Students & Spurs...An Instructor Question

[Empressive Award]

For all of those who teach lessons, have working students, or clients that you train both the horse and rider...a question for you.

At what point in a rider's training do you allow them to wear spurs, if you were considering from both a very beginner type student all the way up to advanced riders, as well as considering the type of horse they are riding, green to schoolmaster.

Do you allow spurs at all? Why or why not?

I am an Advanced Beginner (?) rider in English (W/T/C, transitions, diagonals, all that jazz mastered..beginning work on collection and bending)and an Intermediate Barrels/Western Pleasure trained rider and I do not ride with spurs or a crop and never have. The barn I ride at allows students to wear/use both but all of the students are more advanced jumpers/ dressage riders than I am, but I should be in the same group with a month more of consistant riding.

In my opinion they should not be allowed to because they become reliant on the spurs and crop rather than learning to use their seat and leg and core to get what they want, although I understand at certain advanced levels spurs and whip may be required.

Would love some insight here. I am riding a LOVELY 4 yr old OTTB who is NOT a typical Tb and can be fast some days and slow on others, with us eventually getting the right rhythm. I have more trouble communicating with my left side of my body to him because it is my weaker side and I had wondered if there is a "rule" that considered a riders level with use of spurs...I'd rather not use them, but if a little tickle of reinforcent helps I'd be willing to try. I have soft hands and a pretty good seat, just a weak left leg (mostly knee issues)especially when working circles.

Thanks!

[eponacowgirl]

I will rarely let my riders ride in spurs. I'll hand them a dressage whip if they need another aid, and we only hold crops while jumping- and I prefer only then while jumping XC. My best students are solid W/T/C, stirrups and no stirrups, beginning lateral work, jumping 2'-2'6".

Its mostly student related, if I had stronger riders who could be effective with and without spurs, I might let them wear them. I was never given spurs when I was taking lessons, and now I switch between using and not using them with my greenies and my TB gelding. I do abide, for myself, that I'd rather have them and not need them, than need them and not have them.

[Whisper]

I don't use spurs, as I'd worry that I would accidentally make contact. :( Some horses don't need a whip at all, with others, I need to carry it but rarely use it or only tap my own boot, with others, I need to get after them sometimes. My instructors prefer to have me use the whip rather than compromise my position.

[Empressive Award]

If Im not pursing jumping anytime soon should I consider carrying a dressage whip instead of a crop, to have when I need it? I have both, I just dont use them...and when I have been forced to carry one it was only a tap tap to get attention, and then ended up being able to drop it for the rest of the ride and not needing it.

....better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it?

I really would prefer to not have to use either option. I'm just getting tired of struggling with a knee and leg that dont seem to be getting stronger. I alos doesnt help me that I have a long upper thigh and a short lower leg, which makes for weird leg position in a saddle thats not mine, but I have the same issue when I ride in my own saddle.

[Laurierace]

I think you are asking a few separate questions here. It seems to me as if you are implying that relying on carrying a whip or wearing spurs will keep you from strengthening your leg. If I understand that correctly, I disagree. Your leg doesn't get stronger by being able to get the desired result from your leg cues, it gets stronger by riding more often. Spurs or whips are reinforcements to your aids and if used appropriately they actually make it so you can use more subtle cues and get the same result ie you actually use less leg once the aid is adequately established.
I don't like beginners wearing spurs as there is a good chance they can jab the horse without meaning to rendering the spurs useless as a reinforcement. Carrying a crop or a dressage whip either one is a good idea on many school horses who tend to be laid back, quiet types. Often times just having a crop insures you won't ever have to use it.

[joharavhf]

I also think it depends on the horse they are riding.

Case in point - I have a 6 year old Welsh cob how had previously been used to drag farm equipment around in harness...He was used to slow work and didn't have much riding experience at all.

When I got him it was difficult for him to understand my aids. I taught him voice commands, but I also added the rolly spurs (NOT ROWELS - the ones with plastic so they glide along the side instead of jab) and a dressage whip.
If he didn't go forward after a squeeze I went all holy heck on him. I had a mini mom tantrum, LOL....That way he learned to "listen" for my leg and go somewhere with it!

Now with a firm GO button installed, I use my spurs and whip more as a reinforcement for lateral work and bending. He tends to REALLY bulge his rib cage on to me left leg - so he gets the spur a few times and then he doesn't do it anymore....

I think when used tactfully they are definitely great aids. This particular horse would have not learned the forward cue if not for spurs and whip. And I am CERTAINLY not the type of rider who wants to chase my horse with my cues. In my opinion that only creates a dull horse.

Just some thoughts.

[greysandbays]

I bring out the spurs the instant the student can CONTROL the leg but lacks the brute strength to make the somewhat sluggish horse believe the leg means business.

Any novice rider not totally devoid of talent that can write their name legibly can figure out how to control a spur pretty quickly. Riding is not (except in moments of crisis to make the difference between staying aboard and high-fiving a worm) an excersise in exerting maximum strength to get results.

There is no virtue in insisting on applying 50 lbs of leg to get the message across when 2 oz of well-controlled application of spur can do it quicker, better, and easier.

[LDavis104]

I also think it depends on the horse they are riding.

Case in point - I have a 6 year old Welsh cob how had previously been used to drag farm equipment around in harness...He was used to slow work and didn't have much riding experience at all.

When I got him it was difficult for him to understand my aids. I taught him voice commands, but I also added the rolly spurs (NOT ROWELS - the ones with plastic so they glide along the side instead of jab) and a dressage whip.
If he didn't go forward after a squeeze I went all holy heck on him. I had a mini mom tantrum, LOL....That way he learned to "listen" for my leg and go somewhere with it!

Now with a firm GO button installed, I use my spurs and whip more as a reinforcement for lateral work and bending. He tends to REALLY bulge his rib cage on to me left leg - so he gets the spur a few times and then he doesn't do it anymore....

I think when used tactfully they are definitely great aids. This particular horse would have not learned the forward cue if not for spurs and whip. And I am CERTAINLY not the type of rider who wants to chase my horse with my cues. In my opinion that only creates a dull horse.

Just some thoughts.

Slightly off topic here, but what you've done with this horse, as far as installing the GO button, is what I am doing with my 4 year old. Works well, and after one kick kick whip whip (after he doesn't listen to my polite squeezing) he gets it and will maintain his own trot pace the next time through that circle, around the corner, in the transition, etc. EXCEPT I'm having more of a problem at the canter (which translates to in between fences (mostly around corners). I do not want to go around squeezing the whooole time to keep his canter pace up, and I will do the same kick kick whip whip and he'll pick up his canter pace for, oh, 1/2 way around the ring and then slows again. Any advice for how to work with that? Just keep doing what I'm doing?

[Wizard of Oz's]

There are some trainers I know who allow spoiled little kids to use spurs when they have no idea how to use them and it doesn't do them any good at all. When their leg is constantly swinging and the spurs are on the horse at all times, the horse just becomes dull to them. I also know someone who doesn't even use any other aids before turning her toe out and spurring her pony, who in turn bucks and doesn't move forward. I would definately wait before using spurs. Carrying a stick is way more managable than spurs.

[Lucassb]

The rule that I have always followed is that sticks and spurs are given to riders who have enough body control to prevent unintended use.

In my opinion they should not be allowed to because they become reliant on the spurs and crop rather than learning to use their seat and leg and core to get what they want, although I understand at certain advanced levels spurs and whip may be required.


Artificial aids (spurs, sticks) do not replace natural aids (leg, seat, hands) - they merely reinforce them to allow the horse to maintain a reasonable degree of sensitivity. All riders should be taught how to use them correctly.

When you see novice riders on sluggish schoolies, thumping away with their legs in an effort to create a trot... you are witnessing poor training. Better to teach the rider to maintain a proper leg position, apply the (soft, correct) aid appropriately - and then back it up with a properly applied swat with a stick or nudge with a spur to remind the horse that "leg means move."

[GallantGesture]

The problem with a relative-beginner level rider wearing spurs (besides the unintentional jabbing that may happen) is that the aid given with the lower leg/spur is only one of many aids that need to be coordinated correctly for the horse to respond correctly. Like your canter for example, who knows what is really happening without actually seeing you and your horse, but say the problem was that your seat or hands is telling your horse stop but your leg is already effective at telling the horse go. If you add a spur on your leg, but are still hauling on your horse's mouth, it's not really going to fix your problem. Only someone that sees you ride and knows your horse (ie your trainer) can tell you if spurs are really appropriate for your situation or not.

I only have 1 student that sometimes wears spurs, and always carries a whip. Her horse is the laziest paint on the planet and I have worked HARD to install a go button on him, but he tests it all the time, and if he is reminded immediately and firmly that he must go forward, he is fine. I want my training to carry over to the riding she is doing, so I have her ride him the same way and give her the tools to do it. She is also a good enough rider to do this.

No one that rides my personal horse or my lesson horse wears spurs, although I wear spurs on both of them. But when I am schooling either horse, I am doing more difficult work with them than my students do, and tuning them up to be more sensitive so that more leg is not necessary for my students. I always have a little nub spur on figuring the "rather have it and not need it" theory.

[Woodland]

As an instructor I rarely allow my students to wear spurs. I prefer them to properly use seat and leg. On some of my schoolies that require a boost from time to time I allow a crop. BUT if the crop is used to replace proper aids I take it away.

Now my show string riders might get to use spurs - depending on the horse, and the riders ability.

[*Teddy*]

I like riding the sluggish horses as weird as that may sound(would pick em over someting sensitive any day)

I have never worn spurs(I can but choose not too cuz i have only rode one pony who truely ignored leg aids to the point i was going to ride him with spurs, he just didnt listen)

sure it can be frustrating sometimes when they wont go but persistance and a crop or whip works best. some all you need is to just hold the crop they are good some need "convincing" they want to go.

I have developed strong stable legs from riding those types of horses

the mare i ride now hmm depends on her mood whether i carry a crop(generally i like jumping without one) or if shes lazy i will flat with it and drop it for jumping(i know not always the best idea..) she generally listens after that but as i said depends on her mood

[SimplyRed]

I ride at a barn where Everybody wears spurs, from their very first lesson up. Western/english alike. There have only been a few exceptions, and this usually is because the rider just can't let go with their heels and they are making an old school horse fly! When I first started at this barn I was already experienced and jumping 2' so I got my spurs on which I had never used and didn't mind them a bit... they actually helped because I rode a lazy quarter horse. Then, I moved up to a new horse at the barn named Red (aka Simply Red ;D) and we began doing flat and what-not with our spurs, they were okay but unnecessary because if you more than squezed him with your legs Red takes off... so we decided for him to drop the spurs. I'm still riding the amazing, yet sometimes crazy Red, without spurs and I don't mind a bit, even though every other rider at our barn wears them. Afterall, I don't need Red being any crazier! Last fall/winter, a year ago, we were pushing to get to a show in December and skimmed over some basics and got what we needed done.... well came show day, Red was crazy, I was ill-prepared and it didn't go so well. I managed to find myself on the ground two times that day. Haha but we did ribbon in the classes I wasn't DQed from! Then about a month later in lessons we were jumping a course and he freaked out, were still not sure why, and managed to throw me over his shoulder and canter over top of me! I was bruised and sore, but no harm done. Lol we then went back to major flat work and now a year later we are Much Much better together.... now we are a perfect team and I cringe to think what we were like back then! Needless to say, still no spurs needed and I've been riding for 7 years.

[hedmbl]

I was always trained to ALWAYS carry a crop no matter the level. It's a just in case sort of thing for beginners but it's there if the need arises and it's good practice for later in their riding careers.

I didn't ride in spurs when I was a very little kid but as soon as I had enough control of leg to not accidentally bump my pony (I think I was about 5/6) I was expected to wear them every ride on every horse/pony and still do. My first 'spurs' weren't much more then little nubs, though.

And, once secure over little fences, we were taught to never, ever jump without spurs and a stick.

[Guilherme]

Historically, spurs were awarded to a rider by an instructor or evaluator in recognition of skill level in use of seat, leg, and hand sufficient to permit the rider to advance "to the next level."

The spur is a precision device. It can be used as an "accellerator" or "force multiplier" but those are distinctly secondary uses. Some horses perform better with the rider wears spurs (even if they are never used) as the horse knows what they are for. :winkgrin:

If I ruled the world spurs would be awarded in a simple ceremony where the instructor gathers their students together. They would be publically presented. This will not only reward the achieving student it will motivate others to achieve as well.

G.