Galloping Down the Pavement?

[CandyHaasch]

O.K., here's a question. I was brought up to believe it is not correct horsemanship to gallop down a paved road. Too much concussion for hoooves/joints/legs in general. Not to mention slippery! I am a novice foxhunter, and I am discovering the field is expected to do this on a fairly regular basis! Usually it's only gravel roads, but last hunt it was right down the county highway! Naturally my horses are shod, and so far there is no sign of harm -- no heat/puffiness in legs, no attitude change the next day.

But I do not want to fear that I am sacrificing my horses' future soundness for my sudden addiction to this enthralling sport. Seasoned foxhunters, what is your take on this matter?

[SteeleRdr]

We will occasionally canter down roads, but not anything crazy, but mostly trot. Road work should be part of most fitness regimens for a foxhunter. It builds up the strength in their legs, and actually strengthen and prevent injury. When I road 'chasers, we always worked the horses (trotting) down the roads for MILES. My legs got a serious workout!

[Xanthoria]

Jorrocks: it ain't 'unting as 'urts 'orses, it's the 'ammer, 'ammer, 'ammer on the 'ard 'igh road.

Might not hurt today, or next week, but you're asking for concussion injuries somewhere down the road. Stay on the verge!

[SlobberHound]

I don't see anything wrong with it if the horse has hoof boots on or is barefoot. It's too slick and hard on shod horses.

[Elghund2]

When I hunted in NOVA we would be on the paved roads usually at least once a hunt. You couldn't avoid because of all of the development. Since moving to central VA its very rare as we have a lot of wide open territory.

We did get on some pavement a couple of weeks ago during a joint meet. My horse remembered the pavement, settled down into a much shorter stride.

[Good Old Sledge]

The less exposure to pavement the better. Sometimes you have to. If you can stay off to the side, do so. If you can keep it to a trot and catch up later, do so. As wisely said above, it might not show this season, but it'll catch up - and just a little moisture can float the oil up to the surface and make the footing treacherous (ask any motorcyclist).

[Thomas_1]

Not only is it high impact but it's also high risk of a slip or fall on a paved area with no traction

Plus pedestrians tend not to like it! :winkgrin:

[JSwan]

I do roadwork to leg up my hunter; it's part of our normal routine.

Borium helps with traction.

I'd not be galloping unless it was to save life or limb (or horse or hound). If a landowner might get upset with hoofprints alongside their driveway - I avoid it. Otherwise - I try and stay on the grass.

I'll tell you what's more slippery than pavement - it's that black sealant that people paint on their driveways. I don't know what it's made of but when horse steps foot on it - it's like ice. Even with borium. Horrible stuff. Even just walking across the road is scary.

[armandh]

LT horses usually die B4 their owners [well: except at my age]
prepare for their retirement as they only have so many jumps in them.
in the mean time shoes with drilltack or borium studs will prevent the slip and fall.
avoid the hwy. if you can.
I remember once having to lead the field down the highway on a long run.
I would cut over to the verge whenever I could and take a break from the pounding.

[Beverley]

I have done more than my fair share of galloping on roads, as a member of the field, as a whipper-in, and these days on the annual Pony Express reenactment. As you might imagine, much of the original Pony Express trail is paved these days, including interstate highway and metropolitan Salt Lake City. This means, for each two-mile relay, pavement the whole way- and no I won't flat out gallop, especially when one has traffic lights to obey, but a nice steady canter does the trick, I won't go faster than a trot on the steeps in the canyons, though. But I can tell you I HAVE gone flat out on Route 15, south of Gilbert's Corner, passing a VW beetle and playing chicken with an oncoming semi, to get to a spot to ensure that hounds wouldn't be harmed on the road.

Shoes and borium are essential. The wear on a barefoot horse's feet would be unacceptable to me. I can tell you that I have yet (knock wood) to have ANY ill effects on any horses from speed on hard surfaces. The one that had the highest hard surface mileage was also one that hunted pretty hard from ages 6 to 26.

Two things are, I think, essential. First is as J Swan noted, conditioning. You should, in the course of getting any horse fit for hunting or other strenuous activity, do a fair amount of walking and trotting on hard surfaces, good conditioning for those tendons and ligaments. Second- though I was originally, as a kid, taught to never gallop on roads, I've since learned that the risk for injury isn't so much the consistency of the footing (rock hard to knee deep in mud) as the SUDDEN CHANGE in footing. IOW you are as likely to risk injury to the horse going at speed into deep plough as you are from soft surface to hard. The key, therefore, is where a significant change in the footing is encountered- trot the first little bit of that to allow the horse to adjust.

As gothedistance notes, whether it's paved roads or a number of other hunting possibilities, the idea is not to risk life and limb, slow up for a bit. Caveat though- if you find yourself constantly having to fall back and then catch up, that might be a sign that you'll want to drop back to a slower flight. You are supposed to be enjoying the day, not fighting constantly with issues outside of your comfort zone.

[DeeThbd]

Jorrocks: it ain't 'unting as 'urts 'orses, it's the 'ammer, 'ammer, 'ammer on the 'ard 'igh road.

Might not hurt today, or next week, but you're asking for concussion injuries somewhere down the road. Stay on the verge!

Ah, you wonderful lady! My late mum used to say that rhyme sometimes - she was English, and told me oodles of lovely stories of her life there. I miss her a lot because what she taught me is so vital to who I am as a person and a horseman.
The version she taught me was a variaton, but a good one....
It's not the 'oppin over 'edges that 'urts the 'orses 'ooves,
It's the 'ammer 'ammer 'ammer on the 'ard 'igh 'road.
Have an AWESOME day!
Dee

[DeeThbd]

I do roadwork to leg up my hunter; it's part of our normal routine.

Borium helps with traction.

I'd not be galloping unless it was to save life or limb (or horse or hound). If a landowner might get upset with hoofprints alongside their driveway - I avoid it. Otherwise - I try and stay on the grass.

I'll tell you what's more slippery than pavement - it's that black sealant that people paint on their driveways. I don't know what it's made of but when horse steps foot on it - it's like ice. Even with borium. Horrible stuff. Even just walking across the road is scary.

True enough, JSwan.
I once boarded one of my OTTBs at a stable that had one end in a residential area, and another out to open countryside. I turned out my gelding in his usual paddock, which had two gates - one we always used, and one we NEVER EVER used. It was around a corner and mid-fence line, and out of view of the turnout entrances to the barn.
Well, brainless fellow boarder (believe it or not "experienced" with Congress level QHs) lifted out the gate to bring her jumps to the arena, and broke the cardinal rule of closing gates behind oneself. It was actually a lift-out gate, and she just left it lying on the ground. Well, of course I see Boo at a hard gallop out of the residential end of the property, heading straight into town. With a large show in town with purses to the tune of $50K. I was having a stroke envisioning him down there. I whistled him up, and he hit the brakes after crossing several lawns at a hard gallop. Coming back, he hit a driveway covered in that sealant and fell HARD. One minute he was rocking along, the next minute, WHOMP. Got up, scared now, and finally we corraled him in the barn. Punctured his leg and exposed his suspensory - I had a lot to say that night.
Dee

[goeslikestink]

O.K., here's a question. I was brought up to believe it is not correct horsemanship to gallop down a paved road. Too much concussion for hoooves/joints/legs in general. Not to mention slippery! I am a novice foxhunter, and I am discovering the field is expected to do this on a fairly regular basis! Usually it's only gravel roads, but last hunt it was right down the county highway! Naturally my horses are shod, and so far there is no sign of harm -- no heat/puffiness in legs, no attitude change the next day.

But I do not want to fear that I am sacrificing my horses' future soundness for my sudden addiction to this enthralling sport. Seasoned foxhunters, what is your take on this matter?

walk and trotting on paved surface or normal roads are the norm in uk
but tracks dirt tracks cinder tracks you can canter on, even oens that have ssome gravel on them
like these tracks in my wood--www.bwag.org which ahve been resurfaced by the army so not boggy muddy one now look at the before and after photos
this is whats normal type of tracks to ride in uk, but road we walk or trot on
one doenst normally canter on the roads but as the hunt does come through the woodland and additional farmlands which cover another 2/3000 acres then small roads do appear
they often jump the little roads or canter right across them a few steps on concrete doesnt harm the horse at all
we also have by laws that prevent horses being on pavements they have to be in the roads and not on afootpath, it can be a bridle path or by way but not a footpath or pavement
pavement to us is sidewalk to you i think, roads that are tarmac arnt a problem to horses shod or unshod

[okggo]

Twice I've heard people mention barefoot. Are you talking hunting with no "protection" or with boots on?

I plan to get my guy out next year and he isn't shod, the big reason I haven't tried anything in '08 is I dont' know how he would be trotting down gravel roads (which we have a lot of) and I have that ole fear of road founder that always crosses my mind when working on blacktop.

[LookinSouth]

My horse gets a fair amount of walking on roads to get to various trails etc. We do some trot here and there too but I try to stick to walk as much as possible. However, I absolutely REFUSE to canter or gallop down a paved road. The idea of a horse slipping and falling with a rider on pavement to me is terrifying and a good way to kill yourself. Not to mention I would not doubt that regular hard work on pavement would damage a horses legs/feet over time.

The day I am required to canter/gallop down pavement is the day I quit hunting. I am not risking my horses soundness and our safety to hunt. I agree with those that say if the field canters down a road bring your horse down to a trot and stay at the back of the field. The only problem with that philosophy is it is easier said than done most of the time.:winkgrin:

Fortunately the hunt I ride with I have been out on a road ONCE and that was at the trot with alot of walking. For the most part it is rare that we use roads unless we are riding to the meet. I don't think I would ride with a hunt that did alot on the road.

[Triplicate]

Horses are somewhat like cars. They only have so many jumps and so many miles in them. Some last longer than others.
Use either one carefully and he or it will last much longer.

[CandyHaasch]

Thank you so much all of you for your comments. You have all been most helpful. True to form: like every foxhunters I have met so far. How could one NOT get addicted to this sport? It combines my three favorite things in the world: riding out in beautiful, undespoiled countryside, watching dogs . . er. . . hounds . . . have fun, and riding like a "bat ouf of h----". The horses love it so. The first hunt I was ever on, there were 79 head, all with their ears pricked, their eyes shining. . you sure don't see that in the show ring, nowadays (especially "pleasure" classes)! The energy of nearly 100 head of horses enjoying themselves to the max is SO exhilarating! Not to mention the riders! And then of course, the hounds!!!! WOW is all I can say. Any one who has never tried it, just DO.

So from now on I will follow my conscience, and pull back to a trot, whenever it is hard pavement, and not feel bad, and just consider it good practice to "kick on", as you put it, and catch up, later. THANKS AGAIN!

[Beverley]

Twice I've heard people mention barefoot. Are you talking hunting with no "protection" or with boots on?

I plan to get my guy out next year and he isn't shod, the big reason I haven't tried anything in '08 is I dont' know how he would be trotting down gravel roads (which we have a lot of) and I have that ole fear of road founder that always crosses my mind when working on blacktop.

I know some folks who hunt their horses barefoot. I know no one who uses boots- probably because they still haven't been perfected to the point that they will a) stay on in all conditions and b) not cause rubs or irritation when mud and much and such get in them.

I have hunted one of my horses barefoot out in Nevada- sandy soils, avoidable rocks, and if the coyote takes the hounds over the mountain, I'm not going. As for trotting down gravel roads barefoot- it depends on the gravel road, I suppose, and how tough the horse's feet are. I mostly avoid gravel when riding mine barefoot. Barefoot on asphalt is the norm for me in winter, at the walk, when trails and etc are snowed in. A little trotting, no problem. My bigger concern with lots of barefoot on asphalt is excessive wearing down of the feet, myself.

In general though, I shoe my horses for hunting, just so I know I can go anywhere at any speed without having to worry about it.

[Painted Wings]

I regularly trot on the roads especially if it's winter and the rest of the world is unrideable. I personally don't like riding on the shoulder much. You really have to watch the glass beer bottles and such that get tossed. Plus it can be unpredictable with culverts hidden in tall grass. I'll take the road over the shoulder most times.

That being said, we rarely go on roads anymore and if we do it's usually a walk or trot. Before we moved to this new territory we spent a lot of time on the roads, but rarely cantering and certainly not galloping. Whips however, as Beverly said, do what they have to do for the safety of the hounds. That's their job.

It seems to me that hunt horses last longer than horses in any other job and I am at a loss to explain it. But we have people that regularly hunt horses well into their 20s and you don't see that much in the show ring.

[Rt66Kix]

1. All my horses are barefoot. Growth will exceed wear IF the trim is correct. If you are driving or riding a horse on the pavement, and their feet are wearing down faster than they are growing, your farrier is not trimming them for barefoot success. I have experience in this area, so I'm not just talking out of my *ss.

2. I foxhunt my QH/TB in Old Mac G2 hoof boots. I will NOT gallop or canter on pavement only because I think it's an unneccessary risk. However, one of our whips and myself were talking a few weeks ago about how surefooted our horses are in hoof boots versus shoes. An inflexible, steel, slick-bottomed metal shoe will never compare with a treaded, flexible boot. We do NOT hunt in fluff-bunny territory; it's pretty rugged and rough. The G2's stay on, and give Buddy confidence on all surfaces. If we need to move fast on a paved road, I will move over to the shoulder where it's grass/pavement mix.

3. Disclaimer - I am a bit "altered" on chemical substances due to 24 hours of muscle spasms in my neck. While the above information is correct, I can not be held responsible for the tone in which it was conveyed. I just hope I'm better by Sunday AM, or else I won't be hunting. OUCH!!!!!

[wateryglen]

Hey some of us have hunted many years altered.....chemical substances are your friend! Take your pills; shut up and ride!!! :yes: :D Amazing how small coops are on Percocet!! :D

I think a little work on hard surfaces can be helpful in legging up horses for all conditions. You're supposed to get them fit on the surfaces they'll be using out hunting right? So if your hunt does trotting on gravel roads; duplicate that when conditioning your horse. I keep mine off the loose gravel/bigger rocks to avoid stone bruising. And sometimes the shoulder is better but beware broken glass/metal etc. And if it's someone's front yard? Forget about it!! I know of lots of angry landowners stories where the hunt used the side of the road and the house owner thinks of it as THEIR front yard right up to the pavement.
But I agree; I try to keep to a trot when I can. I find cantering on gravel roads in Va. creates the dilemma - how do you stop!?!! :eek::D Ashphalt? then it's side of the road if I can or right on the border if I can. In our area road work happens!
Hunt on!!!

[Painted Wings]

Yeah, we do have one fixture with a bunch of gravel roads. They are small rocks so not hard on the horse's feet. Some of my horse's are barefoot behind and never get sore, but dang don't pull up quickly, you'll put yourself into a slide. That's why it is important to leave a horse or two space between you and the horse in front of you.

[smilton]

Having had a horse fall on me on two seperate occations I am paraniod of riding on asphalt at anything remotely faster than a trot.
Came away with a few spots of road rash the first time when at a canter. A broken arm, dislocated hand, separated shoulder, cracked ribs, concussion and alot of bruising when at a gallop. I can happen really quickly and once they slip there is no helping them catch themselves. Luckily I kicked free of stirrups both times and did not land under the horse.

[kmstearns]

HI,
My TB's are barefoot and use front boa boots. I have been told that the boots might get sucked off in the mud during a hunt. It sounds like Old Mac G2 hoof boots have performed well. How are they with Jumping fences (landings) and through heavy mud? DO you boot all 4 feet or just the fronts?
Thanks :)

[ab06]

I was also raised not to gallop on pavement, but from the slickness standpoint. I'm surprised so few people on here use borium. Yes, you have to make sure your farrier is very experienced in applying it and diligent about making it even, but I'd say at least 95% of our hunt's horses have it. We do a fair amount of trotting and cantering down pavement, and once or twice a season will do some galloping if necessary. I have never, ever seen a horse with borium go down, even when jumping directly onto a road. I guess if I didn't have it, I would even hesitate to trot, as I have seen a couple of guests without borium go down at the trot on pavement when rounding a corner. Not for everyone, but to me, extremely good stuff and I wouldn't hunt without it.

For the record, my horse gets legged up for the season with roadwork for conditioning.

[JSwan]

I use borium but that sealant that people put on their driveways is awful. Even if you're just crossing it at a nice quiet walk you and the horse will be lucky to get to the other side in one piece. It's some sort of paint, I think. Horrible stuff.

[cssutton]

Borum and pads will cure every complaint I have seen here.

I also am a big believer in galloping on the shoulder, not on the asphault.

However, I am not the believer I was a few years ago.

Several years ago I was galloping down the driveay at Larry Levey's THE HILL to get to hounds that were about to get on 522. I was galloping on the shoulder and Barclay Rives was galloping on the pavement beside me. My horse stepped in some sort of drainage hole and Barclay later commented that he had never seen such trick riding.

I made it all the way to the ears of a 17 hand long necked TB and back to the saddle.

So galloping on the pavement does look better to me after that.

Claude S. Sutton, Jr.

[Painted Wings]

My horse has drive in studs that go in at the beginning of hunt season. They are small but do the trick on pavement. I used to use the screw in like for eventing but they would come unscrewed on a long hunt.

[ab06]

Borium and pads will cure every complaint I have seen here.

Oh yes, and definitely pads. Forgot about those.

[armandh]

+1 for the driven in borium studs
twice I have had my horse slide out on a hunt, once resulting in a broken foot for me.
my only hunt injury requiring professional treatment so far.

it wasn't asphalt but thawed mud over frozen.... ,!_!/' [upside down horse] OUCH

[Beverley]

Actually, I prefer the old fashioned apply the beads approach, but no one out here in Utah does that, so I use those drive in pins now, too. Back east, I had the farrier apply a bead to the heel of each hind shoe (nothing on toes, nothing on front) and together with the snow pads, that served me well. I don't much like borium on the front feet, too much stress on the joints I'm thinking- and with the traction on the back, every horse I've had knows where it is, and uses it. I would add that I have jumped coops with blue ice on takeoff and landing and am still here to talk about it, though it's not something I'd go out of my way to do. But you know how it is when hounds are runnin' good and it's either jump or get thrown out.

I have had one horse very nearly go down on pavement with borium, here in Utah, but extenuating circumstances. Riding with Pony Express on the warmblood in a July 4th parade. He's cool with marching bands, all manner of horses and horse drawn vehicles, motorcycle quadrilles, whatever. He does NOT like those little poppers that explode when thrown on the ground. And every kid on the parade route seemed to have a few dozen of those in hand. One too many landed at his feet as we rounded a corner, and he did just have a meltdown. He didn't go down all the way, but far enough that he did skin the outside of his hock- how he got himself back up from that I don't know, but I decided that intersection was a good place for him to exit, poor guy.

[cssutton]

Although at present I am using borum all the way around, it has been my observation as Beverley almost says, but obviously knows also, that a horse always slips behind first before he goes down.

Watch carefully horses that are making very sharp fast turns, as in polo or barrel racing and you will note that they always have big trouble recovering from a slip behind but have no trouble with a slip in front.

A horse who slips in front will almost always catch himself.

Claude S. Sutton, Jr.

[Acertainsmile]

Last year while out hunting we were doing some serious cantering down paved roads... however I decided to trot, and rode along the side of the road when I was able... at a check we were letting our horses graze a bit, one of the Joint Masters commented on how this was not good horsemanship (letting them graze with bits in their mouths)... I really had to bite my tongue on that comment!

[cssutton]

And why did you have to bite your tongue?

There is nothing more annoying than trying to figure out which way hounds are going, trying to hear hounds and having some horse with his nose next to your knee chewing.

Unless it is a member of the field talking.

I for one don't like horses jerking my arms out of the socket to get something to eat.

Claude S. Sutton, Jr.

If we do not wish to lose our freedom, we must learn to tolerate our
neighbor's right to freedom even though he might express that freedom
in a manner we consider to be eccentric.

[Auventera Two]

Not a foxhunter, but an endurance rider here. I canter on the shoulder of the roads frequently. Even gallop when it's the flattest, driest place available. But that's on the gravel and my horse wears hoof boots. I would never canter on pavement in shoes, holy crap that is nightmare material. I saw a horse do the splits on pavement while wearing shoes. It seemed like time stood still while that poor animal was suspended with hind legs splayed, unable to get his legs back. Completely terrifying.

I've cantered on pavement in hoof boots when I was trying to keep up with other riders at a trot, and my mare broke to canter. Never had problems but can't say that I would recommend doing it frequently, and definitely not in shoes.

My boots are outfitted in studs right now and the studs are slicker on the pavement than plain boots.

[citydog]

I for one don't like horses jerking my arms out of the socket to get something to eat.


Me neither, which is why I teach them to do it only when I drop the reins and give the command ("OK, graze!"). Obviously, this isn't done where it's going to interfere with the MFA.

[Acertainsmile]

And why did you have to bite your tongue?

There is nothing more annoying than trying to figure out which way hounds are going, trying to hear hounds and having some horse with his nose next to your knee chewing.

Unless it is a member of the field talking.

I for one don't like horses jerking my arms out of the socket to get something to eat.

Claude S. Sutton, Jr.

If we do not wish to lose our freedom, we must learn to tolerate our
neighbor's right to freedom even though he might express that freedom
in a manner we consider to be eccentric.


I guess I should have been clearer.... it was the Master who let his horse graze first! I am an avid "no grazing with a bridle on".

[Elghund2]

When I was hunting in Northern VA I had borium on the shoes because of the frequency we were on pavement but that resulted in bruised toes. When I moved to central VA I went to screw in studs.

As far as grazing is concerned, I let them graze. Its a lot cheaper to let them graze at checks then to pay for the ulcer medications. If you can't hear the hounds over a horse eating grass, its time to turn up the volume on your hearing aid.

[cssutton]

When I was hunting in Northern VA I had borium on the shoes because of the frequency we were on pavement but that resulted in bruised toes. When I moved to central VA I went to screw in studs.

As far as grazing is concerned, I let them graze. Its a lot cheaper to let them graze at checks then to pay for the ulcer medications. If you can't hear the hounds over a horse eating grass, its time to turn up the volume on your hearing aid.

Obviously you have never served as huntsman, master nor field master.

When you get separated from your hounds, the slightest noise is distracting and sometimes the difference in getting back to the hounds.

A rider constantly blowing his nose (common at checks), horse chewing the bit, one that will not stand; all very distracting and discourteous to the staff.

Not to mention coffee housing.

Claude S. Sutton, Jr.

If we do not wish to lose our freedom, we must learn to tolerate our
neighbor's right to freedom even though he might express that freedom
in a manner we consider to be eccentric.

[xeroxchick]

Sometimes it is unavoidable.
I once ruined a horse that way. She was a good hunter, but after a very long hunt and a lot of it on blacktop, the (unbeknownst to us) cist on her navicular bone made her permanantly lame. The hunting can bring out flaws that otherwise would be fine or undiscovered in backyard situations.

[5]

If the streets were made for iron the cars and bikes would not have rubber tires.