SPINOFF of the Hay Postings - ROUND BALES?

[Liscar]

I was reading about the amount of hay fed, outside, inside, generally, and I noticed that quite a few responders feed round bales. I was always told that was not a good thing to feed round bales to horses. Can you educate me? I'm about to bring my horses home and this may be a very viable option if it is truly "not bad" for the horse (and it would seem, that it's not). I'm frustrated with trying to find hay at this time of year for a decent price and round bales may certainly be more economical.

So, thoughts on feeding round bales, the goods, the bads and the uglys? :)

Thanks!

[minnie]

If you feed round bales, you should vaccinate for botulism.

[theoldgreymare]

I agree with the botulism vaccine if you plan on just putting them out in the field. We feed round bales in winter but don't put them out in the field whole. We cut them into chunks with a chain saw and only put out enough for the feeding we are giving. The quality of RB's we get is excellent but I have seen many from other growers that are not so great (moldy, dusty, etc.). The way we do it there is no waste, hay doesn't get wet, you see what you are feeding and we can control (to a greater extent) the amount that they are eating. More labor for us is the only disadvantage.

ETA: the cost of the botulism vaccine is money well spent. Last I heard, the botulism anti-toxin was $3k per horse.

[amdfarm]

My friends raise cattle and horses, round bales just make sense when feeding a large herd. He's been doing it more than 30 years, not vaccinated for botulism and all is well.

I've been feeding rounds for going on eight years. It's much easier. I have a decent sized herd and my hay guy delivers and sets them out for me every time he brings a load (4 at a time.) I'm not able to store them (no place to put them) and don't have a tractor to move them, so thankful my hay guy can do it for me. I just open and close gates and keep the horses out of his way.

Round bales also make things easier on the people that do chores for us if we happen to leave for a weekend.

I personally don't see anything bad or ugly about feeding rounds. It makes our life a lot simpler, especially in the winter.

[joiedevie99]

Here is a good article on why the danger of botulism is much higher in round bales. Just make sure they get the vaccine and you should be fine.

http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/livestock/horses/facts/info_botulism.htm

[jazzrider]

We have been feeding round bales for five years. I think as long as you take the necessary precautions (botulism vaccination, only feed rounds stored under cover, no mold visible and dry when you dig down). We don't cut it up, just put it in the field in an O'Neil Horse Safe ring. It takes our five horses about a month to go through two rounds. Quicker if it's really cold.

Like amdfarm, we have a great "hay man" who delivers as we need them, right into the pasture and the rings (we have two). I trust him to know what's safe for my guys, but vaccinate to be safe.

[tmo0hul]

I'd love to be able to feed only small squares, but the layout of the farm just does not allow me to pitch flakes. I have 17 acres, but virtually no fenceline access to my pastures. Therefore, feeding small bales requires me to slog through the pasture carrying hay with 5 horses hot on my tail. For as well mannered as they are most of the time - feeding time is not one of them and I take my life into my hands with my alpha mare chasing eveyone.

Anyhow - it is for this reason that I have surrendered to feeding rounds outside. During the drought this summer and fall I fed rounds that had been stored outside since they were pristine (no rain = no mold). Now I've gone to buying rounds that have been barn stored. I load up my 30' trailer and keep it tarped. Hay stays clean and dry.

Horses are happy to have hay access at all times. They are much happier and healthier, IMO, and I have no issues with botulism, etc.

[Just Wondering]

Here is a good article on why the danger of botulism is much higher in round bales. Just make sure they get the vaccine and you should be fine.

http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/livestock/horses/facts/info_botulism.htm


That article references haylage which is not a recommended feed source for equines.

FYI folks - ANY hay that is put up wet can lead to botulism - squares too.

[WaningMoon]

Any hay baled accidentally with a animal carcass inside is also cause for botulism, I believe that is serotype c, but it may be B. A neighbors two horses died three yrs ago and they found the bale contained botulism in this way. The larger bales, such as the rounds, are able to hide more, and even fawns being found in them is not all that uncommon. Mice and rabbits and whatnot are often found in many sized bales. But a fawn would likely be noticed in a square bale. The older cutting equipment like ours was, with the cutting bar that extends out eight or ten feet was especially dangerous, as it could more easily sneak up on an animal in the field. We used to find small animals , mostly rodents, in the bales when we were farming. Cows are much less susceptible to botulism than horses are.

[heelgirl4381]

IMHO, I do not like round bales. I think the hay is not good quality. Also, I might be a little biased because my large pony growing up had a case of colic from eating off a round bale. He basically gorged himself, which a lot of horses do on them. Thankfully he got through it!

[Tree]

I've been feeding round bales for 5 years and at times some of them have contained a dead animal but no cases of botulism...not even when square bales had dead animals in them and I have been feeding square bales for the past 36 years. I've never vaccinated for botulism.

The quality is just as good, IMO and here's why, the hay supplier I've been getting square bales from decided to begin round baling due to his advanced years and the difficulties in finding able bodied help that doesn't just want to drive the trucks or tractors and let the 'old men' pick up the bales, stack and unload them! So the hay is coming from the same fields, curing out the same way as before and just as nice when baled. And the same questionable bales still are found along tree lines and fed out first before they have any chance to rot, mold or combust (cause a fire). Those areas of the fields never dry properly but the hay is still good if fed ASAP.

It is a convenience in some ways and a hassle in other ways. For one, I needed a place to store the round bales. I also have to rely on my neighbor to move them since we don't own a tractor. I also bought hay rings to keep the horses from trashing them. It's convenient in that I don't have to carry hay to them daily. They have access to the hay 24 hours until the bales are finished so during the winter months I feel better knowing they have something to eat whenever they need it when it's particularly nasty out. With 5 to 6 horses eating from a 4x5 round bales, it's gone before any of it can rot so we've not had to feed it covered.

I've heard about impaction colic being associated with coastal bermuda. What I get is fescue/orchard/clover mix. No cases of colic (knock on wood) being caused by hay, square or round.

Tree

[yellow-horse]

i buy rounds from 2 suppliers, i prefer one guy because his hay is always the same type grass orchard, the other guy experiments sometimes growing something new, also his hay has alfalfa in it and i have to ask him to give me the bales with the least afalfa, he also grows bermuda but i only get those in squares for the colic reason tree mentioned
anyway, both these guys bale squares and rounds off the same fields, they have customers who prefer one or the other, the guy i prefer likes to have an idea of how many rounds you want for the season so he can figure out how much to have for his customers, he will store them for us, they are undercover and nice and clean
i have 3 horses and 2 goats, i feed hay all year,they have terrible pasture on purpsoe due to i always seem to have a cushings horse
they eat about a bale every 10 days, the hay i prefer are small rounds about 700-800 lbs, i either dump one off the truck into the shed, my husband and i can manage this, or i store it in my homemade hay storage thing, which is 2 rows of t posts with cattle panels bent over the top and tarps over it, it opens into the pasture with a gate, if its not going to rain for a week or so, i roll one bale out into the pasture. if it gets too muddy or wet, i drag it out with my pick up and then line it up with the shed and push it in with the truck
my round bale theory, i won't buy hay stored outside in the weather, i want the same quality as squares so i buy from folks who bale rounds and squares fromthe same fields, my horses get botulism shots, i avoid letting it sit in the rain, if they are eating it too fast, i cover it with a tarp for part of the day, i block off the bale with a ring my husband made so they don't trash it

[Guilherme]

Round bales are a viable form of feeding horses, particularly in larger numbers.

In our rather wet environment the key is to ensure that the whole bale will be consumed before it has a chance to rot. That means a couple of days in the winter and spring with lots of rain, but maybe a week or more in the late summer and fall when the rains stop for serveral weeks. This is not a problem if the round is fed under a roof of some sort.

Using an equine round bale feeder will reduce wastage.

IIRC the botulism toxin is anaerobic. If this is true then a well baled round (tight enough to hold together but loose enough to "breath") should not produce any significant risk. IMO a bigger risk is that rounds are often stored outside or without any weather protection. This can mean spoilage and trouble.

Haylage in some parts of Europe is routine fed to horses. I don't know if their production practices are different from those in the U.S. That could make a difference making Euoprean haylage OK and U.S. haylage not OK.

G.

[stuge]

I don't thing the actual roundbales are inherently bad. As long as it is good horse quality hay, the hay will be just as good as square bales, just baled differently. Here are the problems I have had with round bales in the past:

1. My horse is very submissive and was going out with a group of seven. Even when they put three round bales out, he wouldn't go get hay if another horse was nearby which was 90% of the time.

2. One place that fed them would not replace them when I thought they should be replaced. They expected the horses to eat the hay that they had trampled on and pooped and peed on and/or trampled into the mud.

3. Everyplace I have seen that has fed round bales, leaves whatever it is wrapped up in. So the horses have either baling twine or that netting stuff that they use left in their pasture.

So it isn't so much about the roundbales that I have issue with but about the management policies of the people that often use them. Again, before anyone gets their panties in a wad, I realize that there are people out there that are very conscientious of this kind of stuff and use round bales but around here it seems like that is not the case.

[DML]

We feed rounds in the winter. We roll it out so that there is less dust coming from the bales, and this way all the horses can eat from the bale and not get chased away from the other horses.

[kj2H1D]

I feed square bales but this thread mentions the increased risk of botulism if animal carcasses get baled in with the hay which can be more difficult to find in the round bales. But with either type of baling.... if there is a carcass, what are you supposed to do? Does that spoil the whole bale or do you just have to discard that flake or region of the bale? (I hadn't heard of this before!)

[amdfarm]

I have five horses that eat two round bales off the hay wagon and the others have one ring and then one sits by itself. Hay guy is nice enough to let me use his wagons to feed from and make delivery easier. I currently have the MONGO thrower wagon and got four w/ this load, the next load will be three as the wagon isn't big enough (w/ bars on all sides to hold more than two) and then one on the front forks of the tractor. I have to work harder because often the ones that get the lonely bale will finish before the others w/ two have so I have to pull hay and throw it in the ring for the others until the next load.

The only carcasses I've found in any hay bales (square mostly) have been snakes, baby bull snakes. :( I like snakes.

[Bluey]

Vaccinating for botulism when feeding big bales is standard recommendation from our vets.

It is like tetanus vaccinations, you may not need it for most horses, but you will never know and if you don't vaccinate and your horse comes down with it, well...

We have never fed round bales to horses because we can feed by hand as needed.
Round bales make bare spots where fed and have so much waste, be it cattle or horses and if some are very hungry, they will eat the waste and that can be bad for them.
Round bales take more careful management, although the hay in them is cheaper by the lb and it is definitively easier to feed than hand feeding small flakes.
Since we have standing grass in our pastures, green in season and dry when not and our horses go out there to eat every day, the hay we feed is more of a supplement than all they eat, so having a big bale there for them to eat all day would not make much sense anyway.

We also like the control and management of hand feeding better.

[TikiSoo]

Vaccinating for botulism when feeding big bales is standard recommendation from our vets.
It is like tetanus vaccinations, you may not need it for most horses, but you will never know and if you don't vaccinate and your horse comes down with it, well...

My thoughts exactly.
The barn where I board feeds round bales for turnout. They bale the squares first and/or second cutting, then the rounds later in the summer from the same fields.
I'm not crazy about the rounds because they are invariable moldy inside. We have several "seniors" and all cough pretty violently and IMHO it's from the mold dust in the round bales. I also dislike the bailing twine found all over the pasture, seems like an accident waiting to happen. I've found lots of undesirable stuff in the bales, most notably stalks with thorns, but hopefully it just slows them down like rocks in sweet feed.:)

On the positive side, I think round bales provides access to food all day and gives my hard working BO a break. I notice much less waste and fighting in those group turnouts then the few "double" turnouts with smaller feed tubs holding "flakes".

[county]

I feed round bales since the late 70's to 100's of different horses with no problems at all never have vaccinated for Botulism but depending on where your at you may want to. The quality of hay in a bale has nothing to do with the shape of the bale hay is either put up properly or its not. I'd never feed rounds with out round bale feeders theres just to much waster other wise for me and in the spring when the frost goes out they would tramp hay into the mud.
Some don't like rounds because they mold some if stored outside. Squares do the same thing.

[Waterwitch]

I have a great hay "family" who make high quality orchard/alfalfa round bales specifically for horses and store them inside. We are very happy feeding round bales. The horses have forage in front of them 24-7 and the big bales are huge labor savers. The key is to find a good producer.

[Tree]

I'm not crazy about the rounds because they are invariable moldy inside. We have several "seniors" and all cough pretty violently and IMHO it's from the mold dust in the round bales. I also dislike the bailing twine found all over the pasture, seems like an accident waiting to happen. I've found lots of undesirable stuff in the bales, most notably stalks with thorns, but hopefully it just slows them down like rocks in sweet feed.:)

I've got 2 horses with heaves and allowing them access to round bales always results in flareups for them so I have them in their own paddock along with the oldest horse and feed them square bales only. I don't soak the hay I feed them and they've done well.

When a round bales is finished, I pick up the baling twine. I don't cut it so it's all together in a bundle afterwards. My hay supplier uses the natural jute twine and not synthetic so when I've had anybody get tangled in it, it's broken loose without cutting skin on legs. One time a pony had a strand wrapped around his belly and one leg and the rest was trailing behind him. But I've been to places where old twine wasn't picked up and it was everywhere. The jute would break down and rot but that synthetic twine would worry me lying about.

I got stuck with a cow nettle thorn lastnight. Seems to be in most of the 2nd cut hay this year. I don't think the horses eat it but it sure slows me down having to see where I can safely pick the flakes up without getting stuck.

Tree

[grayarabs]

My horse has COPD - and is off hay completely. But barn recently starting bringing in some round bales - which are outside - covered with tarps - and hay is pulled from them to feed the horses. (what about this method in regards to botulism - I don't understand).
Anyway - the hay in the round bale I have noticed is better than the squared bales.
My horse wants some of that hay so badly - so when I am there - I have pulled off some handfuls and soak, soak and rinse. He is thrilled. I asked on the yahooCOPD group about this and round bales in general. One guy replied with interesting answer - which I had never thought about. He does his own baling - for rounds. He says that he can do his whole field in about 1/3 the time it would take for squares - which means he can bale middle of the day - when hay is the most dry - ie no morning or evening dew etc.
So that makes me wonder - especially in hot, humid Texas - about baling for squares - do they start at the crack of dawn and work until sundown - which means some bales have dew on them - and also a larger window of being caught in the rain - smaller window of baling the driest part of the day. Gotta wonder. I would like to continue feeding my horse some of the round baled hay - but now ya'll have me worried about botulism.

[Gayla]

Botulism is an organism that produces a toxin when it is in an airless environment. So, if someone were to bale up a little mouse and it rots in an airless environment and it had botulism on it then you could possibly get the toxin on the hay which the horse would eat and get sick...deathly sick. But many things have to come together to make this happen and frankly I have never ever seen an animal in a round bale or square bale. I am certain that it happens but it is rare in MNOTW. My mare currently eats a beautiful round bale. I love them and frankly I think farmers make a lot more money on them and are willing to bring them etc to get people to use them. I hate hate hate hate hate hate fooling with hundreds of square bales of hay. Hell on earth for me. :mad:

[Touchstone Farm]

Botulism aside, I just couldn't feet my horses via round bales for the respiratory risk. Seems whenever I see horses eating round bales, their heads are thrust in the bales. Seems like a way to increase the risk of heaves/COPD. I just couldn't do it myself.

[Robin@DHH]

Botulism has five strains labelled A, B. C. D. E. The A. D, and E strains are fairly
rare. The B and C strains are less rare. The vaccine covers only the B strain
which occurs most commonly on the East Coast and Kentucky area and has
been implicated in foal wobblers. The C strain is more common in the midwest
and is associated with round bales. There is on vaccine nor treatment for the
C strain. This is what I have understood from what my vet told me. So it may
or may not do any good to vaccinate for botulism if you are feeding round bales.
Talk to your own vet.

[flea]

I feed round bales since I get asthma from handling hay. Round bales limits how much I have to handle it. It is important to keep it covered if they are not going to eat it all quickly. It takes mine two weeks or so. I get 10 at a time and store them under a huge tarp and put them out as needed. You can manage their comsumption if desired. I put them out on the round bale a little while in the morning while getting ready for work. Then feed grain and put them in a paddock. When I get home I turn them out on the round bale for a long time. When it rains I feed square bales and keep the round I am feeding covered with a tarp til rain stops. Probably not practical in all areas. A ring suitable for horses helps and I always have cut and removed whatever binding there is, used to be twine now is that netting. I feel it is important not to leave it on. Not as labor free as some feeding procedures but has worked well for me and reduces visits to the doctor for asthma relief.

[Gayla]

Botulism aside, I just couldn't feet my horses via round bales for the respiratory risk. Seems whenever I see horses eating round bales, their heads are thrust in the bales. Seems like a way to increase the risk of heaves/COPD. I just couldn't do it myself.


I have never had a horse have respiratory problems from a round bale. On the contrary most horses who are fed round bales are outside most of the time and have less problems. If you ask me horses that are kept up in dusty barns with shavings are much more likely (proven) to have respiratory problem.