sound horse, lame on flexions

[LisaW-B]

Overall sound teenaged horse, was lame on both lower front leg flexions, which surprised everyone involved. We x-rayed the hoof that flexed worse. The findings are a chip or chips on the coffin bone on the left front, and OCD on the coffin bone. I did not look at the right front. No signs of ringbone or navicular changes. Any thoughts on the future risk to soundness??

[Simkie]

Depending on where the chips are, they may eventually wear completely through the cartilage and down to the bone. At that point, the horse will go quite lame and it will be difficult to impossible to get the horse sound again.

I'm surprised he's not lame without flexions. Is he a particularly stoic horse?

[deltawave]

Why'd you do flexions? My old mare would have flexed positive from the time I bought her, more than likely, but competed until the age of 21 without a lame step. IMO flexion tests are sort of like Pandora's box--look only if you don't mind finding something. Has the horse had normal tests before and this is new? If so, it's probably a concern. If not, I wouldn't immediately look to borrow trouble if the horse is comfortable and going along well. :)

[katarine]

eh, my 14 YO QH will crawl out of the farrier's lap if he's cranked up by his hind toes- and gimp off like a total cripple if folded up tight for flexion tests...but he's sound sound sound for working. I think flexion tests are a joke in some ways. Crank any joint up tight and in a bind then trot it off? ow!

[LisaW-B]

The flexions were part of a routine PPE. Horse might be sort of a stoic individual. Horse flexed soundly earlier in the year, which is interesting. But, please never mind the flexions, for those who think they're controversial. What do people make of the x-ray findings?

[Simkie]

The flexions were part of a routine PPE. Horse might be sort of a stoic individual. Horse flexed soundly earlier in the year, which is interesting. But, please never mind the flexions, for those who think they're controversial. What do people make of the x-ray findings?

Given my experience with chips, I would run away from this horse as fast as I could.

One mare I had with chips wound up bone on bone and only sound enough to be a brood mare despite aggressive treatment. The other mare that had only one chip required (and still requires) aggressive management to keep her comfortable on that joint--monthly adequan and legend, surpass on the joint daily and I would not be at all surprised if we have to repeat IRAP sometime in the not-so-distant future. Both of these horses had their chips removed. There is NO way I would have been able to keep EITHER anywhere near comfortable had I left the chips in the joint.

How's your luck? Mine is awful. If yours is good, you might never have any issues with this horse. I, personally, would not take the risk. I have seen first hand just HOW difficult and expensive it can be to deal with chips.

[LisaW-B]

My overall luck ain't so good! OTOH, he's a teenager, and it has not yet caused him any real issues. But, he's a teenager -- when such things do start to show up to cause problems if they're going to. Arrgh.

[shawneeAcres]

If a horse is in it's teens and doing it's job soundly then I really don't care what happens on flexions or xrays. A chip at that age has likely been there for years and years. everyone has their opinion of such things but I know many horses with chips that perform soundly but probably would not flex with them. And of course they would be visible on xray

[LisaW-B]

Shawnee, that's something I was wondering about, which isn't turning up on Google -- that maybe horses with chips like that simply *don't* flex soundly.

Although, he supposedly DID flex soundly earlier in the year. So that makes it more of a mystery.

I agree that if he were 3 years old instead of older and in regular, sound work, I'd worry more, but I want to make sure it's not really a time bomb just waiting to make my wallet explode. Not to mention break my heart.

[Simkie]

If he flexed sound earlier in the year, and now flexed off, I would be very concerned that the chips are either new or have migrated to a location within the joint where they're now causing harm.

Lots of horses are sound or nearly so on chips that are causing damage. They'll flex off, and then when the chips wear down to the bone, the horse will be very sore. Once you get to that point, it's game over.

Unfortunately, there's really no way to image the cartilage (except maybe MRI?) so you just don't know what it looks like in there. Cartilage does not regrow--once it's gone, it's gone.

[shawneeAcres]

Shawnee, that's something I was wondering about, which isn't turning up on Google -- that maybe horses with chips like that simply *don't* flex soundly.

Although, he supposedly DID flex soundly earlier in the year. So that makes it more of a mystery.

I agree that if he were 3 years old instead of older and in regular, sound work, I'd worry more, but I want to make sure it's not really a time bomb just waiting to make my wallet explode. Not to mention break my heart.

It is a bit more worrisome if he did indeed flex soundly earlier in the year. HAving said that, I have known horses to flex sound with one vet and not with anotehr, some vets flex harder/longer than others, and really ANY horse CAN be made to go off on a flexion if it is done improperly! So it might mean something, then again, it might not! HArd to say with certainty!

[BSFKimbees]

You stated: "Although, he supposedly DID flex soundly earlier in the year. So that makes it more of a mystery."

Two things here, either you were lied to about a sound flextion, or like Simkie states it is possible that "the chips are either new or have migrated to a location within the joint where they're now causing harm." There are other scenarios as well... One would hope you weren't lied to.

I have a horse that is sound on a chip, but he does require maint, even though we have not found any debris floating around. We're pretty confident that he had surgery to have something removed, but even with that assumption he still goes "off" every once and a while. Can't imagine having no issues with an actual viewable chip.

I suppose it all depends on your needs. If this horse is VERY well trained and suits you perfectly for your goals, then I'd consider the maint. If not, then I'd pass. It could be a potential nightmare. Though harder to find, there are schoolmasters out there, with less issues. Of course they are generally found at a higher price.

Good luck!