minor saddle fitting issues - Thinline Trifecta?

[greenwave]

I'm starting my horse back into work after a long mostly-vacation and had the saddle fitter out last week as a precaution. He found the saddle to be a little narrow - enough so that it 'could be' an irritant (e.g. landing after a fence) but not so much that it was causing pain. The horse is also a little asymmetrical and the contact through the rear of the panel is not as good on the left as the right. Unfortunately, it's a foam panel so it can't be modified. I also just finished school and don't have money for a new saddle just now.

I'm taking baby steps getting this horse back into work (because he's my baby!:)) and am not planning on incorporating jumping of any kind into his schedule any time soon so would like to keep the current saddle for the time being and closely monitor him for signs of discomfort. He is currently (and has previously) exhibiting some tightness through his lower back so I had thought I would put him in a baby pad + a thinline half pad, to keep the pads as thin as possible while still offering some shock absorption. I thinking now though that the uneven contact though the back of the saddle and any sub-conscious compensation on my part may be contributing to the lower-back tightness (we do school sitting trot and full seat canter) and think maybe a thin pad with shimming capabilities would be ideal.

Has anyone tried the Thinline Trifecta? http://www.thinlineinc.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=140 Rants, raves? Would you recommend it for a horse/saddle combo that requires minimal padding and could benefit from shimming? Does anyone know of another pad or pad combo that might do the trick?

The Trifecta would be a significantly more expensive solution (total ~$170) than my previous idea of a baby plus thinline. Supposedly thinline is coming out with a version sans the sheepskin trim, maybe it will be cheaper - anyone have inside information on a release date?

[SLW]

I have a regular thinline pad and have been pleased with the protection it provides my horses. However, I saw this pad a few weeks back and it is FAR superior in terms of spreading the weight. http://www.csipads.com/englishpads.html The flex-plate is AMAZING in how it distributes pressure/weight. The western version is running just under $300.

The english version is almost ready to go public. I'm not a fan of man made materials next to the horses hair but folks swear the horses backs do not scald or get fungus. They do sell one w/ a felt backing for purist like me.

Anyway, in the spring once it gets hot I will be purchasing a western one for my daughters horse so that I can see how it works under hot conditons and still be within the 30 day trial period. If they get the english one up and running sooner I'll buy it and try it since I'm hunting two horses this winter- I'll be able to tell after a couple hunts if I like it. I really respect companies like Thinline and this group that provide that offer.

[greenwave]

SLW -
Those CSI pads are pretty impressive. I can't believe the price though! Wow!:eek: I thought we'd hit the ceiling price-wise with the Matttes and Thinline saddle fitter pads! I haven't seen a CSI pad in person but they also appear to be fairly bulky. I'll look forward to a future review from you!:)

[McVillesMom]

I really hope they come out with one without sheepskin, and soon! This is EXACTLY what I need for my jumping saddle, but I really don't want the sheepskin. Perhaps I'll email and inquire - or PM ponyjumper4...

[vxf111]

If the saddle is already too narrow, putting something under it is going to make it MORE narrow. Even if it's something thin. If your shoes are too small, does putting on socks help them fit better? Depending on the brand of saddle, you might be able to find a saddle fitter who can tweak the saddle and widen the tree a bit. That would be what I'd do, barring borrowing a different saddle. I've had saddles slightly widened and the cost wasn't too bad, somewhere between $150-250 which is not substantially more than some of the Thinline pads and might actually be a solution.

[sublimequine]

If the saddle is already too narrow, putting something under it is going to make it MORE narrow. Even if it's something thin. If your shoes are too small, does putting on socks help them fit better? Depending on the brand of saddle, you might be able to find a saddle fitter who can tweak the saddle and widen the tree a bit. That would be what I'd do, barring borrowing a different saddle. I've had saddles slightly widened and the cost wasn't too bad, somewhere between $150-250 which is not substantially more than some of the Thinline pads and might actually be a solution.

What she said. Smith Worthington widens saddles, drop them an email and ask about it. They're pretty reasonable for pricing as well. :)

[roki143]

The sans-sheepskin will be out VERY shortly! And several of the other pads are going to be shimmable also.

Maybe ponyjumper4 will chime in even more information, like dates....

[McVillesMom]

I PM'd ponyjumper4, so hopefully we'll have more info soon!

OP, after rereading your post, I have to agree with others - shimming a saddle that is too narrow will not help it fit better in the shoulder. I'm assuming that you were planning to shim the back, where the contact is uneven. Be aware that raising the back may tip the saddle forward, causing it to dig in more in front. If it's borderline now, it could cause problems later...

[McVillesMom]

Wow, that was quick! Here's the reply I received:

I'm not sure exactly when they will be available. I'm hoping by the middle to the end of December. If not, it will definitely be early January. We will have them available in black then too. We had to make some adjustments to the size of the material on the non-sheepskin trim pad, so that has slowed us down a little, but it definitely won't be much longer before they are available.

[greenwave]

Thanks to everyone for the input!

Personally, I don't find the sheepskin trim offensive but it certainly isn't necessary and must be adding to the cost.

I would love to just have the saddle adjusted (and save my money!) but don't think it can be. I asked the saddle fitter who evaluated the fit and he said that because it's foam flocked nothing can be done. I'll send an email to confirm. He also said that the saddle was not a 'bad' fit, it just isn't perfect. It's a medium tree on a horse that needs a medium. A brand or model that ran a smidge wider would be perfect.

The way I see it though I cannot address the width of this saddle I still need to put something under it and maybe I can address the panel contact discrepancy (and maybe alleviate the horse's lower back tightness?) by shimming underneath the rear of the left panel only. If I can do that with a pad that's as thin as quilted cotton -which I would use anyways-that would be great.

The Trifecta is the thinnest shimmable pad I can find but I don't really know how thin. None of my local tack shops have it. You all are right to say that any pad will make the saddle more narrow and I may make the first problem (narrowness) worse by trying to address the second (contact). Maybe I should just try it, see if it works, and stop fretting!:lol:

[greenwave]

McVM -
Did the rep mention if the model sans-trim will be any cheaper?

[sublimequine]

Thanks to everyone for the input!

Personally, I don't find the sheepskin trim offensive but it certainly isn't necessary and must be adding to the cost.

I would love to just have the saddle adjusted (and save my money!) but don't think it can be. I asked the saddle fitter who evaluated the fit and he said that because it's foam flocked nothing can be done. I'll send an email to confirm. He also said that the saddle was not a 'bad' fit, it just isn't perfect. It's a medium tree on a horse that needs a medium. A brand or model that ran a smidge wider would be perfect.

The way I see it though I cannot address the width of this saddle I still need to put something under it and maybe I can address the panel contact discrepancy (and maybe alleviate the horse's lower back tightness?) by shimming underneath the rear of the left panel only. If I can do that with a pad that's as thin as quilted cotton -which I would use anyways-that would be great.

The Trifecta is the thinnest shimmable pad I can find but I don't really know how thin. None of my local tack shops have it. You all are right to say that any pad will make the saddle more narrow and I may make the first problem (narrowness) worse by trying to address the second (contact). Maybe I should just try it, see if it works, and stop fretting!:lol:

Some saddlers can actually WIDEN the saddle, by putting the tree in a vice and widening it. Has nothing to do with the flocking. :)

From a person who has been battling too-narrow saddles for ages (my mare wears an x-wide or xx-wide, with massively broad shoulders and mutton withers ;) ), I can pretty much tell you now that adding anything in the padding department is going to make your issues worse. And as that horse gets more fit, muscles will develop over the back, and the saddle will be even more narrow.

[Ambrey]

Some saddlers can actually WIDEN the saddle, by putting the tree in a vice and widening it. Has nothing to do with the flocking. :)


It depends on the tree design- some saddle trees will not hold up to this kind of adjustment, some will.

[sublimequine]

It depends on the tree design- some saddle trees will not hold up to this kind of adjustment, some will.

Yup, hence I said to drop Smith Worthington a line and ask them. They're amazing; tell them what kind of saddle you have, the brand and model, about how old it is, and a lot of the time they can tell you sight unseen if they can work on the tree or not. :eek: :yes: :yes:

[joiedevie99]

Yup, hence I said to drop Smith Worthington a line and ask them. They're amazing; tell them what kind of saddle you have, the brand and model, about how old it is, and a lot of the time they can tell you sight unseen if they can work on the tree or not. :eek: :yes: :yes:

Someone who is good at it can also shave down the foam in most saddles. Someone I know had it done for a horse with a big shoulder- they shaved the front by the point of the shoulder and it worked wonderfully for another two years.

[sublimequine]

Someone who is good at it can also shave down the foam in most saddles. Someone I know had it done for a horse with a big shoulder- they shaved the front by the point of the shoulder and it worked wonderfully for another two years.

That I didn't know! Interesting. :yes:

Perhaps ask Smith-Worthington about that as well. It seems like they can do just about everything possible. Kinda like if it CAN be done, THEY can do it. :lol:

[greenwave]

From a person who has been battling too-narrow saddles for ages (my mare wears an x-wide or xx-wide, with massively broad shoulders and mutton withers ), I can pretty much tell you now that adding anything in the padding department is going to make your issues worse.

But would you use no pad at all? Relative to the pad I was using the last time the horse was in regular work this would be a downsize.

I'm very curious about tree widening and foam shaving suggestions that have been made. I've already sent an email to my saddle fitter and will try Smith-Worthington as well.

joiedevie99 -
Do you know who it was that did this work?

[Ambrey]

Why not just a regular ultra thinline with a baby pad underneath?

[sublimequine]

But would you use no pad at all? Relative to the pad I was using the last time the horse was in regular work this would be a downsize.

I'm very curious about tree widening and foam shaving suggestions that have been made. I've already sent an email to my saddle fitter and will try Smith-Worthington as well.

joiedevie99 -
Do you know who it was that did this work?

I'd either use a really thin cotton pad or a baby pad with nothing else, I think. When a saddle fits perfectly, the only purpose of a pad is supposed to be just to keep the saddle clean anyways, right? :)

[Posting Trot]

Did the saddlefitter determine that the saddle was too narrow based on the saddle sitting by itself on the horse or with a pad?

Usually saddlefitters look at how a saddle fits *without* any pad. If the saddle is too narrow without any pad, then any pad at all (including a baby pad) will make the problem worse.

The horse would be far better off (think no sore back, no vet bills) if you sold this saddle and bought a used, good quality, wider saddle.

If you ride with a too narrow saddle, the horse will develop a sore back, and may also lose muscle along the top line (particularly around the withers)--the opposite of what you want to achieve with work.

Good luck.

[greenwave]

Why not just a regular ultra thinline with a baby pad underneath?

I had thought of that combo but am trying to minimize bulk AND get a little better contact through the rear of the left panel if possible. The contact in the back of the saddle is uneven.


When a saddle fits perfectly, the only purpose of a pad is supposed to be just to keep the saddle clean anyways, right?

Right!:yes:

[greenwave]

Did the saddlefitter determine that the saddle was too narrow based on the saddle sitting by itself on the horse or with a pad?

Usually saddlefitters look at how a saddle fits *without* any pad. If the saddle is too narrow without any pad, then any pad at all (including a baby pad) will make the problem worse.

The horse would be far better off (think no sore back, no vet bills) if you sold this saddle and bought a used, good quality, wider saddle.

If you ride with a too narrow saddle, the horse will develop a sore back, and may also lose muscle along the top line (particularly around the withers)--the opposite of what you want to achieve with work.

Good luck.

The saddlefitter did evaluate the saddle without a pad as you say however he did not feel the fit was off enough to cause pain or injury to the horse, just enough that it 'could be' an irritant under certain circumstances, say if a bigger rider were on him or landing after a fence. I'm a fairly small person and there's no jumping in this horse's immediate future, so I think for the time being I'm just going to keep a very watchful eye on the saddle fit, his back, and his temperament and do the best I can to improve the fit where I can.

If it turns out I can't get the saddle modified like some of the other posters suggested and/or I observe negative changes I may be back looking for saddle suggestions!:)

[vxf111]

Out of curiosity, what kind of saddle is it? Most of the English made and other higher end non-French saddles can be "tweaked" in/out a small bit. I've had that done to Northrun and Jaguar saddles with excellent results. The Northrun wasn't even a wool flocked saddle. It made a huge difference. If one saddle fitter can't do it, I'd try calling another. On many brands it can be done.

[greenwave]

It's a Zaldi Star. I actually got turned on to the brand years ago by Greg Best and have really liked the saddle until this point.

[McVillesMom]

Bumping this up because the new all-cotton ones are now available! I plan on ordering one as soon as I figure out which size to get. They are $135 - less expensive than the sheepskin-trim version. Additionally, the shims are now $18 for a set (front or rear). Yay for Thinline - I can't wait to get one!

[pintopiaffe]

You can also just use double sided carpet tape to tape a shim to a regular thinline pad.

FWIW.

I can't believe folks pay that much for the 'look' of sheepskin. I pay for sheepskin--for the cush, grip and heat dispersion--and I still don't want the rear rolls. Sheepskin next to horse, square pad over to keep saddle clean. :sigh: