PDA

View Full Version : Dobermans as farm dogs?



BearRock
Dec. 20, 2008, 08:12 PM
I've been looking through past threads but have only found bits and pieces of information as most of them are about farm dogs in general.

So...tell me about your experiences with Dobermans :D The good, the bad, the ugly, anything! My family is looking for a dog for our farm, here are the specs:

1. Good watchdog
2. Big enough to not be stolen by coyotes
3. Not over 100lbs
4. Sheds very little
5. Intelligent
6. Friendly

Any info is well appreciated!

HydroPHILE
Dec. 20, 2008, 08:26 PM
I would not consider Doberman Pinschers as farm dogs....at all. They are a great and intelligent breed and they are great at being protective of their home and owner; however, they are not the dog for everyone, need obedience training from the get go or they will be bouncing off the walls, and do not tolerate cold weather.

My dobermans also HATED horses because they thought when the horses were taking a treat...they were attacking me.

I love dobermans, and I have trained and owned dobermans, and I do not think they make good typical farm dogs.

BearRock
Dec. 20, 2008, 08:29 PM
Just to clarify, by farm dog I mean a dog that has access to about 50 acres of field. We don't have horses at home nor do we have the facilities. :)

Thanks for your input!

ETA: However, there is a possibility that my horses will move home in the future, and the dog would take visits to the barn I currently board at.

Bluey
Dec. 20, 2008, 08:37 PM
Our doberman worked cattle with us, made a right nice hand, although it didn't have the herding instincts of a border collie.

Any dog will be what you make of it.
The question with dobies is that they are companion dogs, that thrive being with you most of the time and love living in the house, not the barn.

Believe it or not, there are more problems with shy dobies than aggressive ones, other than aggressive because they are shy and cornered by well intentioned pushy kids wanting to see the dogie, that is trying to get away.
Any dog handler will tell you that today, dobies tend to be wimpy, of a more vacillating temperament than many other dogs.
Ours was a great obedience dog and therapy dog for nursing home visits.:)

Do you really need a barn dog, or a dog that you will train well and can go with you anyplace, including the barn?

Many, many people like the idea of a dog, but once reality sets in and they see how much time and energy taking care, training, exercising and living with a dog, that requires more than turning it on and off at will is, they have second thoughts.

Good that you are giving this serious consideration, before getting a dog.:yes:

MistyBlue
Dec. 20, 2008, 08:45 PM
Standard Poodle...barn dog extraordinaire! Fits your criteria to a T except for "sheds very little"...they actually don't shed at all. (even better) Excessively easy to train, very people oriented, excellent watch dogs, excellent vermin dogs (will get rid of everything from rats to possums), not known for roaming or wandering, not livestock chasers, will chase off coyotes...can't say enough good things about the breed as farm dogs. Don't be fooled by the typical show clips they give some of them...no need to make your own Standard look stupid. You can close clip them, leave them with a medium coat, have fun and give them a mohawk. :winkgrin:
It's my all time fave dog..and I'm definitely a big dog person. There's nothing foofy or wimpy about a big poodle.
Here's one with a normal clip:
http://www.westkentuckyrescue.com/e_tn_poodles/SmStandard-after-md.jpg
And here's a bunch in a variety of colors:
http://www.greatdogsite.com/watermark/Standard%20Poodle-all-all-1209334152.jpg

BearRock
Dec. 20, 2008, 08:46 PM
Do you really need a barn dog, or a dog that you will train well and can go with you anyplace, including the barn?

The latter, definitely, as horses are in the plan somewhere down the road but we'd like to get a dog now.

My mom stays at home and my dad works from home, so there isn't an issue of the dog being alone all day. I'm planning to go to university next year but will live at home, and I'll be the one to take the dog to puppy school, etc.

Again, in terms of the responsibility - I don't think that will be an issue. We're pretty active and have the best interests of a puppy in mind. :)

Thanks again!

exvet
Dec. 20, 2008, 08:58 PM
We have had a few dobermans over the years and all were great around the horses, other dogs and definitely great watch dogs - very loyal and very easy to train. They do not tolerate extremes in weather very well and are definitely house dogs as a result (at least mine are). Mine (currently I have one female) has three different jackets - her pleather jacket, her polar fleece jacket and her down jacket - all to withstand the cold of Arizona :lol: I love dobermans and will always have at least one but the true farm dogs here are the JRTs (2 terrors) and corgi that we also have.

Oh and about the shedding. I have yet to have a doberman that doesn't leave half of itself on its many beds we have around the place (inside and outside) for his/her highness.

vahunter
Dec. 20, 2008, 09:07 PM
I have had many (7-8) dobes on my farm. Currently have 2 dobes. People seem to l-o-v-e dobes or they don't. If you love them, you're hooked. Mine have been: very high energy, love to run (then come in & crash in thier dog beds), Love to go on trail walks, great with horses (one licks my horse's face (the horse puts his head down so the dobe can lick him.)) Mine bark but not a people. Strangers always look twice & ask about them - so they put off strangers. They are very sensitive, loyal, and adore people. You need to be the boss with them. Don't ever let them play bite as puppies. They do hate the rain & hate the cold. There are doberman rescue leagues around where you can adopt one - look for them on petfinder.com. I have adopted 2 mature dobes. Another quirk with dobes is you definitely can not have 2 male dobes in the same house - no matter how sweet and docile they are, the males will end up attacking each other. good luck !

asb_own_me
Dec. 20, 2008, 09:16 PM
I have three Dobies....our youngest is the best "farm dog". My oldest feels the need to put everything in her mouth, so then she gets sick in the middle of the night, and the middle gal has a super high prey drive that would cause her to leave, shall we say, ABRUPTLY, should a bunny/squirrel/small furry critter dash by. The youngest doesn't want to be far away so he does great. They are super intelligent, very loyal, protective and most have an exceptionally well developed sense of humor. They are not dogs that are equipped to live outside, though. They don't have enough coat and they need to be with their people. Mine all HATE the rain, too.

Varying degrees of success with the horses. The oldest could care less, the middle one wants to lick their faces whether or not they want to be licked, and the youngest has learned to respect their size and stay away from legs!

vahunter
Dec. 20, 2008, 09:29 PM
Oh, all mine have needed invisible fencing - they will take off. They are simple to train to invisible fencing cause they are so sensitive. I trained mine to know when I take the collar off and give them a key word, they can go through the gate to the rest of the farm for a walk or a trail ride.

Brydelle Farm
Dec. 20, 2008, 09:38 PM
I love dobies!! I had two growing up on my parents farm, they were extremely obedient and great with the horses. No invisible fencing needed, never ran off, etc. I miss them terribly!!

jengersnap
Dec. 20, 2008, 09:49 PM
I've three dogs, two being dobes. One is a female 7 year old fawn, and she rules the pack. The other is a 6 year old black and tan male. The female has "blue dobe syndrome", a genetic condition linked with her unusual fawn/isabella brown coat color that is most often seen in the blue coat color but also appears in her's with a little less frequency. Because of this, she gets a very sparse winter coat and lives in her blankies about half the year up here in Canada. Poor kid, but she loves her wardrobe of sheets, raincoats, and foal blankets.

The male I wonder sometimes about his sensitivity as he will bound through snow drifts and only show a chill after extreme cold exposure. He's my boy through and through, and as soon as I grab my shoes he's at the door doing an excited in-place prance, often with snappy teeth, to go wherever I go. He is off leash, uncollared (rubs his neck something awful) and absolutely obedient, but I put my time and effort into his training and he was always oriented on me above any other being. Both are very aware of the horses when we're out with them and stay clear of kicking range. Both are trained to chase off coyotes, and neither challenge their acre fenced backyard when left alone. Few visitors that do not know them are brave enough to come up on the porch, particularly if we're not home as they lunge against the glass doors and have deep toothy barks. But they happily share the bed, share their affection and love their people. The fawn is trying to get me to play fetch at the moment, and the black/tan has commendeered my bed, curled up against my pillow. Typical dobes. :yes:

The kids

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p262/jengersnaps/April%202008/Mom%20Visit/fdee1203.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p262/jengersnaps/May%202008/61.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p262/jengersnaps/May%202008/60.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p262/jengersnaps/May%202008/62.jpg

HydroPHILE
Dec. 20, 2008, 09:52 PM
and the dog would take visits to the barn I currently board at.

Caution, many people still put a bad connotation on dobermans, and the doberman may not be welcomed at the barn where you currently board.

BearRock
Dec. 20, 2008, 09:54 PM
Jengersnap, I sent you a PM!

Thanks everyone so far, I'm continuing with my research. ;)

One more question: How are they in terms of people visiting their homes? I know it varies from dog to dog but are they generally reserved, or could they care less?

jengersnap
Dec. 20, 2008, 10:06 PM
One would litterally lick a burgular, once you swallow your nerves to her jumping up at the glass and howling like a banshee to get in the door. The other, he's very reserved and standoffish until he first is introduced as "okay", and second decides he likes you. The few he doesn't warm up to he won't hurt with us around, but he'll hang back with me or my husband and kind of watch what that person is doing. Protective.

Sugarbrook
Dec. 20, 2008, 10:23 PM
I have had two dobermans. Bart, our first was of the guard dog breeding. He was all the man. When I took my kids with me (and Bart) to the horse shows Bart guarded the tack stall and guarded us. He was fine to take along and have others pet, but please dont raise your arms up and act like you might hurt myself or the girls. We loved loved loved him. He was perfect around the horses, actually never bothered them at all. He was huge, at his prime was about 120 lbs. His heart was not good in his later years, and he died at my feet, at the barn at age 10. I could not even look at another dog for 2 years.

Then came Winston. He was just lovely. So beautiful and was shown in breed. He came from all International champions.
But as far as a guard dog, or a dog to bark, or to protect...............NOPE!!!! He was a lover. And a crotch dog. He could stand and look the part, but put your hand out and all he wanted to do was be petted. He died at age 12. I never looked back.

As far as shedding goes, they shed a lot. Black hair everywhere. Hyper? Nope. But then we have 70 acres and a hard working farm. When they come in the house they were ready to be quiet. I never remember either of them being hyper at all.

I still moon over the dobermans. I watch Westminister and root them on. A good looking shepard or doberman are hard to beat.

Now, the standard poodle. I had one. Loved her. No shedding. Had to keep her groomed, but such a happy people dog. Never bothered the horses, and was super easy to live with around the barn. And she slept on my kids bed at night. Not hyper at all, but then again i say, we had a farm and my dogs are tired at night.

actcasual
Dec. 20, 2008, 10:24 PM
And by the end I despised the poor dogs.
One was super insecure and had bitten people, including a lesson kid. One was perpetually underweight. They all got hysterical when a horse got longed, barking and leaping at the gate to the indoor. If a horse ran, they chased it. The horse I rode (not mine, or there would have been hell to pay) got its tail ripped out by the dogs chasing \ -- while someone was leading it!
And they liked to kill stuff. All but one of the barn cats got it. The survivor came out only after dark when the dogs had left for the day. Groundhogs might not be good for horses, but Dobermans tossing groundhogs in the air and shaking them seems bad for business.
Obviously any dog is a reflection of its owner, but I wouldn't even consider having a Doberman around a barn again.

actcasual
Dec. 20, 2008, 10:28 PM
Then came Winston. He was just lovely. So beautiful and was shown in breed. He came from all International champions.
But as far as a guard dog, or a dog to bark, or to protect...............NOPE!!!! He was a lover. And a crotch dog.

I'd forgotten that part.
Lots of uncomfortable looks from people new to the barn who were greeted with a snout to the crotch. Ah, the memories.

PhoenixFarm
Dec. 20, 2008, 10:51 PM
Long time Dobe person here.

Mine have all been good barn dogs in the way that you describe it, but they definately don't do the weather very well, esp. cold and wet, so do not suit as living-in-the-barn dogs.

My last one, Warlock, passed away on Christmas Eve 2006. He was, literally, the perfect dog. Friendly, funny, great with dogs and people, but could look protective enough to keep marginal folks away. The only thing he couldn't handle was spectating cross-country. He was a dressage and show jumping dog.:winkgrin:

My current dobe, Odin, is great in a lot of ways, but he is definately more insecure than Warlock with things like loud, unexpected noises or movements--especially when perfromed by strangers. I am working constantly with him in this regard, and we've had some improvement. But I don't think he'll ever be as trustworthy as Warlock. :sadsmile:

I love these dogs. Love them, love them, love them. But, they aren't a dog for just anybody. FWIW, my vet has a standard poodle, and he swears it's the best farm dog he's ever had.

Griffyn
Dec. 20, 2008, 10:56 PM
I will painfully weigh in. I have had dobermans and doberman crosses for over 20 years. I put my best friend, Search and Rescue partner and barn dog to sleep last week. He is the last of the "tribe". A barn owner that I boarded with also has a doberman, and she is superb. My guy was pretty high drive, so he was "busy". I did have 2 males in the same house, but it was an uneasy truce, it worked because I put alot of work into it. Griffyn was appropriate around the horses after a time. He did not spend his early years with them. With strangers he had very good discretion, being watchful, but not overly concerned, unless something was "off". They do have some genetic trouble, and they vary WIDELY in temperament. You must know the breeder and do your homework, but dobermans generally are terrific companions. The downside is that they leave a hole in your heart forever when they go. Dobestar's Party of One, "Griffyn"-- it isnt Christmas without you. Sorry to go on so- but if they make your heart sing, do your homework, and GO FOR IT.

Windswept Stable
Dec. 20, 2008, 11:08 PM
My daughter brought home a doberman last year. It instantly killed 2 of my barn cats. The remaining cats were terrified and spent every waking moment trying to stay away from the dog. Many of these dogs have very high prey instincts and you can not train it out of them.

Then the dog attacked one of my ponies, when my other daughter was on it. Pony did ok after a round of antibiotics.Daughter was fine also.

Got rid of the dog the next day. The dog was nice to people and to other dogs, but I could never trust a dog that kills cats and attacks horses.

Will never have another one.

Dobilover
Dec. 20, 2008, 11:12 PM
And by the end I despised the poor dogs.
One was super insecure and had bitten people, including a lesson kid. One was perpetually underweight. They all got hysterical when a horse got longed, barking and leaping at the gate to the indoor. If a horse ran, they chased it. The horse I rode (not mine, or there would have been hell to pay) got its tail ripped out by the dogs chasing \ -- while someone was leading it!
And they liked to kill stuff. All but one of the barn cats got it. The survivor came out only after dark when the dogs had left for the day. Groundhogs might not be good for horses, but Dobermans tossing groundhogs in the air and shaking them seems bad for business.
Obviously any dog is a reflection of its owner, but I wouldn't even consider having a Doberman around a barn again.

Dogs are indeed a reflection of their owners and these dobermans that you described unfortunately suffered from lack of leadership. As my screen name implies, I am indeed a dobilover and have been owned by this breed for over 15 years. My dogs would never dream of attacking a horse or barking at anyone that I'd welcomed onto my property. This is a breed that needs clear leadership. Any dog (including typical farm breeds such as aussies or terriers) can resort to such behavior without consistent training. Double that propensity in dogs that have not been spayed or neutered. Some people believe that giving a dog plenty of acreage to romp around should satisfy the dog's needs, but it's not enough. Dogs without clear direction will choose their own way, and this is usually not what their humans would want. I just ask that you keep an open mind to the breed, and not judge them as a whole based on two dogs who's owners were unable to provide the discipline they needed.

carp
Dec. 20, 2008, 11:54 PM
My experience with them is that they vary widely in health and neurosis level; you want to be careful which breeder you buy from. Unfortunately a while back dobes were the fashionable breed among dumb trash dog owners, just like pitbulls are now. There was a lot of inappropriate breeding. Dobes are in the middle range as far as intelligence. Most of the ones I've known have been very loyal. A lot are also a bit timid, which increases the chances of fright bite. Because of the latter factor, I wouldn't recommend a doberman for for inexperienced dog owners. I especially wouldn't recommend a doberman for an inexperienced dog owner who gets lot of visitors.

RHdobes563
Dec. 21, 2008, 01:26 AM
Another quirk with dobes is you definitely can not have 2 male dobes in the same house - no matter how sweet and docile they are, the males will end up attacking each other. good luck !

The breed is known for having same-sex aggressiveness. MANY breeds of dogs have this; it's not a fault, it's a reality. That being said, I had 7 dogs at one time---4 male Dobermans, 1 male Peekapoo, 1 female Doberman, and 1 female Sheltie.

Three of the male Dobes and the male Peekapoo got along wonderfully---NEVER a serious squabble among them, NO injuries, and they commonly slept together. The fourth male (a red), however, was a "typical" male---he hated the other male dogs and especially Moose, the sweetest boy ever. It was funny, though. Garnet would start the fights, but Moose would finish them, usually by pinning Garnet to the ground. I kept Garnet because my female Doberman adored him and because he had enough issues to make him very difficult to place.

My oldest and first Doberman, Dante', LOVED my horses and vise versa. He would go along on trail rides, and the horse I was riding seemed more confident and content with another 'animal' along. (Dante' was actually too intelligent to be a dog, but he posed as one in real life. The bestest dog EVER!)

Some say females Dobermans get along, but my female Doberman hated all the other female Dobes that I rescued and placed. She put up with my Sheltie, because as a Sheltie breeder told me, 'Shelties don't tend to want to be alpha.'

Currently, I have a black/rust Doberman who came to me with issues. (You HAVE to be prepared to be alpha, not matter what it takes.) Jack would be a good trail dog, too, if it were so freaking cold right now to 'train' him. I also have a fawn female, sweeter than sweet to people and other dogs, but Tuppence is a runner and can't be trusted off leash. She also has an EXTREMELY high prey drive, but she's learned that the house kitties are NOT hairy dog treats!

Tuppence was purchased along with her sister as a puppy by her previous owner. As they matured, her sister starting picking on her, and the owner decided it would be best to rehome Tuppence, which is how I got her. Jack is also a re-homed dog/Katrina dog. I got him from the young man who adopted him after the hurricane, and I figured I was his fourth or fifth home when I got him at 1 1/2 years of age.

I LOVE Dobermans, but they aren't for everyone, and they MIGHT or might NOT make good "farm" dogs. Funny thing is, if the breed didn't exist, I would have a Standard Poodle. They have the most similarities to what I like about my Dobermans.

Bluey
Dec. 21, 2008, 01:36 AM
You may want to check with your home insurance.
Some have exclusions for several dog breeds, dobermans one of them.:eek:

Poodles make fine dogs for anything you want, but you need to groom them regularly or have a professional groomer do that, best every few weeks.
Even then, as farm dogs, every little burr will hang on their hair and some are terrible to get out.
As mostly house and car dogs, they are great dogs.

Here is one of our old dobies and the boss of the dogs here at that time, a toy poodle.
Both were obedience dogs:

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a298/Robintoo/Scan092April012008.jpg?t=1229841077

We quit having dobies for several reasons, one that you at that time could not find a breeder that would sell a dog without cropped ears and as the bad press was making the breed a liability.
If something were ever to happen, the breed they were would have been against us, even if it was not the dog's fault, just as today if a pit bull happens to knock someone down playing they will say it was attacking them.:(
When you have a business and people coming and going, you have a different level of liability exposure and can't just have loose dogs around, especially those people are afraid of, with or without reason.

As I said, ask your insurance agent also about how your insurance reads as far as owning dogs.
Some counties even make you carry special insurance for certain breeds, dobies generally included.

WaningMoon
Dec. 21, 2008, 08:30 AM
I will always own at least one Doberman. I have had at least one since 1979. At the moment I have three, two are rescues. The other one is my partner and best friend. I am disabled with a spine condition that can at times greatly limit my life. She will retrieve any I ask her to get that she knows the name for. Telephone, flashlight, etc. She steadies me as I climb the stairs.

When married I ran a dairy farm with my husband. We had over 400 acres. I have never, ever had one that would run off as someone said. For gods sakes I can't get any of them to stay away from me for 5 minutes. I have had many breeds of dogs and have never had one who was so much interested in being by your side than the Doberman.

Never had one that I had any problems with around other animals like I did my shepards and huskies. I could not keep chickens or ducks or lambs with them. The Dobes seem to love all my animals and I often find them cuddling amongst the blankets on my bed with the cats. I did have a rescue one who had been a chicken and cat killer but they are soooo easily trained that that was only a problem for a very short time. The dog qucikly learned to stay while chickens ran all about him with no problem.

Weather- oh, now there can be a problem. IF I don't follow them right off the porch with all this snow they will pee right there. They do their business and then its right back in the house, even in the summer, they want to be in here with me constantly. One time we were outside working on the car in the rain as we had to go somewhere and it would not start. Hannah decided to come out and join us. It was pouring out. They hate the rain. She took a look at the car and then leaped right up onto the engine beneath the hood so it would shelter her from the rain drops. There is NO limit to what they will do to get out of the weather. IT is - 10 here right now and they are upstairs all tucked in bed as yet.

I do not lock my doors, no need to. Thanks to all the talk of how mean and vicious they are do to some indescriminate breeding, no one is going to come in. Ppl who know us just walk right in and this is the preferred Dobe way. It has been very obvious to me that is someone knocks first it seems to be a clue to them that this is someone we don't know. Then they all rush to the door and put on their best show. If we are not home though even ppl we do know are not let in, other than my grown children who they welcome anytime.

I do have to watch what I say in fornt of them. Like if I am going to go to the post office or store I ahd just better keep that to myself unless I plan on taking the crew with me as once they hear I am leaving they are all by the door and ready to go. Even in the cold weather if I am going out for a walk they wish to go and will put aside their dislike of the cold to be able to go along. They just run and leap more to keep warm from what I've seen.

They all seem to ahve a weird quirk or two. One will go around the house and pick up any change he can find and is constantly running around the house jingling because of it. I had one who evertime I left the house she would find the last thing I touched before I left and would tear it to shreds. I learned to touch the refrigerator each time I left once I realized that was what was going on and never agtain had a problem. They can chew and musst be given something that is okay to chew. I have had great success with the Nylabone. I have one here now that is over 20 yrs old, unbelievably and is still only half gone. That is quite a testament to the company I think and their product. I have not a clue why they would chew on such a thing, no smell, just a hunk of nylon, but they love them. And they love their ropes too that we get them.

They certanly do shed, and all the time. All my blankets look like they have thousands of short hairs all over them.

They are very tuned in to you. They know when you are sad and when you are happy and respond accordingly. I have never found a smarter dog, ever.I feel their very best quality as a farm dog is the fact that they won't run off. In thirty yrs I have never had one run off.

I do feel it vital to train your dog. I find it just as important to buy from a responsible breeder who is only breeding the best to the best. Personally I really like Kimbertal Kennel in Kimberton , Pa. EVERY dog listed on my dogs pedigree is champion titled with many int.champions. They all have several other titles as well. There are too many ppl out there indescriminately breeding aggressive dogs. Dobes are not supposed to be an aggressive dog and in the show ring any aggressive dogs are immediately dismissed.

I think one would make you a wonderful farm dog. I wouldn't want to keep any dog in the barn though, a dog needs to be part of the family, any dog does. IF you plan to keep a dog in a barn then you need to keep a human there too.

Here is a favorite old pic of one of my Kimbertal females and my daughter. And one of one with a baby pygmy goat.

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p235/Born2Bloom/photos%20taken%20at%20home/hannahandleah.jpg


http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p235/Born2Bloom/horses/hannah.jpg

WaningMoon
Dec. 21, 2008, 08:39 AM
I have had many (7-8) dobes on my farm. Currently have 2 dobes. People seem to l-o-v-e dobes or they don't. If you love them, you're hooked. Mine have been: very high energy, love to run (then come in & crash in thier dog beds), Love to go on trail walks, great with horses (one licks my horse's face (the horse puts his head down so the dobe can lick him.)) Mine bark but not a people. Strangers always look twice & ask about them - so they put off strangers. They are very sensitive, loyal, and adore people. You need to be the boss with them. Don't ever let them play bite as puppies. They do hate the rain & hate the cold. There are doberman rescue leagues around where you can adopt one - look for them on petfinder.com. I have adopted 2 mature dobes. Another quirk with dobes is you definitely can not have 2 male dobes in the same house - no matter how sweet and docile they are, the males will end up attacking each other. good luck !

I ahve had two males here now for 4 yrs and not one single problem at all. The breeder where I got my last one has five unneutered males living with her in her house and also no problem. It depends on how well the dog was bred. And what it has been taught.

Bluey
Dec. 21, 2008, 09:01 AM
On dogs shedding, many moons ago, a vet explained that short haired dogs generally don't have undercoat, so you don't have that kind of shedding.
They do have guard hairs, the top coat that is long in long coated breeds and short in so many others.
That kind of hair grows at the same rate, so a short haired dog will grow those little short hairs and shed them at many times the rate of another dog with long hair, that the guard hairs will grow and grow and grow for six months before they shed them.

So, you have one reason dogs with short hairs do shed so much more guard hairs, just because they are so much shorter, given that both have close to the same rate of growth.

Now, there are other reasons to shed more or less, like hormonal changes or problems, but that can affect any dog with any kind of hair.

There are some breeds that their guard hairs are a little bit different, like poodles, komodors and puli, where their hair grows and grows and grows into curls that you can manage as cords, or keep them groomed short, as we do with poodles.

Then there are some terriers that have stiff guard hairs that are best managed by stripping or also trimming, as snauzers are.

Some short haired breds look like they shed more than normal, like dalmatians, that their blankets tend to look like it snowed on them.
They do shed very much, but also the white hairs show that much more than the black ones of most dobies.;)

pj
Dec. 21, 2008, 11:34 AM
I've had only two dobies, both males, and both wonderful dogs. I personally don't care if my dogs have a single ch. in their background (although both of these had many) but I look for obedince titles, tracking, etc.
Both of my males were excellent dogs with horses, cats, any other animals that lived here. Neither EVER left the place unless they were with us. They didn't want to. Both did tend to be protective but under control with only a word, but they were well trained from puppyhood. Both had wonderful wonderful senses of humor. One of ours was a blk and tan, the other red. We lost the red to cancer when he was only seven. Both were HIGH energy dogs and both would get cold easily so wore sweaters or coats when called for. All in all I highly recommend the Dobies to anyone who has the time, knowledge and will to train a pup but as others have said they are not for everyone. A weak or wishy washy owner and they'll be ruling the roost. They need a firm but FAIR owner. If possible it's a good idea to meet the parents of a pup you are interested in. See how you like them.

yellowbritches
Dec. 21, 2008, 11:59 AM
I don't have near the experience with dobies that others here do, but I will reiterate that they are HIGH energy, and that you have to be prepared for this. Any dog that is high energy is going to need to have a good outlet (both physically and mentally) for all of it, so be prepared to quickly install some great obedience, and take advantage of the 50 acres every day (or a couple of times a day).

I had the privledge/misfortune of living with a dobie for a few months over the summer. He was a young guy, ridiculously sweet and (as some one mentioned) quite the comedian. Unfortunately, the girl who owned him (a roommate), liked the IDEA of a big, beautiful dog, but didn't so much care for the responsibility of a high energy young dog (strange to me, considering he was not her first dobie). She much prefered partying to getting the poor guy out a few times a day, and he spent most of his time locked in her room. :mad: The other roommate and I tried to spend some time with him in the evenings after work, but by that point he was so crazed for freedom and an outlet for his energy, he was often too much for she and I to deal with (and my poor dog HATED him because of his intensity). Very sad, and so not what he deserved. :(

So, if you go the dobie road, be prepared to give it LOTS of activity and things to do to keep him stimulated and happy. :yes:

dressagediosa
Dec. 21, 2008, 12:38 PM
I've never owned one, but I can tell you that I taught at a barn where the owner had a Dobe. The first day I came to teach, I pulled in the driveway, and the dog came bounding over to my car barking. I would later learn that the dog was wonderful, a sweet, gentle boy who was respectful and well-trained, but as he circled my little car, all I could think of was his TEETH! :) I didn't move an inch until the owner came out and reassured me the dog was a perfect gentleman.

If I could handle a dog in my life right now, I'd definitely consider a Doberman, purely for the security value. Ain't NOone gonna wreck havoc on my farm with a big, scary looking dog on the prowl!

HydroPHILE
Dec. 21, 2008, 12:53 PM
I think the overall consensus is that any dog can be a "farm dog." It depends on the DOG...not the breed. Dobermans are great dogs, but they're not for everyone. Some make good farm dogs. Some don't. Whomever it was that said their genetic and neurosis levels vary greatly was correct.

If you don't choose a rescue (a doberman rescue that knows the ins and outs of a doberman), choose a REPUTABLE Doberman breeder.

You will want a Doberman breeder who shows their dogs or works their dogs, does all genetic and health testing, doesn't breed the "Z" factor or albino dobermans, doesn't breed "king size" or "Warlock" dobermans, doesn't breed for color, breeds dogs only of sound temperament, can offer you references of satisfied owners of her dogs, etc. You will want to take the time to train the doberman as well, and a good breeder will approve or deny you to purchase one of their dogs. A good breeder of dobies will be highly selective and sell her dobermans to pet homes with a spay and neuter clause and stand behind her dobermans' temperaments and health 100%.

It's also a common misconception that you have to train your Doberman to be protective. Dobermans are naturally protective of their home and of their family so anyone that says "easily trained to be protective" or "trained to be protective" is bollocks.

Foxtrot's
Dec. 21, 2008, 01:01 PM
I've always wanted another dobe after two I grew up with. Then we were given one by a relative (to protect the kids when Clifford Olson was on the loose). This was a poorly bred, unsteady dog and impossible to relax with. With strangers he always had a lip curled, with the kids he was fanatically jealous, he never learned to be around the horses.
He was diagnosed with wobbler syndrome and put down at two and a half years.

It all boils down to the individual - know the breeder and bloodlines. Some are the most wonderful, intuitive dogs, others pretty tough to deal with.

BlueEyedSorrel
Dec. 21, 2008, 01:03 PM
I'm late to the party but I'll weigh in.

My family had a blue female dobie when I was a kid. My parents really did their homework and got her from a longtime breeder who competed all his breeding stock in schutzhund competition. His goal was producing stable working dogs and trainable family pets, not guard dogs. As others have mentioned, the difference between a dog from a good breeder and a backyard breeder is night and day.

Mandy was a lovely dog, polite, obedient, well mannered. She was very attached to anyone she perceived as part of her family, but a bit aloof to guests. She really just liked to be in the background, following my parents around as they did yard work but not really in the way either. She was tolerant of children, cats and other animals. We didn't have the horses at the time, but the neighbors had various lifestock and she never tried to chase anything.

The negatives, which a lot of others have mentioned, were that she did have hypothyroidism (a breed problem, even in well bred animals) and "blue dobe syndrome." Also, given the short hair, dobes really should be indoor dogs. The only other negative is that dobes, like a lot of big dogs, just don't live long enough. Mandy made it to 12, and she was an OLD 12 when we had to let her go. Other than an aunt's funeral, that was the only time in my life I've ever seen my father cry.

BES

RHdobes563
Dec. 21, 2008, 02:50 PM
We quit having dobies for several reasons, one that you at that time could not find a breeder that would sell a dog without cropped ears and as the bad press was making the breed a liability.

If something were ever to happen, the breed they were would have been against us, even if it was not the dog's fault, just as today if a pit bull happens to knock someone down playing they will say it was attacking them.

At obedience class, a Miniature Schnauzer attacked my Doberman Jack as it came into the building. Even though my dog was not at fault, he DID snarl/lunge back. I instantly yelled at Jack and corrected him (into a sit/stay). I apologized to the person I had been talking to, citing exactly the reasons mentioned above. She understood. (By the way, the Miniature Schnauzer was very aggressive towards all the dogs in the class.)

I had an online discussion with some reputable Doberman breeders. Personally, I didn't want a puppy with cropped ears, as the care of them until they stand on their own is more than I can depend upon myself to do. Second, the current extreme show crop to me is VERY unattractive---the tips of the ears flop over as the dogs are being gaited.

Most of my Dobermans have been uncropped/docked. They were rescues and came that way. My Garnet was cropped/docked (another rescue), and his ears had more "bell" to them, so they stood better. Peter, my last obedience dog, was totally natural (another rescue). Even though he looked like a 'hound dog', I adored his long tail as he loved to do obedience---he was either wagging as he moved in the ring, or it was pounding on the floor as he was doing a long sit. It's my dream to own another all natural Doberman.

Some say if the Dobermans aren't cropped, they don't look like Dobermans. I beg to differ. Although some of my dogs have held their ears in a peculiar way, like this-- http://www.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=12463260 ---my Dante' and my Tuppence held/hold their ears in a gorgeous, alert expression. There was/is no doubt that they were Doberman Pinschers.

Just a note: A couple of the large, commercial Doberman breeders BUY their breeding stock WITH the titles already earned by the PREVIOUS owners. They don't show their own puppies themselves. And sometimes earned conformation titles come when the competition is not the best---the dog could be the best of a mediocre bunch.

Lecture over. :)

Mallard
Dec. 21, 2008, 06:27 PM
I have also been owned by Dobies for many years.
Went nearly 2 years without one and just couldn't stand it. Got another one.
They are wonderful dogs and once you have been owned by one you will always need one in your life.

If you have never had a dog, I would not consider getting a Dobe as your first dog.
They are just much too smart for first-time dog owners.

They need lots of human companionship. They love to lean on you.
They need lots and lots of exercise.
They are naturally protective...this can be intimidating to visitors to your home, which is another reason they need an experienced dog owner.

And has already been pointed out...they do shed.
They need their own wardrobe...rain coat, winter coat.
They need their own bed with a down filled blanket for the cold winter nights.
They smile when they have been naughty. Boy...do they smile!

citydog
Dec. 21, 2008, 07:08 PM
I think the overall consensus is that any dog can be a "farm dog." It depends on the DOG...not the breed. Dobermans are great dogs, but they're not for everyone. Some make good farm dogs. Some don't. Whomever it was that said their genetic and neurosis levels vary greatly was correct.

If you don't choose a rescue (a doberman rescue that knows the ins and outs of a doberman), choose a REPUTABLE Doberman breeder.

You will want a Doberman breeder who shows their dogs or works their dogs, does all genetic and health testing, doesn't breed the "Z" factor or albino dobermans, doesn't breed "king size" or "Warlock" dobermans, doesn't breed for color, breeds dogs only of sound temperament, can offer you references of satisfied owners of her dogs, etc. You will want to take the time to train the doberman as well, and a good breeder will approve or deny you to purchase one of their dogs. A good breeder of dobies will be highly selective and sell her dobermans to pet homes with a spay and neuter clause and stand behind her dobermans' temperaments and health 100%.


All excellent advice and worth repeating. :yes:

Although Dobes aren't "my" breed (I've got Belgians and Border Collies), I was *very* active in Dobie rescue for some years and have had many as training clients. There is a W I D E variety of type, temperament and quality out there. Either work with an established rescue or do a *lot* of homework to find a breeder. They are large, smart, active dogs who need their person to *do* something with them. Some are really hard, pushy working dogs, and some are as soft and un-drivey as can be. And everything in between.

Many insurance companies won't offer you renters' or homeowners' insurance if you have a Dobe, so that's something to look into.

We just put our one Dobe down in September. :sadsmile: Easiest, sweetest temperament and best natural watchdog of any breed I've ever had. Great with cats, kids, horses and livestock. Had many health problems (my vet actually commented once that Dobermans were one breed that, from a health perspective, she wouldn't mind seeing die out), and was extremely sensitive to cold and damp.

The right one could be exactly what you're looking for. The wrong one, an absolute nightmare.

lesson junkie
Dec. 21, 2008, 10:18 PM
I have a Dobe who loves the farm dog life. He is great with the 3 horses and 10 cats and other 6 dogs. His favorite jobs are trail rides and escorting the manure spreader. He also likes going to the feed store where he shop lifts pig ears out of the boxes on the floor. He usually gets 2 so he can share with the shop Lab.

Our farm is pretty remote, and I'm often here alone. The big black dog makes me feel safe-though the 17 lb. JRT is the one who will bite!

I agree a Dobe is not a good first dog, and mine requires lots of activity and attention from his people. I did have to go to a great deal of effort to find a breeder who would sell a puppy with natural ears.

I love my powerful, graceful, loyal black dog.

IFG
Dec. 22, 2008, 09:57 AM
Standard Poodle. I just shave them naked with the horse clippers once a month, and the coat requires no maintenance. Even with no coat, our last standard would stay out for hours in single digit temps.

I do recommend getting a well bred Standard. Our last dog came from Poodle Rescue. Although he had a wonderful temperament, he had several health issues known to occur in Poodles. We couldn't take the heartache and got a puppy from a reputable breeder.

They are smart and good around horses. Really fun, and no shedding.

HydroPHILE
Dec. 22, 2008, 10:09 AM
And for entertainment value...some of the dobermans in my life:

(Note, the two cropped Dobies were rescues...the natural eared Dobie was not and was a training Dobie):

The "Dobie in training" was merely in my [former] front yard. I am not a professional trainer :)

Natural Ear - Dobie in training - 10 mths old (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/wildernessk9sar/sabrestand.jpg)

Natural Ear - Dobie in training - 10 mths old - heel (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/wildernessk9sar/sabreheel.jpg)

Uno (female - rescue). Sad former breeder:

Uno - Sit - 9-1/2 years old (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/wildernessk9sar/Uno-sit.jpg)

Uno - fundraiser - 9-1/2 years old (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/wildernessk9sar/uno.jpg)

Uno - her throne - 9-1/2 years old (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/wildernessk9sar/dobie1.jpg)

I would also venture to say that 99% of the things people tell you about Dobermans as "no, I'm being serious" are false such as "they turn on you after they turn 5 years old" or "Their brains keep growing, but their head stays the same size, and they start attacking" type of stuff.

riverbell93
Dec. 22, 2008, 10:24 AM
I had neighbors who raised Dobermans, years ago, and they seemed to believe that there was a significant temperament difference between the males and the females - that the male Dobe is substantially more likely to try to dominate humans and potentially bite from dominance than a bitch. I don't know if that's true, just thought I'd mention it.

If the OP goes the second-hand dog route, please be careful where you shop. There are a ton of Dobes and mixes out there, and a ton of misguided rescue people who just want to 'save' anything with a pulse. A few years ago, a Doberman was brought into a shelter in NJ for euthanasia because of aggression - specifically, the dog had bitten twice, hard. The shelter took the dog, lied to the owner that it had been euthanized, turned around and adopted it out. The dog actually killed a woman in it's new home. Bad rescues are every bit as bad as puppy mills.


The breed is known for having same-sex aggressiveness. MANY breeds of dogs have this; it's not a fault, it's a reality.

For all practical purposes, dog-aggressiveness in a breed is a fault even if the breed standard shrugs it off as acceptable.

Saddlrgirl
Dec. 22, 2008, 10:35 AM
I LOVE my dobes and will never live on a farm without one. I have had all the traditional "farm" dogs and can't stand having dogs that nip at my horses heals and yap all day. I worked as Animal Control for years and have seen labs tear peoples legs to shreds and poodles rip off childrens faces. It is all in the raising of a dog, and doberman's truly get a bad reputation. They are one of the only breeds that was originally bred to be a human companion, not a herder or hunter. My dobes have never had any formal training but they all sit quietly near me when the horses are acting up, and they look to me first when they don't understand something that is going on. Several of my dobes even became licensed as handicapped assistance animals. Everybody that comes to my farm rolls their eyes when they meet them the first time but within about 2 minutes fall in love with them. I swear they would happily help a burglar rob me blind!!!

dacasodivine
Dec. 22, 2008, 10:48 AM
Riverbell, you're so right on this. A woman I know and her husband adopted a doberman from a doberman rescue. It bit them both several times and was attacking their other dogs, including an aged doberman. They called the rescue and were told to give it time. They were made to feel bad for wanting to return it. After one particularly viscious attack, they threated to have the dog put down if the rescue didn't come get it.

By the way, I have two very sweet doberman who only show teeth if I or my children are in danger. One is 8 the other is 6. They had never been around horses except when I took them to the barn where my horse was boarded. They had never been around chickens. We bought our home on two acres less than two years ago and they have adapted really well. One actually plays chase with the pony. The older dog doesn't like to run and play much any more and neither does the other horse. So, they take turns chasing each other! They greet people with a goofy smile and a wagging butt just hoping for a scratch or pat.

To me, mine have proper temperament. I have met several people who brag how protective their dogs are. One guy recently was telling me how great two were that he used to have. He said he was pulled over by a police officer and when he rolled down the window, both dogs went for the police officer! He was proud of this! Not that they went for the police officer but that they were protecting him. Those are the kind of owners and dogs who give the breed a bad name.

I love my dobies and will always have one or two.

rebeginner
Dec. 22, 2008, 11:12 AM
I've had dobermans for 22 years: males, females, rescues, fosters, fancy-bred, cropped ears, natural ears. Three of them are permanently placed in my back yard, and I have a 8 yr old black female and a 3 year old blue male lounging around in the house today. ALL of them went through basic obedience training and several of them had basic agility. I think dobermans would be a terrific choice for a farm dog.

OP, you've gotten a lot of good advice. Dobermans do have issues, many of which you would have with any large dog.

However, of the more than a dozen dobermans I've had, only two chased a horse. Each one did it once. One got kicked, and came back to me crying, "Yeah, I know you told me not to chase it and you were right." The other one had to be verbally reminded (BAD DOG. BAD DOG.). I've taken my dogs to barns, clinics, horse shows and never had a problem with horses, other dogs or people. My dogs have all been affectionate and attentive. I think they've been good ambassadors for the breed.

Dobermans are very, very intelligent and very easy to train. The breed originated as a guard (NOT attack) dog, so you get much of what you're interested in without having to do much yourself.

However, as has been pointed out, they do shed. It's sort of like having several men of Mediterranean extraction walking around your house, shaving. Lots and lots of short, fine, dark hair fall off every single day in every season.

short strided
Dec. 22, 2008, 11:54 AM
I have one! He is a smart dog, but sometimes the energy level intereferes with the brain function.:lol: He is fine with our cats. He will chase if they run, but if he actually catches one he just gives it a good grooming.

He is NOT a guard dog. He will bark if someone comes to the door, but it really means:"Wow, someone is here to see ME!! Please let them in so that I can properly welcome them and gift them one of my slobbery toys!"

His favorite toys are old t-shirts. He will pick one and carry it around for a while. Sometimes he will ball it up and suck on it. It's pretty funny to watch.

Total velcro dog. He is six now, but for the first two years of his life, he would even check on me in the shower. Every few minutes he would stand on the edge of the tub with his front paws and stick his head through the back of the curtain like "Yep, still in there." I guess he eventually became comfortable that I wasn't actually going to go down the drain, because now he just stays in the bed.:lol:

I bring him out to the barn occassionally. He doesn't chase the horses and just loves to wallow in the mud puddle behind the wash rack!

Go Fish
Dec. 22, 2008, 06:34 PM
I've been looking through past threads but have only found bits and pieces of information as most of them are about farm dogs in general.

So...tell me about your experiences with Dobermans :D The good, the bad, the ugly, anything! My family is looking for a dog for our farm, here are the specs:

1. Good watchdog
2. Big enough to not be stolen by coyotes
3. Not over 100lbs
4. Sheds very little
5. Intelligent
6. Friendly

Any info is well appreciated!

I think, considering your criteria, a Dobie is perfect. They can tolerate cold if acclimated. Dobies are kinda like Rotties...look intimidating because they have that "stare." They normally bark very little when sizing up someone new, which gives everyone the creeps.

RHdobes563
Dec. 22, 2008, 07:37 PM
For all practical purposes, dog-aggressiveness in a breed is a fault even if the breed standard shrugs it off as acceptable.


Have you been to a dog show and seen in the judging of the Terrier Group where the judge will put dogs face to face? I forget the actual term, but they ARE looking for a type of Terrier aggressiveness.

Griffyn
Dec. 22, 2008, 07:40 PM
Uno is especially cute! THanks for sharing.

Bluey
Dec. 22, 2008, 07:47 PM
Have you been to a dog show and seen in the judging of the Terrier Group where the judge will put dogs face to face? I forget the actual term, but they ARE looking for a type of Terrier aggressiveness.

That is called sparring and not all breeders and judges like it, with good reason in today's world, where no one really needs that kind of sharper temperament.

riverbell93
Dec. 23, 2008, 10:25 AM
Have you been to a dog show and seen in the judging of the Terrier Group where the judge will put dogs face to face? I forget the actual term, but they ARE looking for a type of Terrier aggressiveness.

I think Bluey said it perfectly, but to reply to the question - I have been to dog shows, though mostly for sporting and herding breeds, and I don't think I've ever stayed for groups, as that makes for a very long day. But I have owned a terrier mix and I am familiar with the way terrier attitude toward other dogs is different, has a level of interest that doesn't exist in other breeds in the same way, that "Fight?" question that isn't even aggression so much as it is sheer shitheadedness. I'm not saying that doesn't exist or that it can't be handled appropriately, I'm saying it's a fault because it serves no positive purpose and it makes a dog harder to handle and own, and can make them more dangerous to others. I agree with Bluey that nobody needs that temperament today. I don't understand how so many people can be against actual dog-fighting, yet resist the idea of penalizing dog-aggression.

MissintheSouth
Dec. 23, 2008, 10:37 AM
Standard Poodle...barn dog extraordinaire! Fits your criteria to a T except for "sheds very little"...they actually don't shed at all. (even better) Excessively easy to train, very people oriented, excellent watch dogs, excellent vermin dogs (will get rid of everything from rats to possums), not known for roaming or wandering, not livestock chasers, will chase off coyotes...can't say enough good things about the breed as farm dogs. Don't be fooled by the typical show clips they give some of them...no need to make your own Standard look stupid. You can close clip them, leave them with a medium coat, have fun and give them a mohawk. :winkgrin:
It's my all time fave dog..and I'm definitely a big dog person. There's nothing foofy or wimpy about a big poodle.
Here's one with a normal clip:
http://www.westkentuckyrescue.com/e_tn_poodles/SmStandard-after-md.jpg
And here's a bunch in a variety of colors:
http://www.greatdogsite.com/watermark/Standard%20Poodle-all-all-1209334152.jpg

Totally Agree 100%! Another vote for the Poodle. When I worked at a BNT Dressage barn in NC, we had 2 Std Poodles that were the barn mascots. They rarely if ever barked, were easily trained (and retained the training with whoever was working with them unlike a "one owner" type dog which is how my mom's dobie was). They were the smartest dogs in the world and they were easy keepers - not wimpie floof dogs.

We had a dob when I was a teenager and though he was the sweetest dog in the world, he was a total wimp. This became an issue b/c normal things (like gloves, the sound of the car door slamming, etc) would scare him and a scared dog is just as dangerous as a spooked horse. He had eye problems when he got older (which is common in dobermans) and would snap at people he didn't recognize out of fear. So he stayed at home most of his older adult life.

asb_own_me
Dec. 23, 2008, 12:21 PM
Dobies are kinda like Rotties...look intimidating because they have that "stare." They normally bark very little when sizing up someone new, which gives everyone the creeps.

LOL! Bingo. I have a lot of people tell me that my red bitch is scary. She's got the extreme almond shaped, deeper set eyes that are a lighter color (since she's red, not black) and she will Stare. You. Down. without making a sound. You know that uncomfortable lull of silence in coversation? Same principle :lol:

My girls are from the same breeder, but not related. They both passed the WAE testing (working aptitude evaluation) with flying colors and no preparatory training. By the breed standard, Dobermans should be indifferent to a non-threatening stranger, and even only mildly interested in a friendly stranger. (Both tested in the WAE) They shouldn't run up and lick and wag, etc like a Golden might.

I also agree with the poster who said they were bred to be guard dogs, not attack dogs. When faced with a threatening situation, a Doberman (properly reacting) should put itself between the threat and the owner/family/pack and stand ground. Voicing would also be appropriate at this juncture...but not crazy barking. Think a low growl, teeth bared, and slow, big, deep barks. Not the yap-yap-yap of "warning" that most dogs give. If the threat advances, then the Doberman (properly reacting) would at that point advance to the threat. Both of my girls had high passing scores in all aspects of their WAE tests, but they both had a +3 (the highest score) in their reaction to a threatening person. They each went out in front of me, putting their body between me and the threat, made their presence known when the attacker moved (by growls, low barks, baring teeth) and both advanced right to the attacker when the attacker advanced. Neither of them have any sort of protection training...they just KNEW.

Both of these girls have multiple obedience titles in AKC and UKC obedience and are also certified therpay dogs with Therapy Dogs International. I used to volunteer with a local hospice and took both girls to see hospice patients and their families.

I know none of that is specific to a barn/farm environment, but Dobies are adaptable and want to please their master. They are the best dogs you could ever wish to be owned by.

lizathenag
Dec. 23, 2008, 03:22 PM
the only sorrow my good red dobie caused was the day she left me. . .

Go Fish
Dec. 23, 2008, 07:27 PM
ASB - I've never had one, but I love Dobies. What amazing dogs!

I noticed your tag line...my father is a 20-year esophageal cancer survivor!

Denzel
Dec. 23, 2008, 09:24 PM
My coach had a Doberman for many years that lived at home with her and came out to the barn with her everyday. Bailey was an amazing dog, super friendly, and really good around the horses. She didn't quite like the cold (but we are in Canada with -50*C winters). She was really a fabulous dog, I def miss her!

Old Equine Lady
Dec. 23, 2008, 11:31 PM
Trainer always had a Dobe by her side........

asb_own_me
Dec. 24, 2008, 08:33 AM
I noticed your tag line...my father is a 20-year esophageal cancer survivor!

That is nothing short of a miracle. The 5 year survival rate for that type of cancer hovers around 8%. My dad died within 9 months of diagnosis, despite aggressive chemo, radiation, and an unsuccessful surgery.

Go Fish
Dec. 24, 2008, 03:30 PM
That is nothing short of a miracle. The 5 year survival rate for that type of cancer hovers around 8%. My dad died within 9 months of diagnosis, despite aggressive chemo, radiation, and an unsuccessful surgery.

Yes, we know! And, are eternally grateful. He lost about a third of his esophagus and half his stomach to save his life. Also, consider the advances in medicine in the last 20 years. This was back when no one survived it. He's a tough ol' coot! :)

RHdobes563
Dec. 25, 2008, 12:43 AM
Although I did bring up "sparring" and Terriers, in the initial discussion, I was talking about same-sex aggression in a HOME. Like when pasture-mates don't get along, and horses have to be moved so that one horse doesn't bully or get bullied too much? Same-sex aggression (or even opposite sex) is here and happening---just check the Giveaways to see how common it is among us here on COTH.

My same-sex aggressive Doberman (Darnit Garnet) was wonderful with people, behaved in dog obedience class, and never started anything away from home. In fact, the only doggy confrontation came when a Golden Retriever stuck his nose in Garnet's face when Garnet was on his own blanket minding his own business.

Currently, I have only two Dobermans, one male and one female. Right now, I would not feel comfortable bringing another Doberman, as my male is very dominant; and my female came from a home where she was very dominated. HOWEVER, both dogs have run loose more than once in a dog park with 20+ other large dogs and have been absolutely angels. In fact, the only problem we've faced there came from a small dog who came after mine aggressively, and who should have been in the SMALL dog park where he belonged.

There are a lot of people worried about how certain breeds are losing the abilities that those dogs were bred for. Terriers, I believe, were not bred for aggression towards each other but towards vermin and predators. Certainly, some of the Sporting Breeds are not what they were, and God forbid that I ever have a Doberman that I felt would not defend me IF the chips were truly down.

I do know that some dogs shows are forbidding the use of mesh crates as they don't feel they can contain an aggressive dog. My late-departed dogs were well-behaved in their mesh crate(s), even with other crates placed close by. But then again, we obedience people don't put up with a whole lot of crap from our dogs.

Dobermans are WONDERFUL dogs and CAN be a great farm dog. However, if I lived where there was a lot of snow in winter (and I do), I wouldn't expect a Dobe to spend a lot of time outside in the cold.

There are many wonderful breeds of dogs (AND mutts) who might make a great farm dog and companion. For help (beyond us), I suggest www.akc.org to check out the various breeds. And talk with REPUTABLE breeders if you decide to go that way; they will be brutally honest about their dogs good qualities and not-so-good traits.

Pardon me if I've rambled here. I got back from a Christmas Eve family party with too little food and too much stress, and I get to do it all again tomorrow...err....today.

WaningMoon
Dec. 25, 2008, 07:40 AM
My experience with them is that they vary widely in health and neurosis level; you want to be careful which breeder you buy from. Unfortunately a while back dobes were the fashionable breed among dumb trash dog owners, just like pitbulls are now. There was a lot of inappropriate breeding. Dobes are in the middle range as far as intelligence. Most of the ones I've known have been very loyal. A lot are also a bit timid, which increases the chances of fright bite. Because of the latter factor, I wouldn't recommend a doberman for for inexperienced dog owners. I especially wouldn't recommend a doberman for an inexperienced dog owner who gets lot of visitors.

http://www.ehow.com/how_4528441_understand-five-intelligent-dog-breeds.html?ref=fuel&utm_source=yahoo&utm_medium=ssp&utm_campaign=yssp_art

This was compiled by the AKC and the CKC. IT list Dobes on the #1 spot for intelligence. If youi google intelligent dog breeds I don't think you will find one single list that doesn't mention them on it. I couldn't. They are soooo well known for being highly intelligent and very easily trainable. Far from mid range.

indygirl2560
Dec. 25, 2008, 05:18 PM
My barn has a Weimeraner and the grooms have some border collies. Both breeds are great farm dogs! I'm not sure about Dobermans though.

Bluey
Dec. 25, 2008, 05:29 PM
http://www.ehow.com/how_4528441_understand-five-intelligent-dog-breeds.html?ref=fuel&utm_source=yahoo&utm_medium=ssp&utm_campaign=yssp_art

This was compiled by the AKC and the CKC. IT list Dobes on the #1 spot for intelligence. If youi google intelligent dog breeds I don't think you will find one single list that doesn't mention them on it. I couldn't. They are soooo well known for being highly intelligent and very easily trainable. Far from mid range.

The trouble with depending on breeds to say a dog has such and such characteristics is that in some breeds there is much more variability between individuals than in others, dobermans one of them.
That is part of the breed characteristics, that there are all kinds of traits found in them, from the very vacillating to the very dominant, some smart and others really simple ones.

Most border collies or poodles will be smart as a breed, because those breed characteristics are more stable in them.

alterhelpeater
Dec. 25, 2008, 06:13 PM
They are great and just as a previous poster said any dog can be what you make of it. My only concern would be if you live in a cold climate as they do get cold.

Dinahmare
Dec. 25, 2008, 09:01 PM
I don't have time to read all the postings but has someone already mentioned the fact that some property insurers are being difficult about insuring homes/farms with certain breeds on the premises? You might want to check. Although the idiots that created these restrictions leave me shaking my head. My Dobiegirl had perfect manners, never barred her teeth in her life, never trod in a paddock without being invited. My male German short hair pointer flys under the insurance radar but he's the one who will turn into the most protective bundle of drooling teeth one can imagine. Go figure.

smilton
Dec. 25, 2008, 09:07 PM
I love my dobie. He is definitely not under 100# but he is probably the largest dobie I have even seen. He has been great with the horses and loves to go on trail rides. He is obnoxiously friendly and has never met a stranger but it scary enough to scare off people who should not be there. Ranger is probably close to 120# and I've had him for 6yrs. His only bad habit is he likes to sleep in my square bales and will beg for attention non stop.

europferde
Dec. 26, 2008, 05:53 PM
Well, I currently have a 4-1/2 year old full brother and sister from the same litter; red male and a black and tan female. What a pair! I've had two other dobies before and also a Border Collie.

They have never met a stranger. The female is more reserved but very loving and demanding of attention once she knows someone. She is very adept at "the stare". The male loves to stand on his hind legs and give kisses to everyone he meets. He is just absolutely the goofiest dog I've ever had. Just don't come on the property at night or unwelcome or you're toast! Excellent with the horses but a pain with my barn cat. Terrific with my young teenage stepchildren who just started living with us.

They are very high energy and for that reason they only get to be at the barn before and after barn hours. I taught them to accept the horse vacuums on them and so when I turn them on to vacuum any horse they come and stand next to the horse in the grooming stall and demand to be vacuumed. Can't bend down to brush legs or pick out feet - you become fair game for a face licking. I have a no dog policy on my property and so in fairness to to my clients, they only get to feed with me in the morning and do barn check at night. They have no problem telling me what time it is and wake me up every morning to feed and pester me constantly to do barn check! THey are amazingly smart and could probably pay my bills and balance my checkbook for me- thus I call them the Doberpeople. Notoriously bad crotch nudging dogs. If you do something with them ONCE - it becomes part of their routine. VERY DEMANDING VELCRO individuals. Not good in the wet or cold though but their love their miniature horse blankets.

I intend to always have one in my life - they are just not good for someone who is mean spirited, lazy, tempermental, inconsistent or wishy washy.


Diane
www.europferde.com

jacksorbetter
Dec. 27, 2008, 09:07 AM
We have a dobie among 3 other dogs on our farmette with 2 horses. My dobie never leaves my side... she definitely required training not to bother the horses...but learned very quickly and has always had a great desire to please me and do "what's right". Her presence alone is enough to deter anyone who would ever dream of bothering me or my children. No need for anyone to know she would sooner lick them to death than bite anyone.



http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/photo.php?pid=51757&id=1585174288

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/photo.php?pid=51600&id=1585174288

saxony
Dec. 27, 2008, 06:38 PM
Another Dobie owner/lover here. I love all animals but dogs, as a rule are pretty low on my list - except for my Doberman. She is the most incredible animal I have ever known. She is a great farm dog, family dog, travelling companion, etc. I have 5 human children and she is my sixth. This dog has never put a foot wrong. Everyone who meets her loves her and wants to keep her. My In-laws who have never owned an animal in their life consider her one of their grandchildren, LOL. If there is one downside: she is rather needy and has to be with her people at all times but the good news is she never wanders! She does EVERYTHING with us including going to church on Sunday but I would imagine that Dobermans probably wouldn't do too well if they were left home all day while their people worked. I love this dog so much; I never thought I say that about a dog.

Here she is camping with the family:

http://inlinethumb56.webshots.com/42743/2369277960104183971S600x600Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2369277960104183971HjNmUI)

sisu27
Dec. 28, 2008, 03:07 PM
I have had them for 15-20 yrs and I will always have at least one. Agree that they are not for everyone though.

To whomever said they are mid-range intelligent I strongly disagree...ours have ranged from smart to scarey smart to genious. They do shed a huge amount, the joke at every family meal is whomever gets the doberhair wins. You just can't avoid it. Daily grooming with a soft curry is the best solution along with a good diet. My current rescue "Tommy Makinen" aka Mak is a wonderful hack, goes everywhere and gets along with everyone. He expressed interest once in my horse when he was rolling and received a kick to the head which solved that. Mak tollerates the cold well and wears his coat only when it is super cold and he has to spend anytime waiting for me in the car. Most of the others have been wimps though about cold/rain. Mak sings and has favourite artists/bands, Van Morrison being his fave. They are all quite gassey, my first female would leave the room and look embarrassed. You must train them not to eat ANYTHING that you haven't given them the ok to as all of mine have been on a neverending mission to eat EVERYTHING yet they typically can't tolerate it. The like to sit on the sofa with their front feet on the floor. All my males have clacked their teeth together when excited (scares most people). They are such wonderful, intelligent, funny dogs...I could go on and on.

The only problem with them and I'm shocked with all these Dobie lovers that it hasn't been mentioned, is that app. 50% of them have Dilated Cardio Myopathy and it will likely kill them if bloat/torsion doesn't get them first. Not much you can do to avoid it and run the other way from breeders who "guarantee heart".

The only non-dobe we have had in recent history is a Standard Poodle. He is a cool dog too. The non shedding thing is nice but I don't find him that smart and he eats dog poop (what is that called again...pica??). We love him too but he just isn't a dobe. He is probably an easier dog to own though and more suitable for most.

Good luck and please check out petfinder.com when you are ready to find one.

asb_own_me
Dec. 28, 2008, 03:35 PM
The only problem with them and I'm shocked with all these Dobie lovers that it hasn't been mentioned, is that app. 50% of them have Dilated Cardio Myopathy and it will likely kill them if bloat/torsion doesn't get them first. Not much you can do to avoid it and run the other way from breeders who "guarantee heart".

I found it funny (not humorous funny, sarcastic funny) that you say 50% have DCM. Breeders would beat you with sticks for saying that, but the truth is that probably 75% of Dobies who die of misc. "natural causes" probably were affected by DCM...just not diagnosed. There are varying degrees of severity and the owner and/or vet can attribute death to another cause if the DCM wasn't readily apparent.

Re: bloat/torsion....a well managed Dobe with a knowledgeable owner shouldn't have an issue with this. Mine are kenneled after meals for 30-60 minutes to let them digest in a quiet environment.

Briggsie
Dec. 28, 2008, 03:44 PM
I have three Dobies....our youngest is the best "farm dog". My oldest feels the need to put everything in her mouth, so then she gets sick in the middle of the night, and the middle gal has a super high prey drive that would cause her to leave, shall we say, ABRUPTLY, should a bunny/squirrel/small furry critter dash by. The youngest doesn't want to be far away so he does great. They are super intelligent, very loyal, protective and most have an exceptionally well developed sense of humor. They are not dogs that are equipped to live outside, though. They don't have enough coat and they need to be with their people. Mine all HATE the rain, too.

Varying degrees of success with the horses. The oldest could care less, the middle one wants to lick their faces whether or not they want to be licked, and the youngest has learned to respect their size and stay away from legs!

This made me laugh...sounds like all three of your dogs have the personality of just the one I have. He is such a goofball....

But....every dobie I have ever had...and I am on my third...Decco is now 6 going on 7, have never been protective unless they really felt I was threatened...but took a whole lot to stir them up. Reagan, my female, was the most protective...but Decco....he is way too friendly to do much. He is a 98lb baby! I love him to pieces....our truck was recently broken into, so I am thinking of getting a German shepherd again. I had one that I let my husband procure in the divorce...and although she was loyal to us...she did not care for strangers. She was a fantastic alter/watch dog.

And yes...most dobies have a HIGH prey drive. Decco was unsuccessful at shutzund training because he would snap into another world when he saw a squirrel or something to that efect.

I highly rec. dobies as a great family dog. They are not aggressive at all..but do require lots of stimulation and boundries need to be set from the get go....otherwise they will outsmart you.....i mean doing things like begging, getting on furniture...ruling the roost. I don't recommend males if you can avoid it...they are usually more needy toward their female owners. My husband believes my decco baby will sponatenously combust if I were to ever fall off the planet.

sisu27
Dec. 28, 2008, 09:52 PM
I found it funny (not humorous funny, sarcastic funny) that you say 50% have DCM. Breeders would beat you with sticks for saying that, but the truth is that probably 75% of Dobies who die of misc. "natural causes" probably were affected by DCM...just not diagnosed. There are varying degrees of severity and the owner and/or vet can attribute death to another cause if the DCM wasn't readily apparent.

Re: bloat/torsion....a well managed Dobe with a knowledgeable owner shouldn't have an issue with this. Mine are kenneled after meals for 30-60 minutes to let them digest in a quiet environment.

Yes, I agree that the 50% is conservative. I have participated in the U of Guelph study with past Dobes but my current guy is not a participant. For anyone interested in learning more go here: http://www.ovc.uoguelph.ca/ClinStudies/ogrady/holter/holterfaqs.htm

As far as bloat/torsion goes I have to disagree with you that you can avoid it with careful mangement. My current guy has had the surgery and has a pexy (sp??) and it was an entirely avoidable thing...long story which makes me irate so I will leave it at that but we lost two of our females to this as they were both not surgical candidates due to age :cry: They both also had other health conditions which may have predisposed them to bloat but the last one was hardly even symptomatic (just a but hunched and tender, no visable enlargement of the abdoman and still soft) and I was shocked when I saw the x-ray. Anyways, my point was that both females were carefully managed as we DREAD bloat yet it got them anyways. You can most definatley reduce the odds but in my experience you can not prevent it 100%.

WaningMoon
Dec. 30, 2008, 07:01 AM
Must be I am very lucky with mine. Since 1979 I have owned 11 adults, and raised 8 litters from show parents 25 yrs ago. I have never once had one with bloat or DCM. I do feed a high quality food and feed free choice which I have always felt helps with bloat as they only nibble and do not eat large amounts at once. Have always fed my dogs and cats free choice. I feel very fortunate I have not had these problems with there being such a high rate of it. I have lost several to cancer though. It is absolutely horrifying. I think no less of them than my daughters and have always referred to them as "your brother/sister to my kids.

sisu27
Dec. 30, 2008, 12:49 PM
Must be I am very lucky with mine. Since 1979 I have owned 11 adults, and raised 8 litters from show parents 25 yrs ago. I have never once had one with bloat or DCM. I do feed a high quality food and feed free choice which I have always felt helps with bloat as they only nibble and do not eat large amounts at once. Have always fed my dogs and cats free choice. I feel very fortunate I have not had these problems with there being such a high rate of it. I have lost several to cancer though. It is absolutely horrifying. I think no less of them than my daughters and have always referred to them as "your brother/sister to my kids.

That's great that you have been so lucky. We have yet to have one get cancer which I think is probably much worse for dog and human alike. I'm sorry that you have had that experience. It is hard to say there is anything "nice" about DCM but my last male that I lost to it did have great quality of life right up until the end. Due to my involvement with the DCM study at U of Guelph I knew he was dying but nobody believed me when they saw him...he was still playing frisbee up until the end. That dog (Simca's Kid Montana aka Monty) died at 6yo at my feet. It was very hard for me but he did not experience any pain or suffering and I am grateful for that.

We have always fed good quality feed, rested before and after meals, used the "Break-fast" bowls and monitored water intake so I have to wonder why my Dobes are bloating? None of them have been related so it can't be a genetic predisposition. I am interested in the free-choice food idea and how that might be beneficial but with the two I have now it is not an option. Both are rescues and given the choice would eat until they died.

WaningMoon
Dec. 31, 2008, 06:53 AM
That's great that you have been so lucky. We have yet to have one get cancer which I think is probably much worse for dog and human alike. I'm sorry that you have had that experience. It is hard to say there is anything "nice" about DCM but my last male that I lost to it did have great quality of life right up until the end. Due to my involvement with the DCM study at U of Guelph I knew he was dying but nobody believed me when they saw him...he was still playing frisbee up until the end. That dog (Simca's Kid Montana aka Monty) died at 6yo at my feet. It was very hard for me but he did not experience any pain or suffering and I am grateful for that.

We have always fed good quality feed, rested before and after meals, used the "Break-fast" bowls and monitored water intake so I have to wonder why my Dobes are bloating? None of them have been related so it can't be a genetic predisposition. I am interested in the free-choice food idea and how that might be beneficial but with the two I have now it is not an option. Both are rescues and given the choice would eat until they died.

I am so very sorry you have been dealing with this and it must have been horrible to have your much loved friend just drop at your feet.

My two males are rescues as well. They are brothers. I got a call from the humane society and the vet within 5 min. of each other both wanting me to go down and get these dogs. The owner had been jailed and his grandfather who is just not right, had been keeping them as his house but not feeding them at all. They were running loose in the city and killing cats. The black male who weighs 125 now weighed 53 when I got him. HIs red brother weighed 38 and now weighs 70. It was two months before the vet felt comfortable neutering them, she said they would never come out of surgery, they were just too thin. I on the vets recommendation started feeding them free choice too and they steadily gained. I have never adhered to any resting periods before or after feediing. Even when they first came they didn't over eat. They'd munch away a few minutes and come back later.They also all get free choice water from a 3 gallon pot so they drink when they want too. IN my house I have three Dobes, two male, one female, a male chow X and a beagle. Also five himalayan and himalayan X cats which they have learned to love and get along with. They are often found curled up together in my bed. I do live on the theory that sometimes less is more. All my animals have and get what they need, but they including the horses are allowed to be the animals that they are. My horses have shelter but its up to them if they want to go into it. IF they want to stand out in the rain and or snow then that is left up to them. My dogs have an electric fenced half acre for a pen and they go out there nad romp around a minimum of six times a day. We live in the country so they go for walks with us as well in the woods and on the dirt roads.
I don't know what to say other than I wish you didn't have to suffer from these bloats. I have had Dobes for 30 yrs this year and have never had it happen even once.

bluedapple
Jan. 1, 2009, 04:58 PM
Anyone know a great doberman breeder in Pa/NJ/DE area?
I don't care about champions, I just want an excellent temperment and as healthy asw possible. Back yard breeders are fine
THANKS!!

sisu27
Jan. 1, 2009, 05:15 PM
Anyone know a great doberman breeder in Pa/NJ/DE area?
I don't care about champions, I just want an excellent temperment and as healthy asw possible. Back yard breeders are fine
THANKS!!

Please check out petfinder.com for dogs first. There are lots of purebred beauties in need of a home right now...if I could I'd grab this guy:

http://www.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=12717658

or maybe:

http://www.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=12470271
(Look at that old face:))

or this guy:

http://www.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=12687503


1344 dogs listed on petfinder as Dobes/Dobe mixes right now...I bet at least one of them would be perfect for you.

Jaideux
Jan. 1, 2009, 05:29 PM
Bluedapple: Please don't buy from a back-yard breeder. The reasons champions are champions is BECAUSE they have the temperment and health you are looking for. Also, back yard breeders tend to disappear after you hand over your money, and are unavailable to help you if you have any questions/comments/concerns about your puppy, and eventually grown-up dog. Good breeders will be available for the rest of the dog's life to help you out, at any hour of the day, simply because they are that invested in the breed and the future of the dogs they produced.

A champion has paper proof of their health, quality build, and outstanding temperment in the eyes of several different judges. With a backyard breeder, you're taking their word for it.

If you're open to getting a non-puppy dog, rescue one. After puppyhood, the personality is pretty well developed and self-evident, and you'll KNOW if it has the desired temperment, and any serious medical concerns likely would have shown themselves (if not, it's probably a sudden-onset, nothing you can do about it even if you'd known them as a puppy kind of thing).

In short, rescue from a knowledgeable rescue that does thorough temperment-testing, or go through a breeder and specify that you are looking for a "pet-quality" dog. Pet-quality usually means the puppy is just the wrong color, or maybe has a less-than perfect alignment of teeth. Nothing that will impact their health or functioning, just simply a small blemish that would never get past a judge in the show ring. A good breeder will require you to spay/neuter such a puppy, and many offer a "refund incentive" (ie $100 or 200 returned from the purchase price) when you submit the vet paperwork.

Do yourself and your family a favor and do more research on the ins and outs of acquiring a dog before you jump in. I'm a member of a Great Dane online forum (powered by the same platform as COTH, interestingly), and I've learned OOODLES from them in just a few weeks. See if you can find one like that for dobies. You can probably find out about good rescues from there, too.

bluedapple
Jan. 1, 2009, 05:59 PM
What I ment by "back yard" was non-show breeders.
I would also appreciate any "small" breeder info, perhaps a family that has one litter a year that has great family dogs.

sisu27
Jan. 1, 2009, 06:46 PM
Not to hijack and make this thread OT but can you or someone please explain why some people refuse to even consider a rescue? Is it some bizarre need to have papers that mean nothing or a bloodline to brag about?? I had one of those dogs and he was LOVELY but he was no healthier (not the breeders fault as they don't know which dogs will get DCM so therefore can't breed for heart in any scientific way) nor better in any other way than my rescues other than he came with some papers and I had to sign a 12 page contract to buy him. Oh yeah, he also cost about $1800 more. I will never buy from a breeder again and actually he was a gift from my parents so I haven't yet.

I just can't understand people who claim to like or love dogs that refuse to rescue. Or even better not spay/neuter. Or even one better than that actually breed their dogs on purpose. WTF?? Same with horses...STOP BREEDING $hitty dogs and horses people and maybe in about 20 years we might not have such a problem that requires KILLING a bazillion perfectly good animals every year. FU(K ME! Rant over.

Bluey
Jan. 1, 2009, 08:16 PM
Not to hijack and make this thread OT but can you or someone please explain why some people refuse to even consider a rescue? Is it some bizarre need to have papers that mean nothing or a bloodline to brag about?? I had one of those dogs and he was LOVELY but he was no healthier (not the breeders fault as they don't know which dogs will get DCM so therefore can't breed for heart in any scientific way) nor better in any other way than my rescues other than he came with some papers and I had to sign a 12 page contract to buy him. Oh yeah, he also cost about $1800 more. I will never buy from a breeder again and actually he was a gift from my parents so I haven't yet.

I just can't understand people who claim to like or love dogs that refuse to rescue. Or even better not spay/neuter. Or even one better than that actually breed their dogs on purpose. WTF?? Same with horses...STOP BREEDING $hitty dogs and horses people and maybe in about 20 years we might not have such a problem that requires KILLING a bazillion perfectly good animals every year. FU(K ME! Rant over.

You seem to be contradicting yourself there.:confused:

In one hand, you are asking people to get a rescue dog, of unknown breeding and in the other hand you are asking people to quit being irresponsibly and breeding "xxxxxx bad dogs".

If all quit breeding, that means the responsible, good breeders, there will only be those left to buy/rescue "xxxxxxx bad dogs" left, since those people won't quit breeding.

It is the same with horses or dogs.
Those that are very good breeders produce the really good individuals, that by being good are in demand and so have a better chance at a good life.:cool:

The bad breeders, it is anyone's guess what the dogs they produce will be when mature.

I don't think that anyone is trying to discourage the OP from getting a rescue, only understanding that this time that is maybe not what the OP wants and that it is ok.:yes:

Griffyn
Jan. 1, 2009, 08:44 PM
i would also recommend checking out breeders registered with the United Doberman Club as opposed to the AKC only breeders. UDC strongly champions health testing and dogs with working ability.

jacksorbetter
Jan. 1, 2009, 08:53 PM
I have four dogs. 3 of them are purebreeds from breeders, and my most recent addition is a rescued pitbull...whom we adore. HOWEVER, it was hell getting her! We did go through petfinder. We went to the shelter (which was so sad, i wanted to bring them all home). We filled out all of the paperwork. We went home and waited while they called 4 references to check us out. We waited while they called my vet to check us out. We had to bring in our 3 other dogs to make sure everyone got along. Then we had to wait for her to get spayed, even though i begged for them to let me have my vet do it (i love my vet and in my past experience a bad spay led to a life of urinary incontinence for one of my dogs). Then they kept forgetting to call me back (even though i called every day for TWO WEEKS! After 7 weeks, i figured someone else had adopted her. Until I FINALLY got a call and was told we could come get her. I asked why it had taken so long, and never got a good answer. I realize that these places are run on less than shoestring budgets, and a lot of the workers are only volunteers, but to me the entire experience made me never want to adopt again! I also understand that they need to screen people, but in my opinion the hoops you have to jump through are way too extensive, and good dog owners end up going elsewhere because they don't want to go through all of that screening. My poor girl sat in a cage for 7 weeks longer than she should have. I don't know...i'm sure i'm going to get flamed by a bunch of you guys...but the whole experience pissed me off...i know that i am a great dog owner...i know that i can provide a fantastic life for any dog...i hated being treated like some irresponsible kid and put through such a rigorous background check! I have also been turned down in the past for not having a fenced in property!! (Horse fence with invisible dog wire wasn't good enough!!) We live on a huge farm for God's sake!! I wish the rescues could come up with a better system!

WaningMoon
Jan. 2, 2009, 07:45 AM
What I ment by "back yard" was non-show breeders.
I would also appreciate any "small" breeder info, perhaps a family that has one litter a year that has great family dogs.


Showing is how dogs are proven to be what they were intended to be. The animals are shown to be as close to the standard as possible in conformation. They are shown to be able to perform the job they were bred to do amongst other criteria. I am all for taking in a rescue and have two myself, but I am not at all for supporting back yard breeders. That needs to be left to the pro's. I have owned this breed for 30 yrs now and would liike to think that they will always be here in quality. ONce the breeding is left up to back yard breeders it declines rapidly. They all think their dogs are breeding material when not. More than 85% of dogs should not be bred. Why don't you just adopt a dog that is already born and not encourage more indescriminate breeding. IF you are truly looking for a dog of quality let me suggest Kimbertal KEnnel in Kimberton, Pa. They are well known for quality pups. I have owned three of their dogs and could not have been happier. I did pay $2500 for my last one and with anything else, you get what you pay for. My first one was a $200 backk yard breeder dog and thank the gods Ive grown up and learned a lot from there. She came down with Parvo on the way home and had an unbelievable amount of conditions which would have not occured with a breeder who did genetic testing and bred for correctness.

Bluey
Jan. 2, 2009, 07:56 AM
If I wanted a pure bred dog, I would start with the breed representative from the AKC list:

http://www.akc.org/breederinfo/breeder_search.cfm#611

They can refer you to your local breeders and then you can go from that.

Kimbertal Dobermans are more of a commercial kennel operation, that, at least long time ago, bred for large size and the sharper, working dogs.
Those places guarantee their dogs, so if one doesn't work, you can exchange the puppy for another.:eek:
Well, who is going to do that, once they have a puppy in their arms?:no:

I would look around your area to see what those that are breeding and showing in agility and obedience have, as those tend to be bred to be the more pet type but sound dogs.

Find some dog shows and go watch who is showing and what their dogs are like.
They can tell you who may have puppies and what kind of dogs those are.
You at least will know more what is out there and have a better idea of what you want.

bluedapple
Jan. 2, 2009, 08:50 AM
Thanks for everyones insight!

Okay Dobe experts, whats the personality difference between males and females?

I currently have a rescued male that is not dominant, but not submissive either.

I fell like, a place like Kimbertal, I can't tell how the paretnts were as family dogs. They live in a kennel, right, not the home? I would like to know that the parents were great as a family member, and with children.

I do think that Kimbertal dogs are BEAUTIFUL though

Thanks for everyones help

WaningMoon
Jan. 2, 2009, 09:29 AM
Kimbertal does breed for large dogs and I have a 125 lb one from there now. They do raise many within their family. They also have many pet quality pups which they sell for less as any good breeder does. We have three vets here who send ppl their way to buy a Dobe who they will be raising amongst children as they are very well known for their temperments. They absolutely guarantee these dogs, tempermanent as well. I have raised foour little girls amongst KImbertal Dobes. ONce I even came into the living room to find my 8 month old who I was nursing nestled inbetween my new litter nursing right along with them. Yah, Im sure there are those who will say oh, gross. To me it was the ultimate example of their temperaments and their ability to include your family as their own. Kimbertal welcomes visits and will spend all the time a person could possibly need to ensure your success as an owner of a Kimbertal Dobe. I have never found a breeder to be as concerned with what happens once you take your pup home. They will work endlessly for you.

Male and female. My males have never been the ones to look out for me and protect me , it has always been the females I have found to be this way. She is always the one to go to the door if it is knocked upon. I like females better but have always preferred a female dog anyhow so that may just be it. My males are very loving. I find them to be more laid back and not as energetic as the females too. I find they both very much like kids and all mine find big fun in romping about with my grandkids.

IF I was starting out looking for a Dobe I would go to the Doberman PInscher Club of America(DPCA). They will take you to all of the best breeders including the one I lik eto buy from. There are several very reputable breeders available to buy from. IF you have kids I would be very careful with rescues as you don't know how they were raised and what the hell they hvae been through. I have known of several very poorly bred Dobes from rescues who were supposed to be great with kids who turned out not to be.

sisu27
Jan. 2, 2009, 10:12 AM
You seem to be contradicting yourself there.:confused:

In one hand, you are asking people to get a rescue dog, of unknown breeding and in the other hand you are asking people to quit being irresponsibly and breeding "xxxxxx bad dogs".

If all quit breeding, that means the responsible, good breeders, there will only be those left to buy/rescue "xxxxxxx bad dogs" left, since those people won't quit breeding.

It is the same with horses or dogs.
Those that are very good breeders produce the really good individuals, that by being good are in demand and so have a better chance at a good life.:cool:

The bad breeders, it is anyone's guess what the dogs they produce will be when mature.

I don't think that anyone is trying to discourage the OP from getting a rescue, only understanding that this time that is maybe not what the OP wants and that it is ok.:yes:

No, I'm not contradicting myself but thank you for further explaining my point for those that missed it. I am talking about the people who get a purebred from a breeder or not and insist on having a litter of pups. No good breeder is going to give you a breeding contract anyways so I doubt this quality of dog should be bred, yes? I wish people had to be licenced to breed anything (including each other but I digress) as they don't the only thing I can do is try to rescue to help with the abundance of animals. I guess that is why I have OTTBs too. If only "good breeders" existed that would be great but who draws the line and makes that distinction? I'm not idealistic but I am realistic and think that if less demand was shown for puppies that eventually less puppies would be bred. The only way is to make it less profitable.

I have never had a bad experience with rescuing as a poster described here but I have always gone through a Dobe rescue org. As with breeders I suppose there are good and bad. I tend to think that it shouldn't be easy to get a dog and am willing to jump through a few hoops to prove I am worthy/responsible but I understand it can be anxious waiting and time consuming as well. I don't hate breeders but I do love dogs and until the numbers are in check I think they should breed only enough to maintain their bloodlines (ok maybe I am idealistic!) if they really care at all.

I would highly discourage the OP from even getting a Dobe if they want a super healthy long-lived dog. Get a terrier because Dobes are always a crap-shoot (VWD, Wobblers, DCM, cancer, bloat/torsion...) and you can't breed to eliminate all of those. Regardless of what a breeeder tells you I don't believe you will necessarily get a healthier dog from them than from a rescue...they don't die in their sleep from old age either way.

Also I don't get why everyone is assuming the rescue dogs are all hideous, back-yard bred, sickly beasts. Have a look, they aren't. Yes, a responsible breeder will avoid having dogs turn up on Petfinder by taking them back but that is not always the case. My current rescue is AKC registered and was purchased from a "good" breeder in Chicago area as a watch dog for a car dealership. He looks NOTHING like the breed standard for Dobes so is a good example of papers being worth nothing. He is a lovely dog in his own right though and I wouldn't trade him for anything.

I am sorry to keep draging this off track but this is something I am very passionate about and it breaks my heart to go on petfinder. If I could I would save them all.:cry:

Oakstable
Jan. 2, 2009, 10:36 AM
We love Dobies and have # 4 and 5. Numbers 1 and 2 we bought as puppies. No. 3 was a rescue and that did not work out. He had been kept in a crate too much and he had no self confidence.

We have a huge back yard which is fenced. Beyond that is the horse property.

We don't let the Dobies go back with the horses.

The young male in particular needs tons of free exercise. I don't think he would do well in a normal sized residential back yard. He also needs a playmate. (Poor female who has to dodge under the shrubs to get away from him.)

They are good dogs to have in the house. They don't like cold and wet weather. Getting both of these dogs outside to pee when it is raining is quite a feat.

A lot of property insurance companies look askance at Dobies and other large breeds so you can find yourself without ranch insurance. We want to get quotes on our farm insurance just for comparison. I would like to know from other ranch & Dobie owners what company carries their farm policy.

EquusMagnificus
Jan. 2, 2009, 10:55 AM
I have two Doberman crosses, one is a 4 year-old female (crossed with German Shepherd) and the other is a 7 week-old male (crossed with Rottweiler).

My bitch would never ever hurt a horse or a cat. She was raised with them and they are her bestfriends! Plus the cats beat the crap out of her anytime, she's such a wussy ;) Looks the mean part but sure does NOT know how to play it!

My male is still too young to cause any problems but he is already getting used to the horses and plays with the cats. The cats teach him the ropes in life such as No means No. ;) I really don't anticipate him being a problem either with horses or cats because by the time he is old enough to do any damage, he'll be so used to them as friends, not as threats.

I'd say that a lot of it has to do with the way they were raised and of course, how the owners deal with the dogs. ;)

scrtwh
Jan. 2, 2009, 11:03 AM
Just a thought, and I did not read the entire thread so forgive me if this has already been covered, but you may want to check with your home insurance. Many Insurance companies will have an additional coverage charge for the "guard dog" breeds.

GettingBack
Jan. 2, 2009, 01:09 PM
Regarding male vs. female temperament, it seems that the consensus is that males are more goofy and comical, and females are slightly more reserved.

I have one of each, and I wouldn't trade them for the world. My male, Obie is indeed goofy and comical. He's what is known as a "hard dog", which makes him a bit of a challenge once he has an idea in his head, but he's still VERY trainable. At 13 1/2 months, he heels almost perfectly, is great on the burlap (we are learning to compete in Schutzhund), tracks wonderfully and is great around the house. He's very confident, great with kids, is fine with strangers unless he perceives danger, and loved our cat, who sadly passed away due to unrelated issues.

We also have Bella, who is 4 months old. She's definitely an "easier" pup than he was. Definitely more sensitive, and she was shyer, but we just spend a lot of time socializing her, which has made that go away. She will never be as brave as Obie, but she is solid in temperament.

People's reactions vary with regard to them. I did not crop either of their ears, and they are both dilutes (Obie is a fawn, Bella is a blue) so often times people don't know that they are dobes. We take them in public quite a lot and they draw a LOT of attention, which we take advantage of. On new year's eve we took them downtown to see the ice sculptures, and they were surrounded by a throng of children, which they both love, and we took it as an opportunity to have them be ambassadors to the breed.

Any dog will be entirely "what you make of them". Given enough exercise and training, a Doberman will be the best dog you ever had. I can't imagine owning another breed now, they simply are the best.

Griffyn
Jan. 4, 2009, 11:04 PM
My males have mostly been "goofier" slower to mature and have a definite sense of humor. My girls have been a bit quieter, probably smarter in their own way.

msrobin
Jan. 4, 2009, 11:16 PM
I currently have a doberman He is actually considered a warlock doberman meaning he is way bigger than your typical dobie. He is 120 pounds and 28 inches tall. He is purebred and is the best and smartest dog I have ever owned. He behaves like a person it is strange. He loves the horses and all animals, he loves trying to play with my new horse he will stand by the fence and try to get his attention then run back and forth till the horse follows him. It is part of a bonding thing he does. He also will care for any type of animal, loves cats, rabbits, snakes etc.
The best thing is he is the best guard dog, no one gets out of the car when he is out and no one around. The UPS and Fedx guys freak out. However if we are around he is a gentle angel that wouldn't hurt a flea but, if someone were to break into our home he would eat you alive and I mean that completely... when he barks or growls he rattles the windows.

We got ours at a local animal control where he almost died with a terrible case of heartworms. We treated him and it was money well spent. He is 8 yrs old now and I hate thinking about the day when he is no longer with us. By the way our other dog is a 6 pound chihuahua who likes to ride on his back! It is a hoot!

Oh and one other thing, I have owned many different types of dogs over the years and the doberman sheds more than any of them or all of them combined. I am constantly sweeping and washing dog blankets and vacuuming. It is a never ending process. I always wondered how can he still have hair with all that shedding! It is worth the trouble to have such a nice boy in our lives.

See him on his Dogster page
http://www.dogster.com/dogs/217791

GettingBack
Jan. 5, 2009, 07:21 AM
I hate to correct you, Ms. Robin, but there really are no Warlocks. There was a doberman by the name of Ch. Barong the Warlock in the 1950s-60s who became really popular as a stud. He became SO popular, that the name Warlock became synonymous with "Good" Dobermans.

Here are a few links to read :)
http://www.dpca.org/PublicEd/PEC/PECWarlock.html
http://www.gentledoberman.com/kinds-colors-10.php
http://www.webspawner.com/users/jkkseurodobermans/warlockdoberman.html

What you do have, however, is a really good Dobe I'm sure and a great pal :)

Regarding visiting a breeder - the DCPA puts out a great breeder list, and it's well worth a look. Be prepared to be asked a lot of questions - good doberman breeders are a rather picky bunch - just like good horse breeders - they will want to know how you plan on taking care of the pup.

I would, personally, go with a young pup if I planned on acclimating them to other animals etc. - with ANY breed of dog. I had a lovely sheepdog type that ate an entire flock of baby chicks once - and she was the most gentle thing ever.

Training is very important for these guys - not because they are some big scary horrible dog, but because they are very high energy - and will get frustrated if they aren't given enough mental and physical stimulation. I find that in lieu of enough physical stimulation, mental work really tires these guys out (i.e. taking them into public and having them do obedience work etc.) and much faster - so be prepared for that.