Palomino filly going through the Jan Keeneland Sale ... [Archive]

TrueColours

Dec. 12, 2008, 07:38 AM

Splash of Vanilla is going in the January sales.

http://auctions.bloodhorse.com/article/48403.htm

Hip Number 2176.

http://apps.keeneland.com/sales/jan09/pdfs/2176.pdf

Palomino Filly in Keeneland Sale
Email Print RSS ShareThisby Deirdre B. Biles
Date Posted: December 11, 2008
Last Updated: December 11, 2008

Splash of Vanilla, a filly by Ballado Chieftan, probably will attract plenty of attention at the upcoming Keeneland January horses of all ages sale in Lexington because of her golden color. She is registered as a palomino.

It will be the first time Keeneland has offered a palomino Thoroughbred in Director of Sales Geoffrey Russell’s memory.

“I was surprised,” Russell said. “I didn’t know that The Jockey Club registered Thoroughbreds as palominos, but they obviously do. It will add a little bit of an extra twist to the sale like it does when we sell white horses.”

Produced by the Guaranteed Gold mare Maid of Gold TB, who is also registered with The Jockey Club as a palomino, Splash of Vanilla is from the family of stakes winner Knight’s Turn. Her consignor is Triple B Stables. The filly was bred in Minnesota by Thomas Bentley and Kevin E. Lay.

Splash of Vanilla, who will be 2-years-old when she is offered next year at Keeneland, is one of 31 horses in the foal crop of 2007 that is registered as a palomino, according to The Jockey Club.

Will be interesting to see what she goes for ... :)

Drvmb1ggl3

Dec. 12, 2008, 07:48 AM

You gotta love the line at the end of her page... "racing or broodmare prospect". At least they have a sense of humour.

Laurierace

Dec. 12, 2008, 08:13 AM

I saw a palomino TB galloping on the track one day at Penn National about ten years ago. I didn't even know there was such a thing until I saw it for myself. Not sure if the horse ever ran or not.

grits

Dec. 12, 2008, 08:56 AM

I don't think this filly is connected with Norsire Farm, but they breed TBs for color (rather than speed).

http://www.norsirefarms.com/

justalittlex

Dec. 12, 2008, 10:05 AM

wow, truecolours, amazing pictures of horses at your site! loved looking at them all!

lrkrame2

Dec. 12, 2008, 10:34 AM

We had a Palamino TB Gelding come through our farm, he was pretty cool: Fiddler on da'hoof.. he was BEAUTIFUL!

TrueColours

Dec. 12, 2008, 10:53 AM

justalittlex - thanks! We try very hard to produce correct athletes that just happen to be interesting colours with interesting markings ... :)

The Maid of Gold dam actually comes from the Trinity Breeders breeding program - the former owners of Guaranteed Gold ... :)

EponaRoan

Dec. 12, 2008, 11:43 AM

You gotta love the line at the end of her page... "racing or broodmare prospect". At least they have a sense of humour.

That's actually just the way they do it with females age 2 and over unless they are already pregnant or proven not to be able to be pregnant (spayed, etc) or are not able to be raced.

If they're not able to be raced, it'll read simply: broodmare prospect. If they're being sold as in-foal broodmares, it'll read: Mated to xx (his pedigree) on y date. Believed to be pregnant. If she hasn't been bred, it'll read: Not mated. If she hasn't checked in foal, it'll read Mated to XX (his pedigree), last service y date. Believed to be not pregnant.

Drvmb1ggl3

Dec. 12, 2008, 12:42 PM

That's actually just the way they do it with females age 2 and over unless they are already pregnant or proven not to be able to be pregnant (spayed, etc) or are not able to be raced.

If they're not able to be raced, it'll read simply: broodmare prospect. If they're being sold as in-foal broodmares, it'll read: Mated to xx (his pedigree) on y date. Believed to be pregnant. If she hasn't been bred, it'll read: Not mated. If she hasn't checked in foal, it'll read Mated to XX (his pedigree), last service y date. Believed to be not pregnant.

I'm aware of that. It does make one chuckle though to see those words connected to a horse that is not really bred to be a racehorse, the bottom side is several generations of colour breeding.
The damsire never raced and has never sired a foal that left a starting gate.
The damsire's sire in turn also never sired a horse that raced.
The 2nd damsire had a whopping 9 starters in his whole career as a sire (20 odd years?).
You have to go back to the 4th dam to find any tenuous connection to black type.

The sire himself is a genuine race sire, but in his, albeit young, career he doesn't have figures that would evoke much interest among buyers. The couple of offspring that he has had that went through sales averaged $1500.

Let's face it, if this filly was chestnut, bay, brown, grey etc, she would have little value as either a racehorse or racing broodmare prospect, and would unlikely be run through the ring at Keeneland. It's all about the colour of the coat.

Equilibrium

Dec. 12, 2008, 02:25 PM

Patchen Beauty also has a White Colt going through by Devil His Due. A few more winners on the page as well!

Terri

Blonde Filly

Dec. 12, 2008, 03:47 PM

I don't think this filly is connected with Norsire Farm, but they breed TBs for color (rather than speed).

http://www.norsirefarms.com/

I don't think anyone mentioned this filly being connected with Norsire Farm at all and we DON'T breed TBs for "just" color.

Zillionair at the moment is 15th in the nation for leading hunter sires and not all the points are in yet for the year.
http://www.usef.org/_IFrames/pointsAwards/points/leadingSires.aspx?year=2008&viewCat=HunterBreeding

Gold Tycoon is 6th in the nation for 2 year olds hunter breeding.
http://www.usef.org/_IFrames/pointsAwards/points/pointsDisplay.aspx?year=2008&zone=0&section=1902

Gold Tycoon is 1st in Zone 8 for the year
http://www.usef.org/_IFrames/pointsAwards/points/pointsDisplay.aspx?year=2008&zone=8&section=1902

Gold Tycoon is also 12th in Zone 2.

I'm listed as 13th in the nation as a breeder.

But to answer the question of racing, we do have one client who bred her mare twice to Zillionair and is planning on racing her two...one is a colt and one is filly. There is also one that will be starting in Jan. 2009 that I bred and sold...can't wait to see how he does.

Here are a few photos of Gifted Gold the filly in KY.
http://www.norsirefarms.com/giftedgold7half1.jpg

http://www.norsirefarms.com/giftedgold7half22.jpg

http://www.norsirefarms.com/fullofhappiness061thumb2.jpg

It will be interesting to see how this filly does at Keenland.

I will let you know how the one that is staring in Jan. 2009 does once he starts racing. :yes:

Happy Holidays to everyone!!! :D

Jessi P

Dec. 12, 2008, 06:55 PM

There is currently a palomino in training here at Mountaineer but I have not been impressed with him as a racehorse. When I have seen him gallop he definitely goes like a "log wagon".... but more power to his connections for trying to get an actual WIN/race record with one of these pally TBs.

It will be interesting to see what the filly brings at Keeneland.

Blonde Filly

Dec. 12, 2008, 07:57 PM

SpecialEffects

Dec. 12, 2008, 09:09 PM

Jessi P.... The pally at Mountaineer has just been given the go ahead from the vet that his joints are finally closed and they have just started to condition him lightly. He's a late baby (end of May) but is a 16.2 (and still growing!) 2 year old so they're taking it slowly with him until he grows into his body a bit. They just started him on the track mid/end November, in all the ice and crap that Mountaineer gets, so hopefully he'll look a bit less like a "log wagon" ;) and more like a racehorse when the conditions are better and he has some muscle on him. They're thrilled with his work ethic and hope he has some speed behind the good attitude. I'm just pleased that they're taking the time and care starting this 'large' kid..... who knew he'd end up so friggin big, his dam is 15.3?
It's fun watching him out there though. :)

grits

Dec. 13, 2008, 12:47 AM

I don't think anyone mentioned this filly being connected with Norsire Farm at all and we DON'T breed TBs for "just" color.

Glad to see you on this thread! I sure didn't mean to suggest that you breed "just" for color - only that speed isn't your primary concern. Conformation, soundness, and athletic ability are not compromised by good breeding for color, and your breeding program testifies to that. :winkgrin:

Blonde Filly

Dec. 13, 2008, 09:05 AM

Glad to see you on this thread! I sure didn't mean to suggest that you breed "just" for color - only that speed isn't your primary concern. Conformation, soundness, and athletic ability are not compromised by good breeding for color, and your breeding program testifies to that. :winkgrin:

grits Thank you so much for the lovely comments! :D Yes we don't primarily breed for the race track...more for an all around sporthorses with excellent conformation, soundness, athletic ability, heart of gold temperment, and a pretty head doesn't hurt with the extra bonce of color for the sweet icing on the cake!!! :winkgrin:

Specialeffects seems you know this colt/gelding very well...does IT have a name? :confused: I think it would be very cool for a palomino to "win" a race on the track someday and maybe with 4 currently at it..one of the 4 will make it soon!!! :yes: I know the two in KY are slated to run and so is the one I bred so 3 from my program that I currently know about. :)

Jessi P

Dec. 13, 2008, 03:27 PM

Name of pally at Mountaineer?

No clue, I dont believe he has run yet. I see him once or twice a week on the track.

Edited to add that I just now read your post SE and it makes sense - being a young horse and just getting legged up. What is his breeding, and who is training him?

Jessi P

Dec. 13, 2008, 03:32 PM

SE regarding the winter conditions at Mnr.... I have a 2 yo W Va bred I would just LOVE to keep in training to try to run early as a 3 yo, but we have just made the decision (yesterday) to lay him up and bring him back in late Feb/early March because with the track conditions it's impossible to get any sort of consistent training into them. Some mornings, usually after the jocks have refused to ride the night before, the track is closed for training while they work the track to see if they can get it decent for that night's racing. All in all, its a tough time of the year to be training young horses.

SpecialEffects

Dec. 13, 2008, 08:05 PM

Jessi P.... yeah I had a long talk with one of his owners last night - almost 3 hours is long isn't it :eek: - and they have decided to send some of the kiddies down to Florida so they don't miss training time over the next 2 or 3 months. The guy I was talking to, who doubles as his trainer as well, said that he'd just be sick if any of them got injured because they hit a lump if ice incorrectly and ended up being laid up for weeks or months because of it. So one gelding, the pally and two yearling fillies are going to be living the life I'd like right around now! As I said, I adore these guys and the fabulous care and consideration they give to the well being of their horses. Bad part though, is I'm pretty much not going to be able to visit for the day or weekends. :no: Scooting back and forth between ON and PA and/or WV is one thing but this would be kind of pushing it! :D

The pally is aka Beyond Blonde - Guaranteed Gold x Special Lady. His trainer is Jim Farris and he's owned by TJ Squared Stables. He was not bred for racing but the trainer liked his type and was also very impressed by what he saw in both the sire and dam, so he was willing to take a chance on him. I just hope he rewards their time and their faith in him, with a respectable effort. That what we all wish... isn't it? :)

vineyridge

Dec. 14, 2008, 11:18 AM

On another TB color note, a maximal sabeeeeeno (i.e pure white) just won the G2 Japanese Oaks.

Griffyn

Dec. 14, 2008, 11:28 AM

I dont know TB's from Adam, but the pic of the colt being ponied on the track is to die for- what a cute face what with the big white blaze and all.

Blonde Filly

Dec. 14, 2008, 05:33 PM

On another TB color note, a maximal sabeeeeeno (i.e pure white) just won the G2 Japanese Oaks.

Cool! Do you have a "win" photo of him? :)

Blonde Filly

Dec. 14, 2008, 05:35 PM

Here are a few photos of Gifted Gold the filly in KY.
http://www.norsirefarms.com/giftedgold7half1.jpg

http://www.norsirefarms.com/giftedgold7half22.jpg

http://www.norsirefarms.com/fullofhappiness061thumb2.jpg

It will be interesting to see how this filly does at Keenland.

I will let you know how the one that is staring in Jan. 2009 does once he starts racing. :yes:

Happy Holidays to everyone!!! :D

Are you referring to the "colt" in these photos above? If so it is actually a filly and she is not being ponied...maybe you are referring to another photo?

Drvmb1ggl3

Dec. 15, 2008, 01:19 AM

Cool! Do you have a "win" photo of him? :)

Japanese Oaks.

Btw, Tall Poppy (http://japanracing.jp/_news2008/images/080525-02.jpg) who won the Japanese Oaks G1 is not white, she's bay.

Vineyridge is probably thinking of Yukichan (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9b/Yukichan_20080427.jpg), the winner of the Kanto Oaks G2 on dirt, who is a well bred race horse who by chance happens to be white.

Blonde Filly

Dec. 15, 2008, 08:57 AM

Japanese Oaks.

Btw, Tall Poppy (http://japanracing.jp/_news2008/images/080525-02.jpg) who won the Japanese Oaks G1 is not white, she's bay.

Vineyridge is probably thinking of Yukichan (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9b/Yukichan_20080427.jpg), the winner of the Kanto Oaks G2 on dirt, who is a well bred race horse who by chance happens to be white.

Thank you for the photos. :)

WhiteCamry

Dec. 15, 2008, 10:13 AM

On another TB color note, a maximal sabeeeeeno (i.e pure white) just won the G2 Japanese Oaks.

What's her name? Have you a link to that?

hitchinmygetalong

Dec. 15, 2008, 10:18 AM

Splash of Vanilla is going in the January sales.

http://auctions.bloodhorse.com/article/48403.htm

Hip Number 2176.

http://apps.keeneland.com/sales/jan09/pdfs/2176.pdf

Will be interesting to see what she goes for ... :)

Hate to be the voice of reason, here, but she will probably about what other horses with no racing page but are a quirky color have gone for in previous Kentucky sales - not much. Especially that late in the sale.

hitchinmygetalong

Dec. 15, 2008, 10:19 AM

What's her name? Have you a link to that?

See post #24

Jessi P

Dec. 15, 2008, 11:57 AM

How much did the last palomino bring at auction, any idea? And wasnt there one in Australia that actually did go for a decent $ but with a nice pedigree to go along with it? My memory is going... it's the OldsHeimer's kicking in.

enjoytheride

Dec. 15, 2008, 05:37 PM

A question about the sire standing. Is that just number of mares they bred too? Does that have anything to do with the performance of the foals or the stallion?

Blonde Filly

Dec. 16, 2008, 12:41 PM

I got this interesting e-mail today about the palomino filly going through the sale in Jan. Seems there is a lot of talk on the subject..but none of the TB Palominos at this point have much of a racing pedigree..including mine. Very interesting prospective from someone who has bred a few palominos and would love to see them race and win someday.
This was the e-mail sent to her below.
Please take a moment to have a look at the attached advertisement.

In the past decade there have been hundreds of thousands of thoroughbreds paraded through the prestigious Keeneland sales pavillion. During that stretch there have been horses listed as black, brown, chestnut, gray, roan, gray/roan, bay, dark bay/brown and even white. In the upcoming January sale, Book 3 contains our entry as the FIRST JOCKEY CLUB REGISTERED PALOMINO THOROUGHBRED ever listed in a Keeneland sale catalogue.

[edit]

Her comments on the Keenland Sale.

I don't think they did a very good ad for this sale.. the picture was horrible and turned me off more than on. pretty washed out color, and looks small and not that great of conformation, the pictures just tells you nothing about the horse that is useful other than a cream colored horse. to go to Keeneland in this economy with a palomino I would have wanted one that was by a Lexington stallion out of a Palomino mare.. so perhaps the dam was unraced, but the sire was a nice proven race stud, showing you had purpose in the breeding to point it towards racing and that is why it is at the Keeneland sale. .not just because it is a fluke of color, or at least be a very above average individual conformationally for what the race buyers are looking for. I can't see if the knees are crooked but if they are and if it is small then I would be embarassed to have it there.. It will be interesting to see what happens. I also would have tried to get my advertising to conform with the industry standard, not be so back yardish. Not the best of times to be doing this as people are really looking hard at the over breeding issues in the race world right now where people are just breeding too many unwanted horses for perceived personal gain and the economy can not support them, nor do the breeders once they are gone from thier farms and thier race careers are over.. the rescues are all filled up and in Ky the hay shortage etc... I have culled out all of my personal mares and doing the same with the studs etc. Looking to castrate or place the studs, Sport horse people are not buying and neither are race clients, there is no reason to be breeding right now knowing that there will be very few outlets that can support the resulting horses properly, unless you plan to keep and race or show the prospect yourself.
That all said the paint lady did get a good price that year on her 2 paints at Keeneland.. but the one that brought 80k was a nice individual.. he had good looks. .that balanced build, with a big chest/hip very filled out stocky yet athletic individual, big and correct. That body type will sell at Keeneland as they look like early maturers that are powerful, balanced, big and athletic..but that price was a shock to me and many, mostly fueled by one crazy bidder, I would not expect that again. [edit] If it was a dark gold with a white mane/tail and training to the point of having some nice published works, but had no pedigree behind it, then maybe.. but I expect it will bring 10k or less and that just does not make it worth the expense of sale prepping and getting it there in my opinion. I hope I'm proved wrong. But it will be something people will have fun talking about and the owner/consigner will get some attention. In the beginning it will be good attention, I just hope it stays that way when it is all said and done. The press are hungry for some sacraficial lambs on the horse over population issue. Keeneland sales are down and the sales have cataloged the most ever horses this year.. driving the averages down to just a few thousand dollars for even horses with 15-30k stud fees paid. For a client I purchased a super handsome El Corredor yearling for 7k (25k stud fee) that was correct, big, and had a clean scope and xrays, and out of a stake mare. The purses in Ky are so low right now that people are not paying much for the horses anyway. Indiana breds will bring more money.

My trainer had some fun talking about my colt as he was at a stake table with some big trainer clients of his and they did bring up the palomino entry at Keeneland he was having fun with being able to say yep I've got a palo in the barn in training, and had pictures on his cell phone to prove it.. it has brought many to actually realize that palominos exist and are registered.. but I think that is about it, just gee wiz talk. I told my trainer to tell everyone he is for sale and even though it is brought up in conversation no one has said cool I"ll buy him! ha. I still would LOVE to see a palomino race in Ky.. even if it is not mine.. the lady that owns the website said if I had one in training at Churchill Downs track it would sell when people there saw it.. I"m not so sure.

[edit]

I got a flyer on it too..but it is too big for COTH attachment..so don't think I can post it here. But it shows the filly out grazing in the field with her dam as a baby...not very flattering photo and she is now 2 so..they should have done a more updated photo of the filly going through the sale..this is why she talks about in the above comments they did not do a great job promoting the filly for the sale.

I can e-mail the flyer to anyone who wants to see the flyer.

Moderator 1

Dec. 17, 2008, 09:33 AM

We received a heads-up re: this thread, so we added some quotes to the previous post to clarify who was saying what and removed a few specific comments re: horses for sale. ;) Think we got the quote placement right, Blonde Filly, but feel free to move 'em around if we didn't.

You're welcome to discuss the concept of palominos in the racing industry, etc., with this filly going through Keeneland as a jumping off point; just limit the references to specific horses for sale.

Thanks!
Mod 1

Blonde Filly

Dec. 29, 2008, 05:25 PM

What day is this sale in Jan? No one mentioned that in any of the above post. TIA :)

grits

Dec. 29, 2008, 11:16 PM

What day is this sale in Jan? No one mentioned that in any of the above post. TIA :)

12-17 January are the sale dates, and I think it will be streamed from their site (http://www.keeneland.com/sales/Events/calendar.aspx).

Blonde Filly

Jan. 8, 2009, 10:42 AM

12-17 January are the sale dates, and I think it will be streamed from their site (http://www.keeneland.com/sales/Events/calendar.aspx).

9 days to go!!! :)

KBEquine

Jan. 10, 2009, 12:34 PM

There's another palomino in race training - a 3 y.o. who may still be at Tampa Bay or may have moved. Canadian Light [I think] by Canadian Kid.

Equinoxfox

Jan. 13, 2009, 02:55 PM

I am watching the sale now . There is a live feed to it . I can NOT believe the prices of some of the Broodmares. WOW , talk about expensive. I can not wait to see this filly go thru the sale.
Have any of you watched and noticed a trend of the prices.?
They are on Hip # 644 now !!!!

Jessi P

Jan. 13, 2009, 03:00 PM

Prices are down.

http://auctions.bloodhorse.com/article/48757.htm

Here is a blurb:

The results were grim, but not surprising, as Keeneland opened its January horses of all ages sale in Lexington during a time of worldwide economic downturns. The gross revenue Jan. 12 plummeted 44% from the auction’s first session in 2008 while the average price dropped 45.9%. The median price suffered the most damage, falling 50.9%.

It didn’t help Keeneland’s bottom line when Azeri, the 2002 Horse of the Year, failed to sell for a final bid of $4.4 million.

“It’s a very tough market, but if you’ve got some quality, you can get your horses sold,” said Duncan Taylor of Taylor Made Sales Agency. “I don’t really think it’s any worse than it was in November (during the 2008 Keeneland breeding stock sale). Some of the cheaper stuff here might have gotten hammered worse at the beginning because everybody was feeling each other out and the sale started off damn soft. But since some of the better stuff has gone through, the market seems pretty fair.”

The 202 horses that sold grossed $11,945,900 and averaged $59,138. The median was $27,000. Last year, 195 horses were sold during the first session for a gross of $21,325,900 and an average of $109,364. The median was $55,000.

The buy-back rate fell from 33% in 2008 to 26.5% this year.

Jessi P

Jan. 13, 2009, 03:02 PM

If you want to try to analyze it, to me it does seem to me that the non- commercial and/or non "traditional" pedigrees are going for peanuts. If you have a nice commerical page then you are ok, but without that you're in trouble.

Equinoxfox

Jan. 13, 2009, 03:27 PM

I noticed they just had a Broodmare that did NOT sell ? Is that the first one for this sale.
Now explain to me . IF she did NOT sell and she is NOT in foal. Will the owners try again with her . Or will they just get rid of her .
I did notice she was about 12 yrs old though.
Just courious . :confused:

Equinoxfox

Jan. 13, 2009, 03:33 PM

WOW look at Hip# 676

LaurieB

Jan. 13, 2009, 06:37 PM

WOW look at Hip# 676

She had very interesting markings. I loved the black and white mane. :)

Sundown Farm

Jan. 13, 2009, 08:11 PM

Who was 676?? I can't watch the sale, as I am on dial up.. :(

LaurieB

Jan. 13, 2009, 10:18 PM

Who was 676?? I can't watch the sale, as I am on dial up.. :(

She was VIZ, an 18 YO mare and multi stakes producer who sold in foal to Hard Spun for 77K. She was very dark bay/brown with what appeared to be a large patch of heavy roaning (mostly white really) that extended from the crest of her neck down over her shoulder on the left side. When viewed from the right, her color appeared normal except that her mane was striped black and white. It was very eye catching. :)

witherbee

Jan. 14, 2009, 09:24 AM

Equinoxfox, they will take that mare home. No sales and Rerserve Not Achieved horses will just go home and possibly be sold privately or kept. Same as any horse or object (I go to antique auctions) that is not sold - the owners do whatever is right for their situation. With these TBs, most go home and are sold privately or many get sold back at the barn at the sale.

Someone will have to post the sales price when this horse goes thru!

Equinoxfox

Jan. 14, 2009, 09:42 AM

HEY THANKS FOR THAT . I AM SO CONCERNED FOR THESE HORSES .. what can I say. I am a sucker for the TB.
I am waiting now to log on. I will be watching most of the day . (at work) . once that Filly goes i will put up a price. I signed off on yesterday around 4:30pm so not sure where they are in order this morning . It is such a wonderful and exciting time to see the American TB have this week long sale.
:yes:

Equinoxfox

Jan. 14, 2009, 10:08 AM

So I am logged on and for some reason the Live Feed is not working?
Is anyone else having this same issue.
The sale was to start at 10am today .:confused:
come on I need my entertainment while I work today..:lol:

hitchinmygetalong

Jan. 14, 2009, 10:14 AM

Be patient and keep trying. They sometimes are a bit late to start.

I sure wouldn't want to be standing in those barns this morning. And it's going to get nothing but colder over the next few days. What a brutal job that is.

Equinoxfox

Jan. 14, 2009, 10:17 AM

Kinsella

Jan. 14, 2009, 10:59 AM

Depends on if you want to buy or tour... I don't think any of the farms tour during the sales, so you have to decide if you want to experience the sales or see the stallions. If it's the sales, I recommend the September yearling sale... It's not cold, the yearlings are stunning, and most of the time you aren't tempted to bring something home. (That said from the view of someone that has a very soft spot for old broodmares) If it's the stallions, I recommend June or July when breeding season is starting to slow down. It's not as hectic for the farms and there are babies everywhere.

Equinoxfox

Jan. 14, 2009, 11:12 AM

My Live Feed is up and running. yeah we are already on Hip # 842 .. getting there. This is such fun to watch .
makes a person want to buy something .:D

grits

Jan. 14, 2009, 11:22 AM

Somebody tell me they have heat lamps in the barns. I hate looking at clipped horses in a forecast of -7F . . . especially the pregnant mares, who don't have a lot of rugging options.

Equinoxfox

Jan. 14, 2009, 11:43 AM

Did you see that colt Hip # 863 sold for $ 390,000 . now that is a big gamble for such a youngster. Boy the trainers/ owners must really put a lot of faith in those bloodlines. :yes:

Equinoxfox

Jan. 14, 2009, 03:43 PM

Looks like Tomorrow is the Big Day..!! They are on hip # 1064 now and boy can not wait. Remember she is hip # 2167 .....

Beezer

Jan. 14, 2009, 04:36 PM

Did you see that colt Hip # 863 sold for $ 390,000 . now that is a big gamble for such a youngster.

Eh, not really. To you and me, sure, but to the folks who play in that pond? Not so much. :)

I'm gathering that this is the first time you've seen a TB sale? If so, you need to realize that it is absolute bloodbath time in TB world, much like it is everywhere in the horse world. Hip no. 863 probably would have brought double or more than that $390,000 last year.

You might want to check out the Bloodhorse (bloodhorse.com) to see what the analysts are saying about the market and what the numbers really say. Short version: It's really bad out there, especially for horses with poor or non-commercial pedigrees.

As for the filly who's the subject of the original post, I really hope the seller has real-world TB racing expectations. I remember a while back when one palomino bred about like this one no-saled at more than $5,000. I'm not sure which was more mind-boggling: that a person interested in a race prospect would go that high for a horse with a non-existent racing pedigree or that the seller had set a reserve so high on said horse. Of course, it may well have later been sold to a show home, since we show people tend to be swayed by a pretty face and color way more than the race people are. :p

luvmytbs

Jan. 14, 2009, 06:26 PM

If you want a palomino that is not going through the sale:

http://www.horsesales.com/fullofhappiness07.htm

and another by the same stud:

http://www.horsesales.com/giftedgold.htm

grits

Jan. 14, 2009, 06:36 PM

If you want a palomino that is not going through the sale:

http://www.horsesales.com/fullofhappiness07.htm

and another by the same stud:

http://www.horsesales.com/giftedgold.htm

The sire, Zillionair, belongs to Blond Filly, who has been posting on this thread.

:D

LaurieB

Jan. 14, 2009, 07:20 PM

Somebody tell me they have heat lamps in the barns. I hate looking at clipped horses in a forecast of -7F . . . especially the pregnant mares, who don't have a lot of rugging options.

Very, very few of the horses in this sale are clipped. I've seen maybe 5 yearlings (all from Florida) and about a dozen racehorses (currently in training.) No one in their right mind would clip a pregnant broodmare for this sale--remember too that the vast majority of these broodmares have been living outside at least 16 hours a day up until they shipped to the sale. As for rugging options...blankets went on everywhere around 4:30 this afternoon. I'm sure everyone is feeling quite cozy.

grits

Jan. 14, 2009, 07:33 PM

Very, very few of the horses in this sale are clipped. I've seen maybe 5 yearlings (all from Florida) and about a dozen racehorses (currently in training.) No one in their right mind would clip a pregnant broodmare for this sale--remember too that the vast majority of these broodmares have been living outside at least 16 hours a day up until they shipped to the sale. As for rugging options...blankets went on everywhere around 4:30 this afternoon. I'm sure everyone is feeling quite cozy.

Thank you for this relief! I'm watching online, and they all appear clipped. Then again, I once trotted past some wintertime spectators in an arena on my TB mare, and overheard them grumble that I had given her a full body clip, when she had a full-grown winter pelt. They are not the shaggiest of breeds.

I'll sleep better tonight. Seriously.

luvmytbs

Jan. 14, 2009, 09:10 PM

The sire, Zillionair, belongs to Blond Filly, who has been posting on this thread.

:D

I wonder if she knows they are for sale?

They are both beautiful, but I have to wonder why the 2007 colt, is already under saddle and training on the track. :(

QHEventr

Jan. 14, 2009, 11:15 PM

The 2007 colt is on the track because most TB's are sent to the track to get broke as Yearlings. He just turned 2, so he was most likely broke in Sept/Oct of LAST year (2008) and given December off....then sent back Jan 1 to further his training. Its normal for race training.....Not odd at all. I have two LATE 2007 babies...one is a June 3rd foal and they won't go to get broke until this summer. They both happen to be immature. However, its commonplace for TB's to get broke as yearlingas and go back into training as early 2 yr olds.

Equinoxfox

Jan. 15, 2009, 08:25 AM

Las Olas

Jan. 15, 2009, 09:37 AM

LuvmyTBs/Equinoxfox,

I break my yearlings young because it is MUCH easier (and safer for everone involved) to do then. I usually start breaking in October/Nov/Dec, depending on foaling date and maturity. I get them to where they can do a light jog, then kick them back out in a field until I think they are mature enough to hit the track.

I'm sure they'll give that guy some time when they think he needs it.

KnKShowmom

Jan. 15, 2009, 10:02 AM

HEY
NEVER BEEN THERE BUT JUST DYING TO GO. so do tell . the weather is it as bad there as it is here in Virginia. And it looks to be TONS of horses there.
would you recommend someone plan to come next year and just spend a week there or is it better to wait until the Spring time when the farms all have their tours going ?

The weather in Ky is more like NY than VA - if you want to go to a sale, Sept is nice with all the yearlings, but my favorite was always November. the weanlings are just too cute and some of those broodmares are just a class-act. Most have been through the sales atleast once in their lives and are pretty cool about it. The most challenging thing about showing a broodie is trying to keep them from cocking a hip while you stand them up! :winkgrin:

The January sale is just plain cold most of the time - the last year I went we had a heat wave of 15 degrees during the whole week - I stood so close to the kero heater the barn manager thought my pants would catch on fire!

KnKShowmom

Jan. 15, 2009, 10:09 AM

i find it so amazing that the Trainers break these "yearlings" . it just floors my mind. But oh well. I guess that is the industry. I just watch in astonishment .
Now on to the sale. Can not wait for 10am . Hope the Live Feed is on time today :yes:

The fall of their yearling year is a good time for them mentally, especially if they have been prepped for a sale, so it just makes good sense to start their education then. You are really working their minds much harder than you do their bodies, but there have been studies that some work (not pounding)while they are still growing actually could add to bone density.

You would be surprised by the size of some of these yearlings - they are no babies, trust me! I have been on and around some that were over 16 hands and if you wait to start a colt when they are 2 or 3 you will have a whole lot more issues to deal with. Much better to start the program before their hormones start controlling their minds!

Equinoxfox

Jan. 15, 2009, 10:17 AM

OH did not know that. I come from a Horse Show world where things are done much later and so different. The Racing Industry is so interesting to me!!:yes:

Equinoxfox

Jan. 15, 2009, 10:21 AM

There are so MANY scratches today from the sale ? I think it might go very fast today . especially with the weather and coming up on the end of the week.
So tell me ,, now that we are getting to the End of the Sale . Do they start the sale with the high dollar horses and work down or is there no specific order for the horses being sold.
Just wondered if there was a Rhyme or Reason behind the order of go ?:confused:

Las Olas

Jan. 15, 2009, 10:28 AM

Nope, the order is alphabetical.

On the Farm

Jan. 15, 2009, 11:02 AM

The fall of their yearling year is a good time for them mentally, especially if they have been prepped for a sale, so it just makes good sense to start their education then. You are really working their minds much harder than you do their bodies, but there have been studies that some work (not pounding)while they are still growing actually could add to bone density.

You would be surprised by the size of some of these yearlings - they are no babies, trust me! I have been on and around some that were over 16 hands and if you wait to start a colt when they are 2 or 3 you will have a whole lot more issues to deal with. Much better to start the program before their hormones start controlling their minds!

I'm out of the business for the time being, but I know exactly what you are saying. Unless a physical issue intervened, we broke our own when they were yearlings, but we also had a couple of clients who insisted on waiting until their horses were two before beginning training. Those were ALWAYS tougher and seemed to be more prone to injury early on.

KnKShowmom

Jan. 15, 2009, 11:10 AM

In my experience, working with race horses is a delicate balance of good horse sense, mental and physical timing and economics. There is the right moment to do something (buy, sell, train, race) with a horse and if you miss that moment, it can be painful for all involved!

The racing industry gets bashed for starting their horses so young, but most of the time that is the "right moment" in the big scheme of their careers - just not evident to those who haven't been there.

Nikki^

Jan. 15, 2009, 12:04 PM

Why are some of these going for peanuts? Even those with good pedigrees and are gorgeous aren't being sold at a high price.

Equinoxfox

Jan. 15, 2009, 12:53 PM

KnKShowmom

Jan. 15, 2009, 01:03 PM

Yeah I noticed the same thing .? It is strange sitting here watching the prices it makes me want to go so I can pick up a couple to make Show Prospects. they are beautiful and look to have great conformation. Boy a Horse Show Trainer could go and really get some nice ones..:yes:

The best potential race horses/broodmares sell first so if you go towards the end of the sale, you can find some nicely put together individuals who will sell for less because of their "page" i.e. not much bold type or a weak bottom line.

Then there will be some who look great on paper but have some physical faults which will cause a low price, especially in this market.

There are usually quite a few people at the end of the sale who want to resell as hunters if the price is right.

Las Olas

Jan. 15, 2009, 01:04 PM

Unless you guys are there, how can you tell they are 'gorgeous?' There's a lot you can't see on a computer screen.

Nikki^

Jan. 15, 2009, 01:16 PM

Unless you guys are there, how can you tell they are 'gorgeous?' There's a lot you can't see on a computer screen.

Well there is the little thing called a "live video" that you can get full screen and you can get a pretty good look at the horses.;)

I can see them very clearly. Besides what I think is gorgeous might not be to other people.

Las Olas

Jan. 15, 2009, 01:49 PM

Jessi P

Jan. 15, 2009, 02:29 PM

;) There's usually a reason for an otherwise well pedigreed individual to sell cheaply. You cant really tell without being there to see them in person.

Beezer

Jan. 15, 2009, 02:32 PM

Nope, the order is alphabetical.

Absolutely, to a certain point. But as you know it :) also goes class/alphabetical. ;) Which is why the better horses always go at the start of the sale.

Why are some of these going for peanuts? Even those with good pedigrees and are gorgeous aren't being sold at a high price.

Assuming the horse(s) is all that one thinks one can see on the live feed ;) , it's because of the horrible economy. If you're in the top 0.00001% of the Thoroughbred market, you're not bothered by it. If you're like the rest of the world, you're going to be thinking really, really hard before buying another horse, particularly a broodmare. No one wants to have a horse (or foal of that horse) that no one else wants.

The TB market worldwide has been heading this direction since the summer sales. (It's also the reason that someone on this very BB was able to pick up a GORGEOUS yearling son by the same sire as one of the leading 2009 Kentucky Derby contenders -- who was recently sold for millions to one of those sheiks we all hear about -- for, well, let's just say she considered it beyond a steal, and that her now 2-year-old is gonna be kicking some serious warmblood butt in the hunter ring in a few years.)

There was a reason Keeneland sales folks were reaching out to sporthorse people to try to get them to come look at all the bargains that would be there. ;) There are many, many people in the TB racing world who think far too many marginally bred and marginally producing horses have been produced for the buyers who want them.

And that's a hard lesson I think anyone breeding horses needs to learn, and most likely will in the long months ahead.

Nikki^

Jan. 15, 2009, 02:35 PM

I have seen the live video and I don't think you can see them that well. If you could, then I can tell you that no one would be out there freezing their tails off, they'd be phone bidding! I was DOS for one of the largest and most prestigious consignors and have looked at (and sold) thousands of horses. I can tell you that there are things that you just cannot see unless you are there looking at the horse. You are only seeing the horse turning circles in a ring. Unless you are seeing the horse walk in person (this applies to the mares also), you have no idea how it moves. Not to mention that you can't see subtle hoof angle differences, blemishes (such as splints, firing, etc), or the radiographs (for the babies/race prospects). You may be able to see a nice body, but the body means nothing without the legs underneath it. ;)

It's not like I am bidding to buy these horse, just looking and seeing what I think is gorgeous. I'm fully aware that if I was serious about getting a horse from the Keeneland Sale I would be there to see the horses that I would like to buy. I would also have a consultant with me to point out the anything that I may have missed and to give me his/her opinion.

What's wrong with having a little fun? :D

Not to mention that you can't see subtle hoof angle differences, blemishes (such as splints, firing, etc), or the radiographs (for the babies/race prospects)

So they do have raidographs of the babies/raceprospects? Neat. Is that one reason why some of these weanlings/yealings aren't going for much money?

Las Olas

Jan. 15, 2009, 02:40 PM

Well, Beezer, I think the lesson will be learned in the long months ahead, but as soon as the demand goes back up, so will the production. You know how it goes ;)

DMK

Jan. 15, 2009, 02:43 PM

And that live feed lets you see an overall picture of the horse, but there is no way you can tell me you can see really important features like over the knee, toed in, back at the knee, club foot, legs almost put on backwards and so on. Even with a full screen, the angle of the camera is not set up to properly evaluate the wheels. And in any racing machine lousy wheels is a Big Problem. And if you've ever seen the photos of the select yearlings and then seen them come in the ring, you quickly realize there is a disconnect - depending on the viewer the feed can stretch a bit. Makes a neck look long, but it also makes a back look longer than it is. Both are deceptive.

There's a real science to looking at TB pedigrees in an unproven animal. Of course a lot of it is about black type but it's equally about nicks (who is bred to who) and where someone is bred and what it has been nominated for, which sire is hot, which one is not, whats a good price based on the stud fee at the time it was paid and so on... If it were easy to figure out a lot more people would not lose their shirt in this business.

Beezer

Jan. 15, 2009, 02:45 PM

Well, Beezer, I think the lesson will be learned in the long months ahead, but as soon as the demand goes back up, so will the production. You know how it goes ;)

:lol: That is too very, very true.

Although, I have to say, since I have a lovely hunter by Gone West ... **if** I were there, that Came Home mare that just went through for $3,500 probably would have had to have come home with me. :p

Las Olas

Jan. 15, 2009, 02:47 PM

Hi Nikki,

I have no doubt you would do your due diligence if you were looking to buy. But, I think your question was why the horses that looked so gorgeous were selling 'for peanuts', so I was giving you a direct answer from a consignor/buyers point of view.

LaurieB

Jan. 15, 2009, 02:52 PM

Although, I have to say, since I have a lovely hunter by Gone West ... **if** I were there, that Came Home mare that just went through for $3,500 probably would have had to have come home with me. :p

We, too, have a Gone West that we like alot. We're hoping our won't turn out to be a hunter though. :lol:

Do you have any pix of yours?

LaurieB

Jan. 15, 2009, 02:55 PM

So they do have raidographs of the babies/raceprospects? Neat. Is that one reason why some of these weanlings/yealings aren't going for much money?

Yes, there's a repository that has xrays from almost all the yearlings and race prospects. Vets are also available to scope them for buyers. And yes, that's one reason why a horse that looks gorgeous in the ring might sell for less than you might expect.

Las Olas

Jan. 15, 2009, 03:03 PM

:lol: That is too very, very true.

Although, I have to say, since I have a lovely hunter by Gone West ... **if** I were there, that Came Home mare that just went through for $3,500 probably would have had to have come home with me. :p

SUPER SELLER? She's a Phipps mare. Love the family, but I don't think the Aragorn and Alumni Hall helped her. Unplaced in 1 start usually means she couldn't hold up to racing, or she was slow enough that they didn't want to do anymore damage (to the page).

Las Olas

Jan. 15, 2009, 03:04 PM

LaurieB!

I see you are in your (warm) office. Wimp! :)

Equinoxfox

Jan. 15, 2009, 03:18 PM

Hey leave Laurie B alone. I really like her. LOL:lol:
I just saw Hip # 1420 go for only 3500 and It was just beautiful and stunning. talk about flash and chrome to boot. Boy would love to go and come back with a couple next year.
It is the way to get some good youngsters. STAY WARM LAURIE B

Beezer

Jan. 15, 2009, 03:25 PM

SUPER SELLER? She's a Phipps mare. Love the family, but I don't think the Aragorn and Alumni Hall helped her. Unplaced in 1 start usually means she couldn't hold up to racing, or she was slow enough that they didn't want to do anymore damage (to the page).

Yup, that's her. :) I figured there had to be a reason she went that cheaply with that page. Aragorn and Alumni Hall make sense as reasons, plus she sure looks like one of the rare black sheep of the family on the track. :lol: But I admit that from what little I could see of her (on the live feed) and my bias for the sire line, I kept thinking: Bet she'd have some nice hunter babies! :p

LaurieB, my guy actually did manage to break his maiden and place a couple of times ... he was just of the opinion that being a racehorse, even at the small tracks he was at, was far more work than he was interested in doing. :lol: He does, however, have a far more respectable full-brother. :p He is a gorgeous boy, even people other than his admittedly biased mother think so.

And ... wow. No takers at even $1,000 for Hip. No. 1427. That's gotta hurt.

Equinoxfox

Jan. 15, 2009, 03:41 PM

THAT is what I am saying . So many going for $ 1k or not selling at all .
And even some of the pregnant Broodmares.. WOW .. it is such a bad market this year .

LaurieB

Jan. 15, 2009, 03:45 PM

Back attcha Las Olas! :lol:

Equinoxfox, thanks for the warm thoughts. :yes:

Beezer, there's a reason Came Home is in Korea. His offspring very often look better from a distance. ;)

We're leaving to head over to the sale shortly. There's one late selling mare I have my eye on...

Equinoxfox

Jan. 15, 2009, 03:50 PM

BEST OF LUCK. chat tomorrow want to know all about the sale.
Keep me posted. I am living thru you in Kentucky..
stay warm.:yes:

Las Olas

Jan. 15, 2009, 03:54 PM

We??? Smart man, that Mr. B. Someone needs to keep an eye on where your hands are. ;)

grits

Jan. 15, 2009, 05:02 PM

Article and photo of the titular Palomino filly. (http://auctions.bloodhorse.com/article/48812.htm)

LaurieB

Jan. 15, 2009, 07:44 PM

Well we didn't get her. I'm disappointed. Mr. LaurieB is happy. :D

Jessi P

Jan. 15, 2009, 08:01 PM

Care to share which one you were looking at, Laurie?

Las Olas

Jan. 15, 2009, 08:09 PM

Well, tell him Congrats! Major purchase averted!

The market may be down, but decent prospects are still bringing good money. I had Richard bidding on the Pulpit - Watch The Time filly for me, and she brought more than we expected given her physical.

LaurieB

Jan. 15, 2009, 08:26 PM

LaurieB

Jan. 15, 2009, 08:31 PM

The market may be down, but decent prospects are still bringing good money. I had Richard bidding on the Pulpit - Watch The Time filly for me, and she brought more than we expected given her physical.

I saw that filly, and agree with you on the eventual price. :yes:

The other one we were interested in was #463 Jelani (Smarty Jones x La Gueriere). The owner bought her back for 145K which, like you said above, was more than we expected given the physical and her circumstances.

Las Olas

Jan. 15, 2009, 09:01 PM

Surprising, the sire didn't help her any either. I do love that old Perkins family, tho.

Beezer

Jan. 15, 2009, 09:30 PM

Jessi P, The mare we wanted was Dean's List (hip 1526) by Holy Bull. She was part of the Mack Robinson dispersal and was big and pretty, though not entirely correct; stakes placed and in foal to Cherokee Run. 75K was a fair price for her, but more than we wanted to pay in this market. Judging by who signed for her, it looks as though she'll probably go to South America.

OMGiH! I swear, I saw that mare and said to the person who caught me at work watching the sale: "I bet this is the mare someone I kinda know said she was gonna try and get." :lol:

Great minds, and all that. :p

Equinoxfox

Jan. 15, 2009, 09:43 PM

So do we know if any of these Yearlings / Prospects were even brought to do anything other than race? Just courious if any of " US Hunter People" were there at the sale. :lol:

LaurieB

Jan. 15, 2009, 10:51 PM

OMGiH! I swear, I saw that mare and said to the person who caught me at work watching the sale: "I bet this is the mare someone I kinda know said she was gonna try and get." :lol:

Great minds, and all that. :p

LOL Beezer, I always knew we had more in common than both working with words. :)

Equinoxfox

Jan. 16, 2009, 08:26 AM

Hey LaurieB.. So tell me what hip number did we end on last night. I had to go to the barn after work and ride a couple. ( Thank GOD for a nice Indoor) . so updates please.. Who brought anything? I guess today is the last day and the prices , will they be High or Low dollar.? Do explain.:confused:

luvmytbs

Jan. 16, 2009, 08:48 AM

You can review the results here:

http://www.keeneland.com/sales/Lists/Sale/results.aspx

Sundown Farm

Jan. 16, 2009, 09:17 AM

When do we expect 1832 to go through?

grits

Jan. 16, 2009, 11:51 AM

When do we expect 1832 to go through?

Rough estimate of pace, based on watching, is 50/hour. They are currently on Hip #1650 just before noon, EDT.

Jessi P

Jan. 16, 2009, 01:28 PM

At 1:30 they are on hip 1742.

Laurie I really liked both of those mares too - we watched the Pulpit mare sell with interest because we have a Pulpit gelding and I wanted to see her general confo. Also loved the AP Indy - I just love him. What great broodmares he is going to have with the strong female families that were bred to him. I believe we watched her sell on the first day. And the Holy bull mare - I think he got a lot of nice mares to him as well and his daughters will do well as broodies. Darren loves HB, he is a sucker for a nice gray. Gotta love Marquetry as a broodie sire - he throws some runners, and often throws some wild color as a bonus. We have a Marquetry grandson (by Artax) and he is a wildly colored sabino, Loveable Lo (pretty well bred in his own right).

How many mares do you currently have?

Las Olas

Jan. 16, 2009, 01:42 PM

At 1:30 they are on hip 1742.

Gotta love Marquetry as a broodie sire - he throws some runners, and often throws some wild color as a bonus.

You like Marquetry as a BM sire? Why??? He was a useful enough stallion, but I didn't realize he has done anything as a BM sire.

Jessi P

Jan. 16, 2009, 01:44 PM

Well more specifically I like Marquetry, not specifically as a broodie sire.

Glimmerglass

Jan. 16, 2009, 01:46 PM

Article and photo of the titular Palomino filly. (http://auctions.bloodhorse.com/article/48812.htm)

Further on Splash of Vanilla having arrived at Keeneland (http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/48812/palomino-filly-arrives-at-keeneland)

Las Olas

Jan. 16, 2009, 01:50 PM

I had an Apalachee mare that I always wanted to breed to him, but never did. He just wasn't/isn't/will ever be commercial enough. I just loved his sire though. OMG, to win the Met and the Belmont in 5 days. What a feat.

Equinoxfox

Jan. 16, 2009, 02:12 PM

So it looks like according to the Hip numbers that the Filly is going to auction on Saturday. Wouldn't you know it .. I am going up to Maryland to try a new horse for me. So more than likely I am going to miss it. AFTER ALL this conversation and excitement .. So someone needs to get it on tape so I can YouTube it .. LOL ..
Just my luck . But you know . I have to go and ride this horse . he is awesome .
:cry:

Las Olas

Jan. 16, 2009, 02:20 PM

Seems like everything is on youtube these days, so I'm sure someone will post it.

Good luck with the horse.

Beezer

Jan. 16, 2009, 02:23 PM

I guess today is the last day and the prices , will they be High or Low dollar.? Do explain.:confused:

No, tomorrow (Saturday) is the last day. About 400 horses are scheduled to go through (depending on the number of outs).

Generally speaking, the weakest lots go at the end of multi-day TB sales. They still go alphabetically (again, for the most part), much as the days earlier in the sale did. Can you still get the occasional six-figure horse on the last day? Sure. But usually that happens only if somebody close up in the family suddenly became really, really hot since the catalog was printed (which is why you can, on occasion, hear them say something along the lines of "since the catalog was printed, XYZ won ZYX stakes").

So, in general, these will be lower-priced horses than you tend to see in the first session.

eventer4eva

Jan. 16, 2009, 02:24 PM

hiya. Just thought y'all would like some pictures of the Palomino Filly taken today at Keeneland. She looks great! nicely put together, clean xrays and scope. according to the owner/consignor (who is a really nice guy, btw) she's been in training in KY since late last year and is doing great. she's very sweet... hopefully she finds a great new home!

I've also posted pics of Hip 1832 a white yearling colt from Patchen Wilkes named "White Prince".

http://www.flickr.com/photos/58379387@N00/sets/72157612647882640/

ps the grooms for both of these horses say that they have had a real blast keeping these youngsters clean and show prep ready... I feel for them!!!!

Equinoxfox

Jan. 16, 2009, 02:29 PM

OH WOW. THANKS FOR SHARING THOSE PICS
those are very nice looking . The filly looks very lovely and put together very nice.
That white colt is interesting also . can not wait to see what he brings today.

You are so right about You Tube. I will check it out tomorrow night...
After I thaw out from being outside all day. I must be crazy.:eek:

eventer4eva

Jan. 16, 2009, 02:38 PM

I'll be out starting at 6am tomorrow, if I happen to be able to escape my post to get to the ring when she goes through I will be happy to get video.... :)

Equinoxfox

Jan. 16, 2009, 03:06 PM

IN THE RING NOW. The white colt. Sold for $ 60K :winkgrin:

DLee

Jan. 16, 2009, 03:07 PM

Wow, 60k, yay! He was cute too. :yes:

Equinoxfox

Jan. 16, 2009, 03:14 PM

I really like the one in the ring now. He is very dark bay almost black. with the white. Very refined looking
would make a awesome Show Hunter . Send him here to virginia. :lol:

DLee

Jan. 16, 2009, 03:30 PM

I really like the one in the ring now. He is very dark bay almost black. with the white. Very refined looking
would make a awesome Show Hunter . Send him here to virginia. :lol:

I know, me too! This is really painful to watch. But I am. not. going. down. there.

Equinoxfox

Jan. 16, 2009, 03:36 PM

I want to go next year. I want to get one of those Yearlings. I can not believe the quality. the looks. and most of all the price.
I am sure they would make a very lovely Show Hunter and I am so willing to take a gamble on one. Just have to know plan the trip . :D

eventer4eva

Jan. 16, 2009, 03:40 PM

IN THE RING NOW. The white colt. Sold for $ 60K :winkgrin:

wow 60k? hmmm I am seriously surprised... interesting... can't wait to see who signed the ticket on him....

DLee

Jan. 16, 2009, 03:41 PM

Equinoxfox

Jan. 16, 2009, 03:42 PM

YEAH MUST BE IN THE BLOODLINES. But they can also keep him whole and stand him at stud if he does not run well.? i guess.? not sure . I know nothing about the racing industry.

Equinoxfox

Jan. 16, 2009, 03:44 PM

Look at Hip # 1865 !!! very Flashy and full of Chrome. see that is what I am saying . We need to buy these instead of importing all those WB's.. :eek:

eventer4eva

Jan. 16, 2009, 03:51 PM

Look at Hip # 1865 !!! very Flashy and full of Chrome. see that is what I am saying . We need to buy these instead of importing all those WB's.. :eek:

all day long I see these adorable flashy babies and think "hmmm he would look really nice with that white face tucked into those white knees over a fence"... they are ALL OVER THE PLACE and many bargains to be had (especially in this economy and especially at the "mixed" type sales).

race people don't seem to give a hoot about chrome and personally I would be fine with a lesser pedigree and smokin' hot looks.

so yes please come and grab these babies! I'm sure they would be really happy to live the life as a show horse!!

:)

Beezer

Jan. 16, 2009, 03:51 PM

wow 60k? hmmm I am seriously surprised... interesting... can't wait to see who signed the ticket on him....

You and me both, LOL. There is no way that pedigree page was worth it ... of course, I said the same thing about The Green Monkey, too. :p (Although time certainly proved the right of that assessment, eh?)

eventer4eva

Jan. 16, 2009, 03:54 PM

You and me both, LOL. There is no way that pedigree page was worth it ... of course, I said the same thing about The Green Monkey, too. :p (Although time certainly proved the right of that assessment, eh?)

not to mention a wickedly toed-out rf along with some other less than desirable confirmation pieces. someone really really wanted to own a piece of the legendary Patchen Wilkes bloodlines, I guess!

Acertainsmile

Jan. 16, 2009, 04:07 PM

Look at Hip # 1865 !!! very Flashy and full of Chrome. see that is what I am saying . We need to buy these instead of importing all those WB's.. :eek:

Amen to that statement!!!! It would sure make it easier for us TB folks to rehome some of our horses...

Las Olas

Jan. 16, 2009, 04:12 PM

race people don't seem to give a hoot about chrome and personally I would be fine with a lesser pedigree and smokin' hot looks.

:)

Yep. I prefer my racers a nice plain shade of bay. No white to scrub and keep clean, no white feet to deal with. I love the chrome to look at, but practicality wins for me.

DMK

Jan. 16, 2009, 05:51 PM

not to mention a wickedly toed-out rf along with some other less than desirable confirmation pieces. someone really really wanted to own a piece of the legendary Patchen Wilkes bloodlines, I guess!

Maybe they were hoping all the other horses would stand frozen in fear when the gates opened because of the WHITE HORSE. Might could win a race or two if nobody passes him! :D

When i first rode my old hunter down the road to my trainer's farm, I had to pass by a world famous yellowmino farm (of the QH variety). The first time I passed by there and there were not one, not two but THREE yellowminos :eek: out in the front field being schooled , I discovered my just-barely-an-OTTB had real upper level potential. Upper level as in airs above the ground. Hard to believe he never saw a yellowmino pony horse in 3 years of racing, but that's what he would have me believe. :D

DMK

Jan. 16, 2009, 05:55 PM

hhhhmmmm

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/48839/white-colt-brings-60000-at-keeneland

Ooops. Not a particularly auspicious note for a pinhooker to go public with!

Christy Whitman, a Florida pinhooker, bought what she thought was a unique yearling during the fifth session of the Keeneland January horses of all ages auction, and she’s hoping that shoppers at a future sale will be attracted by his white coat color, which is unusual for a Thoroughbred. Whitman, who paid $60,000 for White Prince, plans to make him part of her consignment at the Ocala Breeders’ Sales Co. August yearling auction. And if he doesn’t find a new home there, she’ll get him ready for a sale of 2-year-olds in training in 2010.

“He is very unique individual,” she said in a telephone interview Jan. 16. “I bought him for his white coat, but I also like his sire

Texarkana

Jan. 16, 2009, 07:34 PM

LaurieB

Jan. 16, 2009, 07:39 PM

hhhhmmmm

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/48839/white-colt-brings-60000-at-keeneland

Ooops. Not a particularly auspicious note for a pinhooker to go public with!

It sounds like she's going to be in for a rude awakening when she finds out that none of the other racehorse owners care about color or are willing to pay extra for it.

Beezer

Jan. 16, 2009, 07:48 PM

There's hope for the palomino filly yet! :lol:

Ya know, that's exactly what I thought! Fools and their money and all that. Sad thing is, the other two horses the seller brought are actually much nicer mares, pedigree-wise. Frankly, if he wanted unusually colored runners (which he said in one of the Bloodhorse articles), he'd be better off breeding the bay mares he already has to one of the palomino or cremello TBs out there. While the foal might not be a palomino (although it could happen), at least that way the foal would be coming from a family that had a racing record. ;)

A quick search shows that this is by far the most she's ever paid for a sales horse; most of the others were well under $10k, with many going for less than $5k. I wonder what her partner's gonna say?

Alagirl

Jan. 16, 2009, 08:00 PM

hoping for some dope sporthorse breeder to jump at the chance?

TrueColours

Jan. 17, 2009, 12:53 PM

Gosh - I would have taken 2119 in a heartbeat! She no saled at $1000.00 ...

What a lovely looking mare ...

DMK

Jan. 17, 2009, 01:36 PM

It sounds like she's going to be in for a rude awakening when she finds out that none of the other racehorse owners care about color or are willing to pay extra for it.

No to mention this master plan of paying extra for color with some grand plan to make it back at ... OBS?

Don't get me wrong, I adore Ocala, but isn't that a bit like buying at Nordies or Needless Markup and trying to pass it off as a bargain to a Macy's sale shopper? :lol:

TrueColours

Jan. 17, 2009, 01:52 PM

VERY interesting ... she sold for $14,000.00 ... anyone know who got her?

cottagefarm

Jan. 17, 2009, 01:54 PM

Sounded like they were trying to get to the 15k mark!
Do you think she sold?

aurum

Jan. 17, 2009, 02:08 PM

I followed the bidding online, the filly looked lovely! And I think she got a good price. When you look at all the others that did not even go for 1000 USD she really fetched a nice price I would say.

Laurierace

Jan. 17, 2009, 03:09 PM

It is ironic in light of all the poop poohing race trackers do over color that two colored horses would sell above much better pedigreed non colored horses at one of our elite sales. I don't know if I want to know what that says for the future of our industry.

Pat Ness

Jan. 17, 2009, 04:30 PM

I agree LaurieRace - I could not believe how much that filly brought and color is the last thing that is going to help the TB race horse. I was shocked at the price. I was guessing 1700.00 for the filly - although my guess was probably low for a 2 year in training.

Jessi P

Jan. 17, 2009, 05:21 PM

And the colt goes back home:

http://auctions.bloodhorse.com/article/48844.htm

White Prince, whose $60,000 price topped the fifth session of the Keeneland January horses of all ages auction in Lexington Jan. 16, did not go to a new home. The transaction was voided because the buyer had not established credit at the level at which the white yearling colt was sold, according to Keeneland vice president Harvie Wilkinson.

White Prince’s breeder, Warren Rosenthal, “very graciously agreed” to take back the colt to settle the matter, Wilkinson said Jan. 17.

QHEventr

Jan. 17, 2009, 05:21 PM

Whoops! The White Prince will be heading home with his breeders. His "purchaser" failed to establish credit with Keeneland.....

http://auctions.bloodhorse.com/article/48844.htm

QHEventr

Jan. 17, 2009, 05:22 PM

Looks like we noticed that at the same time!

TrueColours

Jan. 17, 2009, 07:43 PM

And an article and picture on the Splash of Vanilla filly as well:

http://news.bloodhorse.com/article/48845.htm?id=48845&source=rss

Pretty pretty filly - hopefully they will give her every chance to be a nice race horse as well ... :) ... and it sounds like with who has bought her, they have every intention of doing so! :)

RedMare01

Jan. 17, 2009, 10:37 PM

Hey, I know that doctor, his office is about 10 minutes from my house. Small world.

She is a very pretty filly and hopefully she does well at whatever her future career may be.

Caitlin

Equilibrium

Jan. 18, 2009, 01:18 AM

TrueColours

Jan. 18, 2009, 07:46 AM

I will be the first to admit, I adore the colored TB's. They are absolutely gorgeous and stand out in a crowd.

But I have to go with Laurierace on this one. The dam of the Palomino filly is absolute crap as far as racing goes. Anything of normal color out of that dam on this side of the pond would have brought you -0- no bid. And great, fair dues, I hope she wins some races, it's just a bit hard to stomach when racing for the most part on this side of the pond is in a very serious situation along with the horses.

Fair enough, but is the pendulum swinging over to what gives people real pleasure in owning?

Is a part of owning and racing a filly like this one the fact that she will create a buzz at the track she runs at, friends can exclaim about how pretty she is, and THAT is an important factor in buying, training and owning her and if she wins enough to pay her way (she doesnt have to emerge as the next superstar) THAT will be enough? And then perhaps they can breed "up" through the next generation and get a decent race horse from that cross?

I have honestly given up trying to pyscho analyze why people purchase what they do...

We have a world class artist in our area that has a beautiful home with gorgeous paddocks out front , lining the driveway leading up to his home. He wanted the most beautiful horses he could find in those paddocks so as guests drove up the driveway they would exclaim about how beautiful those horses were. He was very specific about what he wanted - colour wise, markings wise, etc and he wanted to create a very specific artistic impression for his guests which he did accomplish. Most people would think he was off the wall crazy but you know what? It was his money, his decision and his horses and they gave him ultimate pleasure by just "being there" and he quite frankly had enough money to do whatever "different" thing he wanted to do ...

I have one client now that wants to create the first "coloured" Kentucky Derby winner and he wants it in palomino with a lot of white markings. Probably 99.9% of the population will say he is totally crazy but you know what - its his dream, his money (and he certainly has enough of it!) and he will put the very best trainers towards this goal and you know what? He just might succeed at some point down the road and if not, he is going to have a lot of fun trying to get there and will revel in the publicity surrounding this dream

And you know something else? Maybe this is exactly the kind of impetus the racing industry needs to keep it viable and keep "Joe Public" interested in what is going on there, because it sure isnt happening with the 99.99999% of the bay and chestnut horses running out there right now ... Joe Public is leaving the track in droves, if it wasnt for the gaming revenues coming in, most of the tracks right across North America would be shut down for good and then there will be NOWHERE for the horses to run - whether they are bay, chestnut or palomino's ...

So- a pretty palomino with a wealthy owner that is after some fun and the ensuing publicity can only help an industry that is being slowly and methodically decimated through both apathy and an ailing economy and heck - if thats what it takes to get people coming back to the track - because they read about this pretty palomino racing today - then I am all for it to be perfectly honest ...

Good luck to her new owner and I hope we see more and more of them hitting the tracks in the years to come ... :)

Laurierace

Jan. 18, 2009, 09:57 AM

USAGPJumper

Jan. 18, 2009, 10:16 AM

All this attention makes me think this is a horse that will always be valued and well taken-care of for his unusual colour, regardless of its potential in racing or breeding. A fortunate horse indeed.

TrueColours

Jan. 18, 2009, 10:21 AM

The whole rest of the horse world is geared towards beauty and color, they are called horse shows. The last thing we need in racing is an emphasis on color or anything else that is open to subjectivity. The way it stands right now I can have a horse that looks more like an aardvark but if he gets to the wire first, he wins. I would hate to see anything change that basic premise.

I am going to respectfully disagree, *to a degree* ... ;)

In horse shows, the hunter that puts in the round with the most correct jump and the correct hunter type movement, with the flowing hunter type pace, is going to win that class. BUT ... more and more people want all of those attributes, plus they now want to get pickier and have a neat colour, or flashy markings or a specific colour to go along with that. Look how many people specifically look for "a grey horse with 4 stockings and a blaze" or "jet black" or yes - even palomino's and buckskin's now ... :)

None of those will make the horse jump better or have better movement, but if the client wants that on top of looking for the best youngster for the job at hand - great - everyone is happy ...

The biggest problem with these palomino's and buckskin's is that from the very beginning - from when Milkie was "deemed too valuable to race and possibly get hurt" very few or none of these horses have ever had the chance to do ANYTHING at all. They have been born and then go directly into breeding programs and thats it. Heck - look at the current state of the coloured TB market - what are the oldest ones that you can actually find in the show ring? Try 5-7 years of age and those you can count on one hand and thats it. Look at some of the coloured TB breeding stallions out there. 9 and 10 years of age and never even broke, let alone sat or, shown or raced.

So - its not as if a whack of these coloured TB's have gone to the race track and fallen flat on their collective faces because they have no talent and no ability and no desire to run. NO ONE up to now has even bothered TRYING to see if they CAN run at all. So ... you look at their pedigrees and say "Yeah right! :eek: There is NOTHING in their pedigrees at all for 5 generations to even remotely suggest they have the talent to run." Again - not through trying and failing, but simply because for 5 generations, most of them werent even broke, let alone did they do anything except eat and pump out baby after baby ... and 99% of those ended up in show homes or back to the breeding shed once again ...

So - this is uncharted territory and they are all starting with a virtual clean slate and the ones that are at the track now in training seem like they will be given every chance to succeed through proper training and connections

In a few years time, when a bunch of them have tried and failed, your comments will hold some merit and will have some validity but in these early days, I for one am very glad that FINALLY they are being given the chance to show the world that they very well may have the talent to run and win some races, no matter what colour they may be ... :)

rcloisonne

Jan. 18, 2009, 10:38 AM

In a few years time, when a bunch of them have tried and failed, your comments will hold some merit and will have some validity but in these early days, I for one am very glad that FINALLY they are being given the chance to show the world that they very well may have the talent to run and win some races, no matter what colour they may be ... :)
Excellent point, TCF!

However, a filly this pretty and well conformed would have sold for more $$$ to a show horse home, IMO. I give the consignors a lot of credit going this route with her and wish the new owner the best of luck.

Pronzini

Jan. 18, 2009, 10:43 AM

Fair enough, but is the pendulum swinging over to what gives people real pleasure in owning?

Is a part of owning and racing a filly like this one the fact that she will create a buzz at the track she runs at, friends can exclaim about how pretty she is, and THAT is an important factor in buying, training and owning her and if she wins enough to pay her way (she doesnt have to emerge as the next superstar) THAT will be enough? And then perhaps they can breed "up" through the next generation and get a decent race horse from that cross?

You're entitled to your opinion since you help create these kind of horses but color me skeptical. The only reason right now that color TBs get decent money at Keeneland is that they are still a novelty and it seems you can always find a fringe of people to invest in novelties. But other than a very small handful (Candy Spots anyone?), there hasn't been a single one that most people would actually want to own as a racehorse. I watched the first wave of white horses come in last by a football field at maiden 25 and 32 in Southern California and they were in no danger of being claimed. Are these really horses that people want to spend the $30K-$40K a year it takes to keep in training at one of the destination tracks? Will it really be enough for most owners in racing to say "Can't run a lick but he sure is pretty?"

My guess is no. Also, I look at the breeding that creates these colors and it's difficult to imagine a racehorse coming out of that. Finally I can't help but think of the plain ones coming out of programs like this because they probably have no value whatsoever.

My 2 cents as someone who has paid a bill or two in the past and you couldn't give me a palomino to campaign at the track based on past performance to date.

TrueColours

Jan. 18, 2009, 11:08 AM

Pronzini - of course we are all entitled to our opinions and everyone will not all agree with each others viewpoints and/or opinions, but I do take exception to this comment:

But other than a very small handful (Candy Spots anyone?), there hasn't been a single one that most people would actually want to own as a racehorse.

TOTALLY and completely disagree ...

What about:

The lines of Halo, Explodent, Vice Regent, Northern Dancer, Marquetry and Naevus? All "coloured" sabino producing TB's and *some* of their offspring sure looked like they could run "a bit", didnt they, regardless of their funky colouring???

Take a look at this section I created on my website and you can click on the various links at the bottom to see some wildly coloured, wildly marked TB's that yes - even won a few races or a LOT of races as well ;)

http://www.angelfire.com/on3/TrueColoursFarm/Cool_and_Unusual_Thoroughbreds.html

Showmethemoolah, Contrary Rose, Dance Spot, Halo Dawn, Looks Expensive, My Darling One, Paint Ballado, etc - all had more colour than Candy Spots did and I would have any of them as race horses, in a heartbeat ...

Being wild looking and being unique, certainly didnt mean that they had no talent or didnt belong on a race track. FAR from it ...

No dilutes in that group simply because - as mentioned - its brand new, early territory for them out there

Give them time. You will start seeing more and more of them hitting the tracks in the next few years and hopefully a nice percentage of them can be successful race horses and make people want to take a chance on something that is pretty and unusual AND has some talent as well :)

Pronzini

Jan. 18, 2009, 12:48 PM

Pronzini - of course we are all entitled to our opinions and everyone will not all agree with each others viewpoints and/or opinions, but I do take exception to this comment:

TOTALLY and completely disagree ...

What about:

The lines of Halo, Explodent, Vice Regent, Northern Dancer, Marquetry and Naevus? All "coloured" sabino producing TB's and *some* of their offspring sure looked like they could run "a bit", didnt they, regardless of their funky colouring???

Nice dodge. We started this discussion with palominos not with high white--which has been part of the TB genome and in some quality animals since the beginning of time. Color breeders had nothing to do with The Minstrel bringing $200,000 as a yearling and no one bought him because he had a lot of white on him or that he was "pretty". He was an athlete and proved it on the track.

Get back to me when the palominos start running or one is born that doesn't need its color to market it. Its damned expensive to keep a racehorse in training and real talent is rare--believe me a plain bay that pays its way and holds value is a beautiful horse to most owners I know. I haven't detected any great interest in the novelty colors in the racing trenches or anywhere except for places like here.

More power and great luck to you. Personally I have found it tough enough to do this game conventionally. I have no idea why someone would want to make it tougher--which of course is what you are doing when you are racing horses with obscure pedigrees that produce color. I suspect after several months of losing -- and badly--the owners of the white horses I alluded to may have gotten a little battered financially. I've done both show and racing. I may want my show horse to be pretty but I need my racehorse to be fast and I doubt I'm alone.

LaurieB

Jan. 18, 2009, 01:32 PM

Get back to me when the palominos start running or one is born that doesn't need its color to market it. Its damned expensive to keep a racehorse in training and real talent is rare--believe me a plain bay that pays its way and holds value is a beautiful horse to most owners I know. I haven't detected any great interest in the novelty colors in the racing trenches or anywhere except for places like here.

More power and great luck to you. Personally I have found it tough enough to do this game conventionally. I have no idea why someone would want to make it tougher--which of course is what you are doing when you are racing horses with obscure pedigrees that produce color. I suspect after several months of losing -- and badly--the owners of the white horses I alluded to may have gotten a little battered financially. I've done both show and racing. I may want my show horse to be pretty but I need my racehorse to be fast and I doubt I'm alone.

I want my racehorses to be fast, too. I confess to having bought horses at auction that, until ten minutes later when the dust settles and the ticket is signed and I've gone back to the barn to have a look at them, I didn't even know what color they were.

However...if someone has the resources and the spare money in this economy to choose to race a horse that's pretty as well as hopefully functional, more power to him. I got into horse racing to have fun--as I suspect many other people did as well. If having a palomino racehorse, no matter how dudious her credentials may appear, is fun for her new owner then he'll probably get plenty of enjoyment out of her achievements whether other racehorse owners find them noteworthy or not.

TrueColours

Jan. 18, 2009, 02:08 PM

Nice dodge.

Pronzini - WHO is dodging???

YOU took this discussion veering out into left field by bringing up Candy Spots and coloured TB's:

The only reason right now that color TBs get decent money at Keeneland is that they are still a novelty and it seems you can always find a fringe of people to invest in novelties. But other than a very small handful (Candy Spots anyone?), there hasn't been a single one that most people would actually want to own as a racehorse.

who the last time I checked was not a palomino or a dilute of any description ... and I simply pointed out the "coloured" TB's that have been rather successful as race horses ...

Pronzini - the sport needs new money, new people, a new direction to instill some of the glamour, fun and prestige of being a part of horse racing. It sure as Hell isnt being too successful right now and for every huge player leaving the game, there isnt even one small "dreamer" getting into it to stop the bleeding and the exodus out of the horse racing sport in mass numbers.

So - in my ever so humble opinion ;) if that then means that some people get into the sport to have fun and to try and be successful with a horse that perhaps doesnt fit the traditional mold - so be it. All the best to them. If that then means they and their family and friends come to the track and have lunch and buy a bunch of drinks to watch their pretty palomino run - great. That exactly what this sport needs to get back on track and will keep the trainers, excercise riders and jockeys employed

And what is so wrong with that???

If having a palomino racehorse, no matter how dudious her credentials may appear, is fun for her new owner then he'll probably get plenty of enjoyment out of her achievements whether other racehorse owners find them noteworthy or not.

Exactly. :)

And I am hoping that her credentials are less "dubious" rather than simply "unproven" and "untested" ... ;) ... but of course only time will tell on this one and on the Beyond Blonde palomino colt that is in FL training now and should be running by March / April ...

Dinah-do

Jan. 18, 2009, 05:51 PM

Where is the fun in having a pretty horse that runs up the track? It is like having a pretty horse with a dirty stop. $15,000.00 for a yearling filly, at a sale, palomino or other wise as a hunter prospect? Not my cheque book. I do not care for palomino hunters. Way to hard to keep clean and just looks too western to me.

TrueColours

Jan. 18, 2009, 07:07 PM

Where is the fun in having a pretty horse that runs up the track?

Geez Louise ... the poor filly isnt even broke yet, let alone has she started training, let alone has she RACED, and already she is "running up the track" ... :lol: :rolleyes: :lol:

How about we give her another few months or a year before we doom her to finishing last before she has even started her career ... ;)

Personally speaking, I'd rather be debating the merits in a few years time as to whether the Glitter Please line is known to throw better race horses than the Milkie line ... ;)

Give these bloodlines a fair chance to prove or disprove their ability and talent, just like you would any other 2 year old, if it was a bay or a chestnut ...

amberacing

Jan. 18, 2009, 07:24 PM

I have to jump in on this firstly because I personally know Tom Bentley and have had his palomino colt (who's a 4 y.o. currently and looking for a race this summer) in training on and off. Tom has a very specific idea and that is to create a palomino race horse. He is NOT breeding ton's and ton's of crap creating the surplus of race horses you see today. He has a very specific mission with only one or two foals each year. ALWAYS with the horse's best interest in mind. What's the problem with this?

Since there are so many here criticizing this fillys pedigree, saying it's not "racing" pedigree, I have to ask....how do you think there ever became a such thing as "racing" pedigree? It was and is because of breeders who chose their desired traits to breed into the "modern thoroughbred", who just happens to have become a GLASS HORSE for the most part. There are many great race horses who had unraced Dams or Dams who were NOT good race horses. There are also extremely well bred horses who can't run a lick.

So, my point is, why criticize this breeding operation?

Secondly, I have to say that I have galloped many Stake winners for big operations and I galloped Limehouse (ran 4th in the KY Derby) for 9 months. I can personally say that the palomino TB colt that I have had in training is the caliber of some of the stake horses I have ridden. He has not run simply because he has not been in consistent training and has been given time to mature physically.

Finally, don't you think your time would be better spent complaining about the racing tactics of some TB trainers? Those who have a hundred or more horses in their barn and a waiting list just as long? Oh, hell...break one down and empty the stall...I've been there and seen it too often, and am thankful that these Pally owners care more about their horses more than that.

Oh, and this was not a YEARLING filly, she is a two year old with Three months training, ($3,000+ that the new owner won't have to spend!)

aurum

Jan. 19, 2009, 01:37 AM

Life has often proven that "outsiders" can run and can win, so keep cool and wait.

Equinoxfox

Jan. 19, 2009, 01:31 PM

Since I followed the entire sale up until Saturday. I had to miss it . I had to travel to Northern, Maryland. To go and try a horse.
So,,,, did anyone YOU TUBE the auction of the filly ? I know she sold but wondered if it is posted and what you guys think of her chances at racing .
Any news ?

futurewin

Jan. 19, 2009, 01:37 PM

Splash of Vanilla went for 14k and was sold to Dr. Naveed Chowan

Beezer

Jan. 19, 2009, 03:05 PM

Pronzini - the sport needs new money, new people, a new direction to instill some of the glamour, fun and prestige of being a part of horse racing. It sure as Hell isnt being too successful right now and for every huge player leaving the game, there isnt even one small "dreamer" getting into it to stop the bleeding and the exodus out of the horse racing sport in mass numbers.

And none of that happened with this filly, so I'm not sure what your point is. She was bought by someone who has been in racing for quite some time, someone who wanted her because she's a novelty (which is what his agent who signed the ticket said).

Am I honestly reading your previous posts correctly? You acknowlege that color TB breeders just kept breeding and breeding pretty-colored horses, based on their color alone, with no performance record to show whether all that breeding was producing athletes? Wow.

I have to jump in on this firstly because I personally know Tom Bentley and have had his palomino colt (who's a 4 y.o. currently and looking for a race this summer) in training on and off. Tom has a very specific idea and that is to create a palomino race horse. He is NOT breeding ton's and ton's of crap creating the surplus of race horses you see today. He has a very specific mission with only one or two foals each year. ALWAYS with the horse's best interest in mind. What's the problem with this?

If that's his goal, then he needs to start with better mares (like the other two he sold at Keeneland, which went for fractions of this filly's price, despite being much, much better bred -- complete with black type -- and having won races -- making them good prospects for a regional broodmare band, yes? ;) ). Then he crosses them with one of the cremello or palomino TB stallions out there and voila, he has much better odds of producing a fancy-colored racehorse.

And if he wants to produce only palomino TBs, then he needs to start with a well-bred chestnut mare with a race record and cross her with one of the aforementioned cremello or palomino TB studs.

Surely, if he has been breeding wanna-be TB racehorses for any length of time, he knows by now that the mare's family is where the value comes from. Color genetics can be tricker, but they can be understood on a rudimentary level fairly easily.

As for your "tons and tons of crap" comment, breeders on every.single.level of every.single.horse.breed are rethinking their breeding plans. Just because a horse is a pretty color does NOT make it immune to the realities of the real world. Anyone who thinks that needs to go to some killer sales. Many a pretty-colored horse has a come to a bad end.

TrueColours

Jan. 19, 2009, 07:55 PM

Am I honestly reading your previous posts correctly? You acknowlege that color TB breeders just kept breeding and breeding pretty-colored horses, based on their color alone, with no performance record to show whether all that breeding was producing athletes? Wow.

Uhhh ... not quite ... :rolleyes: ... but I will acknowledge that back in the "Milkie" days in the 60's, 70's and 80's most if not ALL of those coloured TB's produced never saw a saddle in their lives and went straight into breeding sheds ...

Today - yeah - you still do have some breeders with 8 and 10 year old "coloured" stallions that have never been backed, never been sat on, let alone sent to any registry for approval and judging / scoring, nor have they been shown so yes - your comments above are not exactly out in "left field" either ... ;)

That why my "coloured" stallion DID go through his approvals, DID get shown and DID achieve his performance accredation. Aurum in Germany is doing the same with her "coloured" stallions, the client in Scotland that bought my stallion and my homebred colt is doing the same - approvals, fulfilling performance criteria, show career - the same as any WB stallion owner would do and I hope in time with those of us that DO go the proper route with our stallions will continue to rise above those who choose NOT to do so and simply stick their stallions in the breeding shed and thats it ...

breeders on every.single.level of every.single.horse.breed are rethinking their breeding plans.

And on this comment - I beg to differ ... I am not re-thinking anything on any level. Yes - I have sold key components in my breeding program but they are also forming an integral part in it going forward as well, as I head into previously unknown territory for me, which is a lot of ET breeding, frozen semen storage and sales for the stallions I have now as well as some new ones from Europe, plus some pretty darned exciting acquisitions and opportunities looming on the horizon as well ... ;)

Beezer

Jan. 19, 2009, 08:00 PM

TC, we're not talking warmbloods; last I checked, no one was racing them. None of the things you describe -- ETs, AI or whatever -- can be done with TBs bred for racing.

And the very fact that you have sold your horses means you've changed your breeding plans. ;) Because you have chosen to stockpile the genetic material simply gives you the option of waiting until the sporthorse market makes a comeback. But again, this filly is supposedly destined for the racetrack, so it's what her relations have done -- or not, as the case may be -- on the track is what's being discussed.

amberacing

Jan. 20, 2009, 04:25 PM

"tons and tons of crap" refers to the breeders who have a breeding operation of for example, 50 or more horses sitting in their back yard. We all know breeders like this, where there are too many horses to even put in training, and the mentality all to often becomes something like, well I have X amount of dollars in grain, hay, etc. therefore I must get X amount of dollars for the sale of this horse.

As for him using better mares, well.. to be honest, what's wrong with improving his mare (where the color is coming from in this example) by breeding her to a stallion who compliments her? The TB world has plenty of stallions to choose from, but breeding to a commercial stallion can be financially impossible for a small breeder.

This is for the most part a fledgeling operation, that has to start somewhere. The hopes obviously are to have a better conformed, better bred horse with each generation.

TrueColours

Jan. 20, 2009, 06:45 PM

And the very fact that you have sold your horses means you've changed your breeding plans. Because you have chosen to stockpile the genetic material simply gives you the option of waiting until the sporthorse market makes a comeback

Wow. You couldnt be more wrong. Why would you make ANY assumptions on this??? And I dont have to wait for anything to be very honest ...

Beezer - obviously you missed this part of my post and didnt pick up on it either:

plus some pretty darned exciting acquisitions and opportunities looming on the horizon as well ...

TB acquisitions. Live Cover. Breed them together and you get even MORE full Jockey Club TB's ... ;)

and I am WELL aware of this as well ... my foray into ET breeding is a sideline - something Ive wanted to try and something I have a strong market for

None of the things you describe -- ETs, AI or whatever -- can be done with TBs bred for racing.

Your comment of:

with no performance record to show whether all that breeding was producing athletes? Wow.

prompted me to explain that my stallion and Aurum's stallion (both TB's BTW ...) have gone through approval processes AND have shown or will be showing - they dont just sit in the back 40 and pump their semen into any mare with a uterus to produce foals "with pretty colours" ...

Now is it all clear? ;)

Calamber

Jan. 20, 2009, 06:54 PM

I have to wholeheartedly agree with you Beezer. Since when did breeding for color in the racehorse world have any merit to it at all. For that matter, same goes for any horse. It is simple fadishness, breeding for performance, soundess of mind, wind and limb is the key. Not "I want to go down in history as the man who ran the yellowest horse.":lol: You do have to be kidding right? Did he really say his goal is to have a palomino racehorse? Not the fastest and soundest, or longest lasting family but one of color. All I have to say is he has some really lofty goals and right up the alley with what racing really needs......:confused: I guess PT Barnum was right. geez... Well, one thing for sure, the kill buyers don't give a hoot what color that slow or broken down racehorse is when they come through the ring.

eventer4eva

Jan. 20, 2009, 09:05 PM

ok ok so I just came back to this forum and saw the great amount of controversy swirling regarding breeding for color...

so yes I understand that there is a problem with unwanted horses...

but I also don't think that these few breeders who might breed a handful of horses a year are who we should be attacking. even if these "color" breeders aren't breeding first and foremost for racing performance above all else, I can say with certainty that the palomino filly who is the starter of this whole conversation was a lovely individual, and nicer physically than many other 2yo fillies I saw at the sale.

I agree with the earlier poster who noted that these fancily colored horses will have a better shot of finding a happy career even if they don't make it on the racetrack... I personally would be inclined to be pretty excited about a colored TB over a "plain" colored one. (no, I don't want to fight about it, I'm just saying that as a potential end user of an OTTB, I would look at color and appearance... ) I see a lot of backyard breeders breeding animals for no apparent reason whatsoever... at least color breeders have some goal in mind, maybe you just don't agree with it... at least there is a goal aside from "that horse has testicles and that one has a uterus. lets see what happens..."

so if someone wants to purchase a lovely palomino filly and try and make her a racehorse.... more power to him!!!! I for one will be watching for her to start morning workouts!

TrueColours

Jan. 21, 2009, 06:32 AM

Since when did breeding for color in the racehorse world have any merit to it at all. For that matter, same goes for any horse.

You are respectfully missing the point in a BIG way ...

NO ONE is saying breed a piece of crap and make it a pretty colour and prehaps it can win some races or win some hunter classes. NO ONE is saying that colour is the first and most important criteria either

Some of us prefer producing that stellar hunter that can win in the best company - against the sea of bays and chestnuts - and we prefer to do it with a palomino or a buckskin :)

The same goes for race horses. The challenge is to produce a winning race horse that also happens to come in a colour different from anything else out there

So shoot us - we want to be different and we have different challenges we are undertaking and we are doing it with nice, athletic stock that didnt happen to have a race background so people are raising their eyebrows ...

And the last time I checked, ALL of the well bred horses werent successful on the track either ... and to be perfectly honest, I'd rather have a "lesser" horse with an "unknown" pedigree with a trainer that is taking a hands on, personal approach to him than a fabulously bred one in a stable of 100+ horses, where a more throw away approach is taken, and they are just a name or a number or that "yell'r horse" ...

I firmly believe my buckskin & white Faux Finish mare could have been one helluva race horse, but as much as I wanted to try going that route with her, I opted to make her into a show horse instead. It doesnt means she COULDNT have run and run very very well - it simply means that *I* chose a different career path for her

THATS the difference between simply breeding for colour and screw the quality part of the equation and breeding a quality ***COLOURED*** athlete that could successfully head in several different directions and be a winner in all of them ...

I, too, wish Dr Chowhan all the success in the world with this filly and it will be fun watching from the sidelines to see what she can do ... :) .. and as eventer4eva has said - like it or not, and agree with it or not - if 2 horses were lined up looking for new homes because they werent a success at the track and all things being equal - height, conformation and movement wise, the palomino is going to stand a far better chance of being sold quicker and for more money than the plain bay one would be

farmgirl88

Jan. 21, 2009, 07:12 AM

dare to be different. if someone wants to breed for color- so be it. let them do it. To each their own. I personally dont have aproblem with it and i have seen faux finish and WHEW! Would i like to have that horse in my barn!!

No one is saying these horses couldnt run at the track- they very well could do that just as any other thoroughbred. Breeding for color could also give them new options off the track in terms of finding homes. There are plenty of people looking for a flashier, more "vibrant" looking horse to add to their broodmare, breeding, or show string- or even as a backyard horse.

Since when did anyone say colored breeders where not breeding for soundness and conformation? Ive seen plenty photos and all are wonderful examples, if not better examples, than what you see at many thoroughbred sales..with a lot more bone and substance to them, instead of toothpicks for legs.

Theres a lot more in the mind of breeders than just breeding for color to say that they did it. Claiming that of a breeder, without actually seeing or knowing of the stock- is just silly and insulting.

While im sure there are breeders out there who think they're just going to make a quick buck and do it the cheap way- not all think that way and many believe in raising a flashy individual who has high hopes of finding a career after the track and be sound and conformationally correct at the same time

farmgirl88

Jan. 21, 2009, 07:22 AM

I do not care for palomino hunters. Way to hard to keep clean and just looks too western to me.

Thats just silly. I agree wtih you on the cleanliness part- thats why i dont own a grey and never will...but to say its to western? HA! Maybe if it looked western and cow-horsie like a QH, then i'd agree with you...but to say a color represents a discipline is ludacris.

Its like saying a chestnut warmblood in the hunter or Eq ring that ha sa big white blaze and 4 knee high stockings and a belly splotch looks too western because it looks like it belongs in the paint horse rings. You're being senile. dont kid yourself.

farmgirl88

Jan. 21, 2009, 07:34 AM

hitchinmygetalong

Jan. 21, 2009, 08:24 AM

The filly sold better than I expected. I thought she would sell poorly because she is out of an unraced mare who is by an unraced stallion. If she had been anything other than a "unique" color, she would have left the ring for very little money. That doesn't make the fact that she sold "because she's palomino" any more palatable.

This is a point that really bothers me. Color should be the LAST thing anyone considers when buying or breeding a horse. Performance is the key. Performance is the end product of breeding for correctness and a sound mind.

I hope the filly does well as a RACEHORSE for her new owner. I hope she earns the right to be bred to produce sound, sane, winning racehorses. But if she doesn't work out on the track, then please don't put her into a racehorse breeding program "just because she's palomino." There are far too many dud mares being bred as it is.

Laurierace

Jan. 21, 2009, 09:57 AM

This is the problem i sometimes have with racing. Breeding shouldnt just be about who gets to the wire first. Your aardvark of a horse obviously isnt the best example of the breed, but he may get to the wire first, but how in God's name are you going to keep a horse that looks like an aardvark sound?

breeding should be about looks. It should be about conformation. Breeding for conformation and then pedigree in terms of racing success should be where its at. soundness comes from great conformation and sound legs. Not something thats build like a car from many different cars....but its the fastest and thats all we care about.

You;d think breeders would want to produce something that has some sort of stamina in terms of soundness instead of something thats just going to get the job done and win some cash, even if its until the horse has some serious injury because of it.

I personally am discussing racing not breeding. I would assume the breeders didn't set out to create an aardvark looking horse, but my job is to train what is sent to me. If I get that horse to the wire first, I win. Breeding him is a whole nother ball of wax.

LaurieB

Jan. 21, 2009, 10:15 AM

The filly sold better than I expected. I thought she would sell poorly because she is out of an unraced mare who is by an unraced stallion. If she had been anything other than a "unique" color, she would have left the ring for very little money. That doesn't make the fact that she sold "because she's palomino" any more palatable.

This is a point that really bothers me. Color should be the LAST thing anyone considers when buying or breeding a horse. Performance is the key. Performance is the end product of breeding for correctness and a sound mind.

There are people who spend thousands of dollars on art that does nothing more than hang on their walls. They buy it because they enjoy looking at it. Some people have that much excess money to spend and they like to look at pretty things. And if one of those people wants to buy a "pretty" racehorse and enjoy looking at it, I really don't understand why that should be a problem for anyone else.

Would the filly have been my choice from the sale if I had 14K to spend? No, because I have bills to pay. :lol: I would have chosen a filly that more closely fit *my* ideal of a racehorse. But I can hardly fault the buyer just because his ideal differed from mine.

NancyM

Jan. 21, 2009, 10:22 AM

Las Olas

Jan. 21, 2009, 11:01 AM

Well, WAY more money that I would have paid for the animal, based on what the pedigree page looked like. Her conformation would have had to be STUNNING to raise the sale price a few thousand dollars over knockdown price, without somebody bidding on the colour, if this was a legitimate bid and a real buyer. (Sorry, I tend to be a bit of a skeptic when stuff like this happens- rigged bidding happens). Anybody know this buyer?.

Yes, Nancy,

I know the buyer and he is legit. As for anyone wanting to breed racehorses for color. Hey, they're entitled, and good luck to them. As far as I'm concerned, it would make the field 'softer' for my plain bays! :)

And, I'll touch on the subject of breeding for color in racehorses. Whether you agree with it or not, racing, is a sport of breeding for one variable. The point is to cross the wire first. PERIOD. I'm not saying that is right, and I do try to breed correct horses, with sane minds, but these are hybrid animals. I've bred correct to correct and gotten crooked, and I've bred less than stellar conformation and ended up with nice individuals. The moment you try to focus on breeding for another variable in a hybrid animal, is the point at which your focus variable (speed) is compromised (to some extent). It costs a lot of money to keep a horse in training that was bred for something other than speed. Again, people are entitled to breed what they want, but I think you will find the market lacking (once the novelty of the color wears off). These horses will really have to step up and do something to prove their worth.

Personally, I would not have bred that palamino mare to that low grade stud to try to get a racehorse. I did not see that filly in person, but from the photos someone posted, she looked like a train wreck (which is subjective, of course). I would've bred her to a much nicer stallion. I think Patchen Wilkes is on the right track. He took his white mare and bred to one of the best, and most undervalued, racehorse stallions out there. That white colt now has a decent shot. If he can get some BT, then he's 'made' his pedigree.

SteeleRdr

May. 6, 2009, 04:25 PM

Referenced above was Splash of Vanilla-

Appears she's entered in the FT Mid-Atlantic Two year olds in training sale. I was looking through the catalog and saw her listed.

Equinoxfox

May. 6, 2009, 08:55 PM

So does that mean that she is not panning out to be what the buyers wanted from her ? OR do they think they can make some quick revenue off of her because she is started training . What do you guys think the reason could be? I would be interested to know what some of the older more veteran race professionals have to say . Thanks

Acertainsmile

May. 6, 2009, 09:09 PM

Could be a number of things..economics could play a big part in their putting her in the sale, as we know it takes lots of cash to put one in training.

Jessi P

May. 7, 2009, 06:49 AM

Lots of folks "pinhook" young horses - that means buying as a weanling and re- selling as a yearling, or buying a yearling and selling it as a 2 yo in training, you get the idea. Look at the Derby winner - bought for $9,500 as a yearling and then sold (albeit not thru public auction) at the end of his 2 yo season for $400k.

hitchinmygetalong

May. 7, 2009, 11:44 AM

Referenced above was Splash of Vanilla-

Appears she's entered in the FT Mid-Atlantic Two year olds in training sale. I was looking through the catalog and saw her listed.

And her page (http://www.fasigtipton.com/catalogs/2009/0518/391.pdf) hasn't improved much since the yearling sales.:no:

ShadyBug

May. 26, 2009, 01:26 PM

My boyfriend rides her every morning, she currently in Bernie Flints barn. She is absolutely STUNNING...but she does have an attitude. She may have a shot as a racehorse....

KBEquine

May. 26, 2009, 02:30 PM

Keep us posted - I'd like to keep track of her!

doublete

May. 27, 2009, 12:57 PM

Shadybug: I saw the pics on his facebook page of the filly..

Gray boy says hi, and he's growing up... We've been a week of total professionalism, galloping along with my filly at a good clip, doing really well. He's been perfect for Eugene too.

Derby Lyn Farms

May. 29, 2009, 10:54 AM

Just wanted to say that the dam of Splash of Vanilla, Maid of Gold, is at my farm. I am not the breeder of the young filly. The pictures taken of the filly and dam do not do them justice. The mare is very tall and nicely put together. She would be just as stunning if she were a chestnut. I am very excited to add her to my broodmares. However, my intentions are for hunter foals and not race foals. But we will have to see how this filly does at the track.

hitchinmygetalong

Jun. 1, 2009, 09:00 AM

Well, looks like I may just have to eat my cynical words.

Splash of Vanilla just posted a bullet workout at Churchill, going three furlongs in 35.60. The kid has some speed.

KBEquine

Jun. 1, 2009, 03:42 PM

Thanks for letting us know - I can only imagine how thrilled Derby Lyn Farms is.

jengersnap

Jun. 2, 2009, 10:27 AM

Nice!

TrueColours

Jun. 7, 2009, 09:32 AM

Here's a current picture of her:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/saber07/3588841781/

I heard this as well:

Splash of Vanilla just posted a bullet workout at Churchill, going three furlongs in 35.60. The kid has some speed.

Apparently it was the fastest work of the day as well ... go Splash of Vanilla! :D

hitchinmygetalong

Jun. 7, 2009, 10:07 AM

TC, a "bullet" workout is the racing term for "fastest of the day." Term came from the clockers' reports, which would have a bullet before the fastest work at any given distance.

And before you get too excited, I've seen a lot of horses that can breeze a bullet at three furlongs, but can't quite carry it to four. Hope this filly continues to train well for the owners. It seems they are taking her nice and slow --- no rush. Good for them and the trainers.

KBEquine

Jun. 7, 2009, 11:22 AM

Edited to say : Oops. I was wrong.

Never mind . . .

vineyridge

Jun. 7, 2009, 11:39 AM

Looks to me like the Palomino in the photo on Flickr is a pony horse. FWIW, Goldhaven isn't a relative of Splash of Vanilla for palomino color. He gets his from Lucky Two Bits, which is a totally different line from the Milkie line. Goldhaven was a 2005 model, but who knows if he raced. I guess he could be the pony horse in the photo.

Does anyone have Splash of Vanilla in a virtual stable?

If she could do a 3f bullet work, don't you just know the AQHA racing people would salivate to have her for breeding.

hitchinmygetalong

Jun. 7, 2009, 06:58 PM

Looks to me like the Palomino in the photo on Flickr is a pony horse.
<snip>
Does anyone have Splash of Vanilla in a virtual stable?

The photo is two horses galloping in company - probably stable mates.

Yes, I have the filly on Stable Mail.

vineyridge

Jun. 7, 2009, 08:12 PM

The photo is two horses galloping in company - probably stable mates.

Yes, I have the filly on Stable Mail.

I was looking at the length of the stirrups on the Palomino. They are so long it would be impossible to get in racing position if one were the rider. Do they gallop young race horses with such long stirrups? The other horse's rider is obviously able to get up and has.

Laurierace

Jun. 7, 2009, 09:23 PM

Yes they generally ride with long stirrups on babies. They put them up for a work and then put them back down when they gallop.

hitchinmygetalong

Aug. 11, 2009, 12:26 PM

(Posted June 1st)

Well, looks like I may just have to eat my cynical words.

Splash of Vanilla just posted a bullet workout at Churchill, going three furlongs in 35.60. The kid has some speed.

And no activity since. :no: Hope she is well and is just taking a break to let her bones catch up with the rest of her.

Vitriolic

Aug. 11, 2009, 11:36 PM

I was looking at the length of the stirrups on the Palomino. They are so long it would be impossible to get in racing position if one were the rider. Do they gallop young race horses with such long stirrups? The other horse's rider is obviously able to get up and has.

We have a saying at the track: "The longer you ride; the longer you ride." (Meaning if you crank your stirrups up on a baby, you'll be eating real estate.)

Equinoxfox

Aug. 12, 2009, 10:00 AM

Where did that filly go and what is going on with her ? There were so many high hopes for her performance. Any updates ????????:confused:

TrueColours

Dec. 7, 2009, 09:43 PM

I was checking out a few of the links on this thread and thought that I'd resurrect it ... :)

Any new info on this filly at all?

Thanks! :)

KBEquine

Dec. 9, 2009, 08:52 AM

I put her in my 'virtual stable' to watch for works and entry into races. I've heard nothing since this thread went quiet. I'm hoping someone closer to her location will know something - I was just mentioning her to someone earlier this week (and saying that I hadn't heard anything lately).

Derby Lyn Farms

Dec. 10, 2009, 10:06 AM

I was hoping to hear more about this filly also because I own her dam, Maid of Gold T B. I haven't heard a peep about her.

hitchinmygetalong

Dec. 11, 2009, 07:26 AM

If I had to guess (which obviously I must do), I would say she suffered an injury either in that workout or shortly thereafter and has been in rehab/layoff since. She's just coming three, and (Glimmerglass, correct me if I'm wrong) the Saint Ballado's tend to be later getting to the track than some. I wouldn't give up on her yet.

That said, the other scenario is that she has been deemed unable to carry her speed further than two or three furlongs and has been passed on to pursue other careers.

A personal aside: I don't see her ending up as a racing broodmare as her pedigree and lack of performance to this point certainly don't qualify her as RACING broodmare material.

TrueColours

Dec. 11, 2009, 07:39 AM

Hi, I have a mare that I have had for a few years, I would like to breed her. Not with anything special, just for a baby out of her. I'm looking for someone that would be willing to breed my horse with their stud/stallion. I don't want to spend money for a stud fee, like I said I just want a baby horse. As for the stud/stallion, It really doesn't matter what type of horse he is or color, although I would like a paint horse or something of that origin. Please email me back, and attach some pictures if you could. thank you.

yeah - that would be my guess as well ... and hopefully she will re-surface in the spring once she has matured some more and/or healed from whatever ailed her ...

A personal aside: I don't see her ending up as a racing broodmare as her pedigree and lack of performance to this point certainly don't qualify her as RACING broodmare material

Agreed. There is NOTHING in that pedigree top or bottom, to warrant putting her into a race breeding program ...

Its a fun exercise to see how she fares. No more and no less ... ;)

If I get a chance, I'll email her owner and see what the scoop is on her and let you know