To breed her dressage or hunter?

[Carrera]

I am looking for some opinions for the spring.

A little background on me, which is why I am asking this. I am a hunter rider by heart, but I am thinking of moving to dressage (I had a bad fall and I don't think that I will ever jump again). I have a wonderful mare that, to me, is a hunter. I need to breed her in the spring for tax reasons, don't flame me I don't want to pay $7000.00 in taxes. Plus I want to be able to produce a horse for myself, or to sell. But whatever, at the end of the day it has to work for me.

My mare going to be presented to RPSI in the fall. If I am going to go the hunter way Aprio is top on my list. But for dressage I need help! I know that by picking a certain stud doesn't mean that you will get a certain type of horse, but it helps.

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?page=2&aid=2340218&id=48902440#/photo.php?pid=42050736&id=48902440
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?page=2&aid=2340218&id=48902440#/photo.php?pid=42050732&id=48902440
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?page=2&aid=2340218&id=48902440#/photo.php?pid=42050735&id=48902440
Sorry the pictures aren't the best, she's 2.5years in them.

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/aziza

[JGHIRETIRE]

Tried to look at the pictures but it says you need to login.
I would rather be shot than have to pay the IRS anymore than I already do!!!

[TwinGates]

Ok, first of all I'm incredibly jealous of your grass! The 2.5yo photos are hard to make a judgement call about, b/c they can change so much @ this age . . . particularly w/as much TB and TK as she carries.

That said, if you're in Canada, a few you might look at:

a. Huno - incredibly talented dressage stallion already performing @ FEI as a 7yo. His bloodlines will reinforce her TB as he carries the important TB stallion Patricius xx thru his sire Magritte, and the highly proven E.H. Ravel (dressage) blood via his dam.

b. Tagaelen - a versatile athlete, this stallion has done jumpers and is now excelling in dressage . . . more important, most of his training has been done by his (female) Amateur/Owner, which speaks to temperament. He's by the important eventing stallion, Domritter out of Tiered Response, a 1/2 TB mare (more TB reinforcement).

c. Zauberklang - not sure if they still offer frozen, but this was a "King among Horses". Champion of his stallion approval in Germany, he was imported by Wonderland Farm (Pa), who showed him @ Dressage @ Devon in 1985 where he was: 1st - Stallions 4 and older, Champion stallion & Reserve Grand Champion of the show.

Successful in eventing and dressage, he was later sold - and lived the rest of his life - at King's Windy Fields in Newmarket, ON. (As an aside, King's Windy Fields also owns Domritter, Tagaelen's sire).

Moreover, he has 4 approved sons in Germany excelling @ the highest levels of jumpers and dressage, and is royally bred: offering the legendary Impuls and Prince Rouge xx (more TB!) in his 2nd generation. Rare and incredibly valuable blood!

[Carrera]

Sorry here they are so everyone can see them

http://www.flickr.com/photos/29074050@N05/2718080628/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/29074050@N05/3097308143/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/29074050@N05/3097308101/

[nsm]

You should look at Waldaire, he is a lovely dressage stallion with a wonderful disposition.

Nancy

[Carrera]

Ok, first of all I'm incredibly jealous of your grass! The 2.5yo photos are hard to make a judgement call about, b/c they can change so much @ this age . . . particularly w/as much TB and TK as she carries.

That said, if you're in Canada, a few you might look at:

a. Huno - incredibly talented dressage stallion already performing @ FEI as a 7yo. His bloodlines will reinforce her TB as he carries the important TB stallion Patricius xx thru his sire Magritte, and the highly proven E.H. Ravel (dressage) blood via his dam.

b. Tagaelen - a versatile athlete, this stallion has done jumpers and is now excelling in dressage . . . more important, most of his training has been done by his (female) Amateur/Owner, which speaks to temperament. He's by the important eventing stallion, Domritter out of Tiered Response, a 1/2 TB mare (more TB reinforcement).

c. Zauberklang - not sure if they still offer frozen, but this was a "King among Horses". Champion of his stallion approval in Germany, he was imported by Wonderland Farm (Pa), who showed him @ Dressage @ Devon in 1985 where he was: 1st - Stallions 4 and older, Champion stallion & Reserve Grand Champion of the show.

Successful in eventing and dressage, he was later sold - and lived the rest of his life - at King's Windy Fields in Newmarket, ON. (As an aside, King's Windy Fields also owns Domritter, Tagaelen's sire).

Moreover, he has 4 approved sons in Germany excelling @ the highest levels of jumpers and dressage, and is royally bred: offering the legendary Impuls and Prince Rouge xx (more TB!) in his 2nd generation. Rare and incredibly valuable blood!


Funny you mention Tagaelen, this mare`s half brother is by him and I love the boy to death! I really think that Tagaelen is a way under-used stallion

[acottongim]

Not really going to comment on who to breed her to (there are soooo many options out there! :)) but did get a certain "thrill" when I saw that your mare has Diplomat Way in her!!!! OMG I LOVE that!!!!! Esp since she is so far up north.

I have a DW granddaughter (my mare is 3/4 T'bred and 1/4 TK) and have had the MOST success with Oskar. I got the DW big hip, strong topline, and good saddle position (some of that Oskar throws also) but got the longer legs from Oskar (My DW mare is a small girl and most of the ones I've seen kept that trait) and more movement from Oskar. Just something to keep in mind and maybe watch for in a future sire.

I've just noticed that the DW tends to really come through for several generations. The good thing is that they tend to be awesome over fences (hunters and jumpers) and are athletic with good brains! I bred my mare twice to Oskar with awesome results (got best of both worlds) and bred once to Impressionist which was a very good cross and I love him to pieces, but since Imp doesn't necessarily throw height that cross kept the DW shorter legs and slightly "heavier" look as opposed to the more modern/leggy look... Preston also moves more like the dam than the other two Oskars do.

[Carrera]

This girl's mom was originally a polo pony then turned hunter. Out of the 5 foals her dam has they were all much taller than her. Aziza is about 16hh now as a looooong 2 year old. Her sire wasn't over 16.1hh either. So I don't think that the DW height is in play with this girl!

I will for sure look into Oskar. Thanks!

[acottongim]

This girl's mom was originally a polo pony then turned hunter. Out of the 5 foals her dam has they were all much taller than her. Aziza is about 16hh now as a looooong 2 year old. Her sire wasn't over 16.1hh either. So I don't think that the DW height is in play with this girl!

I will for sure look into Oskar. Thanks!

That is good and of course everything is just generalities! :) What I was getting at is that I would be careful to breed to a stallion that doesn't throw any height/leg as you might end up a bit smaller/shorter leg than what is looked for now days. The dam was prob (I'm guessing here and of course may be way off base) bred to stallions that are like Oskar and produce some height/leg and that is why the foals are all bigger. :) Most of the DW offspring (or close up) are 15.1 - 16.0 hh and "heavier" than most t'bred now days. My two Oskars are goinig to be bigger than their mom too by a long shot but that is from Oskar overcoming DW. Don't get me wrong, I love DW in a pedigree and there isn't a lot of it in sport horses - he was way too valuable and popular as a broodmare sire for racing! I love the hip, the short coupling, the athleticism, and the MIND on them. If you look at my website, my mare is Encore (under broodmares) - I see many similarities to your mare. The foals she has had are Emerald Impressions, Emerald Fire, and Emerald Tsar (the last two are the Oskars).

Of coure, he was just one factor of your mare's pedigree so her bloodlines are influenced by all the other factors of her ancestry (that is what makes breeding so much FUN! :lol:

[goodmorning]

I have a mare with DW in her pedigree - she is lovely, and yes, has a huge hip :yes: She isn't short coupled, and although at one point she was 16.2h, I'd take a guess that shes closer to 16+ with those shortish legs you are talking about :lol: Fabulous mind as well...She has a bunch of other nice TB stallions up close (Seattle Slew, Turn-To, Double Jay, ect.), but I love to hear about these traits that some stallions seem so prepotent for!

[acottongim]

Funny, I had someone stick my mare once and she was "15.3 3/4" for her inspection (several years later) when she was stuck on hard/level ground she was REALLY 15.2 1/4 LOL.

Preston (the Impressionist colt) is coming 6 and is 15.3 - 16 hh (still growing a little but he is basically done). While the other two are still young, but the filly at 1 is almost as tall as mom now...

[TwinGates]

Funny you mention Tagaelen, this mare`s half brother is by him and I love the boy to death! I really think that Tagaelen is a way under-used stallion

And owner Kelly Willemze is extremely good to work with. I agree, he is under-used, and a quality PERFORMING (sorry, my litmus test before considering any stallion) Trakehner stallion.

[Carrera]

I agree that Tagaelen and Kelley are wonderful, I think that I might have made up my mind about who I am going to breed my mare to!

Here is Gunther (Guten Tag) my 2007 Tagaelen gelding:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/29074050@N05/3098679583/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/29074050@N05/3098679585/

[grayfox]

What about Dacaprio? I've only seen dressage horses but I've heard he also throws hunter movement sometimes. That way you could see what you get. Good luck with whomever you choose.

[TwinGates]

What about Dacaprio? I've only seen dressage horses but I've heard he also throws hunter movement sometimes. That way you could see what you get. Good luck with whomever you choose.

Based on Gunther (love the name Guten Tag!), I'd say you've made a good choice. Send pix of the foal when it arrives! BTW, Tagaelen is one of the stallions in the ATA Stallion Service Auction beginning January 1st.