WWYD?

[Rebelpaintrider]

Ok, long story short, My one paint has been throwing me for a loop lately, He's become amazingly touchy around/on his flank to the point where he spins his butt towards you, pins his ears, tries to bite and/or kick you. He's had lymes 2times, we thought he had it again, on doxy he went, did nothing to help this. So, I call my vet. for a week I call this guy everyday, 7 days and I get nothing, no return call, nothing! So I begin to get annoyed and take some advice from here to get him a massage, which is going to get tomorrow. I'm sitting at work and my phone rings, a woman from the barn who's seen his behavior calls, and says another woman is having the vet come out to give her horse a shot, did I want him to look at Toby, I do... so he did, he never calls back so I can never meet him at the barn, (which DRIVES me nuts!!) Toby stood like a gentleman for the vet, He ran his hands and put pressure all over his body, inc. his flank and such, nothing, didn't pin his ears or anything. I get to the barn theres the bill, it says Ace him before every ride... I would never do that! He's never needed to be drugged in his life! Cantering this horse is almost impossible, he shows tons of discomfort and I don't feel I should be riding a horse in pain, My saddle fits him well. I guess I'm almost thinking my vet doesn't know whats wrong with him and want's me to Ace Toby to mask the pain temp. Some reason I don't like the sound of that...


What would you do? Find another vet? Ace him?

:(

[sid]

Why the heck would you drug a horse without finding out the root cause of their change in behavior and/or discomfort?

Find a new vet. He's using a bandaid and that's really not fair to your horse. Find the root cause.

[Foxtrot's]

Your horse is telling you something in the only way he knows how. From your description, what you got was not good enough. Get another opinion.

[Tree]

Since he didn't react to the Vet touching his flanks, I'm going to ask if you touch him in another spot at the exact same time you have touched his flanks?

Seems odd he was non-reactive to the Vet so maybe it isn't his flank for some other part you've been touching at the same time OR, you and he have something else going on having to do with him telling you off. I hope saying that doesn't offend you, that's not my intention. It's just the thought that you've been some how sending him signals that have encouraged him to react the way he has.

Tree

[Gayla]

I think your vet doesn't want to work with you. Can you get another one? I would never accept that diagnosis. It sounds like a brush off to me. I also would never trust a vet that would recommend ace for a horse b/f riding. Totally unacceptable...almost derelict if you ask me. :no:

[Seven-up]

Besides the fact that ace won't even help with pain, just send him into space.

I had the thought that it might be something you're doing as well, but I wouldn't put too much emphasis on that until you get a 2nd opinion. Find a new vet, and maybe in the meantime, you could do a little informal experiment. Have a few other people touch him and see if he reacts. If he doesn't flinch with anyone, maybe it is you. I'd still find another vet and get a thorough exam. Even if you're the only one who can make him do it, it doesn't mean he's not hurting somewhere. You just know the sweet spot. Or I guess it's the sour spot. ;)

[Rebelpaintrider]

Since he didn't react to the Vet touching his flanks, I'm going to ask if you touch him in another spot at the exact same time you have touched his flanks?

Seems odd he was non-reactive to the Vet so maybe it isn't his flank for some other part you've been touching at the same time OR, you and he have something else going on having to do with him telling you off. I hope saying that doesn't offend you, that's not my intention. It's just the thought that you've been some how sending him signals that have encouraged him to react the way he has.

Tree

I've already asked for numbers of other vets.
Toby reacts the same if you touch some place else the same time as his flank... It's almost like he is ticklish, but riding him doesn't say that. He'll walk fine, Trot you have to ask, and no matter what Cantering is not comfortable for ether of us. Last time I tried to canter him I ended up hitting the ground *from a crappy half a$$'d canter* and bruising my knees up pretty bad to the point where they were black for 2 weeks and I couldn't walk, After the fall I tried to get up and right away fell back down.

Really this horse has had a rough life, and deserves to be in comfort, even if I can't ride him anymore, I still NEED him to be "right"

But as I said, I wasn't able to get out to meet the vet, so all I know is from word of mouth. Maybe the vet didn't push the right spot is what i'm thinking, but I can never get him out when I am available. Give me 2 hours notice I can be out there, not 15 min when I work 45 min away.

The thing that really annoys me is that he will NEVER call you back no matter how many times you call him (office or cell) and by no means am I one of those people who call for everything...

Some people...:no:

[Rebelpaintrider]

Besides the fact that ace won't even help with pain, just send him into space.

I had the thought that it might be something you're doing as well, but I wouldn't put too much emphasis on that until you get a 2nd opinion. Find a new vet, and maybe in the meantime, you could do a little informal experiment. Have a few other people touch him and see if he reacts. If he doesn't flinch with anyone, maybe it is you. I'd still find another vet and get a thorough exam. Even if you're the only one who can make him do it, it doesn't mean he's not hurting somewhere. You just know the sweet spot. Or I guess it's the sour spot. ;)

After the phone call after the vet left, I thought maybe this is a sick twisted game for him, a way to get out of riding, but looking at him cantering or trying to, It doesn't appear to be.

Anyone know of any *respectable* vets around Chester Co. (Elverson/Morgantown area)?

[Flying Hill]

I had a horse who got very touchy in the hindend and started having trouble cantering. It turned out to be the early signs of EPM. When you find a new vet, consider having a neurological exam done.

[Rebelpaintrider]

I had a horse who got very touchy in the hindend and started having trouble cantering. It turned out to be the early signs of EPM. When you find a new vet, consider having a neurological exam done.


EPM:no: I lost a horse to that just short a year ago :(

UPDATE!
Toby has a massage today, All went well, She got to his Flank/Stifle area and hell broke loose, He kicked out 3 X's (Which isn't like him) Ears FLAT Back showing the huge amount of discomfort. I have the write up from her and am calling a vet Monday to see if they are taking new clients and such... Over all though, I've never seem my horse make those kind of faces he was today, He LOVED his massage :yes:

[PNWjumper]

My OTTB was like that about his flank when I first got him. He never actually kicked, but he was obviously very uncomfortable about having his stifle/flank area touched or brushed or pushed on. He also had a terrible canter. Despite having raced 10 times in the prior 6 months he couldn't hold a canter to the left. But I knew when I got him that his back and pelvis were horribly out of whack. His trot was hitchy from day one and his canter was just horrendous.

From a visible standpoint, his hips weren't even and you could very easily see that he couldn't use his left stifle the same way he could his right. Oh, I almost forgot....for the first 6 months I had him my shoer kept telling me that he thought he had neuro symptoms because he would tremble when he held up his right hind (the bad one), and he did it in a pattern that apparently felt exactly like a horse with a neuro issue. But my vet said no way, and she was right.

My chiropractor/vet and her "mentor" person (who does non-chiro bodywork) basically fixed my guy in 4 or 5 treatments. Once his pelvis was back in alignment....voila! No more sensitivity, no more ear pinning, no more acting like he was going to kick.

From what you've described I would have a vet/chiro take a look at him asap. Maybe a combo of chiro and massage will get him back on track.

Good luck!

[Simkie]

I agree that this could be neurological. I would absolutely ask your new vet about running your horse through a neuro exam.

Good luck!

[MassageLady]

Vets are not taught much in school about how to find pain and soreness the same way MT's are-no disrespect intended here, but they are more about disease/surgery/ etc.
Stick with the MT, she should be able to work it out in a couple massages, which will cost less than the vet...unless it's a chiropractic issue, then find a good chiro. Ask the MT if they think he needs to be adjusted.

[BornToRide]

Get a second opinion - could be also EPSM (especially him being a Paint) or perhaps selenium deficiency. Hindend sensitivity is often an EPSM symptom. If thats'the case MT will only have a limited affect untill the underlying issues are reduced or eliminated.

[deltawave]

How does the horse behave if your trainer rides or handles him?

[Rebelpaintrider]

I don't take lessons a lot, I have a intermediate girl who rides him every now and then (I teach) and it's all the same... I have been trying to avoid having people come near him in fear he will kick. Just how he's been lately

[deltawave]

Any chance at all this could be a learned behavior? I agree it needs to be worked up and people are on the right track with all the suggestions above, but spinning and showing the quarters and trying to bite could ALSO be an aggressive thing. Just puzzling why the horse would be mannerly for the vet and not for you or your student.

[Rebelpaintrider]

He does it for everyone, Like I said, I was not out there when the vet was, so he didn't know where exactly to look at. I'm 100% sure he's not just doing this to me and the girl I teach, he is doing this to EVERYONE at the barn, The SO, and the MT who also agreed that it was something that NEEDED to be checked out by a vet. He's never been an aggressive horse, He was used in a lesson program for beginners a few years back and Loved his job.

[PinkPonies]

Ace him before every ride??? That is the STUPIDEST thing I have ever heard. Find a new vet for sure!!

[BornToRide]

Ace him before every ride??? That is the STUPIDEST thing I have ever heard. Find a new vet for sure!!Sadly some people do this regularly to their horses :(

[Rebelpaintrider]

I'm still in a shock.... a woman who also uses him has a Tenn. Walker she aces before every trail ride.

I'll call a new vet tomorrow, would it be wrong of me to send a write up of the new vets findings to my old one? (minus name etc.?)

[Gayla]

I'm still in a shock.... a woman who also uses him has a Tenn. Walker she aces before every trail ride.

I'll call a new vet tomorrow, would it be wrong of me to send a write up of the new vets findings to my old one? (minus name etc.?)

I know it would be satisfying in some way but really why bother. You will forever burn a bridge that might as well be left standing.

[Rebelpaintrider]

I know it would be satisfying in some way but really why bother. You will forever burn a bridge that might as well be left standing.

True, I'd rather just have someone figure out what's wrong with him :)
A lot less stress on Him and I

Keep everyone posted