For those of you who ride ponies

[grayarabpony]

Bear with me, this is part question, part vent.

The question part:
What make(s) of saddles do you ride in?

I have a Half Arabian who uses a wide Wintec tree and has a short Arab back. I weigh 112 pounds so I should be able to fit into a size 16, right?

The vent part:
I just called a tack shop about new Prestiges - $3-4K. Yeah, right, I'll pay that much for a saddle for a pony -- when pigs fly. That's just too much at this point. If we were showing 2nd level and thought we could make it to Prix St. George, but, that sure isn't happening yet and may never happen.

I'm calling to call another tack shop Monday, when the saddle fitter comes back from vacation, but I've tried her twice already. Perhaps if I can tell her exactly what I need -- whatever that is....

Another question:
Who here has tried a custom made saddle? How much was that? I figured that would be at least $4K.

Thanks for reading. I hate shopping.

[welshrwonderful]

I have a Welsh pony stalion competing at 1st level and I just bought him a used Niedersuss Symphony for a "mere" $900.00.

I also have a Stubben Aramis which was $750.00 off Ebay and the pony competed in that all last summer in training and 1st level.
My other Stubben (Romanus) is the same size etc and also fits him and "only" cost me $550.00 off ebay.

I will be selling both Stubbens soon as I really dont need three saddles and only one trainer riding him and her own Niedersuss fits him just as well also.
I would never be able to afford anything over $1,000.00, I was very lucky to get the Niedersuss, I got a very fair price for it I think but I have been looking for 6 months now.

Ebay is a good place to get a bargain but I always ask the seller to allow me a trial period, if they say yes, then I go ahead and buy it knowing that I am not going to be stuck with a saddle I can't use. It's worth the 30.00 shipping charges to do this.

My trainer is about the same weight as you and about 5ft 3ins. She also has a Hennig saddle which she said cost a huge fortune as it was sized for her and her horses, I will ask her how much that cost her and let you know, I think she mentioned around 4-5K.

Good luck
Carolyn

[Ambrey]

I also just bought a used Neidersuss for my 1/2 welsh hony (14hh of pony with an extra 4" of wither). Gorgeous thing, built pretty small too. And about the same price as Welsh above.

He's the opposite of wide, though- the saddle is quite narrow in the front, but wider in the back and looks quite comfy on him.

eta: I just remembered I found this around the same time we got the other one:

http://www.saddlesource.com/proddetail.asp?prod=D611

[exvet]

I have 6 welsh cobs, 2 arabs and a retired swedish warmblood. My welsh cobs range in size from 13 hands to 15.2 hands. My Arabs range in size from 14 hands to 14.2 hands. I am 5'2" and weigh 106 on a good day, 110 on a bad day. I ride in nothing smaller than a 17.5 inch seat cause I have a longer thigh. Here are my saddles, all 17.5 inch and their respective costs.

Niedersuss Symphonie wide tree purchased 9 years ago used (one year old) for $950
Niedersuss Olympic wide tree purchased last year used (one year old, looked new) for $750 *havanna brown so had been for sale for a long time
Wintec Isabel W purchased 2 years ago used (looked new, supposedly ridden in twice) for $750
Keith Bryan Santis purchased new had custom fitted to my welsh cob - $2400

My Arabs are ridden in either the Wintec Isabel (14 hand mare) or the Niedersuss Symphonie (14.2 hand gelding)

My 13 hand section C welsh cob is ridden in the Wintec Isabel or the Keith Bryan

My other welsh cobs are ridden in one of the Niedersuss saddles or the Keith Bryan.

My guys/gals are showing training, first, second and Prix St. George.

[grayarabpony]

Thanks guys. You're making me feel much better. I know saddles are expensive but .... the prices you're quoting sound much more reasonable.

[Beasmom]

My now-deceased Arab (14.1 HH) had a semi-custom Neidersuss/Hippostar (wide tree) that cost $1750. It was basically a Symphonie that had been custom fit for Guy and me. That saddle has since been reflocked to fit my 14.3 ISR mare, and then again to fit my 16.1 Hannosaurus gelding. Best money I ever spent on a saddle. It fits almost everything!

The ISR mare now uses an old Albion Comfort (wide tree) that cost me $700 used and another $200 to have the stuffing redone.

Also look at Lovatt & Ricketts saddles for Arabs and Arab crosses. The hoop shaped trees that most British built saddles use tend to fit Arabs well. Wintecs and Bates saddles have trees that are shaped more like an inverted V. Better for narrow-withered horses.

[slc2]

Ok...so...buy an expensive saddle only if one is going to a higher level???

Why is it so outrageous that a new saddle is expensive? All leather hand made products are very expensive these days.

Buy a used saddle if you think a new one is too much.

[hoser1]

I have 2 dressage ponies, a roly poly Andalusian cross who is 14.2, and a round but sort of "tubular" shaped Morgan. I'm 5'1" and about 105#. The Morgan has been the harder one to fit. I tried a Niedersuss which did not work, Stubben Juventus D (junior) that I liked and seemed to fit but the pony did not care for. I tried a whole bunch of others but finally settled on the Prestige Lucky - their youth dressage saddle in a med/wide tree. I am pretty happy with it and it fits both ponies. It is a 16" but rides bigger to me. It is less than half the price of the "adult" Prestige models and of very good quality.

[Sakura]

I have a Passier GG (http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/203204/product_review_passier_grand_gilbert.html) for my Arabians (my stallion is 14.1hh and uses a wide tree)... other than Arabian Saddle Co. (http://www.arabiansaddle.com/) saddles I have (personally) not found another make of saddle that fits my horses so well.

[medhorse]

I have a 14.2 Welsh Pony/TB cross who was the most impossible fit. I am also a tough fit, 5'2", 110, and require a short flap. I ended up biting finding a 16 1/2 wide tree saddle, a passier, and had it fitted to his back. There are many deals out there currently with saddle fitters who have taken saddles in on trade vs. tack stores, e-bay etc.. I did however, purchase a custom saddle (Albion) and it was about $2,900-3,500 (depends upon the leather). I traded in a 17 County wide which she still has. If you want to contact the saddler to see if she may have something for you or even my old saddle please contact Kate at Dutchess Saddlery or one of the other saddle fitters.

[fivesocks]

I have a 16" Prestige for my half welsh who is 13.3hh. I wasn't swimming in the 17" saddle, but we decided we needed a 16 because the 17 just looked too big on his short back. I got mine new, but it was not 3-4K! It was still expensive though!! That was about 6 years ago that....could have something to do with the slightly lower price.

[CLB15]

Is the issue the cost of new saddles, spending a lot of money "just on a pony", concerned about it fitting you, a combination of concerns?
If you want a smaller (16-17") saddle, how about the stubben, passier or courbette youth saddles? Adding "youth" infront of a saddle name seems to make it drop a few $hundred.
If the prestige saddle you were quoted at was $3-4K but it's a size & model that works for you & pony, look around for a used one. I picked up a $$$ saddle that was on consignment for less then 1/3 the price of it new, and it was basically new (not a single mark on the billets or flaps). I needed a non-guessetted saddle for horse and short flaps for me, and it's ideal.
If you're looking at what type of saddles other people have found to fit ponies (regardless of new/used, youth/adult, expensive/cheap, etc.), I've known ponies who used wintecs, bates, amerigos, passiers and kieffers. I know a few "full figured" horses with duetts, prestiges, stubbens, collegiates, etc.

[Daydream Believer]

I'm riding my CS horses which are large pony/small horse size in a Fhoenix (partial tree) from Enlightened Equitation in the UK. Not cheap but very versatile and fits more horses than a standard tree due to the tree part being in the cantle only.

[SapeloApp]

And you might consider a treeless saddle in the petite size (Ansur) or another brand of treeless. I've had good "sizing" with my Ansur with my Haflingers (can you say 55-gallon drums?) and my drafter-cross and my slab-sided spottie and, yes, a couple of Arabians. One Arabian the saddle did NOT fit, but it wasn't my horse and there was no convincing the owner who was trying the saddle that she had the saddle sitting too far forward...which could explain why she was having such a difficult time finding any saddle to fit her steed. Sort of like trying to get a bra to fit by wearing it above the protruberances, eh?

Candace

[Beasmom]

Lovatt & Ricketts makes the Arabian Saddle Co. saddles, BTW.

[grayarabpony]

Wow, this is a lot of new possibilities to ponder. Thank you everyone.

I'd definitely like to set a limit of 2K, so I will be looking at used as well as new saddles. One of the tack shops I contacted sells used as well as new, so that really should open up more possibilities.

One of the reasons I'd like to limit the price is that I will probably also need a new saddle for my big horse, and I don't want to spend most of the money I've put in the bank the last few months! I'll do what I need to do to make the horses comfortable, but I always hate spending a lot of money. We're on a fast track with our mortgage and have had to build up our farm from scratch, so we've been spending a lot of money. Well, that's horses.

It will be interesting to see how this pony does if I can get her a saddle she likes. She's basically got a quiet, sweet temperment, but she is hot and sensitive. If she gets upset about something she spooks and gets fast, fast, fast. Our biggest problem has been inconsistency -- she'll be brilliant, and then she won't listen at all. I think -- in fact I'm 100% certain -- that my current saddle creates pressure points on her back that bother her.

She's had the last 3 months off -- I actually need to get her back into shape a bit with long lining before saddle fitting her -- she can gain as fast as you can say Jack Robinson.

DDB, how does the partial tree ride compared to a regular tree? I've heard some people say they find treeless saddles hard with a horse with a lot of suspension.

[Sudi's Girl]

Bear with me, this is part question, part vent.

I have a Half Arabian who uses a wide Wintec tree and has a short Arab back. I weight 112 pounds so I should be able to fit into a size 16, right?



Not necessarily. I'm 108 and need a 17.5. I've squeezed into a 16 before, but it's really too small for my longish legs...

[Dawn J-L]

My Arabs (some of which are pony sized) are all extremely wide backed. A hoop tree has provided the best fit for them. I have two customized Black Country Eloquence X saddles with hoop trees and upswept panels, but they cost over 2 grand apiece (approx. $2800). Duett makes saddles with hoop trees for considerably less. Prior to the hoop tree, I rode in an Ansur because none of the many saddles I tried fit well (not Passier, not Neidersuss, not Arabian saddle Co, etc.). Saddle fitters could not find me a saddle that fit my horses without slipping/pinching until the hoop trees became available. Not all Arabs or all ponies are shaped for a hoop tree, but for those who are, a regular tree never just sits well no matter how "wide". (I believe that Passier now has a hoop tree available on some models)

[poltroon]

I was talking to a saddle fitter about a jumping saddle for my pony and thinking that I would need to go back to a little shorter seat, and he strongly recommended NOT doing that, because in his experience, riding in a saddle that's slightly too small will end up pushing the rider's weight behind the balance point of the saddle, which will actually force the pony to carry the weight further back than a saddle that is the correct size for the rider.

I'm riding my 13.3 pony in a 17" Mansion House dressage saddle and a 17 1/2 Berney Brothers jumping saddle.

[grayarabpony]

Not necessarily. I'm 108 and need a 17.5. I've squeezed into a 16 before, but it's really too small for my longish legs...

I'm talking pommel to cantle.

My jumping saddle that I used on my TB I believe is 16 1/2 -- Good Lord I really need to measure it....:o

[grayarabpony]

This is the pony in question -- she does have a wither but is round, like a beach ball.

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii155/sweetbay103/digital%20photos/Horses/IMGP2990p.jpg

As you can see she's quite short-backed -- she wears a 60" blanket and is 13.2 hands.

[Daydream Believer]

DDB, how does the partial tree ride compared to a regular tree? I've heard some people say they find treeless saddles hard with a horse with a lot of suspension.

I think it is the closest to a standard saddle that you can get in a "treeless" style saddle. The seat helps you maintain your position with a real twist and I've never sat in a more comfortable saddle. I have no trouble sitting the biggest trot my stallion can give me in it! :cool:

I've ridden in the Ansurs and they don't come close to one of these saddles in rider support.

[Shortstroke]

I am 5'1", 114 lbs. and have a French Riding Pony (part Anglo-Arab) with a wither and a short, flat back. I bought a new Stubben Juventus on Ebay for $900.00 and it is perfect. I think it has a 32cm gullet. It is either 16.5 or 17 - whichever is standard.

[Tilly]

I'm 5'4" and 120 lbs, and have a 13.2 hh rather round little Welsh X with a funny back.
She has a Wintec Pro saddle with a 16 1/2" seat. It fits her very well. :yes:

[Ambrey]

When you are trying out saddles, remember that english saddle measurement is from the logo tack to the center of cantle, so will be larger than the pommel to cantle measurement.

Also, dressage saddles tend to be larger than CC for similar fit comfort, and deep seated saddles need to be larger than shallow saddles.

My mom who rides our pony is 5'3" and about 120 lbs and I think the just-shy-of-17" neidersuss is going to be perfect for her. Fitting my fat ass into it until her ankle heals is going to be a joy, though.

[poltroon]

I'm talking pommel to cantle.

My jumping saddle that I used on my TB I believe is 16 1/2 -- Good Lord I really need to measure it....:o

Since the whole saddle is usually scaled, the right size saddle is not just a function of your bum but also the length of your thigh. Tall people need larger saddles to accommodate their long thighs. It also seems to me that saddle fitters are now advising to go bigger when in doubt, which is different than the advice I remember from the past.

Seat sizes don't translate well between disciplines. 16 1/2 is an average jumping saddle but smallish for a dressage saddle, which seem to most often be 17" or 17 1/2". The taller round cantle adds another 1/2" easily even on a seat that is otherwise of similar shape.

And of course, since different saddle makers shape the seat and place the front nail differently, that can also affect the seat size.

[grayarabpony]

I'm not tall, so a larger saddle isn't an issue for me in that regard. :lol:

My jumping saddle has a fairly deep seat, so I'll measure and see how much actual room it has, and how much smaller I can go, in a dressage saddle.

[goodpony]

We have two young ponies 14.1 and 14.2. We bought a Schleese Wave which is shorter in both the flaps and panels....also has an adjustable tree. My husbands Devoucoux Chiberta also seems to fit them well. We also have an old Passier Comet that fit the older one really well till he UMM outgrew it. I think all of these saddles can be found used. I've heard the Black Country Saddles are really nice for broad/shorter backed individuals and has good clearance in the channel.

The Wave has been especially nice for the young ones, but it has a wider twist than I like. BUT as the person who helps me with our dressage says.....you have to ride what ya got. Ive tried other saddles as well, but keep coming back to the wave for both of them....I like how it fits them across the back without bridging.

[Ambrey]

The Symphonie has a pretty narrow twist, quite a bit narrower than my Infinity.