interesting westfalen colt with COLOR

[staceyk]

This was posted on another thread but I think it got lost. I'd love to know the answer to this question too!

There is an interesting colorful colt at the Westfalen approval this year. He is by Furst Grandios out of a Rubenstein mare, and you can see him at
http://behindthebit.blogspot.com/2008/12/talk-about-warmbloods-of-color.html

His mother and father are bay, and I believe his dad has a blaze and maybe a white sock or two. Would this be the mother of all bellysplashes (Sabino) or possibly birdcatcher?

Can someone explain the genetics?

[aurum]

I had already commented to that colt, he was on the video when they selected him

http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=177711&highlight=Westfalen

[staceyk]

I saw your posting in another thread that was mostly about Walnut Farm's new stallion (Benidetto?). But I don't think I saw a reply to the question of where that color came from. I didn't see the posting you just listed, but I don't see an answer to the color question there either. Sorry to duplicate, maybe the moderators will combine threads...

[allanglos]

Can you post his full pedigree on allbreed?

[july]

He was only at the pre-selection for the approvals, not the actual aproval days... I don't care if my horses are pink and green, as long as they jump, but I was interested in seeing this one ...

[GilbertsCreeksideAcres]

This one sure seems to like to jump!

[kookicat]

Is this the same baby that was posted ages ago?

[TrueColours]

I ADORED that colt when I saw him go through the auction and had already made plans to bid on him.

He ended up getting hurt and didnt go through the auction, I made an offer privately to buy him and lost out to a higher bidder ...

I liked him more as a baby than I do now as a stallion prospect, but in all fairness, he looked scrambled and frazzled in that video clip and I wonder if someone didnt push him so hard to go through the approvals at this early an age, if he would have fared better ...

His colour is stunning and I loved his bloodlines and his type. Maybe if he develops well as a stallion, I can look at importing some semen from him instead ...

[staceyk]

Would he be considered a sabino? Something else?

Stacey

[RiddleMeThis]

Sabino and splash imo

[showjumpers66]

He looks like he might be demonstrating white brindle like Natal along with the sabino gene. http://www.geocities.com/sbatteate/brinslides/natal.htm


Okay ... in my humble opinion (and I am not trying to ruffle feathers), I wouldn't consider this colt a great jumper. He is okay if being looked at for a dressage prospect, but not what we would look for in a jumper prospect especially a stallion jumper prospect.

[staceyk]

To me, a non-expert, he seems to be jumping "smartly" if nothing else -- I didn't watch the jumping all that closely (not really my thing) but he looked careful and had a decent bascule.

For my own education, can you say exactly what makes him so-so, or not a jumper prospect? Is it the presence of flaws or an overall absence of something one looks for?

If you feel like writing it all down, you'll have at least one attentive reader...

[showjumpers66]

How high they are asking him to jump (or lack of height) is a good indicator that he does not have great scope. Yes, he does use his front end nicely and with his very pretty face, he makes a lovely picture for a hunter. He doesn't demonstrate enough power especially from behind and keeps his back a bit flat. A really good example of the power is Diarado - http://www.worldhorsesport.com/index.php?f=market_stallions&task=details&id=672653 .

[fannie mae]

i saw him jumping at liberty at the preselection and was amazed as he truly had it all:
scope, bascule, technics - and a real overview - would have taken him as a jumper prospect in a heartbeat! what bothered me was that the committe simply looked at the pedigree and decided -since it seemed to be "dressage only" pedigree- to not let him jump higher as they do for the jumper pedigrees. they are somewhat narrowminded when it comes to making decisions based on spontaneous impression rather than what is written in their book of rules (pedigree). as such, he really didn't get the chance to prove his skill.
however, i'm pretty sure he is not lacking skill, either.
his sire was a great jumper at liberty, just that he never got a chance to do further jumping under saddle (given his pedigree, too...) and it probably would have suited him a lot better than his current not so overwhelming "career" in dressage.
the jumping comes as no surprise, actually, since with weinberg and argentinus there are some true jumper genes in front of the pedigree, florestan himslef not necessarily deleting jump and in this case even donnerhall didn't. (think of d'olympic, damon hill and dream on -all of them by donnerhall and true jumper talents)
however, what really backed my (very personal) theorie was his sire's fullbrother "fürst final" at this year's bucha. this stallion was initially marketed as a dressage stallion, too. leased by the warendorf state stud he was stationed at the very jo hinnemann himself to undergo the most exquisit dressage training inhis forst two years. he than disappeared from the scene and showed up again under a rider from the schockemöhle team - guess where?
at the 5 year old bucha jumping finals....
and boy you should have seen that stallion jump -outrageous compared to all the holsteiner majority - and outstanding scope and technics - and "grip"... big time...
just that his pretty head was bearly to be seen given the enourmous number of bids and metal in his face... again something that made me think:
there's got to be a reason both these full siblings don't seem to be doing too "selfunderstood" in the dressage arena and yes, below age 6 there is just no way to somewhat "settle them down" in dressage with tools of leveraged bids rather than proper technics of correct (dressage) riding, other than in jumping...

knowing both these stallions and their bloodlines, having seen them develop and seen them at their licensings i am pretty sure:
quality of jumping is not a coincidence in these horses.
(and it might as well be genetically manifested in some of there get.)
neither is a certain temperament that might not necessarily qualify them as predominant dressage sires, either.
gaites is not all you ride on.

[MLP]

I ADORED that colt when I saw him go through the auction and had already made plans to bid on him.

He ended up getting hurt and didnt go through the auction, I made an offer privately to buy him and lost out to a higher bidder ...

I liked him more as a baby than I do now as a stallion prospect, but in all fairness, he looked scrambled and frazzled in that video clip and I wonder if someone didnt push him so hard to go through the approvals at this early an age, if he would have fared better ...

His colour is stunning and I loved his bloodlines and his type. Maybe if he develops well as a stallion, I can look at importing some semen from him instead ...

He's gorgeous, although I am not surprised to hear he was hurt. I did look like they were handling him a bit rough and that he was doing some veering and spinning outside of the shoot. Still, he's beautiful coloring, nice movement and very nice jumping...

[MLP]

How high they are asking him to jump (or lack of height) is a good indicator that he does not have great scope. Yes, he does use his front end nicely and with his very pretty face, he makes a lovely picture for a hunter. He doesn't demonstrate enough power especially from behind and keeps his back a bit flat. A really good example of the power is Diarado - http://www.worldhorsesport.com/index.php?f=market_stallions&task=details&id=672653 .

I didn't look at any freeze frame of the youngster but I would say his form is pleasing as for his scope, I wouldn't be able to tell from that clip. Still I think he has nice form. This stallion posted is amazing! :eek::eek::eek:

[showjumpers66]

It was just my opinion. I am not knocking him ... I have just seen much better jumping stallions. I really believe that, as a group, the Holsteiners jump so much better, but that is what they are bred for. The other registries look to the Holsteiner to improve the jump. This is exactly why it is standing room only at the Holsteiner keurings during the free jumping and yet there are many empty seats at the other stallion approvals.

[staceyk]

Thanks for posting that link -- the loft that black stallion achieves is something else. And that nice calm demeanor!

[grayarabpony]

fannie mae thank you for that account -- very interesting.

[grayarabpony]

It was just my opinion. I am not knocking him ... I have just seen much better jumping stallions. I really believe that, as a group, the Holsteiners jump so much better, but that is what they are bred for. The other registries look to the Holsteiner to improve the jump. This is exactly why it is standing room only at the Holsteiner keurings during the free jumping and yet there are many empty seats at the other stallion approvals.

Sure, there are many great Holsteiner jumpers, but what registry doesn't breed for jumpers? Westfalians were ranked second in the world in 2006.