YES another Pick my Stallion Post

[HilaryHrsRdr]

I have a Cassini I x Caretino x Calypso IV mare. I am debating between the following stallions. Please give me your insight- it would take me too long to write about my mare expect she has good ridability, can jump very well, and has good conformation. I just need a stallion to give me what she is but maybe a bit more scopey with a good ' freakish' hind end! Here are a few of my choices:
- Lord Z
- Corrado I
- Corland
- Cordalme Z
- Cobra
- Eurocommerce Napels
- Burggraaf
- Lord Calando

[ShowjumpersUSA]

Very interesting pedigree! Is she in the US? Does she have a stamm number? If so, can you tell us who the mothers are?

You've listed a wide variety of stallions of various types. It would be impossible to give you any useful information without knowing more about your mare's size, conformation and temperament.

[HilaryHrsRdr]

Stamm 5964:

My Horse: Sire: Cassini I Dam: S-Caretina
Dam Sire: Caretino Dam's Dam: Victoria 5
Victoria 5 Sire: Calypso IV Victoria 5 Dam: Harlita

She has a wonderful temperament, high ridability, great front end, and about 16.1 hands now. She is only 4 years old. I would like to breed her to another Holsteiner stallion that will help improve her hind end, and maybe improve her ridability even more. I really like Corrado I......

[ShowjumpersUSA]

Is the mare big and framey or is she short coupled. Good topline? Leggy? Are you going to want to register the foal Holsteiner, Z, or KWPN? Cassini I usually makes a substantial mare with a lot of bone. Do you have a picture of her? Is the mare in the US? If she's here, you still have great choices, just not as many as in Europe.

I really like Corrado I but he's a very big boy and is out of a Capitol I mother. Your mare is a Capitol I granddaughter. It's done, but I think you have to give it a hard look. (Karen is getting some good Corrado I frozen semen this year.)

How good are your mare's legs? Has she been approved for breeding... if so what were her scores? Would you say she is a modern type or more the older type? Do you know what her mother looks like and what else her mother has produced?

Your choices are all wonderful stallions but, rather than going with a C-Line stallion, it might be interesting to consider a Q-Line or an L-Line stallion (maybe Limbus), or an A-Line (maybe Atlantic, full brother to In Style). I like Lord Z, too. Love the Cottage Son in his pedigree, but he may have some temperament issues.

Some of the stallions you have listed are grandsons of Capitol I. In addition to Corrado I, you have the grandsons Cobra and Eurocommerce Naples. Again, you see this linebreeding to Capitol I in Germany and Reece has a foal coming in the US this spring by Campesino out of a Cassini II mare. It just depends on phenotype.

Corland and Cordalme Z are both by Cor de la Bryere and your mare has three crosses to him. Burggraaf is out of a Corde mother. Would you want that much Corde in your foal's pedigree? Lord Calando is interesting, the Corde is a little farther back in his pedigree.

These are just musings. It would be necessary to know more details about your mare to give a worthwhile opinion.

Here are some approved stallions from the motherline 5964. Notice the Harlita branch. You can see your mare's mother is full sister to Caretello B who also has many approved stallion sons.

Caretello B, Db., * Holst. 88, v. Caretino u. Victoria V v. Calypso IV u. Harlita v. Wahnfried, PB Bay.

Caribo GL, Db., * Holst. 80, v. Calypso II u. Harlita v. Wahnfried-Fokus II, PB Rhld.

Lavarius, B., * Holst. 87, v. Landgraf I u. Orfe v. Locarno-Sawara xx, Holst. Verb., PB Sanh.

Lord Looping, B., * Holst. 92, v. Lord u. Susa v. Landmeister u. Garbo v. Wahnfried, PB DK

Quasimodo, Db., * Holst. 99, v. Quinar u. Zilli v. Calypso II-Wahnfried, PB Thür.

Sartre, B., * Holst. 88, v. Silvester u. Nancy v. Convent u. Harlita v. Wahnfried, PB Westf.

Silberpfeil, B., * Holst. 82, v. Silvester u. Nancy v. Convent u. Harlita v. Wahnfried, PB SUI

[ShowjumpersUSA]

Bump... loking for more opinions

[busybee]

I don't have any suggestions but she sounds like a great mare.

[EquineLVR]

SJUSA - I agree - I think I would be careful with the C-line - I would go towards Quinar or even like a Quidam's Rubin who ties in the Landgraf. Lord Z and Lord Calando are both good choices.

I like the idea of Atlantic too.. What about Autobahn? He is at Silver Creek - frozen only but he is amazing.

Mezcalero might be interesting for her too.

Do you have any pictures?

[ShowjumpersUSA]

SJUSA - I agree - I think I would be careful with the C-line - I would go towards Quinar or even like a Quidam's Rubin who ties in the Landgraf. Lord Z and Lord Calando are both good choices.

I like the idea of Atlantic too.. What about Autobahn? He is at Silver Creek - frozen only but he is amazing.

Mezcalero might be interesting for her too.

Do you have any pictures?


She says she wants a Holsteiner stallion.. I think she means by blood, not registry... but not sure.

Quinar did exceedingly well on this motherline. i.e., Quasimodo.

Quidam's Ruben is very interesting.

Autobahn, unfortunately, failed to pass his stallion test.... hard to imagine!

Mezcalero is Holsteiner by petition, not by blood.

Lord Calando is high on my list. I seem to have a nagging thought about his temperament though... not sure about that.

What do you think of Landlord? He might be off the radar a bit, but he's had good production.

What do you think of Limbus?

[ThreeDays]

I like the Limbus suggestion - but it depends on the mare herself. On paper it sounds like something she might be needing - but don't know how the mare in question is.

Not sure if he will bring the super engine and scopey jump she's looking for. But if you were trying to breed a broodmare it would be a good choice I think.

[sixpoundfarm]

Lord Z has certainly put some nice foals on the ground!

I also am interested in Lord Calando.
Maybe Zangershield will elaborate.

[EquineLVR]

She says she wants a Holsteiner stallion.. I think she means by blood, not registry... but not sure.

Quinar did exceedingly well on this motherline. i.e., Quasimodo.

Quidam's Ruben is very interesting.

Autobahn, unfortunately, failed to pass his stallion test.... hard to imagine!

Mezcalero is Holsteiner by petition, not by blood.

Lord Calando is high on my list. I seem to have a nagging thought about his temperament though... not sure about that.

What do you think of Landlord? He might be off the radar a bit, but he's had good production.

What do you think of Limbus?

HOLY COW - I did not know that Autobahn failed his test I cant believe that.. what a bummer. :(


What about Lordanos or Lux Z, Lupicor or Numero Uno?

[goodmorning]

I know of like the Quinar suggestion - when I think of Cassini and Carentino I think there must be plenty of 'jump' but some blood to help have a more ride-able, handy, and scopier horse. I have ridden a couple by Cassini (though they were sales horses coming through the barn so not sure about stamm, ect), and while they were lovely, they tended to be a little too big & heavy for my liking - could walk over a 4' course no prob, and easy easy as far as mind...JMO, I'm sure some of you jumper breeders have a more educated opinion. That being said, I am probably going to be breeding to a Cassini son this year, so don't take it the wrong way ;) How about something with some Sandro/Sacramento Song blood considering the success of that with the Capitol blood? I appreciate these discussions, love hearing about lines and what they produce from those who are both educated & willing to share :yes:

[busybee]

HOLY COW - I did not know that Autobahn failed his test I cant believe that.. what a bummer. :(


What about Lordanos or Lux Z, Lupicor or Numero Uno?

Was Autobahn's score close to passing? Can you retest a stallion that doesn't pass?

[sixpoundfarm]

Autobahn can still be proven thru Sport, or qualifying for the Bundeschampionate.

SJ66 would be the best to consult on him.

[HilaryHrsRdr]

I really like Contender- I found a Contender x Silvester son "CHAMPAGNE SUPERNOVA" but he is very young and could not find many details on him.

Also South Pacific, but I do not know if frozen semen is still avaliable.

What about Chin Chin?

I have noticed a few stallions that would be Cento x Cassini for example.... wouldn't that be considered too close?

What would be advantages and disadvantages to breeding with another C-line stallion?

[grayfox]

I think South Pacific is available, I thought he was like 5000.

[ThreeDays]

No - I checked in on South Pacific very recently and he is not available. They have very limited frozen for their mares only.

[arizonard]

I like Limbus too for this mare. We looked at him fairly closely for our Cassini II filly.

I think a Contender son would be interesting too.

[ShowjumpersUSA]

Which Contender son do you like? I think the two best Contender son's in the US could be Cubito and Con Caletto. I don't know if the Siegerhengst, Cubito, has any foals on the ground but I know Con Caletto does... and they're exceptionally nice. (I have a Con Caletto coming out of my Ramiro mare... very excited about that one).

It's awfully hard to take this thread to the next level when we have no picture of the mare and know so little about her. Any suggestions here are being made pretty much in the dark.

Bayhawk and I have a three year old Cassini I mare in Germany we are debating about breeding to Contender or preparing for sport. Haven't decided yet. Our mare meets the conditions to be bred to Contender, but we're still mulling it over.

You know, in Germany, Contender and Cassini I are rationed.

ETA: Forgot to mention Capone, if you're in the US, he might be one to consider, although I know nothing about his production. He has international scope... but I haven't seen any of his babies.

[Bayhawk]

Showjumpers and Three Days........FULL of information. You go girls !

[HilaryHrsRdr]

I do not have to go only with stallions in the US. I am open to stallions around the world. What might be a few other good Contender sons??

Also I am curious about a mare being line bred- is it ok if the foal has the same granddad and great-granddad? Example: Cento x Cassini I ? I have seen several C-lines line bred this close. Pros and Cons??

[ShowjumpersUSA]

Awwww shucks, Bayhawk. You're making me blush!

Meanwhile, it does make a difference what the OP's intentions are with the mare.... are you wanting to produce breeding stock or for sport? If you're in Europe you have some other choices.... if you're in the US, other choices... it matters where you intend to register the foal. You can use an available (frozen semen) stallion who is a Holsteiner but is not a Verband stallion if you're going Z or KWPN... we can be more help if we know these details.

If your mare is in Europe... maybe the Cantus son, Cero.... or Acolord might be good.

What do you think Reece?

[ThreeDays]

Can you tell us more about your mare's 'type' and what she is needing?

Based on your mare's heritage its a no brainer if you can get your hands on good semen -

I'd look to Corrado, Limbus, or Bachus

Seems as though your mare is very well bred and favorably postitioned in her family.

The Calypso IV mare 'Victoria' is the mother of Caretello B (by Caretino) - so your mare's dam is full sibling to this approved stallion. She is also full sibling to the mare Diana XVIII (v. Caretino out of the mare Victoria). Diana has produced the ISH 'Chester' v. Corrado (ridden by Thorsten Wittenberg). She also produced Kora an ISH when bred to Bachas. She then produces Luna v. Limbus - who qualified for the BundesChampionat 2006.

It would only make sense to repeat what has worked for the family. Unfortunantly if your mare is already here in the US Corrado and Limbus semen quality and success rates are poor.

I'm forgetting if the Limbus is even available but the new batch of Corrado semen is still questionable but I guess its waging better odds than previous collections.

Obviously the succuess of this stamm is all originating from the mare Harlita (v. Wahnfried) and from her descends the approved stallions Silberpfeil (v. Silvester), Caribo (v. Calypso II), Caretello B (v. Caretino), Sarte (v. Silvester), Quasimodo (v. Quinar) and the grand prix jumpers Careless, Kora, and Carossa.

So as a back up for fresh semen I would look at Quinar while he is still here and available in the US. Karen Reid carries the semen for Corrado and Limbus and also stands Quinar. I would talk to her about the semen she has and ask about how she works 'plan B' and using fresh semen when the frozen is unsuccessful.

Best Wishes - Sounds like a wonderful mare!!

[Bayhawk]

Awwww shucks, Bayhawk. You're making me blush!

Meanwhile, it does make a difference what the OP's intentions are with the mare.... are you wanting to produce breeding stock or for sport? If you're in Europe you have some other choices.... if you're in the US, other choices... it matters where you intend to register the foal. You can use an available (frozen semen) stallion who is a Holsteiner but is not a Verband stallion if you're going Z or KWPN... we can be more help if we know these details.

If your mare is in Europe... maybe the Cantus son, Cero.... or Acolord might be good.

What do you think Reece?

I think I want this mare ! Really nice motherline , twice Caletto II up front ...... beautiful breeding ! Would love to see this mare.

[Bayhawk]

Also, Diana Kilmer owns a stallion from this same motherline in Northern Va. His name is Chosen and he is by Carpaccio / Landgraf / Calypso IV / Whanfried stamm 5964. This is a really good motherline.

[ThreeDays]

So I guess Carpaccio would be another good suggestion.

[ThreeDays]

Oops - maybe not with Caretino doubled up

[EquineLVR]

I do not have to go only with stallions in the US. I am open to stallions around the world. What might be a few other good Contender sons??

Also I am curious about a mare being line bred- is it ok if the foal has the same granddad and great-granddad? Example: Cento x Cassini I ? I have seen several C-lines line bred this close. Pros and Cons??

I love Contendro - you might want to look at him. You would double the Calypso blood - with II and IV.

[Bayhawk]

I love Contendro - you might want to look at him. You would double the Calypso blood - with II and IV.

Good idea but she would need to make sure that her mare is long lined and framey enough for Contendro. He has a very short and compact topline.

There was a premium stallion in Holstein this year by Cassiano out of Contendro's mother. He was super fancy but he was lacking in long lines , so this is a trait that is transmitting thru Contendro's motherline.

The HV bought him and it's a safe bet this stallion will be bred to really rectangular mares.

[HilaryHrsRdr]

Thank you for everybody's suggestions!!! It has been helpful in my search for Mr. Right!!! I have narrowed it down to these stallions:
Quidam de Revel, Quidam's Ruben, Numero Uno, Lord Calando, Darco, or Argentinus.
Have I made good choices?!

[tri]

Well, Darco and Argentinus are both heavier, older style horses, especially Darco.

Darco is dead and is known not to freeze very well so you would really be rolling the dice. If you want Darco, you might consider his son Parco (still frozen but good frozen) or his grandson Simsalabim who is actually here in the U.S. and is probably underutilized and underrated.

[Paula]

Another one you might think about, though I don't know if Saied will sell the semen, is the Holsteiner stallion Sabotage. I was just talking to Saied and he does have about 17 frozen breedings left for Sabotage who is Silbersee lines. Sabotage throws incredibly consistant hind end jumping power. He has a number of approved stallion sons who are also quite nice. He was Holsteiner approved but I imagine there would be some sort of activation fee (he died a number of years ago).

[HilaryHrsRdr]

I have heard that Darco does throw really heavy horses. The reason I chose him is because he is known to throw jumping machines and I love the stallion Cavalor Winningmood (Darco x Cassini I).
I like Numero Uno because he would bring in Landgraf from Libero H as well as Lord. I think Quidam de Revel would also a good choice... Thoughts?! :)

[HilaryHrsRdr]

Autobahn was gelded and is for sale now. Ad is on warmbloods-for-sale.com

[Dan]

Just saw Winningmood on Satellite TV. Just an awesome stallion. Very good rideability combined with a super jump. Anyone thinking about breeding to him?