WBFSH ranking

[andy.smaga]

The WBFSH has issued the rankings of the Top breeding stallions for the Olympic disciplines.

Show Jumpers:
1 Darco 8411,73
2 Quidam de Revel 6913,43
3 Argentinus 4854,72
4 Concorde 4447,00
5 Nabab de Reve 4359,33
6 Caretino 4177,43
7 Burggraaf 3924,95
8 Libero H 3781,95
9 Indoctro 3547,22
10 Papillon Rouge 3463

Check http://www.wbfsh.org/?GB/Rankings/Stallion%20Rankings%202008.aspx

[DownYonder]

Those are the jumper sire rankings.

Here are the dressage sire rankings:
1 Jazz 12397
2 Donnerhall 10294
3 Weltmeyer 8827
4 Rubinstein I 5146
5 Ferro 4897
6 Flemmingh 4660
7 Master 4638
8 Rohdiamant 4086
9 Ehrentusch 3895
10 Gribaldi 3746

And the Eventing sire rankings:
1 Cavalier Royale 1097
2 Heraldik xx 725
3 Cruising 559
4 Master MP 556
4 Highland King 513
6 Jumbo 406
7 Irish Enough 400
8 Brilliant Invador 359
9 Rock King 353
10 Pallas Digion 335

[andy.smaga]

Correct, I have stated Show Jumpers.
This is my main interest.

Looking at the horse ranking, there are close to 3000 horses ranked (jumpers)
I looked at about the 430 first individuals and at their studbook:

BWP 59 horses
DWP 7
HAN 21
HOLS 69
IHS 6
KWPN 89
OLDB 21
SBS 7
SF 72
SWB 12
WESTF 15
Zang 14
plus or minus 1 horse...

The rest is from marginal SB's.

[Drvmb1ggl3]

Those are the jumper sire rankings.

And the Eventing sire rankings:
1 Cavalier Royale 1097
2 Heraldik xx 725
3 Cruising 559
4 Master MP 556
4 Highland King 513
6 Jumbo 406
7 Irish Enough 400
8 Brilliant Invador 359
9 Rock King 353
10 Pallas Digion 335

That should read Master Imp, and if Heraldik gets an XX then so should the Master.

[meghan1963]

Contango was ranked 14th for dressage sires & that was WITHOUT Ravel's 1626 points. The pedigree of Ravel was listed as "unknown" until after the rankings were finalized.

[Drvmb1ggl3]

What's interesting is that at least 4 of the top ten eventing sires, Cavalier Royale, Cruising, Master Imp and Brilliant Invader, have also sired GP showjumpers. Perhaps even Jumbo too, I know he has sired Grade A jumpers.

[STF]

Contango was ranked 14th for dressage sires & that was WITHOUT Ravel's 1626 points. The pedigree of Ravel was listed as "unknown" until after the rankings were finalized.


The rankings are really only a joke, IMO

There are so many horses out there that are not correctly put into the sytem and because of that they cant get their sire points, etc. Point of fact - Ravel! :(

[Drvmb1ggl3]

The rankings are really only a joke, IMO

There are so many horses out there that are not correctly put into the sytem and because of that they cant get their sire points, etc. Point of fact - Ravel! :(

While you would have a point regarding the Eventing rankings (no surprise as eventers have been notoriously bad about that stuff in the past), when it comes to the Jumping ranking all the top 100 listed horses have recorded pedigrees, and only 4 of the top 100 in Dressage are unrecorded (most notably Ravel, who we know anyway). Which horses in the jumping and dressage rankings do you think are incorrectly recorded?

[Drvmb1ggl3]

Actually there is one unknown among the jumpers.

[andy.smaga]

Probably somebody on this forum knows the unknown, it's Cedric Laura Kraut mount;)

[DownYonder]

Contango was ranked 14th for dressage sires & that was WITHOUT Ravel's 1626 points. The pedigree of Ravel was listed as "unknown" until after the rankings were finalized.

So Contango SHOULD have been #6 on the dressage list - correct? 3172 points + Ravel's 1626 points = 4798 points, which would have put him between Ferro and Flemmingh.

Why was Ravel listed as unknown for so long? Were his bloodlines not being entered onto show entry forms? Is that how these things slip through the cracks?

[Equilibrium]

While you would have a point regarding the Eventing rankings (no surprise as eventers have been notoriously bad about that stuff in the past), when it comes to the Jumping ranking all the top 100 listed horses have recorded pedigrees, and only 4 of the top 100 in Dressage are unrecorded (most notably Ravel, who we know anyway). Which horses in the jumping and dressage rankings do you think are incorrectly recorded?


That's because most eventers are Irish, the Irish are notoriously bad about this stuff. Three things the Irish were not happy about when I moved here in 2001: microchips, passports, and especially blood-typing!

Terri

[Bayhawk]

Probably somebody on this forum knows the unknown, it's Cedric Laura Kraut mount;)


Cedric is a Holsteiner by Chambertin / Carolus I / Liostro

[STF]

While you would have a point regarding the Eventing rankings (no surprise as eventers have been notoriously bad about that stuff in the past), when it comes to the Jumping ranking all the top 100 listed horses have recorded pedigrees, and only 4 of the top 100 in Dressage are unrecorded (most notably Ravel, who we know anyway). Which horses in the jumping and dressage rankings do you think are incorrectly recorded?


There are many offspring that get lost during the changes. Mostly HJ people who think its cool to change the horses name, yet not check and make sure that the horses sire and such are correct with the USEF.
Im actually working with Ken Ball right now at the USEF on our sire rankings as they are fried and several of his offspring, even being correct are not having correct points allocated.
Not that his few offspring that he has here are going to put him at the top fo the list (dont really care anyway) but the point is, the system if far from correct. I will say the USEF is working very hard with people to get it right though. Ken Ball is a saint.

[Drvmb1ggl3]

There are many offspring that get lost during the changes. Mostly HJ people who think its cool to change the horses name, yet not check and make sure that the horses sire and such are correct with the USEF.
Im actually working with Ken Ball right now at the USEF on our sire rankings as they are fried and several of his offspring, even being correct are not having correct points allocated.
Not that his few offspring that he has here are going to put him at the top fo the list (dont really care anyway) but the point is, the system if far from correct. I will say the USEF is working very hard with people to get it right though. Ken Ball is a saint.

Here's the list (http://www.wbfsh.org/files/Jumping%20horses01.pdf) of top jumpers. Of the top 100 or 150, how many would you say are recorded incorrectly?

I have no doubt the USEF rankings are a bit of joke, but we're talking the WBFSH rankings here.

[Tiki]

STF, I think you're talking about the wrong list. Yes, the USEF list is a joke, not so the WBFSH list.

[meghan1963]

on the WBFSH list there are very few horses in showjumoing & dressage with missing data. It really was a shame about Ravel - since it was well documented that he is a son of Contango. FEI claimed they didnt have the data, yadayada. I emailed the WBFSH a few weeks ago & it was corrected but after the year end was posted. I also helped them with Cedric - I was able to track down his registration number. His number did not seem to be a Holsteiner registration number though - but maybe there was a typo on the form it was taken from. Cedric's stud book number is DE 304 049770598. Is that a Holsteiner number?

[karin@dutchbreeders@aol.com]

Congratulations on his impressive ranking and results to Contango and his "people", Meghan, MaryAlice, and all of the staff at ISF! Ravel is UNBELIEVABLE, and I am sure that his recent successes are only the beginning!
Fondly,
Karin

[tri]

In looking at the list, there are quite a few that are 9 years old and a handful that are 8 and 7 years old.

Are horses this age getting these points in the large grand prixs? Or what kind of events are horses this age getting points?