How hoof size can positively/negatively effect a horse's career??

[Empressive Award]

So I had my new farrier/trainer trim my horse last night and she commented on how my filly has tiny feet, delicate bone structure, and an excellant butt. I hope she grows another inch or two and breaks 16.2 because I prefer a bigger horse, but if she doesnt grow thats fine too. She also isnt long backed, but has a deep barrel.

She also said that if she stays this petite, she will make an excellant jumper because she will be more agile.

So can anyone tell my from their personal experience with their horses over the years, how their horses hoof size has changed their plans for their horse's career positively or negatively...or if you disagree that the size of the hoof doesnt affect how well the horse moves and and carries itself?

My filly is coming 3, doesnt have baby feet, but doesnt have large feet either. My intention for her is to be an Eventer or Dressage mount, not primarily a jumper and without her being in training I dont know what she will really be good at.

Is there a way to look a horse without considering its background, parentage, and breed and determine what they will be good at or bad at? I mean I get some conformation points are more desired in specific disciplines than others, but I've never looked as the SIZE of feet as being a determining factor.

This might be an idiot question, or I might just have worded it like an idiot, but what the hay, I'll try anyways.

p.s. English disciplines are new to me so I am more familiar with QH conformation and how to determine and breed for specific traits for specific things, like cutting, reining, pleasure, etc.

[Janet]

A horse with small feet for her size is at greater risk of various kinds of foot lameness (navicular, ringbone, coffin joint problems, etc.) because all the forces are more concentrated.

But, as long as it is not TOO extreme, and you are always careful about footing (e.g.,be prepared to scratch if the footing is too hard) it is perfectly manageable.

Music has small feet.
I usually gave her time off in the middle of the summer, when the Virginia clay is like concrete.
And once I gave her 3 months of because she was NQR in her feet.

She is still sound at 22.

[findeight]

Interesting question...I have no idea, really.

But, strikes me if you wanted to jump, tiny feet on a robust body doesn't sound like the physics would work to support the weight on landing.

I do know alot of the tiny footed, big bodied QH types are more prone to navicular...I have owned them.

Depends on how small "small" really is in relation to the rest of the horse. And big feet do not necessarily correlate to soundness either.

Otherwise, shoulder and hip angles and an overall uphill build usually allow the type of movement needed for a successful jumper in any of the various disciplines.

[Empressive Award]

Jumping isnt even in my picture right now, but I am riding with an Eventing barn and the more I watch it the more curious I get about learning how to jump.

Like I said she doesnt have tiny feet, but she's just turning 3, has been a late bloomer due to her neglect and that how I rescued her, so I'm hoping that now that she has had a healthy trim, she will grow a bit more in that area.

If Im not planning to jump with her, is flat work affected by it, not considering the footing. I know that there have been arguements about the shape of a hoof and how a farrier and a barefoot trimmer will shape the foot slightly different and can alter the stride of a horse, so I'm assuming the the size of the foot does matter.

oh, and shes not a super huge bodied horse on tiny feet.

[findeight]

Not sure it is that big a deal if she is not that big and the feet not that tiny. The foot really just supports the body. It is the length and angle of the hip, shoulder and pastern that create gait and movement.

Any change to the foot must support these exsisting angles and can only make a minor change to the way any horse moves.

She is fine...stop worrying.

[goodhors]

Not tiny is relative to your experience.

A sixteen hand horse, I would expect to have larger hooves, like size 3Kerckhaerts in front, the wide web shoes. A horse of sixteen hands, wearing Diamond ones, is probably going to have problems in an excessively physical career. Size one is NOT a big foot on a larger horse. Even a horse who is not massive, needs a good size hoof with a 16h body above it.

I would expect a smaller horse, 14.2-15h, to be wearing Diamond ones in front, in a jumping situation, to have enough hoof under them to stay sound over time.

A small hoof takes a LOT of impact just carrying the horse on the flat, has less surface per pound. Jumping, when horse lands on ONE hoof, all the weight plus speed, really puts the leg/hoof design to extreme stress.

My 16.2H horses wear size 4 or 5 in those Kerckhaerts, but they are large animals with big bone to match the hooves. We pick horses with feet in proportion to body, so they CAN TAKE the work of physical demands for their jobs.

I would not buy a horse with little feet, have seen too many break down in work, or even non-work of just carrying themselves. Not built to perform in real life, just the ring.

Form to function needs to be considered HARD, before putting horse into a job they are not suited for, but you like doing. Sometimes horse just isn't going to last at all, doing that job. Lots of brokedown horses, NQR forever, young retirees, because their body was not functional in that discipline.

And of course there are always a couple animals who make liars of everyone and form to function bodies. Last for years. They are successful, but physically they are totally unsuited for that job.

[RedMare01]

I have a 16.1 hand mare who wears size 0 shoes (no, she is not a QH...an ASB as a matter of fact :lol:). She has never had any soundness issues...she is now almost 15 and I've owned her since she was four. She was in heavy training when she was young and I have done dressage with her 2-3 days a week for the last several years. I think that is quite amazing *knock on wood*, and I will tell you that I wish her hooves were larger and that I will look for that in any future horses that I buy.

Caitlin

[BornToRide]

As a massage therapist I find that the more difference there is in hoof size in the front hooves, the more uneven a horse is side to side. That will affect performance because it will be harder for the horse to maintain good balance for tight turns, etc. and any other athletic movements where good balance is required.

The more even a horse is side to side, the better the overall balance will be as well. It is also generally an indication that the horse is better able to carry itself and will have less muscle fatigue because the whole body is overall better supported and no muscles groups have to work harder than necessary.

Other than that hoof size should not hinder performance as long as the hooves had a chance to fully develop/mature for each individual horse, are correctly balanced to internal hoof structures and are not contracted.

[Rick Burten]

Other than that hoof size should not hinder performance as long as the hooves had a chance to fully develop/mature for each individual horse,
Really? Ever see a 1200 pound horse standing on an 800 pound foot(fully developed of course)?

Considering the vast number of horses in your custom(by last count, 78, right?) I would have thought that by now you would have encountered this situation.

[VarsityHero4]

My 16hh mare has tiny little pony feet that after being put into regular work caused holes that had developed in her check ligaments at a young age to become inflamed (according to my vet). Originally she was going to be a good little 3' project; now she packs my mom around the long stirrup and I'm going to breed her to somebody large next year, but mainly our plans for her were canceled.

On the other hand, my 16.2 gelding has HUGE dinner platters and the bottom of his legs and no matter how much damage he does to them (he IS 3 after all and has 2 weanling siblings) he is the most sound horse I've ever come across.

So yes, I definitely think the size of their feet definitely affect their soundness and, directly from the soundness, can limit/enhance their abilities for at least jumping.

[Tree]

I think it would depend.

IMO, hoof size should be proportionate to the size of the bone structure above them. The other concern is that the feet function adequately enough to reduce the risk of injury to them.

No hoof, no horse.

Tree

[Janet]

My 16hh mare has tiny little pony feet that after being put into regular work caused holes that had developed in her check ligaments at a young age to become inflamed (according to my vet). Originally she was going to be a good little 3' project; now she packs my mom around the long stirrup and I'm going to breed her to somebody large next year, but mainly our plans for her were canceled.
I would hesitate to breed a mare with small feet, as that feature has been shown to be highly heritable.

[GilbertsCreeksideAcres]

I have that classic big bodied, little footed QH, and she seems to always be recovering from or about to have a hoof problem. Very frustrating.

[VarsityHero4]

I would hesitate to breed a mare with small feet, as that feature has been shown to be highly heritable.

We're going to try a Hanoverian, they've definitely been proven to throw good, sound feet. Her temperament and rideability are too good to not try with one... :-) All she needs is bigger feet and she'd be perfect.

[Empressive Award]

I'm going to have to post some pictures to get a better opinion.

there are so many factors here, that perhaps I am jumping the gun and she will get bigger. I hear from a professional trainer that she is fine, she is petite and compact and now she is 15.3, but she is butt high again and going thru another growth spurt. IM hoping for taller, but givin that I dont know her parentage, I have no idea how tall she will be.

She came from a TB breeding/racing farm and considering that at her age she was never broken or started race training, she was either to be breeding stock, which is very likely considering the manager of the operation background, or she was new to the group and hadnt gotten that far yet.

She was yearling size when I got her as a 2 year old, still gangly and foal like and didnt hit a real growth spurt until August, 6 months after I adopted her, so the neglect and starvation made her a late bloomer. Since then she has steadily been growing. Her bone structure and measurements say she'll be 16hh. Her feet have certainly gotten bigger since I've gotten her, but in comparison to the older geldings (12, 15, 30), she has baby feet.

I think a picture would be best here.

Is there anything outside of balanced nutrition, adding canola oil and Biotin for healthy skin and coat, and regular healthy trims that I can do to promote hoof growth, as in the size of the hoof increases, not necessarily growing out a new hoof wall? She has excellant feet, just small.

[findeight]

I don't think anything you do will increase the actual structural size of the foot. They may grow out better and have a healthier texture with the hoof supplements but, far as I believe, underlying skeletal structure determines actual size and that is genetic. Probably spread out more barefoot but that won't really change the basic size either.

But nobody has really said it's the kiss of death here...it all depends on how small they are in relation to her size and what you want to do with her.

What size keg shoe does your farrier/trainer estimate she would wear if she were shod? That would give us a better idea of actual size. My 15.3h TB Hunter wears a 1 and has no trouble but the last one, same size but lighter build, wore that 0 and had nothing but issues.

[BornToRide]

What I am concerned about is whether or not this horse is already on its way to hoof contraction thank to incorrect trimming and toe loading, which would make a hoof more narrow that it normally would be. Can you post photos of the heels and soles while holding the hooves up?

[Empressive Award]

The only farriers/trimmers I have had out to trim my horse have never brought their euipment for shoeing, nor has the conversation come up because she doesnt need them now, and I hope she wont in the future unless she proves to need them in competition if we get that far.

Aside from her neglect and starvation prior to my owning her, this is a horse who hasnt had a single issue healthwise from day one (knock on wood REAL LOUD). No hoof issues, no concern by the vet or trimmer.

My trainer said that she has nice conformation, not perfect but nice. This is without seeing her move, just standing. People who have seen her move have said that she is very floaty and carries herself uphill, has a lovely springy trot and a floating canter. I'm hoping that these are all positives, and that I am being paranoid about hoof issues.

She was the only one this summer to not have an abcess, no cracking, nothing except normal healthy chipping at the edges of her hooves. She had a few small flares to be trimmed back this most recent trim, but nothing major that would seriously alter the growth of her feet or her gait.

I really need to get some pictures up here, but with the mud, it is virtually impossible to get a clean picture. So that is my project for this weekend when we get out to the barn for Christmas pictures.

The trimmers certainly dont seem concerned about contraction or her hoof growing to narrow, and generally have said she has normal feet, maybe only slightly effected size wise by her prior condition as a yearling before I got her.

And like I've mentioned before, this is not a horse I'm ever allowed to sell, trade, or breed so she is a life partner..God willing. I cannot pass on her good or bad genes, I cannot register her with any stud books for breeding, and I dont have her JC papers. If I compete with her, it will be solely for making a name for myself as a rider if I compete on a national level. I can make a name for her on the local level, and her value (more for insurance than anything) will go up but that factors in how much time an energy and money I am willing to put into her training. I already have 6 months worth of professional training planned and paid for to start next month for her because she is supposed to be my Dressage mount, and if she shows any talent or love for jumping, we will probably Event with my barn. That probably more money than the average person is willing to put in a horse that has no known background or breeding potential.

But if she is my pasture pal or trial buddy, I am content with that too. If she comes down with some life changing lameness, I will still keep her unless finances absolutely rule that out. In that case she will go back to the animal shelter where they would find a companion home for her, BUT that is worst case scenerio. I'm in love with this girl, I want the best for her and if anything happened to her, it would probably kill me.

I was just curious to know if there was anyone out there that had to alter their goals for themselves and their horses because the horse fell short in the hoof department, or vice versa, aside from lameness issues caused by other areas of the body.

Thanks for all the insight and opinions, I will post pictures this weekend!

[Empressive Award]

What I am concerned about is whether or not this horse is already on its way to hoof contraction thank to incorrect trimming and toe loading, which would make a hoof more narrow that it normally would be. Can you post photos of the heels and soles while holding the hooves up?

If I can get her inside and half clean from all the mud I will try to. I realize that those who support farriers and those who support barefoot trimming may immediately bash the job for one reason or the other, so I guess I am prepared for the insults on what a bad mommy I am for my horse's feet.

....not saying you plan to do that BornToRide... but I've seen what can happen on some of these hoof threads.:)

[horsecrazy]

Are they "soup can" feet? Upright in the heel?

I have two horses with very large feet - one retired Trakehner, one a 5 year old Hanoverian/TB.

Both have excellent feet by nature and go barefoot (will prob put shoes on my mare when I start showing more). The barefoot might add to the larger size of their feet, but I know that with both, my farriers have had to be careful to not let the foot splay out too much or let the sole get too close to the ground.

My friend who has an Appendix with slightly soup can feet - navicular changes at 6 years old. Eek.

So either way, too small or too large, there are things to look out for. Is your horse wearing shoes? Keeping her barefoot might help her feet expand a bit. Disclaimer - I'm hardly an expert on horse's feet, just speaking from my own experience.

[BornToRide]

If I can get her inside and half clean from all the mud I will try to. I realize that those who support farriers and those who support barefoot trimming may immediately bash the job for one reason or the other, so I guess I am prepared for the insults on what a bad mommy I am for my horse's feet.

....not saying you plan to do that BornToRide... but I've seen what can happen on some of these hoof threads.:)I know what you mean. :(
That does not make you a bad mom to me at all - I see it as an opportunity to learn more. You'll just need to filter out excessive "noise" :winkgrin:

Things that are done wrong need to be pointed out, even if this means putting down someone's work. They should either know better or also learn from it :)

[Empressive Award]

She is barefoot, and I hope I can keep her that way.

And no, I dont think her feet would be considered soup cans. They are not upright, ive seen that before and no shes not like that. But she also isnt too long in the toe. Thats primarily where my concern is. Shes just small, not upright, not long and flat, not narrow....just small.

Pictures would do more justice.

[goodhors]

We're going to try a Hanoverian, they've definitely been proven to throw good, sound feet. Her temperament and rideability are too good to not try with one... :-) All she needs is bigger feet and she'd be perfect.

If you plan to breed, make a list of the worst faults in both mare and sire. Then draw a picture of the resulting foal with ONLY the BAD POINTS from both animals. This could possibly be the result of your breeding. Can you live with such an animal, use it? If the answer is no, don't breed.

As Janet said, starting with small feet, makes it HIGHLY possible the resulting foal WILL HAVE the poor feet, in spite of the previous foals by that sire.

Breeding is not like ordering your new Dell, checking off the list of items you want in it. Huge chance of getting all the bad genes of both parents AND their ancestors in the baby.

Here in Michigan a famous QH, Midnight Sun was bred to a LOT of mares. You could guarantee the great body, big jaw head. But whatever the mare had for legs and hooves, was what the foal wore. They could be huge platters with drafty type bone, little toothpicks on pony hooves, knees and hocks pointing towards each direction of the compass and coon footed. Midnight Sun evidently stopped at the elbows in production. We used to laugh about it then, he was extremely consistant in what he threw. Yet mare was the only factor that counted in building the lower half of foals. Still do laugh when I see him named in the "famous ancestors" of a pedigree on a horse for sale. Pretzels or skinny stilts for legs on that horse? Hmmm...

Lot of other stallions like that at stud. So don't count on the other half to "Fix Up" your mare's problems in the foal, whatever the stallion owner says. No promises when it comes to breeding.

[Tree]

As Janet said, starting with small feet, makes it HIGHLY possible the resulting foal WILL HAVE the poor feet, in spite of the previous foals by that sire.

On the subject of hooves, all foals start with small feet. Not all foals will be provided living conditions that will allow their little feet to develope to their full potential. I think that is the main worry, IMO. :sad:

Tree

[VarsityHero4]

If you plan to breed, make a list of the worst faults in both mare and sire. Then draw a picture of the resulting foal with ONLY the BAD POINTS from both animals. This could possibly be the result of your breeding. Can you live with such an animal, use it? If the answer is no, don't breed.

Breeding is not like ordering your new Dell, checking off the list of items you want in it. Huge chance of getting all the bad genes of both parents AND their ancestors in the baby.


I'm very well aware of this and I have a good amount of experience with what certain combinations produce. I know the stallion personally and have seen many of his foals and what kind of traits he passes on. I'm not looking for a high level prospect, if it comes out with physical limitations, it happens. The mare is sound for 2'6'' and any kind of flat work imaginable, hardly makes her useless to start. Mom wants a baby that could perhaps take her further along in her riding, that possibility outweighs the cons of what COULD happen.

[Empressive Award]

On the subject of hooves, all foals start with small feet. Not all foals will be provided living conditions that will allow their little feet to develope to their full potential. I think that is the main worry, IMO. :sad:

Tree


Thank You! This is one of my bigger concerns with this horse. I know that TBs are known to have pretty crappy feet, but so far we have had healthy, solid feet with good texture to them i.e. not flaky, dry, too hard, or too soft, no abcesses, etc. I am just concerned that because she was part of a major seizure of horses who were of all stages of starvation an neglect and had never had her feet trimmed until I got her at 2, that I will be facing problems because of the lack of growth in size.

She doesnt have pony feet, but she doesnt have huge feet either. I am 5'6 and pretty curvy, petite in shape with small hands. If I stretch my finger tips out and put her hoof in my palm, my fingers are still visible. Not that thats an accurate measurement but just to give you a sorta mental picture. I had problems with the "krackberry" this weekend and the camera is broken, so I was nt bale to get pictures but Im hoping to tonight.

She didnt grow until August of this year when she was on excellant pasture and actually being feed by me (former barn wasnt feeding her and fields were over grazed), so up until late this summer she looked like a yearling. Im not concerned about jumping with her, but its something I'd like to try with her to see if she shows any talent for it. I'm more interested in being able to do flatwork with her and her feet being able to hold up to work 5 days a week in grass, bluestone, sand, indoot footing, and solid ground when we go out for trot sets through the woods. I dont want to have to put shoes on if I dont have to either, and to be honest I couldnt tell you what size shoe she would wear.

I need to post pictures...

[millerra]

You could be describing my old mare - 20 yrs ago

She was (and still is) a tall (16.3, really), narrow, refined, fine-boned and "small hoofed" TB mare. I was told, by the barn owners where I was boarding at the time - that she was built like a deer and much, much to fine boned to ever stand up to eventing.

Nevermind that she is very correctly built, including angles. Nevermind that she had 31 starts as a race horse and retired sound at age 5. She was much, much to fine-boned to hold up to eventing.

So, fast forward to now, when she is 22, and still sound - after having carried my butt up through prelim, + doing jumpers (up to 4 foot), and low level dressage. She also has had two babies. [so she deserves her retirement]

Now, the caveat - she is very easy on herself - a light bodied horse who lightly goes over the ground and "lightly" jumps. She is not a heavy horse - heavy bodied or heavy moving. So, in a sense, her feet match the rest of her and her way of going.

If this is what your TB mare/filly sounds like - my advice is: enjoy her and don't worry about it too much. Any horse can be sound or unsound - there is no crystal ball.

[BornToRide]

I know that TBs are known to have pretty crappy feet, but so far we have had healthy, solid feet with good texture to them i.e. not flaky, dry, too hard, or too soft, no abcesses, etc. I
Please note that most TBs probably have crappy feed because of all the high NSC diet and drugs that are thrown at them at the track , combined with incorrect trimming and shoeing! That can make any hoof fall apart! :yes:

It's NOT just genetic as many like to believe. The management has a huge impact on overall hoof health - any hoof!