Hoof Gurus ??? re: Coronary band

[kahjul]

So, my clyde X (shown dressage) is having funny issues w/her coronary band. She was barefoot until almost exactly a year ago when a new trainer asked if I would try her in shoes. She was sound without them, but I have to admit, moved even better, she has truly amazing movement, but lengthenings, etc got stronger with the shoes on. Recently, we had some minor lameness issues and did some xrays. The xrays showed an irregular bump and blocking showed some issues in the fetlock (same area as the bump,) but nothing that involved her hooves. BUT, the vet was concerned that her coronary line is not straight-not even close. The shoer (who also works for my vet) was there during the xrays and agreed but didn't seem to have a reason for the change. He was aware of it and had made a few changes to the shoe job with no positive change to the coronary band. The vet asked if I could give my mare some time with nakey feet and see if there was improvement. The shoes were pulled yesterday and the shoer said, "You check that coronary band and tell me if you don't see improvement within 48 hours". Well, I thought that was crazy, 48 hours???? But, this morning (22 hours after the shoes were pulled) her coronary band is almost straight. I suspect by tomorrow it will be.
Now, this is a very good, very well recommended farrier. I think he does a great job, he shows up without me (so I don't have to take time off work), my horse likes him, he's always been kind with her, BUT WTF???? what causes the coronary band to change shape/direction? BTW it was the same in both front feet. No change in the hinds.

[vickienme]

I personally prefer barefoot. Horses hooves are like people's feet. None are perfect. They can flex as they need to when they are barefoot. The shoes restrict movement and blood flow. Horses have much healthier feet, includes
the bones inside, cornet band etc. when they are barefoot and trimmed properly. I would say the shoes were tweaking his feet in a way that was not
natural for him and so the bump which would be inflammation is my guess.
See if you can just get the trim that will enable the horse to move better and not use constricting metal shoes.

[Watermark Farm]

I think they call that a "push up" and yes, it can disappear within hours. It makes you realize that the hoof capsule is not some static box. It really moves and changes.

It sounds like your horse would do well without shoes. Your farrier sounds like a good egg and good farriers are thrilled to have their clients' horses go barefoot. Could you try some front boots if you are needing some extra protection for schooling? I am about to take my dressage horse out of shoes and am going to use some easyboot epics on him.

[ChocoMare]

The change in coronary band level is usually referred to as "jamming."

But if your Clyde-X's hooves are anything like my Clyde-X's, then leave the shoes behind.

Penny mare has amazing rock crushers. I've ridden her over the sharpest gravel, on concrete, on pavement, etc. for miles and her feet just get better. (I do trim myself, tho, so can keep up her between my trimmer's check ups. If I didn't her bars would be huge! :lol:)

Would loff to see some pictures. I have a hoof fetish :winkgrin:

[Daydream Believer]

It actually is not the shoes causing the jamming in the coronet band but rather the trim is not right. I'm all for horses going shoeless when possible but I wanted to mention that. Blame the trim in this case and a jammed coronet band is not limited to shod horses.

When a horse is barefoot, they relieve pressure on the quarters by flaring, chipping and breaking off hoof. It's also a sign of a bad trim but generally they can relieve the jamming themselves if given enough time. In shoes, the shoe prevents the hoof from self correcting so you might be more likely to see problems from that.

I've seen a coronet band relax in only a few minutes during a trim when a correction was made that corrected an imbalance that was causing distortion of the coronet band.

[BornToRide]

Could also have something to do with peripheral hoofwall loading thanks to the shoes. The coronet band is very dynamic: http://www.hoofrehab.com/coronet.htm

[BumbleBee]

I have seen this also to fix it I have had sucess trimming to correct the jamming then walking the horse around before reapplying the shoes.

I could be wrong(I am just an apprentice) but from what I have witnessed it can happen on a correct trim if the cycle goes to long.

[Alexie]

what is causing this jamming? is it some part of the internal strucures inside the hoof being pushed upwards or outwards and causing the bulge?

how does it work?

[Daydream Believer]

what is causing this jamming? is it some part of the internal strucures inside the hoof being pushed upwards or outwards and causing the bulge?

how does it work?

It is the hoof wall itself pushing upwards that causes the jammed coronet band. Think of it for a minute...the hoof wall grows down from the coronet band and changes in the length and balance of the wall cause changes in the coronet band.

[Alexie]

they relieve pressure on the quarters by flaring, chipping and breaking off hoof. It's also a sign of a bad trim but generally they can relieve the jamming themselves if given enough time.

thanks for your answer Daydream, from the OP and the above, am i right in thinking the bulge lies horizontally and follows along the coronary band?

this is caused by the wall being too upright?

am i miles off or going in the right direction?

sorry, i've never come across this problem before and it's very interesting

[Daydream Believer]

thanks for your answer Daydream, from the OP and the above, am i right in thinking the bulge lies horizontally and follows along the coronary band?

this is caused by the wall being too upright?

am i miles off or going in the right direction?

sorry, i've never come across this problem before and it's very interesting

Not so much as being too much upright but rather too much wall there..more a height issue. It may look level from the bottom to the farrier/trimmer but what the jammed quarters tell you is that you have too long of a wall in that area. The coronet band is so elastic that it will push upwards in an attempt to give the horse a level hoof. A trimmer might "relieve" the quarters by lowering that area slightly...not overtrimming there shortening the wall and allowing the coronary band to relax. You would be surprised how "elastic" that coronet band is and how quickly it can change.

I didn't have time to spend a lot of time looking...Here is a pic of a jammed coronet band. Can you see how much upward strain is on that area?

I borrowed this pic from Irishcas who posted them on another thread in a shoeing method discussion.

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk64/irishcas/Parelli/Savvilicious-Rightfront.jpg

This is a normal coronet band. This horse has a clubby LF..it is one that I trim.

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l215/ssluss/WBclub1.jpg

These coronet bands show lateral imbalance (side to side) as well as jammed quarters on the LF inside of that hoof.

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l215/ssluss/Club6.jpg

Same horse post trim. This is a first trim I did on a client horse. Can you see how different the coronet band appears? You can even see a change in his stance. It's still not perfect but it's a work in process and I did not have a lot of hoof to work with.

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l215/ssluss/Club9.jpg

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l215/ssluss/Club8.jpg

[BornToRide]

This is a normal coronet band. This horse has a clubby LF..it is one that I trim.

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l2...ss/WBclub1.jpg (http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l215/ssluss/WBclub1.jpg)

Just as a side note - this horse is not even enough in his body. He tends to load the dominant right fore more and the left front not enough, hence the clubby left front.

The most effective way to get on top of this is for the owner to strengthen the horse's weaker side, so the horse becomes more balanced overall and loads the fronts more evenly. :yes:

Otherwise , as trimmers , we'll only be fighting an uphill battle with this. Either you'll need to trim this hoof more frequently to get the heels down more or be more agressive when you trim and take the heels down enough, but this can potentially cause some soreness due to decontraction, as those hooves often are contracted as well. :)

[Dune]

Just as a side note - this horse is not even enough in his body. He tends to load the dominant right fore more and the left front not enough, hence the clubby left front.

The most effective way to get on top of this is for the owner to strengthen the horse's weaker side, so the horse becomes more balanced overall and loads the fronts more evenly. :yes:

I'm assuming this horse is mature. Are you suggesting that through exercise one can fix a club foot?


Otherwise , as trimmers , we'll only be fighting an uphill battle with this. Either you'll need to trim this hoof more frequently to get the heels down more or be more agressive when you trim and take the heels down enough, but this can potentially cause some soreness due to decontraction, as those hooves often are contracted as well.


Are you here suggesting that one correct a club foot in a mature horse?


l

[Alexie]

thanks for those pictures and explanation Daydream, will take some time to look and make sense of it

much appreciated :)

[BornToRide]

Dune you are assuming that all upright hooves like the one in the photo is a true club foot. Most are not and simply a result of body imbalances - unfortunately this is still a little known fact among horse professionals, vets included because most do not have a very good understanding of the musculo-skeletal system, its portural habits due to side dominance and how this can affect hoof form and wear.

Simply observe horses - in pretty much all cases you will find a flatter/wider foot on the dominant front leg and a more upright hoof on the non-dominant side. From what I have observed as a trimmer and massage therapist this is VERY consistent among horses. To verify I also often check the muscle development over the shoulders. The msucles over the dominant shoulder are generally also much more developed than on the non-dominant, weaker side.

This also corresponds with what canter lead preferrence the horse has - right sided horses usually prefer the left lead canter, as they like to use the stronger right hind for strike off and balance, while left sided horse prefer the opposite.

The more even the front hooves naturally generally are in size (not made by trimming) , the more balanced side to side a horse usually is too.

[George Myers]

BTR
Is this the case with ferals?

[George Myers]

How do you differentiate a 'true club foot' from a boxy upright one?

[BornToRide]

BTR
Is this the case with ferals?I don't work with ferals, so I could not tell you - I just know the front hoof shape differences are common in domestic horses to varrying degrees and some are worse than others and respond to correct trimming and body work that evens the bosy out more.

Side dominance influences how the front hooves are loaded. Loading makes the hoof expand . The more it is loaded the more it tends to expand.

Even in humans you can see the developmental difference realted to side dominance - the dominant hand is usually bigger.

If you want to learn more and see supporting photos , look for the upcoming article on side dominance of the musculo-skeletal system and hoof form in the Horse's Hoof and the Natural Horse Magazine :)

How do you differentiate a 'true club foot' from a boxy upright one?
Have not come across one yet. The ones I have seen were simply left too high in the heels, in other words not taken down enough when trimmed, which seems to be a common problem among some trimmers and farriers.

[Dune]

Dune you are assuming that all upright hooves like the one in the photo is a true club foot. Most are not and simply a result of body imbalances - unfortunately this is still a little known fact among horse professionals, vets included because most do not have a very good understanding of the musculo-skeletal system, its portural habits due to side dominance and how this can affect hoof form and wear.

Simply observe horses - in pretty much all cases you will find a flatter/wider foot on the dominant front leg and a more upright hoof on the non-dominant side. From what I have observed as a trimmer and massage therapist this is VERY consistent among horses. To verify I also often check the muscle development over the shoulders. The msucles over the dominant shoulder are generally also much more developed than on the non-dominant, weaker side.

This also corresponds with what canter lead preferrence the horse has - right sided horses usually prefer the left lead canter, as they like to use the stronger right hind for strike off and balance, while left sided horse prefer the opposite.

The more even the front hooves naturally generally are in size (not made by trimming) , the more balanced side to side a horse usually is too.


I'm not assuming anything, I simply asked a couple of questions and I'm not sure that you answered either one. :confused:

[BornToRide]

The word "assume" was meant more in a general way, as most people assume this is what a club foot looks like without thinking further about it.

For example, it is widely "assumed" that a club foot is caused by a contracted tendon, yet tendons cannot contract, only muscles can. Tendons can artificially be shortened due to injury, but muscles usually make up/compensate for this, unless it is very severe. At the other end, tendons can overstretch and lose their elasticity, creating joint instability.

If a club foot is caused by a tendon that is naturally too short, the horse would be affected at birth and it would probably be very obvious.

If I pick up a "clubby" looking hoof and I see about 2 inch deep collateral grooves at the back of the heels, it is an indication to me that


The horse perhaps is not heel loading enough for some reason, or in other words wants to toe load ( can be due to weakness at the back of the hoof)
The horse is not loading this hoof enough due to side dominance
the hoof has not been trimmed correctly (taken down enough) during prior trimmings
All of the aboveAll the above are VERY common and can cause the flexor muscles to chronically shorten, pretty much like what happens to women who wear high heels all the time. They chronically shorten their calf muscles - the same principle applies to horse's flexor muscles as well.

True club feet because tendons that are too short are very rare and usually pretty obvious right at birth, unless it happens later in life , thanks to a traumatic injury that shortens the tendon too much.

[Daydream Believer]

The horse in the picture I posted has a history of a club foot since it was a foal. It got contracted tendons which caused the club foot and was therapeutically shod. Obviously it did not cure the problem. I've got the heel much lower since I've been trimming it and the horse is a lot more comfortable and back in work now. This owner has had her horse given body therapy, chiropractics, and has done all of that. I just don't believe that in every case, a club foot can be cured.

Xrays show that there is perfect alignment of that coffin bone to the hoof wall and it is naturally at a steeper angle than the other hoof which is normal. I really doubt it's "curable" at this point short of cutting ligaments and doing surgery which this owner is not willing to do to a 4 year old performance horse that is sound and in work with one foot just steeper than the other. .

[George Myers]

The horse in the picture I posted has a history of a club foot since it was a foal. It got contracted tendons which caused the club foot and was therapeutically shod. Obviously it did not cure the problem. I've got the heel much lower since I've been trimming it and the horse is a lot more comfortable and back in work now. This owner has had her horse given body therapy, chiropractics, and has done all of that. I just don't believe that in every case, a club foot can be cured.

Xrays show that there is perfect alignment of that coffin bone to the hoof wall and it is naturally at a steeper angle than the other hoof which is normal. I really doubt it's "curable" at this point short of cutting ligaments and doing surgery which this owner is not willing to do to a 4 year old performance horse that is sound and in work with one foot just steeper than the other. .

Personally I'd say that - from that photo - both hooves are too steep - and certainly the growth lines indicate the LF heel isn't being loaded.

Alignment of P3 to the hoof wall just means there's no visible separation - yet. But if the pedal bone is sitting at too steep an angle there has to be an unnatural loading on the toe - and depending on the horse's build, way of going, work living conditions etc, chances are it will cause problems eventually.

And as to 'naturally' steeper - as BTR says, its rare for a congential deformity to cause this - mostly it's acquired.

Muscle contracture in young horses usually responds well and pretty quickly to therapy - as long as the horse has a comfortable heel to drop back onto. In your horse's case, if it has a comfortable heel and adequate toe height - at 4 years of age it should be able to regain a normal hoof form - without resorting to surgery.

[BornToRide]

Daydream, tendons really cannot contract - that's unfortunately a myth that won't die. If the flexor tendon would be indeed too short, you would not get an improvement with trimming.

Do you have any further history on this horse, like was he able to extensively run as a foal or was he pushed as a halter horse with little movement? He looks like to me like a QH halter type horse.

Although I do not agree with Dr.Rooney on everything, he does confirm many observations (and possible root causes) I have made in clients' horses:

I have not encountered reports of stumpy foot in Standardbred horses. Yearling tendon shortening does occur in Standardbreds. Since Standardbreds share genetic heritage with a number of other breeds which do have stumpy foot, one can speculate that it is the singular attention and care given to the feet of many of these horses which could be the protective and/or preventive factor.
Further to that point, anecdotal evidence suggests that stumpy foot is more common in horses used for purposes other than racing. That could be related to the more frequent trimming and shoeing of racing horses, both Standardbred and Thoroughbred. Racing horses are exercised and examined frequently and kept in usually thinner condition than is typical of weekend and show horses. Hood et al 1997, showed with force plate studies that horses over time tend to bear weight preferentially on the left or the right side and tend to shift weight on the diagonal. They suggested this could be related, presumably, to genetically determined “handedness.” Horses predisposed to stumpy foot of the right fore, for example, could be bearing more weight for more of the time on the right fore and the left hind since weight on the leg is a factor in the early stages of the development of stumpy foot.



Owen (1975) observed the development of stumpy hoof conformation in foals confined for long periods to horse boxes during bad weather. The foals obsessively pawed the ground, wearing away the toe and so producing the high hoof angle which allowed shortening of the deep flexor tendon. Again, though not specifically discussed by Owen, these foals would stand back on the large angle hoof and exacerbate the condition as described above. Lungwitz (1910) mentions lack of attention to trimming the feet of foals running barefoot as a causative factor. This is akin to the Owen’s cases.

http://www.anvilmag.com/farrier/910f1.htm

[Dune]

My questions were still not answered and I have yet another. What is your definition of "clubby" versus a true club foot?

[Daydream Believer]

It's a WB and no it was not "pushed." It also is badly back at the knee so her conformation is not the greatest.

Here is what her hoof used to look like..THAT George is loading the toe...and was due to her previous hoof care provider. The hoof xrays as a true club.

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l215/ssluss/LF3-24.jpg

About six months later with gradual correction:

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l215/ssluss/WBclub1.jpg

My point in posting these pics was not to take the discussion OT and discuss how to correct a "club" foot but to show a "normal" coronet band. I think the pics illustrate that OK.

[matryoshka]

Jambing in the Coronet Band: It might help to think of a the hoof wall as soft tissue. Walls that are too long at the quarters will push upwards on the coronet band. If the wall is relieved there (some refer to it as scooping the qarters), the hoof wall settles back down and the coronet band straightens out. I'm not a shoer, but I've seen it recommended for farriers who encounter jambing of the coronet to trim the hoof and allow it to settle while trimming the other feet. Then reevaluate before applying the shoe.

I've seen this problem in the coronet at other spots besides the quarters, depending on where the walls are imbalanced. It's one of the things we look for when evaluating feet before we start working on them.

Club Feet: Dr. Rooney has a good article on horseshoes.com: http://www.horseshoes.com/advice/anatomyandfunction/rooney4/clubfoot.htm

Personally, when I see mismatched feet I like to look closer before deciding whether it is a club foot or simply has too high a heel. The pics DDB just posted, though, are pretty obvious. There are some signs upon closer examination that a foot isn't going to remodel exactly how we'd like with trimming. One thing I've noted about club feet is that the frog is often some distance from the heel bulb. It should start just below the bulbs. But on "clubby" feet, it often starts some distance below it.

Another difference is that a foot with too long a heel (one that grows upright, not forward), chalky sole can be removed at the seat of corn to nearly normal heel height. I don't usually trim that far in one shot, since it could cause the horse discomfort and I like to give his legs time to adjust to a lower heel. With club feet, the sole that can be exfoliated does not go nearly as far, which means we have a deeper collateral groove.

Also, the bars may be more robust on a club foot. I've seen what looks like bars growing all the way around the frog, depending on the severity of the club foot. The steep ones seem to have bars that grow all the way around. I don't know exactly what causes this around the apex of the frog where there shouldn't be any.

With a hoof that simply has a high heel, a good trimmer can do wonders. With a club, I personally don't believe we can "fix" it through trimming. The problem lies higher, and the club is a symptom of the problem. For each horse, the reason for the formation of a club foot can be different. I've seen them happen in racehorses after an injury to the leg or shoulder. "Something" causes the DDFT to pull the P3 in that foot to point downward and grow a high heel. You'll see lots of theories about what causes them, but keep in mind that they are theories and not fact. Facts can be proven, but many theories cannot.

Disclaimer: I'm a trimmer with 4 years of experience. Not a veterinarian. I took a traditional farrier course (used Butler's book as a text) and learned the basics and shoeing and trimming in order to trim my own horses. When I found that the trim taught didn't work well for my flat-footed OTTB's, I researched the barefoot trimming protocols until I found what worked for my horse. It turns out that those ideas also work for many other horses. I offered to trim horses for a few friends, and then a business grew through referrals. ;)

IMHO, if one is going to listen to opinions from people on the internet, it is important to know what their level of experience is and where they got their education about hooves. Come to think of it, if one is hiring somebody to work on one's horse, the same questions should be asked. :yes:

[BornToRide]

Here is what her hoof used to look like..THAT George is loading the toe...and was due to her previous hoof care provider. The hoof xrays as a true club.

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l2...uss/LF3-24.jpg (http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l215/ssluss/LF3-24.jpg)

About six months later with gradual correction:

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l2...ss/WBclub1.jpg (http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l215/ssluss/WBclub1.jpg)

Nice work! - I'll be working on a similar case this morning - 16.1 h QH with very upright conformation and literally 4 inch front hooves, now diagnosed with navicular. He wore egg bar shoes for many, many years, while the heels were not trimmed down as they should.

[matryoshka]

Here's a horse I worked on last summer. He was here for 3 months and I could not get him sound. It turns out the lateral wing of the P3 on the club foot had been fractured at some point. My understanding is that he stumbled over a jump and came up lame, and I'd guess that is when it happened. The horse had been shod in a way to try to make the hooves match in length. Horse was being used in lessons even though he was off--beginner riders apparently can't tell the difference. The instructor sure should have known! The horse had pulled the shoe on the club foot a couple of days before these pics were taken.

I don't have "after" pics to share. As I said, I could not get him sound. He also had lateral rotations in the joints of the leg. Note that the joints are not alligned in the pic from the rear. The heel decontracted for me, but that's about all I could accomplish. He also had a bad abscess which had resolved just before he left. He went to a place that had access to Dr. O'Grady. Last I heard, I had been blamed for the "contracture" of the DDFT.

I'm sharing because it is a good pic of a club that also shows the bottom.

[Melelio]

matryoshka those are great (though sad) pics of why it's so important for us to balance our trim and keep the heels level...poor horse. And poor you. Always gotta be a scapegoat somewhere...sorry you were it.

[Peter026]

The horse had been shod in a way to try to make the hooves match in length.

To shoe a horse with a club foot, the club foot should be equal to the sum of the good foot, ie, if the good foot is 5"x 5" the club foot should be shod @ 41/2" X 51/2".

[caballus]

To shoe a horse with a club foot, the club foot should be equal to the sum of the good foot, ie, if the good foot is 5"x 5" the club foot should be shod @ 41/2" X 51/2". Are these numbers and advice straight from the horse's mouth?

[matryoshka]

Thanks Melelio. I deserve criticism for ever taking on this horse. I did not know enough and I should have had rads from the get-go. Definitely made mistakes, poor horse. I also found out that hoof boots don't work well on club feet like this and he'd go through a pad in one day. I never expected to get him sound enough for riding, but I thought I could get him pasure sound long enough to grow out the lamellar wedge and decontract the heels. Got the second two goals, but totally missed on the first. Poor horse.

What I learned was essential: do not muck around with things I do not understand (I thought I did when I started with him). I hope Dr. O was able to help this horse. If I hadn't been blamed, I would have kept up with his progress. If I'd been close enough geographically, I'd have taken my lumps and asked to be present when Dr. O evaluated the horse and for subsequent farrier visits. Didn't work out that way.

[Peter026]

Are these numbers and advice straight from the horse's mouth?


These are an example,it does not have to be the exact measurements I put up, as long as the sum of both feet are equal the horse will be more balanced.

Your sarcasm and ignorance is duly noted

[Rick Burten]

Last I heard, I had been blamed for the "contracture" of the DDFT.

What mental giant was responsible for that accusation?

Thanks Melelio. I deserve criticism for ever taking on this horse.

No, you don't.

I should have had rads from the get-go.

It would have been a good idea. Did you ask for them? If not, you've learned a valuable lesson.

Definitely made mistakes, poor horse.

We all make mistakes. Its what we learn from them that defines us.

I never expected to get him sound enough for riding,

Why?

No reason to beat yourself up over this anymore. You've learned some valuable lessons and horses you work on from now on will be the ultimate beneficiaries.

Just remember that axiomatically, in life we win a few, loose a few and some get rained out........... :)

[matryoshka]

Thanks Rick. Failure is a harsh teacher. What I heard is what the owner thought from what Dr. O said. So it wasn't directly from O'Grady. I don't know whether he looked at any of the pics I sent along so he could see the "starting" point. I could have asked him myself at the Wellshod clinic, but I chickened out. It was over a year ago anyway. And I DID learn a lot. This horse's "live" sole was not level. The lateral side hit first, hard, then he'd pronate. Nothing I did could get him close to flat, and I probably took him too short trying to accomplish it. Won't do that again.

The horse's posture indicated he had some other issues, possibly because of long-term unsoundness on the bad foot and continued use in riding lessons (jumping, no less). At the point I had the horse, I didn't know an osteopath. She could have helped with the body soreness.

I'll be sending you pics soon of a filly with 4 club feet. She's up on her toes in the back end--dorsal walls are vertical. Mustang yearling that was badly malnourished (freshly weaned) when purchased from the BLM last year. You can add those pics to your collection. I talked to a veterinary surgeon about her, and he doesn't give good odds for getting her comfortable on those hind legs.

[caballus]

These are an example,it does not have to be the exact measurements I put up, as long as the sum of both feet are equal the horse will be more balanced.

Your sarcasm and ignorance is duly noted My point being, what if the HOOF tells you something different? Will you follow what the hoof is indicating or will you follow your equation?

[Tree]

The figures appear to be related to total surface area amount vs balance relating to angles. My concern would be that the 5 1/2" exceeds the other foot by 1/2" and may or may not "balance" the timing but that the extra 1/2" would stress the toe of the steeper foot.

Tree

[matryoshka]

The horse in the pics I posted had a nasty lemellar (sp?) wedge. I don't like when the dorsal wall doesn't hug the coffin bone--other than that condition being painful, he's got less laminar surface keeping the P3 attached to the hoof.

Also, even though the horse did not head-bob at the walk, his footfalls were uneven. When I trimmed him, his footfalls would get more even, but I couldn't get him sound. He would head bob on a circle, both directions but worse when going left (club foot is LF). He felt uneven on a straight line (I rode him before I took him on).

[Peter026]

My point being, what if the HOOF tells you something different? Will you follow what the hoof is indicating or will you follow your equation?

You don't have to believe me, but this is the equation reached by such exalted Farriers as:

Simon Curtis FWCF
David (Slim) Symons FWCF (Hons) Who trained me by the way in the early 70s
Both of these Farriers are recognised the world over for their expertise

[kahjul]

I was out of town with no computer-wow did this go astray!!! Anyways, to those who answered my question (and some did) thanks a bunch. it gives me some info for when I talk to my farrier.

[matryoshka]

Sorry Kahjul. We went from jambing to club feet. I don't know if you noticed the coronet bands on the club foot pics, but there is jambing there as well.

[kahjul]

Yes, I did see that pic and it is exactly what I'm talking about. She is still footsore-not lame, but ouchy, from having her shoes pulled. I'm going her some time off, so I'm just letting her deal in the pasture. I'm curious to see if the coronary band gets completely level soon. It's still the same as it was the day after the shoes were pulled, almost level, but not quite. I haven't decided what I'll do as far as shoes/barefoot. There are several factors (for me) for either way.

[matryoshka]

This could start an argument with the shoers on here, but some of us "relieve" the walls at the quarters to allow them to settle. This might allow that bulge to relax. When you next look at her feet, follow the horn tubules down from the bulge to the bottom of the wall. If this is at the quarters, then lowering the walls there might help it relax even more.

Some farriers call it gouging the quarters, depending on whether they are for or against the practice. ;) You can ask your farrier about it when he's out there the next time. If he doesn't know what is meant by relieving the quarters, perhaps "scooping" or "gouging" would work. He might be interested in trying it, or he might not.

I hope she's over her soreness soon. How sore is she? Is she okay in the pasture or is she gimping everywhere? Is soft footing okay but rocks difficult for her?

[kahjul]

She's on a 1/4 acre with soft footing that we drag often. If there is a rock out there, I haven't found it. She was rediculously sore the first day, but now you can only see it when she trots around, she's just a bit shorter, looks like when I go get the mail barefoot! I suspect she'll be fine next week. I'll talk with the farrier about the quarters-that is exactly where the jambing occurs and without shoes, she flares terribly there.