Finding the right bit...anyone hunting with a Mikmar combo bit?

[asb_own_me]

Dilemma....more bit equals already anxious, impatient mare being made more anxious and light in front. Less bit equals less effective communication with already anxious, impatient mare. I've read about the Mikmar bits for years now, and have heard/read about a lot of success with them. Many folks report their horses as "calmer". That would be nice :winkgrin:

Has anyone tried one of their combination (original) bits? If so....what problem were you solving by trying the bit? What worked, what didn't? Looking for some input. Thanks!

[pandorasboxx]

Well, I'm only a wannabe hunter but I did use a Mikmar combo bit for a couple of seasons of endurance.

My mare in the beginning of the rides was very forward and it took quite a bit of coaxing in her french link snaffle to bring her back down to earth and focus. I switched to a Mikmar combo bit and it worked like a charm. Just a little tickle on the reins and she focused back on me and the head tossing and leaning on the bit stopped.

I generally used it for the first loop only as she become easier to rate after the first 15 miles. It isn't a harsh bit, she won't tolerate anything rough, but it did help her to focus and listen to me. Now I don't have to use it at all and ride in a hackamore.

I will probably break it out again for the next season as we've taken some time off and may need a refresher.

[Painted Wings]

A friend of mine used a mikmar combo bit on her saddlebred. Seemed to work pretty well on him.

[bigbaytb]

i have one of those original combo bits. initially used it on my 17hh ottb for cross country and stadium in eventing to get him to listen to whoa.. he's a big bold mover and would just about run over the fences since they were so low....that was 2 years ago and now I just do xc in a figure 8 and snaffle since he has learned to listen...however, i just switched him back to that bit for hunting. best decision ever i made. lets me ride on a very light rein and only need slight checks when he's eating up the ground to the horse in front of him. he doesn't grab the bit and go and is very happy to hunt in the bit.

Just my 2 cents

[asb_own_me]

What do you think it is about the bit that seems to have the calming effect on horses?

[Gestalt]

I have an ASB/Arab cross that can be really stupid out on the trail. I use a snaffle, but for about a year I rode in the Mikmar combination. It did not "calm" my horse. It did give more control. I found that his regular snaffle with a running martingale works better. He will toss up his head and try to spook. With the martingale the "toss" doesn't work.

I sold the bit to a barrel racer. This is just my opinion, but I think the bit is great if your issue is more control and not if you have a bad actor. My horse has had lots of training and can be very good and then again he can be very quirky.

[asb_own_me]

The issue I'm having with this mare is fairly specific - she is totally impatient when it comes to waiting her turn. I'm a new member this year, so I ride at the rear of first flight. She willingly jumps and crosses ANYTHING....but is having a terrible time with having to wait, especially at those logjam moments when the field comes up to a coop or crossing.

Unfortunately, her way of expressing frustration comes in the form of rearing. She is 13 years old and this has been an issue for years, in the show ring also. I agree it is totally and completely unacceptable, and I do firmly communicate that to her. I feel that her old show bit is too much bit to hunt in, and perhaps adds to her nerves/tension because it is a fairly severe bit. To try and remedy that, I've taken her out a few times now in a French link Baucher (I don't like single jointed snaffles). She goes fine in it, but it's not quite enough for my liking as far as rating her goes. I'd rather not have to half halt quite so hard to get my message across. What I liked in the literature about the combo bit was that there is the bit communication as well as the nose rope communication, and additional communication via poll pressure. So many of their customer testimonials mention the horse in question relaxing and giving more willingly to the bit - has anyone had that experience?

[JWB]

IMHO, a bit is not going to cause the problem of the anxiousness. It may help you control the results of the anxiousness but it probably won't solve the root cause.

I hunted for YEARS on a horse that would not stand. He was a gentleman as long as we were going but he would not stand quietly on a rest - he'd jig and snort. He learned a lot about leg yielding that year because whenever the field was on a rest, I'd put him on a circle or fig. 8 at a walk and ask for haunches in, shoulder in, etc to keep him preoccupied. I did this at a trot when we had to wait our turn to jump in a traffic jam. I just kept him busy all the time.

Recently I discovered red rasberry leaves. I used them on my high-strung arabian mare and found they really helped her with her patience issues. She's much calmer but she still prefers to be up front...

[asb_own_me]

IMHO, a bit is not going to cause the problem of the anxiousness. It may help you control the results of the anxiousness but it probably won't solve the root cause.

I understand this won't solve the problem, but I DO want a bit that is something between the old show bit and the french link baucher. It appeals to me that there is more than one method of communication available through the use of the Mikmar.

I hunted for YEARS on a horse that would not stand. He was a gentleman as long as we were going but he would not stand quietly on a rest - he'd jig and snort. He learned a lot about leg yielding that year because whenever the field was on a rest, I'd put him on a circle or fig. 8 at a walk and ask for haunches in, shoulder in, etc to keep him preoccupied. I did this at a trot when we had to wait our turn to jump in a traffic jam. I just kept him busy all the time.

Fantastic suggestion! I've done a little of that, but perhaps until she's more settled I should forget about demanding that she stand and instead make her work. She knows the things you mentioned above, and that would be a great way to keep her mind engaged on me and my leg rather than what's coming up and getting her jazzed.

I did discover a very odd thing this past weekend. After fighting with her about standing quietly the first two hours we were out, I discovered that she will stand quietly. Facing backwards. WTF? Any ideas on why standing backwards was fine, but facing the same direction as everyone else was impossible? She's a loon!

[promlightshine]

I have a horse like that too. He is a wonderful guy who really moves out when needed. However, on the track he broke down mentally. As part of a "PR campaign" I have brought him back to the track under saddle. He pulled his antics again until we went the opposite direction on the track. Now this wasn't a race but it did let me know what I needed to do.

When riding in the field I rode him at the end. He actually did much better knowing he had few to no horses behind him rather than at the beginning. It's almost as if there is too much pressure. I also with permission worked him into the field so that he would have some but not a lot of horses behind him.

You might need to take her down to 2nd flight for a bit and "work the crowd" .

Good luck!! ;)

[bigbaytb]

I'd rather not have to half halt quite so hard to get my message across. What I liked in the literature about the combo bit was that there is the bit communication as well as the nose rope communication, and additional communication via poll pressure. So many of their customer testimonials mention the horse in question relaxing and giving more willingly to the bit - has anyone had that experience?

I don't think it calms the horse. i know my horse doesn't get worried when i put that bit in or his regular snaffle. it doesn't matter what bit i have if my horse feels like dancing at the checks, he'll dance. (he can be an impatient tb at times) however, the bit is actually mild..the added nose pressure engages after the bit has engaged...so if they don't whoa with the bit, then the nose pressure comes in. my horse is very happy in the bit and it does not upset him. his mouth gets nice and frothy with it too. i just like the fact that i can ride at a full gallop one handed and barely whoa and he'll listen...won't happen with a waterford or snaffle, he'll just pull on those. it does offer communication since it's not a one piece or 2 piece gag..it fits my horse's mouth nicely.

[Leather]

My old horse sounds a lot like yours--would go through/over anything but lost his marbles at checks or bottlenecks and would start to rear. If we had room to circle/figure 8 that worked OK, but sometimes depending on the fixture or other riders that just wasn't possible.

He was a big strong tank of a QH so sometimes rating him could be a challenge as well.

I tried a Myler combo bit with a single rein and it actually made things worse when the field was stopped because any pressure on the reins (as in trying to circle him) would make him go up.

But when I started using two reins (one on the curb and the other on the "snaffle" ring) it worked better. When I needed to bend/circle him I used the snaffle rein and when I needed brakes I used the curb rein.

So if you tried a Mikmar I'd go with two reins. Or maybe try her in a pelham?

When trail riding I used a Myler comfort snaffle and a German martingale. I liked the German better than a running because it kept him from getting completely inverted if he got impatient, but yet it didn't impede opening up my inside rein if I needed to bend him or put him in a tight circle like a running would.

[Bogie]

IMHO, a bit is not going to cause the problem of the anxiousness. It may help you control the results of the anxiousness but it probably won't solve the root cause.

I hunted for YEARS on a horse that would not stand. He was a gentleman as long as we were going but he would not stand quietly on a rest - he'd jig and snort. He learned a lot about leg yielding that year because whenever the field was on a rest, I'd put him on a circle or fig. 8 at a walk and ask for haunches in, shoulder in, etc to keep him preoccupied. I did this at a trot when we had to wait our turn to jump in a traffic jam. I just kept him busy all the time.


I have an OTTB that also has trouble with the checks. I spoke to someone in our hunt and she advised doing some leg yields and other lateral work to help keep him focused. I ride him in a snaffle and a running martingale; more bit and he just curls up behind it. I did try a Myler combination bit early on in our relationship (similar, but not the same as a Mikmar) and I did not find that it helped. If anything, the pressure from the nose rope made him light in front and that sounds like the opposite of what you need.

I also found that by feeding him a low starch diet (I eliminated the hay stretcher in his diet) he started out calmer and stayed calmer. I was surprised that it made such a difference. A nutritionist told me that it might be making him hot . . . and sure enough it seems she was right.

[asb_own_me]

The diet advice makes sense...but she's already on a low starch diet, since she's IR. I'm afraid at this point, with this many years of rearing behind her, there's not a lot I can do. Solo endeavors from now on, I guess.

[Risk-Averse Rider]

For what it's worth, I hunted Mr. Blondie last season in a Myler combi bit.

I'm not sure it was a whopping success. We had quite a bit of bucking at the canter for the first part of the season (until I learned that he was much happier with his nose stuck up some other horse's butt--and we paired up with a horse was much happier having another horse's nose stuck up his butt :D) Of course, the fact that pretty much the ONLY time he cantered was out in the hunt field might have had SOMETHING to do with the bucking...

We started out this season with an eggbutt Myler comfort mouth snaffle and a running martingale, and he seemed okay with that, although I didn't have quite the brakes I would have liked (but I did have steering). I think the combi bit annoyed him. I had a similar experience a while back with a mullen mouth Pelham. It was a pretty heavy bit, and by the end of the hunt (only 2 - 2 1/2 hours), he would get fussy with his head. (A Sensitive Fellow, is our Mr. Blondie)

Mind you, we are generally at the back edges of a relatively small field, and we're going over pretty uneven ground, so we (Mr. Blondie & I, at least) seldom get a really good head of steam going. I expect I would have quite a different beast if we were hunting over flat/rolling ground and having to deal with large groups of horses.

And Mr. Blondie is generally quite content to stand around quietly at checks and try to sneak some snacks. So our experience probably has little bearing on your situation.

[JSwan]

My horse used to lose his mind when the field reversed. Eventually he got over it. I, however, am still in therapy. :winkgrin:


He's a strong little tank and I used a Pelham for a while, but now he goes pretty as you please in a Kimberwicke. The Uxeter gives you different settings if you want that option.

Sorry no comment on the Mikmar - never used one.

Good luck.


RAR - good to see you post again.

[Risk-Averse Rider]

RAR - good to see you post again.

Thanks! I spent the last 8 months on the web site redesign from H E double hockey sticks. Averaged 10.5 hours per day... the boys (and I) got fat & out of shape.

It's good to be back--especially now that hunting season has started again.

[Bogie]

The diet advice makes sense...but she's already on a low starch diet, since she's IR. I'm afraid at this point, with this many years of rearing behind her, there's not a lot I can do. Solo endeavors from now on, I guess.

Rearing is a tough one to deal with. My Trakehner came to me as a rearer and it took me a long time to get him over it.

Three additional suggestions: Try dropping back to the hilltoppers. My TB hunted 7-8 times this fall and I've only hilltopped him so far. He's a great jumper but I know it's going to get him all worked up. I want him to think hunting is routine before we add the excitement of jumping.

Try doing some hunter paces. you can team up with 1-2 other horses and practice leading & following. I hunterpaced mine quite a bit and it was good practice.

Try a hackamore or a bitless bridle. I know it sounds counter intuitive with a horse that is already hot, but for my trakehner, switching to a bitless solution made the most difference to his rearing. I couldn't use a Dr. Cook's because the poll pressure did made him rear, but I had a lot of success in the LG Bridle (http://www.lgbridle.com), a short shanked english hackamore (with fleece) and with a Short "S" style hackamore. He just reacted differently. I hunted him first flight with no problems, but he wasn't anxious like your horse so maybe it won't apply.

Of course, I'd try going bitless in some safer situations first :winkgrin:. My TB doesn't respond much at all to bitless . . . taking him out in the huntfield in one would be terrifying.

[asb_own_me]

I did do the gate group with her first time out and she did fine. Smaller group ;)

We went to a hunter pace (the only one around, I'm afraid) and went through the course twice, in a 5 horse group and a 3 horse group. Going in back, in the middle and even leading a few times. She is definitely happier leading, although she didn't pull any of the rearing behavior when she was in back.

If I can find a used/giveaway hackamore, I'm more than willing to try it. That's a great idea and I hadn't thought of it.

EDited to add I checked out the LG website. Ouch at $150 to try something new!

[Bogie]

You are welcome to try my english hackamore. I don't use it any more. PM me with your address and I'll send it to you.

Yes the LG is expensive (it was less when I bought it -- but actually it cost about the same as some of those fancy bits I bought that didn't work ;)). I'm not willing to part with mine yet as it's a part of Kroni that I can't yet give up. I sold my Little S. I agree that it's a lot to spend for something if you're not sure it will work.


I did do the gate group with her first time out and she did fine. Smaller group ;)

We went to a hunter pace (the only one around, I'm afraid) and went through the course twice, in a 5 horse group and a 3 horse group. Going in back, in the middle and even leading a few times. She is definitely happier leading, although she didn't pull any of the rearing behavior when she was in back.

If I can find a used/giveaway hackamore, I'm more than willing to try it. That's a great idea and I hadn't thought of it.

EDited to add I checked out the LG website. Ouch at $150 to try something new!

[asb_own_me]

You are welcome to try my english hackamore. I don't use it any more. PM me with your address and I'll send it to you.

Thank you!

[cssutton]

When I was young, I had this thing about reclaiming bad horses. As a result, I have had a lot of experience with rearing horses.

Increasing the severity of the bit only makes the horse more likely to rear. Think about it from the horse's viewpoint. He is either mad that he can't move on, or so steamed up that he has to do something, he can't just stand there, so if he can't move on, he will go up.

On a rearer, you want the least bit that will rate him.

You should use other techniques to combat the rearing. My favorite was the whirl or spin. That takes very little room and if the rider following you gives you the space courtesy requires, you will have all you need.

Also on a rearer, you must be very very careful when trying new bits. There have been several instances in recent years of riders getting hurt or killed when trying new bits on horses. I recall one that mounted the horse in a barn or indoor arena and was killed when their head hit a support beam.

Now comes the flames. If the horse must have a stronger bit, I have found the gag bit to work very well. The gag is the most maligned and most misunderstood of all bits. When used correctly and the horse is obedient, it is a mild snaffle. If the horse pulls, it pulls back.

I have used them on everything from OTTB to ordinary hunters with great success.

That said, there are some horses that get mad at any bit other than a plain snaffle so be careful when trying a new bit on a rearer.

Again, I found the whirl to work the best. A horse can not rear while spinning.

You will make some noise while spinning, so please don't ride right behind the field master or any staff member who is straining to hear hounds. He will not appreciate the noise.

Claude S. Sutton, Jr.

[asb_own_me]

Again, I found the whirl to work the best. A horse can not rear while spinning.

You've not met my mare :no: Unfortunately for me in this particular situation, she is quite agile. She can and does spin while rearing...making her brand of rearing exceptionally dangerous.

You make some excellent points regarding bits/bitting and reaction from the horse. I did hunt her in a french link baucher that I took from her dressage bridle, and she still reared. I'm game to try a gag...no flames coming from me about that suggestion! I believe every bit has a use and a place. Only as harsh as the hands, etc.

The saddest part about all this is that this is the mare I retired from showing this spring, who was depressed because she didn't have a "job" anymore. There is nothing she loves more than being outside and jumping. I wish I could just have 60 seconds where she could understand what I was saying to her...that I could explain that if she'd just not rear, she could go run and jump outside three times a week!

[cssutton]

If you spin her before she can get her front up, it probably will work.

Start with a relatively mild spin as soon as you hold up at a fence, check or whatever, before she gets mad. That should keep her mind occupied because she will be doing something other than standing and losing her temper.

Don't wait for her to start misbehaving, unless there is some clear signal she gives you well before she rears.

I would bet that this is an unusually "smart horse" (if there is such a thing) and that you have seen signs of that in other ways. Some smart horses are very hard to work with, but most get the idea if you can figure out what it takes to get them to see the light.

As I said earlier, don't ride close to any staff member, especially the second field or hilltopper field master. Both of them must do a lot of listening because they are not in constant touch with hounds, as is the 1st flight, so they must do a lot of listening to know which way to take their field. The slightest disturbance breaks their concentration and is not very good for their disposition as they do not like getting lost.

You probably know all of that, and if so forgive me, but I would rather that advice I give you not cause you embarrassment.

Claude S. Sutton, Jr.