All you vets out there...

[CallMeGrace]

My son, a high school junior, wants to be an equine surgeon/vet (he has wanted to forever). We are looking at colleges this year. What type of program would you recommend as a good basis for a pre-veterinary student? He is an excellent student, does better with hands on type of learning. Is a straight science-type degree a better preparation than, say, an animal science concentration? Thanks!

[BuddyRoo]

I'm not a veterinarian...but I was on the medical school track and before that veterinary school.

Best advice I have for you is to look at the veterinary school he wishes to attend and learn what their requirements are.

Typically there are a certain number of say biology, chemistry, physics and math classes required--regardless of the major you get in undergrad.

Because there are so few seats for veterinary school, it's also important to try to get into an undergrad college with good placement rates. For example..I chose my college because of the bio majors applying to med school, they had an 80% placement rate. That's pretty good. (I ended up at a small private college for much more hands on lab work and one on one teaching)

[randomequine]

Where are you located and what schools are being considered?

I ask because I am a student at Purdue University in Indiana, studying Animal Science with Pre-Vet concentration.

I think it depends upon what he plans to do if vet school (Heaven forbid!) doesn't work out. I know I will work with animals even if I weren't to go to vet school, so I chose animal science. I was advised to not get a general, say, biology degree, because there is a lot of specialization needed to get a job with just that degree. Animal science is not as specialized as equine science (considered a "death major" by my advisor) (and Purdue doesn't actually offer it) but not as broad as biology. I really enjoy it.

If your son is considering Purdue, PM me. There is a program here called the Vet Scholars Program which students interview for as seniors in high school and then are given provisional acceptance into Purdue's veterinary school. I'm in it, and it's very nice to know that I won't have to apply at the end of my bachelors. Students have to maintain a good GPA and complete a bachelors degree along with take the GRE, but it's a fantastic program if he's extremely serious and looking into Purdue.

Two cents from a current student :-)

[CallMeGrace]

Random, you have a PM!

[FatPalomino]

Make sure he does lots of homework on the field.

As a boarded surgeon, you are looking an a very poorly paid internship + residency out of school.

Undergrad (assuming he will get a degree)= 4 years
Vet school (assuming he gets in on the first try, which is harder than it sounds)= 4 years
Internship/residency (again, providing you get in first try to both)= 4 years
That said, you will get well compensated after those 12 years. But not 1/2 as much as if he was a human doctor or dentist, or a lawyer practicing for 8 years.
Oh, and unless you are footing the bill, it is very likely he can wind up with $100K-$200K in debt ;)

Make sure he works with lots of vets to be sure the field is a good fit. Having a degree in another field is a great thing to fall back on... or pursue at a higher level.

The hands on learning is not until your 3rd or 4th year of vet school for the most part. So, tell him to plan on 10 years of 'pre-clinical' abstract thinking. Yeah... sometimes I wonder why the heck I put myself through this. Luckily I can count down the semesters I have left of pre-clinical work (I am finishing my 1st year at vet school).

I personally recommend getting a degree that has another field that he can go into (i.e. Microbiology, Chemistry). Also keep in mind that many people, even with stunning undergrad grades and expereince do not get into even their home state vet school the first year or two. Some get a master's just to get into vet school. Best advice: get a 4.0 (not a 3.6, or 3.9), rock the GRE's, have diverse vet expereince, and a well balanced life outside of school/work (community service, etc). However, I know one stunning applicant (not me!) that was denied from our in-state vet school twice. She got one B her entire career, and her GRE scores were mind boggling in a good way (she got like one question wrong). She worked at several local clinics and had great expereince, and did her undergrad at CSU.

Their reasoning to her was something to the effect that there is literally nothing she can do to improve her application... it was just a really tough application pool.

That said, males seem to fair better in the application process.

Getting into a vet school that is NOT your state school makes your chances MUCH more slim. There are Caribbean schools, which have accelerated programs, but they should be considered as "if all else fails" options.

Look into some schools. For example, Colorado State has a program that will guarantee admission to vet school for a few undergrads that are accepted to the program and agree to work in food animal. There may be several programs like that... I am not familiar with many of them. There are also some vet schools that will accept a student without having completed a bachelor's degree... and that is certainly a good option to pursue.

It will be a great job, as long as he is prepared for the boring-ness of the first few years of school.

[fromatox]

Make sure he does lots of homework on the field.

AHowever, I know one stunning applicant (not me!) that was denied from our in-state vet school twice. She got one B her entire career, and her GRE scores were mind boggling in a good way (she got like one question wrong). She worked at several local clinics and had great expereince, and did her undergrad at CSU.

Their reasoning to her was something to the effect that there is literally nothing she can do to improve her application... it was just a really tough application pool.


That is...extremely discouraging. I'm only a freshman and I'm already worrying about getting into vet school. I guess there's always med school. :rolleyes: :no:

[BlueEyedSorrel]

That is...extremely discouraging. I'm only a freshman and I'm already worrying about getting into vet school. I guess there's always med school. :rolleyes: :no:

Don't give up yet! I had a friend who had similar qualifications to FatPalomino's friend. She applied to vet school during her senior year of college and was rejected (#7 on the waiting list, they took 5 off the waiting list that year:(). She worked as a vet assistant (tech? not sure of the exact terminology) for a year, with a very good vet who was committed to mentoring her and giving her the experience she needed to strengthen her application. She was accepted when she reapplied, and is a vet at a small animal internship. If this is really what you want to do, another year or 2 to boost your application is nothing in the grand scheme of your whole life.

BES

[AKB]

Check each school's success rate by major for vet school acceptances. My daughter was an Animal Science major at the University of Maryland, College Park. I believe that their acceptance rates are 80-100% for those who survive the rigorous animal science curriculum.

My daughter had less than stellar grades at UMD (3.3), good GREs, lots of research experience-part of which was with UMD professors, and a published paper. She was accepted into 5 vet schools, and is now in her first year of practice as a vet. UMD did a good job of helping her have the best possible resume. The Ag school assistant to the dean, Beth Weiss, is a good person to talk with. She recruits high school students who seem like they will do well at UMD, helps them get accepted to UMD, helps find available scholarship money, and then is a good "mom" to them when they need assistance. You can find her email on the UMD website.

Good luck. You and your son have a long road ahead of you. Be sure you have a backup plan in case he decides vet school is more work or more stress than he wants in his life.

[Blugal]

As I'm from Canada, I never really knew what the situation was like in the US... until I came to Scotland. One of my flatmates is American and going to vet school here - the vet student body is approximately 40% American. She says the tuition's about the same, and it was better (for her) than having to be a vet tech for a year or two in the States while trying to get in.

Not sure of the application procedure, but you could also consider applying earlier than after you've done a 4-year degree. The vet students here start at 18 years old, and are done schooling in 5 years. (Then onto the usual internship/residency if you want to be a surgeon.)

[CallMeGrace]

As I'm from Canada, I never really knew what the situation was like in the US... until I came to Scotland. One of my flatmates is American and going to vet school here - the vet student body is approximately 40% American. She says the tuition's about the same, and it was better (for her) than having to be a vet tech for a year or two in the States while trying to get in.

Not sure of the application procedure, but you could also consider applying earlier than after you've done a 4-year degree. The vet students here start at 18 years old, and are done schooling in 5 years. (Then onto the usual internship/residency if you want to be a surgeon.)

My son is British (dual, actually), and he is investigating vet school there as well as here . We have met some international vet interns that are at Hagyard, and they cautioned him to look at the American Veterinary Schools web site (he knows it - I can't remember the exact name) to be sure the program is recognized. We met a woman at a local equine hospital who completed her schooling in South America and is currently undergoing a rigorous training/apprenticeship required before she can sit the exam.

[findeight]

There are Caribbean schools, which have accelerated programs, but they should be considered as "if all else fails" options.



Interesting this came up...and I never gave it any thought until recently.

My state university affiliated and well connected to the major Ky clinics horse vet opened up a small animal clinic and I have been going there as I found them way superior to several I had been going to. I was somewhat surprised to learn my favorite vet there is out of a Caribbean school.

Mentioned it to the horse vet and he just said getting into a vet school is like playing roulette any more. And we all know that is no guarantee of competency as an actual practicing vet...as some of the well educated idiots I have used have proven.

Imagine their equine programs would be spotty at best as far as actual clinic hands on patients are concerned but, judging by this small animal guy that is well accepted by his prestige school garduate partners? You may want to consider them.

[LSM1212]

My son is British (dual, actually), and he is investigating vet school there as well as here .

I didn't know that... interesting. My hubby is British (not dual). May I ask how that came about? I agree with the "backwards" approach. Figure out what Vet school, then go from there.

[CallMeGrace]

I didn't know that... interesting. My hubby is British (not dual). May I ask how that came about? I agree with the "backwards" approach. Figure out what Vet school, then go from there.

Their Dad is from Glasgow - we lived there for 15 years after we were married, and both kids were born there (in Northumberland). I made the mighty trip to the embassy in London to register them as US citizens born abroad, so they have two passports. Where is your husband from?

[smhlin110]

Would completing a program like this help?

http://www.tufts.edu/vet/avm/

I don't know where you are located, but Tufts runs it in the summer for kids interested in vet science.

I also volunteer at Tufts - is there a local school he can work with to gain experience and get to know them? I'm just an adult volunteer in the winter and the Tech's always want me to apply to work there, so I can't imagine volunteer work and getting to know faculty at his chosen school would hurt his chances!

Good luck to him - I sure wish I had pursued it when I was younger!

[FatPalomino]

I I was somewhat surprised to learn my favorite vet there is out of a Caribbean school.

Mentioned it to the horse vet and he just said getting into a vet school is like playing roulette any more.

The Caribbean schools have an excellent reputation, esp. Ross, which has been around for 25 years. They are in the process of getting AVMA accreditation, as without it, there are is an extra exam you must take that is pretty pricey.

Many people choose the Caribbean because they accept more students and have three start dates a year (vs US school which all start in August). Some second-career applicants do not want to wait several years to go to a US school. The US application cycle is almost a year long from the date you put the application in to the date you start school. Caribbean vet students are done a year sooner because there are no summers off. The final year is done at a US school alongside US 4th semester vet school students. The application process is quicker. You get US Federal-backed financial aid at Ross. The cost is substantially more than your in-state US school, but equivalent to a US out-of-state tuition. The fail-out rate is high and certainly worth factoring into a decision (although, many students do transfer from Caribbean schools to US schools). That said, if you make it through a Caribbean school, given the accelerated program and fact of living in a 3rd world country, most make darn good vets. I have met many amazing vets that are Caribbean graduates.

If someone is sure they would like a career as a vet, they should be open to the opportunities other schools offer. There are also several AVMA accredited programs oversees... including Massey (NZ I think?), Glasgow (I beleive), and several others worth considering.

[Blugal]

Yes, I was talking about Glasgow University Vet school (http://www.gla.ac.uk/vet/). Apparently sometime during your 5th (final) year, you write a $600 American exam called the NAVLE (?) in order to be able to practice in the States.

[pupakin]

Interesting this came up...and I never gave it any thought until recently.

My state university affiliated and well connected to the major Ky clinics horse vet opened up a small animal clinic and I have been going there as I found them way superior to several I had been going to. I was somewhat surprised to learn my favorite vet there is out of a Caribbean school.

Mentioned it to the horse vet and he just said getting into a vet school is like playing roulette any more. And we all know that is no guarantee of competency as an actual practicing vet...as some of the well educated idiots I have used have proven.

Imagine their equine programs would be spotty at best as far as actual clinic hands on patients are concerned but, judging by this small animal guy that is well accepted by his prestige school garduate partners? You may want to consider them.

My Equine vet (who is great by the way) went to vet school in St. Kits and interned in Kentucky. The programs in the islands have US schools that the students go to the lat year of school to intern at and get the a lot of the hands on/clinical stuff. The programs are accelerated but they are also year round (so are they really accelerated). I know of two other vets that went to the St. Kits school. One interned in Wisconson and the other I believe interned at UGA her lat year.

[BlueEyedSorrel]

My son, a high school junior, wants to be an equine surgeon/vet (he has wanted to forever). We are looking at colleges this year. What type of program would you recommend as a good basis for a pre-veterinary student? He is an excellent student, does better with hands on type of learning. Is a straight science-type degree a better preparation than, say, an animal science concentration? Thanks!

You've gotten some great advice, from people who know more about vet med than me:). I have some philosophical advice. Like your son, I always knew, from the time I was very young, that I was interested in science and medicine (I'm in a dual MD/PhD program now). When I started my freshman year, my parents told me that it was OK if I changed my mind and decided not to be pre-med or not to major in biology. At the time, I didn't know how to take it, since I had no intention of changing my mind about anything (ah, to be 18 again and know it all:lol:). Looking back, I realize that it was a real gift that they let me know that I wouldn't disappoint them in any way if I got interested in another career and that changing your mind isn't a failure. Pre-vet and pre-med students can be very type A and really worry about disappointing their parents, their teachers and most of all themselves. It's a double edged sword, because you have to be very focused to get into vet/med school but being that focused makes it even more disappointing if the plan doesn't work out, for whatever reason.

I remember you writing about your son's ambitions to be a vet before on COTH and he strikes me as a very serious and responsible kid who could do well in any field he chooses. Just remind him that at college people get exposed to opportunities they didn't know existed and it's OK not to have everything planned out. He'll probably roll his eyes and say "Mom!":lol: but he'll be glad you said it 10 years later.

BES

[CallMeGrace]

Thanks, BES! I actually had that conversation with him this afternoon on the way home from school. It (the process) sounds so difficult, and I don't want him to be devastated if it doesn't work out. i, also, am someone who rebels against fitting into a mold, and I don't think I could have buckled down to do it! He has so many interests, though, that he thought I was silly asking if there was anything else he would do if he didn't get into vet school!! So, as usual, he is way ahead of me...:D

[LSM1212]

Their Dad is from Glasgow - we lived there for 15 years after we were married, and both kids were born there (in Northumberland). I made the mighty trip to the embassy in London to register them as US citizens born abroad, so they have two passports. Where is your husband from?

Sorry... just noticed this question to me. ;)

Hubby is from England... was born near Tonbridge Wells in Kent.

[Merle]

As a vet student at Cornell, please don't let people discourage you from applying. Yes, it's tough but vet school is tougher. ;) I am from Maine so I had no in-state option, I went to a no-name state school, and got in to every vet school I applied to the first time. It happens! Don't let people psych you out or go too crazy trying to get the grades, etc etc.

[equineartworks]

My DD is in a similar situation, she'll be 16 when she enters college and fears that her age will be a consideration when she graduates as far as employment so this is what she has planned and I am all for it:

She is going to get her degree as a Veterinary Technician (I getting ready to finish coursework required for licensure in NYS as well-yay for me! lol! ) and then complete a BS in Agriculture Sciences while working, she has issues with debt and insists she pays her own way without student loans. Then hopefully go into a Veterinary Program. She is going to be sure that her courses overlap the Pre-Veterinary concentration.

I worked for a vet for years and our lives have always revolved around animals so her choices don't suprise me. She has plans to either establish a TR/Hippo facility and work with special needs kids, work in advocacy for farming or become a Veterinarian eventually...I know that her choices for education with suit her well no matter which route she takes.

This way she will have not only a career to hold her over while in school, but a degree in ag science to build upon with her experiences as a tech should vet school not materialize.

Good luck!

[CallMeGrace]

I am so glad I asked! He is still determined, and is looking at Purdue, Cornell, Ohio State. He is also really interested in Cambridge, but knows that would be an undergrad degree, as it is not recognized by the AVCM. So, we are on the roller coaster. He broke his arm Saturday (skiing, not a horse!), so now he has time to work on it since he cannot work his weekend job at the moment....:(