Shedrow or Bank barn - WWYD? really long-sorry

[mybeau1999]

Another barn question, my dad is back on his bank barn kick and I need some thoughts from people who have "been there, done that."

First off, I have nothing against bank barns, I actually board in one now, but I don't like how my dad is planning ours. It will be 24x36 and have 2 stalls, tack and wash. If I need a 3rd stall then we will move the tack room to upstairs. But, here's my major issue - The aisle won't run side to side, but front to back - so when you walk in through the main doors it's basically a dead end in front of you. Only also, only 1 stall will have a dutch door, the other 2 will have small windows near the top.

I am a big believer in having dutch doors on the outsides of the stalls, especially when it comes to emergencies, fire, etc. Also it can let a new horse or one on stall rest see what's going on. I also think having a door at both ends of the aisle is important - if a horse is in cross ties and starts freaking out then you can get out of the way whether you're at the front or back end.

In the bank, hay will be kept upstairs. And a stair well is going to take up some room somewhere downstairs (a detail my dad hasn't figured out yet.)

I personally just want to get a shed row for now. 3-12x12 stalls, with an 8x12 tack. Something that's easy so I can FINALLY get my horse home. Then in about a year get the same size barn at position it 12-14 feet from the other one and eventually put a roof over both of them, get new stall fronts, etc, and turn it into a center aisle. My dad and I both agreed on this barn a few weeks ago, until the Bank Barn Bug bit him again:(
Hay will be stored in 2 of these stalls, but on the ends on the barn, at the opposite end from the horses, and all the horse stalls will have a dutch door on the back.

So what would you guys do? The bank barn is also going to be closer to the house = more smell/flies on the deck, even though my barn will be CLEAN. The shed row will be a bit further on the flat area in our yard but still not that far away at all. I'm just concerned about safety/ventilation/emergencies. My dad is concerned about storage (upstairs of bank barn), expanding our driveway (to the front of bank barn), and adding value to the property:no:

Sorry it was so long, and thanks for any advice. I'm fighting a losing battle with him:mad:

ETA- should I just let my dad build a bank barn? or keep trying to convince him that the shedrow would be better for safety and ventilation?

[MaresNest]

You need to have a door to the outside on each stall. That's a safety issue, and you shouldn't compromise on it, particularly when you're building from scratch. No point in going to the effort of building something that is lacking in such a rudimentary safety consideration. It would be different if the structure was already there.

[BasqueMom]

Sorry, I wouldn't think a bank barn would add the value that the shedrow soon to be
barn with center aisle would have. Dutch doors to the outside or the ability to put them
in would be on my list when property shopping. And a place to store hay further
away from the horses. An upstairs tack room doesn't thrill me either.

I've got a shedrow but would prefer a center aisle barn. Winning lottery ticket, please...
The right bank barn might be a mind changer but from your description of what Dad is
plotting doesn't sound like a winner to me. JMHO

[ShotenStar]

While door placement is a (somewhat) matter of personal preference, the bigger issue with a bank barn is future expandability. Shed rows can be lengthened, or as you indicated, expanded into center aisle barns with some advance thought. Bank barns tend to stay exactly as they were first built because of all the issues of grading and putting in retaining walls.

There is one bank barn in my neighborhood that was expanded .... poorly. The result was a collapsed back wall that flooded the barn, made the entire structure unsafe, and cost thousands of dollars to repair. And it's ugly.

*star* - who sees it's ugly back side from her arena every day .....

[EASY RIDER STABLE]

Well I own a Bank Barn and LUV IT ! ! It is an older barn (and house) but the pluses for me are it is really cool in the Summer time and toasty warm in the Winter. Being close to where you are makes this an asset. However when building from scratch a Bank Barn doesn't make sense ...way too expensive. Also in this area you can get an absolute exuisite barn from www.horizonstructures.com pre-built and put up in one day for pretty cheap. They have a 4 Stall, TackRoom, FeedRoom, WashStall and Hayloft for under $30K with a beautiful aisle and Dutch doors from each stall to the outside. If I were to put up another barn I sadly wouldn't go thru the time and effort with a Bank Barn and just have one of those stables hauled in....Good Luck with PaPa I think it might be his choice since he is paying for it !:D

[Hilary]

I worked at 2 places with a bank barn (old, converted, so they may not have had choices) and it had a lot of good features. Warm in winter, cool in summer.

But it only had one opening for horses at one end, and the stalls all only opened to the aisle, not outside. You could, in one of the barns, carefully lead a calm horse through the people door at the far end. The other only had the one entrance. Come to think of it the upstairs of that barn really only had one horse entrance too.

Many barns only have one door per stall, so I would not call that a dealbreaker on any barn. Doors add a lot of expense. My barn is an old bank with the stalls upstairs. If the east side had outside doors, they'd be jumping down about 15 feet.

I guess since your dad owns the property and is footing the bill he does have final say. If he's anything like most men I know, he's decided a bank barn would be really cool and he wants one. Has nothing to do with how useful you will find it vs. a shedrow - he's getting to build a barn and you get your horses home.

If you conceed to the bank barn, you should get the dutch doors in the stalls though.

[mybeau1999]

Also in this area you can get an absolute exuisite barn from www.horizonstructures.com pre-built and put up in one day for pretty cheap. They have a 4 Stall, TackRoom, FeedRoom, WashStall and Hayloft for under $30K with a beautiful aisle and Dutch doors from each stall to the outside. If I were to put up another barn I sadly wouldn't go thru the time and effort with a Bank Barn and just have one of those stables hauled in....Good Luck with PaPa I think it might be his choice since he is paying for it !:D

This is the first type of barn we looked at, then we ordered one of their smaller 3 stall, tack room, hay loft barns - but we ran into problems with the county/permits and had to cancel the order (before they started building, thankfully!). Then we went back and forth about bank and the above horizon barn and just moving it down to the bottom of the yard, we agreed on the shedrow, and then he changed his mind. And here we are now... it's been a long process. I know he has the final say, but I'm doing everything I can and raising every concern I have to sway his opinion.

[Obi]

I have a 3 stall shed row and I love it but there are things I would have done differently. It is 12 x 38 feet in size. I had them add double dutch doors on the two stalls but I did not do so on the third (it was suppossed to be a tack/hay stall). Well, the tack/hay stall now houses a goat, a chicken coop for 3 chickens, and bagged shavings. I added on an attached shed for hay. I will the windows were bigger to allow more air ventilation. The double dutch doors are the key as it allows seperate turnout with full access to the stalls.

A point you might want to make with your dad is that because a shed row does not require a foundation, it is considered a moveable building and I pay not taxes on it as a structure. I can also sell if if I choose to move from my current home. The company can fairly easily pick it up and remove it.

I am not a big fan of hay overhead and I am planning on adding on another shed row (with a run in instead) and enough storage for hay at a later date.

The shed rows are really designed for cold weather climates so I have added vents, central fan and each stall has their own fan. It does still get hot but it is better. I so wish I had bigger windows or just the tops of the dutch doors instead of the small windows that are currently there.

[Ghazzu]

From the standpoint of respiratory health, shedrow.
No question.

[greysandbays]

I saw one bank barn I would KILL to have. There'd have been plenty of room for my horses, tack, hay, feed, and living quarters. I'd never have to go out in the weather unless I WANTED to...

But there's really only two reasons to build one:

1) You have such BASTARD winters that getting partly below ground vastly increases the comfort level. However, most places with winters this bad are either too flat or too close to bedrock for a bank barn to be practical (or even possible).

2) You have a hill you don't want to remove and you don't have any other good place for a barn.

Well I guess there's a third reason -- You just WANT one and money is no object.

[mybeau1999]

I saw one bank barn I would KILL to have. There'd have been plenty of room for my horses, tack, hay, feed, and living quarters. I'd never have to go out in the weather unless I WANTED to...

But there's really only two reasons to build one:

1) You have such BASTARD winters that getting partly below ground vastly increases the comfort level. However, most places with winters this bad are either too flat or too close to bedrock for a bank barn to be practical (or even possible).

2) You have a hill you don't want to remove and you don't have any other good place for a barn.

Well I guess there's a third reason -- You just WANT one and money is no object.


Maryland winters aren't all that bad, we have a hill - but, we also have a nice flat area for a shedrow and lastly my dad is ALWAYS penny pinching so I don't know why he's okay with dropping 50k on a bank:confused:

[EASY RIDER STABLE]

You shouldn't require any permits for one of the Horizon Structure stables as there is "no" concrete being poured and therefore is considered a "portable" structure, especially since they are just about dropped of the truck and can be moved all over the place. They have a gazillion different models to chose from that can be dropped off and used in minutes !

[AKB]

I would love to have a bank barn but when we priced it at our first house, it was too expensive. When we boarded at a bank barn, it was cool in the summer, warm in the winter, and resistant to severe storms. It did have Dutch doors for some of the stalls, and a wide aisle that dead ended but left lots of room for everything.

We built a shed row barn that I hated. It was hot in the summer and cold in the winter. If we left it open, horses would trap each other in the stalls and fight. I couldn't wait to move. Our current house has a center aisle barn with dutch doors for every stall. I am happy with it, but still would love a bank barn.

Could you put a run in shed out in the field so you can bring the horses home now? Then, your father can take his time to build a really nice bank barn that you will love.

[chicamuxen1]

I also agree with you about the shedrow barns being better for the horses, safer for the horses and much more sensible financially. I have see a barn that was two shedrows facing each other with a seperate roof spanning the "aisle" added later. It was economically sensible and worked nicely. the company that you sent the link to does a nice modular monitor barn which is also a great design. I like monitor barns.

As far as bank barns go, I've seen a lot of drainage issues because the lower level is downhill and the rain water runoff from the hill and roof naturally wants to flow downwards to the lower level where your door and barnyard is. It presents lot's of work to be done to prevent mud and muck. Most of the old bank barns have a big concrete pad just outside the doors to the lower level because of the drainage issue. That's even more money.

I suggest that this time of year is a good time to take your dad on a barn tour. Find some bank barns that have a nice hole in front of them (yes I know that many don't) and take him to visit. Let him see the dark interiors, then take him to a well done shedrow barn. Do you homework, then do the tour. It usually works well to use the weaknesses of most men. They will listen better to another man then they will to you. So find the right person to talk to your dad then let him feel that it's his idea to build a shedrow.

chicamuxen

[camohn]

As far as bank barns go, I've seen a lot of drainage issues because the lower level is downhill and the rain water runoff from the hill and roof naturally wants to flow downwards to the lower level where your door and barnyard is.

ha ha.I can vouch for this one!

In general though.....if you do the bank barn thing make sure there is something that opens on both ends for ventilation in the summer.....door that ends in a dead end wall like described in the first post sounds like there will be ventilation issues. The good thing about bank barns is that in really cold weather closing up the doors the horses body heat does a good job of keeping the barn warm! In nasty winter weather I am happy to have an idoor aisle to be cleaning stalls since there are 13 of them! How our bank barn was expanded: Normal footprint of orginal barn is still there. An addition was put on so the rectangle became an L....not a longer rectangle...original ventilation through the 2 ends still exists.
For most normal weather the shedrow will work just fine/they can see each other with the heads sticking out. Upside of a shed row: cheaper to build, easier to expand.

[GollyGee]

Worked in every configuration of barn and both have pluses both have minus.
Ventilation, ceiling height, to and from egress, load bearing strength, drainage, expansion limitations.
You can get the benefit of both actually. A lovely center bank structure w/ hay storage above and tack and grooming area, w/ your prefab stalls snugged up to the barn on both sides. If you have the banks properly done and drainage installed its win win. You have dutch doors out and an overhang to walk under into small bank barn w/ wash stall / feed and tack room.Windows high up in back of prefab gives light and venitation but bank shelters from wind and cools in summer.Bank gives you a snug place to groom in winter and a cool place in summer. Horse have ventilation and dutch doors. Expansion any way you want. Youcan ahve a central front big door to bank w/ smaller ones on side to pass thru. Put the loft stairs inside your feed room run along a solid wall so you support and something to lean on in the dark,and make a blanket storage closet under the stairs
Its all in the careful execution of the design and forethought before you build.
You are close enough to Amish country to get alot of work from them, especially in this down turned ecconomy. They are struggling like the rest of us w/ a huge slow down in the carpentry trade.
If you and your Dad look @ your lay-out you both can have what you want.
There are book in the stores w/ fabulous photos of old bank barn..:)

[gallupgirl]

Dad's property + Dad's $$$ Paying for said structure = Dad's Choice

Be thankful you have a horse and a dad that is willing to let you have your horse at home in your backyard.

Someday when you're making the gold and have it on your own property you can make those choices too.

[mybeau1999]

It usually works well to use the weaknesses of most men. They will listen better to another man then they will to you. So find the right person to talk to your dad then let him feel that it's his idea to build a shedrow.

chicamuxen

Ha, tell me about it... Everybody he has talked to says go with the bank barn - these people include his financial/investor guy, the contractor, random people who stop by the house like the inspectors from when we did some grading over the summer, his high school buddies, his brother in law, etc. None of which own horses!!!

The people who are telling him to go with the shedrow include me, obviously, my trainer/BO, EVERYBODY from the barn where I board, my horsie cousin and my mom (she doesn't want to spend all the money).

Go figure.... obviously he thinks the people with horses have no idea what they're talking about!!

[mybeau1999]

Dad's property + Dad's $$$ Paying for said structure = Dad's Choice

I know, I know... I'm just trying to make him see the light;)

But really, with our property a bank barn isn't even the best thing... our hill isn't steep enough to put the entire bottom floor in it so it's going like 1/2-3/4 of the way in (if that makes sense). So we'll need to ramp up the dirt in front of the upstairs to be able to get in the door... It really doesn't make sense and will probably be more work than it's worth.

[Bluey]

Both are fine barns, but bank barns need good engineering and cost considerably more.

Self standing barns come in all kinds and shedrows that later may become center aisle barns are a very good way to get started with minimal expense, easy to change and if necessary can be moved somewhere else.

I would build an all purpose barn that can be an asset to the property, that someone later can use as a shop or storage or whatever they want and you can now put in portable stalls, that can be changed around as needed or even resold.
Look around at how many properties with horse barns sit idle today, the new owners only using the house.

[gabz]

Without knowing what's north/ south... where the pasture is in relation to where the bank barn would be, yada yada... it's hard to help you come up with arguments.

I have an old bank barn. The lower floor opens to the east - which is the best as the winds out of the west are the wicked ones. It has windows high up in the "basement" level and it has 2 doors on the east wall and one on the north wall of the bottom level. Then, there are HUGE doors on the west and east walls upstairs.

I don't believe all stalls require 2 doorways... It's nice, but there are probably millions of horses stalled in barns with only 1 door to an aisleway.

having the hay storage on the upper level, where you can drive a truck to it, has fantastic benefits. No hay elevator needed, yet it's easy to throw hay down to the horses. I know that many folks don't like to store hay above horse's heads... but it works well in many situations.

Only 1 roof for twice the amount of floor space.

Proper drainage can be an issue - but if you place a shedrow at the bottom of the hill, you'll have the same or worse situation.

If the barn can be extended out, from the slope, there's no reason why it can't have stalls on either side of a main aisle that goes out to a large doorway, and the stalls could have access from outside and the aisle. Or, the front of the barn (the lower level side) could be set up with a porch like roof - the upper level overhanging the downstairs. Could be a beautiful barn...

With a good stone foundation, these barns really are much nicer than sheet steel or wood. Much cooler in the summer and warmer in the winter.

[mybeau1999]

Without knowing what's north/ south... where the pasture is in relation to where the bank barn would be, yada yada... it's hard to help you come up with arguments.


The opening on the bottom would face west... top, east. The side where we might be able to put dutch doors in would be south.

[Blue Bandit]

I LOVE our 100+ yr old bank barn...the aisleway opens at both ends, so there is a wonderful cross breeze in the summer. Our indoor is attached to the old bank barn and we have a courtyard area at one end of the aisleway. The barn is rarely below 40 degrees in the winter. If I could change something I would love to have a wider aisle, but it still works and I love the atmosphere and charm of an old barn...
http://www.kodakgallery.com/ViewSlideshow.action?&collidparam=39864519108.452414612308.1229654294607

[gabz]

The opening on the bottom would face west... top, east. The side where we might be able to put dutch doors in would be south.

Typically, where I live, the open side of run-ins is E or SE; but you have to consider the prevailing winds for your particular property. You don't want openings to face prevailing winds - and that factor is primary when locating and building a barn.

I don't know how much snow you get in that area either... but dutch doors - since they open out, could be difficult with snow buildup unless you have a large overhang/ porch roof type shedrow (some do, some don't). I have a "hinged" door that I cannot use right now because we had a huge snow fall and all that snow fell off the roof in front of that door and then iced over with rain. Sliding doors are much easier to maintain when there is snow.

Again, the land layout, which side can have doors, drainage etc., is what should be considered for barn type and location. Then build the barn that fits the location. It might be interesting to consider a bank barn with a "wing" that extends out from the lower level. (A "T" or an "L") The wing could be your shedrow w/stalls. The lower floor of the bank barn for wash rack, feed, tack, grooming; the upper floor for hay storage and parking tractor/riding mower, etc.

With the "wing" extending west, you can have an aisle down the center and a door at the very end, with stalls on either side with plenty of ventilation with barred windows and sliding doors on the outside walls. Or, a single aisle with all the stalls on one side.

Good Luck. THere are pros and cons to any configuration.

[2Mares]

You can add on to a bank barn, says the fiance. However, I'm engaged to a structural engineer so it's a little easier for him to do. I think it is a guy thing. Both our parents had/have bank barns (which he has dismantled one and will be dismantling the other this summer to build our house from them, both 100+ year old barns). That being said, he's building me a shedrow this spring so I can get my horses home because it is cheaper and faster to build. Down the road, he wants a bank barn.

Just be happy, you are getting a barn. :D

[siegi b.]

I have two barns - one is a shed row with overhang, the other a berm structure, meaning part of it is built into a hill. Berm structures are quite heating and cooling efficient but probably not to the extent of a true bank barn. I will see if I can find pictures that show both barns.....

If you want your dad to see a well-working shed row or an even better berm barn you're welcome to stop by and see them for yourselves. I'm in Northern Virginia - not that far from you.

Here is the side view of the berm barn
http://s230.photobucket.com/albums/ee243/sbelz/?action=view&current=bermbarn2.jpg

Here it is from the back
http://s230.photobucket.com/albums/ee243/sbelz/?action=view&current=bermbarn.jpg

And here is my shed row barn
http://s230.photobucket.com/albums/ee243/sbelz/?action=view&current=shedrowbarn.jpg