Stallion advice for big Hanoverian mare

[Donella]

I have finally decided on stallions for my two other mares and have now to choose a date for our big Waldkoenig x Wodka x Der Lowe xx mare. She is a 1A prize winning mare but is BIG in the body and throws very tall foals. I would like to downsize her in both bone and height.
Things I would like to improve:
Prettier head/eye.
Better trot with more suspension and knee action!.
Refinement overall.

So I am open to both frozen and fresh semen. I would like a really proven stallion but have been drawn to Benidetto for her so far and have had Dacaprio suggested as well (which I think would be quite a nice match!). Any other thoughts?? (Must be Hano approved)

Here are some pics:

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn273/SpruceViewFarms/DSC_0145_edited-1.jpg
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn273/SpruceViewFarms/DSC_0127_edited-1.jpg
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn273/SpruceViewFarms/DSC_0043_edited-1.jpg

THANKS!

[Walnut Farm]

Thank you for thinking of Benidetto! He just finished his 70 day test with above average in all categories, was even the best jumping dressage horse!

I know his first foal won't be here for another couple of weeks (knock on wood :)

We are having a special right now on his semen, you can see new photos and videos on your website. I think he would tone down size in your otherwise lovely mare

Sincerely

[Iron Horse Farm]

Just from your photos, I do not see a horse that needs to be lighter, but rather one that needs to be more balanced. A rounder, fuller hip would make her more equal - and not make the middle portion so dominant. Ditto to the neck/wither connection. A better connection would lift the back a bit and make her look less "middle heavy". Because really, I don't think that she is.............there is plenty of TB "lightness" in her pedigree.

Now, I will start thinking of stallions..............

[Cinnybren]

What about Edgar's lovely stallion Pablo?

[STF]

Benidetto
Lullaby?
Landafrise (sp?)
Donarwiess?
Highlight, the the boy at Oak Hill. He has by eye too!

[Whitfield Farm Hanoverians]

I'd also consider Fidertanz. Most of his are refined with joint action & suspension but you'll want to be sure your mare is very soft & swinging in her back & tends to throw that.

[horsepix76]

What about ES Widmark? He is a lovely elite Hanoverian stallion currently showing PSG under his owner/trainer.

http://www.oakwoodhanoverian.com/Stallions/Widmark.html

[Dressage-ryder]

I like the idea of Benidetto and Dicaprio---- Both lovely boys!
Great option for frozen or fresh :)

[Donella]

I wish Benidetto had a foal crop on the ground. I think my mare is pretty prepotant, but if it did work the way I wanted it to, I think it would be a great cross. He would add some elegance, knee action and suspension (I think he definately has that) and hopefully reduce height.

It is not that this mare is super tall, she is 16.3 hh but her first foal by a 16.3 hh stallion is now a solid 18hh and her filly from Autocrat (16.3) is also VERY tall (though she does have very long legs). I think she really throws height. I also think maybe the pictures do not convey how substantial she is, but most people who see her for the first time say "now THAT is a BIG mare". I do think she could use being compressed a bit.

Whitfield. Great suggestion..but I don't think she is free enough in her back when she moves.

STF, I had thought of Donnarwiess and Lullaby but both do not have the trot I am looking for. Who is Highlight??

I like Widmark. I will look at him again. Actually, it just dawned on me that maybe something W line would work. She is not a short legged mare and I like to breed type to type, so maybe something like Wolkenstein or Wolkentanz (though I don't know much about what either needs, produces ect). They do have substantial hind ends though and they know how to use them! I would like to get a good dose of Absatz in there.

[alexandra]

FOr Benidettos first foal you only have to wait until christmas - first mare due is on christmas eve ;-)

[STF]

Donella,
Highlight is the newly AHS approved stallion that Oak Hill Ranch owns -
http://www.oakhillranch.com/stallions_highlight.php

[Home Again Farm]

I like the idea of Benidetto. Or Wolkentanz I. He gives the typical Weltmeyer suspension, along with great rideability and willingness to work. :yes:

[Donella]

Alexandra, do you have a Benidetto coming??? What kind of mare is the first foal from?

STF, I saw Highlight. He himself is quite elegant looking, but with that Hohenstien in there..mmm not sure?

Mary Lou,
Do you think this mare would suit Wolkentanz? Is your mare a Wolkentanz I or II?

[Home Again Farm]

IMO, Wolkentanz I won't be likely to add height. I think he passes on a nice type. He can add to length of back and I don't know how that will do with your mare. My homebred mare Wolkenstanza is by Wolkentanz I out of Rohanna. You can see her here:

http://www.homeagainfarm.com/pages/Roh2004.html

I have a full sibling coming in January and am hoping this cross proves to be reliable. Where is the crossed fingers and toes smilie?

[karin@dutchbreeders@aol.com]

Hi Donella!
Are there any Quattro sons (like Quiksilber) that are Hanoverian Approved or would get you a registerable foal? Horses of the Quattro line are often LOVELY movers despite the "jumper" pedigree...... I think Quiksilber would be perfect for your (lovely!) mare! My Quiksilber X Silvio 1 filly Deja Vu is like a ballerina.....Refined, beautiful and fantastic movement to go with her light type.....

From the Schockemohle website:
"Quicksilber passes his modern light type on to his progeny: an eye-catching athletic conformation. "

Here is the full text..Photos also on this website and also on Sires page of my website....

"World Young Horse Champion of very light type

This extremely sporty show jumper is an interesting pedigree alternative. After winning the young horse world championships for five year olds in 2005, Quicksilber swiftly moved on to the 1.50 level and – aged seven – he was placed at CSI*-level with Manuel Fernandez Saro. His quick reactions, ideal bascule and scopey jump earned him the title “Reserve Champion” at the Brandenburg approvals. Impressing with his high quality gaits, he was proclaimed the superior winner of his 30 day test and after winning many young horse classes he made it to the finals of the German young horse championships. Quicksilber’s sire Quattro was himself successful on an international level and has produced not only top show jumpers up to Olympic level, but also particularly good dressage horses. The dam’s sire Restorator, who is well remembered as an international show jumper, achieved much success in east-Germany. Quicksilber passes his modern light type on to his progeny: an eye-catching athletic conformation. A colt from his 2007 crop reached the finals of the German foal championships, making him one of the top ten foals in the country. In 2006 Quicksilber was the producer of the winning foal in Mecklenburg."

Hope this helps!

Warmly,
Karin

[Donella]

HAF, Your Stanza is pretty fantastic, no doubt. I don't want to add back length to Willow though, do you think the same is true of Wolkenstein?

Karin,
thanks for the great suggestion. I adore the Quattro line..I would love to breed to Quattro himself actually..though thought his semen was no good until learning differently a few months ago. This mare is actually in foal right now to Quaterback. I don't think he will reduce her height though, as it sounds like he is adding it... We shall see! Would you consider your Qicksilber foal to be an improvement in trot over the dam??

[ticofuzzy]

I have a very substantial Davignon mare who throws huge babies and her lightest, leggiest foal so far is by Londonderry. My mare reliably puts a beautiful head and neck on all her babies and Londonderry added long legs and a lighter body. I was very pleased with the combination. She is currently in foal to Benidetto.

[DownYonder]

Does Dacaprio tend to throw more like Davignon, or more like Caprimond?

What about Royal Prince?

[ticofuzzy]

I have a DaCaprio/Wolkenstein II mare who is very light and refined. She throws light and refined as well.
I also have a Royal Prince/Donnerhall filly who is very refined and small. I know others have had tall babies by RP, but in my case he downsized my mare.

[Peg]

I have owned 2 Dacaprio mares. Both were refined, smaller in stature and very sensitive to the aids. Their personalities are great. One is training 3rd level (Dacaprio/Wolkenstein ll) and resembles Weltmeyer and the other is a Dacaprio/Matcho that debuts next year under saddle. Both are 16 hands. Peg

[maple_brook]

I would consider Royal Prince for her. I know after his first foal crop there was concern that he was producing very tall, but now that they are coming 3 years old, I've heard of quite a few that are smaller.

[karin@dutchbreeders@aol.com]

"Karin,
thanks for the great suggestion. I adore the Quattro line..I would love to breed to Quattro himself actually..though thought his semen was no good until learning differently a few months ago. This mare is actually in foal right now to Quaterback. I don't think he will reduce her height though, as it sounds like he is adding it... We shall see! Would you consider your Qicksilber foal to be an improvement in trot over the dam??"


You are very welcome Donella! Judy Yancey offered Quattro this year, and supposedly they had changed the method or extender and the Quattro semen is now good... There should be some results/pregnancies with that semen.....Does anyone have any experience with it? That said, from what my research turned up, I believe that Quiksilber will give a more modern type and more refinement than his sire Quattro.....

As for your question regarding Deja Vu's trot (Quiksilber X Silvio 1 Elite Preferent), hard to say as the mare has a very good trot herself, and throws it.....I would say that Quiksilber definitely added more "lightfootedness", and perhaps more elasticity to the mare's power and good self carriage....Here is a link to many photos of Deja Vu from the KWPN Keuring at ISF (she was 1st Premium). It might be interesting for you to compare these photos of Deja Vu to both of her half sisters (Dulce de Leche by Balou du Rouet, and Divine by Krack C, both also First Premium), in order to see what Quiksilber brought to the table...Photos of all three are on this same website, and all three ET fillies are less than a month apart, so a pretty good indicator of what each stallion added to the mix!<G> These are professional photos taken by Stacey Lynn....She is very talented and the filly photogenic, so lots of good ones to look at and choose from!

http://stacylynnephoto.exposuremanager.com/g/deja_vu_scf


Quiksilber also refined the bone and size on Marie Louise Elite Pref (who is a substantial 16.3 h plus).....and gave shorter coupling and exceptional type....Hope these photos help you....Some of Stacey's will be posted on our own website by the end of next week.

Can't wait to see your Quaterback!
Warmly,
Karin