what happens if you breed a pony mare to a warmblood??

[Ponygotsprings]

I have a fantastic little connamara/welsh/tb mare. Her sire was a 15.2 hand connemara and her dam was 13.2 welsh/tb cross. She is registered 1/2 connemara She is 14.1 and has done level 4 jumpers with much sucess. She is only 7, so I am hoping to give level 5a shot in the next year or so. She schools 2nd level dressage and has evented training level. She was approved in the ISR sportpony mare book. I am a firm believer that you should only breed great quality mares, and this little lady is awesome. I finally have a barn of my own (only 5 stalls) and would like to try my hand at breeding.

I want to breed her, but I want something with a little more size. I am not looking to sell the baby, just as a future horse for my self. I am only 5'2'' so I do not need a big horse. I prefer smaller so I can confidently break, start, and train myself. She is pretty dainty with not alot of bone. I was hoping for the baby to be between 15-15.3 hh and not necessarily a pony. Her conformation is pretty darn good and she has a very pretty head and neck. She is slightly long in the back and could use a little more strengh and shortness there. Her canter stride is huge for a little lady and is very well balanced. But, her trot has a little to much knee action and a little too much action in the hocks. A GREAT jump is a must for any stallion I breed to.

My concern is this. In order to produce a foal that will mature to the size I desire, what size stallion should I breed to? I know nothing is definate and I could end up with anything from a 14hh midget to a 16hh horse (i just want a realistic guess)?? Is it physicially dangerous to breed her to a larger stallion for purposes of carrying the foal? Does anyone have experience with this type of cross?? Any stallion suggestions?? I really like the pony stallion Voyager, if breeding to a larger stallion would be a health risk. If the stallion was approved with the ISR/Old registry, would the foal be registered as a sport pony or an old???

I love this mare and do not want to endanger her health in anyway. I just want to produce a bigger horse for me and in a couple years hand her over to my daughter to do the kids pony jumpers. I know this is long and I have alot of questions, but any information is greatly appreciated. Thank you!!

[MagicRoseFarm]

While they always say the mare controls the foal size at birth, I understand your concern, I would definitley choose a smaller stallion who tends to have small foals,

Our 14.3 + hand 5 year old stallion Hot Shot MRF might be a consideration for your mare. He is 1/2 Hanoverian. 1/2 Welsh... He compliments your mare on paper,( foal would be 1/4 Hanoverian, 1/4 connemarra, 3/8 welsh, 1/8 TB). He is a good mover, and can jump! I think you have a very good chance of getting a bit more size and still staying a pony with him. Good Luck with her!

here is a link to him at the freejumping competition held this fall at Hedgeland in VA here he jumped 1M.30, placed 4 against all horses, , at Dressage At Devon under saddle as a 4yo where he was 6th and 7th against horses, and a link to his pedigree.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcKiktKfLLw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALZp9Kyg5yQ
http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?z=l4aVhb&d=Hot+Shot+MRF&sex=&color=&dog_breed=any&birthyear=&birthland=

[Windswept Stable]

Cute user name--ponygotsprings..sounds like your pony!
At her size---I would tell folks aiming for a pony, that my boy would not be a good match... as he can throw some size when combined with big genes..she has the 1/2 TB in the damside.. He has 12% TB -3 generations back--but it tends to come out moreso with the mare having TB gentics..
I dont know if you would get the height you are aiming for,but I feel strongly that you would go over pony size... but he has incredible scope which I think you would enjoy in the jumpers. video is up on the website

[Centuree]

Wow, Windswept Stables, the front end of your pony stallion in the jumper ring is outstanding!!

Anyways, why not consider ET transfer with your mare, ponygotsprings? You could use a much bigger donor mare, and choose a stallion that matches all your criteria, that has the same proportions as your mare (except for much taller, and the shorter stronger back you requested), and you may get your ideal horse. That's probably something I would consider and a much safer bet for your precious mare. However, it will most certainly cost more. But may be worth it to get that extra size.

To answer your next question, to get a horse in the 15.2-15.3hh range, you really need to be breeding to something at least 16.2-17hh in my opinion if the pony is 14.1hh. Although, its really tough to say.

[Fairview Horse Center]

Warmbloods cross well with both Connemara and Welsh mares.

All of Nevada's offspring out of 11h - 14.1h mares have matured 15.0 to 15.3. Nevada is just barely 16h, but he does tend to add size to a smaller mare. He is a lighter bodied horse, and that is the bigger concern when breeding to a larger stallion.

Photos: Connemara/Dutch/TB cross out of a 14h mare has matured 15.2-3. He has been a super jumper, and is foxhunting - led the main field on Thanksgiving Day. The other is a Welsh/Dutch/TB cross out of a 11h mare. He is about 15h (pictured here at 3-4)

[horserider12]

I bred an 11 hand welsh mare to my 16.0 hand thoroughbred stallion and got a medium pony. She had no problem with size at birth. I've always been told that they are born to fit the mother and grow more to the father's size.

[Windswept Stable]

I bred an 11 hand welsh mare to my 16.0 hand thoroughbred stallion and got a medium pony. She had no problem with size at birth. I've always been told that they are born to fit the mother and grow more to the father's size.

Very risky. I would never ever breed with that size difference.

[Fairview Horse Center]

Quote:
Originally Posted by horserider12
I bred an 11 hand welsh mare to my 16.0 hand thoroughbred stallion and got a medium pony. She had no problem with size at birth. I've always been told that they are born to fit the mother and grow more to the father's size.

Very risky. I would never ever breed with that size difference.

One of my regular breeders (TB mares) had booked "2" for one year. She had them at the repro vet that I was using for collecting. When we arrived, the vet pointed me to one of the mares she had waiting in the tease stall, and it was the tiny 11h Welsh mare. I was very upset, but the vet kept saying it would be fine.

Luckily the mare foaled easily, but the baby was 14.3 at just 3 years old. so out grew what they hoped.

[goodpony]

Since your mare is Approved ISR Sport Pony your foal is eligible for ISR Sport Pony Division inspection/registration. I believe if she were bred to either a Purebred Welsh or Connemara Stallion the foal would also be eligible for partbred registration with those organizations. I don't know about welsh but there are several Connemara stallions who are around 15 HH, and there are presently three Connemara Stallions approved ISR Sport Pony.

[back in the saddle]

I have heard that in Germany they use warmblood mares with pony stallions. The breeder of my filly did this and got a "pre-shrunk" pony with warmblood movement. very cute..

Another person I know of, bred a welsh pony mare to Sandreo and will end up with a full size warmblood. - huge.

I'd stick to warmblood mares with pony stallions to be on the safe side.

[Ponygotsprings]

Fist and foremost thank you to everyone who has offered their advise, I really appreciate it. You all have beautiful stallions. I have considered using ET with her, however, that just gets so expensive and is not exactly always effective. I have also considered breeding her to something welsh/connemara, but I was really hoping to try her with an actual warmblood. The welsh or connemara seems to be the most logical choice. I have seen some smaller westphalian and swedish stallions under 16hh, any ideas? I wouldnt really want to breed her to anything more than 16hh.

I have definatly heard of doing this the opposite way with pony stallions/wb mares in Europe with great results, just had not heard of many examples the other way around.

IF she were approved in the sport pony book AND bred to a warmblood (not a pony stallion) that was in the ISR/Old NA book, would the baby be eligible for old papers, isr papers, or sport pony papers?? This is confusing to me because the foal could actually be a full sized horse by a full sized stallion and not even a pony, so would it have pony papers?

[Tiki]

If one of the parents is a pony, then it is only eligible for ISR Sport Pony, regardless of the final size.

Take a look at Sweet Rock Solid (http://www.longviewfarm.us/stallion.html). He is gorgeous. A great mover, a great jumper and an absolutely superb temperament. I saw him at his ISR inspection with mares all around and he was 'rock solid' and sweet. He's about 14.2h, but he's very solid and very impressive and he takes up a lot of leg, so he won't feel small to you.

This is a new pony, Champion's Devito (http://www.americansportpony.com/files/roster/pdfs/champions_devito.pdf), by FS Champion de Luxe. He's only 3, but listed as 15.1. Champion de Luxe, his sire, is awsome. He also has FS Don't Worry on the dam side. He also has a Certified Breeding License with ISR Sport Pony.

I think a German Riding Pony would be your best cross for your mare. They are just about all large, or a little over, have incredible movement and jump, take up a lot of leg, and look like small WB's with all the great, big movement in a smaller package.

[goodpony]

Pretty sure if you choose a stallion approved with the ISR/OLD NA (horse or pony stallion) your foal will still be inspected/registered ISR Sport Pony and carry the ISR Pony Brand. I think no matter who you chose, chose a stallion who complements your mare and suits your goals in type, talent and temperament.

[Ponygotsprings]

What is the prevelance of German Sport Ponies/German Riding Ponies doing level 5/6 jumpers and maybe even a little higher??? I am hoping to breed something with the scope to accomplish this. The mare should be able to do level 5. Jump in a stallion is most important to me which was why I was originally looking into wb as opposed to pony stallions. But, I am just wondering it there are any such pony stallions competing in the higher stuff??

[eyesontheground]

You should check out this farms studs. I saw two of them at an ISR/Old NA inspection and they were very nice. I introduced myself to the owner and she was super nice. I would send her an email and describe your mare and see which of her boys she would suggest.

http://www.throughconnection.com/

Also, what do you want to do with the baby? Jumpers like mom? Or more eventing? Or hunters? If the first two and not the third I would not worry about your mares knee or hock movement unless if is incorrect or extreme.

Now that we have heard all about your pony mare we are gonna need pictures and video! You can't leave us hanging!!! (Welcome by the way!!)

[goodpony]

http://www.syndicatlinaro.com/videosSL.php

If you'd like to see some Jumping Pony Stallions....check out this link. Show Jumping is hugely popular in France and many of these stallions are available by frozen.

[smokygirl]

You could try an arabian. You wouldn't get a warmblood obviously from the cross, but if you want a little more size (not anything huge), a shorter back, and more bone, that would probably do it. There are several that are in the 15-16hh range that probably would work okay with your mare. www.stanleyranch.com has two nice stallions that jump (and do dressage, and field hunting, and endurance. Multi purpose boys :)). You also have the added benefit of the rounder barrel of the arabian, which, if you don't get a huge increase in size, will at least make you have the feeling of riding a horse. And the foals would be registerable as HA in the Arabian registry ofcourse.

[Kyzteke]

I have a fantastic little connamara/welsh/tb mare. Her sire was a 15.2 hand connemara and her dam was 13.2 welsh/tb cross. She is registered 1/2 connemara She is 14.1 and has done level 4 jumpers with much sucess.

My concern is this. In order to produce a foal that will mature to the size I desire, what size stallion should I breed to? I know nothing is definate and I could end up with anything from a 14hh midget to a 16hh horse (i just want a realistic guess)?? Is it physicially dangerous to breed her to a larger stallion for purposes of carrying the foal? Does anyone have experience with this type of cross?? Any stallion suggestions?? I really like the pony stallion Voyager, if breeding to a larger stallion would be a health risk. If the stallion was approved with the ISR/Old registry, would the foal be registered as a sport pony or an old???

I love this mare and do not want to endanger her health in anyway. I just want to produce a bigger horse for me and in a couple years hand her over to my daughter to do the kids pony jumpers. I know this is long and I have alot of questions, but any information is greatly appreciated. Thank you!!

I bred my 14.2hh Arab to a 16.3hh WB who had NOTHING in his pedigree smaller than 16hh. My mare is a stout gal -- built like a cob -- and she had already had one foal. She had no problems foaling at all. The foal (now 5 yrs old) is just a whisper over 15hh (sigh). I have since learned over 4 foals for this mare that she simply does NOT produce height. She does produce width <g>.

I have another Arab mare -- about 15-15.1hh -- her foal by a 15.3hh stallion finished taller than his sire! And her second foal -- by a 16.1hh stallion -- finished over 16hh. She ALWAYS throws height.

So it's just real hard to tell what your mare will do. If you study her pedigree and search around you might be able to see a pattern, but otherwise you just have to learn through trial & error. There are certain sires known to throw height -- try to find one of those. Maybe a taller German Riding Pony stallion or WB in the 16-16.1hh range. I remember seeing somewhere a Rotspon son who was only 15.1hh -- something like that (and speaking of which, there are stallions who often produce "small" -- Rotspon is one).

I would not go with a super tall stallion because it's liable to backfire on you -- your mare does have TB back there and the height could be expressed through there.

Don't worry too much about the size difference -- the famous study "proving" the size of the mare controlled the size of the foal till birth was done using ponies & draft horses.

However, as a maiden, it probably wouldn't hurt to try to pick a stallion in the 15.2 - 16hh range. Good luck -- I'm sure it will be a great foal.

[ShannonD]

There's also Pacific :) http://www.millcreektrakehners.com/about.html

[Molly Malone]

I would be concerned that your mare is a maiden breeding to a large stallion. If she wasn't and her foaling was uncomplicated I might be tempted. The thing is, you clearly love her and you might be OK, but suppose you weren't? Could you live with yourself if you lost both the mare and the foal?

This stallion fits your jumping criteria and if you look at his progeny (click on the slide show and note Holiday), you can see that his progeny's jumping ability isn't a concern!

http://www.foxcreekfarm.com/germanridingponystallion.html

He's also fully Welsh, so you would get half Welsh and Sport Pony papers.

If you are set on a warmblood, then Ridley is 14.3 hh

http://www.fair-windsfarm.com/page6.html

[VirginiaBred]

Regardless of what you may want, the safest thing to do is to breed to something along the size of your mare for her first foal. First foals are always smaller, but you need to remember, your mare has pony genes. You've been given an excellent prospect with Ridley at 14.3.
After that, you could go larger, but I wouldn't breed her to anything larger than 15.3 for a second (or later) foal.

[goeslikestink]

I have a fantastic little connamara/welsh/tb mare. Her sire was a 15.2 hand connemara and her dam was 13.2 welsh/tb cross. She is registered 1/2 connemara She is 14.1 and has done level 4 jumpers with much sucess. She is only 7, so I am hoping to give level 5a shot in the next year or so. She schools 2nd level dressage and has evented training level. She was approved in the ISR sportpony mare book. I am a firm believer that you should only breed great quality mares, and this little lady is awesome. I finally have a barn of my own (only 5 stalls) and would like to try my hand at breeding.

I want to breed her, but I want something with a little more size. I am not looking to sell the baby, just as a future horse for my self. I am only 5'2'' so I do not need a big horse. I prefer smaller so I can confidently break, start, and train myself. She is pretty dainty with not alot of bone. I was hoping for the baby to be between 15-15.3 hh and not necessarily a pony. Her conformation is pretty darn good and she has a very pretty head and neck. She is slightly long in the back and could use a little more strengh and shortness there. Her canter stride is huge for a little lady and is very well balanced. But, her trot has a little to much knee action and a little too much action in the hocks. A GREAT jump is a must for any stallion I breed to.

My concern is this. In order to produce a foal that will mature to the size I desire, what size stallion should I breed to? I know nothing is definate and I could end up with anything from a 14hh midget to a 16hh horse (i just want a realistic guess)?? Is it physicially dangerous to breed her to a larger stallion for purposes of carrying the foal? Does anyone have experience with this type of cross?? Any stallion suggestions?? I really like the pony stallion Voyager, if breeding to a larger stallion would be a health risk. If the stallion was approved with the ISR/Old registry, would the foal be registered as a sport pony or an old???

I love this mare and do not want to endanger her health in anyway. I just want to produce a bigger horse for me and in a couple years hand her over to my daughter to do the kids pony jumpers. I know this is long and I have alot of questions, but any information is greatly appreciated. Thank you!!

dont do it, there enough horses out there, why do i say that , you might be secure now but you cant for tell the future and it might end up as another stastic on the for sale market
plus sounds like your mare is fine and dinky, so a big horse isnt going to do her justice
shes a part bred mare of nice breeds, there are tons of 15,2hhs in resuce places like canter
that need homes just as good and some are papared i would rather give another horse a home than breed one which beleive me i have done it in past, but theres always good horses out there and having a very fine horse she might not have the depth t hold a larger foal by a bigger stallion

[Olympussporthorses]

Royal Equus Farm has bred some really fantastic warmblood/pony crosses. She crossed her welsh mares with her hanoverian stallion and the resulting offspring are really nice ponies! The mare's were both quite small (12-13h) and the stallion 16.1 1/2 and the biggest pony will probably 15 hands. One is 14.3, another 14.2 and another is going to be little, maybe 14 hands.

Really nice ponies!

[RockingN]

If you're thinking of breeding to a pony, I second using Chicco B, I remember him from the Pennock Point inspection (I think it's the same guy) and when I saw pictures of him free jumping I was blown away. He is BEAUTIFUL and man can he fly! He absolutely flew over those jumps like they weren't even there. Someone else already gave you the link to his site
http://www.throughconnection.com/
But here are the pictures of him from pennock point.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/24994333@N03/2905568484/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/24994333@N03/2904723511/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/24994333@N03/2905569682/

[sniplover]

I actually took those pictures, and must say I am *very* much in love with Chicco. He seems like the Real Deal to me and was quite the gentleman. HOWEVER. He's not going to throw height if that's really what you want.

To quote his owner; "So far he has been passing along the beautiful head, powerful hindquarters, very nice gaits, self-confidence and an uncanny bonding with humans. I don't have a fix on the size issue yet, but I do know that a filly out of a 17.2H premium ISR/OldNA mare was second highest score at her inspection and looks to be growing into a 16H or so horse."

"In terms of the mares, I am interested in warmblood, thoroughbred and Arabian mares as well as the ponies. So far, I have been impressed with every foal out of warmblood mares that all 3 of my stallions have produced. They are downsizing the offspring just enough but keeping and/or improving the quality with those crosses. Chicco has his first TB cross foal due this spring so I am excited about seeing it. Chicco is licensed with ASPR and ISR, and also Weser-Ems (pending performance requirements completion this winter/early spring) but I have let his RPSI license lapse."


On the other hand, I'm *certain* that the resulting offspring would have LOTS of springs.

[sniplover]

I should add that Nancy Ferebee is the nicest person on the planet, and runs an outstanding operation. I agreed with eyesontheground that she would most certainly tell you which of her 3 fantastic stallions would suit your mare best. :)

I am sure you could safely breed her to a horse sized stallion as well. I LOVE LOVE For Play http://www.mattangofarms.com/stallions.htm and he is bred through and through to have springs. He's 16h, has a licensed hanoverian son out of his first foal crop, and Dacia is also a lovely person to work with. I think he would help in the trot department, and his back, while not distinctly short, is very well coupled.

"Prior to being imported For Play was selected and won his 30 day stallion test in Germany. He won by such a margin that he was exempted from the conclusion of the 70 day test so he could stand at the Celle State stud and participate in the jumper breeding program."

[Ponygotsprings]

Thanks to everyone for all the great responses! I now have a solid start on my stallion shopping. Everyone has such beautiful animals.

Unfortunatly, I just moved and all my pictures/videos of my girl are all packed up right now. When I find them I will be sure to post.

And for those who had concerns about my ability to care for my animals long term and their resale value and suggested I not breed I appreciete your concern. I do have alot of experience with breeding, but just always in the full sized warmblood department. This is my first venture into ponies/pony crosses. This mare has had an excellent career with me, but my daughter is now 4 and I really want her to be able to enjoy this mare.

I am excited to go through all the links that you all provided for me! Thank you!

[hluing]

I have to agree with some of the other posters that a large German Riding Pony sounds like the way to go. They can really jump...so I would have no worries in that department. Since you are quite petite, I would take advange of that fact. If you are super concerned about size, I'd look at Champion de Vito, FS Daily Hero and Chico. Perhaps Ridley as well, I have never seen him jump though. Good luck on your selection.

[Ponygotsprings]

http://www.syndicatlinaro.com/elite1FR.php

Check out this website. I looked at it (even though it is in french which i cannot read) and was shocked. I did the size conversion from m to in to hands on these ponies and they are definatly pony sized. Some of them are by larger wb stallions such as nimmedor.... If these stallions are pony sized and have larger wb sires, I am assuming that the mares would have had to have been smaller ponies. I wonder if I am missing something in the translation or if this was done?? These stallions are competing in upper level jumpers in europe, but why is this not done in the us???

[goodpony]

This is the same website I posted earlier....hard to say why show jumping is so popular in France...but it is WAY more popular with the junior riders than dressage in that country. It is also very popular in other countries but it seems we only ever hear about Dressage Ponies and Hunter Ponies these days.

[Ponygotsprings]

Yes I know, and thank you for such an intersting link. I just wish it was in English :( I just thought it was interesting that at least a couple of these pony stallions must be a result of crossing wbs with pony mares. I wish the US was bigger into pony jumpers! Too many riders feel that they need a huge horse to get over huge fences!

[sniplover]

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&u=http://www.syndicatlinaro.com/elite1FR.php&sl=fr&tl=en

It's not perfect, but you can open each stallion's page and it'll keep translating.

My 5'8" self looks ridiculous on ponies, but I agree with your sentiment!

[goodpony]

Well, that is definitely the beauty of living here in the US....there isn't anything to stop you from competing your pony in Open Shows :)

We have done the reverse of what you are hoping to do crossing our Connemara Stallion on our Warmblood mare. The younger one tapped into moms genes and is 14.3 at one year. The older one is approximately 14.1 at coming three and I expect her to finish a pony.

The pony I'm riding right now is a Purebred Connemara and he is 14.2 age three sired by a 13.2 HH stallion out of a 14.1 HH mare. I am breeding the same mare to a 15 HH stallion this season.....but I won't go much bigger as she tends to throw big babies. To be really honest, I wouldn't breed your mare to a horse stallion first time out. Instead I'd strive to breed her to something similar in size and type and then depending on how it goes, then breed her to something larger. just my two cents.

One of the very best and proven Pony Jumping stallions in the US was Grange Finn Sparrow who I believe was only around 14 HH himself. He has had progeny short listed for the Olympics in Eventing and has currently several offspring Competing at Intermediate and Prelim. He is unfortunately retired from breeding but does have a couple of sons standing at stud.

[horsetales]

If you're looking for jump, you might want to look at Irish Draughts. Blackberry Ridge has several smaller stallions that might work. This guy at 15.3 has 9 ft fences because he jumped out of everything else and he's gorgeous IMHO
http://www.blackberryridgefarm.com/stallions/hawk.html

[MagicRoseFarm]

If you choose a GRP, just please remember that most of these individuals come from all sorts of bloodlines, and many contain massive amounts of Arab and other breeds, be sure to research the pedigrees for as many generations as possible.

GRP is a segment in all Euro Regional Studbooks pertaining to ANY crossbred pony, it is not a registry itself

[grayarabpony]

There must be very good Arabian lines in France; the Anglo-Arabian is a very good sportshorse and many of the jumper ponies are Half Arabian.

http://www.stallionsatstud.co.uk/DisplayAdvertDetails.asp?AC=000000165

[Dressage+Jumping]

That pony I am afraid, has deceased.

[Tiki]

These stallions are competing in upper level jumpers in europe, but why is this not done in the us???Because most kids in this country don't jump over 2' 6", whereas in Europe they routinely jump 4' 6".

Forrest Flame (http://trevelyanfarm.com/)is also approved ISR Sport Pony. He's doing well against horses at 4th level dressage and jumped everything the horses jumped at his 30 Day Pony Stallion Test.

[hluing]

Let me clarify a couple GRP points(which I realize is OT but it really bugs me to see misinformation)...first, it is the exception rather than the rule to find a GRP with tons of arabian in its pedigree. Not that I have anything against Arabs...I actually have a warm spot in my heart for them as I started riding dressage on a couple of them. Also, a GRP is not simply any crossbred pony. There are certain accepted breeds that can be used and registry standards for inspection. That is like saying a warmblood is a large horse of any cross breeding. Simply not true. warmblood and GRP are similar non-specific terms.

[Foxdale Farm]

Here are a couple of pics of a super cute colt out of a cremello colored Connemara mare, by my stallion, Gatsby, who is homozygous black, hence the buckskin colt ( so cool!). The picture was taken when he was 8 or 9 months old, I believe. I do not recall the height of the mare, but Gatsby is 17 hh. The colt is leggy and refined, and the owners thought he would likely mature to 16 hh. Not bad for a pony cross! The mare was a great jumper and Gatsby is too, coming from some heavy duty "G" line jumpers, with Gepard quite close to him on his sire side, so Donovan should be great!

http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2378769910103489770OvYmfo

http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2507111540103489770RcqUFB

www.foxdalefarm.us

[MagicRoseFarm]

Not off track at all for this poster interested in breeding her pony to a WB.

Perhaps she would be wise to breed her pony to a Kleinpferd (another section of the regional studbooks for small horses) This section of the studbook is generally for crossbreds under 15.3 ( and "purebreds" too small for the regions horse studbook)

The GRP ( and GKP-Kleinpferd- if they have one) section of each region's studbook inspects and documents EVERY crossbred pony (small horse) born in that region that is presented to them, NOT necessarily for breeding stock, no different than most other associations. Like most other associations additional qualification, inspection, licensing etc is necessary for breeding stock.
The easiest documentation to track from Euro documented ponies are those whose whose parents are registered under a closed book BREED association ( IE Welsh, connemarra, New Forest, TB, Arabian)
Some that is not generally thought of MOSTLY for higher levels of the sport/riding disciplines( ie Hackney,Fells, Halflinger, Dartmoor), is not easily visible to those who do not have translatable access to European Sportpony data to correctly decipher the pedigree ( as it is often listed under the name of the association holding it's documentation) , hence my alert to the OP. Luckily for the Euro Pony Associations, their ponies only have to compete amongst themselves to achieve their titles, breeding accolades etc.


but then again, I guess it was wasted because we should all always be aware. Sorry if I offended anyone with my specific reference to Arab, it was intended as an example only.

[grayarabpony]

The Dartmoor is a riding as well as driving pony, and is one of the breeds used in the development of the highly competitive British Riding Pony.

[llsc]

I ride a Welsh/TB/Holstiner. He was bred to be a large pony but went over. Dam was a Welsh/TB and 13.2 hands. Sire was 13 hands. With so much horse in both parents, my guy finished at 14.3 1/2 and has a full brother who's 15 hands.

Here's a picture.
http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2709987830084673271DvKYgA

My guy is by Mapleside Mr. Magic. Who is a fantastic warmblood pony cross. He might be too small for your needs, but you can see what a nice cross he is.
http://www.chronofhorse.com/index.php?cat=41411033620461&ShowStallion_ID=1183107072669862

Jupiter would be a great cross for your mare. He's got fantastic jumping lines and stands only 15.3. If you click on his picture you can watch a video of him in the hunters.

http://www.dornataintor.com/stallion.html

[MJMisssaigon]

Ok, so how about this. I have been contemplating breeding my CW 16.1hh, 1st premium sabino mare to a pony stallion in 2010. What happens then? How does that work? She is a maiden mare and will be 14 at the time of breeding. What are my chances of getting a pony? Any recommendations as I will be looking for a hunter type baby. If any one knows how I can attach pictures on here I would love to get some feedback :)

[llsc]

I bred my 16 hand TB mare to an 11.2 hand, section A Welsh stallion named, Twyford Cadog and got a very nice filly. I was afraid of breeding one that would go over pony, so I bred to a very small stallion. You could probably go up to 12.1 and still get a pony if your mare doesn't have a bunch of 17 hand horses close up in her pedigree. It's best to breed for the pony on the first foal since they tend to be smaller.

Here's my filly at 3 mos.
http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2683618860084673271jbEgvU
And at 6 mos. Taken today, 12/15
http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2633182820084673271WSquiQ

There is nothing more fun than a pony foal! I love mine, so I say GO FOR IT!

[MJMisssaigon]

Ok, so I need to find something with a strong connection through the ls joint. Missy has a bit of a long connection through there and would like to improve upon that. I am SO excited and scared to breed her. I am actually hoping to get her out for a free broodmare lease this season and then breed her myself for the following.

I VERY much like your baby. :) I can not WAIT to see one out of my girl, will try to PM you some pictures if i can figure out how.

[Ladybug Hill]

My personal favorites from the description of your mare would be:

Jupiter
Escudo II
Empire's Power

[MagicRoseFarm]

The Dartmoor is a riding as well as driving pony, and is one of the breeds used in the development of the highly competitive British Riding Pony.


and Zebras are used in the development of Zorses. Other than to add negativity to yet another thread, Your point is??

I happen to like dartmoors, and arabs, and most breeds......my point was, know WHAT is in there when you breed to a Sportpony or Riding pony.. if it is disguised or unpublished, or called some more trendy, fancier name,there is probably a reason for it

[amdfarm]

Well, I thought I was breeding for a top of the line medium or small large pony when I put my 14.1hh ApHC stallion (w/ TB in his pedigree on both sides) to my tiny 44 1/2" pony mare in order to get a step up pony for my son. She was also a maiden and had no trouble, but her baby is no top of the line medium or small large as I'd hoped. She's a small just like her dam, a whole inch taller, so apparently she does NOT throw height. Total crapshoot. So frustrating because I'd like to try again, but I don't know how much taller I could feel safe going w/ her as she is quite small. However, knowing she can do 14.1hh, I think I could possibly go up to 15hh w/ her as long as it's not a real heavy stallion.

Good luck in your decision, so many choices! Your mares sounds nice.

[smokygirl]

As previous poster mentioned, that is another concern when breeding for such a height difference.. some mares will not produce tall foals.

I would caution against going to extremes though. While a 11hh mare may not have a problem breeding with a 14hh stallion, even as a maiden, it's still a risk. Ofcourse, their is more to consider than height... the size of the stallion is important as well, (I wouldn't breed a 12hh Welsh mare to Topsail Whiz for instance. He's only 14hh sure, but he's over 1200 lbs, he's a big bulky boy and produces tall and bulky offspring).

[amdfarm]

Good points, Smoky. I didn't have a problem w/ the ApHC stallion and pony mare because they are similar in build and type. Not heavy or very big boned at all. It worked well, but I still didn't get what I wanted. If and when I look for another stallion for her, the same criteria will apply even if an inch or two taller and check if the stallion throws height.

[grayarabpony]

and Zebras are used in the development of Zorses. Other than to add negativity to yet another thread, Your point is??

I happen to like dartmoors, and arabs, and most breeds......my point was, know WHAT is in there when you breed to a Sportpony or Riding pony.. if it is disguised or unpublished, or called some more trendy, fancier name,there is probably a reason for it

The point is that Dartmoor ARE riding ponies. To say that they are not used much for riding is incorrect. And last time I looked, Zorses aren't winning pony jumper classes in Europe, but British Riding Ponies are.

Care to link to a top producing GRP that does have Haflinger in the first 2 or 3 generations?

Seeing as to you have already pimped your own stallion in this thread, I can see why you don't want others to look at GRPs...

[MagicRoseFarm]

Care to link to a top producing GRP that does have Haflinger in the first 2 or 3 generations?

First Halflinger is not commonly used in GRP breeding , but are more prevalent in the GKP.

and your point about Dartmoor ponies IS? I did not state or imply anything negative regarding any of the mentioned breeds.. Each country has used blood easily available to them to develop new types and sizes .

BUT KNOW THAT IF a breed or type is in a pedigree ( yes, even past the third generation) , the presence can have a major influence on offspring.

Seeing as to you have already pimped your own stallion in this thread, I can see why you don't want others to look at GRPs...

And if I did not think my own stallion was possibly suitable for the OP's goals, I would have "pimped" someone else's, if I felt it was suitable. I also invite her to investigate the pedigree on Hot Shot :)

FAP - I am now done with you and your instigation for trouble. It is no wonder you are the laughing stock of so many boards.

[grayarabpony]

MRF, insane much, are you? Nasty, no question about that.
This is the only board I post on, BTW.

Just to jog your memory -- you did mention the Dartmoor as primarily a non-riding breed, when in fact a Dartmoor is an excellent child's riding pony.

And of course you did not answer the question about Halflingers in GRPs....

Good luck with your stallion -- you're right, he doesn't look that great in his videos.

[Sportpony]

I've bred both ways for many years with my sportpony breeding program ... have bred mares as small as 11.2 hands to stallions that were 16 to 16.1 hands and 16+ hand mares to stallions in the 11.2 to 12.2 range. I've never had any foaling problems with the small mares bred to big stallions, though I do not breed maiden mares to a much larger stallion for a first foal and I do not breed small, narrow mares to big boned "heavy" type stallions.

In general, at least one line of horses/ponies that I used were lines I'd bred myself so had a good idea what kind of size they would produce so I've not had too many major surprises.

One of my nicest mares I have now I bred out of my foundation Connemara mare, who was 13.3 hands and was sired by a colored son of Weltstern that I bred. I kept her for myself, but sold a half sister last summer as an eventing pony for a 12 year old girl in Georgia ... she was out of the same mare but by a half-Trakehner stallion I bred years ago.

I have done a number of Connemara/warmblood crosses and have been very pleased with them.

[ponyta123]

I didn't get through all the replies but I wanted to offer some advice, if it hasn't already been mentioned. I have a 14 hand welsh/tb mare that I am possible considering breeding in the future to a full size stallion. I have the same desires as you with the thought to size suitability for me, but the same concerns too. You should contact P. Wynn Norman at www.sportponiesunlimited.com. She bred Theodore O'connor (16 hand stallion, 13 hand mare) and has been sucessfully breeding her smaller mares to full size stallions with, apparently, great results. I contacted her when I first thought about it and she was very friendly and very open to talk. She did a lot of research herself before deciding to breed in this manner and can share what she has learned.