Sorry - Adequan ?

[SquishTheBunny]

Sorry I know there have been a million posts about this, but nothing recent that I could find. Looking for adequan, or something that works similar.

Just need it for "preventive" measures, horse is sound but in heavy work.
Do I do 4 doses, or 7 for the preventive route.

Where can I get it (and most cost effective).

Thanks!

[Simkie]

I use adequan monthly and skipped the loading dose period.

I believe www.allivet.com has the best price, but I don't know if they ship to Canada.

[zgllcsb]

I too was skeptical about the off-label use of Adequan being injected monthly. That is, until I spoke directly to the tech staff at Adequan. He provided me with data of on ongoing studies that clearly indicate that Adequan given monthly reduces injuries and keeps horses sounder longer. I purchase it from Horse Warehouse online with a script from my vet and both my horses now get a monthly shot. Neither have been lame, so it's purely prevatative. I also give my dogs a monthly shot as well. The equine and canine vials are the same.

[Simkie]

I too was skeptical about the off-label use of Adequan being injected monthly. Is it really off label? I thought the label directions were to do the loading dose of one vial every four days for 7 vials, then to use monthly.

I have to admit, though, that I don't think I've ever read the label! :lol:

[Mallard]

My vet recomended I try 'IChON' instead of Adequan.
My guy has a small bone spur (hock was injected October 2007) and we did the loading dose back in January and have continued on monthly.
Pony is going better than ever.
I know a few people who have had great results with the IChON.

Adequan is about $75 per dose
IChON is $45

If your horse has no 'issues' and it is just for maintenance, then I might skip the loading dose...what does your vet say?

FYI...Adequan is much cheaper in the US.
I'm from Ontario too, and I doubt if you'll find any US company that will ship the stuff up here. It's not available OTC...you'll need a prescription and shipping costs would probably negate any savings

[Twiliath]

Apparently there is a generic glucosamine available for about $70/bottle. It works just like Adequan and you give the shots intramuscularly about 1x/mo. But it's obviously a whole lot cheaper.

[SquishTheBunny]

I have used Adequan before and like the results, so I figured I would stay with it or something that is known to have similar effects.

My old horse did have some subtle gait abnormality, which is why I did a loading dose, but not follow up with monthly treatments (he was fine after the loading dose) of 4 injections.

When I first used it (about 3 years ago), Vet said loading dose of 4 injections. So I did, but then I talked to a rep and they suggested a loading dose then follow up with monthly injections. Not sure if they were just trying to sell more product or if there is actual evidence that monthly works better...? Vet didnt seem to think it would do much difference, but to go for it if I wanted to spend the $$ (but really, who WANTS to spend the $$) Maybe I should talk to a rep again, does anyone have a # or email contact?? I just worry about this guy, 10 years old, was a race horse then has had a strenuous hunter career since being off the track.

I am definately buying in the states, and having it shipped within the US so it wont be so $$$. Travel there frequently, so it shouldnt be a problem.

[RAyers]

Apparently there is a generic glucosamine available for about $70/bottle. It works just like Adequan and you give the shots intramuscularly about 1x/mo. But it's obviously a whole lot cheaper.

Considering that I get Adequan directly from my vet for $40 a bottle, I go with that.

And, no, you can not say the "generic" works just like Adequan. No study or examination has ever proven that. Just because it has the same chemical formula, does NOT mean it is the same molecule in both structure or molecular weight. Peggy, our evil chem prof, has explained that previously. Hence, why folks say it is just like Adequan without ever proving a thing; take you money and leave you and your horse at risk.

Reed

[JB]

I too was skeptical about the off-label use of Adequan being injected monthly.
There is nothing off-label about using Adequan weekly, or monthly, or every other month, or yearly. Off-label would be, say, squirting it into his mouth. The frequency of the use is not a "do it every 4 days for 7 shots or else". That is what has seemed to give the best results in studies. Not everyone needs that. Sometimes monthly after the loading dose is needed, sometimes weekly. Certainly not off-label.

Apparently there is a generic glucosamine available for about $70/bottle. It works just like Adequan and you give the shots intramuscularly about 1x/mo. But it's obviously a whole lot cheaper.

Generic glucosamine is nowhere near the same as Adequan.

[Fharoah]

I would think the more you use it the more benefit. My injured gelding gets adequan every two weeks. I gave it weekly for the first three months but does get pricey. I am in canada too. I would think monthly is reasonable for a sound horse.

[zgllcsb]

Off label is when the product is used or administered for something beyond what it's FDA approval was for. So yes, if you are using Adequan monthly for a horse that does not have an injury and do not do the "loading dose", it is considered off label. There is nothing wrong with using it in this capacity. In fact, the tech from Adequan told me that they are hoping after some clinical trials at thoroughbred farms are complete, that they will get this new indication. Although Adequan is already being regularly used prophylactically by many horse owners, they would now be able to advertise it as a "once-a-month" product.

My concern was that some vets were simply pushing Adequan to get a new flow of monthly income without the medical evidence to prove a monthly dose was truly beneficial. My vet wrote the script, called it in, and we take care of the monthly shots ourselves. Off label or on label - a monthly shot of Adequan is well worth the $$ spent.

As for generics, having worked in pharmaceuticals for years, they can be terrific. There is a range of efficacy compared to the non-generic, but for many it can be a great cost savings. I have heard wonderful things about generic Adequan, but I'm not prepared to inject it into my horses at this time.

[Simkie]

As for generics, having worked in pharmaceuticals for years, they can be terrific. There is a range of efficacy compared to the non-generic, but for many it can be a great cost savings. I have heard wonderful things about generic Adequan, but I'm not prepared to inject it into my horses at this time.

There ARE NO generics for Adequan!

The "generics" people talk about--Ichon or Chondroprotec--are not even labeled for IM use. They are labeled for JOINT LAVAGE and WOUND DRESSING.

[JSwan]

Reed - I read that a study was done on the use of MSM as a preventative and it "worked". For the life of me I can't remember where I read that or the details. Do you have any idea?

There is nothing off-label about using Adequan weekly, or monthly, or every other month, or yearly. Off-label would be, say, squirting it into his mouth. The frequency of the use is not a "do it every 4 days for 7 shots or else". That is what has seemed to give the best results in studies. Not everyone needs that. Sometimes monthly after the loading dose is needed, sometimes weekly. Certainly not off-label.



Generic glucosamine is nowhere near the same as Adequan.

[JB]

There ARE NO generics for Adequan!

The "generics" people talk about--Ichon or Chondroprotec--are not even labeled for IM use. They are labeled for JOINT LAVAGE and WOUND DRESSING.

And, they are not even the same chemical structure. I believe one of them is technically the same chemical, but the structure is different, therefore NOT the same.

[SquishTheBunny]

I dont care about on label or off label.... vincristine is off label for ANY animals, yet saves animals lives all the time. Metacam is off label for cats, but I know tons of cats who benefit from it. Off label really means nothing.

What I DO care about, is giving the MINIMUM effecive dose. Maybe I will try 4 vials loading dose, then monthly there after.....??

[JB]

I dont care about on label or off label.... vincristine is off label for ANY animals, yet saves animals lives all the time. Metacam is off label for cats, but I know tons of cats who benefit from it. Off label really means nothing.
Off-label, depending on the circumstance, can mean a HUGE thing. At best, it works for what you wanted to use it for. Middle ground is it does nothing. At worst you harm the animal. AND, if harm comes to the animal from the off-label use of a drug (it chondroprotec IM), then you as the consumer have absolutely no recourse against the manufacturer.

So yeah, you should care about off-label use.

What I DO care about, is giving the MINIMUM effecive dose. Maybe I will try 4 vials loading dose, then monthly there after.....??
The research is done on 7 vials every 4 days - that's why it's labeled that way. So if you're going to give it a try, that's what I would do. Now, if you see great improvement after dose 4, then you might reconsider and go weekly for the other 3 instead of 4 days. *I* probably would not go monthly after only 4 loading doses. 7, sure. But that's just me ;)

[grayarabpony]

A local vet told me that she's seen the best results using the 7 doses/ every fourth day loading protocol, followed by once a month use.

[JB]

A local vet told me that she's seen the best results using the 7 doses/ every fourth day loading protocol, followed by once a month use.
And that would be expected, as that is what the research found, which is why it's labeled like it is :)

[grayarabpony]

Yes. Honestly, I would just use the "new and improved" loading protocol. It's been shown to be more effective than 4 doses once a week or whatever the old protocol was.

[Mallard]

Nowhere in my post did I say that IChON was the generic version of Adequan.

I simply said that - on my vet's advice - we tried IChON.
He explained that it was off-label usage, but that he - and many other vets - had been seeing comparable-to-Adequan results.
At nearly half the cost.

We have been using it for nearly a year and the change in the pony is amazing.

Many, many drugs...human, equine, canine, feline...are used 'off label' with good results.

To the OP...that's wonderful you can benefit from travelling in the US.
What are the restrictions on this medication when crossing back into Canada?

[Peggy]

My understanding is that generic = same chemical structure so there is no generic Adequan.

A small difference in chemical structure can make a big difference in functionality. Consider cellulose and the molecules that make up starch. Both are "polyglucose" but humans cannot break down the celluose and utilize it (think fiber).

The comparison between the N-acetylglucosamine and Adequan is more like the relationship between sucrose (AKA table sugar) and celluose.

My vet said she's seen some good results with the N-acetylglucosamine, but not as consistently and with as many horses as she has with Adequan.

[SquishTheBunny]

Off-label, depending on the circumstance, can mean a HUGE thing. At best, it works for what you wanted to use it for. Middle ground is it does nothing. At worst you harm the animal. AND, if harm comes to the animal from the off-label use of a drug (it chondroprotec IM), then you as the consumer have absolutely no recourse against the manufacturer.

So yeah, you should care about off-label use.


Quote:
What I DO care about, is giving the MINIMUM effecive dose. Maybe I will try 4 vials loading dose, then monthly there after.....??

The res earch is done on 7 vials every 4 days - that's why it's labeled that way. So if you're going to give it a try, that's what I would do. Now, if you see great improvement after dose 4, then you might reconsider and go weekly for the other 3 instead

But....thats the thing.... in Canada, 3 years ago the "on label" dose was 4 injections, 5 days apart. Assuming it has since changed to match US, but maybe not...? Just because it is on label, doesnt mean it is the most effective.

[JB]

That's why I said "depending on the circumstances". Meaning, using chondroprotec IM is a blatant off-label use and you are taking your chances. I personally don't consider 1 shot every 7 days of Adequan an "off label use", since it's still IM. Yes, the research has shown that every 4 days for 7 shots works better than every 7 days :)

[Ritazza]

Where on earth are you guys getting your Adequan from?? Here's it's $45/bottle! Am I just lucky?

[JB]

$45/bottle puts it at $315 for 7, and I get a 7-vial box for $300 from my vet.

[Simkie]

Where on earth are you guys getting your Adequan from?? Here's it's $45/bottle! Am I just lucky?


About $41 here: http://www.allivet.com/Adequan-Equine-p/10041-7.htm

For those in CO and WY, you can get it at Mountain Vet. I pay about $38/vial when I buy 7.

[poor-horse]

That's why I said "depending on the circumstances". Meaning, using chondroprotec IM is a blatant off-label use and you are taking your chances.

I've been "taking my chances" by blatantly using chondroprotec IM off-label for over a year and the results in my dressage horse are wonderful!!!

[JB]

I've been "taking my chances" by blatantly using chondroprotec IM off-label for over a year and the results in my dressage horse are wonderful!!!

So have a lot of other people. Others have used it with no results, but dramatic results with Adequan. Someone here (RAyers? Ghazzu?) said "if they do well on chondroprotec, how well could they do with Adequan" LOL I'm not saying don't use it, not saying it never works, I'm just saying IF you run into a medical problem, you're on your own.

[Bogie]

Apparently there is a generic glucosamine available for about $70/bottle. It works just like Adequan and you give the shots intramuscularly about 1x/mo. But it's obviously a whole lot cheaper.

Generic glucosamine (probably Acetyl-D) is much less expensive but it does not work the same as Adequan because it is not the same thing. Adequan is a compound and works differently. My vet said that very few vets now prescribe it because it's not as effective . . . I do know a few people who use it, but generally in conjunction with another joint supplement.

[ZiggyStardust]

My first post after lurking for months! JSwan, I found information on a Spanish study of MSM supplementation in horses (in conjunction with Vit C) when I was once again trying to find out if all those oral supplements are actually backed by any research. This one seemed encouraging:

http://www.horsetalk.co.nz/news/2008/12/005.shtml

The other night I also actually found most of the research paper (or at least a really great direct summary) but can't seem to find it again.