Spinoff of "airs" post: Why humungous WBs?

[Melelio]

Why, if it doen't need to jump, do dressage riders seem to gravitate to the huge-mongous horses? Do you really NEED an 18hh monster? Isn't it more difficult in the itty bitty dressage rings to perform enough of a pretty movement (or is that the point? ;) )

I still don't get Junior Hunter riders needing huge horses, either, other than making the distances (maybe those should be shortened a touch), but Dressage? Why? Really just curious....

Personally, I like my horses under 15hh :yes::cool:

[Trevelyan96]

Somehow I think people have just gotten into the frame of mind that bigger=more impressive. Large stride = quality gait. I'm in the minority, as I also prefer smaller horses between 14.3 and 15.2. But then again, I'm only 4'11", so getting on anything over 16H is a challenge, even with a mounting block. :lol::lol::lol:

[Perfect Pony]

Oh comon, don't spoil my fun. It's so entertaining watching the middle aged ladies trying to do dressage on their 6-figure 17hh GP mount that they cannot get to trot...

[atr]

Not around here... Just not that many huge horses at shows, or in the training barns I have been in--most around 16-16.2, and mostly a variety of breeds. There are a few very lovely warmbloods, but plenty of "off-breeds" out there having fun.

[FriesianX]

I think more and more people are realizing bigger isn't better! And smaller horses can have big movement. I show a 15.3 hand stallion - he's a big mover, but he's not a tall horse. And I've had great luck even on a little 15 hand Morgan - a big mover with a big ego, but a little guy.

I actually had a buyer try one of my youngsters and decide he was TOO big at 16.1 hands - that was very refreshing. She ended up buying his shorter brother.

And smaller Warmbloods ARE available - and are often priced a little more reasonably. Other smaller horses can do quite well too. The last big show we showed at, a 15.2 hand Friesian dominated most of the 2nd level stuff, my 15.3 hand stallion placed 2nd in the 3rd level classes we showed in, and several other smaller horses were winning their classes too. I think many people are beginning to realize smaller horses can be easier to ride. Of course, that isn't consistently true, but in general, if the rider can get their leg on the horse, and can connect it back to front, they're going to have much better success riding that horse!

[kimberly gorham]

Simple answer for me! He is 18hds of pure crazy sometimes and I love it! I'm 5'3 on a good day. He is not for the faint of heart so the price was right....

[Aven]

Back in the day when you went overseas to buy a warmblood you wanted to impress people back home. Not everyone can appreciate a great looking trot.. but even the uneducated can appreciate humongous!

LOL

Often bigger horses look more impressive. That big trot is even bigger! I personally like 16.2ish big enough to make me look good, still small enough to make the movements easy.

[kookicat]

It keeps the trainers in a job. ;)

(Well, someone has to ride these beasts!)

[SisterToSoreFoot]

It's a style thing, like anything. I also don't get the obsession with "knee action" and rolling, ankle-flipping movers. Too many dressage horses look "hitchy" with all their knee action in front (and dragging behind, of course). The flatter-kneed, sweeping motion that comes more from the shoulder (and not the upperleg) is no less correct, just a different look. That's why I love watching high level "off" breeds--its shows the range of how a horse can look doing the movements correctly.

There was someone writing in dressage today that said a quarterhorse could not make it up the levels because it lacked the knee and hock "action." She did not say that the horse lacked the engagement, or the uphill build, but the "action." Snapping up the hocks or knees is not the same as engagement--and if dressage is about "action," then why aren't Hackneys and other high steppers more in demand?

Its frustrating to me when style and correctness are presented as one and the same.

Sorry for the off topic rant.

[mzm farm]

I ride 14.1 to 18hh and the 14.1 does not ride that different from 18hh - they are both very well trained. I am not looking forward to hopping off the 18hh boy with frozen toes in winter though!:eek:

Wish more people liked the smaller sizes - when they are younger, they seem so much more agile and under themselves. I have a few youngsters in the 15 -16 size and they are GREAT! Did do well at shows too - scores in the 70s. Does not seem like too many people looking in that size though. I can't figure out why. I am 5'4" and find it a very good size for me.

Like I said, I think a good horse is a good horse, regardless of size and color.

[crewgirl34]

Here is a little story that sums it up pretty well:

I overheard two people at my barn talking about a smallish horse they were trying to sell. One woman, with great disdain in her voice, said, "I've had a lot of calls about her, but everyone balks at her size. It's just sickening that all anyone cares about is size." She then walks out to her vehicle, a Ford Excursion.

[Murphy's Mom]

I recently saw an ad for a SWB that was apparently only considered a suitable mount for a junior or small adult due to her size - 16 hh. Hmm, my SWB is barely 16 hh and she is plenty big for my 5'9" robust frame. On the other hand, my friend sent her 15 hh paint stallion to a local reining trainer. The trainer considers her horse HUGE and is the biggest horse he's ever ridden. :lol:

[Dussel]

Hi all,
Ok I have a 18 hand Oldenbrug. It was not by choice. He was 17 h when I bought him. I did not set out to have this 18 hand horse. So I think their a lot of riders like me out there. I am the only trainer of this horse. I have been riding for 35 years now. I take lesson on him every week. Sometimes three in a row. The thing find that is hard is getting collection. He has a big stride in every gate. Now that we are going into third level It is very hard for him to collect. I am told the bigger they are it is harder for them. Also you have to be sure that they move off your legs. They have to be so much more movable than a smaller horse.
This is a lot of work! The next one I get will be around 16.2 or under. They are easier to move around. I did not set out for buying that very big warmblood. Just want to be clear on that. But I love this horse! He is very kind. He puts up with me. I have herd Debbie McDonald say if you think you need a 18 hand horse to do dressage be my guess. It is much hard than you think.
I don't even think that for jumpers they have to be that big. My horse is out of a GP Jumper in Germany. I was told by a jumper trainer in Orange county that my horse would be to big and heavy for jumping.
My 2 Cents :)

[Equus_girl]

My first horse is a 16'3 NZ WB, who is massive. Trainer bought him in NZ without me seeing the horse in life, and it took me a while, being a green rider to get over his size and I am almost 6ft myself. I was and still is intimidated by his height. He was trained in dressage but his heart was in jumping and he made an amazing head-turning hunter. My second horse is a 5yo Holsteiner with a narrow TB build who is barely 16h and he is in dressage training. I have never felt so comfortable and relaxed riding him. I have to admit, I still think I might look funny on him, but who cares.

[WBLover]

Not for me, man!! My 16.1H guy is PERFECT for me. My rule of thumb is that something around the same height in hands as you are tall is perfect. I'm 5'5" so he's the same height as me, and I feel like we are just the right size for each other.

Of course you can go shorter or taller than your height, but proportionately I find that my rule of thumb seems to ring true.

I really don't see that many behemouths at shows anymore, I think that's a dying trend, and people are breeding and buying smaller now.

[dbadaro]

i have a 15.2hh standardbred-not your typical dressage horse! BUT he has beautiful movement and is just the right size for me. i'm 5'6" and a little "thick" as some people would put it ;-)

[Ambrey]

There is a YR at my barn who rides a 17.3hh horse. The other day I saw her riding another horse and I asked her what kind of pony she is- turns out the other horse she was riding was almost 16hh tall!

My brain has been totally warped by big horses! So has hers, I think, because she commented that she felt "huge" on such a small horse (she's petite).

And that poor horse was totally dwarfed in the dressage ring.

Now I know why I keep insisting on calling my 15hh hony a pony!

[Auventera Two]

My horses are 14, 14.1, and 15. I'll take a sports car over a semi truck anyday. :cool: If you're built right, nobody cares if you're only 15 hands http://www.hphoofcare.com/PADRONAbath2.jpg

[Ambrey]

My horses are 14, 14.1, and 15. I'll take a sports car over a semi truck anyday. :cool: If you're built right, nobody cares if you're only 15 hands http://www.hphoofcare.com/PADRONAbath2.jpg

Baby got back!

I drive a little station wagon (Mazda). I traded in a minivan for it and will never go bigger again (I might go smaller, though).

My horse, on the other hand...

Definitely more "mack truck" than sports car, although he is turbocharged ;)

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x182/estarianne/PICT0030.jpg

[camohn]

I am a leggy 5'8 and 16.1 to 16.2 is my preferred size though I have one runty filly that looks like she will end up a stocky 15.2 (so will still probably take up my leg) and I also look OK on a 17H horse. What I have here is the 6 YO (a little under 16.1) , the one that will probably be 15.2 and her brother that looks like he will be 16.2.....more what I was aiming for! And yes, I have have several teenage twigs (the under 120 pounds set) come try the 3 YO gelding I have for sale...he was a little under 16.1/should mature to 16.2 and was turned down because he was too small. Granted he isn't filled out yet......but both parents were tankers for build so I don't expect he will stay too scrawny...I do not get why a 16.2 horse (16.1 if he did happen to stop growing at 3...) that will likely end up with a beefy build is too small for little people!!

[amm2cd]

:lol:
I think that in Dressage, it's all about "the look".
Now, everyone covets a slightly different look... And if you're going to spend the money, you might as well have a horse who you think is beautiful. (Too small might be the polite way of saying that they wouldnt want to see that head over the stall every day;))


I show a 14.2h foundation quarterhorse (not a lick of TB to be seen) and a 17.2 Dutch (Roemer) gelding. They have very different feel, and they are both fun to ride.
My little sister has a 16.1h Armin gelding (he's the spitting image of his sire) and a 17.3h dutch (Lucky Light) gelding.

Thats four different horses with very different body types, none of which have ever been knocked for body type. Three of the four are very competitive at and above third level (the quarterhorse is four, give him time! :D:D)

[mickeydoodle]

My Dutch warmblood is 15.3

[Hat And Boots]

I'd love to find myself a gigantic horse! Or at least one that is gigantic and affordable. I am 5'11" and sorta feel better on a bigger horse. I have ridden an 18 hand horse and agree I am a bit more challenged as a rider. Especially since I am mostly a beginner still. But I still prefer the ride with all the big movement. Also, it taught me a lot. (Most importantly, the fall is greater from an 18h horse). I always feel as though I am disproportionate to a 16.3h or less horse, but in the end it is my riding that will determine how well we do, not the horse's size.

[kkj]

It is not just the height that matters but the barrel, bone, neck set etc. I have a 17 hand horse who is very modern type, all warmblood but only a medium tree saddle. I am 5'10" and I honestly look a little big on this horse. I also have a 16.1 hand horse which takes up more leg. However, the first horse has a very well set on neck and is very uphill in movement. There just isn't quite enough room for my legs. I have ridden a lot of smaller horse that are dull, heavy or take a stronger rider. I have ridden a lot of tall modern warmbloods who are super responisive and light. A small person could ride them with no problem if they had a good seat and subtle aids. You don't need to be a man; you just need to know how to ride.

[quietann]

I don't really get it either... but I am 5'1" and short-legged and ride a 15 hand Morgan :) No, she doesn't move like a big WB, but she's a show-off and gets peoples' attention. Helps that she's Palomino, too :) The other horse I ride is a chunky 16.1 and he's really too big for me. He's like a big old Cadillac, and she's like a little sportscar. Folks who are used to WBs who've ridden her are pretty amazed at the contrast with how quick and responsive she is.

Luckily I am with a trainer who *prefers* WBs but totally does not mind if her clients prefer something else. We had a HUGE 18.3 hand monster WB at the barn until recently, and he was troublesome just because he was so gigantic. Trainer's assistant, who's 6 feet tall and has legs that go on forever, liked riding him, though. These days she goes from the 17.2 hand gelding she's leasing to my little mare, and I know she prefers the bigger guy, but I can't really blame her :lol:

[egontoast]

I think it's really funny that it's mostly short people who are complaining that other people have tall horses. I'm nearly 6 ft tall and fit my 16.3 h wide barreled and my 17.1 narrower wb very well. Anyway, why would anyone care what size horse I ride? If I were 5' 2" , I would want smaller horses. .

Personally, I would not want a horse over 17.2 because i think soundness becomes trickier with the bigger horses. I would also not want a horse smaller than 16 hands because I would feel ridiculous unless the horse had a humongous barrel and I'd rather not have that either.:cool:

Why do people care what size horse other people ride. i don't think very many people are out there looking for 18 hand horses anyway. This is just another silly rant which has not much to do with reality.:cool:

[JGHIRETIRE]

I don't see why we need mega-monsters either. It's a long way to fall off a 17 or 18h horse - not to mention, it's a long reach to put that bridle on!!
I do notice that horses under 16h are priced differently than those over.

[slc2]

Why are you suggesting warmbloods are all 'humungous'?

In fact, I have a large number of friends who own warmbloods, NONE of them are over 16.1 hands, most are between 15.3 and 16.1 hands, and none of them are 'humungous' at all. I can't recall when I last saw a dressage horse of any type close to 18 hands, to be honest.

Further when I go horsey shopping, I can go to a dealer's barn and see warmblood after warmblood after warmblood all between 16 and 16.3 hands, or smaller, if I ask.

I DO have one friend who has a horse that's about 16.3 hands, but she's around six feet tall, all of it legs, the only other woman I know who has a tall horse is even taller than that lady.

In fact, the new vet told my friend yesterday, 'I LOVE your new little Thoroughbred mare!' and my friend said, 'Ah...it's not a Thoroughbred, it's a Dutch warmblood' and the vet was all, 'NOOOOO!!!! Come on, didn't she just come off the track, come on, for real'

DOH. There are a very large variety of warmbloods around, and I can't think off the top of my head of even ONE person I know who has one even close to 18 h or a heavy one.

I DO have one warmblood horse people are always swearing is very tall, he's barely sixteen 1 hands. Guess they're not used to a horse that doesn't have its head down on the ground. He likes to look around at the ladies.

Where do all these assumptions come from, exactly, that all warmbloods are so huge or tall?

Oh that was just awful of me. Please don't let any reality intrude in this little soiree.

[MelantheLLC]

Well actually I had difficulty finding a warmblood gelding under 16.2 when I was looking this year, and I looked at at LOT of ads and and a fair number of actual trials. It's my experience that the available dressage market is weighted toward mares and 17+. Just recent personal experience--maybe because I was trying to stay under 16.2 it seemed as if they were all taller.

Taller is definitely the current fashion in Europe. A 16 hh horse is defined as a "lady's" horse and is discounted in price. I believe that there is a reason for this--Europeans, particularly the Dutch, are actually getting taller. Unlike Americans, who have leveled out, the Dutch are still gaining height and the average height (by country) is the tallest in the world.

I ended up with a 16.1 Westfalen gelding. He was described as the "smaller model" by the seller who had a half-brother by the same sire.

He's lovely and a perfect size for me at 5'6."

[Aven]

Ok so all can laugh...

This is Aven. As you can tell by my user name.. this was supposed to be 'my' horse. I bred him out of my favourite and talented mare. I bred her to Amiral. Both parents are ~16.1. My mare was an Irish tb.. her sire was 17.1.

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd125/Grey-Run/avenstandnice.jpg

http://s221.photobucket.com/albums/dd125/Grey-Run/?action=view&current=aventrot1.jpg

guess how 'big' he is?! Not quite 15hh!!! He is 4, I am hoping he follows his dam.. she grew an inch and a half after 4. But still what I am I going to do with him? I am too large to ride him (even if I loose enough weight to fit into my show clothes.. I still am on the plump side of things)

Sigh.... I have been knocking around the idea of driving him. Seems like all those people who are interested in smaller horses-aren't interested in THAT much smaller.

[Sancudo]

I have two that a over 17hh, and the peanut is 15.3. Heck of a lot easier for me to ride the big'uns, as I am about 6 foot.

On 17.2- I wish he's take up even more of my leg, he's got a narrow barrel.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b249/DaylightComes/_M9Q7201.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b249/DaylightComes/alysepics084.jpg

The peanut, with stirrups two holes shorter:
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b249/DaylightComes/Clinic044.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b249/DaylightComes/Clinic101.jpg

[Ambrey]

Aven, he's 4 and already a chunky monkey, I can't imagine how you could be too big for him? He is stunning!

He looks like even if he hits 15.2 hh he's going to be well over 1000 lbs.

Sancudo, you look great on the peanut.

[canticle]

Where do all these assumptions come from, exactly, that all warmbloods are so huge or tall?

Oh that was just awful of me. Please don't let any reality intrude in this little soiree.
Let's see slick, don't the WB books still have those pesky minimum height requirements? If you are more comfortable with a horse in the 14h-15h range, then a 15.3+ WB may very well seem huge! ;)

That said, I think people should be free to choose whatever size horse they want. It all comes down to personal preference. There's no need to denigrate those with different preferences.

[quietann]

oh yeah, there is a small WB mare at the barn too. She's a 6 YO Oldenburg and is about 15.2. She's a bit chunky and very cute, and she's really green and can have a bit of an attitude problem. So yes, WBs can be small.

I guess in one of these "height threads" someone with higher-level experience said that the judges prefer a big horse because it's easier to see what it's doing when it's at A. I dunno, are judges that unable to see what's 60 meters away?

(Favorite photo of me and maresy, showing how nicely matched we are size wise, is at http://annsrats.com/horses/feronia/davidphoto.jpg

[Beasmom]

Hey, whatever suits the rider. I've got a 14.3 ISR and a 16.1 Hannoverian. Neither one is "massive" or "ginormous" or "humongous". My dressage horse prior to these two was a 14.1 Arab.

I don't see a trend towards "everyone" in dressage going for gigantic horses.

Brown About Town, an appendix QH, got to the FEI levels. There have been others, I'm sure.

The size argument is just silly. A good horse is a good horse.

[FriesianX]

While I fully agree a good horse is a good horse, and you sure don't NEED a big one to do well in dressage, if you take a look at the bigger show venues, you will see a lot of BIG horses. It is a Warmblood thing, and I'm fully aware that WBs come in small sizes - I have a 15.2 hand mare, and a 16.3 hand mare, both are WBs. When I go to a big show and watch the FEI rides (especially at a CDI), I see a lot of 16.3 to 18 hand horses - and those are Humungous horses. And, funny, often times they are ridden by someone that is under 125 pounds, and under 5'5". It does look a little, ummmm, unmatched? SOME people are quite good at riding big horses, and some big horses are quite light and easy - but in reality, it is easier to ride a horse (all other things being equal) where the rider and horse size match!

I know of someone here who imported a horse - looked all over to make sure it was big enough to impress the judges. She is 5 feet tall - and she can NOT get that horse through, but thank goodness she can ride in a double bridle so she gets a little leverage :lol: Yeah, that is not an unusual attitude to run into.

If you've ever tried to sell dressage horses, you will find that MOST people want a bigger horse - although the "cut off" for a decent sized horse seems to be 16 hands now, a reasonable size. Ten years ago, many people seemed to think 16.2 was needed to go FEI :lol: Must have been written in one of those rules I never read :winkgrin:

[FancyFree]

And, funny, often times they are ridden by someone that is under 125 pounds, and under 5'5".

I've seen that a lot too. Petite, little ladies on HUGE horses. Sometimes it's too much horse for them. I guess it keeps the trainers in business.

If you've ever tried to sell dressage horses, you will find that MOST people want a bigger horse - although the "cut off" for a decent sized horse seems to be 16 hands now, a reasonable size.

I was speaking with my vet about this subject. She said the HUGE horse trend is swinging back to the more reasonably sized horse. The amateur rider, like the smaller women we referred to, are realizing they'd do better on a horse more suited to their size. At least what she sees in our area.

[see u at x]

At our barn, we have only 3 really "big ones". The smallest one is a black/white gelding by State of the Art who is about 16.3. His full brother, a black/white stallion, is 17.2. Their half brother is the biggest one of all - he's by Hall of Fame and is just shy of 18h.

Now, their owner (the BO at my barn) is is a 6'3" tall woman. However, she doesn't NEED a bigger horse to take up her leg - she just needs a big-bodied horse. I watched her ride a big-bodied 15.3h appendix mare on Saturday and she looked great on the mare. When she bred all 3 of these guys, she didn't necessarily WANT big horses. They just kind of turned out that way.

Her feeling is that it's SO much harder for smaller built people to hold those big horses together. I agree, and I think a lot of other people do, too. I mean, like someone else posted, just WATCH some of these little women try to ride those big horses around! Even our BO's assistant, is a tiny little thing at 5'3" and probably 120-125lbs. She's an incredibly talented and naturally gifted rider, yet even so, she too, has a hard time riding the big ones who have a mind of their own. Our BO hesitates putting her on certain horses because of her size.

Quite frankly, I too, get annoyed by some of the ads out there who say that a horse would be good for a small, petite rider or a JR. The horse is 15'3 - what's the issue?!? My horses are a shade under 15h and 16h, yet I look perfectly fine on both of them. They feel "normal" to me. But put me on a 17+h horse, and I feel teeny tiny...and I'm NOT a skinny or short girl (5'6")!

I will say, though, that one of the things I do tend to like about horses who are built a little bigger is they don't feel as "quick" to me. I've noticed that in my TB who is the taller of my two, because she's not as short coupled. It feels easier to ride things out when she's being a pill. My QH, OTOH, if she moves too quickly by either spooking or bucking, it's SO much easier to come off. I dunno....maybe it's just my imagination.

[Perfect Pony]

My mare is a G-line Hanoverian, 6 years old, and has matured to 15.1 and change. She has the movement of a much bigger horse and looks like a big Hanoverian left in the dryer a little too long. She was bought as a 4 year old at 15 hands tall, sold by a breeder who thought she was worthless, for a price 1/3 of what she would have been worth with 3+ inches on her.

I have gone to clinics with International level trainers and judges and have been asked where I imported her from. One judge said she was one of the nicest young mares she had seen in a long time and she recommended I shoot for as high as I can go (which for me is a goal of first level ;)

She is an absolute blast to ride, like being in a tiny sportscar with a 600hp engine.

My friend recently bought a DWB/Trakehner cross mare who is also maybe 15.2, but with a huge step. She was CDS champion at training and 1st level with her AA, scoring in the low to mid 70s! She was starting her 2nd level year with scores in the mid 60s.

[Wellspotted]

Hear, hear, Melelio! I'm with you--in the under-15-hand ring. :D

Maybe Dressage Queens are getting more like guys, and thinking "bigger is better"? "My WB is bigger than your [fill in the breed]"?

Maybe it's an indication that America is finally wanting to be like the rest of the world and ride European horses but supersize them to fit the American lifestyle?

I can see having a bigger hunter if he can step over fences a pony hunter would have to leap, and if your trainer/mom/so will give you a leg up (thus implying you have a real groom), but why, when hunter fences have gotten smaller, would hunters be getting larger?

I was looking at a 13-something-hand cobby type the other day and thinking, "Wow, I could mount him without a mounting block!" when my friend (as short as I) said what a great mount he would make for some little kid.

[Perfect Pony]

I will say, though, that one of the things I do tend to like about horses who are built a little bigger is they don't feel as "quick" to me.

This is more of a TB thing than a size thing. I am used to riding TBs from my past, and my mini mare feels as though she is always moving in slow motion to me. It's been a 2 year journey trying to set my internal rhythm to hers, I want to chase her up to mine.

The rhythm comes from suspension. A horse with a lot of suspension will feel much slower regardless of it's size, same goes for the opposite.

[camohn]

I got a chuckle the other weekend because one of the girls in my daughter's 4H group is a little thing at 17 years old....so she will never be a Big Thing. She shows the A circuit pony hunters. Her trainer wants her to move up to a horse and do the Horsie Hunters at her age. She is really quite happy staying on her large pony. She is pretty much the exception I have seen though. The chuckle is because she thinks my 16.1H horse is huuuge and she is about the same size as the other girls that turned him down as too small!

[Alinera2]

I recently started showing again after a 20 + year hiatus. My current horse is a 15 hand GRP who has a wide barrel, a high set neck & BIG gaits. I am a petite 5 feet tall amateur rider. We've had a great year showing with many successes and I don't think that the judges have been dinging us for size. Most people can't believe the pony is as small as he is when they see us go because we're just a very good size match.

I do worry that the judges won't react well to the pony's size when my trainer takes him in the YH classes. There's no way to know that and I've never been great at predicting what the judges want to see in those classes anyway. He's always placed well though not won and quite frankly, he's never deserved to win so at the end of the day, I've been fine with how he's finished.

A good horse is a good horse. As riders, as long as we're happy with our horses & feel good about the picture we think we present, I'm all for each person having the size horse they want. For me, it was just too hard to use my small sized body & weight to keep those big horses in balance. My smaller guy asks the same questions but I'm better able to answer them & keep things where they need to be.

[Vesper Sparrow]

This is more of a TB thing than a size thing. I am used to riding TBs from my past, and my mini mare feels as though she is.

I think it's more of an individual horse thing, period. Not all TBs have short, quick strides. I have two TBs who are the same height (15.3) and wear the same blanket size. One feels like he takes about 1/3 fewer strides to get around a 20-m circle than the other. The other feels much faster, because she takes shorter strides.

The other day, I was riding him in a lesson with two big horses: a 16.2 Trak and a over 17 hand draft cross. I had to keep making circles because even with his slow, relaxed walk, he kept running into the heels of the big guys ahead of us.

[Bellfleur]

I had this taller mare (17.2+) and I loved that when you rode into the arena people went oh and ah. She was pretty impressive whether it was her height or her movement I never did figure out.

I do have to say that I have ridden 16.2 that was a much tougher ride. She was a very easy and elegant ride. I think it is not so much the size as it is the width of a horse and how much natural talent they have to sit and carry. Plus how much impulsion they have on their own. Nothing is worse than a clunky horse that will not go forward and has no carrying power of their own in any height.

It always looked like a long way down if I did ever come off of her though. Luckily she blessed me with a super temperament and would never have though of dumping me off.

Over her life she had several different size people riding her and she looked pretty ok with them all. They person that ended up buying her did a fabulous job riding her but was only 5.4 or so.

Link to see this mare is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sK45MxmlHNs obviously not me on her!!!

[blackhorse6]

I know that when I purchased my 3 yr old that I didn't expect him to keep on growing like he has.. That may be a "problem" or "blessing" for many people. Yes, he is a Warmblood and I should have known.. But, the two warmblood mares I had prior were done growing by 31/2-4yrs of age. Both were out of tall dam/sires. This guy is 16-3 and still growing:eek: I am 5'6" so I certainly didn't need such a tall horse. Still I don't feel to small on his back as he seems to be more the modern type. My riding mare was just 16 hands and felt like a much bigger horse. She definitely took up more of my leg. Honestly, size really shouldn't matter.. If you and your horse make a great partnership than that is what is most important:yes: Just my thoughts:)

[millerra]

Somebody else said it here too - it's not just height. And it's all about what each person feels comfortable on and the build of a given horse.

I do ride TBs - mine currently range from 16.1 to 17. They are "just right" in size for me but all of them are the std issue narrow(er) TB.

The most uncomfortable horse I have sat on was 15 hand paint. He was too widefor me. So, here was a 15 hand horse who was, all in all too big for me. It felt like my legs were detaching from my hips. Height alone is not the whole story on fitting a horse.

As for style -well, I don't have the money or inclination to give a hoot about riding the "stylish" horse... In short, ride what you want to or like to and have fun.

[mp]

Why, if it doen't need to jump, do dressage riders seem to gravitate to the huge-mongous horses? Do you really NEED an 18hh monster? Isn't it more difficult in the itty bitty dressage rings to perform enough of a pretty movement (or is that the point? ;) )

I still don't get Junior Hunter riders needing huge horses, either, other than making the distances (maybe those should be shortened a touch), but Dressage? Why? Really just curious....

Personally, I like my horses under 15hh :yes::cool:

And your point is?

Just curious ...

[Sudi's Girl]

Why are you suggesting warmbloods are all 'humungous'?


Where do all these assumptions come from, exactly, that all warmbloods are so huge or tall?

Oh that was just awful of me. Please don't let any reality intrude in this little soiree.

Hehe - You should come see the Trak's at my barn. We have a Windfoal who's 16.2 as a yearling. :eek: (Breeder didn't have enough history on the dam's side to know that could happen)...at any rate, we all know there will be a struggle keeping that kid sound. We also have another Trak mare there in the 17h range.

But as far as an 18hh WB, I can't recall seeing any in my area. ETA: I can't imagine the $ needed to keep that horse!!!

But hey - I'm the odd one out at my barn owning the 15.1 compact "sports car" Arab. :cool:

[Melelio]

And your point is?

Just curious ...

I'm just curious too ;)

I'm not short, nor a poor rider. I've watched the A H/J world and the dressage world slowly (in the last 20 years) ramp up the sizes of their horses, and I've always wondered why. Just to compete better against Europeans, and then the 'small time players' who will never go about 1st level need to play "look at me, I look like a Intl. rider"?

Simply wondering the mentality behind this, esp. since dressage judging is touted to be against the MOVEMENT, not the humongosity of said moving horse. The more pictures I see of Intl. level horses and riders that need ladders to get on, the more confused I get. I'm interested to know why....I have no ulterior motives, nor am I buying/selling.

I'm wondering.....why do you have an issue with my wondering? Have you lost your curiosity in the world around you?

[see u at x]

The rhythm comes from suspension. A horse with a lot of suspension will feel much slower regardless of it's size, same goes for the opposite.

You are absolutely right about the suspension. It took me some getting used to when I got Pieper (the 16h TB) last year - she naturally has more "hang time" my QH does. And lemme tell ya, it was SO NICE to be "pushed" out of the saddle. :lol: However, both of my girls are very pretty movers...just different from each other. Neither one is EXTRAVAGENT like a big WB, but they're both pretty well-balanced and correct, which is what I've come to value the most.

[mp]

I'm just curious too ;)

I'm not short, nor a poor rider. I've watched the A H/J world and the dressage world slowly (in the last 20 years) ramp up the sizes of their horses, and I've always wondered why. Just to compete better against Europeans, and then the 'small time players' who will never go about 1st level need to play "look at me, I look like a Intl. rider"?

Simply wondering the mentality behind this, esp. since dressage judging is touted to be against the MOVEMENT, not the humongosity of said moving horse. The more pictures I see of Intl. level horses and riders that need ladders to get on, the more confused I get. I'm interested to know why....I have no ulterior motives, nor am I buying/selling.

Oh.

I thought maybe you'd been run over by a petite DQ wannabe on an out-of-control 18h warmblood.
Or something.

I'm wondering.....why do you have an issue with my wondering? Have you lost your curiosity in the world around you?

Damn, you found me out.

[TaliaCristianna]

I was looking at a 13-something-hand cobby type the other day and thinking, "Wow, I could mount him without a mounting block!" when my friend (as short as I) said what a great mount he would make for some little kid.

This brings back memories. My Paint mare is around 15.2 or 15.3. When she turned three I had her in for training at an eventing barn. The trainer there LOVED her. She was impressed by both her movement and her mind. She was surprised when I told her she was a paint. She had assumed she was a warmblood or warmblood cross.

One day after a lesson one of the upper-level riders even commented to me (while perched atop her $???K Imported Hano gelding) that Bella was a "very attractive mare".

Then a week or so later one of the barn owners walks up to me and says "She's a really nice horse. She's the perfect size for a child."

I wanted to high-five her face!

[Surviving the Dramas]

My first horse is a 16'3 NZ WB, who is massive. Trainer bought him in NZ without me seeing the horse in life, and it took me a while, being a green rider to get over his size and I am almost 6ft myself. I was and still is intimidated by his height. He was trained in dressage but his heart was in jumping and he made an amazing head-turning hunter.

I'm interested to know who your horse is by?

I have a 17.2hh Hano, and a 16hh Hols/Trak both of which I love, but give me the smaller one any day of the week. As a baby he is finding the dressage arena a breeze to get around, is naturally incredibly balanced, and much easier to collect. The 17.2hh is a leggy boy - not barrelly, but still takes A LOT of riding to get true collection. His Pi/Pa takes so much out of my seat/legs to really get his back end under and active, and to get him up and through to get a whole line of ones takes something just short of a miracle by my co-ordination :lol:. He does do absolutely phenomenal extensions though. I learnt the hard way to do my extended canters across the diagonal in my freestyles, as the longside we get all of 5-6 strides!!

It is interesting to note that the average sized imported WB stallion in NZ would be over 17hh I would hazard to guess.
We personally breed to sell (keeping the cream of the crop every year) and we breed for the foals to mature around 16-16.2. Anything bigger or smaller becomes too hard to sell. It makes choosing any of these imported stallions very hard.

Unfortunately, my 3yo (out of a 16.1hh mare, by a 16hh stallion) is now 16.3 with plenty of growing to do, but at least I am keeping him for myself!!

[Trevelyan96]

Oh comon, don't spoil my fun. It's so entertaining watching the middle aged ladies trying to do dressage on their 6-figure 17hh GP mount that they cannot get to trot...

LOL, well that would definitely be me, as I have problems getting my 16.1hh TB to trot! Leg barely clears the flaps! :lol::lol:

[Wellspotted]

Check out this opinion--]

http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=177674

Scroll down to Bank of Dad's post.

[nachohorse]

My hanoverian has now finally matured at 19.2 and he is stunning and is the absolute most comfortable horse I have ever sat on. Of course he is also built like an equine model :)

[Equus_girl]

Surviving the drama,
He is by Charlton Jackaroo http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/jaxon+nz
Thats so interesing you mentioned the average NZ height. My ex BO is native NZ and imports tons of horses, but Jaxon was one of the tallest he has ever brought. Maybe he is simply subjective :)

[hunterjumper22]

I own a 15 hand foundation QH, an almost 16.2 + hand appendix mare, and an 16.2+ hand TB. That liitle QH of mine can jump with the big guys though. He may be little but 3'6 is nothing for him. He is prob the best jumper I have. I do agree though when you start to go bigger more joint prob. can occur. I had to start my appendix late because she was growing to much. At the age of 2 she was already 16 hands and 1200lbs. She is a big beefy mare that does have a knee injury due to her being clumsy. The smaller horses seem to be more sturdy too. I would take my little QH out eventing before I ever took the others.

[5]

Why, if it doen't need to jump, do dressage riders seem to gravitate to the huge-mongous horses? Do you really NEED an 18hh monster?


My personal theory was that the americans were buying coach horse breeds instead of saddle horse breeds becuase of their flashy action.

[Surviving the Dramas]

Surviving the drama,
He is by Charlton Jackaroo http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/jaxon+nz
Thats so interesing you mentioned the average NZ height. My ex BO is native NZ and imports tons of horses, but Jaxon was one of the tallest he has ever brought. Maybe he is simply subjective :)

That seems normal. Jackaroo doesn't throw particularly large - though you are braver than I to sit on something with Distlefink in the bloodlines. Craziest mother of a stallion ever, though sired some stunning and extremely successful horses. You need to be able to handle quirky/hot.

There is also Charlton Javelin who is also 16.1-16.2ish I think. Not sure how they are related, possibly same dam.

[piaffe1]

yes im 1 of the ones with the hugh horse he is 18 hands and IM 5"1.
I would never of bought a horse thsi big,but he was given to me so ill take him. he does IM 2. he is the best horse iv ever came across very sweet and thinks he is a puppy,thank god.when i frist got him home i was like holy s**t.It took a long time to get used to his size.Know i love to dance with him.

[egontoast]

yes im 1 of the ones with the hugh horse he is 18 hands and IM 5"1.
I would never of bought a horse thsi big,but he was given to me so ill take him. he does IM 2. he is the best horse iv ever came across very sweet and thinks he is a puppy,thank god.when i frist got him home i was like holy s**t.It took a long time to get used to his size.Know i love to dance with him. Dec. 5, 2008 03:30 AM

:)Lucky you .:)

I thought you were taller than that, Theo.

[kimberly gorham]

For me!!! I have ran into a few problems....
need extra tall, extra wide trailer
double dose wormer
not everything comes in 86 blankets and oversize
size 4 shoes kill the pasture
not all stalls are big enough
can't get back on without a step up
Not every barn manger wants to handle him
I always get asked why did you buy such a big horse
If I could shrink him I would, but if I could choose I would make myself taller!

[mp]

yes im 1 of the ones with the hugh horse he is 18 hands and IM 5"1.
I would never of bought a horse thsi big,but he was given to me so ill take him. he does IM 2. he is the best horse iv ever came across very sweet and thinks he is a puppy,thank god.when i frist got him home i was like holy s**t.It took a long time to get used to his size.Know i love to dance with him.

Could be worse -- you could have nachohorse's hano at a whopping 19.2.

[pk1027]

I question the same thing, I think its much harder and takes a lot more muscle and work to get the large horse to move up and through the hind end. I find that many males are able to ride these huge horses well and get them moving just because they have the weight and strength to do so. There is one 17.1 horse at our farm who is terribly hard to get moving in the first place because he is so lazy and then trying to get him move up and through is almost impossible. But we had a man get on him and it only took him a few rounds to get the horse moving. Personally I do not see how these small people get these huge monsters to move in this way.

[petitefilly]

Here is a little story that sums it up pretty well:

I overheard two people at my barn talking about a smallish horse they were trying to sell. One woman, with great disdain in her voice, said, "I've had a lot of calls about her, but everyone balks at her size. It's just sickening that all anyone cares about is size." She then walks out to her vehicle, a Ford Excursion.

:):):):):):):):):):):)

You sure made me laugh today.

Honestly, the size has something to do with the Upper Levels. People who show at the big time shows need (or think they need) some leverage over the other person competing with them. Sometimes a hundredth of a point comes down to the quality of the gaits, and this bigger horse can impress one with it's bigger more extravagant movement.

Then we have the *trickle down theory*, what works for the Upper Levels should work for me. Then the woman/man goes out and buys the bigger horse to help their scores! :) Will this always work? Of course not! But we have the mind at work here, the mind of a person who wants it more than they need it. Buying the better dressage horse just has gotten the minds of people wanting bigger horses.

If the world had more smaller horses winning at the Top, we would be riding smaller animals. YMMV!

[MelantheLLC]

My personal opinion is that when the height/size of the horse is proportional to the height/size of the rider, they present a balanced picture. This is purely aesthetic, but it is equally distracting to see a very tiny person on a huge horse and a tall and/or heavy person on a small horse.

Again, pure aesthetics.

It does bother me to hear that it takes a stronger or larger or male rider to get a big horse "through." The logic here is that it takes pure strength, and I would like to think that is the opposite of what should be the case.

I have ridden a very dull 17.2 warmblood who apparently could not halt himself--he would just keep going through the rein with the momentum of his bulk. I once thought I would use the side of the barn to help him learn to halt--surely he would stop (from a walk) with that barrier in front to help him with the concept. No. He walked right into the wall, poor guy. So I know that there are horses who seem unable to handle their own size and momentum.

But in hindsight, I realize he was on his forehand and I was assuming that the strength of my hand would stop him. I was riding him all wrong and nobody (I had BHS instructors at the time) was telling me how to help him learn this simple task of balancing himself in order to halt.

It may be more difficult for a larger horse to figure out how to handle himself--elephants are not known to do ballet for a reason--but the rider's strength really shouldn't be part of the issue. The horse's training and gymnasticizing are the issue. If he can't halt (or go forward in balance) then he needs help to learn how to do it himself, not using the rider's strength.

[5]

--elephants are not known to do ballet for a reason--.

In Fantasia a Hippo did and the model for that scenes movement was actually a 300 or so pound# ex- ballet dancer that someone at Disney had found somewhere. (Not really relevent to this topic but I've been waiting years to pass on that bit of trivia)

[Equus_girl]

That seems normal. Jackaroo doesn't throw particularly large - though you are braver than I to sit on something with Distlefink in the bloodlines. Craziest mother of a stallion ever, though sired some stunning and extremely successful horses. You need to be able to handle quirky/hot.

There is also Charlton Javelin who is also 16.1-16.2ish I think. Not sure how they are related, possibly same dam.

Wow, thats interesting. I do not know anything about NZ bloodlines, thanks for educating me! :) I would have to agree, Jaxon is actually quite a handful on the ground and spooks a lot. However, he is very reliable under the saddle, one of the horses who knows its his job to take care of you.
I actually have met a guy from NZ who has Jaxon's half brother, an eventer. They both look like twins and both have angled line from croup to the dock of the tail, looks pretty weird. Im going look for Charlton Javelin now, see if it runs in the family :)
http://public.fotki.com/equusanya/2007/jackson/img0144.html

[FancyFree]

--elephants are not known to do ballet for a reason--

Elephants and sumo wrestlers. :lol:

[grayarabpony]

In Fantasia a Hippo did and the model for that scenes movement was actually a 300 or so pound# ex- ballet dancer that someone at Disney had found somewhere. (Not really relevent to this topic but I've been waiting years to pass on that bit of trivia)

I'm trying to figure out what emoticon to use -- I don't think COTH has it.

Glad for you that you finally got to pass on that bit of trivia though. ;)

[Sandy M]

Elephants and sumo wrestlers. :lol:

But, but..... hippos DO!




http://www.alexross.com/l22.html

[FancyFree]

I was wrong:

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/8742/sumoballerinasvo1.jpg


:lol:

[MelantheLLC]

But can they levade?

[JGHIRETIRE]

OMG - trying to wrap my brain around sumo's in tutu's.