Myelogram/ cervical decompression surgery

[3Hanns]

Has anyone been through any of these procedures? If so- what was the outcome?

My Mare has been having neuro. issues...where she loses control of her hindquarters, staggers, cannot balance...then when given bandamine, recovers w/in an hour...showing no more neuro. signs....returns to normal. This has happened 3 times w/in the last 4 months (vet hospital at first thought she was going into shock from an allergy- long story), but it recently happened again where we were able to catch it early, and see the symptoms as soon as it occured, and it is not allergy, but neurological.

Neck x-rays show major arthritis on all cervical vertebrae, many irregularities...and fractures in her neck (very old).

Vet feels neck issues are impeding on spinal cord, when she gets up from laying down, or tweaks it a certain way...which causes these brief neuro. episodes...

One option vet recommended was Myelogram to see if decompression surgery is an option...has any one been through this?

she is not in work, and really has never been in work since I have owned her, currently she is on stall rest from her recent DDFT surgery...

My poor girl...I have owned her about 2.5 years...and she has had one issue after another...she is my absolute best friend, the kindest, sweetest horse... whom I love dearly...I am at a loss as to what decisions I should make...I wish she could talk...

Any info on what Myelogram showed, and outcome of surgery for spinal cord decompression (recovery, pain level, etc) would be great...

thanks!

[Fantastic]

Hi! So sorry to hear about your sweet mare. Do you know if she ever had an injury? Yes, if only they could talk . . .

So, is decompression surgery the same or different than adding a stint or screen? I have a horse that had that type of surgery as a foal, but I did not own her back then. She had a freak pasture accident at a few months old where she somehow broke her neck. I know she has an area with two screens to repair the broken vertebrae. My mare does not have much range of motion in her neck, but she is able to walk, trot, canter, do flying changes, pirouette at will in the pasture. She has never been a riding horse, but I have dreams of riding her around my farm bareback. Does that count? :-)

[3Hanns]

Of course that counts :)

I assume she had it before I owned her (though I obviously did not know about it) as it is very old...vet said probably an old pasture accident, or flipping over, etc. and the more time that passed, the more arthritic, and damaged it became. When I bought her she was ridable, but VERY stiff in her neck (for good reason!)

the way the vet described the surgery is they add a "metal basket" into the vertebrae of the neck...to prevent it from damaging the spinal cord.

So happy your horse is playing in the pasture- gives me hope!

[caryledee]

I did a lot of research on this at one time. One of my horses started having neurological issues and they found some arthritis in his neck from an old injury. I couldn't afford the surgery, and he was sound enough to be a trail horse, so I found a good home for him.

There are a lot of horses that go through this surgery and go on to live comfortably. Seattle Slew is probably the most famous example; he had the surgery and was able to breed for another season or two. Unfortunately, it isn't 100% effective and the more damage there is to start with, the more likely surgery will not be effective. A myleogram is really the only way you can tell what is going on though.

I'd recommend sending the x-rays to a vet that does a lot of these surgeries and get his/her opinion on if a myleogram is advisable. Dr. Stephen Reed, who is now at Rood and Riddle, was incredibly helpful with my case. He always returned my phone calls quickly and answered all my questions, even though I wasn't a client of his.

Good luck; I am sorry you have to go through this. I know first hand how agonizing it is.

[Laura855]

I have a mare that had this sugery about 2 years ago. She was 9 years old and had been my A/A hunter. She began to be NQR behind and vet determined she was neurologic. She was diagnosed and treated in CA at
San Luis Rey by Dr. Barrie Grant (he did Seattle Slew's surgery). The myleogram showed a 50% compression between C-5,C-6. Her symptoms were mild... a 1-1.5 on neuro tests and she had been doing her job well up to that point. Since she was mild she was considered a good surgery candidate. They said they usually can improve up to 1 lameness grade, which could make her normal.

She came through the surgery fine and the recovery was really not that bad. 2 mos stall rest followed by 2 mos hand walking, then adding a bit of trot. Then it was much like any rehab.....long and slow. At 6 mos walking under saddle, at about a year back to regular work. She initially seemed perfect, no neuro deficit at all. But as her workload increased, she started to regress a bit. We checked the placement of the basket and all was fine. In the end, she still has an intermitent hind end weakness, more so on the right. And she would have a hard time jumping from a close spot and would stop if it was too deep. It wasn't a dirty stop, more like she just couldn't push off. And she was never a stopper so I new it was time to retire her, it wasn't fair to keep asking her to work. Other than that, she has no issues. Her neck is a bit stiffer laterally, she can flex at the poll and stretch down normally. She has never tripped or fallen, no issues like that. She still moves a 10 and can buck and play all day long. She is perfectly fine to do flatwork and cavaletti. Only someone who knows what to look for can find a deficit at all. She has been turned out for about 9 mos now and is happy as can be. Now that she is comfortable barefoot, I hope to start working her a bit and doing some light trail rides.

I have no idea what caused my mare's wobblers. She vetted perfectly when I bought her as a 5 year old. She may have been born that way, had an accident, or been overfed as a baby ( I have heard it may be related to OCD). It's a shame as she is a super fancy mare, perfect hunter and we did very well at the big AA shows. But not knowing the origin of the issue, I won't risk breeding her.

Let me know if you have any other questions about the surgery and the recovery. I know it is a hard decision to make and I am sorry you have to make it at all. Best of luck to you.

[ColoredHares]

3Hanns, I just got back from Ocala where my 5 year old had a mylegram. He came through it GREAT! :D It was thought that he had a bony compression that was causing him to have neurological issues. He has a history of tripping, and then in Sept collapsed at the canter.
The vet did the mylegram twice, and did not find any bony compressions. She has sent the scans to Dr. Rood for his review. But, she also did an ultrasound, and found a lot of remodeling around C6-7 with a lot of fluid present. She suspects that this may be causing the issues. She injected C6-7 with predef and depomedrol. Hopefully, we will see an improvement in 5 days. She also prescribed 10,000 IU of Vitamin E daily (Smartpak has the best price).
Regarding the mylegram......she did ask me several times if I knew exactly what they had to do to my guy to do the test. Apparently, they bend the neck in extreme positions in order to get clear pictures. She repeatedly cautioned me that doing this test could make him worse..... (the yearling in the stall next to him never did get up while we were there :().
Laura has gone through this as well as Hattie. They were both very kind to share their experiences with me--which gave me the support to go through with this. Since your mare is older, and has positive issues, I would suggest you definitely do research before putting her through a mylegram. Where are you located?

Good luck!

[3Hanns]

Thanks everyone for the responses! I am located in Southern Ca...

I did discuss injecting the neck w/ her vet and neuro radiologist (Dr. Rantanden). They both agreed there is too much damage to all vertebrae in neck (c2-c7), they would have to inject them all, and would be temporary...and may not help symptoms at all...

they also said the decompression surgery may not help, but myloegram will show more details

The hardest part of this, is she passes a neuro exam when she is "normal". It is when she gets up from laying down, or tweaks her neck that she has these violent episodes occur (horrible to watch, and terrifying for her)....then she recovers w/in a short time (with bandamine)...and is back to her normal happy self...

She is 11 years old...

[3Hanns]

Coloredhares-

"She repeatedly cautioned me that doing this test could make him worse..... (the yearling in the stall next to him never did get up while we were there )"

Do you mean during mylegram (did not wake up from anesthesia), or in stall recovering (after waking up)?

just trying to determine pain level...

thanks!

[ColoredHares]

3Hanns, you have a PM.

[caryledee]

ColoredHares--What is the prognosis on your horse? Do they think the injections will be a permanent solution?
I really wish I could have gone farther with the treatment in my horse's case; it just wasn't possible at the time. :(

[UT]

Dr. Barry Grant at San Luiz Reye is the one who pioneered the basket technic and was the one who operated on Seattle Slew. He talked about setting up a website . It may be up and running aleady.

My horse had an injury and had the surgery done jan 2004. It takes a lot of time and effort but he was able to return to compete at Grand Prix dressage.

Good luck with your mare

[Fharoah]

I have heard a sucess story using tildren and shockwave theropy on neck troubles in horses, no personal experience though.

Best Wishes!

[Simkie]

Thanks everyone for the responses! I am located in Southern Ca...

I did discuss injecting the neck w/ her vet and neuro radiologist (Dr. Rantanden). They both agreed there is too much damage to all vertebrae in neck (c2-c7), they would have to inject them all, and would be temporary...and may not help symptoms at all...


I hate to say it, but if she has that much damage, what are you hoping that the myelogram will show? You can't fuse the whole neck. And if your horse has issues with getting up, will she even be able to rise following anesthesia?

My horse has changes at c6/c7 and we injected and put her on gabapentin with good results. She was very affected by moderate changes in one place...I can't imagine the sort of pain your horse is in.

Good luck. I would not want to be in your shoes.

[3Hanns]

I hate to say it, but if she has that much damage, what are you hoping that the myelogram will show? You can't fuse the whole neck. And if your horse has issues with getting up, will she even be able to rise following anesthesia?

Yes- those were my thoughts exactly...I emailed her vet, and am going to have Dr. Barry Grant review her x-rays (he would do surgery)...from what her vet said the myelogram will show IF she is a candidate for the surgery, and we can decide if we will wake her up from the anesthesia...depending on what it shows.

NORMALLY she gets up just fine...it's when she "tweaks" her neck a certain way it causes these major neuro. events.

I really need to know HOW bad her neck x-rays are and what her quality of life will be if I do decide to do the surgery, odds of full recovery, etc...her DDFT injury compounds the matter even further...

It's a very tough situation...and very sad.
thanks for all of the responses...

[Pookah]

I count myself as lucky to not have personal experience with this (I had an EPM horse, which is enough neuro involvement for me!), but I actually noticed more your comment that this horse "has had one issue after another." That would actually concern me more than anything else. I have taken care of a lot of post-surgery patients, and I can tell you that any surgery is REALLY tough on a horse. In my experience, horses that have one thing after another go wrong, and one complication after another, just tend to not recover well. I would suggest really giving some thought to how well you see this mare going through testing, surgery, and recovery. Certainly there is no right or wrong answer, but to spend money, time, energy, and pain on something that is unlikely to have a good outcome just doesn't benefit you or her, so I would be certain that surgery is the path you want before going down it. Good luck, and hugs! I know that can't be an easy situation.

[Fantastic]

3Hanns - I believe Dr. Grant is the one that did the surgery on my mare when she was a foal living in California. I met him in October and asked. He thinks he remembers my mare, but that was years ago. My mare is 12 years old now. The surgery for two vertebrae is not cheap - probably around 10K not including the myelogram, because I asked him the cost.

When my mare had her freak accident as a foal, she could not lift her head up off the ground. Surgery and 12 years later, she has minimal range of motion in her neck, but she has never know otherwise. She cannot bend around to scratch her flank or look behind her. She cannot scratch her chest or her foreleg. She cannot lift her head very high (dentals or tubing her when dehydrated or colicy is not easy). Her neck muscles are very hard and her neck is stuck in a big arabian like arch. She moves like a gigantic swinging ladder with no latteral bend - all 16.3 hands and 1400 pounds of her. On the other hand, she appears to be very happy to be alive. Like I mentioned earlier, her movement has not really been compromised. It's too bad she was not able to follow in her mothers footsteps of dutch predicates. Her dam is a keur, preferant, prestatie mare.

It's true about some horses with health issues being more prone to additional issues, and have difficulty recovering. Aside from this happening to her so early in life, she has had reproductive issues and several colics. I have had her colic on two occasions post foaling. The latest episode was this summer and she somehow ended up ataxic (amazingly was not very ataxic before) and strange moving in her hind end as a result. I am not going to breed her ever again.

I feel for you and the position you are in with your beloved mare. Hopefully the experiences I have had with my mare give you more insight on how things could be for your mare after the surgery. *Hug*

[3Hanns]

thanks Fantastic- would you do this surgery again?

[Simkie]

I wonder how having such limited range of motion would affect a prey animal. Fantastic's mare was just a foal and obviously adapted. But an older horse?

I imagine being so limited would be similar to being blind, at least partially so.

[Fantastic]

3hanns wrote: thanks Fantastic- would you do this surgery again?

You mean, like if money was no object? I wasn't the lucky person that had to pay for all the major expenses on this mare, and boy, they really added up for Odessa! Maybe we should ask my mare's former owners?;) She was the most outstanding foal they had ever created. They sold her for 25K as a foal to a gal on the short list (market was so different back then - based on her bloodlines, movement, and success of her siblings. Deal obviously didn't go through, but they put about $15,000 into her in myelograms, xrays, surgery, recovery when she was just a few months old. They thought she'd be a super broodmare just like her mother was, but she lost/reabsorbed or aborted 4 yrs worth of pregnancies = $$$$$. Did one e.t. and she finally carried a foal full term while on regumate the entire pregnancy (add $1,500 on top of normal pregnancy expenses for each pregnancy).

My poor girl - she really has had a rough life - alot of emotion and pain. Odessa's former owners/breeders got out of breeding dutch horses after 20 years, so I acquired her. She's given me 3 foals, on aborted foal, and one year of trying e.t. twice that didn't work, and one year of multiple attempts at getting her in foal and no success. And two major colics - impaction and gas/impaction.

Of course some of this is par for the coarse - the more horses you have, the more breeding you do, the greater chance of having losses, difficulties, what have you. But for all of this to happen to one sweet mare; it's a little much.

I never want to see a horse suffer either way, but would I do it all again knowing what I know now? No, probably not. Odessa's former owners had good intentions; I'm sure they never imagined she'd follow such a rough road in life. With Odessa - she was so young at the time of her accident and had her whole life ahead of her as a potential broodmare. She has never known life as a "normal" horse.

I think it is situational. It is totally different if a horse has lead a normal, healthy life, been ridden, etc.. If it has an accident and starts to suffer, a person needs to look at the quality of life it would have post surgery.

On the other hand, I have a different horse with minor wobblers AND kissing spines (see a thread on kissing spines). Dr. Grant evaluated him. If money was no issue (like if I won the lottery - hmmm, I guess I need to purchase lottery tickets to win, right?), I would spend the $10,000 or more on neck surgery for him to see if it would help. His ks is right under the saddle area, and I am going to give tildren or injections a shot this spring. I have heard great things about tildren helping all sorts of issues. If it does not work, he'll just be a pasture ornament for the rest of his life! I might have to change the name of my farm to "Fantastic's Farm for Wayward Neurologic Horses"!

[Laura855]

I just wanted to to wish you the best of luck with whatever you decide to do. It seems like just yesterday that I was struggling with the same difficult decisions. There is no right or wrong you just try to do what's best for the horse. Would I do it again? That's a tough one because the end result is the same for my mare......she is retired. But that is partly because she is a very dominant and difficult mare so it would be very difficult to find her a new home. But if I didn't do the surgery I would most likely always wonder "what if?" I do know that she has a very good quality of life and has minimal loss of range of motion in her neck. She runs, bucks, plays, eats, rolls, all normally and is much happier being a pasture horse than a show horse. Dr. Grnat did my horse's surgery so if you have any questions feel free to PM me. Good Luck.

[3Hanns]

Thanks- I am still in deciding/investigating mode...it's so hard. if she had only one or two vertebrae w/ issues, and the odds were positive for a normal happy life...I would be leaning towards giving it a try...but since she has so much damage to all vertebrae in her neck...I really need to know odds of success, and quality of life. The last thing I want to do it put her though this, and it be unsuccessful, or even initially successful, but then another vertebrae causing same issues...

all questions, I am waiting to have answered from vets....



Happy Holidays to everyone