How much does word of mouth or MEETING a stallion impact decisions?

[pintopiaffe]

I have personally only bred to one stallion before this year, and now a second, that I have not met in person. I had 'spies' in the training barn of the first 'unmet' and knew owners of foals from the second and relied heavily on their impressions of the sire, added to the other rare qualities he had.

Does it matter at all to you? Do you breed frozen or AI without ever seeing the stallion in person or any of his get?

Hmm... going to try to make it a poll. You can choose more than one--I know a couple are kind of close.

I have an expectation that might be quite false. ;)

[grayarabpony]

I have only bred to one stallion, and because the resulting horse was to be for me to ride, I really wanted to see the stallion in person.

We went to see Reputed Testimony, who was an absolutely gorgeous horse, but he colicked that year. So, by word of mouth, we heard of a stallion who had been imported from Germany the year before. He fit all of my criteria: he was 45% blood and a good match physically with my Thoroughbred mare, as he's not huge; he's athletic, beautiful, very good all around horse (had jumped Grand Prix and competed in dressage through PSG), and had been ridden by kids (no doubt very talented riders, but still) in Germany. I went to see him in person and was very impressed. I really liked the fact that he was a forward and sensitive horse under saddle, as well as sensible, all things important to me as a rider.

[Kyzteke]

Because of my location, there are very few quality WB stallions in my area (actually -- none).

So, while I would prefer to see the stallion in person and see him ridden/handled, etc. that almost never happens. Generally I must rely on pedigree, videos/photos, stallion testing & performance scores and great boards like COTH. This is why I generally prefer to use stallions tested in Germany, where they give detailed scores on conformation as well as gaits, etc.

This isn't always 100% -- I bred to one VERY well-known stallion first, THEN saw him in person and was appalled at his front leg structure. Luckily he didn't seem to pass that on and the foal was fine.

And I remember when I saw Contango at DAD -- absolutely fell in love!! I had never considered him for breeding, but seeing him totally changed my mind. What a nice boy he was!

Nothing beats a face to face encounter, but it's just not always possible. It would be just as nice if the stallion owners would be totally upfront about any shortcomings their stallion has, or what he is NOT likely to produce, but I've found that just never happens...sigh.

[Dressage_Diva333]

It doesn't matter to me if I meet the stallion or not. What I want to see when breeding to a stallion is; a video clearly showing all gaits, a good conformation picture, some movement pictures, and offspring (although if the stallion is young, then it's acceptable to only see a foal or two).


I like meeting stallions, just to meet them. For example, when I chose a stallion for my TB mare, I went and looked at the Rainbow Equus Meadows stallions, and ended up choosing Escudo II (not just because he has a good temperment :P) . Temperament is not my main concern, but an added bonus. As long as the temperament is acceptable, then thats fine with me. There are a few stallions that I've heard of/seen at shows/seen offspring from that I wouldn't breed to because the temperament inhibits their performance.

All of my mares are rather even tempered, so as long as the stallion isn't notoriously psychotic, then meeting them in person doesn't influence my decision.

[Dalemma]

If the opportunity was available to me I would want to see the stallion in person.........I have only breed once and it was to a stallion I did not see in person......but I had a good video of him and I believe from what I can remember (4 years ago now) I had heard good things about him.

I would never breed to a stallion that I had never watched a good quality video on that is for sure......I have ordered at least a dozen DVD's and was dissappointed with most of them....both in the quality of the DVD and the stallions movement and way of going.

Dalemma

[MagicRoseFarm]

I would say that about 80% of those breeding to our boy have met him in person, and all said that he is way more impressive in person than his photos or videos ( which they said present him as a nice horse, but nothing mind blowing) Many of these stated they would NOT have bred had they not seen him in real life. So, from an SO point of view , it can be very important.

[not again]

First and foremost a stallion's demeanor is what draws me in or sends me packing. For that reason I have and will continue to breed with stallions I have met, up close and personal. As a horse trainer I need to have an opportunity to get a sense of the brain and emotion of the animal. Looking for a top level prospect is daunting; breeding for it is nearly impossible if I can't have a handle on the stallion's "view of the universe."

That, and hard cartilage is hard to assess without some personal input. Since I am breeding for soundness physically as well as mentally and emotionally, I want to see a stallion and watch it move "in the flesh."

Oh, and light bone, crooked legs and bad feet are really hard to evaluate on video and still photos.

[FLIPPED HER HALO]

When I started thinking about breeding my mare and had a stallion in mind, I researched that stallion for a good year before I finally went with him. I searched all over the internet for his offspring on sale sites, farm sites, here on COTH etc.

I emailed anyone I could that had one of his foals to talk to them about temperament, conformation etc. I have a huge file of pictures of his offspring etc. Everyone was super nice and glad to talk about their babies. I got a lot of positive feedback, as well as what a good match my mare would be for him. I couldn't really go by a show record as Sempatico wasn't and isn't showing. I'd love it if he were though so we could learn more about him and his abilities.

[krfarms]

I have flown great distances to "look at Stallions" and have ruled many out because of what I found. One stallion particularly everyone "raved" about. Well I saw him and he ran the fence back and forth "it was not in breeding season" and his movement was like a Saddlebred (I breed hunters)!!! And the groom was afraid to bring him out to show him!!--Yes, I made an appointment. He was nothing like his video.

The only time I have bred to a Stallion I have not seen was a few years ago. He only had a few foals on the ground, looked at them, liked them, liked the Stallion. Found out later he threw "problem feet". I think If I would have made the trip to see him I would have seen the problem for myself. Thankfully, my colt is OK but many others by the stallion are not. Needless to say, I am not going back to him.

[TwinGates]

It doesn't matter to me if I meet the stallion or not. What I want to see when breeding to a stallion is; a video clearly showing all gaits, a good conformation picture, some movement pictures, and offspring (although if the stallion is young, then it's acceptable to only see a foal or two).

Ditto. The other thing I want to see on a video is the stallion performing (or schooling) @ the level advertised by the SO.

This type of video, plus seeing (and speaking to owners of) his foals - out of a variety of mares, if possible - will determine if a stallion is on or off "my list".

[florida foxhunter]

As we started our program, I saw EVERY stallion I bred to in person. LOTS of people loved meeting Claim to Fame in person as he traveled to shows around the east.......especially appreciating how wonderful he was to his "older adult amateur rider"......me! Of course, his looks have been well documented through great wins in Conformation Classes.

Unfortunately he has hurt his foot and is not showing anymore.......and his foals are just starting u/s..........

However, we hope his 25 minute CD/Video shows enough.....as we're down here in North Florida and not on the "beat on path"....
Many would say it's too long.......but for some one who wants to see him in every situation.....it's there. You can always fast forward, haha......

I wish I could keep him traveling, but with todays economy it's tough!! Is a long video, plus show footage enough???

[Sacha]

I do try and see the stallions I use in the flesh, and their progency too if possible. I kow I have crossed some very popular stallions off my list as some of them have conformation flaws you cant see on the cleverly shot photos, that I dont want to add to my breeding program. I have also totally fallen for stallions that I might not have considered before, stallions that have an incredible X factor, that I try and decide if they would fit into my program and what mare they would suit.
I am lucky living in the UK that I can fly to Germany twice a year and try and get to studs, stallions shows and licensings. I also try and watch bits from shows and events such as the Bundeschampionate online, so I can build as clear a picture in my head as to what I like from what families.

[alliekat]

All of the stallions I have bred to I met in person. I was also able to see their offspring in person, but more importantly to me the type of mares the offspring were out of. I was even forunate enought to get to ride one of them. That was a blast. I would breed to a stallion that I have not met in person but I would have to be SURE he was the right type for my mare. Even then I would try to convince my hubby that a small vacation was in order.
I think it says a lot about a stallions disposition getting to meet him in person that you just can't get from most videos.

[Fairview Horse Center]

but more importantly to me the type of mares the offspring were out of.

This is what sold me on West Coast. On his video, they show a baby out of a QH mare. She is shuffling along with short choppy gaits, and the baby is a total wow with big time dressage gaits. I did meet him several times AFTER I bred though.

[goodmorning]

Well, I bred to the stallion I saw in person, and will continue to do so. I even got to ride 4-5 of his get, and see his grand-children that he clearly stamped; now that sealed the deal :yes: There are some things you can not see in a photo; wonky feet & legs being high on that list. I also think that there is the presence a horse has, both in the ring and in person, that draws you in. I know my mare has that attribute, so I can't downgrade in that department. There are some stallions that take lovely photos and have great videos, but when you see them in person they are lacking the 'X-factor.' I find it hard to nail-down an opinion on neck & back length/substance based on a photo, loin connection also seems easier to identify in person...this may be a problem that only I have, and I'm trying to educate myself on how to evaluate based on a photo, but just when I get it down I see another 'well-posed' photo of the same stallion and change my mind. There are so many things you can do to get a nice neck in a photo...

Since I breed for myself and am relatively new at this, I find it very important to see the stallion....however, if I can see/ride a bunch of their get, and they are a very proven sire, its not quite as imparative.

On the other hand, with the great stats and foal reports that are out there on a lot of the dressage & jumper stallions, there is probably much less need to see a stallion in the felsh. And if you have a friend or reliable source who has seen a stallion and can give you an honest opinion, than that can suffice as well.

[smokygirl]

I really have to see them in person. There are probably three exceptions I can think of that I would make, and only because I know the progeny and the owner's of the stallions well enough to really know the stallions (and I am familiar with the ancestry). To me temperment is first and foremost, and while I'm sure the majority of temperment issues is probably man-made.. there are some things I don't want passed on to foals. I want to see the stallion and how he interacts with his handlers as well as strangers. I want to see him (in what ever condition he is in... some I've looked at are in "show shape" others havne't been ridden in years because of injury or even age). I also want to see what his foals are like in person. I want to see what he produces with a cross section of mares preferably (especially if I know he's had foals by mares that have a similar pedigree to the one I'm considering him for). I do like to see a video of him under saddle if he's no longer being ridden (or not being ridden at previously attained levels) for what ever reason. I also like to see pictures. And ofcourse pedigree is important. So before looking in person, I'd look at videos, pedigree and photos.. but their would be few exceptions to not seeing the stallion in person.

[Equine Reproduction]

Well, being in a profession where we get to see many more stallions than the average breeder in their home environment and actually get to handle many (most?) of them, I rarely base my opinion on what I see in person as a defining moment and would caution others to not do so either. Or if you do, be aware of what you are looking at. For example, the stallion krfarms mentioned that paced the fence, that definitely wouldn't concern me. Stallions are funny creatures and something so simple as putting him in a different paddock, moving a horse that's adjacent to him away or moving one closer, horses leaving, horses coming - ALL of those things can upset the apple cart so to speak and cause a stallion to pace. Pacing, while frustrating, definitely isn't something is an issue. Even the most settled stallion can be compelled to pace if his environment is changed even slightly. And, many, many, many behaviors are man-made. How to tell the difference? I personally won't breed to an aggressive stallion that charges at people that walk by their stalls even though most the time that "is" a human created situation. I don't like explosively flighty stallions as that "is" usually something that is the stallion's natural tendency. By explosively flighty, I mean one that spooks at his own shadow and is not confident.

Generally speaking, if I like what I've seen on the video, chances are I'll like the horse in person. I also will only breed to approved stallions so I tend to look at inspection scores for specifics on things like legs, correctness of gaits, etc. I'll also contact breeders that have foals by a particular stallion if I want a bit more information on what he is improving or not improving. Yeah, you can edit video footage to be the most flattering, but it's difficult to hide inspection scores or offspring that are conformationally unsound.

We work and handle soooo many stallions and I'm always surprised at some of the reputations some of these boys get. Obviously, the boys that are just so dead quiet that NOTHING bothers them earn their reputations. But some of the boys that have "issues" I think are sometimes branded as difficult unfairly - really unfairly. And some of the really talented boys are going to have attitude! I think often that's what gives them that stallion presence.

As ever, JMHO.

Kathy St.Martin
Equine Reproduction Short Courses
http://www.equine-reproduction.com
Check out our Holiday Enrollment Special!

[Kyzteke]

Yeah, you can edit video footage to be the most flattering, but it's difficult to hide inspection scores or offspring that are conformationally unsound.

We work and handle soooo many stallions and I'm always surprised at some of the reputations some of these boys get. Obviously, the boys that are just so dead quiet that NOTHING bothers them earn their reputations. But some of the boys that have "issues" I think are sometimes branded as difficult unfairly - really unfairly. And some of the really talented boys are going to have attitude! I think often that's what gives them that stallion presence.

As ever, JMHO.

Kathy St.Martin
Equine Reproduction Short Courses
http://www.equine-reproduction.com
Check out our Holiday Enrollment Special!

As both a mare owner and a stallion owner (non WB) I've been on both sides of the fence and I am constantly amazed at how little REAL footage of actual conformation is on most stallion videos. In my stallion video I include close up stills of front legs/feet, hinds, cannon bone measurement etc. and will be totally upfront if I don't think a mare is a good cross with my guy.

After all, bad foals are bad advertising, IMHO.

But I realize I am in the minority and I wonder why? I can count the # of stallion videos on one hand and have fingers left over that do the same. If the stallion is tested and approved, then there is info available if you go looking for it, but getting a 6 on hind leg structure doesn't tell you what is faulty about that structure.

And gawd love 'em -- don't even get me started on Arabian stallion videos -- I got one once that never did show a full body shot of the horse -- in all the footage he was either galloping through a field of tall daisies (which conveniently hid his legs <g>) or a slo-mo close-up of his beautiful HEAD as he moved.

What's that suppose to prove -- that his head doesn't fall off when he canters? While I appreciate good camera work, etc. on a stallion video, they aren't up for Oscar consideration -- I want them to father good horses! This sort of video is just "glamor shots" for equines and I NEVER breed to these sort of stallions.

So often this is why I pay attention to the info on places like COTH -- yet heaven help you if you critique a stallion or point out some shortcomings in his foals on this board -- then it's "stallion bashing."

Makes breeding a real challenge for some of us, that's for sure.

OK, rant is over....

[Ibex]

I bought a 3yo partly because the stallion was local, has lots of local babies, and I was able to meet him (bought my mare from the SO). She's the only baby I looked at...

[EASY RIDER STABLE]

Firstly, the mares I own also have to have what I call the WOW Factor. They must either be impressive in 1 or all 3 catagories. They must have a WOW Pedigree, A WOW Show Record or finally just a WOW to look at. I look for Stallions the same way when choosing for my mares. so sometimes seeing the Stallion in person does adjust my descision. Like Magic Roses Stallion Beste Gold: Short Show record for a various of unfortunate reasons but a good one but when I saw him in person..he's jaw dropping gorgeous with a terrific pedigree that crossed well with some of mine. He didn't have much on the ground at the time but the few I seen out of mediocre mares were nice. In '07 I bred to Lingh, Killer pedigree,eye poppin beautiful, Top International show record and filled my WOW Factor in all 3 catagories. Basically it comes down to what works for you...Are you satisfied with just a photo and printed info or do YOU need to have more.........