Express Eventing is just the beginning.... [Archive]

LexInVA

Dec. 1, 2008, 09:41 PM

Ah I see. It's the infamous indoor Eventhing thingie I have been hearing of. It kinda looks...well I'm not sure how to say it without offending someone but it's like...a big indoor showjumping course. Like XC got date raped by SJ and the result was a higher functioning yet clearly mentally impaired offspring that Eventing is stuck with raising all by it's lonesome self. After watching those few minutes of footage, I can see why that fall happened. It's really not that far off from what is happening in regular Eventing.

Jazzy Lady

Dec. 1, 2008, 10:44 PM

They do indoor eventing at the Royal in Ontario. It's a great contrast to the h/j that goes on, but it's quite different than express eventing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xU4CX8UputE

Here's a video of Penny Rowland and her horse going around on the second night.

Coppers mom

Dec. 2, 2008, 12:00 AM

I hate to say this because I really admire Mary King, but it looked like that second fence wasn't going to happen several strides out. She was making a pretty big move with her body, and it looked really unorganized. Why didn't she just pull out?

I don't think it even looks fun. I mean, why not just do show jumping? I thought the fun of cross country was actually going cross country.

galwaybay

Dec. 2, 2008, 12:00 AM

absolutely heartbreaking...sadly it can happen anywhere... it happened to Chris Kappler in Athens...

lassoch

Dec. 2, 2008, 01:31 AM

It's interesting, because I see a lot of parallels between the current dilemmas of Thoroughbred racing and eventing. Both have recently come under fire for deaths, with accusations being thrown that they are dangerous and cruel. What's a giant, common thread between the two? Both have been gunning for speed. American racing has been incredibly fixated on horses that can show intense, brilliant speed at a young age, but there is no emphasis put on stamina or structural strength. Our races are much shorter distances than ones run in other countries. As a result, we have horses that are blazing up the track at age two but need to be duct taped together to keep their hooves from falling apart by age three.

Similarly in eventing, it's become all about speed and spectator convenience instead of safety and endurance. First, we toss out the long format in favor of the short format, we toss out traditional style jumps in favor of crazy looking "cool" questions, and now we want to try to compress courses even further? In both sports, people are trying to cut corners for the sake of speed, and horses are paying the price of it.

JRG

Dec. 2, 2008, 06:40 AM

I don't usually post here, but I do read the posts. For what its worth here is my comment.

After all the hard knocks eventors have taken this year....Really!! someone thought this was a good idea?

riderboy

Dec. 2, 2008, 07:54 AM

I've joked about "indoor eventing" when it was 30 degrees and sleeting- but that video sure changed my mind. It won't be funny anymore.

cuonxc

Dec. 2, 2008, 08:24 AM

Here is the video clip of Mary King competing in the "Express Eventing" competition for those of you who do not know what Express Eventing is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocBE7OVPD_U&feature=related

WARNING: Horse fall during XC.

OMFG -I did not think eventing could be further bastardized

apparently I was wrong :(

blackwatch86

Dec. 2, 2008, 09:12 AM

did anybody watch the "eventing express promotional video"? The actual ring looked nothing like that...

also, that was the weirdest eventing thing I've ever seen (I couldnt watch the Mary King one, so I picked a diff. express eventing video).

GreekDressageQueen

Dec. 2, 2008, 09:22 AM

I don't really see anything wrong with this. The indoor shows in the UK and Europe are big, tight, and fast. Have any of you been there? The only difference I see are the more x-country-themed jumps, combinations, and more room for gallop. MK half-halted Cavalier before the combo and he took the first jump spot-on IMO in good form. It was a very long two strides and he probably would have been fine but it looks he anticipated the jump and MK checked him on the second stride causing his head to go up, his back tensed, and he couldn't use his body to go over the jump. Or, his leg broke on that second stride which caused his awkward take off. I don't see any gross rider error here and the horse seemed in very good form. Nothing about the jumps seemed overly dangerous and her speed was very controlled.

I hate what is happening to eventing and I really hate all of the deaths, but I don't want to point the same old tired finger at everyone anytime a horse dies. Yes, this was tragic as are all the other bad things that have happened, but in this case, it appears it was just an accident. Bad luck. It is so terribly sad and such a waste.

purplnurpl

Dec. 2, 2008, 09:27 AM

The clip from Ontario was a little more doable.

The questions on the express eventing video were down right retarded.
I'm suprised all competitors did not WD.

As for all of this indoor mumbo jumbo.
Seriously, why not just call it a winter season and spend some time with the JUMPERS!?

Eventing is for the Spring and Fall.
XC indoors is just plain foolish.
The combo that MK had issue with has worked fine for many years on an open XC course. Not indoors pointed at a wall for crying out loud. (insert curse word here)

I miss the days when horses were expected to do a few warm up HTs and then a big CCI each season.

Jealoushe

Dec. 2, 2008, 10:28 AM

HELLLLLLLLLLLLLLO PEOPLE

What are they thinking?!?!??!!

SHOWJUMPERS have a hard enough time getting a good gallop and maintaining balance and impulsion when they switch from the outdoor cicuit to the indoor.

WHY O WHY are we trying to get eventers who are supposed to have nice smooth rythymic gallops between fences to mad gallop around a small area.

It makes me want to rip my hair out.

And honestly, I like indoor eventing, I did a bit when I lived in Scotland, but it was more like a jumper course with some natural looking fences.

I hate this, I hate it so much.

I have to agree there was a riding error in that video. HOWEVER, if that were out on a real course I don't know if it would have happened. Riding errors do happen, but why are they always equalling death NOW???

The worst part is, these werent even real cross-country jumps, they are portable ones and breakable....so obviously there is more to it than jump construction as well.

Tdeventer

Dec. 2, 2008, 11:57 AM

I love eventing and I hope this does not come to be the only way we can run cross country. The only reason I am an eventer is because of XC the excitement but if they start to change the sport to this then we all should just become jumpers. This is not eventing this is a mockery of eventing. If they want to have this kinda sport on the side like a combined test than they can do that. They just should not expect the horses to be tested so hard between sold fences and stadium jumps. and a bank indoors come on. Mary kings horse looked so confused throughout the entire thing. He was such a good boy trying to figure out what was coming next. and roll backs to these solid fences. It was just like sharp turn after sharp turn.

This is not eventing

retreadeventer

Dec. 2, 2008, 12:24 PM

I think some rich folks wanted to do something big to showcase the biggest names in the sport, outside of Burghley, Badminton, and the Olympics, and didn't want people to have to slog over the fields and mud to see them ride in all their upper level glory. They were willing to put up a bunch of dough to make sure the biggest names showed up. They got a big stadium that would sell a lot of tickets making back their big money so they wouldn't be out a whole lot. They crossed all the T's and dotted all the i's in order to make this a spectator friendly sort of eventers showcase.

Unfortunately this terrible thing had to happen. And actually I believe it sort of was ordained, because while the earnest hopeful backers all wanted just to showcase ULR's, the premise was flawed, and taking out the LAND and COUNTRY part of cross-country resulted in - well, what it resulted in. Money is the root of all of this and caused the poor judgments, in my opinion. I was dismayed about it long before it actually took place - several years ago when DOC was touting the Royal Winter Fair deal - I wasn't real thrilled with it then.

If cross country is removed then we are not really eventing in any shape or form. It's show jumping with solid fences. I highly doubt you could talk Beezie Madden or her ilk into jumping such a course with solid fences for ANY money, but that's just my opinion from what I have seen of our Olympic level show jumping riders. They don't seem so desperate for cash.

My personal message to our ULRS in this sport: get a job, marry a rich guy, or find a sponsor. Don't do THIS for money.

Jealoushe

Dec. 2, 2008, 02:33 PM

My personal message to our ULRS in this sport: get a job, marry a rich guy, or find a sponsor. Don't do THIS for money.

or girl!

Flipper

Dec. 2, 2008, 03:37 PM

Looks like 'speed dating' to me....yikes! Give me the good long gallops any day.

Mardi

Dec. 2, 2008, 04:12 PM

I'm not an eventer, I'm just visiting from another forum. I first read about Express Eventing in October in a newsletter about horse shows. From what I've read there and online before the event took place, the organizers wanted to attract the general public to the sport, and felt that having it indoors, on one day would help bring them in. Being equestrians themselves, their goal was to introduce the sport to more people. And their hope was (is) to make it a worldwide circuit.

It sounded fine with me, mostly because there are so many pleas, year after year, for our equestrian associations to get more of the public involved. From what I understood, Express Eventing was not designed to replace "real" eventing. It is simply a different package.

My question to you is: is it worth it to have this kind of packaging in order to attract the general public to the sport ? Does the end justify the means ?

Or do you, as eventers, prefer to continue try to attract the general public to "real" eventing (multi-day, outdoors) ?

Which concept/package would you choose ? Can you do both ?

Again, I'm not an eventer ! I'm just interested in hearing your thoughts on your sport, and how it is (or isn't) marketed.

Weatherford

Dec. 2, 2008, 04:32 PM

Look at the box scores (http://www.eeicup.com/results.asp):(

Not particularly encouraging, IMHO. :no:

I mean, only 6 of 20 finished??

deltawave

Dec. 2, 2008, 04:52 PM

I thought people were excited about this new venue? Every other thread I've seen, people have been positive. :confused:

LexInVA

Dec. 2, 2008, 04:54 PM

I thought people were excited about this new venue? Every other thread I've seen, people have been positive. :confused:

In theory, it sounds like a great idea and I'm sure it could work with some intelligent planning. But in practice, the rush to "promote the sport" and "sell it to the people" has definitely left a turd in the punchbowl.

enjoytheride

Dec. 2, 2008, 05:07 PM

Zephyr

Dec. 2, 2008, 05:11 PM

IMO, 6 completions and 13 eliminated/retired is not an acceptable ratio... there may be some modifications that could make it more feasible, but right now what I see is terrifying 600 mpm running speed around SJ turns at solid tables - eeeek.

I think the only way it would fly would be at lower levels. Those jumps are just too big, wide, solid and technical for the indoor venue. Agree about the "turd in the punch bowl!"

Thomas_1

Dec. 2, 2008, 05:30 PM

I'm in agreement with the OP.

IMO it's NOT eventing and it's a shame they've used the word in the title.

Kyrie

Dec. 2, 2008, 07:24 PM

IMHO, MK's fall could have happened 'outside', or to anyone. Unfortunate, and ghastly for all concerned.

I reckon XC speeds need to be revised - everyone (globally) is simply going too fast :eek:

Gnep

Dec. 2, 2008, 07:41 PM

enjoythe ride,
that is miachael jung, he is very good at it and the course is prelim and he rides a 2 star horse, the footing for the arena is prepared for Stadium Jumping and the ? Eventers ? are just a show, the main guys are the stadium jumpers.

The thing in GB, was a imitattion of Stadium Motor Cross and Monster Truck Racing, it was all about thrills, spectator adrenalin and big money for the riders and that big money killed a horse

Little Valkyrie

Dec. 2, 2008, 07:49 PM

If this "express eventing" is becoming the new eventing, I'll see you in the hunt field. If you want to do things in an ring, show jump. There is nothing wrong with show jumping; don't drag solid fences into the mix.

blackwatch86

Dec. 3, 2008, 09:55 AM

or girl!

I agree, Jealoushe! Now...where is my dream girl who is going to fund my riding career? Any takers? No? Nobody wants to buy me a prelim horse?

Jealoushe

Dec. 3, 2008, 11:56 AM

From what I've read there and online before the event took place, the organizers wanted to attract the general public to the sport, and felt that having it indoors, on one day would help bring them in. Being equestrians themselves, their goal was to introduce the sport to more people. And their hope was (is) to make it a worldwide circuit.

It sounded fine with me, mostly because there are so many pleas, year after year, for our equestrian associations to get more of the public involved. From what I understood, Express Eventing was not designed to replace "real" eventing. It is simply a different package.

My question to you is: is it worth it to have this kind of packaging in order to attract the general public to the sport ? Does the end justify the means ?

Or do you, as eventers, prefer to continue try to attract the general public to "real" eventing (multi-day, outdoors) ?

Which concept/package would you choose ? Can you do both ?

Well, eventing is already a world wide sport.

As for bringing spectators in, honestly...I could care LESS if people, the general public want to come to events. I would MUCH prefer the sponsorships to be from horse savy people who are putting money into the sport they love because they LOVE it, NOT because they hope to make money or see excitement. Think about this.

Not only were 14 eliminated, but 2 horses fell. Thats %10 of the horses entered fell. 5% of the horses died. Indoors. This is not making sense. Some of those big fences are galloping fences, not meant to be INDOOR.

WNT

Dec. 3, 2008, 07:34 PM

What f-tard thought that was a good idea!? We saw the result of crappy ill-planned footing with Royal Kaliber in the Athens show jumping. Aren't there plenty of large grass rings with lots of seating with established footing designed for 1/2 ton hard-footed critters as opposed to 250 +/- lb rugby players in cleats? WTF!!!

I haven't really felt the need to rant about anything lately (it's been very refreshing!) and then this abomination crops up resulting in what was some scary riding (OT, I'm talking about YOU!) and some unforgiving situations that some horses and riders were lucky enough to get a stop or run-out. In an environment in eventing right now where speed has seemed to become a deciding factor in whether you come back to barn on your own two (or four) feet or not at all, why are we still making "Beat The Clock" so f-ing important!?

Why is common sense the least common thing in the world? Especially when money is involved? BTW, big shout out to Bettina Hoy. You rock.

Straightarrow

Dec. 4, 2008, 12:07 AM

Express Eventing is ALL about the money. Neil Ayer I believe, once said prize money would be the death of eventing.
I would look to the organizers and specifically, to the TD of this abomination as to why only 6 of 19 starters even finished. Micheal Tucker previously designed the WEG 2002, where more teams and riders were eliminated than ever before. Some of the same issues were present - footing that was as slippery as a bald bathroom rug, skidding out from under the horse's feet, the relentless in-your-face quality of the course, poorly placed fences - ie the corners set facing the wall.
I can't believe the riders, and the owners/sponsors, of the UL horses will support this "game", in spite of the prize $$$.
It has been said what doesn't evolve, dies. Maybe eventing's day is over, just another anachronism that has outlived it's time -

BarnBrat

Dec. 4, 2008, 01:48 AM

It seems in a time of negative nellies everyone has forgotten when this video was posted and everyone raved about how much freaking fun it looked and what an excellent idea for those miserable winters it was.

The horse seems to be loving it and he jumps those fences out of a gallop in an indoor. He looks much more forward and the footing is different.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uutq4mbBmPo

Love the music!

Your right, the horse is loving it and jumping those fences out of a gallop. That course was ridden at two speeds: forward and more forward. That can't be compared with the other yank and crank whirl wind of a course. Which I thought wasn't far off from a compressed version of a typical upper level course these days. *Ugh. Why can't the idiots directing this sport comprehend the very simple, blatently obvious fact that horses have limits. The sport is asking more than they are capable of. Oh, that's right. They have spectators to attract and money to make. Where's the barfing icon? :mad: :no:

Edited to add: Above rant not directed at enjoytheride, or anyone else, unless you are one of TPTB, in which case I'm talking to you #$%#$%!

Thomas_1

Dec. 4, 2008, 04:58 PM

Today I was talking to someone who was at the event . She said the whole event was absolutely awful and appalling design: with a "hickstead bank" style jump collapsing just after a horse left it and having to be taken out of the course. In addition to really bad footing and no space, tight turns etc, a stadium audience banked high and encouraged to make loads of noise. Seems the horses really didn't cope well to any of it. When Mary's horse went down it seems that it was pretty dreadful and obviously the leg was broken. Though they got him in the ambulance straight away it seems that once the trailer was loaded they couldn't get it out of the stadium and it got stuck in the exit for over 20 minutes...... Sounds VERY bad!

The last thing the fantastic sport of eventing needs is to be associated with that!

Ritazza

Dec. 4, 2008, 07:23 PM

Well I know I for one would rather be shot in the head than teach my horse to tear around helter-skelter in an indoor like that :eek:

If this is the freakazoid additionally-sprouted bastard limb of eventing that is NEVER replaced with the original thing.... well, then there you go. But this better NOT be the future of eventing. This is my sport... this is our sport. Perhaps if we make ourselves loud enough, we'll be heard.

LISailing

Dec. 4, 2008, 07:36 PM

As I've said on other posts -- if you desire to have a large audience watching you jump a variety of obstacles do Jumping Derbys. I hope that the Extreme Eventing meets a quick endless death (its already taken a life).

I think bareback eventing would be much more exciting myself. It would put the riders in a more athletic catagory and might be as crazy exciting as bullriding!!!:winkgrin:

eponacowgirl

Dec. 4, 2008, 08:43 PM

I think bareback eventing would be much more exciting myself. It would put the riders in a more athletic catagory and might be as crazy exciting as bullriding!!!:winkgrin:

I second that motion! Lets put some 4* riders on their horses and send them around BN bareback. THAT I would pay money for.

Eventer13

Dec. 4, 2008, 10:34 PM

Did you all see this:
http://www.horsetalk.co.nz/news/2008/12/009.shtml

LISailing

Dec. 5, 2008, 06:48 AM

Looking for the return on an investment?

Okay, can someone somewhere define what sport is? Then can you tell me what it was originally meant to be.

Jealoushe

Dec. 5, 2008, 10:27 AM

honestly, there is a FINE example of how the death of a very special horse holds NO merit in these peoples minds.

That article made me f*cking sick. Sorry for the language, but honestly...if the top riders switch to this sport I will lose ALL respect for them.

Taking their best rides and having them injured or dead, and wasting their time with this. At least it leaves room for the others to make it to the top in eventing.

I'd be very surprised to see who chooses this over traditional eventing.

bip

Dec. 5, 2008, 01:05 PM

Forgive me if this idea is repeats, I have only read the first page or two, watched much of the Mary King video (the decided I got it and didn't need to see a fatal crash today), but I haven't read the whole thread.

Here's what's obviously next: Envision a horse-sized treadmill. A mechanism underneath attaches a jump, which rotates around for the horse to negotiate, then as the jump passes under the machine, it picks up a new jump. Jumps would appear at different intervals, and the treadmill would change incline to simulate terrain.

And long before that happens, I'll have given up competing for trails. And I'll use the time I save not traveling to competitions for knitting.