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View Full Version : Frontline Not Working On Farm Dogs?



EqTrainer
Dec. 20, 2008, 10:28 PM
One of my dogs keeps coming in covered in ticks, in spite of being loaded down w/Frontline. Not to mention.. it's winter!

Anything else work better?

mroades
Dec. 20, 2008, 10:35 PM
Frontline quit working here about 6 years ago....I use Advantix. Seems to work very well, just don't get it on the cats

Katy9532
Dec. 20, 2008, 11:00 PM
It does not work on either of the barns that I ride at.

JSwan
Dec. 20, 2008, 11:42 PM
I became displeased with it after picking... I can't remember how many now.. it was over 100 ticks off my beagle.

The vet told me to put it on every 3 weeks.

I did. Still hordes of ticks.

I tried Advantix and it worked but the dogs and cats hang out together (even napping) and I worried a little.

This year ticks started to be bad and then the chickens started to free range. After that... I picked maybe 3 or 4 all year.

That may be my plan from now on - more chickens. They work better than anything.

RHdobes563
Dec. 21, 2008, 12:20 AM
I became displeased with it after picking... I can't remember how many now.. it was over 100 ticks off my beagle.

The vet told me to put it on every 3 weeks.

I did. Still hordes of ticks.

I tried Advantix and it worked but the dogs and cats hang out together (even napping) and I worried a little.

This year ticks started to be bad and then the chickens started to free range. After that... I picked maybe 3 or 4 all year.

That may be my plan from now on - more chickens. They work better than anything.

Would that make them---AdvantCHICKS? :D

kellidahorsegirl
Dec. 21, 2008, 12:26 AM
I use frontline on my cats and dogs (farm pets). They come home covered in ticks all summer long..but they're not all fat and filled with blood. The vet told me that the ticks will still get on them (cuz its not a 'repellent') but when they bite, they get poisoned. So even if the tick is in your house (due to dog brining in) or on your dog, it will die soon cuz its been poisoned.

This made me feel a LITTLE better, but the lil turds are still crawling around and thats gross...even if I KNOW they'll die.

Bluey
Dec. 21, 2008, 12:53 AM
I use Revolution and it seems to work fine for my dog.

SuperSTB
Dec. 21, 2008, 12:56 AM
Would that make them---AdvantCHICKS? :D

Okay- that got ice tea on the keyboard :lol::lol::lol:

Sing Mia Song
Dec. 21, 2008, 10:42 AM
Last year, I went to a seminar at work about pesticide resistance and this came up. It's becoming fairly well known in the industry that fleas (and possibly ticks) in certain regions are developing resistance to one or more of these insecticides. Sometimes switching products helps, although I think it's probably a matter of time before we see resistance to multiple products.

If you are having a problem with resistance, definitely report it to the company, preferably in writing. It'll be a sad day when none of these work.

yellowbritches
Dec. 21, 2008, 10:58 AM
I started using Advantix on Stella when my former roomate's dog developed an alergy to something in Advantix (she gave me her left overs). Worked FAR better than the Frontline had been. In fact, I haven't had to retreat her in months!

birdsong
Dec. 21, 2008, 11:03 AM
I use Revolution and it seems to work fine for my dog.

Ditto...Revolution is the one to use NOW...the rest seem to fail after a few years once the buggers become more resistant.

JSwan
Dec. 21, 2008, 11:31 AM
Would that make them---AdvantCHICKS? :D


Bwwwwaahahahahahaha:lol::lol::lol:

Hey - do you think I can patent that? I'll be rich I tell you, RICH!:D

pj
Dec. 21, 2008, 11:42 AM
A friend called the company to report to them that the front line wasn't working on her dogs. They sent her all new, couple hundred dollars worth and oddly the new batch worked.??

Jumphigh83
Dec. 21, 2008, 12:29 PM
Yeah I got the free stuff from Frontline when I called to tell them that their product wasn't working on my goldens. (never used it..didnt work) I started them on Advantix (be careful around cats it is toxic to them) The very helpful operator told me "you know, it takes a good frost to completely get rid of the outside fleas and ticks that they pick up out side..." " Yeah I know it has been BELOW ZERO HERE FOR A WEEK" duh! Well never went back to Frontline and Advantix seems to be working very well. Good luck.

dalpal
Dec. 21, 2008, 01:14 PM
Yeah, we found a big ass tick in the living room, dead...but it obviously had enjoyed living on my long haired golden for a while. :mad:

I did order Frontline Plus from Equine Mega Store (40.00 for 6 months)...but I also ordered this company's flea/tick oil...love their Para Spray, so hopefully the flea/tick oil will work just as well.

This is why I was hoping we were finally going to have a cold winter.....but instead it's muggy and humid.

http://www.theholistichorse.com/Dogs-Cats.shtml

Dune
Dec. 21, 2008, 01:54 PM
The Frontline is working for mine, but I'm not in a really bad area from ticks. I've been told the same thing about the ticks may be on them but they shouldn't be attached and fat. I would NEVER recommend someone using Advantix if you have cats, it is toxic to them!!!

Brookes
Dec. 21, 2008, 02:31 PM
The only sure thing I have found to work for my setters when we send them out into the fields on trials is the Preventix collars. I have tried every liquid type treatment and none of them worked for me.

I collars are rubber and should be fitted close to the neck. The ticks will jump on but they never bite. We have found a couple crawling around but never any that had attached. The collars say they last around 90 days but I have found that they worked for much longer, closer to 5 months!

Last trial we went to every human came back in and they all had ticks! The dogs, not one! I think I'll slap one on my dogs' handler next time too!

You can get them from vets or some of the larger vet supply companies. They really do work well!

fooler
Dec. 21, 2008, 04:12 PM
Speak to your vet about Promeris.

My dog is a flea-magnet, something my vet agreed with. I had her on Frontline along with 90-day flea+tick collar (changed monthly) and a once monthly flea dip. And she was still covered in fleas. FYI- the 4 barn kitties treated w/ flea collars had only a few fleas - expected of animals living outside in SC.

Tried the Promeris and it worked wonderfully. She is no longer covered in fleas and her coat grew back. Also I continued to use the flea collar and used flea dip to spray her house + straw bedding. Another fact my vet shared - no baths 1 week before or after spot on treatment. The natural oils are necessary for the treatment to work.

BelladonnaLily
Dec. 21, 2008, 05:17 PM
Frontline quit working on our farm dogs as well. By late summer, one of mine would get covered with ticks. What we found that has worked really well has been Preventic collars. They are about $18 at the vet, and we still use Frontline for fleas, and the combination has been great.

farriergodmother
Dec. 21, 2008, 09:59 PM
We switched from frontline to advantix last year. The biggest help was having the trees in the yard sprayed for gypsy moth caterpillars this past spring. We had considerably less ticks this year. We do Lymes vaccines and annual blood tests. Even with all that, we had one dog get Lymes disease and get very sick last week. She's back to normal but it kind of makes me wonder why we bothered.

camohn
Dec. 22, 2008, 09:15 AM
One of my dogs keeps coming in covered in ticks, in spite of being loaded down w/Frontline. Not to mention.. it's winter!

Anything else work better?

Ditto.....we have done better with Advantix
The garlic also helps. Our old Golden Retriever had awful skin allergies that allergy pills and cortisone shots did not help and tried the garlic with brewers yeast from Springtime Labs. That helped everything.........fleas, ticks and skin allergies. The new pup got her garlic all summer as we put in horse feed for the same reason for fly control (it worked moderately well) but the Irish Setter Loooves horse feed and would gobble it up as I was putting it out in the feed pans. After a short while I had a dog is garlic breath and fewer ticks.............

Bluey
Dec. 22, 2008, 09:39 AM
Careful with garlic, it may cause Heinz body anemia if you feed too much of it, enough to do what some say it does.
If you don't feed much, well, no harm then, but also no possible other good either, so why feed it?:confused:

That garlic keeps vampires or fleas or ticks away has been shown by some studies not to be validated.
The U at Davis, CA had one study not long ago about feeding garlic to horses and there was not demonstrable results of it doing anything for flies, ticks or such.

If your dog has less parasites at any one time, garlic didn't seem to be what kept them off.

This is an old article on horses, that also applies to dogs or humans.
No one has demonstrated yet it is not so:

Feeding Garlic - The Great Garlic Debate
Dr. Karen Hayes, DVM, MS, discusses whether or not to feed your horse garlic as a feed supplement or fly repellent.

By Karen Hayes, DVM, MS

It's heartening to see how passionate readers are about the care of their horses--and their garlic!

The toxic element in allium (a family of plants including both garlic and onions) is well known to be a chemical called N-propyl disulfide. By altering an enzyme present within the red blood cell, it depletes the cell of a chemical known as phosphate dehydrogenase (PD), whose job is to protect the cell from natural oxidative damage.

When the PD level gets low enough, the hemoglobin in the cell oxidizes and forms a "bubble" called a Heinz body on the outside of the cell--it's quite distinctive and readily seen under the microscope. The spleen--which acts as a red-cell "bouncer" of sorts--quickly removes the deformed cell from the bloodstream. As more and more red cells are prematurely damaged and removed, as will happen from consistent poisoning with N-propyl disulfide, your horse gradually becomes anemic. This is called Heinz-body anemia.

The "toxic dose" of N-propyl disulfide, which is not well worked out in any species, is the amount thought to cause obvious poisoning, a sort of "9-1-1" situation. Cows are thought to be more sensitive to the toxin than are horses, but in one study published in 1972 in the "Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association," the toxic dose in horses turned out to be considerably less than the 5 grams per kilogram of body weight reported in cows.

Here's what happened. When horses in a pasture dotted with wild onions came down with anemia (low red-blood-cell count), jaundice (increased bile pigments in the blood, causing yellowish discoloration of the gums and whites of the eyes), and reddish-colored urine, investigators decided to find out for sure whether onions had caused these symptoms.

To do so, they fed 1 pound of the onion tops per day to a healthy horse for 3 days, along with his regular feed, then 4 pounds on Day 4. From Day 4 through Day 8, his packed cell volume (or PCV, meaning his red-blood-cell percentage) dropped about 23 percent, from 30 to 23.

The investigators continued to give the horse onion tops on Days 9 and 10; by Day 11, his PCV had dropped to a life-threatening 13--he'd lost almost 60 percent of his red blood cells in 11 days!

Most of us with a rudimentary interest in equine toxicology have no quarrel with this report, but what would've happened to pasture horses if they'd eaten smaller doses of the toxin? Good question--and here's where the controversy comes in.

Some vets say the toxic effects are more gradual and insidious--but still very real--when a lower dose is consumed on a regular basis, resulting in a mild anemia without obvious symptoms. This has been my experience in a practice. I see a handful of cases of Heinz-body anemia every year in horses that grazed on wild onions growing amidst the grass in their pastures, or helped themselves to discarded onions and leeks in the compost pile, or raided the garlic patch in the garden.

No well-designed, formal research has been conducted on the ill effects of lower doses of garlic on horses. But, to be fair, there also hasn't been any well-designed, formal research on the benefits of garlic in horses. For example, I've seen lots of horses reeking of garlic and crawling with flies, though garlic is reputed to be an effective fly repellent.

I've no doubt those of you who are feeding garlic to your horses are doing so because you want only the best for them--the best health and the highest degree of comfort. That's why I feel it's important for you to understand it isn't enough to say garlic is safe just because you haven't seen any ill effects in your garlic-supplemented horse. Depending on the dose, and the frequency and duration of dosing, there could be low-grade deleterious effects, due to red-blood-cell damage that's not enough to cause a 9-1-1 situation, but just enough to cause a mild anemia that might not be outwardly evident. It might affect your horse's stamina, energy level, or resistance to disease.

Until these suspicions are investigated and repudiated, how much risk are you willing to take? Until well-designed, formal research is done on garlic's risks and benefits, specifically in horses, it seems the only safe avenue is the avenue of caution. At the very least, I wanted each of you to make your decisions with benefit of all available information, including longstanding reports from researchers far greater than me, indicating that the popular garlic bulb has a dark side.

REFERENCES

Pierce, K.R., et al., Acute hemolytic anemia caused by wild onion poisoning in horses, "Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association," 1972; pages 160/323 to 327.

Lewis L.D. "Equine Clinical Nutrition," Williams and Wilkins, 1995, page 480.

Kobluk, Ames, and George, "The Horse; Diseases and Clinical Management," Saunders, 1995, page 1,083.

Knight A.P. and Walter R.G. "A Guide To Plant Poisoning Of Animals In North America," Teton NewMedia, 2001, page 186.

Murphy M., "A Field Guide To Common Animal Poisons"; Iowa State University Press, 1996, page 160.

Dr.Hayes is an equine practitioner based in Idaho. She's a frequent contributor to Horse & Rider magazine and EquiSearch.

This article first appeared in the November 2001 issue of Horse & Rider magazine. "---

Jumphigh83
Dec. 22, 2008, 10:18 AM
My goldens' skin has been 100% dermatitis/hot spot free since switching them to Lamb and rice dog food and controlling the fleas/ticks on them.
Re:Cats and Advantix..very true it is toxic to them but my vet says keep them apart (like mine will all sleep in a pile dogs/cat)for twenty four hours and there has not been a problem for my animals.

Caitlynsmom
Dec. 22, 2008, 10:33 AM
I switched to Advantage on my dogs and cats for fleas
and it worked well.

gammillgirl
Dec. 22, 2008, 10:39 AM
I too have used Frontline for years. My German Shepherd came up lame in the hind, I immediately took him to the vet for x-rays, fearing his hips. The vet was concerned about the lymph nodes, did a tick titer (sp) and he had LYME DIESEASE.