Equicast Questions

[Secretariat2]

I have a horse (TB stallion) who managed to gouge a nasty hole in his sole and if that wasn't bad enough, he somehow managed to get a small pebble wedged up inside which put pressure on his coffin bone and naturally, he was a very sore and sorry boy. Thankfully my wonderful vet suggested sending him to Dr. Spurlock and he now has had surgery and is in a hoof cast and on stall rest and antibiotics and recovering nicely.

The recommended protocol is for him to keep the cast on for 4-6 weeks and then to get a shoe with a pour in pad. Trouble is I'd prefer to keep him barefoot if possible. He tends to yank nailed on shoes off rapidly, taking lots of hoof wall with them.

I had a look at the Equicast website and it appears they have something called a Thinline Pad which might work in this situation. They say to apply the Equicast, then the pad with another Equicast on top to keep it on.

I'll check with my vet, but I was thinking this might work better for him than a shoe. It is muddy in northern VA right now though and I was also wondering how it would hold up for turnout in muddy conditions (although the mud would likely suck a shoe off pretty quickly too :confused: ).

Finally, there are instructions available on a dvd on the site. How much expertise is needed to apply the Equicast? Is it something I could do myself after watching the dvd or is more training required. I have been doing my own trimming for about 6 months, so I don't have a lot of experience (to put it mildly), however I have been able to keep my 8 horses sound and comfortable by myself so far :)

Please, not another barefoot v. shoes brangle. Just want to do what is best for my boy.

[Daydream Believer]

I'll be surprised if the cast stays on that long. Usually they come off in two to three weeks. You also need to really keep an eye out for thrush when the cast comes off. Many trimmers will take the cast off at two to three weeks and not wait for it to fall off on it's own...and that is a consideration if you are trying to keep the hoof clean.

I wanted to add that I would not presume to advise you to do other than your vet recommends. You should call him and ask him his opinion and explain your concerns about the shoes staying on. Having said that....I cannot see why you could not use Equipack CS under a full cast (not just a rim cast that circles the hoof wall) for this problem. I'd assume he has a full cast on now from the sound of it.

Pete Ramey has a new DVD out called "Tools of the Trade" and he covers casting techniques in that DVD as well as glue on boots (another possibility for your horse). It's not that expensive and I can see no reason why a capable horse owner used to working on hooves could not successfully use an Equicast. It's not complicated. You will need to buy the Adhere (glue) and the Equipack CS. They are available easily online and many horse supply catalogs carry those products.

His site where you can order:

http://www.hoofrehab.com/toolsofthetrade.htm

You can also cast a pad under Equicast but it will shorten the life of the cast and wear out faster. Not sure if you'd really need the pad though in your case.

[EqTrainer]

I have been doing a lot of casting... fun stuff :)

I can get 6 weeks out of a cast w/Equipack CS underneath it. I did do a horse once w/a thinline pad underneath but conditions were not ideal and she lost it pretty quickly. I would try it again tho' :)

If you decide to do it yourself.. get a box of them and play around w/them. I use a lot more Adhere than recommended and I use a totally different wrapping method than shown on the videos. So IMO, you can feel free to experiment to make it work for your situation.

[irishcas]

I have had the casts stay on for 6 weeks as well. I forgot I had put them on one of my horses ;) sorta.

Anyhoooo, I would reset the cast in 3 weeks, just to look at that sole. I would then recast, filling the bottom of the foot with Dental Impression Material.

You can do it yourself, just understand your first few applications will be crappy looking.

I also would NEVER keep a horse on stall rest for a small hole in the sole, but hey thats me and I'm no fan of vet advice when it comes to feet. (not open for debate)

If you order the casts from Dave, he will sell you the glue, the IM and the casts. I would probably start with the 4 x 4 and after a reset or two move to the 3 x 4. Feel free to email me and I'll help you as much as I can. Dave is helpful as well.

Good Luck.... Do you have xrays or photos?

[nextyear]

Finally, there are instructions available on a dvd on the site. How much expertise is needed to apply the Equicast? Is it something I could do myself after watching the dvd or is more training required. I have been doing my own trimming for about 6 months, so I don't have a lot of experience (to put it mildly), however I have been able to keep my 8 horses sound and comfortable by myself so far :)

Please, not another barefoot v. shoes brangle. Just want to do what is best for my boy.[/QUOTE]

I have been using the equicast over direct glu-on's on a event horse, only put it on to go X/C as I need the wall of his feet to continue to dry out and toughen but have been putting it on myself, and I am no farrier, I have put on the sound horse glu-on and the direct glu on though. Best way I found was to spray water on the eqi-cast as you are wrapping foot, it was easy though and did not look bad even my first time. Good luck I found it to be a good product, can not imagine it would stay on for 6 weeks though.

[Daydream Believer]

I really do suggest you buy Pete Ramey's latest DVD on "Tools of the Trade." He covers a variety of Equicast styles with pads, impession material as well as reinforcing them to last longer...and more. He also shows the new Easycare glue on boot. It is well worth the $40 purchase price. I wish I had had that DVD before I started using Equicast as it would have shortened my learning curve dramatically and my head is spinning with new ideas on ways to help horses in my care. I just got it and watched it in the last day and I was impressed.

I don't think it takes that much "expertise" to apply an Equicast more than it takes practice. It does take knowing when it is a good idea to use one and when it's not and the different variations...and that is knowledge that takes time, learning and experimentation.

[FlashGordon]

I'm still shocked I have not seen/heard about casting up here.

I think everyone is still getting over the Glue-on Phenomenon. Ha ha. We are sooo backwards....

[Daydream Believer]

I'm still shocked I have not seen/heard about casting up here.



I think I'm one of only two hoof care providers in my area using them so far according to several vets I've spoken to. I absolutely love the stuff. :)

[irishcas]

I'm still shocked I have not seen/heard about casting up here.

I think everyone is still getting over the Glue-on Phenomenon. Ha ha. We are sooo backwards....

Where in NY are you? I'm in Orange County and put them on all the time. I also work with some vets on Long Island and use them there as well :)

Regards,

[FlashGordon]

I'm over in Western NY. We always say we are about 2 years behind most major trends-- whether it be fashion, horses, whatever! :lol:

[Secretariat2]

Thanks for all the replies. I forgot to ask for a copy of the xrays but I mean to get them. Good thing to have in any case. He is in a full cast right now and on stall rest but it is more because my field is so wet and muddy right now. It seems to have been raining forever lately :( We made him a small paddock attached to his stall but because of the lousy weather I haven't been able to let him out in it much as he churns it all up. I've lost count of all the loads of bluestone dust and gravel we have put down, but if you get constant rain and then add in a large horse stomping around a small area, it means either slop or frozen craters. I'd much rather let him out and I know he wants out too! Unfortunately it is not just a small hole because the pebble that got in there messed up a fairly large part of his sole and that had to be removed. He was at the clinic for 2 days and had surgery not just an abscess dug out. Don't know what the heck he did to himself :( In any case, once the surgical cast comes off (not an equicast, this thing is very solid and will easily last 6 weeks - it has to be cut off with a dremel tool), we need someway to protect the sole.

The glue on boot suggestion sound good too and maybe an easier way for me to go, so I'll look into that. I'd much rather handle the trimming etc., myself.

[Meshach]

FlashGordon - I know Dave has been up to Cornell a lot for talks, maybe you could contact them. Although, I forget, is Ithica Western NY? :)

[ChocoMare]

My farrier/trimmer has been casting for four years and she just orders the "human" version from an E-bay medical supply store (http://stores.ebay.com/MED-VET-SUPER-STORE_W0QQssPageNameZstrkQ3amefsxQ3asstQQtZkm. She's had good success with it and finds the human version tends to stay on longer. Perhaps that might work for the OP's horse?

Irishcas, DDB, etc...: How 'bout you guys? Have you tried both EquiCast AND human casting tape? Seen a big diff? Which did you like better?

[Daydream Believer]

No, I've not tried the human casting tape. I would be surprised if it lasts as long as the Equicasts on a horse application but I sure do not know.

[Auventera Two]

I'll be surprised if the cast stays on that long. Usually they come off in two to three weeks. .

It depends on environment, and shape of the hoof capsule. I've had casts last 5 weeks, and they were still tight as could be, and I had to really work to get them off.

The Thinline pads are made by the company Thinline. That makes the saddle pads and girths and stuff. They aren't proprietary to Dave at Equicast. I've not yet casted with pads underneath them, but I know Irishcas from this forum has. You could PM her and ask her to check out this thread.

I like the hoof casts a lot, and for your purpose, I think they'd be wonderful!

[Daydream Believer]

It depends on environment, and shape of the hoof capsule. I've had casts last 5 weeks, and they were still tight as could be, and I had to really work to get them off.



It is interesting that mine have not stayed on as long. Now two full casts I removed at 2.5 weeks on my foundered mare Lodi and it looked like new so it might have stayed on that long. One horse I had kept them on over three weeks but he wore thru at the toes and I took them off also. I do think our wet soft and sandy environment is hard on hooves anyway and probably isn't helping the casts.

I thought the dental impression material looks like a wonderful padding arrangement for under the casts particularly for a horse with weak heels and/or needs an area like this horse kept uncovered. I have not used it but I will be trying it soon.

[ThirdCharm]

I would be surprised if the human version isn't the exact same item as the horse version, packaged differently and tripled in price.... par for the course...

Anyway, I have had great luck with casts, I have only had one come off before five weeks (which is the schedule our clients usually stay on) and that was the only one I have put on with a regular pad underneath (not my idea, I thought it would cause the cast to slip and I was right). I haven't used Adhere on any of mine, though I would for a straight-walled horse, and I have to cut them apart with nippers to get them off. One horse I cast doesn't grow much foot so hers has been on seven weeks right now, with EquiPak under it. One horse who has a tendency toward rotten spots we use EquiPak CS under the cast and it does great. The footing around here is mostly mud right now, so not too hard on the casts in terms of abrasion. My one mare who is casted and works daily on screenings has the cast UNDER the shoe (foot was really unlevel and missing most of outside wall) so dunno how it would do if it was just cast vs. screenings...

Jennifer

[Daydream Believer]

Jennifer,

That is interesting. Have you tried gluing the pad onto the hoof before casting? That is what Pete Ramey is doing and it seems to be stable. I think he's using the Thinlines and regular Easycare pads. Then he trims the pad out from under the hoof wall before casting also. He did state that the casts do not last as long with the pads under them due to the extra movement of the cast as one without but he won't leave them on longer than two weeks either.

Kim, how long does an Equicast hold up with the Dental Impression material underneath?

[Auventera Two]

Where do you guys buy dental impression material?

[ChocoMare]

E-Bay has it...of course! :D

http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=m38&_nkw=dental+impression+material&_sacat=See-All-Categories

[Daydream Believer]

Where do you guys buy dental impression material?

Dave at Equicast has it also. :)

[FlashGordon]

FlashGordon - I know Dave has been up to Cornell a lot for talks, maybe you could contact them. Although, I forget, is Ithica Western NY? :)

Hey thanks for the info! I know some folks who do haul horses there quite often for farrier work but have heard no mention of casting. Lots of hardcore corrective shoeing going on over there which is fine and great.... but...

It is kind of ironic because when Windsor first came in October, I was packing his feet then wrapping them with vet wrap, then going over the sole and toe with duct tape. Every single day. If only I'd looked into casting sooner... for some reason I thought it was a much more involved process.

I think he'd definitely still benefit from it though...

[ThirdCharm]

Jennifer,

That is interesting. Have you tried gluing the pad onto the hoof before casting? That is what Pete Ramey is doing and it seems to be stable. I think he's using the Thinlines and regular Easycare pads. Then he trims the pad out from under the hoof wall before casting also. He did state that the casts do not last as long with the pads under them due to the extra movement of the cast as one without but he won't leave them on longer than two weeks either.

Kim, how long does an Equicast hold up with the Dental Impression material underneath?


No, haven't tried that... the horse in question I just recasted, as I didn't think it needed a pad in the first place, and it was absolutely fine. With the pad it lasted a bit over two weeks.

Jennifer

[irishcas]

Dave at Equicast has it also. :)

Dave sells it or you can get it from Gene O's company, I believe he sells it by the bucket.

DDB: 4 weeks with DIM, if I want it too.

Regards

[irishcas]

No, haven't tried that... the horse in question I just recasted, as I didn't think it needed a pad in the first place, and it was absolutely fine. With the pad it lasted a bit over two weeks.

Jennifer

Hey Jennifer:

Totally different topic, but how is that horse doing that you talked about a month or so ago? Not trying to start a war, just wondering if he is doing any better?

Regards,