wonderful thing for her & now she's actually being a dog instead of a poor cowering little mite with negative self confidence. Wow! Just Wow!!

MunchkinsMom

Aug. 2, 2009, 09:50 PM

Well, where are they??;) We have a reining show here today & I've been running in here every time the arena gets harrowed (fortunately I've passed show harrowing on to a boarder who actually enjoys it) and refresh this thread. HUGE bounds forward today!!! You've all done such a wonderful thing for her & now she's actually being a dog instead of a poor cowering little mite with negative self confidence. Wow! Just Wow!!

Sorry, I have the slowest internet on the planet, and since my company blocked direct access to the camera memory card, I had to download on my daughters PC to a CD, then upload to my PC, then upload to Picture Trail.

Check out my photo album called: "Stray No More" - it is easiest to view in slideshow mode.

http://www.PictureTrail.com/gid22363936

Angel is getting better about interacting with the other humans in the house too. I keep forgetting that she has only been in the house for 2 days now.

RainyDayRide

Aug. 2, 2009, 09:57 PM

Truly amazing photos.. thank you.

Love the one of her sacked out on the couch ... and all of them with her looking so comfortable.

Blacklabs

Aug. 2, 2009, 09:59 PM

Thank you MM, it's so good to see her in the house and also to see your family.She has a lovely home to live in with lots of love. She sure looks happy.

Home Again Farm

Aug. 2, 2009, 10:23 PM

Wonderful. She looks like a transformed dog. Amazing. Bless you for taking all the time necessary to bring this little lady home.

suze

Aug. 2, 2009, 10:26 PM

Oh geez. I had to go through twice since I have tears in my eyes & didn't want to miss any of them. Wonderful, wonderful pictures! Thanks so much for posting them. She looks so happy and relaxed and at home with your pack.

chai

Aug. 2, 2009, 10:28 PM

What a wonderful story. That is one happy dog! It was very kind of you to hang in there.

3horsemom

Aug. 2, 2009, 10:34 PM

wow! what an amazing tranformation in such a short amount of time. all of your dogs look so happy. i must admit that cubby looks like a real character!!!

kdow

Aug. 2, 2009, 10:55 PM

MunchkinsMom

Aug. 2, 2009, 11:05 PM

You seriously could not tell by looking at those that she was such a short time ago the type of dog you had to trap in a stall to get to the vet.

Dogs are so amazing.

(I think I have an extra special place in my heart for her because her face reminds me of Pirate. I'll have to see if I can get some good photos of him.)

Oh please do, I would love to see pictures of dogs that folks have rescued. We got the two aussie/goldens from a rescue, but they were tiny puppies, so I don't consider them to be true rescues, not like Angel. Candy was a pound dog too, and I do consider her to be a true rescue.

I love her little "eyebrows", it gives her such expression, especially when the go up and down as she is trying to figure something out. Each of my dogs has their own unique facial expressions and mannerisms, it is interesting to watch them all day long.

Buffyblue

Aug. 2, 2009, 11:24 PM

Fantastic pictures and I am amazed at how quickly she is adjusting after all that drama outside! LOL! I've brought home barn cats and everyone told me the cats would never adjust to being inside. Once they found the pillow on the bed - that was it! Your patience has finally paid off. What a great success story!

MHM

Aug. 2, 2009, 11:43 PM

Those pictures are fantastic! She looks so happy. Thank you so much for posting them. :cool:

MunchkinsMom

Aug. 2, 2009, 11:48 PM

Awww, she is laying all stretched out flat on my couch, having a dream, doing the little dog twitch thing.

I still can't get over how quick she acclimated - I was really wrong thinking she would not want to be a house dog.

suze

Aug. 3, 2009, 12:12 AM

I still can't get over how quick she acclimated - I was really wrong thinking she would not want to be a house dog.

Ahhh, but dogs are great opportunists - she realized early on in the house it was going to be good being a house dog. :D

SevenDogs

Aug. 3, 2009, 12:18 AM

She looks INCREDIBLY happy and at home! Love the couch picture. You have a beautiful family. Congratulations! :)

jetsmom

Aug. 3, 2009, 01:36 AM

Great pictures! I like the one where she is kissing the other dog, and where she looks like she is kissing/cuddling with you. It's so amazing to see you actually patting her, and her looking so happy to have a home!

thatmoody

Aug. 3, 2009, 07:06 AM

They are truly beautiful pictures, and reflect how happy she is in her new surroundings. Angel seems to be adapting beautifully. She may have been happy before, but she is ecstatic now.

Indy

Aug. 3, 2009, 07:17 AM

Great photos! She looks so happy and at home.

Home Again Farm

Aug. 3, 2009, 10:43 AM

Oh please do, I would love to see pictures of dogs that folks have rescued.

Here is mine. She's the rescue I mentioned in a post above. We've had her since December 2001 and sometimes she still has flashbacks of being beaten, but mostly she is a happy and beloved girl. The puppy is her best buddy who is now a year old.

http://www.homeagainfarm.com/images/Trix_Bootsie_buds.jpg

http://www.homeagainfarm.com/images/Bootsie2_08.jpg

kdow

Aug. 3, 2009, 11:26 AM

Oh please do, I would love to see pictures of dogs that folks have rescued. We got the two aussie/goldens from a rescue, but they were tiny puppies, so I don't consider them to be true rescues, not like Angel. Candy was a pound dog too, and I do consider her to be a true rescue.

I love her little "eyebrows", it gives her such expression, especially when the go up and down as she is trying to figure something out. Each of my dogs has their own unique facial expressions and mannerisms, it is interesting to watch them all day long.

He's at the vet today for tooth extraction, so it'll probably be a few days yet before he feels up to striking a pose. (I'm so nervous, I hate when my animals are in for surgery.)

Pirate has that coloring also, and the 'eyebrows' really do make a difference. :) When I was studying psychology I read a study where they'd found that dog owners use the same part of their brain to recognize dog faces that they do people faces. (This wasn't true for non-dog owners.) And they can really be quite expressive.

Having an older rescue (Pirate was 5, previous pound puppies were actual puppies) has been something of an experience just because there's so much you don't know about the history. So it can be a learning process for everyone, figuring out what works and what doesn't. :)

Proud To Be Spotted

Aug. 3, 2009, 11:49 AM

Love the pictures. It looks like Angel has found her heaven.

suze

Aug. 3, 2009, 11:58 AM

What a cute dog! Love the pic of her with the puppy.

witherbee

Aug. 3, 2009, 12:47 PM

monstrpony

Aug. 3, 2009, 01:07 PM

WHAT GOOD DOGS!!

MunchkinsMom

Aug. 3, 2009, 01:50 PM

Awwww - GREAT pictures MM! She is such a cute dog - love the big brown eyes and her "floating" ears - so cute when they are up and to the side, like the Flying Nun lol!

She reminds me of Shadow when I got her from the Humane Society (after being there for almost 5 months) - Shadow fit in so quickly and on her first night got up on the guest room bed and just stretched out for hours - felt so good after being in the kennel.

Congratulations - you've got a true house/barn dog now. Are you worried at all about letting her back out? What are you thinking as far as that goes?

Here are some pictures of my Shadow (choose slideshow): http://s74.photobucket.com/albums/i245/wtryan/Our%20Pets/Shadow/

Congratulations MM and Angel!

Thanks, Shadow looks great, and very happy at your farm. HAF, loved the pics of Bootsie too!

As to letting Angel out of the fenced in yard, I think I will wait at least the two weeks, maybe 3 before trying it, so I can have a chance to get her to be more "biddable", meaning that I can trust her to come to me when called, and/or leash trained.

Right now we are having a very severe t-storm, and Angel is shaking just like the rest of them, and she actually went and woke up my FIL, that is her first time of initiating contact with someone other than me. So my MIL brought her to me, but she didn't want to stay, some of the dogs are frightened because I have a big window in my office. As I was typing the storm is blowing over.

This morning, Angel was so excited when I got out of bed, she was wiggling all over, spinning, jumping up and down, and doing her best to not tackle me, because I think she understands that I do not like the jumping on people thing. I'm trying to figure out if she is happy to see me, or happy because I will get up and get breakfast for her.

My MIL tried to feed her breakfast with the rest of the pack, but she and Jenna would not eat. So I filled Angels bowl and Jenna's bowl, and put a little bit in the other 3 dog bowls, and all 5 dogs ate very nicely.

My next challenge will be to teach her about the dog door, she watches the other dogs launch themselves through it. Luckily she has not mastered it yet, since she was whining by the front door when the storm started, I think she wanted to go where she would always go, in the deserted farm next door.

MunchkinsMom

Aug. 3, 2009, 01:52 PM

It looks like Angel has found her heaven.

Aww, that brought a tear to my eye, thanks!

Blacklabs

Aug. 3, 2009, 02:00 PM

So glad she is inside for this storm. You always wondered where she went in the storms and how she felt when they blew in. At least this time she has someone to comfort her.

VWBug

Aug. 3, 2009, 02:08 PM

My head is positively spinning. Or it might just explode - it's almost too much to take in! SO much progress is so little time.

I think my favorite post to date was #1134 - couches and kisses.

Angel finally has the home she so richly deserved.

MunchkinsMom

Aug. 3, 2009, 09:04 PM

Angel had a great day today. There was no signs of aggression from any of the dogs, and she has learned to eat while the rest of the pack eats.

I had to put my husbands shoes in the closet, I had forgotten all the shoes that she used to steal from my neighbors porches, and she took the insert out of one of his shoes in the bedroom this morning. At least she didn't chew it.

Luckily she has not been doing to much extra physical activites, like racing across the lawn with the dogs. This afternoon after dinner, the two aussies went racing to the far corner, and Angel went bounding after them, but only as far as the big oak in the center. And when I say bounding, she literally bounds up and down, it is soo darned cute!

She is also becoming much more social with the rest of the humans in the house.

Zu Zu

Aug. 3, 2009, 09:06 PM

Grand story and grand dog and grand family !!!Thank you for sharing so much with all of us cothers! This thread makes my day !

fivehorses

Aug. 3, 2009, 09:46 PM

RainyDayRide

Aug. 3, 2009, 10:35 PM

There was no signs of aggression from any of the dogs, and she has learned to eat while the rest of the pack eats.

There's nothing like sharing - and surviving - the terror of a good thunder storm to promote bonding.:lol:

Chief2

Aug. 3, 2009, 10:45 PM

Nice photos, MM! Angel looks like she is right at home!

MunchkinsMom

Aug. 3, 2009, 10:53 PM

Just wanted to share this before I sign off for the night. Angel decided to go camp out in my husband's office with him and Cubby for about an hour. I actually had to go look around the house for her, and there she was, sleeping on the floor next to his desk. That really warmed my heart to see how well she is accepting everyone in the family now.

lcw579

Aug. 3, 2009, 11:00 PM

I think when she sees the barn, she is going to ditch you and run straight back to the house! LOL

It is amazing that just 2 days ago, she was basically a feral dog.
She looks so happy MM. You did super good.

Yup, it's looking more and more like your trips to the barn are going to be solo again from now on! Angel has found her home and she's not leaving.

RnR

Aug. 3, 2009, 11:48 PM

All right, all right. You are good. You have lured me out of the woodwork too. I've been following this story for several months, and I love the updates.

I just got back from being out of town for the past 2 weeks (what a looonngg vacation) and about had a heart attack when I saw your updated post. I am so happy!

And, you are an amazing story teller. As I read, I imagine how things look, and when I saw the pictures, you honestly explained it all so perfectly. It probably helps that I live in FL too, so I especially imagine it perfectly when you mention the random thunderstorms. :yes:

She is too adorable. I LOVE the picture of her licking your face, and has your dog Jenna become her friend? I think it's so sweet that she is licking her too. She is finally getting to experience how nice it is to be loved and have friends. Her expression is cute when she puts her head on the ground and looks up at you. I think you have yourself a "house" dog after all.

I am also just amazed that she is so potty trained. How strange! But what a blessing for you, haha!

MrWinston

Aug. 4, 2009, 06:09 AM

Ya done good MM! The new photos are great. It really is amazing how Angel is adapting at warp speed. I hoped that this would happen but now that it has, I'm blown away.

harveyhorses

Aug. 4, 2009, 07:40 AM

Wow! Those pics are great, I love the one where your DD is making a noise, Angel has a look of 'are you o.k. over there??' I don't think it's baby steps anymore. Now it's leaps and bounds (or leaping and bounding)

JanM

Aug. 4, 2009, 07:44 AM

MM-my dog when he first arrived was a clothes and shoe stealer. He didn't eat them- just take them out the doggie door on the raised back porch and leave them. And take out items included underwear and slippers. I very quickly found out that if you removed it you should hang it up or put it safely away, unless I wanted to play hide-and-seek with it.

Since my dog was abandoned on the streets in a neighborhood of older people, and then rescued by the AC people my vet and I developed a few theories about him. Apparently, it's very common that the older people like to get a nice house dog, and then something happens to the owner. The relatives come to down, take care of what ever business they need to, sell the house, dump the furniture, and dump the dog. It's probably what happened to Angel, or the second she wasn't the tiny little puppy she was tossed out in the yard to fend for herself, and then taken out to the country and dumped.

CB/TB

Aug. 4, 2009, 08:59 AM

She has finally found a loving home. This is the first post I go to every morning. Could it be she was a "home dog " for a little while in her previous life ( BMM - BeforeMunchkinsMom)?
Our rescue, Lola the Lovely GSP is years older than Angel. We've only had her a few months, but she walked in the door and just settled in like she'd always been there- right down to knowing when to sit before eating, playing well with others, and letting the cat live! They appreciate the finer things in life, too. What a wonderful story you have- . Waiting for the book, too. Hey, if Marley can do it, so can you and Angel! Check out Marvelous Marvin by E.J. Finnochio ( my old Horse Vet and now Head of the RI SPCA). He rescued an black lab who had been returned to the shelter 3 times befoer finding a home with Ernie. He and Marvin CO-authored the book - more a child's book, but has been a fund raiser for a few years now. Marvin clelbrated his 10th(?) birthday in july.

FoxChaser

Aug. 4, 2009, 10:06 AM

I hadn't checked in on your thread for awhile either and was thrilled to see the progress!! You have one lovely, lucky house dog :D

To the MAX

Aug. 4, 2009, 11:01 AM

Aw Angel looks so happy! I think that now that she is becoming friends with your other dogs she will advance much, much faster than she has been. My sister rescued our golden while she was down at school and she was so petrified she wouldn't move for days, not even to go to the bathroom. Her tail was always tucked up underneath her and I'm pretty sure she didn't know how to bark. As soon as she came up here and met our dogs, they really gave her a lot of confidence and taught her how to act like a normal dog. She is now a happy, well adjusted pup. Looks like Angel's way on her way! :D

MunchkinsMom

Aug. 4, 2009, 12:23 PM

What is that old saying - "Be careful what you wish for"? I now have a 41 pound puppy in the house!

She decided this morning to join Jenna on my bed (so yes, she has made friends with all the dogs), and a short time later I heard some noise coming from the bedroom, where Angel was gleefully taking the stuffing out of the quilt on the bed! Once again, she heard "No Angel - Bad!" and she got off the bed. Guess I need to teach her what is off-limits.

I did call her to the living room, and gave her a toy, one of her toys from the barn, to show her that toys are acceptable playthings, not the bedding! Guess I have some sewing to do, good thing it was a cheap Wal-Mart quilt.

This morning she expanded her territory in the yard, and went to the far corner to do her business. When I called all the dogs to come in, she just stood and stared, so I went into the house with the rest of the dogs, and within a minute, she appeared on the front steps. It will be so much easier for her and me when she learns how to use the dog door. We are working on that, but it will be a little trickier with her, since anytime that I try to pick her up to bodily move her, she drops to the ground and cowers. All the other dogs we sort of shoved through it once or twice and they got the hang of it.

Thanks for the recommendation for Dr F.'s book, I am familiar with him from my days living in CT, and following some of his posts on EquineSite.

JanM, I can relate to the clothing in the yard via the dog door, my brittany and my beagle were famous for stealing socks and taking them outside. So far this pack only takes their toys outside, which we have to gather up before we mow. Good thing I live in the country, because my front yard is the dog yard, and it will never win any Home and Garden awards for beauty.

Well, I better go pay attention in my conference call meeting.

SevenDogs

Aug. 4, 2009, 04:11 PM

Home and Garden Beauty Awards are waaaaaaaay over-rated!

I wonder if you would have ever dreamed that you would be writing "a short time later I heard some noise coming from the bedroom, where Angel was gleefully taking the stuffing out of the quilt on the bed!"

I absolutely LOVE the first time a a timid animal feels comfortable enough to be a little naughty! ...doesn't necessarily make sewing the quilt back together all that much fun, but you might just have a little bit of a smile on your face while you are doing it.

Congratulations! :yes:

suze

Aug. 4, 2009, 04:22 PM

Geez, gone from the computer for 24 hours & Angel is absolutely integrated into the family. Great updates!

FalseImpression

Aug. 4, 2009, 04:30 PM

Back home after 5 days away... I am delighted to see the progress. Angel was/is so lucky to have found you! Beautiful pictures too.
lol.. this was the first thread I read when I got home!

Jaegermonster

Aug. 4, 2009, 04:45 PM

LOL No my dogs are out in the rain here too and could care less about it. :)
No I'm crying because I reread the thread and it's an amazing story, and because of what you said, -to put it simply- people suck. No dog should ever ever be in the shape that Angel was in when she came to you, afraid of everything and everyone. Would that she could talk to us.

I hope that very soon you will post that she is curled up on the rug at your feet, and we can tell you to hug her for us and she will let you.

I posted that quote on May 18 2009

Well, it would appear as though this day has finally come. And what a happy day it is.
Many cheers for you MM, for all your hard work and not giving up on this dog.
She looks so happy and relaxed in your home with your family. This is wonderful.

Jaegermonster

Aug. 4, 2009, 04:47 PM

MunchkinsMom

Aug. 4, 2009, 05:51 PM

Re the dog door:
maybe she is funny about it now since she just had surgery?

what I have done is put the dog on one side of the door, and get on the other side and hold the door open for them, holding their favorite treat or toy and lure them through. That usually works after a time or two.

Not really sure, I have tried that a few times, might be time to break out the chicken again!

I just got back from the vet's office with Murphy for her checkup, tests, etc just so I can get more Heartguard for her - yikes, another 250.00 bucks out the window! Well, a small part of that was Angel's one dose of Heartguard and one Comfortis pill. Good thing I love these dogs.

However, they all said they loved the pictures and were so surprised and happy as to how well she is doing, and how quickly she has taken to house dog status.

Yes, I will be smiling a little bit as I sew up the comforter this evening. And I hope it is the last thing I have to sew for a while.

Any tips on leash training? First off I need to get a collar that she can't pull her head out of (and I think a choke chain would be overkill here). Maybe one of those martingale dog collars - I have one on Candy, because she can yank her head out of a collar also. The issue with Angel is that the instant she feels any pressure on the collar, she fights it. Unless of course I have to do it with a series of tugs and not a steady pull?