How does the economy effect your breeding & training plans?

[talloaks]

Just wondering how other breeders are dealing with the downturn in the economy with their breeding plans for the future and also training plans for present horses. I keep going back and forth wondering if I should breed next year, or if I should wait and year or so. I do have a horse in training and have decided to keep him going as he is. But as the stallion directories come in the door, I am tempted to breed my mares and am not sure that is the best thing to do.
What is everyone else planning about breeding in 09??

[okggo]

I don't know if the economy has changed my plans vs just a practical reassessment of where we are personally and what we want to do/accomplish. I have a breeding (paid for) I was fully intending to use in '09 but have decided to wait on it. We have small acreage, and I work nasty long hours (thanks to my 4 hours of commuting) and it actually took me DOING it for several months for me to realize my own capabilities and sanity level. I'm at a work load that is difficult (6 horses) but do-able. Any more and I'll be moving my alarm from 4 a.m. to 3:30 a.m. and have boycotted that idea totally. I'd like to get down to 4 horses, honestly, as I think it will just be easier with our acreage and schedules (one "slot" would be for revolving sales, foal or OTTB). So until I get down in #s I'm calling it quits and really going to focus time, energy and training on the ones we have vs bringing more in.

Honestly, Bernie...you didn't ask for an opinion but I don't see this economy affecting your breedings AT ALL. You sell yours in utero or just out of the oven pretty much guaranteed. I think it would be another story for people with a lot full of unsold weanlings, yearlings, 2 year olds, etc, but you don't fall into that category, and even though the economy isn't ideal it has been going in this direction awhile, so if you haven't been hit by it (your sales) yet, I doubt you'll even notice it.

[Daydream Believer]

Well...I'm not sure yet either what I'm doing but probably will breed less next Spring. I have 4 foals left from this last crop of 5...one was sold and then they backed out. One isn't for sale so that leaves three for sale...all very nice quality babies. This time last year I had six for sale and all but two are sold now...one is a keeper so that really only leaves one. My sales were much better this year for babies than I ever expected them to be but I had two buyers buy two fillies each...so it might be a bit hard to judge by. Not sure what to expect now but no nibbles in a while on anything but this is not a good time to sell horses going into the holidays and winter.

I have six foals on the way. I might need my head examined breeding that many this past Spring but at the time it seemed like a good idea considering a stallion I acquired is 19 going on 20...and he is really lovely. I am taking a wait and see stance right now on how many I'm breeding back. I will probably breed at least one mare to each stallion but it remains unclear and a year off from breeding is not out of the question..might be my chance to hike the Appalachian Trail finally! (got to look at the bright side!) I'm going to try to have more semen frozen this summer also especially on the older stallion just in case.

I have a number of geldings for sale and one filly old enough to start. I am trying really hard between my part time trimming and full time training of some other horses that are here now to get some of these horses backed and doing something. It's hard by yourself but I need to move out the geldings more than anything else. One gelding has been backed and he's a super cute mover and a nice sport pony type. I hope we can get him to some shows next summer and sell him for a reasonable price.

The other angle I'm exploring is driving. I have an old show sulky that I inherited with this farm (from the previous Arabian owners) that I've fixed up just the perfect size for my little horses and have purchased a decent harness. My older stallion already drives and I'm hoping to get some of my youngsters started in harness also as I get better at it. They are nicely suited to it and I think this a good potential market also for our versatile breed. I'm not aware of anyone in our area that drives either...it may be a nice niche for training also.

I do think the economy bears some consideration. I have seen quite a downswing in my boarding/breeding business. My clients who are Arab folks have seen some very sharp cuts in their sales and they have some very nice horses and breed to well known stallions with stud fees that would make a WB breeder quail.

[camohn]

I bred none this year
I was kicking around breeding none, 1 (19 YO mare that should stay bred) or 2 (add the 3 YO mare I ideally wanted to breed once before getting u/s). I think I am probably leaning towards breeding only the 19 YO mare at this point. With the slow economy the 3 YO is not a priority.
Showing: since my witless wonder (very spooky) 6 YO WB mare has finally shown signs of growing a brain this past year and is doing much better leaving the farm for off site lessons without coming unglued I think I will try finding some intro/training level dressage classe for her to show locally u/s and showing somewhere between 1 and 4 of the babies (2 weaners, a yearling and a 2 YO) at some in hand stuff locally.The yearling is a stud colt so he is actually a priority so he can learn to behave off the farm before he gets big and studly.

[YankeeLawyer]

I am not breeding in 09 but I wasn't planning to do so anyway. I have 2 foals due in 09 and my plan was to put the mares back into training and then breed them by ET in 2010 or 2011.

[secretariat]

A lot depends on how many you can carry until the market improves and what your cash flow situation is (Hay at $6 - 10/bale gets REAL EXPENSIVE really fast). Breeding now would seem to me to be targeted for the upswing in the economy (I expect this recession to last 24 mos, then up to 12 more before we understand it's over and people regain their confidence). But if you've got room for 10 horses, and have 5 mares and 5 babies left over, it gets crowded and expensive.

On the up side, there IS a market still out there for the right product. We sold out of our entire inventory of experienced event horses - first time that's ever happened. We've sold 5 or so in the last 30 days, and have been turning buyers away and/or taking them to other farms in the area. Sane, sound, experienced young horses with public records are in demand. The very old or the very young seem to be the most impacted in this market.

The other impact on us is that we're buying -- actually more horses than I originally wanted to carry; there are some astoundingly nice horses out there for little or no money. We can leverage that availability because we back our own horses and have space on two farms to park them; we started something like 16 of them just this year. So we don't mind buying young stock, stockpiling. starting them, and putting the miles on that are necessary to resell. The result? We've got the best 3 yo FEH, 4 yo YEH, and 5 yo YEH string we've ever had. That's reflected in our 2008 entries -- 2, 4 yo YEH classes entered, 2 firsts -- with 2 different horses! And this year's group is better.

We've got 5 in utero and plan to rebreed them all next year.

[winsmorefarm]

We do no have any foals due in the spring and are still deciding whether or not to breed anyone for 2010 arrivals. We have our place up for sale with plans of relocation to VA hopefully in '09. Our hay prices are currently in the $20/bale range (although I have been lucky to secure a small amount quality hay at the $12 - $14/bale range), but with CA going for drought year #2, we are expecting hay prices (along with everything else) to rise.

I have two horses that I am hoping to get into training and start showing a little bit more (at least in-hand), as well as my 2008 colt too. So, I may decide to put forth my efforts (and $$) on what I already have on the ground, but then I have to get past those stallion auctions coming up...

[NoDQhere]

We bred mares to only our old guy last year. His youngsters are easy to sell and he is getting older. 22 this year. We concentrated on getting the show results needed for our young guy to get his fully approved status so did not breed any mares to him in 08. Honestly though we are kicking ourselves as we are now starting his youngsters and they are pretty nice.

We will probably breed a dozen or so in 09. But our situation is different from many folks too. We don't try (very hard) to sell youngsters until they are under saddle. We have a farm. We do our own farming. Very different than the people paying $10.00 and up for a bale of hay. Although the $4.00+ a gallon for farm diesel this hay season really hit us hard.

Like every one else, we hope the economy improves.

[grayfox]

I'm breeding 10 or 11 next year. I think by the time they are born the economy will be picking up again. I still think babies are selling, I'm not super worried.

[TrueColours]

We are full steam ahead over here as well ... :)

Just bought a new TB mare that arrived on the weekend and she will be bred to Remember My Name as he is leaving in 2009 to go to Scotland so wont have another chance to breed to him

I am selling some stock, and acquiring others. I am hoping to breed my Faux Finish mare to 6-7 stallions over the course of the next 3 years and implant some of those embryo's and freeze the others

The long term plans for me are to downsize the breeding herd and get a special foal or two to show each year and then sell them out of the ring and move on to the next crop. I miss showing, so as I move away from the commercial breeding end of things, I will ramp up the showing involvement instead. I hope it evolves in a way that allows me to unfreeze and implant an embryo each year from Faux Finish so that I have one of her youngsters each year to bring into the ring

Those are the plans anyhow! :) And they are not economy related at all - its just how I foresee my involvement with the horses changing over the next few years and who knows - maybe I'll get back into showing the hunters myself as well ... :)

[Hillside H Ranch]

I'm pretty much breeding the same as usual. I had 5 foals this year, sold three in-utero, one is a keeper and one was just weaned. I only have two on the way for '09. I am planning on trying for 5 for the '10 crop, but we will see how those plans go. I'm actually in the process of trying to buy another mare; a phenomenal mare for a steal, but waiting on the all important pre-purchase repro results!
However, I am changing my showing plans a little, not just b/c of the economy, but for various reasons. I often show my babies in-hand (USDF) and although it is good experience for them I don't believe that it helps me sell them at all. I've decided to scale back on that area and put that money into more training for the few older horses I have (a coming 3 year old and a coming 4 year old). Honestly, most of that will go to training and showing the 4 year old, b/c he is the 1st horse from my breeding program that is old enough to get out there and "make a name for himself". I think that my money is better spent getting him out and about then on taking the babies out triangle trotting!
I am blessed in that I can put my product on the ground a lot cheaper than most of you, simply b/c of geography. Hay is much cheaper here than other parts of the country. Gas right now is $1.37/gallon. Bulk shavings are $100 for a full dump truck load, etc. etc. Plus, my breeding work is a little cheaper since my husband does it.

[Blonde Filly]

We are going full blast here...with our first one due in Jan. 2009 and adding 2 new mares for 2009..so if all goes well, I will actually have 11 due in 2010 and have 9 due in 2009!!! Yikes!!!! :eek::eek::eek:

The economy does not seem to be affecting my sales, but does effect the cost of raising them at this point with everything much higher in price for all the care!!!!!

I'm hoping the economy will start a turn around in 2009, but I think it will be slow and long before it bounces back...many, many years! This has been a global failure at this point and will take a long, long time to turn around.

Best of luck to everyone in 2009!!! :D

[hansiska]

You can add me to the list whose plans are unchanged by the economy, but my breeding program is seeing a changing of the guard of sorts. My biggest foal crops ever were two foals, so that tells you the size of things here! Last year, my old mare died. It was the end of an era for me, but also allows me to focus on the future.

A three year old gelding I bred finally sold last spring, too, so I used the money to go out and buy the best future broodmare I could possibly find. Here she is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8NXT6-9Iq4
She's a 6 month old Rascalino/ Warkant/ Argentan filly and I'm pretty over the moon about her.

My other "broodmare" is coming five and I'm thinking I might like to show her a bit and do the MPT before I breed her (but I'm very tempted to breed her this spring). I've waited a long time for a riding horse and I'd like to see what we can accomplish together. I also think a good show record will help sell her future foals, so I'd like to make that happen.

[arizonard]

We are breeding more mares than ever in 2009. We have had a great response to the program and sales are looking good. I have lowered our prices a bit in order to stay current in this economy, but we are looking ahead and feeling positive. :)

[unbridledoaks]

We are having a good response for breedings for 2009 with our stallions, even going to export semen with one of our stallions, which is great. We have had enquiries on our foals for 2009, so we plan to keep breeding at the same number that we are now. The only thing that we are doing different is staying more local for shows, since the area is getting more and more rated shows.

[Tasker]

The economy hasn't really impacted us that much *fingers crossed*. New students have signed up with mom, the regulars have stuck to their schedule, sales are about the same and inquiries have picked up in the last month.

Breeding plans for the spring are still being hashed out and will continue until the mare(s) in question are ovulating. :D We'll probably be adding 1 mare into the mix and aim for 6-8 foals in 2010.

Our competition schedule will be heavier next year, probably back to the '01-03 routine - every other weekend from March - October with limited breed shows outings and more FEI dressage. If all goes according to plan, I have 2 for the FEI 5 year olds and 2 in the 4 year olds...so that should keep us pretty busy.

[Faiths CremelloWB]

The economy has not changed my breeding plans at all. I will not be expanding though will remain the same which is 6-10 foals a year. I sell some in-utero, as foals, as yearling's and as two year olds etc... My goals have always been the same which is to keep a few as future breeding stock and back, train and show the few kids too. I am very comfortable with the number of horses I currently have and as new ones are born, more will be sold to keep me with about the same number. Not based on the economy; we had already decided to add a new piece to our breeding program. We have our first race horse broodmare (Officer Cherrie) and she is booked to Tiznow for 2009.

We are expanding our facility to include a large indoor arena (80x204) and new 26 stall barn. So now we can really take our young horses to the next level of competition with out it costing me a fortune in monthly training bills. I will be showing more for sure in '09. With the new facility comes a new aspect of our business which will be starting youngsters, training, offering clinics etc. We will not rely solely on breeding for income anymore. This has been the plan all along and not a decision based on the economy.

Yes this down turn in the economy has been a long time in the making and is going to take many years to turn around. I am sure there will be less buyers out there with the down turn in economy so some breeders will end up carrying horses longer. With the feed prices, bedding and everything else going up, those that work with limited stalls, time and funds will end up holding off a year or two before breeding again. These breeders likely have other jobs for their real income and horses are more of a hobby.

Good luck with breeding and happy foalsings to everyone in 2009!!!!!

[Lesley Feakins]

We cut back on our breeding in 2008 and only have 2 foals due for 2009...not our usual 7 - 10 foals. With only two foals coming...I won't know what to do with all my spare time!!!LOL

Actually, we will be busy and will be focusing on several 3 yr olds and two 4 yr olds that need to get going under saddle and we have a couple of mares that I would like for them to do their MPT.

We have been selling and have been suprised that inquiries are still coming in. No idea at this time whom we will breeding in 2009.

[maple_brook]

The downturn in the economy has not effected our market really. We sold all the foals from this year that we wanted to and I am about to finalize a sale on one of the 2009 in-uteros. I've spoken with others who have sold horses this fall. The market for quality horses/foals seems just fine. So we are full steam ahead with our 2010 foal plans...all three mares will hopefully be re-bred. *crossed fingers*

[MagicRoseFarm]

we will be plugging along breeding our normal 3/4. We have a few of riding age that we will compete a bit this year so they are "ready" to sell.

The youngsters we currently have dictate that we should be doing more Hunter breeding shows vs. DSHB with babies in 2009.

[Sunnydays]

I'm throwing caution to the wind, and breeding 6 or 7 mares next spring. If they all catch, I may sell one "in foal", as I really don't have the room for 7 broodmares and foals.:) Just so hard to stop.
This year I sold 4 of my 5 foals (all to repeat buyers, all fillies - not much interest in the colt, though he is super-quality - go figure), and it looks as if 4 of my 2009 crop may be sold in-utero (tbc - soon). I did, however, offer pretty good prices on my 2009 in-uteros ...

[talloaks]

I don't know if the economy has changed my plans vs just a practical reassessment of where we are personally and what we want to do/accomplish. I have a breeding (paid for) I was fully intending to use in '09 but have decided to wait on it. We have small acreage, and I work nasty long hours (thanks to my 4 hours of commuting) and it actually took me DOING it for several months for me to realize my own capabilities and sanity level. I'm at a work load that is difficult (6 horses) but do-able. Any more and I'll be moving my alarm from 4 a.m. to 3:30 a.m. and have boycotted that idea totally. I'd like to get down to 4 horses, honestly, as I think it will just be easier with our acreage and schedules (one "slot" would be for revolving sales, foal or OTTB). So until I get down in #s I'm calling it quits and really going to focus time, energy and training on the ones we have vs bringing more in.

Honestly, Bernie...you didn't ask for an opinion but I don't see this economy affecting your breedings AT ALL. You sell yours in utero or just out of the oven pretty much guaranteed. I think it would be another story for people with a lot full of unsold weanlings, yearlings, 2 year olds, etc, but you don't fall into that category, and even though the economy isn't ideal it has been going in this direction awhile, so if you haven't been hit by it (your sales) yet, I doubt you'll even notice it.


Oh my okggo, I had no idea the purchase of your farm would make things so much more difficult for you. I know commuting can really eat the hours away but yet it is so difficult or impossible to find a farm close to Wash DC!!! I am sure if you could empty a couple of stalls things will be easier. Do you stall your horses every night, or are they living in run in sheds??? I know we have sooo much work because our horses come in every night. I know they have an easy life!! We have lots of physical work cleaning stalls---ugh!

I also think as long as we have broodmares, and a farm, we will breed a couple of the mares every so often, so 09 may be the year to breed again. No foals coming this year so it will be a test to see what it is like without any youngsters. Planning a vaction, don't know what one is since it has been so many years since we have gone anywhere for any length of time!

Still watching the economy and will make adjustments as we see fit.

Good Luck to everyone!!

[okggo]

Oh my okggo, I had no idea the purchase of your farm would make things so much more difficult for you. I know commuting can really eat the hours away but yet it is so difficult or impossible to find a farm close to Wash DC!!! I am sure if you could empty a couple of stalls things will be easier. Do you stall your horses every night, or are they living in run in sheds??? I know we have sooo much work because our horses come in every night. I know they have an easy life!! We have lots of physical work cleaning stalls---ugh!

I also think as long as we have broodmares, and a farm, we will breed a couple of the mares every so often, so 09 may be the year to breed again. No foals coming this year so it will be a test to see what it is like without any youngsters. Planning a vaction, don't know what one is since it has been so many years since we have gone anywhere for any length of time!

Still watching the economy and will make adjustments as we see fit.

Good Luck to everyone!!


It's the commute mainly. And it's not harder, per say, just gets really really old. My commute was 1 hour 15-30 minutes before we purchased the farm. Then we had our horses boarded 40 minutes from there! So that added 80 minutes on the road if we wanted to go see them. Now it's 2 hours (with traffic) straight shot and home/done with it. Weekends are bliss, not driving around to boarding barns!

We do not keep them in stalls, each pasture has a huge run in with three open stalls, where we feed. We still muck as needed, and drag the pastures. But feed 2x day, plus have free choice round bales. It's work, but tolerable. Any more horses would just be too much, though.

My problem isn't the farm, it's working in DC, lol.

Again, though, I don't think you'll feel the economic side of lost sales, your foals are just too exceptional.