giant hay belly - genetics or something else?

[marta]

friend's arab gelding, 19 years old, developed a gigantic hay belly in the last few months. he looks like a cartoon. skinny legs, no fat deposits anywhere on his body, just this huge belly. she has him on 2 cups of TC Lite per day, some vitamin/mineral supplement and timothy hay.

is it just genetics that causes some horses to have these huge hay bellies or is this indicative of something else?

[HandsomeBayFarm]

It totally meant something else in one of my guys.

Aquired a skinny, beaten rescue - he was 2 yrs old. Did the powerpack thing. And got him to a good weight.

2 years went by and did the same ol' routine; de-worm, teeth, etc etc just couldnt loose that swollen hay belly look. U guard helped a pinch.

The kicker? I ran thru my whole barn with DD of Equimax (treat for NTWs) and actually follwed up with 2 singel doses of Ivermec on him. And pulled him off of TC Complete as he was eating 1 cup a day (1x a day)and looked horrible. Switched to BP, oats and RB and now I have a fit and trim,shiny, well muscelled beast.

[marta]

this horse came to the barn in the beginning of the summer looking 'normal.' the hay bellly appeared in the last couple of months. his owner says he always gets that in the winter.

[CoolMeadows]

Other than worms, it can come from a low protein diet, a poor protein source or a low quality/low protein forage. Is he on grass through the summer?

[HandsomeBayFarm]

I think it was a combination of things. Like CoolMeadows said could be the food source. I did everything at once so hard to say which it was. I do know that it has not come back since doing all that.

I believe that the switch to the new barn would have triggered the worms.

But again, maybe just look at his diet from before to now....

[BornToRide]

If it is not worms consider that he may be developing Cushings. Arabs tend to be prone to that and may not show all the typical symptoms. One was recently diagnosed who showed none of the usual symptoms yet his levels were the highest the vet had ever seen. Muscle loss and a sagging belly are one of the signs.

Testing ACTH levels now is not a good idea, as it could give you a false positive, but you could try and feed a Cushings diet and add some herbs such as vitex and jiaogulan to see if it helps. Consult the Yahoo Equine Cushings group for more info.

[whbar158]

I see this in a lot of horses that are easy keepers and are not eating much grain, and are still fat and on restricted hay even. I think its from a lack of proper nutrients like one poster said enough protein, and vits/mins. I know that a vit/min supplement can help, but it still may lack in some areas and a cup of grain, even TC lite is not very much and not likely to add much nutrition. I would switch to a Ration Balancer and might not need to add any beet or oats.
I personally like the RB's that if they need more cals you just add some alfalfa pellets or oats and your are good to go, seems very simple and complete to me.
I have a friend who doesn't want to do this because it is more expensive, but i keep telling her that the horses would look better (they have the hug bellies!) If I ran a barn this is what I would do aside from the RB its not very expensive.

[HandsomeBayFarm]

I have a friend who doesn't want to do this because it is more expensive, but i keep telling her that the horses would look better (they have the hug bellies!) If I ran a barn this is what I would do aside from the RB its not very expensive.

Really? I think it has saved me TONS of money.

If my horses were to eat the recommended amounts of say TC Complete - 1. they would be huge and I'd go thru a bag a week with one horse.

Now, since switching to RB, BO and oats - they eat 3 cups (1 lb) 2x a day and look g.r.e.a.t!

[pintopiaffe]

As horses get older their ability to PROCESS food changes and gets harder. Their ability to get/use protein from the feed declines.

TC lite is in effect a ration balancer, but a low protein one. He could well need more 'nutrition' though he's getting plenty of 'calories.'

At 19 I would be trying something like TC Senior, and a really great pre & probiotic like DynaPro or Ration Plus. A little less hay. Or maybe some alfalfa in with the tim.

Definitely would do fecals too, though wouldn't rule out deworming even with clean fecals because of the stages & types that don't show. I'm not 100% on the double dose/threadworm bandwagon... but I do think there is quite a bit of merit to the discussion and use. ;)

[marta]

our hay is very low in protein.
in fact, so low, that i supplement my mare's diet with other protein sources.
how would insufficient protein intake result in a hay belly? and yes, he is on grass in the summer and no hay belly. so something definitely changes between summer and winter months.

[whbar158]

HandsomeBayFarm- the reason she it wouldnt be cheaper is because she is feeding very little complete to them-think like less than a pound a day, and TC complete is cheaper by the pound than an RB, but personally I think she may save on some of the harder keepers or ones that require 8 pounds of the complete like my horse who I think would be just as plump on an RB and some oats and oats are cheaper by the pound than TC complete. So who knows.

[TheOtherHorse]

I second the low protien comment. My mare gets a hay belly (but skinny elsewhere) when she's not getting enough protien. Another thing that helps her is probiotics.

[goeslikestink]

Other than worms, it can come from a low protein diet, a poor protein source or a low quality/low protein forage. Is he on grass through the summer?

seconded

[bludejavu]

My Cushings horse developed a pot belly when the Cushings became more prevalent for him. It didn't matter what he was fed, the belly never went away. I now have an IR horse that has a pot belly. If he is kept in a rigorous exercise program, he tones up a bit, but it always comes back in the winter. A pot belly/hay belly can definitely come from diet but in my experience, it also can come from metabolic issues.

[marta]

someone please explain.
i need to be able to explain to the owner.

[Huntertwo]

I know hay bellies were a common thought in the past, but maybe someone can clarify.

I'm now under the impression that as long as it is good quality hay, a horse will not get a hay belly.

My POA had free choice hay at my last boarding barn and never developed one.

[Dalemma]

Well I would check worming.........then protein could be too low, or the horse could be IR.....my mare developed fat in her intestine.....she had a huge belly before I put her on a low sugar hay and thyroid medicine.

Dalemma

[imissvixen]

I have a giant hay belly and hay butt. I was convinced it was due to hormonal changes but then I weighed myself and realized that like Oprah I have gained weight. The belly on this horse like on me could be due to slowing metabolism, not enough exercise, and too much food.

[Coreene]

As several other people have mentioned, this is a classic Cushings symptom. Do consider that as well instead of her discovering a laminitic horse one day.

[BornToRide]

someone please explain.
i need to be able to explain to the owner.
It reduces muscle tone which in turn allows the belly to sag more.