Broodmares with cushings

[Lesley Feakins]

My favourite broodmare at age 20 has been tested for cushings and after her last foal was weaned at the end of this summer, we started her on percolide. We adjusted her feeding accordingly and she is doing much much better.

She has alway been a really easy breeder, taking on usually one insemination whether it be cooled or frozen semen and produces wonderful foals.

We didn't breed her in 2008. I wanted to get her on the right feed and meds and to get a handle on dealing with this but she has come around quite nicely and am thinking of breeding her this coming spring but don't want to take her off percolide.

I will be discussing this with my Vet but wondered if breeders here have had experience with cushings broodmares and if and how percolide had effected their fertility and/or their ability to carry a foal/nurse etc. and how they manage the care of a mare like this in foal.


Anyone willing to share their experiences?

[Edgar]

Talk to Rick Toering, he posts here periodically. His mare was cushanoid and on percolide but has been bred and is no longer on the medication and looking as good as ever.

[LoveMyArabians]

The only experience I have is my mare developed what they thought was Thyroid problems back in 1998, but now think it might have been cushings... she was in foal at the time, foundered but survived, delivered a healthy, good size foal... that foal who is now 10 years old was diagnosed this year with cushings... she is so young, but the vets do think it could be because her mother developed it while pregnant. Just an FYI.

Cindy

[Daventry]

It's actually spelled Pergolide. It can be used in broodmares, but they should be taken off of it at least 6 weeks from foaling as Pergolide may interfere with the production of milk. As of yet, I don't know that any concrete studies have been done on pregnant mares and Pergolide. I know that studies done on Pergolide and pregnant rats showed no ill effects to the fetus.

[Lesley Feakins]

Daventry...thanks for the correction.
My Vet didn't want me to start this mare on pergolide until she was weaned from her 08 foal for the reason you stated, that it would interfere with her milk production.

Edgar...I did a search to find any threads with posts from Rick but couldn't find any. Do you know how to contact him?

I plan to post the same question on the yahoo group but thought breeders here might have had some insight in dealing with this.

[Daventry]

I plan to post the same question on the yahoo group but thought breeders here might have had some insight in dealing with this.

The BEST place to post this would be on the Yahoo! Cushings group. They can give you all of the information you need.

[Harold]

I've managed several broodmares with Cushings, including one who was unable to get in foal for 2 years prior to her diagnosis. Getting them on the Pergolide and getting their metabolism wnl is the most important thing. Other than withdrawing them from the pergolide slowly prior to foaling(as already stated) to prevent agalactia or reduced lactation, I've not had any problems getting well-controlled mares pregnant.

[Camelot]

Is there a hereditary element to Cushing's? If yes, why keep breeding the mare?

[Sacha]

My boss had a mare disagnosed with Cushings who was in foal when a diagnosis was made (although I had suspected it for some time). Unfortunatly she lost the foal sometime between 4 and 9 months, no idea if that weas related to the Cushings, the Pergolide or what, but first time she had ever not carried a pregnancy through to term. We lost her to colic in the end.

[ASB Stars]

Is there a hereditary element to Cushing's? If yes, why keep breeding the mare?

Inasmuch as most Mini's, many other types of ponies, and several horse breeds are predisposed to metabolic issues, you could just stop breeding whole groups!

This is an epidemic issue across the country. It isn't a question of "if" some of these horses will show issues, it is more about "when". Management is key- but sometimes, that doesn't beat out genetics.

[Thomas_1]

I can't help myself from asking but why oh why oh why would you want to get an elderly mare ill with cushings into foal???

[ASB Stars]

I am not sure that it is always that simple- the OP does have a 20 year old mare- granted. However, between the fact that the testing parameters for metabolic issues are, at best, lousy, I think that there are alot of mares who fall into all kids of ranges, who are being bred, and have metabolic issues of some kind. And, they need not be "old". The mare then runs into an issue of some kind during pregnancy, foaling, or nursing a foal.

We need better tools to deal with issues like this.

And, for the record "old" is definitely on a case by case basis.

[TouchstoneAcres]

I discussed the low thyroid/IR/Cushings horse with Dr. Oulehla, former director of Pibar stud. He said inbreeding contributes. I would either not breed or choose a stallion with a very diverse bloodline. For a 20 year old I would not consider it. The owners of her foals should be informed as well. If they choose to breed they should carefully select outcrossings.

[Lesley Feakins]

OK well the mare is elderly, no getting away from that fact. She is however, tested border line for cushings and the only symptoms were her excessive drinking and peeing both of which have now subsided since being on pergolide.

I was hoping someone would be able to advise from experience or direct me to studies etc. which I could then hopefully make an informed decision as to whether I should try to breed her again or let her retire.

We have recently started her back into light work, her weight is good and she is back to her old self again.

As far as inbreeding, this is not an issue here nor is it likely to be in the future. I'm assuming that it may be more of a issue for the rare breeds and possibly this is what Dr. Ouleha was referring to.

Harold, thank you for your post. I would be interested to hear more on your management (privately if you wished) of the mare, diet etc.

[TouchstoneAcres]

Yes more for rare breeds but still it may be carried in some lines and I would try to research a bit. It is hard to know where it comes from though if no one records it. We seldom have good information--like a data base with all horses' health issues. If you knew who in her pedigree may have had the same issue, it might be possible to avoid it. Likewise the stallion line. You'd not want to combine two who might have inherited the tendency if you could avoid it. In a rare breed it is easier to know although we learn it the hard way generally. Unfortunately the one I heard of died of IR at a young age--later we heard of others closely related. Just dig as deep as you can.

[goeslikestink]

My favourite broodmare at age 20 has been tested for cushings and after her last foal was weaned at the end of this summer, we started her on percolide. We adjusted her feeding accordingly and she is doing much much better.

She has alway been a really easy breeder, taking on usually one insemination whether it be cooled or frozen semen and produces wonderful foals.

We didn't breed her in 2008. I wanted to get her on the right feed and meds and to get a handle on dealing with this but she has come around quite nicely and am thinking of breeding her this coming spring but don't want to take her off percolide.

I will be discussing this with my Vet but wondered if breeders here have had experience with cushings broodmares and if and how percolide had effected their fertility and/or their ability to carry a foal/nurse etc. and how they manage the care of a mare like this in foal.


Anyone willing to share their experiences?
time to retire this mare shes old and has cushions be a faitful servant to her as she has to you over the years and now give her time of peice and keep her as a pasture orniment

[JGHIRETIRE]

Please keep us posted on what you find out. One of the foals I had got cushings when he was 14 - he did not respond to the pergolide at all.
His half sister at 16 has shown absolutely no signs of it.
If you find out where it comes from - let us know. Or even how you can find out. Lots of times people don't want to talk about that sort of thing and I think if you plan on breeding - you should be aware of it.