EPO - Its devasting consequences

[DickHertz]

I'm not going to name names, but those who want to can research and connect the dots.

A guy I know, but wouldn't call friends claimed a horse named DEEP IMPACT a few months back and the next day told me he claimed a super horse. Clean legged, not a pimple on him. Didn't talk to him for 2-3 months and saw the horse ran often, but poorly. Talked to him the other day. "Horse died from Kidney Failure. Had EPO antibodies at levels that were so high the horse would not eat for weeks, kidneys shut down, and the horse died from a bevy of issues including the kidney." This story will never make headlines, because it's just a claimer eeking it out at the lower levels, but some horsesman (AKA butchers) are given 60 stalls at racetracks and generally reverered as "great trainers" when the real truth is the only thing they care about is the percentage next to their name in the Daily Racing Form.

[summerhorse]

Sad but true. Your friend should write the Blood HOrse or TB Times. They don't have to name names except the horse, tell their story and provide the lab work and vet report. If they print it it will help bring attention to the cheats still cheating. But as long as people shrug their shoulders and go oh well nothing will be done. WE can bitch and moan all we want but until someone who has first hand knowledge and proof speaks out nothing will be done.

[Pat Ness]

It needs to make headlines and it is unbelievable that EPO is not tested. Is this true everywhere at all the tracks?

[mht]

Standardbred or thoroughbred? EPO testing is very much in use in Ontario. I personally know two SB trainers who have lost their licenses for upwards of 10 years, and were given $40,000 fines on top of that.

The one horse tested using a frozen sample, after it had gone on to win around $400,000 in the meantime. All purse money is to be forfeited, but the owner and the trainer are challenging that ruling. I think I would as well, if it involved that much money!:eek:

[DickHertz]

It needs to make headlines and it is unbelievable the EPO is not tested. Is this true everywhere at all the tracks?

I don't think it's as widespread as steroids was. Based on what I've observed, I would say that about 10% of horseman...err butchers... are using it. It is very expensive and some trainers actually care about their horse's health past the next 90 day window.

[DickHertz]

You can have a drug test done, but they won't test for EPO

[up-at-5]

What is EPO?

[DickHertz]

A blood builder which dramatically increases the number of red blood cells. More red blood cells results in a much greater amount of oxygen being processed which keeps muscles from being fatigued during a race. Muscles get tired because of a lack of cellular respiration in the muscles.

[Laurierace]

Not that I disagree with what you are saying, but the new trainer sounds like an asshat as well. In two to three months he ran the horse often even though he didn't eat for weeks? I wouldn't be so sure he didn't give him the dose of EPO that broke the camels back.

[sk_pacer]

EPO/DPO and others in that class are tested for in Ontario (as entioned), a few other Canadian jurisdictions, New York, New Jersey, Kentucky, Indiana, Illinoes, California and that is all I can remember off the top of my head. I saw a list somewhere but it disappeared after a site hijacking and I dont know if they recovered ore recompiled said list.

EPO was originally developed for human patients with pernicious anaemia, and still is used in small animal practices for certain types of anaemia. EPO is the drug responsible for the blood doping scandal in international bicycle racing as well as several deaths in the same.

RE: the previously mentioned Ontario EPO charges... the whole mess is here http://www.standardbredcanada.ca/news/12-18-08/mcfaddens-suspended-dpo-found-in-horses.html

[FairWeather]

How did they know the EPO levels were so high? Am I incorrect in understanding it's only testable within a certain timeframe?

[jennywho]

I'm curious as well. Although in no way do I discount the harmful effects of EPO, it was my understanding that it could only be tested for prior to a race (in the receiving barn?). If you tested for it after there would be no way to verify if the horse had been treated or not.

[summerhorse]

I don't know much about it but apparently there is some post race test. (from a harness racing site) http://www.harnesslink.com/www/Article.cgi?ID=6775

I think unless the horse is at the very end of the time since dosing the levels will still be artificially high.

Besides the horrible things mentioned the horse's blood can get too thick with RBC and turn to sludge essentially. It can then cause "heart attacks" when it is too thick to move through the vessels or clots or something.

Anyone using it should be banned IMO

[DickHertz]

How did they know the EPO levels were so high? Am I incorrect in understanding it's only testable within a certain timeframe?

EPO antibodies can stay in a horse's system for months or even a year. This is why Amy Albright got off scott free at Charles Town for her positive test. They claimed the previous connections could have given the drug and not them.

[DickHertz]

I'm curious as well. Although in no way do I discount the harmful effects of EPO, it was my understanding that it could only be tested for prior to a race (in the receiving barn?). If you tested for it after there would be no way to verify if the horse had been treated or not.


You are thinking of sodium bicarbonate - milkshaking.

[DickHertz]

Not that I disagree with what you are saying, but the new trainer sounds like an asshat as well. In two to three months he ran the horse often even though he didn't eat for weeks? I wouldn't be so sure he didn't give him the dose of EPO that broke the camels back.

He's a good guy and doesn't use the stuff. Honestly, he may have given the drug had he known right away what the issue was, he didn't find out until he got the diagnosis from New Bolton. I don't agree with how much he ran him either. He ran a lot when Penn was closed so he probably thought that was the best way to "train" the horse...don't agree, but that's probably what he was doing.

[gholem]

EPO antibodies can stay in a horse's system for months or even a year. This is why Amy Albright got off scott free at Charles Town for her positive test. They claimed the previous connections could have given the drug and not them.

For the second point, it really does seem like if you're running the horse, you should answer for it, end of story. If you claim it and think there's a > 0% chance it might have something in its system, you test it yourself before it runs again. Whoever let her off and set such a precedent really messed up.

Do you really mean antibodies? EPO occurs naturally in the body, so even if extra is injected, it seems odd that the immune system would form antibodies for it.

And what/where/who has lead you to believe that EPO can be detected for such a long time after injection? Everything I've read suggests it is basically out of your system in less than a day and can be detected at trace levels for maybe a couple of weeks at absolute most.

The following source:

http://www.roadcycling.com/events/tdf2003/epo.shtml

(not exactly a journal article, I'm aware)

suggests that the half-life of EPO is very short.

Here's a graph from an actual journal:

http://glycob.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/10/5/511/CWD056F6

Although it is for rabbits, the synthetic epo has almost completely dissappeared after 8 hours.

I would be curious if the behavior is quite different in horses, but I haven't been able to find anything specifically about EPO in horses.

[jennywho]

thanks for the clarification and yes, I was thinking sodium bicarb not EPO.

You know I hear about a lot of OTTB's with kidney and liver problems, I've always wondered what exactly was the culprit or if it was a combination of things.

One of the first trainers I worked for left the farm and horses behind in a hurry - long court involved story. I never knew what they were on (on a need to know basis he would tell me), but man did I see some weird reactions from the poor things in the year that followed.

There are so many good people in horse racing, but the bad ones, it's amazing the crap they do and the broken horses that they make sound.

[Calamber]

I find it horrific and agree with Summerhorse that shrugging the shoulders and just carrying on as if there is nothing to be done will perpetuate these horror. There is such a thing as the sin of omission and as far as I am concerned, is as bad as using the drug itself. Send the info to the Bloodhorse and the TB Times if you really care.

[SleepyFox]

You can have a drug test done, but they won't test for EPO

If EPO is such a big problem where you race, why don't you and the rest of the "good guys" petition for the option of an EPO test for claims? Sounds like that might be a step in the right direction for y'all. And/or start pushing for at least testing the winners for it.

You know I hear about a lot of OTTB's with kidney and liver problems, I've always wondered what exactly was the culprit or if it was a combination of things.

A lot of legal and otherwise beneficial things can cause kidney and liver problems, so be cautious about assuming it's all EPO. From what the Midatlantic posters on here say, it sounds like EPO is a problem there, but it's use isn't common elsewhere.

[Laurierace]

Penn National has way bigger problems than EPO. Their track is closed more often than its open. When it is open the base can be seen in spots. They need to close down and clean house, again.

[DickHertz]

And what/where/who has lead you to believe that EPO can be detected for such a long time after injection? Everything I've read suggests it is basically out of your system in less than a day and can be detected at trace levels for maybe a couple of weeks at absolute most.

.


Because lab testimony from the case between Amy Albright and Charles Town / Penn Gaming stated the trace levels of EPO can be present up to and possibly over a year.

[DickHertz]

If EPO is such a big problem where you race, why don't you and the rest of the "good guys" petition for the option of an EPO test for claims? Sounds like that might be a step in the right direction for y'all. And/or start pushing for at least testing the winners for it.





Two words...Penn Gaming, key word "gaming"

[caffeinated]

Here's a good article from The Horse about EPO testing:

http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=1888

Thought I'd share. I was confused (I had also been under the impression that testing for EPO was really difficult/impossible) so I looked it up.

The tricky thing seems to be that no one knows how long the antibodies stay in the system and it seems to vary between horses. (note: "trace levels" of EPO don't stay in the system longer than a few days or a week, it's only the antibodies they can test for, and horses generally need to be given EPO multiple times to develop those antibodies in the first place)

[GollyGee]

Unless things have progressed a long way EPO is very difficult to test for. Since the body naturally makes it unless you have many blood samples from the same horse to prove it has increasing levels the testing won't work well.
Its the buying of the drug and the prescriptions being written that nail the offenders. Its not something normally prescribed for a horse.
Tracking down thru drug stores/wholesalers is how most get nailed!!

[CarolinaTbreds]

How does the trainer that claimed this horse explain the fact that almost all of his horses run very poorly (he has a 4% win percentage).

I'm not saying that this guys story absolutely couldn't be true but I take anything I hear from an extremely low percentage trainer with many grains of salt as they're constantly looking for excuses to give people why they win at 4% and another guy wins at a 30% clip. They love to tell people this guy does this and this guy does that and that's why they win a lot more races than I do and usually it's a line of bull.

[DickHertz]

The guy just doesn't have the stock to compete at Penn National. If you pull the PP's for all the horses he's run, you'd see what I'm talking about.

The horse died and received a diagnosis from New Bolton. What does 4% vs. 30% have to do with anything? The guy at 4% isn't an excuse maker, he is actually a very wealthy man and trains the horses for fun with his girlfriend. He loves horses and the game, he doesn't make excuses.

[DickHertz]

Unless things have progressed a long way EPO is very difficult to test for. Since the body naturally makes it unless you have many blood samples from the same horse to prove it has increasing levels the testing won't work well.
Its the buying of the drug and the prescriptions being written that nail the offenders. Its not something normally prescribed for a horse.
Tracking down thru drug stores/wholesalers is how most get nailed!!

Yeah, that's what I've heard. From what I've ascertained, the test they run at Delaware is bull****. At Penn, a couple of trainers have been called in and told IE "this test is cloudy with EPO, stop using it." Like they're going to stop using it if they don't lose the purse (at a minimum).

[gholem]

Here's a good article from The Horse about EPO testing:

http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=1888

Thought I'd share. I was confused (I had also been under the impression that testing for EPO was really difficult/impossible) so I looked it up.

Thank you for this article, it clears things up. The manufactured form of EPO is the human version and is apparently different enough from the horse version that a horse does produce antibodies for it. And they do stay around a very long time on purpose.

They have to use direct testing in humans because we don't build up antibodies to our own form of EPO. The direct test isn't effective for nearly as long which is why most major athletic bodies (cycling and track) require random out of competition testing.

The manufactured version is very slightly different from the natural one, which is why it can stlil be directly tested for.

Another test they used to use in cycling is to simply set a limit on the red blood cell concentration of the blood. Super easy to test. It can also be used to determine if more extensive EPO testing should be done (if the red blood cell concentration is really high.)

[GollyGee]

The testing cost in equines for EPO is about $1500. I just did a quick fact check.
And Dickie I stand behind you statement regarding precentages. If you are a Stephanie Beattie or Scott Lake saddling horses in almost every race @ home base and ship outs of course you have great precentages. How does a trainer w/ maybe 10-15 head or less compete against a whole barn full. For alot of people
just to run to 6th place and get a check is a good night, not having your horse break a leg or worse suffer an expensive career ending injury, is a good night.
Then there are those who just throw caution to the wind, plug in Clem-buterol and spin the roulette they won't get super tested that night.
Fiddle w/ the Dex dosage etc. Whats 15 days off compared to a check and people who only look @ precentages then throw horses and day money @ you. Its a bump in the road, not a full blown crash n burn.
Then there are those owners who are blinded by a banged tail and fleece covered halters and white paddock bandages. Don't care about the rampant chemical abuse just want the win and to look impressive.
Ever look on the other side of some famous trainers barns where the not so fancy impressive stakes horse might have stalls, or go to the off track stabling?? Can be an eye opener, wall runners, weavers, cribbers, diggers, just plain nuts lame skinny burn-outs.
The more you saddle the bigger your chances will be, and if you play w/ EPO and have owers who don't cringe @ vet bills you have the odds stacked in your favor.
Its even harder to imagine in this game that you can drop a $25K allowance horse in for $5K and wipe the competition off the board. Just for a win photo.
In no other arena can you run your competitor up and down the scale. Like taking and Olympic show jumper to a 2ft jumper class.
There are non rules in this game that go way beyond the imagination.
But there are so many trainers looking for those high precentages to attract the client w/ deep pockets.
Don't wind me up I could spin this stuff all night n day.
Funny thing is I do NOT own a single running horse and do Not work @ track or train race horses.

[SEPowell]

You can have a drug test done, but they won't test for EPO

What a bummer. I hate epo.

Why aren't they using the test developed in 2006?

[DickHertz]

What a bummer. I hate epo.

Why aren't they using the test developed in 2006?

Because they don't care !

It took a baseball scandal for them to realize steroids have no place in racing so who knows what it will take for them to tackle EPO.

[FairWeather]

I'm not doubting the diagnosis, but just questioning how they tested. If EPO could be tested effectively, lots of folks would be up shits creek.
IMHO EPO is one of the biggest threats to racehorses, and I would LOVE to see it eradicated, I just don't think the testing is significant enough to catch the ass's who are doing it.

There are several at Charles Town that I am certain are EPO users, but know they'll never be caught until the testing becomes significant enough to detect without a doubt.

I've also had a horse go through withdrawal from EPO and it's awful. My vets told me literally "he'll live, or he'll die, and there is nothing you can do about it". He was so thin I had to keep a sheet on him at all times for fear of being called into the authorities, despite feeding him 4 times a day. He was lethargic, depressed and anorexic. It took nearly a year to get him right again. AWFUL AWFUL stuff.
He did live, but has had lasting immune issues.

Not that this is any kind of proof, but A trainer friend at Charles Town had an owner claim a nice filly from the person I believe had this original horse (in the first post--the EPO giver if i've done my research correctly). Within two weeks, the horse was on it's way to completely crashing, lost a ton of weight and looked awful. Trainer let owner know the horse was done and it would take a year to get her right, knowing what the issue was, (3 yo sound filly). So she's sitting in a field somewhere right now where she'll remain for the rest of the year.
People who use EPO are butchers and absolutely do not care about animals.

[DickHertz]

I know the same people at Charles Town you are referring to Fairweather. They use the Canadian version of EPO because it, for some reason, isn't detectable at all right now with racehorses.

I thought for a brief period of time that the Congressional hearings might scare some jurisdictions into getting real tough with drugs, but most just did "something" to show they are trying. Unfortunately, I think it's going to take a whistle blower or footage of what happens during withdrawl to just get the process started. Racing has shown that, except for a couple of jurisdictions, they are are content with the status quo.

Why can the higher % trainers at Penn get multiple positives this year for Clen Buterol and never get a 1 day suspension? Just doesn't make sense.

The person you are referring to, the owners always want to claim their horses and they just don't understand how it works - you can go with them and win races at the expense of every horse you own or you can try to play it right and hopefully make some money. I just get irritated because a lot of owners with them turn a blind eye and just think the trainers are excellent conditioners. Don't get me wrong, there are dozens of high % trainers who I believe do it right, but there are about 5-6 who run in the Mid-Atlantic I know cheat. You just simply can't move horses up the way they do by changing their feed and rubbing them more...nobody rubs horses more than I do and you can't move a horse up 20 lengths and five class levels with just TLC. When we claim them we take x-rays, pull blood, and do everything possible to make the horse better, but you can't make a horse go from a 40 beyer to a 75 like some trainers do. Obviously, there are times when some people don't pull blood on their horses and they miss something, but that is not all that common. Makes me want to just keep a couple of horses of my own to train for fun and forget trying to make a career of it. If these drug issues continue, I'm guessing I'm not going to be the only one to step away from racing.

[SleepyFox]

Don't wind me up I could spin this stuff all night n day.
Funny thing is I do NOT own a single running horse and do Not work @ track or train race horses.

Okay, I'll bite. :) So, how did you gain the knowledge to speak with authority on the subject then?

[SleepyFox]

Because they don't care !

It took a baseball scandal for them to realize steroids have no place in racing so who knows what it will take for them to tackle EPO.

Please excuse my ignorance, but what have the horsemen in your jurisdiction done to to try to get EPO testing performed? As have been posted on this thread, other jurisdictions test for EPO, so it's certainly not unprecedented. And, the tracks do have an interest in testing because it is in their best interest to provide as fair of a product as possible to the horseplayers.

[GollyGee]

Okay, I'll bite. :) So, how did you gain the knowledge to speak with authority on the subject then?


I do track lay-ups and see the end results, have a very good friend who is vet @ the track and bigger training center, have a wonderful farrier who does race horses.
I am at the tracks alot picking up and returning lay-ups as well as post surgical rehabs.Having lunch shopping w/ the girls enlightening.
Keeping my mouth shut eyes and ears wide open.:cool:
Two of my friends train as well. They run @ diffrent track and train @ diffrent locations in 2 seperate states so I hear scuttle coming and going.
I also buy and re-make OTTB's into show horses about 10-12 a year, so drug withdrawl, ulcers,stall vices, bad shoeing, over use of joint injections, wind operations etc. are all things I need to be very current on to make the wisest purchase choice, ask all the right questions and know who to buy from and who to run from.:)