3.5 litre nissan pathfinder - which trailer ?

[bels]

i'm looking for a trailer to pull from my nissan pathfinder, any recomendations?
(i would love a brenderup but i can't afford one )
thank you!

[Melelio]

A flatbed just big enough to carry a lawn tractor :lol: NO seriously, no horse trailers with a Pathfinder :eek:

[Everythingbutwings]

How many posts before we get to the recommendation of squeaking by with the bare minimum?

Hold out for a used Brenderup. :)

[2bee]

IIRC the late model Pathfinders have a 6000# tow rating, do you know yours? My steel CM Dakota 2H slant weighs in at 5700# with 2 horses and tack. A smaller, lighter aluminum trailer would give you more room for stuff. To answer your question, any trailer that allows you carry your horse/stuff and stay below the tow rating will be fine. Get yourself a WDH and a Prodigy (or better) brake controller.

Get out your hip waders, the BS will be deep in here very soon. Where's my bingo card?

[ryansgirl]

i'm looking for a trailer to pull from my nissan pathfinder, any recomendations?
(i would love a brenderup but i can't afford one )
thank you!

NONE. Period. Unless you want to risk your life, your horses life and the lives of others on the road. Sorry to be harsh but nothing other than a Brenderup (and those things scare me) is safe to put behind a Pathfinder...

[ChocoMare]

NONE. Period. Unless you want to risk your life, your horses life and the lives of others on the road. Sorry to be harsh but nothing other than a Brenderup (and those things scare me) is safe to put behind a Pathfinder...

Thaaaaat about sums it up. Just be safe and wait for either the Brenderup OR a bigger truck (3/4 ton or more).

[Trixie]

NO.

The late model pathfinder you're thinking of, 2Bee, has a 4 or 6 liter engine, not the 3.5 liter. And even then, I personally would NOT.TOW.WITH.IT.

[CanterQueen]

And even then, I personally would NOT.TOW.WITH.IT.

I agree. KIDS, DO NOT ATTEMPT THIS AT HOME! :no:

I would save my money and buy a used *real* truck.

[Amwrider]

IIRC the late model Pathfinders have a 6000# tow rating, do you know yours? My steel CM Dakota 2H slant weighs in at 5700# with 2 horses and tack. A smaller, lighter aluminum trailer would give you more room for stuff. To answer your question, any trailer that allows you carry your horse/stuff and stay below the tow rating will be fine. Get yourself a WDH and a Prodigy (or better) brake controller.

Get out your hip waders, the BS will be deep in here very soon. Where's my bingo card?


Not BS but personal experience on 1000 reasons why you should not tow with a small vehicle, even if you do not exceed the manufacturer's tow rating.

Yes, you wll be able to pull it around and toodle around town provided there are no big hills to go up (or down for that matter), but a small truck is NOT able to handle a loaded horse trailer in an emergency situation.

The weight of a loaded trailer will "push" the light truck forward in sudden breaking situations. Would you jeapordize your horse's lives or your life if you are on a blind curve at highway speed and have to hit the breaks?

What if the passenger side tire hits a loose shoulder on the road, your little truck is not long enough or heavy enough to pull the trailer back onto the road, the weight of the trailer will actually help pull the truck off the road (and a possible rollover situation).

You may think very highly of your own driving abilities, but you cannot take into consideration the other idiots on the road.

Not worth it.

[tangledweb]

The 3.5 l version only has a 5000 lb capacity, so you would need to choose your trailer carefully for one horse, or very carefully for two horses.

[ThoroughbredFancy]

So, I was thinking about towing a 2H with my Jeep Wrangler. I mean...it is a 4.0 and all.




:D (Kidding)

[tangledweb]

So, I was thinking about towing a 2H with my Jeep Wrangler. I mean...it is a 4.0 and all.

Note the Wrangler is obviously unsuitable for towing a large trailer and has a manufacturer specified towing capacity of 2000 lb.

Wow, maybe those crazy automotive engineers know what they are talking about and don't just make up numbers specifically to annoy the "You need at least a 3/4 ton pickup to tow a skinny pony on a rollerskates" club.

[2bee]

Not BS but personal experience on 1000 reasons why you should not tow with a small vehicle, even if you do not exceed the manufacturer's tow rating.

Yes, you wll be able to pull it around and toodle around town provided there are no big hills to go up (or down for that matter), but a small truck is NOT able to handle a loaded horse trailer in an emergency situation.

The weight of a loaded trailer will "push" the light truck forward in sudden breaking situations. Would you jeapordize your horse's lives or your life if you are on a blind curve at highway speed and have to hit the breaks?

What if the passenger side tire hits a loose shoulder on the road, your little truck is not long enough or heavy enough to pull the trailer back onto the road, the weight of the trailer will actually help pull the truck off the road (and a possible rollover situation).

You may think very highly of your own driving abilities, but you cannot take into consideration the other idiots on the road.

Not worth it.

.........cinches up hip waders, wades into the BS..........

The limits set by the manufacturer are SPECIFICALLY set for being able to maintain control of the vehicle. Your "personal experience on 1000 reasons" is nothing more than a gut reflex to a situation YOU were uncomfortable with. I guarantee the truck could care less, as I have said before; in this lawsuit happy country if the trucks could not handle the load they would not be rated for them. PERIOD. What you or the next guy are comfortable with have NOTHING to do with safety.

Another give away to your so called personal experience is your brake comment. The trailer ABSOLUTELY WILL NOT PUSH THE TRUCK, with a quality brake controller. The fact you are unaware of this basic principal truly discredits your opinion on anything related to towing.

What if I run off the edge of the road with my 3500 hauling 10,000#? That is only 66% of the towing capacity, but is nearly 50% heavier than the truck......compared to hauling 5,000# with the 5000# Explorer I hauled many a mile with........I don’t see the problem? Maybe I shouldn’t haul any more than 5,000# with my 3500???

........steps out of BS, heads to wash rack...........

[Jumphigh83]

Well...you asked...you were told....now go and buy a trailer to pull with your micro vehicle....I WOULD NOT tow with anything that small esp LIVE weight. But go ahead, we are all full of sh*t. (your words) I probably have 300K miles or MORE pulling a trailer with all types of vehicles. But what do I know? We can read about you here on the BB and send our condolences. Why ask when you already know what you are going to do? :eek:;)

[philosoraptor]

Brenderup! (used ones are out there)

[MistyBlue]

I would hold off buying and wait for a used Bup to purchase. You don't see a lot of used ones for sale but they are out there. You may have to travel a bit to pick one up. But at least that trailer is made to tow by less than full-sized trucks so probably your safest bet. Unless you have trailering emergencies requiring you to get a trailer asap I'd suggest waiting for a used Brenderup.
I'd *personally* prefer being overtrucked instead of overtrailered...but that's just my personal opinion. I also tend to be stuck in a state and area that attracts bonehead drivers who love to cut in front of people.
But then my opinion may be colored by the crazy horse trailer towing I've seen around here. A Dodge Dakota waiting at a stop sign on a hill and slowly sliding backwards with a 2 horse attached. A jeep grand cherokee at the gas station with a blown transmission with 2 horse attached. An H3 run off the side of the road with the trailer tipped over. Scary stuff. Of course who knows how well these people drove...but then a blown transmission is a blown transmission.

[Jumphigh83]

Oh and tell the salesman it isn't the GOING that makes this a bad idea...it is the STOPPING. My lawn tractor will move my camper around the yard but I would NOT want to try actual towing with it!!

[Treasmare2]

I don't know crap either but I will stick to my truck and leave my jeep at home. Happy hauling.

[Amwrider]

.........cinches up hip waders, wades into the BS..........

The limits set by the manufacturer are SPECIFICALLY set for being able to maintain control of the vehicle. Your "personal experience on 1000 reasons" is nothing more than a gut reflex to a situation YOU were uncomfortable with. I guarantee the truck could care less, as I have said before; in this lawsuit happy country if the trucks could not handle the load they would not be rated for them. PERIOD. What you or the next guy are comfortable with have NOTHING to do with safety.

Another give away to your so called personal experience is your brake comment. The trailer ABSOLUTELY WILL NOT PUSH THE TRUCK, with a quality brake controller. The fact you are unaware of this basic principal truly discredits your opinion on anything related to towing.

What if I run off the edge of the road with my 3500 hauling 10,000#? That is only 66% of the towing capacity, but is nearly 50% heavier than the truck......compared to hauling 5,000# with the 5000# Explorer I hauled many a mile with........I don’t see the problem? Maybe I shouldn’t haul any more than 5,000# with my 3500???

........steps out of BS, heads to wash rack...........


Those ratings are for pulling weight that is more like an equipment trailer or a boat. Pulling horses is like pulling a water tank, it has a higher center fo gravity that shifts back and forth and makes the trailer sway.

The braking comment has to do with wheelbase and simple physics.....even tractor-trailers jacknife and they are rated for much more weight and have heavier duty brakes than any passenger truck. A short wheelbase cannot hold back a heavy trailer with a high center of gravity that shifts easily in an emergency braking situation, period. Jacknife and flip....

[BuddyRoo]

I'd pull a boat with that vehicle.

I'd not pull horses.

[JanWeber]

bels, you can see this is an emotional topic. The towing range specified by the manufacturers is not for live weight which can shift on the trailer. It's harder to tow a horse trailer than a boat because the "cargo" can move around and can potentially be injured if there is a problem. I'm going to avoid the physics here, and just make a suggestion - you want a trailer because you have a horse and a Pathfinder and it seems reasonable that the Pathfinder could tow one. One bad experience could be costly - at the very least in terms of your horse's willingness to get back on a trailer (ask me how I know). Also, when you do buy a trailer, join U.S. Rider, a "motor club" that has the wherewithall to tow trucks and trailers.

[Jumphigh83]

Nissan
Vehicle Engine Tow Limit Codes
Pathfinder/Frontier 3.3 V-6 5,000 (a)

From trailerlife.com
For a manual transmission 3500 lbs is the load LIMIT. Not a good idea. Please do your horse and yourself a favor and dont it

[poltroon]

One accident will cost you more than a brenderup.

If you want to tow your horse in a standard trailer with a pathfinder, I suggest following DOT regulations for safely securing a load, to wit:

General Rule
Cargo must be firmly immobilized or secured on or within a vehicle by structures of adequate strength, dunnage (loose materials used to support and protect cargo) or dunnage bags (inflatable bags intended to fill space between articles of cargo or between cargo and the wall of the vehicle), shoring bars, tiedowns or a combination of these.

Cargo Placement and Restraint
Articles of cargo that are likely to roll must be restrained by chocks, wedges, a cradle or other equivalent means to prevent rolling. The means of preventing rolling must not be capable of becoming unintentionally unfastened or loose while the vehicle is in transit. Articles of cargo placed beside each other and secured by transverse tiedowns must be:

Placed in direct contact with each other, or
Prevented from shifting towards each other while in transit.

Minimum Number of Tiedowns
The cargo securement system used to restrain articles against movement must meet requirements concerning the minimum number of tiedowns. This requirement is in addition to complying with rules concerning the minimum working load limit. When an article of cargo is not blocked or positioned to prevent movement in the forward direction, the number of tiedowns needed depends on the length and weight of the articles. There must be - one tiedown for articles 5 ft or less in length, and 1,100 lbs or less in weight; two tiedowns if the article is -

5 ft or less in length and more than 1,100 lbs in weight; or
greater than 5 ft but less than 10 ft, regardless of weight.
In the following example, one tiedown is required because the article of cargo is 5 ft in length and does not exceed 1,100 lbs. If the article of cargo were greater than 5 ft in length but less than 10 ft, two tiedowns would be needed regardless of the weight. When an article of cargo is not blocked or positioned to prevent movement in the forward direction, and the item is longer than 10 ft in length, then it must be secured by two tiedowns for the first 10 ft of length, and one additional tiedown for every 10 ft of length, or fraction thereof, beyond the first 10 ft. An example of this is provided below. If an article is blocked, braced or immobilized to prevent movement in the forward direction by a headerboard, bulkhead, other articles that are adequately secured, or other appropriate means, it must be secured by at least one tiedown for every 10 ft of article length, or fraction thereof.

IE, lie your horse down and strap his body to the floor with at least two tiedowns.* Then you'll be good to go.

* Disclaimer: Please note that this was not a serious suggestion. :p

[monstrpony]

These threads always puzzle me--how can people feel so adamant about something that they cannot spell? It's BRAKES, people, not breaks.

Carry on.

[2bee]

Those ratings are for pulling weight that is more like an equipment trailer or a boat. Pulling horses is like pulling a water tank, it has a higher center fo gravity that shifts back and forth and makes the trailer sway.

Prove it. NEVER will you find mention of a "live" weight rating in ANY owners manual.....from the smallest truck to the class 8 tractors I drive for a living. It makes you feel better to think live weight needs some sort of rating reduction for safety. Some people's arrogance amazes me.

The braking comment has to do with wheelbase and simple physics.....even tractor-trailers jacknife and they are rated for much more weight and have heavier duty brakes than any passenger truck. A short wheelbase cannot hold back a heavy trailer with a high center of gravity that shifts easily in an emergency braking situation, period. Jacknife and flip....

Simple physics? Good grief. A 5,000# trailer is not heavy, that just plain makes me laugh. You also mention a horse trailer has a high center of gravity? You've obviously never hauled a top heavy trailer or you would understand the absurdity of that comment. A horse trailer does NOT have a high center of gravity.

The truck's short wheelbase does not have to "hold" anything. With the trailer brakes stopping the trailer, the trailer does not push on the truck....simple as that.

[JanWeber]

The dealer from whom I bought my trailer is in the group of advisors who Ford consults about towing issues. She told me that the smart thing to do is to plan on two-thirds of the towing maximums when pulling live weight. She has years of experience driving 18-wheelers, large trailers, small trailers, you get the idea. Extrapolating from your own driving experience, 2bee, is unhelpful unless you have direct experience with the combo described and the skill level of the driver.

[Austin Rider]

Well...you asked...you were told....now go and buy a trailer to pull with your micro vehicle....I WOULD NOT tow with anything that small esp LIVE weight. But go ahead, we are all full of sh*t. (your words) I probably have 300K miles or MORE pulling a trailer with all types of vehicles. But what do I know? We can read about you here on the BB and send our condolences. Why ask when you already know what you are going to do? :eek:;)

Jumphigh, Bels is the OP, not 2Bee. I agree with others that Pathfinder's not a good choice unless you're pulling a light brenderup-type trailer with just 1 horse loaded. It might be able to pull and stop a trailer, but would be hard to control in emergency handling situation...fishtailing, etc. I guess a
weight-distributing hitch would help, but don't have experience with them.

[exploding pony]

I barely drive my truck 80 mph on the fwy - I would never, ever haul a horse trailer at 80 mph.

[rothmpp]

Personally, I wouldn't tow horses with a Pathfinder. I know plenty of people tow horses with these smaller SUVs, but I've just seen too many scary situations to warrant doing it in anything less than an emergency. I've seen a 1500 get really light in the back end and start to sway badly when both 17 hand horses lean back on the butt bars. I was behind a 1500 with a fully loaded trailer and the truck skidded through an intersection when someone coming the other way ran a red light. If the truck was not maxed out, I believe it would've stopped.

And anyone who says an essentially unrestrained load in a trailer does not make a difference likely has never hauled an unrestrained load. There is a max tow load on your vehicle. A max is just that - a max. Engineers will tell you that you should not plan on your vehicle tolerating the max very often without problems.

I would also add - in a perfect world everything is adjusted properly and the brakes are perfectly set. What happens when they're not, because your teenager was messing with the box, or your truck brakes need to be changed, etc... Or in my case, my husband tows his tractor and equipment trailer with the same truck, and the brakes need to be adjusted every time I tow the horses. It's just not worth the chance of injuring your horses, yourself, or someone else on the road.

[Fluffie]

I've seen a 1500 get really light in the back end and start to sway badly when both 17 hand horses lean back on the butt bars. I was behind a 1500 with a fully loaded trailer and the truck skidded through an intersection when someone coming the other way ran a red light. If the truck was not maxed out, I believe it would've stopped.


There was something wrong with the rig's set up/brakes because two 17 hh in a 2HBP will NOT max out an appropriately equiped 1500. Now I wouldn't want to use a smaller vehicle (or a larger trailer than a 2H), but a 1500 will do fine except for major inclines.

[2bee]

The dealer from whom I bought my trailer is in the group of advisors who Ford consults about towing issues. She told me that the smart thing to do is to plan on two-thirds of the towing maximums when pulling live weight. She has years of experience driving 18-wheelers, large trailers, small trailers, you get the idea. Extrapolating from your own driving experience, 2bee, is unhelpful unless you have direct experience with the combo described and the skill level of the driver.

My experience is "unhelpful", despite having hauled with an Explorer? But the quack who recommends hauling at 66% was helpful? Gimme a break.

True an Explorer is not exactly the same as Pathfinder, but it is a midsize suv. I had listen to all the same "not safe" BS when I hauled with it. The point still remains, the tow ratings are there for safety.

[2bee]

Years ago I pulled a very nice Kingston, WB extra high with a dressing room with a Dodge Durango V8 Magnum. I had super breaks with a controller in the truck and ALWAYS used sway bars. I towed from NJ to Lake Placid, up and down hills with two LARGE 16.3 - 17 warmbloods. I easily drove 80+ MPH on the highway. That said, I would DEFINITELY not do it with the 3.5L engine on a pathfinder. I was pushing it and have since sold the trailer and the truck still runs but if I ever did it again I would get at least a 2500 full size pick up. There were times when I solely used the breaker box to stop the TRAILER first, you have to be quick or the trailer WILL push the light truck. Horses definitely move and that takes a toll on the body of the truck, like I said I used sway bars, TIGHT, had the whole thing fitted for the specific trailer. Before that I used a Jeep Grand Cheroke, V8 with a smaller shoops, same deal, sway bars and breaker box and I often would manually push the breaks for the trailer if I had to stop short, or I would down shift in the car, you have to drive differently using a small truck.... If you can, get a full size pick up or Tahoe, Yukon, Expedition, Sequoia type SUV, you will be able to relax more.

If you're still towing, I would suggest looking into a Prodigy or similar brake controller. With a quality controller there is no need to use the manual lever, they will supply full power for emergency stops. The trailer will not push, no matter what size truck.

[2bee]

Jumphigh, Bels is the OP, not 2Bee. I agree with others that Pathfinder's not a good choice unless you're pulling a light brenderup-type trailer with just 1 horse loaded. It might be able to pull and stop a trailer, but would be hard to control in emergency handling situation...fishtailing, etc. I guess a
weight-distributing hitch would help, but don't have experience with them.

And yet you attempt to give advice.

[2bee]

Personally, I wouldn't tow horses with a Pathfinder. I know plenty of people tow horses with these smaller SUVs, but I've just seen too many scary situations to warrant doing it in anything less than an emergency. I've seen a 1500 get really light in the back end and start to sway badly when both 17 hand horses lean back on the butt bars. I was behind a 1500 with a fully loaded trailer and the truck skidded through an intersection when someone coming the other way ran a red light. If the truck was not maxed out, I believe it would've stopped.

And anyone who says an essentially unrestrained load in a trailer does not make a difference likely has never hauled an unrestrained load. There is a max tow load on your vehicle. A max is just that - a max. Engineers will tell you that you should not plan on your vehicle tolerating the max very often without problems.

I would also add - in a perfect world everything is adjusted properly and the brakes are perfectly set. What happens when they're not, because your teenager was messing with the box, or your truck brakes need to be changed, etc... Or in my case, my husband tows his tractor and equipment trailer with the same truck, and the brakes need to be adjusted every time I tow the horses. It's just not worth the chance of injuring your horses, yourself, or someone else on the road.

This is a problem most people run into, they think the tow rating is the "max". It is the working limit, not a max as in breakdown and burst into flames. The tow ratings are what the engineers found to give acceptable performance, safety and service life.

Engineers will also tell you there is a considerable safety margin figured in LONG before a product hits John Q Public's hands.

If your teenager messes with the brake controller or you have not maintained your truck (brakes or whatever else) that is the DRIVER'S fault....has nothing to do with the truck. NO amount of larger truck will make up for stupidity. If the driver is that absent minded or irresponsible to check and maintain your equipment do you really need to be towing?

[Rachel L]

About the fifth time I drove it, my then brand new trailer revealed a wiring problem that seemed to fry my brake controller: when I stepped on the truck brakes, the trailer brakes would either not come on at all, or would apply at full strength, instantly locking up the trailer wheels. I had to drive home with no trailer brakes. I was happy that I had a 3/4 ton truck, which was able to stop the trailer without the trailer's brakes. As I told that story to other horse friends, I heard an avalanche of stories involving problems with electric brakes on the trailer. Trailer brakes can fail. Brake controllers can fail. I prefer having a combination where the truck can stop the trailer without the trailer brakes, if necessary. But each person must decide his own risk tolerance.

[rothmpp]

Okay - 2bee - I'll bite. And normally I don't get into these things, but...

I didn't go after you, though you have decided to go after me. I never said that those things were specific to me. I only offered some scenarios that were not beyond the realm of possibility. I am not stupid nor absent-minded, and apparently don't have your hostility issues. Most people towing do not have your self-proclaimed level of expertise that makes towing a trailer that is pushing the "working limit" of their vehicle an ideal choice. And it is not just about the tow weight limit. It is also about the wheel base, and type of hitch, and distribution of weight. Feel free to continue to tow with your Explorer. I wouldn't do it, but apparently I am too addle-minded to be allowed on the road.

To the OP - once again, I would not do it, but if you are - get a Benderup or the like, a trailer that is designed to be towed by a smaller, lighter vehicle. And be really diligent about weight distribution, and brake pads, and tire pressure. I know that for most people, having two vehicles, one for towing and one for everyday that does not kill them on gas mileage is not realistic, but be realistic about what you are comfortable with safety-wise.

I'm off to endanger the driving public with my absent-mindedness.

[Sansena]

There was something wrong with the rig's set up/brakes because two 17 hh in a 2HBP will NOT max out an appropriately equiped 1500. Now I wouldn't want to use a smaller vehicle (or a larger trailer than a 2H), but a 1500 will do fine except for major inclines.


I dunnooo...
I've got a Z-71, essentially a 1500 8 cyl pulling an aluminum skin 2 horse Trail-et, no dressing room, not extra high/ wide. My horse weighs 970 lbs.

I *will NOT* go on the highway, and even empty the thing has problems going up the hill to home.. a 30 degree pitch. It gets tiresome taking the long way avoiding highway, hills, etc. But in an emergency, it works. I do NOT carry any extra weight, ie: add'l hay or tack trunks, etc. It's just me, the tack I ride in, and my po po.

And, I also employ the manual brake slider thing-y regularly so the trailer slows the truck. It's an acquired technique, driving w/one hand on the wheel and the other on the brake box bar.

[2bee]

Okay - 2bee - I'll bite. And normally I don't get into these things, but...

I didn't go after you, though you have decided to go after me. I never said that those things were specific to me. I only offered some scenarios that were not beyond the realm of possibility. I am not stupid nor absent-minded, and apparently don't have your hostility issues. Most people towing do not have your self-proclaimed level of expertise that makes towing a trailer that is pushing the "working limit" of their vehicle an ideal choice. And it is not just about the tow weight limit. It is also about the wheel base, and type of hitch, and distribution of weight. Feel free to continue to tow with your Explorer. I wouldn't do it, but apparently I am too addle-minded to be allowed on the road.

To the OP - once again, I would not do it, but if you are - get a Benderup or the like, a trailer that is designed to be towed by a smaller, lighter vehicle. And be really diligent about weight distribution, and brake pads, and tire pressure. I know that for most people, having two vehicles, one for towing and one for everyday that does not kill them on gas mileage is not realistic, but be realistic about what you are comfortable with safety-wise.

I'm off to endanger the driving public with my absent-mindedness.

There is no hostile intent here, just looks like a point/counter point discussion to me. Besides it would take more than a chat room to get me riled. I have changed "you" and "your" to "driver" in my previous post so as not to offend you.

[2bee]

I dunnooo...
I've got a Z-71, essentially a 1500 8 cyl pulling an aluminum skin 2 horse Trail-et, no dressing room, not extra high/ wide. My horse weighs 970 lbs.

I *will NOT* go on the highway, and even empty the thing has problems going up the hill to home.. a 30 degree pitch. It gets tiresome taking the long way avoiding highway, hills, etc. But in an emergency, it works. I do NOT carry any extra weight, ie: add'l hay or tack trunks, etc. It's just me, the tack I ride in, and my po po.

And, I also employ the manual brake slider thing-y regularly so the trailer slows the truck. It's an acquired technique, driving w/one hand on the wheel and the other on the brake box bar.

I would encourage you, like I did MrJig a few post up, to look into a better brake controller. There is no reason to have to use the manual lever. I certainly would want both hands on the wheel in an emergency.

[CanterQueen]

I barely drive my truck 80 mph on the fwy - I would never, ever haul a horse trailer at 80 mph.

That's EXACTLY what I was thinking. :eek::no::eek:

[MistyBlue]

This is a problem most people run into, they think the tow rating is the "max". It is the working limit, not a max as in breakdown and burst into flames. The tow ratings are what the engineers found to give acceptable performance, safety and service life.


Not to nitpick...but manufactorer websites and vehicle websites have Standard Towing weights and Maximum Towing weight. The Maximum towing weight is indeed that...the maximum safe towable weight. The standard is the average towing weight the vehicle can handle on a regular basis...the maximum is not meant to be a daily weight towed.

[Sansena]

I would encourage you, like I did MrJig a few post up, to look into a better brake controller. There is no reason to have to use the manual lever. I certainly would want both hands on the wheel in an emergency.


Ooooo. Lemme run right out and get one then, cuz you said so!

[2bee]

Not to nitpick...but manufactorer websites and vehicle websites have Standard Towing weights and Maximum Towing weight. The Maximum towing weight is indeed that...the maximum safe towable weight. The standard is the average towing weight the vehicle can handle on a regular basis...the maximum is not meant to be a daily weight towed.

Could you provide an example? And if so wouldnt we assume that the max limit would still be safe? A shorter service life would be expected, but still the max limit would have to be safe.

[2bee]

Ooooo. Lemme run right out and get one then, cuz you said so!

It was just a suggestion, do with it what you will. I know plenty of people who haul without any trailer brakes, they've never run into anything. Makes little difference to me.

[BuddyRoo]

Sometimes...it's not just about CAN you...it's about SHOULD you. Is it reasonable and prudent?

Max tow ratings aside....I have a lot of horsey friends who haul with various vehicles. On average, most of them haul no more than twice a month for about 5 months of the year. Most have been hauling for no more than 10-15 years. Most can barely back their trailers into a tight spot without help or several tries. Most are fairly nervous when hauling or too green at it altogether to even BE nervous.

What I'm saying is...for those of you who are confident about the mechanics, confident in situations, good at defensive driving while hauling a trailer, know how swerving to avoid something or stopping hard can affect a load, etc? You're kind of in the minority.

And for the majority of folks *I* know, I really don't think some of these smaller tow vehicles are ideal. There are so many variables on the driver end alone that you can't possibly offer an "ideal" drive the whole time. Shoot, I barely think your average F150 or 1500 is a "great" tow vehicle. But I also realize that when you only haul a few times a year, it doesn't make sense to be driving around in a 250 or 2500 or more.

I had someone show up once with a minivan (rated to tow they said) planning to haul my horse (they were leasing). I said no way.

Had someone once offer me a ride to a show pulling their trailer with a Cherokee. I politely declined.

You see, I cannot afford the nice tow vehicles either right now. But I would rather stay home than "make due" and take what *I* consider to be unnecessary risks.


I HAVE been on the scene of accidents involving horse trailers...and I've had a few close calls myself (hill + jerk pulling out in front of me + trailer brakes failed)....I would just rather have more truck than too little in a pinch.

[Amwrider]

I have been in a Jeep Cherokee pulling an empty trailer (2 horse stock - a very small trailer) and the EMPTY trailer was well under their weight limit but the trailer brakes failed.

I was a passenger and I can honestly say I thought I was going to die that day when the driver hit the brakes on the expressway and the weight of the trailer pushed us across three lanes of traffic while on top of an overpass. At one point we were riding on the two passenger side wheels only and I was looking out my window of an all too closeup view of the grassy slope and guardrail of the overpass. Short wheelbases are dangerous in emergency situations.

A boarder at a barn I was at 10 years ago would pull her barrel horse around town with her Chevy S-10 extended cab. Her trailer was one of those tiny two horse trailers with under the manger storage and putting her stocky TB in it was like putting 10 pounds of crap in a 5 pound bag. She also was under her weight ratio with one loaded horse. Her passenger side trailer tires hit loose shoulder (Florida sugar sand) and she ended up hitting a guardrail with her truck because she couldn't get the trailer back on the pavement quickly enough, she thought she was going to jacknife and roll but the guardrail prevented this from happening. (yes, the horse was properly loaded on the driver's side in the trailer).

Even a longer wheelbase cannot protect against all accidents, my former BO was using her Suburban to haul two horses and a hackney pony (in a 3 horse BP - Exiss I think) from FL to Kansas City a couple of years back. Along the way she apparently had wheel bearing problems in the trailer and the trailer ended up jacknifing and flipping itself and the Suburban. it made a lot of the horse publications because Anne Judd was a passenger during the accident and she is a very well known judge and international clinician for saddle seat equitation. The BO had just had the trailer serviced and apparently the bearings were not packed properly.

I can't think of the exact scientific reason for why a longer wheelbase is more stable, but I think it is similar to levers. The longer the arm of the lever the more it can move, but with wheelbase I think it is more about the longer the wheelbase the easier it can hold the rig straight.

[2bee]

I can't think of the exact scientific reason for why a longer wheelbase is more stable, but I think it is similar to levers. The longer the arm of the lever the more it can move, but with wheelbase I think it is more about the longer the wheelbase the easier it can hold the rig straight.

Very good, wheelbase is about leverage. BUT youre only looking at one side of the story. All things equal a longer wheelbase should be more "stable", however what always gets overlooked is the rear overhang. Overhang is the distance from the rear axle to the ball. Overhang is almost always shorter on a smaller vehicle. When you look at the leverage ratio (wheelbase divided by overhang) comparing my 3500 extended cab long bed to the Explorer I used to have, you end up with nearly the exact same leverage ratio due to the shorter overhang on the Explorer.

[Fluffie]

I dunnooo...
I've got a Z-71, essentially a 1500 8 cyl pulling an aluminum skin 2 horse Trail-et, no dressing room, not extra high/ wide. My horse weighs 970 lbs.

I *will NOT* go on the highway, and even empty the thing has problems going up the hill to home.. a 30 degree pitch. It gets tiresome taking the long way avoiding highway, hills, etc. But in an emergency, it works. I do NOT carry any extra weight, ie: add'l hay or tack trunks, etc. It's just me, the tack I ride in, and my po po.

And, I also employ the manual brake slider thing-y regularly so the trailer slows the truck. It's an acquired technique, driving w/one hand on the wheel and the other on the brake box bar.

That honestly isn't right--there's something amiss. I have towed a 2hBP (steel--around 3500 lbs) with two horses (1200 each) and assorted horse show stuff in IL/MO and never had such problems, nor have my friends with similar rigs. :confused:

[ThirdCharm]

Very good, wheelbase is about leverage. BUT youre only looking at one side of the story. All things equal a longer wheelbase should be more "stable", however what always gets overlooked is the rear overhang. Overhang is the distance from the rear axle to the ball. Overhang is almost always shorter on a smaller vehicle. When you look at the leverage ratio (wheelbase divided by overhang) comparing my 3500 extended cab long bed to the Explorer I used to have, you end up with nearly the exact same leverage ratio due to the shorter overhang on the Explorer.

Of course the leverage of the 3500 is compounded by the significantly greater weight of the vehicle. Put a high school football player on one end of a teeter-totter, put a 3rd grader on the other..... comprende?

I don't care what kind of fancy schmancy brake box you have, wires corrode, break, etc., fuses blow, brake boxes can fail for all sorts of reasons, and if you don't have enough stopping power in your truck when it happens, you are SCREWED.

Jennifer

[Guilherme]

The latest Nissan with a 3.5L engine is an '04 model. With an automatic the limit is 3500 lbs. With a manual it's 5000 lbs. Using the 80% rule do the math. That will give you the MAXIMUM gross weight of a loaded trailer.

Looks to me like the automatic is a "non-starter" and the manual is very iffy. Both presume a "towing package."

See http://trailmanor.com/WebDocs/Camping-Towing/TowRatingPDF/2004.pdf

G.

[2bee]

Of course the leverage of the 3500 is compounded by the significantly greater weight of the vehicle. Put a high school football player on one end of a teeter-totter, put a 3rd grader on the other..... comprende?

I don't care what kind of fancy schmancy brake box you have, wires corrode, break, etc., fuses blow, brake boxes can fail for all sorts of reasons, and if you don't have enough stopping power in your truck when it happens, you are SCREWED.

Jennifer

There is some logic to your statement, but traction is another issue that must be addressed. The tires on mid size suv's can equal or be larger than the 245's found on my 3500. The available traction is being used up just keeping the 4000# front end of the 3500 under control, add some rodeo action and the bigger truck could be in for trouble. Traction, or specifically lack there of, is the same reason it takes my heavier truck longer to stop than a lighter vehicle.

Chevy rates my 3500 to stop a 2000# unbraked trailer according to the owners manual, IIRC the Explorer was 1500#. And fuses do not just blow, wires do not just "corrode" and "break", if proper maint is done these become non issues. Run quality equipment and maintain it. Sure $hit happens, Ive had the truck brakes go out before......thats alot of fun.

If the trailer brakes go out, you are in a bad way no matter the tow vehicle. Comprende?

[Amwrider]

Chevy rates my 3500 to stop a 2000# unbraked trailer according to the owners manual, IIRC the Explorer was 1500#. If the trailer brakes go out, you are in a bad way no matter the tow vehicle. Comprende?


Yes, that is understood, but by using a bigger tow vehicle you are "stacking the deck" to be more in your (and your horse's) favor to come out on top in an emergency situation.

[Kate66]

Like the other posters, I would suggest you look into a Brenderup. Personally I pull a 2H/SL Merhow which only weighs 1700lbs. Other than the Brenderup I have not found another trailer that is as light as this one. I pull it with a Ram1500 and even with 2 horses (1250lbs +950lbs) I barely feel it out the back there. I have a good brake controller, which I think is essential and didn't even know there were such things as "manual sliders".

[2bee]

Yes, that is understood, but by using a bigger tow vehicle you are "stacking the deck" to be more in your (and your horse's) favor to come out on top in an emergency situation.


How so? My Explorer will stop quicker than the 3500 will when not towing a trailer. For that matter the newest Tahoe has LARGER brakes than the ones on my 3500.

[MistyBlue]

Could you provide an example? And if so wouldnt we assume that the max limit would still be safe? A shorter service life would be expected, but still the max limit would have to be safe.

This webpage has an example:
http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/spec_engines.aspx?year=2009&make=Dodge&model=Durango&trimid=-1

That was the first one I clicked on for the Dodge Durango, but anything that is capable of towing does have the standard and max tow weights listed usually.
The manufactorers do list the max weight as the maximum safest weight to tow/haul. However by listing it as maximum they're pointing out that it's not a "standard" daily or regular tow weight, the engine is designed to handle that weight safely for the times it's used but cannot/will not state that the highest listed weight is optimum for safety or vehicle longevity on a regular basis. Usually they base that more on transmission and brake life, but it depends on which vehicle maker bases it on.
There are so many different thoughts when it comes to hauling/towing safety. Many times it's based on daily normal activity and many times it's based on worst case scenerios. Not sure which is best to base it on...after all we'll do the daily normal activity a thousand times and may never experience the worst case scenerio. It might be like saying, "I'll never drive anywhere because I could be in an accident." Doesn't make sense when put that way.
I'm a bit of a safety freak when it comes to certain things and more of a risk taker when it comes to other things. And the things change as I age. :winkgrin: When it comes to hauling, I prefer personally to be overtrucked. I want the best case scenerio I can get in case the worst case scenerio happens. CT isn't known for fantastic safe drivers. :eek: (neither is MA, LOL) Also, I have an F250 because it's also darned hard to bring hay home in an SUV and pick up huge loads of bedding or feed or bring the lawnmower to the small engine repair place every season when my husband tries to mow a rock. :lol: So the larger truck with the larger bed wasn't just for maximum towing...it's an all around farm vehicle. :yes:
Not that I have a trailer at this time and truth be told *my* idea of an ideal towing set-up is a horse van. Finding them is tough though...getting hubby to agree was tougher. We got the pick up. :D

[MistyBlue]

Kate66...not to derail the thread but how do you like your Merhow? I've checked those out before and liked what I saw for the price.

[2bee]

This webpage has an example:
http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/spec_engines.aspx?year=2009&make=Dodge&model=Durango&trimid=-1

That was the first one I clicked on for the Dodge Durango, but anything that is capable of towing does have the standard and max tow weights listed usually.
The manufactorers do list the max weight as the maximum safest weight to tow/haul. However by listing it as maximum they're pointing out that it's not a "standard" daily or regular tow weight, the engine is designed to handle that weight safely for the times it's used but cannot/will not state that the highest listed weight is optimum for safety or vehicle longevity on a regular basis. Usually they base that more on transmission and brake life, but it depends on which vehicle maker bases it on.
There are so many different thoughts when it comes to hauling/towing safety. Many times it's based on daily normal activity and many times it's based on worst case scenerios. Not sure which is best to base it on...after all we'll do the daily normal activity a thousand times and may never experience the worst case scenerio. It might be like saying, "I'll never drive anywhere because I could be in an accident." Doesn't make sense when put that way.
I'm a bit of a safety freak when it comes to certain things and more of a risk taker when it comes to other things. And the things change as I age. :winkgrin: When it comes to hauling, I prefer personally to be overtrucked. I want the best case scenerio I can get in case the worst case scenerio happens. CT isn't known for fantastic safe drivers. :eek: (neither is MA, LOL) Also, I have an F250 because it's also darned hard to bring hay home in an SUV and pick up huge loads of bedding or feed or bring the lawnmower to the small engine repair place every season when my husband tries to mow a rock. :lol: So the larger truck with the larger bed wasn't just for maximum towing...it's an all around farm vehicle. :yes:
Not that I have a trailer at this time and truth be told *my* idea of an ideal towing set-up is a horse van. Finding them is tough though...getting hubby to agree was tougher. We got the pick up. :D

Thank you for the example, but that is not a manufacturer’s website. That type of chart, (Edmunds, Trailer life, Trail manor, Yahoo auto, etc) are notoriously confusing and inaccurate. We should always refer to the manufacturer’s literature in reference to vehicle specs. If this link to the Dodge (http://www.dodge.com/en/2009/durango/performance/towing_payload/)website works you will notice they list basically the same range of towing numbers, however they are not shown as standard vs. max. More like standard vs. optional......as in the V6 is standard, the V8 is optional. The tow ratings cover that range due to engine size, rear axle ratio, and 4x2 vs. 4x4.

I have yet to see an official manufacturer’s (GM, Ford, Dodge, Nissan, Toyota) list of “standard” vs. max tow rating.

[jn4jenny]

Like the other posters, I would suggest you look into a Brenderup. Personally I pull a 2H/SL Merhow which only weighs 1700lbs. Other than the Brenderup I have not found another trailer that is as light as this one. I pull it with a Ram1500 and even with 2 horses (1250lbs +950lbs) I barely feel it out the back there. I have a good brake controller, which I think is essential and didn't even know there were such things as "manual sliders".

While I totally approve of pulling a Merhow with a 1/2 ton truck, that is a far cry from pulling a B'up with a Pathfinder.

OTOH, for those who are (rightly) whining about the fallability of the brake controller, Brenderup has gotten around that problem by having four-wheel anti-lock surge brakes. If I had to put my money on two-wheel electric trailer brakes (which are notorious for failing at inconvenient times) or automatic-engaging mechanical surge brakes that respond when they feel ANY pushback from the tow vehicle (meaning they're engaging before you even get your foot to the brake pedal), my money is on the surge brakes. Obviously if you can get the surge brakes + a big truck in front of them, that's all the better.

"Normal" trailers are aerodynamic disaster areas. They put a huge amount of tongue weight on the vehicle, they practically beg for trailer sway, any attention to center of gravity is completely lost on me, and they have sucky suspensions (if they have any suspension at all). The B'up puts a big fat 3.5%-5% of the tongue weight on your tow vehicle, they've been tested in wind tunnels and therefore they arguably perform *better* in terms of trailer sway and "wagging the dog", the center of gravity is purposely put very low to the ground, Brenderup cambers like a car. There's a great video on the Internet of a B'up salesperson riding in the back of a B'up going 45 miles down a gravel/dirt road, and she puts a full wine glass on the floor. It barely even shakes, much less moves.

I'm not saying the Merhow is evil, and I'm not saying the Brenderup is godly. They're both appropriate trailers when hooked to the appropriate rig. But there's a lot of miseducation on this thread in both directions..

FWIW, 2bee is right about how tow rates are highly subjective, although I disagree that the higher tow rates should always be used as justification to pull more weight. The tow ratings vary significantly between countries. My exact same vehicle in Europe with no modifications whatsoever is rated to tow DOUBLE what it's rated to tow here. However, that tow rating assumes the European law of only putting 5% or less of tongue weight on the vehicle . It does NOT account for an American trailer's high tongue weight and would be a terrible justification for pulling an aluminum or steel trailer with a small vehicle.

[Trixie]

People who tow with light vehicles scare me, unless they're using a properly hitched brenderup. For every one that's perfectly adjusted within an inch of its life, there are seven zillion others that are inappropriately hitched and all over the place. 2Bee's can rabidly spout off her "facts" all she wants, but she's no less frightening to me.

I'd just rather err on the side of caution. I I don't want anything to happen to my horses, and frankly, with the scary way that folks drive around here (this is the DC metro area and I have several coworkers who just WON'T drive here in a CAR because it's scary) I want to be OVERTRUCKED. I've seen enough situations where we were very grateful for our F-350, although we'd be quite pleased with a nice F-250. Always better to be overtrucked than to find out too late that you're undertrucked if something goes wrong.

Most people are not professional trailer jockeys, and don't have THAT much experience with hauling. Aggressively insisting to an admitted NOVICE TO TOWING that she should squeak by with the absolute minimums suggested by the manufacturers is just ridiculous advice.

[Guilherme]

I have yet to see an official manufacturer’s (GM, Ford, Dodge, Nissan, Toyota) list of “standard” vs. max tow rating.

You will find "official" numbers in a vehicle's Owner's Manual. I don't know how many of them, if any, are available for free online.

I don't know about the Trailer Life numbers being "confusing" or not accurate. They match the manual numbers in the truck I just traded and the truck I just got. They are probably better than what you'll get from a trailer salesman. ;)

You also have to ask if the manufacturer's numbers come from the Engineering Department, Sales Department, or Legal Department. We all have probably seen the Ford and Toyota ads for trucks and the incredible numbers they sometimes claim while performing dramatic feats. It's well to mind the "small print" at the bottom about the demos being done by professional drivers. What they don't remind us of that that the demos are also carefully staged with vehicles that have been "tweeked" to maximum performance. Individual results can vary rather dramatically.

Long ago I was informed that the numbers presented in any manual are for "dead" loads (like boats, travel trailers, equipment, etc.). Animals are a "live" load in that the load can shift as animals move around. Liquid also moves during transport. The rule of thumb I was that with a light duty trucks you want to stay at 80% of less of the rated maximum towing capacity. This gives you some "J factor" in the event your load shifts an an inoportune time (like during emegency braking).

Remember, too, that ALL one ton pickups are light duty trucks, Class 1-2. You don't get to medium duty until you enter Class 3-6 which begins with the 450/4500 series. You don't get to "heavy duty" until you get to Class 7-8 which are Volvos, Freighliners, etc.

Again, just exactly what these numbers mean and how they were derived can be VERY difficult to determine. Running at the top end of rated capacity means you have a LOT of faith in the manufacturer. I'm not sure I can "go there." :)

G.

[tangledweb]

Long ago I was informed that the numbers presented in any manual are for "dead" loads (like boats, travel trailers, equipment, etc.).

Long ago I was informed that a fat man in red suit would come down the chimney and give me presents. I looked into it a little further though, and like many things I was told, the numbers just did not seem to make sense. If our fat man had a waist measurement of 52", he would have a diameter of about 16". The chances of him getting down my 6" chimney seemed slim.

At around that time, I decided to apply some critical thinking whenever somebody tells me things.

[Everythingbutwings]

bels, I asked my son, whose job is sales manager at a Saab dealership (has access to those "real" numbers :winkgrin: and here is his response:

I think the 3.5L Pathfinder has a max of 5000 pounds, so unless your trailer weighs less than 2750 pounds, no go. Even that is stretching to the limit of what it's rated to pull/stop, and they assume you're not dumb enough to not use trailer brakes when required. Example of the kind of trailer that would theoretically fit that need: http://www.horsetrailersgalore.com/detail.asp?id=7723

[Sandy M]

FWIW, I believe the surge brakes are illegal in some states, including California. I wonder if that means that the Brenderups I see around here have had electric brakes added.

I'm happy with my 2500 (even though it is ancient), and very wary of pulling with anything less. My trailer is a two horse steel slantload with a dressing room, so any lightweight vehicle was out of the question.

If you must pull with the Pathfinder, definitely look for a used Brenderup. Alternatively, looked for a good used truck, a 1500/150 if you're going to buy a lightweight trailer, a 2500/250 otherwise, that you can use ONLY for towing. Used trucks (and new ones for that matter!) are going cheaply these days. When I purchased my rig, I bought a used truck and used trailer. The total expended was about $13,200. I'm still driving the same rig 15 years later.

As of Sept. 2008, the average price of a new 2-horse Brenderup was $11,000 to $13,000 (single horse around $8,800).

FWIW, a friend was going to a show and offered to trailer my horse as well so we could save gas. She's pulling an TB size steel trailer with a 1500. When we loaded both horses - hers a TB about 1,100 lbs. and mine a 16.2 App cross who's probably about 1,200....I could feel the 1500 she tows with (brand new) was working really hard, exp. when we had to climb a grade. I was wishing we'd used my rig.

[Guilherme]

Long ago I was informed that a fat man in red suit would come down the chimney and give me presents. I looked into it a little further though, and like many things I was told, the numbers just did not seem to make sense. If our fat man had a waist measurement of 52", he would have a diameter of about 16". The chances of him getting down my 6" chimney seemed slim.

At around that time, I decided to apply some critical thinking whenever somebody tells me things.

OK, then you're telling me that I'm wrong? If so, how? Am I wrong about the "dead load" part? The 80% part? What?

Or perhaps you can enlighten us on just HOW maximums are set?

A reference to "old knowledge" is not always a reference to myth or fantasy. Sometimes it's just a loss of a specific citation.

I'm always open to correction if I'm wrong. Correct me. Supply that "critical thinking."

G.

[Austin Rider]

If the trailer brakes go out, you are in a bad way no matter the tow vehicle. Comprende?

Not necessarily. My F250 diesel can safely pull (and stop) my fully-loaded 2-horse trailer without the brakes hooked up. I've had to do so a few times and it was no big deal.

[Everythingbutwings]

I had heard that about surge brakes as well, but it looks like they managed to pass federal legislation (http://www.rentalmanagementmag.com/newsart.asp?ARTID=2678) last year that took care of the conglomeration of differing state's regulations and made their use on vehicles up to 20,000 pounds legal.

The things you find out :) This is from 2004:

A Break on Brakes? (http://trailer-bodybuilders.com/mag/trucks_break_brakes/)

[tangledweb]

OK, then you're telling me that I'm wrong? If so, how? Am I wrong about the "dead load" part? The 80% part? What?

I am saying that because you were "informed" something does not automatically make it true.

Have you ever seen fine print below the max trailer weight rating in your vehicles manual that says "* 7000 lb for dead weight, don't even think about claiming under warranty or suing us after an accident if you tow more than 5000 lb of live weight"? Have you ever seen that kind of disclaimer on the back of a truck brochure that has a photo of the truck towing a horse float on the cover?

If it were true, that manufacturers specified weight like that, it would be written somewhere. I've never seen it, so no I don't believe it.

It is really hard to prove that Santa does not exist, but if he did, I'd expect there to be evidence somewhere. I've never seen any, so I choose not to believe.

[2bee]

Not necessarily. My F250 diesel can safely pull (and stop) my fully-loaded 2-horse trailer without the brakes hooked up. I've had to do so a few times and it was no big deal.


And I demonstrated to several non-belivers that my Explorer could stop the trailer without brakes as well.....no big deal there either.

Your F250 is NOT rated to stop more than 1500# of unbraked trailer per Ford (https://www.fleet.ford.com/showroom/rv_trailer_towing/). Take a look around that site, or your owners manual.

But you're saying you felt you had acceptable performance from your truck at well over the unbraked trailer rating? Interesting. Must be a little safety margin built in huh?

[Guilherme]

I am saying that because you were "informed" something does not automatically make it true.

<balance of smart ass, utterly useless remarks snipped for brevity>

OK, so again we ask "what are the rules?"

G.

[Everythingbutwings]

I'd think that professional drivers would be all for getting safer vehicle/trailer combination's out on the road rather than recommending that novice haulers trust in an unspecified margin of safety from auto manufacturers. I sure as heck wouldn't count on any American auto maker's safety judgment. They've pretty much been forced kicking and screaming into everything from seat belts to non-exploding gas tanks.

When their ads have fine print that say professional driver under controlled conditions, that's not a recommendation for me to try it at home.

When people begin a topic such as this one, it is rather obvious that the person is new to towing or they wouldn't be asking for advice. I am baffled why anyone would continue to pontificate so on getting by with the absolute bare minimum that auto dealers state.

Every time one of these topics comes up, any reference source cited is ridiculed as being "written by a vet" "trailer manufacturer", "informed", "someone's preference" or "just because 'you' feel safer", etc.

Why don't you want people to drive and tow more safely, with a better chance of avoiding bad situations? Don't you WANT the other people on the road to have the benefit of every precaution possible before they merge on to the road with you?

I don't think everyone needs a one ton truck to haul with but there are some pretty ridiculous combination's out there that I see every time we go to a horse show. Some of them on the side of the road. It's common sense, use the right tool for the job and have a plan.

The OP asked what kind of trailer she could tow with her vehicle. It's pretty clear that a 2 horse, with two 1,000 lb horses and minimum tack/equipment is going to be a bare bones trailer. I've hauled a trailer like that, it fit our budget, was quite useful and I either towed it with our 22' RV or the truck I have now. It worked for our purposes. I'd be putting money in the piggy bank for repairs to a smaller, bare minimum tow vehicle, though, and expecting problems.

If the OP can get hold of a used Brenderup, she'll have less problems.

[Sansena]

EvButWings: THANK YOU for expressing my thoughts exactly.

[tangledweb]

<balance of smart ass, utterly useless remarks snipped for brevity>

OK, so again we ask "what are the rules?"

You did not like the Santa analogue? Some people are hard to please.

I'll spell out what I was trying to demonstrate. If I tell you a "rule", even if I state it really confidently, even if I mock you for doubting it, even if it sounds very sensible and believable, even if it fits your existing world view, what does it matter? I am just somebody with unknown background knowledge telling you something.

It does not matter if I am some well meaning person on the internet, some well meaning friend propping up a bar or some self interested person trying to get commission selling you a trailer or truck, you should want evidence not a confidently delivered, easy to remember rule of thumb.

Unless you can give me better evidence, I'll take what the people who designed and built the vehicle are willing to put in black and white and stand behind for warranty and legal liability as "the rules".

[Trixie]

Eh, are we really believing everything the auto makers tell us? They're not exactly known these days for their good decision making.

[tangledweb]

Eh, are we really believing everything the auto makers tell us? They're not exactly known these days for their good decision making.

If the only choices are the maker, a raving loon on the internet screeching "It only has a 119.8" wheelbase we are all going to die" and a car dealer who will get more commission if you buy a 1 ton truck, then yeah I'll go with the maker. You have a better source?

[Trixie]

I'm merely pointing out that given their apparent level of competence these days, one might feel greater comfort in erring on the side of caution, as cited in by quite a few other sources that haven't proven themselves to be a national disgrace.

[2bee]

I'd think that professional drivers would be all for getting safer vehicle/trailer combination's out on the road rather than recommending that novice haulers trust in an unspecified margin of safety from auto manufacturers. I sure as heck wouldn't count on any American auto maker's safety judgment. They've pretty much been forced kicking and screaming into everything from seat belts to non-exploding gas tanks.



Good point, doesnt really help your argument though. Youre right dangerous, liability ridden vehicles/features have been produced over the years, and they were forced to change for safety.........yet the tow ratings remain, and go UP nearly every year. Must not be as big a problem as the nervous nellies would have us believe.

[Sansena]

Good point, doesnt really help your argument though. Youre right dangerous, liability ridden vehicles/features have been produced over the years, and they were forced to change for safety.........yet the tow ratings remain, and go UP nearly every year. Must not be as big a problem as the nervous nellies would have us believe.

How IS the view there with your head in the sand, Bee?

If you think manufacturers won't change product literature for the sake of promoting sales, then I have some Chinese manufactured, lead painted, children's toys I'd like to sell you.

Do you believe *everything* you read, simply because it's on paper? Sheesh!

[tangledweb]

How IS the view there with your head in the sand, Bee?

Seriously, there has to be happy medium between the crazy old guy with his horse standing unrestrained on the back of a pickup and people like you who are too scared to tow on the highway unless you have a truck capable of towing three times your actual load? Getting hysterical about what other people do is rarely a sign of well thought out ideas.

[Sansena]

Hardly hysterical here. Just a little miffed at some folks steering noobs in the wrong direction because they believe the propogand printed by manufacturers, and disregarding common sense.

And no, my staying off the highway has less to do with my rig than it does others', and other's driving. This thread is making me think it's a sound decision.

[2bee]

How IS the view there with your head in the sand, Bee?

If you think manufacturers won't change product literature for the sake of promoting sales, then I have some Chinese manufactured, lead painted, children's toys I'd like to sell you.

Do you believe *everything* you read, simply because it's on paper? Sheesh!

And if you think the auto manufacturers could get away with falsely inflating tow rating for sales, WITHOUT regular lawsuits from people using their product at said ratings and bursting into flames, jackknifing, rolling over, etc...........then your head is stuck somewhere other than the sand.

No I don't believe everything I read on paper, nor do I believe everything I read on the web just because it is popular opinion.

[tangledweb]

Hardly hysterical here.

No, for this topic you are one of the more restrained ones. This topic has just become a running joke for me, because there are so many people who know so little, yet use so many capital letters and exclamation points to make their point.

I don't have time to go collect an all time best of list, but here are some from just this thread.

NONE. Period. Unless you want to risk your life, your horses life and the lives of others on the road.
I agree. KIDS, DO NOT ATTEMPT THIS AT HOME!
Would you jeapordize your horse's lives or your life if you are on a blind curve at highway speed and have to hit the breaks?
I WOULD NOT tow with anything that small esp LIVE weight. But go ahead, we are all full of sh*t.
lie your horse down and strap his body to the floor with at least two tiedowns.
Lemme run right out and get one then, cuz you said so!
I don't care what kind of fancy schmancy brake box you have, wires corrode, break, etc., fuses blow, brake boxes can fail for all sorts of reasons, and if you don't have enough stopping power in your truck when it happens, you are SCREWED.
People who tow with light vehicles scare me
if I ever did it again I would get at least a 2500 full size pick up.Seriously, have some perspective. Are you amazed that the human race did not die out in the 60s and 70s before everybody had a pickup or huge SUV?

[Guilherme]

I don't mind sarcasm or wit when it contains information I can use. When it's done for its own sake I figure somebody's kid has gotten access to Mom's computer.

I don't have any "heartburn" using manufactureres' recommendations on standards (fuel standards, lube standards, tire rotation standards, weight standards, etc.). But a standard derived on a test track in MI (or anywhere else) may or may not be one to be followed elsewhere.

Regarding weight standards, before I figured I could go to 100% all the time and not worry I'd want to know something about them (application of "critical thinking, don't you know ;) ). Since that information is very difficult to find I'll make a "command decision" and use less than 100% of the capacity (I find the 80% rule pretty comfortable). Could I be in error? Of course. Am I likely to get hurt (or injure my property) by following this program? Probably not.

So "get critical" and consider how much risk you want to accept. :winkgrin:

G.

[Cindyg]

This thread makes me SO grateful that I just bought a Brenderup. :)

Would anyone care to recommend a medium-sized vehicle that is especially recommended as a towing vehicle?

[Trixie]

Getting hysterical about what other people do is rarely a sign of well thought out ideas.

Keeping in mind that the general public really only remembers epic failures: i.e., an accident caused by a horse trailer, or that time a loose horse killed some poor woman, Barbaro, or whatever. As an industry, we haven't done a really good job of promoting ourselves well in the public eye. I'd rather tell someone to err on the side of caution a thousand times than assure them that they'll be fine with the bare minimums that most of us consider safe, and then read about how someone made a mistake, incorrectly set the brake controller on an overloaded small SUV, and took out a family of four. Don't kid yourself in thinking that kind of thing doesn't affect all of us.

I definitely don't understand why someone claiming to be a professional would go telling a NOVICE HAULER to squeak by with a rig that just meets the bare minimum standards - a novice is the MOST likely to make a mistake - either by driving unsafely or incorrectly hooking something up. We all have to share the road.

[Twiliath]

Misty Blue,

I have a Merhow 2H BP w/dressing room, step up. I LOVE it.

I was told years ago that Merhows never come up used. They were right; they don't. They also hold their value very well.

If you buy new, try to get running boards. I didn't think of it until I met someone who ordered theirs that way.

I prefer the way that Merhow does their butt bars - no pin to line up and slide in. It just clips in very easily.

There's a switch on the back of the trailer to turn on inside lights and there's an outside light in the back (also with the switch on the back) so you can load in the dark or back up to park in the dark.

[tangledweb]

This thread makes me SO grateful that I just bought a Brenderup. :)

Would anyone care to recommend a medium-sized vehicle that is especially recommended as a towing vehicle?

What's medium sized to you?

If you can I'd look at things that are intended to be driven off road and that people in other countries use extensively for towing eg Range Rover and Landcruiser. They will tend to have stiffer chassis and suspension.

If they are too large or expensive seriously look at the manufacturer's tow ratings. Despite some people's belief that they are derived by throwing darts at a competitor's brochure, you can tell a lot by them. Some vehicles that look superficailly the same can be very different where it matters. Some medium sized SUVs are intended as towing and offroad machines. Some are essentially minivans with big tires and more butch styling.

[Just My Style]

I have a Subaru Tribeca with a tow package and a hitch. It tows amazing. I can pull my full garbage can to the end of my driveway with out a problem. :winkgrin:

[MistyBlue]

Twiliath...thanks! The last couple times I went to the local Equine Affaire I spent a lot of time checking out the trailers. It's nice that they have all makes and models side by side in one room to compare. Considering the amount of them I was favorably impressed with the Merhows...overall they seemed like really good trailers for the money.
I'm short so I tend to get running boards on everything anyways. :winkgrin:

I have a Subaru Tribeca with a tow package and a hitch. It tows amazing. I can pull my full garbage can to the end of my driveway with out a problem. :winkgrin:

But can you STOP the garbage can? :confused: :cool:
And is yoour garbage live weight????


(wait, don't answer that last one)

[Kate66]

Kate66...not to derail the thread but how do you like your Merhow? I've checked those out before and liked what I saw for the price.

MistyBlue - nice trailer. Mine is an older one that I bought used. Actually my last one was also a Merhow that I bought used. My last one was a beauty - 2H, SL with ramp and dressing room but it weighed 3,600 empty which was quite a hard pull on the half ton truck with 2 horses up. It looked fantastic and had loads of bells and whistles, even though quite an old trailer. My current one, to be honest, looks like crap, but the floor boards are great and it pulls great. The only thing that I totally hate about it is that some idiot has either added the ramp or replaced it and the metal is so soft that if a horse actually stands on the side of the ramp, it BENDS it, so is a nightmare to shut!

[molliwog]

um....my recommendation is to trade the Pathfinder for a used F250 w/the 7.3 Liter diesel...these are a little older, but that engine is a workhorse, especially w/a new chip, gets mileage EQUIVALENT to the pathfinder, and can pull a 2-horse bumper pull safely....but that's just me......

[JSwan]

Get good insurance.

(and no, I'm not one who thinks that you need a one ton to tow a jetski.)

[bels]

Thank you so much for all your advice and a special thank you to jen4jenny who basiclly found me a brender up, told me to call immediatly, or i'd lose it and also put me on to a shipping web site that saved me $350 on have my trailer delivery ! (uship.com) wow! The chronicle forum is fantastic.
Happy thanks giving to all, from a very happy brenderup owner .

[jn4jenny]

Thank you so much for all your advice and a special thank you to jen4jenny who basiclly found me a brender up, told me to call immediatly, or i'd lose it and also put me on to a shipping web site that saved me $350 on have my trailer delivery ! (uship.com) wow! The chronicle forum is fantastic.
Happy thanks giving to all, from a very happy brenderup owner .

Yay for your used B'up, and yay for COTH Karma. I'm just passing it down the line; pwynnorman has gone out of her way to help me buy HER used Brenderup, which is on the other side of the country from me. She could have sold locally, but she's helping out a COTH'er who can't afford a B'up any other way (me), so it was only fair that I pass the good vibes on. ;)